Need advice about finances

[Trivium Academy]

I'm not bashing dh but I'm worried about our finances. I manage them but ever since we've moved back to a more populated area, our finances have been a struggle. For 4 months now we've been broke by the 1st or 2nd week of the month (down to $100 or less in all our accounts combined) and the only thing that keeps us going is dd's child support payments.

 

Dh's not worried, I've presented budget after budget to him and yet he has no interest or care about it. I'm sick over this and I'm burned out over the stress. He is an emotional spender, as soon as we get paid it's like he's hit the lottery-'let's eat out...I'm going to buy this...I need this..." Our savings is a joke, we have nothing for saved for Christmas b/c it keeps getting emptied out each month to survive.

 

I've talked to him, I've done everything I can and is the only thing left to do is hand over our finances to him and wash my hands of it? He doesn't want me to get a job, because it would be inconvenient for him with the kids. I told him I'd get a night job. The problem is, the sore point of our finances is that he ignores whatever proposed budget I set forth, each month for the last 4 months more has gone to eating out and entertainment than we can afford. A part of me despises the fact that I would get a job on top of homeschooling each day just to support his "fun" spending.

 

I feel like I'm at his mercy, that any idea of a healthy savings or any financial security is all dependent on him, I'm completely and utterly sick about it. I've trimmed all that I can on my end, cut my spending even small things as much as I can.

 

Is the only course of action handing over the finances to him and letting the chips fall where they may? I need to reread Boundaries on this issue, from what I remember I need to have him own his own irresponsibility.

 

Any thoughts or advice as to what to do? I feel so alone in this.

 

Admin...I understand if you decide to delete this post due to the nature of it. If I've overstepped, I'm sorry.

[Moxie]

Have you said all of this to you DH, just like you've said it here? I would say the words, "I'm starting to have negative feelings toward you due to your spending and unwillingness to be the other adult in this family". If that doesn't work, you need to have a long talk about immaturity. I wouldn't hand over the finances to him but I would require that he participate in making the budget.

[Nestof3]

Do you have elders or other spiritual leaders at your church with whom you can speak? Handling household affairs in a mature mindset is critical before attempting to lead the household of God's affairs. Please take that as gently as you can. It is biblical. I think it would be beneficial for the two of you to meet with someone else in the elder capacity. I'm saying this based on other information you have shared as well.

[Trivium Academy]

Yes, Melissa I've said it all to him- including the offer of getting a job (without how I would feel being said). Dawn, although it might be the "right" action to do, I would never put his job in jeopardy in anyway or want to cause any room for disrespect or lack of confidence between him and the parishioners. That is a major pastor wife no-no.

[6packofun]

I agree with what the other ladies have said about getting counsel! Not only that, but I don't believe that it falls under the godly wife duty to go out to eat WITH your dh if he is making poor choices that affect the family's well-being and financial health. He doesn't want you to get a job and he wants to continue spending foolishly, so let him see what a Christmas without gifts for the children is like. I'm serious. Do not go into debt for Christmas--the kids will be OK.

 

He needs a wake-up call and he's a grown-up who can handle the results of his actions. You can only "save" him from himself for so long, right? I know it sucks, but I'd go to a pastor or elder at church and ask for guidance and either take their advice or let the chips fall where they may for a while. Keep record like you've been doing and when he wonders what in the world is happening, show him.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Throwing ideas at you to see if one or more of them will "stick"! I will admit that these ideas are more on the sneaky side because you don't want to nag and right now getting him to see your side isn't working. I recognize that getting him to own the problem etc. is healthiest but sometimes you have to go through the backdoor.

 

* Instead of eating out for a good time, invite some friends over to your house for dinner/video. It will feel like you are going out but will actually be cheaper. (Don't tell dh why you're doing this - he'll just psychologically feel like you've saved some so he has more to splurge).

 

* Does he look at the balance before he spends? Can you "hide" money by writing a fake check on Quicken to savings?(This is what I do - only label it Christmas or something like that). Having a hidden safety net like that has been the biggest stress-buster for me money wise. Then for those months where our spending exceeds our budget (like when the insurance is due etc.) I can go in the red a little bit until the next paycheck.

 

* Can you ask him to cut down on just one discretionary expense? Like maybe getting DVDs/CDs etc. from the library. (I know you're cutting costs so you may be already doing something like this.)

[laylamcb]

Jessica, it sounds like you need a third party involved. (This isn't a slight to you or to your DH; money is often a very tough thing for men and women to talk about and see eye to eye on. And I think that, for right or wrong, many men see women as overly emotional about money, and they therefore discount their wives' arguments about how "dire" the family's financial situation might be.)

 

How would your DH react if you suggested a financial advisor? I think that Dawn makes a good point about the elders' involvement, but...isn't your DH the pastor of your church? Seems like that would make bringing them in much more difficult and touchy.

 

I'd urge you to talk to him about the two of you consulting an advisor. And here's a :grouphug: for you, because now more than ever, money is a stressor.

[Moxie]

Yes, Melissa I've said it all to him- including the offer of getting a job (without how I would feel being said).

 

I would include it. Your DH MUST know that this is changing your respect for him. I really would let him know how much stress it causes you. You getting a job won't help anything, he'll just see that as more money to spend.

[klmama]

Have you taken a look at Crown Financial Ministries? They might be able to help you. http://www.crown.org/ They have many materials, and they may have someone in your area that could sit down with you to help your dh understand.

 

ETA: They also have free online counseling via chat, if you don't think your dh will go for in person help. Maybe they can give you some ideas.

Edited October 10, 2008 by klmama

[Renee in NC]

Its been my experience that none of this will change a man's behavior. I have tried it all and even "let things fall where they will." It was horrible.

 

It's TONS better now, but not because of anything I did or didn't do. He just decided to grow up (sort of.) He still doesn't spend money the way I would, but I have finally realized that I can't do anything about it.

 

Some men never grow out of it, no matter what happens. My father is this way and my only goal in life is to never be like him when it comes to finances.

