Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I was reading a closed thread about Palin and a subthread started in there on declawing cats that I could not post to and clear something up. So this thread is just to post what I wanted to there. Mom to Aly said something like "vets will tell you it's just taking off their claws blah, blah, blah,". I am here to say that any vet worth their salt will straightaway tell you declawing is an amputation of the third phalanx. It is dissecting out the equivalent of the last joint of your finger. Many vets today do this with a laser which does decrease some recovery time and does a less traumatic job than the scalpel blade. I don't recommend declawing to anyone but of course our practice does do many of them ( I am not an owner of the clinic so I do not set policies, I also do not do any elective surgeries anymore as all my appointments are in the evening). My main point is to say, if you have a vet that thinks declawing is just about a severe nail trim, get a different vet because they are not being straight with you. For those of you who do want to declaw your cats, make sure you do it when they are young, like under a year and that your vet offers good post-op pain meds like metacam. Please do not declaw older cats or do all four feet, they really have a hard time with that. Soph Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3lilreds in NC Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks for posting this. I used to have all my cats declawed because it's just what we did when I was growing up - then I learned what it really does to them. No more declawing! There are times that I could choke my cats for their choice of sharpening spots, but they get to keep those claws. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenKitty Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I am not against it or for it. Though, I used to get my cats declawed, per vets recommendations at the time. Though these days I have a dif vet who doesn't push either way, letting the choice be up to the owners. I have choosen not to declaw them and I trim their claws on my own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks, Soph. I think lots of people declaw their cats because, as you mentioned, they think of it as nothing more than a severe nail trim. If more people were aware of what declawing actually is, maybe it would stop. One day when my kids were younger we were taking a walk around the neighborhood. We saw some dogs and realized they had a cat. I ran over, but it was too late. The cat was dead. I had to ring the bell and tell the owner that her kitty was dead in the yard. Kitty had been declawed, of course, and couldn't get up the tree that she died beside. My kids cried for hours. I was upset and angry. Declawing isn't nice. Letting a declawed kitty outside (this woman routinely let her kitty outside) is unbelievable. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
always cookin' Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I found that there are usually adult cats in shelters who are already declawed. I have adopted two of them and they are great! They are indoor cats by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I think declawing should be banned. It's unethical. If you're not willing to take on the repsonsibility for cat's claws, then don't get one. Get a hamster instead. We've got 4 cats. When I got 3 of them we lived in another town and the vet refused to declaw. When we got the kitten last year, I wrote DO NOT DECLAW all over her presurgical paperwork and high-lighted it with an orange marker. When a vet tech called to tell me she came through surgery just fine, she jokingly said that they accidently declawed her. I replied that it was too bad that my lawsuit would require the firing of anyone who went against my direct orders in the care of my pet. She wasn't chuckling after that. Not funny. I did the same thing with my son in the hospital when he was born. I had DO NOT CIRCUMSIZE written everywhere. :D I embarressed DH a bit. But that kid was going to be carried out of there with his foreskin!! As it turns out, the circ rate at the hospital was pretty darn low and no one wanted to do them, from the nurses to the doctors - it just meant less work for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I found that there are usually adult cats in shelters who are already declawed. I have adopted two of them and they are great! They are indoor cats by the way. Good for you! I'd give you rep if I could! This is a soapbox issue for me. I am VERY opposed to declawing. But I think it's wonderful that people who want a declawed cat think to adopt a shelter cat that has already been declawed. The shelter here was full of them when we went to adopt a cat earlier this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I've had cats all my life and have never, ever had any of them declawed. I think it's a horrible practice, and it should be forever banned. Someone once gave us a cat that had been declawed. Poor thing...we could hear her poor little front feet clicking on the hardwood floors when she walked, and her "posture" wasn't quite right because of the way her little feet had been mangled. Bless her heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaKim Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My inlaws just got a kitty and had all 4 feet declawed. Poor thing. How can it even scratch when it itches? :sad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I think it ought to be banned, too. I leave all original parts on cats, dogs and children, with the exception of reproductive bits for the animals. Cutting off some ear here or tail there to improve the "look" is just barbaric. Ditto declawing for cats. I think its illegal in Australia, I am not sure about the UK or Canada. Soph- why is there not a smaller operation for female dogs or cats (or rats or rabbits, for that matter)? Spay is such a huge operation, and I feel terrible whenever I have to do it. Of course the alternative is far worse- all those unwanted kittens, puppies, etc, and heat. But it seems like there would be a simpler way than a total hysterectomy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSinIL Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Our cats are indoor only - one cat (from a shelter - as are three of the four - the first cat just showed up and adopted us!) had to have all four paws declawed as we realized after we brought her home, bonded, etc. that OUCH - for whatever reason she NEVER retracted her claws. It was either rename her "Prickles" and stock up on bandaids or declaw her. She was not mad or angry or defensive - she'd walk over our laps, purring like crazy and head-butting use for petting with all claws out! I have never had a cat like that!!! Aside from the bloodshed on our part, the couch was being "plinked" to bites. (If we had had carpeting I think the kitty would have gotten