Making a will: DIY or hire a lawyer?

[Hyacinth]

We need to create a will, mostly to appoint guardianship and trustees for any equity in the house and small savings accounts.

 

We met with a lawyer tonight who was very nice, seemingly capable and, well, pricey.

 

I'm wondering if one of those online services might serve our purposes just as well without the hefty price tag.

 

Any thoughts, Hive?

[Jaz]

I'd check your state laws. Ours accepts handwritten wills so we felt comfortable with an online package from Dave Ramsey and had friends witness it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Jaz

[Seasider]

This is some of the most important business you will ever conduct. Don't scrimp. Save money by doing most of the drafting and prep work yourself, but invest in documents that will be powerful and withstand any challenge that might be thrown against them.

 

It may just be based on my personal experience, but I feel pretty strongly about this.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Seasider

[StephanieZ]

Personally, I'd get a lawyer.

 

But, it does sound like your estate would be pretty simple, so maybe a DIY package would be OK. 

 

Unless you expect/worry about someone contesting your wishes re: guardianship, then I'd probably feel pretty safe using a DIY package online (nolo press or similar). Do get your signatures notarized at least, though.

 

Be sure to include Health Proxy / Medical POA forms for you and your husband, too. 

[gardenmom5]

we hired a very good estate firm to draw up a trust.  in which we placed bank accounts, home, etc.  it also covers guardianship for minor children, and how money is distributed. it covers stuff a will does not.

[MomatHWTK]

We hired someone. 

[LucyStoner]

At 23 with one child and a very simple estate we did the DIY with software. We updated it once. At 36 with two children and a couple of more complexities, we are planning to hire someone next year.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

Hire a lawyer, your will is a very important document. Even a small error can cause difficulties after you are gone.

[Pawz4me]

If it's at all feasible I would hire a lawyer. Even with what seems to be a simple estate. He or she will likely bring up things that would never occur to you that you even need to consider.

[Lanny]

Hire a lawyer who specializes in Family Law. Both spouses need to have a Will. Read the drafts, correct them, and read the draft again. Do not permit anything ambiguous. Get it as perfect as is possible, before you approve the Final Draft and sign the Wills.  Excellent that you are doing that.  

[Lanny]

I am not an Attorney.  I believe that your Attorney will need to prepare more than one document for you and your DH. Your Pets are Property and should be taken care of in your Wills.  Your Minor Children are not Property. You will need another document to take care of them. The documents you need will be written in accordance with the laws of the state you currently live in. If in the future you move to another state, you need to write new   Wills there, and new documents to take care of your Minor Children. This is extremely important and it is good that you are going to do this. I use an Online service to prepare my U.S. Income Tax return, but there IS NO WAY  I would consider writing a Will via an Online service or DIY book, etc.  

[creekland]

We're DIY folks, but we also don't expect any issues in our family - no fights, etc.  We wouldn't actually need a will but the state gets more of our estate afterward if we don't have one.

[SparklyUnicorn]

lawyers are blood sucking leaches

 

LOL

 

Sorry.  Not what you asked, but yeah there you have it.  My grandmother had a lawyer for her will/estate, etc.  So my dad got a call a couple of weeks ago that he has some money coming to him from her.  She died oh gee 20 years ago.  The money went to my mother and she passed away so my dad is next in line.  Ok fine and dandy.  Whatever.  So when all was said and done the lawyer took out his fee from this money.  He's already been paid for services 10 times over, but he's still taking out fees 20 years later.  Guess what he took from the small sum?   30%  Thirty percent to make one phone call to my dad about money.

 

 

[gstharr]

We're DIY folks, but we also don't expect any issues in our family - no fights, etc.  We wouldn't actually need a will but the state gets more of our estate afterward if we don't have one.

If there is something worth fighting over, odds are there will be a fight. Seen too many families battles because of this belief.

[Ravin]

I would probably use a kit, but I'm a lawyer myself (not an estates attorney, I learned about enough to pass the bar exam, didn't even take classes on the particular topic in law school) and have at least half a clue, and know where to look for answers if I don't. If DH and I disagreed about anything in our wills, I would probably suggest an outside consult with an attorney who specializes in this area.