[Guest janainaz]

No, no and no! My dh did this for a long time and I took over and put the pants on. I control the money and I make a big stink if we are spending beyond our means, I'm a vicious, wicked snake that is a force to be reckoned with. I don't care what marriage books A or B say, the more responsible one needs to take control. I won't join him in his eating out and entertainment he'll have to do alone. He ran up his cell phone bill - I can not tell you how many times and I got so mad one night as I was doing bills with a sharpie marker, that I wrote all over his forehead. I was livid, to say the least. It was quite a night of laughter, but I really was burned up. I finally let it get shut off and he no cell phone for over a year. I still don't have one. I put him on Cricket and we pay $50 a month and it's unlimited. It's impossible for him to make that mistake again. Month after month I would pay off this HUGE bill and I kept telling him, "you need to watch your minutes, it is YOUR responsibility". He kept doing it, over and over and over. I won't tolerate it.

My dh is no whimp, he's a great guy, but I am not going to suffer, nor are my kids, for his poor spending choices. I used to be the one that was irresponsible and then it shifted. Years ago, it was so tight that he gave up. We just could not win and we were at the mercy of the bank constantly - begging for our money back from overdrafts. This is when I stepped in.

 

Over a year ago we went from an apartment to a rental house. While at the rental house with higher payments and bills, we were suffocating. It was not worth it to me to live that close to the edge. I told dh that we needed to go BACK to an apartment and he agreed. We made plans to move back and somehow along the way, we were able to buy a house. We had literally given up and ............ our credit was a joke. We did buy a house that we could afford, but we are on the edge due to other circumstances - my dh changing jobs this year and making less money. We have one car now and no health insurance for the first time. (Of course, even with health insurance we STILL had huge bills and we had great coverage by most standards). It is not easy living on one income and waking up at night with your heart palpitating every time you look into your account. It is difficult when you are doing your best to be wise and you feel like every force is working against you - even including your dh at times! :(

 

Jessica, I have a friend who gave her dh full control. She was doing what she felt was right biblically. Her dh ruined them and she is also to blame because she sat back and did not use the voice God gave her. Now they are separated and much of the reason is over money. She grew so frustrated with him and yet she remained passive. She thought his choices would catch up and teach him. She thought sitting back and letting consequence deal with it would work. It didn't. Her husband was this way in many ways, not just this area. But, it did her no favors and it did her kids no favors.

 

Our husbands need us in this way, we have wisdom and discernment and although they seem not listen sometimes, they do more than you think. You are still obligated to voice your opinion on what he is doing. Laying it out for him to see is the right thing to do. My dh did not and STILL does not want to talk about finances. It stresses him out. I would MAKE him stand with me and look at the spreadsheet so that he could see with his own eyes that we only have $20.00 until Friday and if you spend over - we are going to have to deal with the bank and I let him know he was going to have to deal with me. I make it painful for him.

 

My mom made awful decisions when I was a kid and I suffered for it. I won't allow my kids to suffer in this way.

 

Just my two cents. I know your frustration.

[laylamcb]

Its been my experience that none of this will change a man's behavior. I have tried it all and even "let things fall where they will." It was horrible.

 

It's TONS better now, but not because of anything I did or didn't do. He just decided to grow up (sort of.) He still doesn't spend money the way I would, but I have finally realized that I can't do anything about it.

 

Some men never grow out of it, no matter what happens. My father is this way and my only goal in life is to never be like him when it comes to finances.

 

For the most part, :iagree: with this. This is why I suggest a professional third party. And although there are wonderful organizations out there on the web from which you can collect all kinds of great materials, I really think that that information coming out of your mouth is unlikely to change your DH's perspective on money. This is something he needs to hear from a professional--and preferably from a man. (There I said it: the unvarnished truth as I see it, unpopular as it may be.)

 

Just my $.02! :001_smile:

[Stacy in NJ]

You need to do the opposite from what you're suggesting. You need to take over complete control of your finances. Your dh need to surrender his monthly/weekly check to you, and you need to give him an allowance.

 

Easier said than done? Work on it, slowly but surely. Handing over finances to him is being passive-aggressive. You know he'll fail and then you can say, "I told you so." That's no way to strengthen a relationship.

 

I married young and I've been married for 17 years. One thing I've learned is that sometimes *I* need to make the decisions and my dh needs to follow. In this aspect of your marriage you are more competent than your spouse. That's just your reality and you need to deal with it. That means figuring out a plan to convince your dh of your competence and not feeling guilty about it. Be subtle, be loving but keep at it.

Edited October 10, 2008 by Stacy in NJ
sp

[Nestof3]

Dawn, although it might be the "right" action to do, I would never put his job in jeopardy in anyway or want to cause any room for disrespect or lack of confidence between him and the parishioners. That is a major pastor wife no-no.

 

Jessica,

 

I just wanted to make sure you understood where I was coming from biblically. I hope you can hear my heart.

 

I was just thinking of 1 Timothy Chapter 3. I just see the position of elder to be a very serious thing -- more than a job, and there is a high level of accountability that is built into biblical spiritual leadership.

 

 

(bishop = overseer/elder)

 

1Ti 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

 

1Ti 3:3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;

 

1Ti 3:4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;

 

1Ti 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

 

1Ti 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

 

1Ti 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

 

 

But, I also understand your need to be the quiet wife. It is hard sometimes to be both a wife and a member of the body of Christ. :grouphug:

Edited October 10, 2008 by nestof3
spacing

[Melinda in VT]

I'm not bashing dh but I'm worried about our finances. I manage them but ever since we've moved back to a more populated area, our finances have been a struggle. For 4 months now we've been broke by the 1st or 2nd week of the month (down to $100 or less in all our accounts combined) and the only thing that keeps us going is dd's child support payments.

 

Dh's not worried, I've presented budget after budget to him and yet he has no interest or care about it. I'm sick over this and I'm burned out over the stress. He is an emotional spender, as soon as we get paid it's like he's hit the lottery-'let's eat out...I'm going to buy this...I need this..." Our savings is a joke, we have nothing for saved for Christmas b/c it keeps getting emptied out each month to survive.

 

I've talked to him, I've done everything I can and is the only thing left to do is hand over our finances to him and wash my hands of it? He doesn't want me to get a job, because it would be inconvenient for him with the kids. I told him I'd get a night job. The problem is, the sore point of our finances is that he ignores whatever proposed budget I set forth, each month for the last 4 months more has gone to eating out and entertainment than we can afford. A part of me despises the fact that I would get a job on top of homeschooling each day just to support his "fun" spending.

 

I feel like I'm at his mercy, that any idea of a healthy savings or any financial security is all dependent on him, I'm completely and utterly sick about it. I've trimmed all that I can on my end, cut my spending even small things as much as I can.

 

Is the only course of action handing over the finances to him and letting the chips fall where they may? I need to reread Boundaries on this issue, from what I remember I need to have him own his own irresponsibility.

 

Any thoughts or advice as to what to do? I feel so alone in this.

 

Admin...I understand if you decide to delete this post due to the nature of it. If I've overstepped, I'm sorry.

 

:grouphug:

 

I don't handle financial stress well. And I don't think you can really make an adult change against his or her will.

 

So, to be honest, in your position I would probably get a job. And, I would get a separate checking account (in my name only) in which to deposit my paychecks and child support checks.

[Starr]

Sometimes it's a drag being the Pastor's wife. There is no place to turn. I'm sorry. I understand.

[wagnfun]

No, no and no! My dh did this for a long time and I took over and put the pants on. I control the money and I make a big stink if we are spending beyond our means, I'm a vicious, wicked snake that is a force to be reckoned with. I don't care what marriage books A or B say, the more responsible one needs to take control. I won't join him in his eating out and entertainment he'll have to do alone. He ran up his cell phone bill - I can not tell you how many times and I got so mad one night as I was doing bills with a sharpie marker, that I wrote all over his forehead. I was livid, to say the least. It was quite a night of laughter, but I really was burned up. I finally let it get shut off and he no cell phone for over a year. I still don't have one. I put him on Cricket and we pay $50 a month and it's unlimited. It's impossible for him to make that mistake again. Month after month I would pay off this HUGE bill and I kept telling him, "you need to watch your minutes, it is YOUR responsibility". He kept doing it, over and over and over. I won't tolerate it.

My dh is no whimp, he's a great guy, but I am not going to suffer, nor are my kids, for his poor spending choices. I used to be the one that was irresponsible and then it shifted. Years ago, it was so tight that he gave up. We just could not win and we were at the mercy of the bank constantly - begging for our money back from overdrafts. This is when I stepped in.

 

Over a year ago we went from an apartment to a rental house. While at the rental house with higher payments and bills, we were suffocating. It was not worth it to me to live that close to the edge. I told dh that we needed to go BACK to an apartment and he agreed. We made plans to move back and somehow along the way, we were able to buy a house. We had literally given up and ............ our credit was a joke. We did buy a house that we could afford, but we are on the edge due to other circumstances - my dh changing jobs this year and making less money. We have one car now and no health insurance for the first time. (Of course, even with health insurance we STILL had huge bills and we had great coverage by most standards). It is not easy living on one income and waking up at night with your heart palpitating every time you look into your account. It is difficult when you are doing your best to be wise and you feel like every force is working against you - even including your dh at times! :(

 

Jessica, I have a friend who gave her dh full control. She was doing what she felt was right biblically. Her dh ruined them and she is also to blame because she sat back and did not use the voice God gave her. Now they are separated and much of the reason is over money. She grew so frustrated with him and yet she remained passive. She thought his choices would catch up and teach him. She thought sitting back and letting consequence deal with it would work. It didn't. Her husband was this way in many ways, not just this area. But, it did her no favors and it did her kids no favors.

 

Our husbands need us in this way, we have wisdom and discernment and although they seem not listen sometimes, they do more than you think. You are still obligated to voice your opinion on what he is doing. Laying it out for him to see is the right thing to do. My dh did not and STILL does not want to talk about finances. It stresses him out. I would MAKE him stand with me and look at the spreadsheet so that he could see with his own eyes that we only have $20.00 until Friday and if you spend over - we are going to have to deal with the bank and I let him know he was going to have to deal with me. I make it painful for him.

Just my two cents. I know your frustration.

 

:iagree::iagree:.. Very much on the wife being quiet part. I think a wife as a partner has an obligation to help her partner where he is & where she knows he is weak.

 

My husband doesn't bring chocolate or soda in the house. Its nothing compared to Jessicas situation but the point is there, as well as there are things we dont' have in our house b/c they are a weakness to dh.

Now admittedly, it took a few years for dh to admit he can't be around certain things without caving in-

IF you know your partner has a weakness and do nothing about helping them, you are just as guilty. I second not going out to eat or going to movies.

 

hugs jessica. I've been where you are and after credit cards being pulled, a dh with no atm card & deep discussions, i am 100% in charge of the money. He & the kids get their spending and I have no say what he spends $$ on.

[jojomojo]

I hope you two can come to an agreement about all this without too much hard feelings or hurt :grouphug:

 

Do you think he would agree to an "allowance"? Maybe if you budgeted in some fun money for him he would be more open to sticking to a budget? Just budget something less than what he spends now. Once he sees the cash dwindling in his pocket, it might help it click.

 

Or...try the envelope system. I think sometimes part of the problem is when we don't actually SEE the cash (and see it dwindle) spending is a lot easier. If he can see divided up where it all needs to go it might help.

 

Also, you might want to work in some sort of reward for saving money. If there is money left over in the envelopes, make a deal that half goes to savings, half goes to him to spend as he chooses.

 

If it were me, I'd probably just completely take over and take away any form of spending. I'd tell dear old hubby that if he is not willing to help manage finances, he's part of what must be managed.

Edited October 10, 2008 by jojomojo

[Guest janainaz]

Sometimes it's a drag being the Pastor's wife. There is no place to turn. I'm sorry. I understand.