 

This reminds me that we don't have wills. We don't really have a need for a will at this point unless we both die at the same time, though, since we're in a community property state and don't own any significant separate property. We still should probably do something about that.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I would probably use a kit, but I'm a lawyer myself (not an estates attorney, I learned about enough to pass the bar exam, didn't even take classes on the particular topic in law school) and have at least half a clue, and know where to look for answers if I don't. If DH and I disagreed about anything in our wills, I would probably suggest an outside consult with an attorney who specializes in this area.

 

This reminds me that we don't have wills. We don't really have a need for a will at this point unless we both die at the same time, though, since we're in a community property state and don't own any significant separate property. We still should probably do something about that.

 

haha...forgive me for calling lawyers blood sucking leaches

 

:laugh:

[creekland]

If there is something worth fighting over, odds are there will be a fight. Seen too many families battles because of this belief.

 

We've already spelled things out for our kids - in person.  It's pretty simple.  We've always been a close family, so I'd give very high odds that there won't be problems.  We're not very materialistic, so there aren't any valuables they'll be fighting over.  They expect to live in different areas around our planet (one has already settled elsewhere), so they won't be fighting over the homeplace.

 

Some families fight naturally.  Some don't.  Ours doesn't.  My dad has a lawyer-made will that he spent way too much money on.  It really doesn't matter except to keep more from the state.  My sister and I (only siblings) know we'll work it out when we have to.  Right now she's written out of the will due to dad's mental state of mind. Reality will be a bit different, :lol: but dad doesn't need to know/worry about that.  When/if things change and I'm written out of his will (things cycle like that), I won't care if I get anything or not TBH.

 

That type of thinking is one that prevails in our family.  If they want to use our will, fine.  Enough is spelled out.  If not, it's a formality and they can do what they think is best.  

 

My mom has a will (I'm executor) and has told me to do whatever I want.  She doesn't care about the specifics, but she also knows (correctly) that I won't leave anyone out.

 

The same happened when my grandparents passed away.  They had two and six siblings respectively.  No fights.  No hard feelings.

 

We don't need to pay anyone.  In families where fighting is common or underlying, I can see where it would be different.

[regentrude]

We did ours ourselves, using will make software. Our affairs are very simple: we are married to one another, have two biological children, no blended family issues, no businesses, no people who will sue over guardianship, no large estate. In our state, we can do this ourselves, and if it is notarized, it will avoid probate.

In case only one of us dies, it is extremely simple; the surviving spouse inherits. If we both die, our two children inherit to equal parts.

We appointed a guardian for minor children and a custodian to manage the finances for any child under 21.

Edited December 9, 2016 by regentrude

[historically accurate]

We hired a lawyer. We don't have a whole lot, but DH has a sibling who can be a bit of a butt (and we chose my side for the guardianship of our children), and we wanted to make sure there was no question.

 

DH's parents have complicated trusts in order to deal with said butt of a sibling. My parents also had a lawyer do theirs when my sibling and I were young but that was because we were to be raised in a "committee" sort of way. Physical guardianship went to one couple; monetary went to a group of people. 

[Happy]

We're DIY folks, but we also don't expect any issues in our family - no fights, etc.  We wouldn't actually need a will but the state gets more of our estate afterward if we don't have one.

When my last remaining parent died, I assumed my brother and I would go on as we had in the past--getting along, working together, being friends as well as siblings.

 

Boy, was I wrong. Completely destroyed my relationship with him. It got beyond ugly. I felt I'd been crushed by a steam roller.

 

A detailed will helps.

If possible, gather the main people who would be impacted by your will and go over the document with them now while you still walk the earth.

[livetoread]

My husband is an attorney, but not an estate attorney, so we hired one. My husband did a couple of updates to it as things changed, but we hired one for the initial set of documents. We are pretty careful with our money and are big fans of do-it-yourself when it's possible, but he was adamant that hiring this out is money well-spent. I trust his judgement.

 

Editing to add that things are pretty simple for us too.

Edited December 9, 2016 by livetoread

[gardenmom5]

When my last remaining parent died, I assumed my brother and I would go on as we had in the past--getting along, working together, being friends as well as siblings.

 

Boy, was I wrong. Completely destroyed my relationship with him. It got beyond ugly. I felt I'd been crushed by a steam roller.

 

A detailed will helps.