 

I think congregations need to see that pastors are human and that they deal with the same life circumstances as the rest of us. Reaching peoples hearts is done best by bringing yourself down. I don't expect a pastor to live a perfect life, nor do I judge his value of teaching God's word based on his downfalls. My dh went to school to be a pastor, he never became one by choice. He is a wonderful man, has an amazing heart and love for God, he is very in touch with the HEART of God, yet - he is human. After a lot of heated arguements, he did surrender finances to me and that was his way of dealing with his issue. By giving up control - this showed his strength.

 

Jessica, I am sure your dh is a good man and he's not perfect. I understand in today's society and in the "church", people want to believe that pastors have it all under control. But, what a lonely place to be in for you and for him. What pressure to live under. "My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness". This ALSO applies to your dh.

 

I wish pastors felt it ok to show their weakness to their congregation. No one has it all together, we are all trying. Christ sympathized with our weakness and he lowered Himself to reach our hearts.

Edited October 10, 2008 by janainaz

[sleepy]

Jessica, you have received a lot of wonderful advice in this thread. In particular, I agree with Leila's advice to seek the help of a 3rd party professional/financial advisor.

 

I just wanted to add my support... I know financial issues can really weasel their way between a husband and wife. I hope you are able to find a solution that works for both of you. :grouphug:

[Dawn E]

Jessica :grouphug:

 

We have had a similar last couple of months. A couple of nights ago I went to pearbudget.com and got started on a budget. We have never had one before which is part of the reason the money just blows away. Once I outlined everything and it was right there in black and white for DH to see, he finally got it. One of our issues has been his eating out every day for lunch. He works about 20 mins. away, so coming home is rarely an option. I have bought lunch ideas--they sit in the cabinet or freezer. I've packed leftovers--they get left in the fridge. It was never a priority. Now, he sees the issue and has acted upon it.

 

Another of our issues is my negligence in planning and implementing a menu for the week and buying weekly groceries. I end up getting behind and having him stop at Wal-Mart on the way home. This way we end up spending a lot more than we should...and Wal-Mart's non-grocery items are so tempting that we spend even more. The local grocery is more expensive than Wal-Mart, but I'm beginning to wonder if shopping there would end up being less in the long-run given all the impulse buys we fall prey to in Wal-Mart.

 

These things may not be helpful to you, but I hope it at least helps to know that you are not alone. It has been rather dark here due to DH being in a job that he despises and no other appealing doors opening up. At least my prayer life has improved greatly. :001_smile:

[kalanamak]

 

Any thoughts or advice as to what to do? I feel so alone in this.

 

Admin...I understand if you decide to delete this post due to the nature of it. If I've overstepped, I'm sorry.

 

A complete change-of-direction idea: could you talk to his dad about this? My exIL stopped calling me horrible names in Panjabi when they found out I was really trying to do the right thing with their son's failings.

[susie in tx]

Dave Ramsey talks about this. Usually, there is the spouse that does the budget and loves it and the spouse who wants to forget that there is a budget and is much more lackadaisacal (sp) about it.

 

Reading _The Total Money Makeover_ might be helpful. There may also be some recommendations on the DR website on how to handle this sort of thing. Dave is very pro marriage and pro family.

 

http://www.daveramsey.com

 

Do a search at the site for budget and husband.

[yvonne]

deleted

Edited October 10, 2008 by yvonne

[lollie010]

Jessica,

 

I sooo understand your frustration and wanted to offer my support. We are in a similar financial situation. My husband is a teacher and it takes almost every penny to pay the bills. He is not necessarily irresponsible, but he does like to enjoy himself and his family. I also do the finances and feel the burden before he does. I have found something that works for us, but of course everyone's circumstances are different. I pay all of the bills on payday whether they are due or not and take out what we need for groceries and gas. If there is any left over maybe only $20 a week, I get it out of the bank in cash and give the cash to dh. I explain to him that if he spends any money whatsoever out of the bank account then checks will bounce. Somehow by going ahead and taking care of our financial obligations immediately it gave us a clearer picture of what was discretionary (umm nothing). We lived this tight for two months and he suddenly found the energy to start an extra job, just a few hours a week. There are only so many pb&j sandwiches a man can eat before things change drastically. It doesn't take away much of our time together, but gives us all a few extra dollars to play with. I have also tried to pick up a few hours to help out, but because he has a better understanding of the situation, he is extremely supportive, helping with dinner, laundry and school stuff.

 

I really do understand the frustration and I do not mean to downplay your husband's participation in escalating the issue. But, to the extent you can take the focus off of him and put it on the issue (finances) together you may be able to get creative with the solutions.

 

I hope that things get better soon.

 

Laurel T.

[Sue G in PA]

I was gone, but I'm back b/c I read your thread and can relate (not to being the pastor's wife, but to the budget challenges). DH and I are taking Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace Univ. classes at a local church and so far they have helped tremendously. No, we don't all of a sudden have more money. BUT, instead of just wondering where our money went each paycheck, we are TELLING our money where to go each paycheck. You must take the amount your dh gets paid for each paycheck and allocate that money to a particular category...mortgage, utilities, food, clothing, telephone, cable, etc...making sure to take care of your "four walls" first (that is, shelter, food, clothing and transportation). We wrote down all the bills that get directly debited from our account or that we write checks for (mortgage, utilities, phone, cable, Compassion International sponsorship, credit card payments, etc.) and figured out which paycheck each bill would get paid from. KWIM? Then we figured out about how much we spend on food, gas, clothing, entertainment, school supplies, restaurants, etc. and gave each of those categories a dollar amount until our paycheck had all been "spent". Am I making sense? We use the cash envelope system now for everything that isn't automatically deducted or paid using a check. So, we use cash now for food (including restuarants), gas, clothing, entertainment, "blow money" (eveyrone must have some blow money, right!), gifts (saving for Christmas gifts or birthday gifts, etc.). Each paycheck we take cash out of the bank and put it in the appropriate envelopes. When the envelope runs out of cash...we stop spending. Now, of course, the first few months take a bit of "tinkering" to get it all right. This past paycheck, we had to "borrow" some money from another envelope for food b/c we went over budget (we're still figuring it all out!).

 

Anyway, PM me if you'd like more specific info. Like I said, this has solved a ton of our problems. Now if it would only solve the problem of too little money to cover ALL the categories...That's a different story. But, knowing ahead of time how much money we have allotted to each category is very freeing. It isn't stress-free yet, but it alleviates so much of it. I'm sorry you are having such difficulties. Oh, I forgot...dh and I each get a certain amount for "blow money" each paycheck. That is our own personal "allowance" to do with what we want. No questions asked. The rest is in the family budget and we decide together where it goes, KWIM?

[Trivium Academy]

I'm doing that but I feel so guilty keeping the money aside when we actually need it. I feel dishonest by keeping it separate at those times. Right now I'm putting 1/2 of the support in our main account and 1/2 in an account that is only in my name. I've been emptying it out into our main acct. each month when things are desperate.

[jmgconner]

This is a *marriage* issue, not a money issue. Your DH is not loving you as Christ loves the church. It happens from time to time - we're all imperfect. Approach him and tell him that very thing - it might get his ears listening to you. Tell him that you feel disrespected because he won't take the time to even look at the work you've done, let alone plan TOGETHER for the future. Tell him that you want to work together on your dreams.

 

If you've done all of this, you need to find a MARRIAGE counselor, not a financial counselor.

[Trivium Academy]

I agree Jeanne but we don't have the $ to pay for a counselor. This really isn't about the money at all, it's about responsibility, trust, respect, and maturity. I'm to not hurt my marriage anymore than I have to by dealing with this.

[jmgconner]

I agree Jeanne but we don't have the $ to pay for a counselor. This really isn't about the money at all, it's about responsibility, trust, respect, and maturity. I'm to not hurt my marriage anymore than I have to by dealing with this.

 

:grouphug: I'll keep you in my prayers, and pray that God will soften your DH's heart to listen to Him.

[susie in tx]

This is a *marriage* issue, not a money issue.

If you've done all of this, you need to find a MARRIAGE counselor, not a financial counselor.

 

:iagree:

[dcjlkplus3]

I would talk to him, say "since you don't like the budgets that I have come up with, I would like you to be in charge of our finances, this is where we are and what I have been doing." And then pray that he lead your family like the responsible man of God that he probably is. Then you trust him and you trust God.

Good luck,

[3lilreds in NC]

As someone who is more like your dh when it comes to spending, I will share what worked for me. For years, I overspent with my CC. I told dh I needed him to take it away; he would not. I did not have the will power to get rid of it myself or just not use it. After about 12 years of him hoping I would get a financial clue, I have a cash-only budget. I get a set amount every month for my personal spending, groceries, clothing, and school expenses. DH buys most of our groceries at BJ's, but I get whatever fresh produce we need etc. from the grocery store.

 

When the cash is gone, it's gone. That's it. It's frustrating sometimes because I tend to spend it at the beginning of the month, as I've been waiting to get something until I got more budget, you know? Kind of a vicious cycle. BUT, the money is mine to do with as I please, so if I blow it all in one fell swoop, it's my choice to make.

 

Really, what changed is my *heart*. I hate that I hurt my husband with money. It's so important to him and was causing huge problems in our marriage. I could force the issue and demand my CC and refuse to follow a budget. I still manage to spend more than I should most months with online shopping. But, I am learning not to buy everything I see and to think about what I spend. It's an entirely new concept for me.

 

I am so grateful that my dh is financially savvy. If it were left up to me we would most likely be bankrupt.

 

Could you tell your dh that everyone, you included, is going on a cash-only budget? Would he willingly give up his CC and debit card? I'm sure you've talked to him until you're blue in the face, but I know if he had to see how he actually spends his cash, it would open his eyes.

[Moxie]

I'm doing that but I feel so guilty keeping the money aside when we actually need it. I feel dishonest by keeping it separate at those times. Right now I'm putting 1/2 of the support in our main account and 1/2 in an account that is only in my name. I've been emptying it out into our main acct. each month when things are desperate.

 

You have to realize that that kind of dishonesty is only going to make things worse. You have to work on the communication in your marriage. If you can stand in front of him and tell him ALL of the things you've said here and he doesn't change, you are going to have to go to someone else for help even if it means you have to go to the elders.

[Paula in MS]

I would highly recommend a cash budget for allowances, entertainment, eating out and even groceries. This can be divided on a weekly basis, by you. This would really help him "see" with his eyes how much money is left for each category. In all honesty, it is very difficult to manage joint accounts, debit cards and a budget with 2 people involved. It is very hard to get a feel for what is left in each budget category when it is all lumped into a checking account.

 

Dave Ramsey would call this the envelope system. It involves labelled envelopes with cash inside. When the cash is gone, no more spending. You have to come to an agreement during this time of no debit cards or it will backfire on you. Use it for your needs as well so that he does not feel like he is being given an allowance while you have free rein of the checking account.

 

I promise, if you use this system, it will open his eyes.

 

Paula

[PariSarah]

Okay, you're right about your finances. You are the one making the wise choices, and you are the one with the self-control to keep you guys on track. He's dragging you down. He really is.

 

But.

 

You can't get anywhere without him. That's what being married means.

 

What if, instead of presenting him with a budget that he needs to live up to, and making up a new one every time he messes up, you start from scratch?

 

Normally, agreeing to a budget is the first step to a good financial game plan. But you've got some baby steps to hit before you can even get there. Ask him to tell you how he wants you both to approach money. Ask him what his goals are, and how he wants to get there. Ask him what help he needs from you. If he needs to gripe about you for a little bit, let him. But then turn the conversation around: if you don't want to do it my way, how do you want to do it?

 

Listen to what he says, and let it sit for a week. Then find something, anything, that you can both agree to. It may not be Dave Ramsey approved, but you don't have to go to bed with Dave Ramsey every night. It should be something that makes you both happy. Something you can both succeed at.

 

And do that for a month. Do the best you can with everything else, but put all your energy into making that one thing work. Tell him how happy it makes you, praise him when he gives up something he wanted for the sake of the thing you agreed to, be willing to give up something you want for its sake.