If possible, gather the main people who would be impacted by your will and go over the document with them now while you still walk the earth.

 

I'm so sorry.  btdt.

a detailed will SAVES future hassle and grief.  as we were setting things up for my mom, there were things she didn't want to do because she didn't want to make one of my siblings angry.  hello mom.  ***I*** will be here and having to deal with them.  (you'll be dead, and we'll know who they really are.) 

 

my brother got the legal aid dept at the local military base to send us threatening letters.   (eventually, they were just insulting.)  I probably should have contacted the aid's CO. the guy was an idiot.  no critical thinking skills at all.

  the trust was solid, so no attorney would actually take his case because they knew he would lose.  (he was in the midst of a very nasty divorce.)  and, he couldn't pay up front.  despite the estate being equally divided between him, me and our sister.  he wanted more, because, he deserved it.

death brings out who people *really* are. . . .

 

eta: if we'd done what my mom wanted, there would have been holes that could have been exploited, and it would have been even more grief.

iow: you want a rock solid document - because death really does bring out the worst in some people, and you learn who they are.  I expected my sister to have gone off the deep end (she did when our grandmother died.)  I thought my brother would have been more reasonable - instead he was even worse than she was.

Edited December 9, 2016 by gardenmom5

[gardenmom5]

the other thing - stipulate within the will/trust what percentage fee there will be for the executor.  do NOT underestimate the amount of work they will do.  and when they have to put up with such reprehensible behavior from beneficiaries, for free - that's really asking a lot.

[madteaparty]

I'm a lawyer and I'm using a lawyer ;) though once I was terrified before I left for a solo trip and threw a will together and called colleagues into my office to witness it before I left for the airport. They thought me insane, but not for the first or last time.

Anyway I have specific ideas as to what I want done with it, most notably, no trust.

Edited December 9, 2016 by madteaparty

[madteaparty]

We hired a lawyer. We don't have a whole lot, but DH has a sibling who can be a bit of a butt (and we chose my side for the guardianship of our children), and we wanted to make sure there was no question.

 

DH's parents have complicated trusts in order to deal with said butt of a sibling. My parents also had a lawyer do theirs when my sibling and I were young but that was because we were to be raised in a "committee" sort of way. Physical guardianship went to one couple; monetary went to a group of people.

Guardianship is the most important thing here too; I think I would return from the dead if a set of relatives received my kids and so I want that specified there.(not the death defiance ;) the other stuff)

IMO (not an estates attorney) if things can skip the probate process the better. So, if you have cash you want to go to a person, maybe fill out a "transfer on death" form for that account. life insurance also goes directly to beneficiary, and so on. 401k can too if you designate one if I recall, but some of this is state specific, so yeah hire an attorney.

Edited December 9, 2016 by madteaparty

[gardenmom5]

Hire a lawyer who specializes in Family Law. Both spouses need to have a Will. Read the drafts, correct them, and read the draft again. Do not permit anything ambiguous. Get it as perfect as is possible, before you approve the Final Draft and sign the Wills.  Excellent that you are doing that.  

 

in the US, family law is about living family members.

for a will/trust you want an estate attorney.

 

If there is something worth fighting over, odds are there will be a fight. Seen too many families battles because of this belief.

 

it doesn't take much for someone to fight over something either.   some people will go to court over minuscule amounts.

I've known people where everyone in the family agreed.

and I've personally been where people were screaming they'd been cheated because they  should have it all. (or at least most.)

[OneStepAtATime]

FWIW, even when families get along beautifully, there can be complications after someone has passed.  I have settled many times many estates in my family.  With the exception of one, they were not contentious at all but several ended up being far more complicated than needed.  Wills are for the living to be able to settle your estate smoothly and hopefully without a ton of outflow of money to lawyers/the state/etc.  

 

In my own family, most had wills but frequently they did them themselves or they failed to communicate effectively with their lawyers or they failed to be specific and clear enough on key points.  Having a will makes life easier for those that will have to deal with your estate once you are gone, but having a well written will is even better.  Otherwise complicated situations can arise even if there is no contention in the family and not a lot of property involved, especially if there are underage children.  