 

Once that thing has become a non-issue, move on to something else. Build on previous successes. Instead of marking every failure, mark every success.

 

It'll take you longer to win financially this way than if he would just do what you are rightly, wisely insisting is the right way to do it. But you've already seen that you're not going to win financially that way, because he won't cooperate. You have to find a path that he is willing to walk. It'll take longer, but it'll be a much smoother road.

[dcjlkplus3]

Jessica,

I like the idea of cash envelopes, but I really like the idea of paying all the bills first (that is what we have finally done) and spending what is left.

We do not use the cash system (except with birthday/Christmas money) because we get a rebate every time we use our debit card, and we do okay as long as we keep the checkbook balanced.

[Carol in Cal.]

I think that others are right--you have to assertively take over a bit here.

 

Don't go with him when he wants to go out. Pay the bills yourself. Have an amount budgetted for entertainment, put it in cash in an envelope, and don't spend more than that each month.

 

I would also read a book called "Your Money or Your Life"--I think that, more than any other, it goes to the emotional roots of irresponsible spending. It encourages people to figure out what their deepest goals are, and focus on those. That way, instead of feeling deprived and poor when you don't go out to eat, you feel empowered and rich because you are choosing to prioritize other, more important goals instead.

 

My DH is like this, too. I go back and forth about it. We are not in the same financial straits that you are, because a few years back I went back to work when DH lost his job. He has a job, but is not making what he did before. So even if we were more frugal about eating out, I would still have to work. The hard thing is that now that we are both working fulltime, AND homeschooling, our lives are so stressed that we have to eat out more just to stand them. And that is another point that that book makes really, really well--that the true pay from your job is the pay you receive minus the money that you spend that you would not spend if you didn't have the job--including eating out, escape vacations, better clothes and car, etc. So sometimes people find that they are actually losing money on a second job.

 

If you have a chance to start following the Crown Financial Ministries radio broadcasts, I think that you would like those as well.

[Dawn E]

Please forgive my original post...I have no idea how I posted that response after rereading your post. My brain is so scattered right now...I must have only read your first paragraph and thought I'd read the whole post. Ugh. How moronic.

 

You have mentioned before that dh has depression tendencies. I tend to be an emotional spender, too. When I get stressed over finances, I want to buy books. I know, it makes no sense, but it is a strong urge I have to fight. Thankfully, I have been able to fight it, while your dh has not. My dh also has the head in the ground tendency when it comes to finances, and I do the bills. When he gets a bonus or some expected money comes along, his first reaction is for us to spend it. However, he is a tight-wad at heart and generally never actually goes through with the spending.

 

Here I am babbling again...anyway, my point is, I agree that this is not a financial issue at heart. This is a respect issue, a depression issue, a marriage issue. I know this has been a very frustrating time for you both with his back problems and you having to take on a heavy burden consequently. Seeking counseling is a wise thing, a very wise thing. I don't know if he's open to that, but I think you must push for it.

 

Jessica, I am so sorry. Please, again, forgive my flippant initial response. You have had so much change, transition, turmoil, etc. in the last year...I pray that you will soon find the rest and peace you desire and deserve.

[gamommy]

Jessica,

I wanted to thank you for your courageous and honest post. I SO understand. My dh is a public school teacher and we are a family of 6. For us finances are partially an overspending problem but mostly simple mathematics. When I left my part time teaching job to begin homeschooling (dh's request) we also added another child to our family. So we've cut income and added to our family size. Dh's very small raises are not even keeping pace with inflation, especially gas, energy, and food prices.

Since I handle all the money and his check is direct deposited monthly he is just so unaware and he likes it that way! I've cut back our spending in some areas, but we've always lived quite simply. There's simply nothing really left to cut. The one area that I've always spent more freely on was food. But I'm talking about homecooked food. We do not eat out but maybe once or twice per year, seriously. Dh has rather gourmet tastes and loves trying new recipes. I appreciate the cooking help as it's not my strength. But this month I've begun to tackle our grocery budget and now I'm meeting with some serious resistance from the whole family.

I feel alone in this struggle and embarassed. I get angry that he's sleeping peacefully while I'm tossing and turning with worry about whether we'll make it through the month without catastrophe. Though I feel led by the Lord to homeschool, I am seriously considering seeking my own employment. I earnestly wish that dh would consider doing so as his earning power is honestly much greater than mine, but he is not willing to at this time. While not an overspender of money generally he does jealously and unrealistically hoard his leisure time.

I feel like we've been sinking financially for over a year, but it's been a slow decline. Now we seem on the verge of truly going under and he simply refuses to acknowlege it. It honestly has erroded some of the love and respect that I have for him.

So.... I'm sending hugs and prayers your way. Thank you for sharing your heart. It has inspired me to continue to work on my similiar issue.

[Katrina]

Jessica, I totally agree with what everyone has said about you taking charge. Any advice I'm about to give in in addition to, not instead of.

 

After reading all these posts some details have become a little mixed up in my mind. Does your husband know that you are taking half the money and putting it into another account? I know you're using the money for your family, but if you're doing it behind his back it's allowing him to stay in the dark and not owning up to his behavior. I'm assuming you get paid once a month? Find out how much you need to spend on necessities like groceries, and take it out in cash. Tell you're husband you're doing this (but maybe don't tell him where you're stashing the envelope.) That way at least you have peice of mind that you have money to feed your family for the month. (I don't know how much discretionary money you have every month, but maybe if you made sure to take some out for eating out and going to movies and spread those treats out thoughout the month, he wont feel like he's doing without.)

 

Seperately, discuss with your husband how it's making you feel, both as a wife and mother. Maybe if he sees that his marriage is in trouble he'll realize how important it is to you. If not, then I agree with janainaz that you will just need to lay down the law.

[Kris]

Dave Ramsey talks about this. Usually, there is the spouse that does the budget and loves it and the spouse who wants to forget that there is a budget and is much more lackadaisacal (sp) about it.