 

Personally, if you are involving children, I think it is critical to get the documents done professionally.  However, hiring a lawyer IS expensive.  I would suggest that you do research, write up what you want, make it clear and pretty detailed, then go to a lawyer for the actual official documents to be written up.  Go over them with a fine tooth comb yourself, make clear anything that you feel is not clear, do not assume everything will work out in the end because so and so said such and such, then finalize the documents.  

 

I would also strongly suggest that if you or your spouse has anything that you very much want your children to have after your passing, PLEASE put a detailed description and even a photograph if you can into the will.  For example, my great grandmother's wedding ring belongs to me.  I want my daughter to have it when she gets married or at some point in her adult years (she may choose not to get married) but at the moment it remains with me.  If I were to pass on tomorrow and I had not specified that ring goes to DD in my will, even if my DH knows my wishes he might decide to wait to give her the ring until she is older, since that was the original plan.  In the meantime, lets say he gets married again.  New wife really takes a shine to that ring.  DH decides to give the ring to new wife.  Ring was never mentioned in the will.  DD has no legal recourse for getting the ring.  Right now I might be thinking "DH knows my wishes.  He would never give away my great grandmother's ring to a new wife.  He loves DD and he loves me.  He will give it to DD. Why put it in a will?"  But I won't be here to ensure that that happens.  And people change their priorities and views.  Things change.  I have seen it over and over.  I want to make sure legally that that ring goes to DD.  

 

In other words, just because you say, for example, that you want the kids to get Aunt Suzie's Victrola, if it is never written down there is NO guarantee that the kids will get Aunt Suzie's Victrola.  This is especially true if both spouses die at the same time or within a short time of each other.  Items that may mean a great deal to the kids at some point might be sold off to pay estate taxes or to clear things out since the kids are now having to go live with someone else.  Without things being specifically listed, anything could happen to those items.

[JFSinIL]

I'd err on the side of doing as much prep as you can, but having a lawyer sit down with you to finish everything and make sure it is all correctly done. You won't be around to answer any questions once the will needs to be "active". Better to have it all done correctly while you can explain what you want done, than risk it costing your kids a lot more to get things untangled or taken care of later.

 

PS hubby does wills, trusts, etc. as part of his small family law practice he took over from his dad. So if you are in Chicagoland I know a good lawyer ;-)....

Edited December 9, 2016 by JFSinIL

[OneStepAtATime]

Agree with the above.

 

And yes, things like guardianship need to be very precise.  Also, think about whether you want the person who may be raising your kids to also have control of anything the kids would get from your estate, especially the money.

 

For example:  My dad had a good friend growing up that was left in charge of another friend's 3 sons AND their inheritance after the parents unexpectedly passed away.  The boys were close with the man.  Their father and the other man had been best friends.  The boys were well cared for and had a certain amount each month that could be spent from their parents' estate.  When the eldest boy was an adult but not yet supposed to get the bulk of his inheritance (not until 25) he and his brothers begged, pleaded and tried to guilt the man into letting them have the rest of the money early so they could invest it themselves.  Initially he refused.  The relationship became somewhat contentious and it was hard on all parties.  He eventually allowed them to have the money even though the will was very specific.   The boys made poor investment choices and lost their inheritance.  When the eldest hit 25, he and his brothers sued the man and won.  The man was not supposed to have turned the money over early.  It broke the man emotionally and financially and permanently damaged their relationship.  

Edited December 9, 2016 by OneStepAtATime

[regentrude]

And yes, things like guardianship need to be very precise.  Also, think about whether you want the person who may be raising your kids to also have control of anything the kids would get from your estate, especially the money.

 

It is always prudent to separate guardianship of children from control over the finances - to protect both parties.

[OneStepAtATime]

It is always prudent to separate guardianship of children from control over the finances - to protect both parties.

:iagree:

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

We are still navigating my Grandmothers estate and now my dads. It's more complicated than it should be.

[Code Lyoko]

I know a lot of people feel that since they don't have a lot of stuff, or their families get along really well, or they don't really care what happens to their stuff after they die, that a will isn't really necessary.  Even if someone chooses to get a will, they may just slap something together on the fly.

 

 The thing is, though, there doesn't have to be any contention or a lot of money/property involved, for things to get very complex very quickly.  A well written will can help prevent the person trying to settle the estate from spending countless hours over months or even years trying to straighten out issues that could so easily have been dealt with if a few specific words had been included in the will (or actually having a will in the first place, which many people don't).  The will has many functions but one is to make things smoother and less troublesome for the person settling the estate, not just to prevent contentious relationships from getting out of hand once someone passes, but to make the process smoother and make certain there are no legal or financial snafus.  There doesn't have to be any contention at all for issues to arise.  And the will also hopefully keeps the IRS and lawyers from walking away with the bulk of whatever you own.

 

I don't want whoever ends up dealing with my estate to be stuck trying to clean up my mess because I failed to take care of things while I was still alive.

 

That being said, there are many instances where people really don't need a lawyer, the estate settlement goes glass smooth, and there are no issues to deal with.  Since I don't have a crystal ball, I would rather air on the side of caution, especially since I have kids involved.

[G5052]

I've been the executor of multiple estates now. The latest has been so "colorful" that I could write a book about it. One of the professionals involved has already told me that one of "adventurous" experiences we've had is going into her book that she's writing, with the names and locations changed of course.

 

You can't IMAGINE the headaches your heirs will have if you don't do things properly. It's bad enough as it is. There's nearly always some drama, but if you don't take care of that or pick the wrong people to be in charge, it could be really, really ugly. I'm the beneficiary of one that was just bank accounts and has been open for over five years, and I doubt that it will ever settle as the family members originally intended. Simple will, but they totally picked the wrong person to handle it. 

 

If you absolutely don't have the $$$, at least do one of the online ones.

 

If you can stretch at all financially, get it done properly with a lawyer. 

[G5052]

haha...forgive me for calling lawyers blood sucking leaches

 

:laugh:

 

With the estates I've been involved with, all but one was excellent. The one that was horrid actually had cancer and died in the middle of it all. We didn't know he was sick because it was long-distance, and then we got a letter from the court that he had died with the name of a lawyer who was offering to take over. We investigated that lawyer and ended up with someone else who got the job done.

[gardenmom5]

Agree with the above.

 

And yes, things like guardianship need to be very precise.  Also, think about whether you want the person who may be raising your kids to also have control of anything the kids would get from your estate, especially the money.

 

For example:  My dad had a good friend growing up that was left in charge of another friend's 3 sons AND their inheritance after the parents unexpectedly passed away.  The boys were close with the man.  Their father and the other man had been best friends.  The boys were well cared for and had a certain amount each month that could be spent from their parents' estate.  When the eldest boy was an adult but not yet supposed to get the bulk of his inheritance (not until 25) he and his brothers begged, pleaded and tried to guilt the man into letting them have the rest of the money early so they could invest it themselves.  Initially he refused.  The relationship became somewhat contentious and it was hard on all parties.  He eventually allowed them to have the money even though the will was very specific.   The boys made poor investment choices and lost their inheritance.  When the eldest hit 25, he and his brothers sued the man and won.  The man was not supposed to have turned the money over early.  It broke the man emotionally and financially and permanently damaged their relationship.  

 

 

this.   we split control for dudeling.  1  has custody, 2  has fiscal control.  

 

thing which are permissible to you to take out from their inheritance should also be specified. 

e.g. college, down-payment on a  house (not likely before 25 - but a nephew did.  he also got married and had his first child while he was in college.)

 

I don't remember the exact wording our attorney used - but things can be written so if a child marries a . . .say a - money grubber .. . the inheritance you leave that child can be protected from them.

 

and for the specificity - jane austin fans can remember in sense and sensibility - the father dies, leaves the estate to the son (as the law dictated) and non-specific instructions to the son to "care for his step-mother and her daughters".  and the son's wife . . . wants. it. all.  and soon, the step-mother and daughters have nothing.

[FaithManor]

Ours is a very simple estate and only one minor child so legal zoom online will plus proper witnesses and notarization works. Our kids get it all shared equally with ds who is almost 17 going to a friend who will finish homeschooling him for us.

 

If I had anything at all complicated or children who might fight, family members who might get snarkh, I would hire a estate planning attorney.

[Luckymama]

There are things in life that are worth hiring a professional to handle. This is one of them, for us at least.

[OneStepAtATime]

This article from AARP might help you decide how to proceed and what to include, OP... It is really pretty informative for an overview.

 

http://www.aarp.org/money/estate-planning/info-09-2010/ten_things_you_should_know_about_writing_a_will.html