 

Reading _The Total Money Makeover_ might be helpful. There may also be some recommendations on the DR website on how to handle this sort of thing. Dave is very pro marriage and pro family.

 

http://www.daveramsey.com

 

Do a search at the site for budget and husband.

 

Excellent advice -- and you might want to take a look the LLNOE forums. These people are absolutely rabid! But they'll have some great ideas.

[hornblower]

I'm going to go off in a different direction.

 

I think maybe your dh knows exactly what's happening. Let me explain.

 

I think many men feel a HUGE sense of pressure to provide for their families. It's a source of pride, identity and self worth to be able to 'bring home the animal from the hunt'. I suspect the unwillingness to have you work is because it would be a blow to his pride.

 

I suspect he knows the finances are not what he'd like. He wants to shower you with all kinds of things & he wants to enjoy a certain standard of living which he equates with being a successful good provider. He knows it's not happening & irrationally, he's doing exactly the things that are making it worse and worse. He's in denial - he's not being a jerk or irresponsible. I think he's carrying a huge load of pain in his heart and is just being irrational. This type of thing can manifest itself in over spending, or becoming a workaholic, or insomnia, or addictions etc etc. I do think at the root it's the same thing - a tremendous fear of failure & a feeling of being out of control.

 

I would suggest this:

Tell him over & over again how much you love, admire and respect him & how much you trust him to do the right thing. Don't tell him he's bankrupting you :001_smile: Tell him the opposite. Tell him that he's a good man & even if the family gets tossed on the economic waves hitting the country, you know he'll do right by you. Tell him you appreciate his hard work. I think hearing it over & over again might sink in a bit & be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Have lots of tea.

 

Practically, I agree with taking all the money up front, paying all the bills & suggesting that the entire family just use cash for the month. You can present it as just an idea, you can blame it on yourself ("I think it might help me curb my spending"). Say it's just an experiment & if it doesn't work, we can try something different next month. Lock up the credit & debit cards. Give them to a trusted relative. Get them out of his hands.

 

I understand that you have limited options in terms of having someone speak to him. I can see you wouldn't want to involve elders in your church but are there no peers - seminary friends, pastors at other churches - whom you couldn't call for an intervention? I would state it very simply - "dh needs help. He's struggling with finances & he needs to talk it over with other men. Can you help? He needs to hear about this from other men." There must be tons of men going through the same thing & I think they need a nudge to talk about it because they're not good at that part :001_smile:

 

Also, what about encouraging your dh to offer to help his parishoners with financial planning? What if you said 'Honey, I think many families are struggling and need to hear concrete ideas about how to plan finances. Could we organize some learning nights for the families to learn how to do this? Maybe get together to watch these videos from such & such, or have a guest speaker etc' So it wouldn't be about you, it would be about the other families, but he would be involved & be there & hopefully learn alongside.

 

I hope this helps a bit. I wish you all the best.

[Lux Et Veritas Academy]

I would highly recommend a cash budget for allowances, entertainment, eating out and even groceries. This can be divided on a weekly basis, by you. This would really help him "see" with his eyes how much money is left for each category. In all honesty, it is very difficult to manage joint accounts, debit cards and a budget with 2 people involved. It is very hard to get a feel for what is left in each budget category when it is all lumped into a checking account.

 

Dave Ramsey would call this the envelope system. It involves labelled envelopes with cash inside. When the cash is gone, no more spending. You have to come to an agreement during this time of no debit cards or it will backfire on you. Use it for your needs as well so that he does not feel like he is being given an allowance while you have free rein of the checking account.

 

I promise, if you use this system, it will open his eyes.

 

Paula

 

 

I agree with the above poster- but I would also check the depression issue and its impact on the spending. You can find light at the end of the tunnel and empower yourself.

 

Here is a great resource that my particular church puts out- http://www.providentliving.org/channel/0,11677,1709-1,00.html

 

It has tons of great info including "one for the money" a fabulous pamplet on finances.

 

My prayers are with you- my friend!

[Tap]

I am curious what you husband thinks or feels about the budgets you come up with?

 

Does he think that they are a good idea but then he doesn't have the willpower to contain his spending?

 

Is he just appeasing you by saying 'yes, dear that is a good idea' but then doesn't really care about the budget?

 

Does he like to spend more than he makes and just really doesn't have the cost of things in mind before he spends?

 

Does he forget that the money is gone and spend again?

 

Does he want to do things away from the house/church and will do anything to get away? (similar to drinking to drown out stress)

 

Do you have so much control over everything at home (not a bad thing-just a reality in some families) that he feels that he wants to control (albeit poorly) something?

 

 

 

Dh and I have two separate accounts because we handle finances very, very different from one another. In the beginning it seemed weird but now wouldn't have it any other way.

 

He is a saver. He will pinch pennies till the bleed. I love this part of him, because I know our future is secure, and that he had devoted a lot of time and personal sacrifice to get us there. He on the other hand does like to buy or spend on expensive things (TV, stereo, car upgrades, vacations).

 

For DH, he likes to pay the bills, save money, pay the ING or investment accounts, and pay a general savings for his splurges. Recently he had an extra couple of thousand in his account so he bought a short term CD until he figures out what to do with it.

I on the other hand love to go out for lunch, have a nice beer with dinner, or buy a little pretty here and there. I do save, just not every penny. I spend a little money often, dh spend a lot of money seldomly. Like dh: I had a couple of thousand saved so I bought a laptop :0). I pay the daycare, the holiday expenses, parties and school items. Anything left over..is mine for my little splurges.

 

 

One other thing I have figured out over time is that while dh hates to spend money, he almost Needs To spend something on himself everyonce in a while. It seems like the more that piles up on him, the more he deprives himself, the more that he really needs to splurge. I liken it to a dieter who diets too long and too hard, sometimes they just need a reality check. That one piece of chocolate cake, won't undo a years worth of hard work.

 

The reason the dual account system works for us is that when my little splurge money is gone...I know I can wait a week until my account is back in the black. The ebb and flow of my account would drive dh nuts! For dh he needs to know that all the accounts are paid and that there is a sizeable chunk in savings for him to have fun playing with investments.

 

Since you and dh are so very different in your spending, maybe you would like a similar system. You can give him some of the responsibily of some of the bills. But then give him some extra to do what he want with it. You can do the same, you have your bills to pay, and then you get the extra to do what you want with. I would give him the bills that he is most likely to pay, like the tithe. I would not pick for him, let him pick which he pays. If he has overextended himself then the penalty comes out of his next months spending. He gets to pick if he does it online or by mail and he gets to control the date. I personally would mark the last possible day it can be paid on the caledar, and on that day say "did the mortgage get paid okay?" and if he says yes...let it go! Don't comment at all except maybe a 'great, what do you want for dinner'. Don't push for details, don't converse about it, just leave it alone. If he says 'No' , I would say, 'you still have time, if you take it to the postoffice tonight, there won't be that $100 late fee'. Then let it go! Unless being late will affect your interest rate, let him suffer through.

 

If it gets out of control you can step in but otherwise it sounds like he really needs a reality check on the bills. And he needs to know how much is really left, to spluge with, without competing with you for the left overs. You can save to your hearts content, he can spend. You both get your 'love language' and don't have to fight eachotherr for the same limited resource.

 

Dh and I also sometimes get a little extra money, either from and extra shift at work, bonus, or gift. That money for us, goes directly in the beneficiaries account. If I work extra..I get it. If he gets extra...he gets it.

 

The bills are easy to split, but you will have to figure out how to split the incoming moneys. If dh is paid twice a month maybe you each get a check (and divide the bills accordingly). Or you split it evenly, or you come to a mutual decision on how to split it that seems fair to you both.

 

Well I know this is long and I don't have time to edit so I hope it sounds okay, but I have to run out the door. I hope no matter what method you take, that you can find a way to make it work you you both.

[rafiki]

.

[Trivium Academy]

For those of you that posted you have either experienced something similar or are currently going through it, thank you. Reading your posts made me feel so much better that we're not the only ones struggling with this. Dh inadvertently saw someone's private message to me about this and we (ahem) talked (quite loudly) about it for a while. He was embarrassed that I was talking about it to someone else but at least that opened his eyes to the problem.

 

I can't say anything is fixed but I feel hopeful b/c I think he finally realized that I'm not trying to control him or be inflexible, that I really have our family's interest at heart. We're going to work on developing a budget that works for both of us, at least that was the conclusion of today's talk. :) Good news, Dh has access to a financial advisor through the ministry so we're see how that goes.

 

I was very scared about posting, even more terrified to reply to some of your posts :blush: but I'm so grateful I did now, at least for today's conversation. I'm a bit more realistic than idealistic in this circumstance, time will tell.

 

Thank you all.

[Claire in NM]

Just a couple of suggestions. Can you move to a smaller home? Can you disconnect cable/satellite TV?

 

Claire in NM

[Alaska Mom]

Jessica,

:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:.

[CookieMonster]

For those of you that posted you have either experienced something similar or are currently going through it, thank you. Reading your posts made me feel so much better that we're not the only ones struggling with this. Dh inadvertently saw someone's private message to me about this and we (ahem) talked (quite loudly) about it for a while. He was embarrassed that I was talking about it to someone else but at least that opened his eyes to the problem.

 

I can't say anything is fixed but I feel hopeful b/c I think he finally realized that I'm not trying to control him or be inflexible, that I really have our family's interest at heart. We're going to work on developing a budget that works for both of us, at least that was the conclusion of today's talk. :) Good news, Dh has access to a financial advisor through the ministry so we're see how that goes.

 

I saw your post and was unable to respond yesterday. I thought about you a lot, though, because I totally understand where you're coming from.

 

I'm glad your dh accidentally saw a PM that sparked a discussion that brought some positive results. This money stuff is so hard...I believe it's the number one reason cited for divorce.

 

Anything to do with finances is a window into a person's heart, personality, needs, and desires. (As one person put it: Don't tell me what's important to you. Show me your checkbook and your calendar and I'll tell you what's important to you.)

 

I would like to encourage you to see these struggles as an opportunity for tremendous growth. It has been for my dh and myself.

 

We both came into marriage unable to even balance a checkbook from month to month. We both came into marriage obsessed in all the wrong ways about money and the spending thereof. We both wanted to save, but didn't know how. We both wanted to spend, and spent way too much because we couldn't keep track of it.

 

Now, six years later, things are completely different. We have two months salary in an emergency fund, and it's continuing to grow. We tithe and save every month before we spend. We never spend more than what's left over after that. We have only one consumer loan, for furniture, that is a no-interest loan. We have no credit card debt. We pay an extra $100 every month on our mortgage. We are saving for college, home repairs, our next vehicle, Christmas, and other things. :001_huh: US! The people who couldn't balance a checkbook.

 

I would offer to you to take seriously what PariSarah and hornblower said. Combined, they make an excellent place to start. With my heart in that place, when I approached dh about money, things went differently.

 

I also know that the Lord used used Crown Financial Ministries broadcasts to help change dh's attitude, heart, and mind about money (oh, and mine too). Not that you have to roll over and follow everything they tell you hook-line-and-sinker in order to see our level of financial security. We don't (it's pretty similar, but not their exact way of doing things). Any financial counselor who tells you to 1.spend less than you make and 2.get out of debt will do the job: Suzie Orman, Dave Ramsey, others.

 

I also know that we had lots of ups and downs. It's frustrating for a spending plan/budget to not work. And several times ours didn't. It's tiring to have to create a new budget every time something changes. And for a while that was every couple of months for us. It's sometimes quite a test of the heart to do what is right with money, rather than what is easy. And we didn't always pass the test.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that I've realized all this financial stuff comes with two sides: the relationship and the money-management. Work on both the relationship and learning about fiscally responsible money management. As your hearts and minds grow together in either area, the other area benefits.

 

Ok, I hope that made some sense and was encouraging. Encouraging is what I wanted to be.

 

All the best in this journey,

CMonster