stuck, like velcro!!!) The other three are front-declawed only. They can still use hind-claws if a kid is too rough (rarely happens). If we lived in the country and they could also go outside then I would never have declawed them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I knew what the surgeries entailed. The vet didn't discourage me at all. I never had a cat before, and I figured ensured that she could live in our home without destroying furniture. She still has her back claws and has been known to use them (see scars on my kids). She jumps up on chairs and beds without any problem. She is a loving and well-adjusted kitty and has been for all the 16+ years (17 in March 09) that we've had her. Her cousin (male tabby) lived to be 14. He was also neutered/spayed and declawed at six months. He lived the last 10 years of his life as an indoor/outdoor cat with a half dozen other cats. He was the alpha cat of the group even though he'd been "de-balled and declawed." Kidney cancer ended his reign. I've been encouraged by those cat people who have cats that have kept their knuckle & claw and not destroyed furniture and would probably let my next kitty keep her claws. However, I don't think having my current kitty declawed when she was 6 months old has had any lasting effect on her life. K K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serendipity Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Well, our vet told me that it is better to have a cat declawed than to see it taken to a shelter and put to sleep. He said that when a cat uses its claws to tear up furniture or people, it makes the owners dislike the cat which can lead to the cat being taken to a shelter. Better to declaw a cat and keep it in a loving home, than to end up disliking it so that you want to get rid of it. He only did front claws. Our cat is fine. In fact, she was two years old when she was declawed. She learned to scratch up furniture from a new kitten we were cat-sitting. That's when we took her in to be declawed. She was *more* loving after having her front claws removed and she was pretty lovey to begin with. She goes outside all the time and is just fine. She's seven years old now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KS_ Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I've been encouraged by those cat people who have cats that have kept their knuckle & claw and not destroyed furniture and would probably let my next kitty keep her claws. I've had a number of cats (all indoor) and have never had an issue with them destroying (or really even scratching on) my furniture. I think one of the biggest things is just supplying them with something they can scratch on that they like. My cats have all really liked scratching on berber carpet, so I'd get scrap pieces of carpet and fasten them to heavy duty cardboard tubes (I think I got those from newsprint rolls). Some cats prefer the posts lying on the floor, and one particularly liked the post upright, so he could stretch up and scratch. If they ever did show an interest in the furniture, they'd get scolded or squirted with a water bottle, then taken to their post and praised :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest janainaz Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have a cat and he is not declawed, he's a pretty good guy and only scratches on an old suitcase in my closet. However, I did have a cat that violently attacked my son when he was 6 months old. He was just learning to crawl and barely touched the cats tail and she went wild - put scratches all over his body. She had an attitude when I came home from the hospital with my son and just never got over it. My dh tossed her out the front door. Our biggest fights early in our marriage were over this cat and her scratching - EVERYTHING. He would not allow me to declaw her and - in the end, she hurt my son. I think it's fine to declaw a cat IF it is an indoor only cat and IF you are responsible with not ever letting it out. That would be cruel to leave a cat defensless. However, there are some cats that no matter what you do, they have scratching issues and never get over it. Our cat we have now is good and is good with my kids. He has scratched my 3 year old several times, but in more of a warning kind of way. He's teaching my son to respect his space and this ds has to learn the hard way, unfortunately. But, he's a sweet cat. I have had some cats declawed and we did the laser declaw. They came home like nothing had happened and it did not change their personality at all. I understand the idea behind it being barbaric, but our cats have been happy and treated well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beansprouts Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I have never found it necessary to declaw a cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Soph- why is there not a smaller operation for female dogs or cats (or rats or rabbits, for that matter)? Spay is such a huge operation, and I feel terrible whenever I have to do it. Of course the alternative is far worse- all those unwanted kittens, puppies, etc, and heat. But it seems like there would be a simpler way than a total hysterectomy! Ovariohysterectomy (OHE) is the preferred sterilization of choice for small animals. This means removal of the uterus and both ovaries. Dogs, cats, and other species can get ovarian cancer just like us so removing them at the time of uterine removal is the norm. There are also hormone related medical issues that can arise in older animals left with intact ovaries. Also, behaviorally, they will still act like they are in heat if their ovaries remain which can be somewhat undesirable for some families. Laparoscopic surgery is certainly getting more popular however it is often cost-prohibitive for most owners given that the overwhelming majority of small animals do not have insurance and many vet clinics would need to refer to another practice that actually has a scope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRAAB Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thank you for this information. I did not know this. We had one cat declawed but never did it again. The one cat we had declawed was clumsy. She would jump up on something and fall off, knock things off a table. It was pitiful. This probably had nothing to with declawing, but I always felt sorry for her. Figured God gave her claws for a reason. ;) Janet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spy Car Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hey Soph (or anyone else), do you know anything about the "Soft Paws" claw-covers that Mom to Aly linked to in the other thread as a "de-clawing" alternative? http://www.softpaws.com/ Bill (who knows nothing about cats) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hey Soph (or anyone else), do you know anything about the "Soft Paws" claw-covers that Mom to Aly linked to in the other thread as a "de-clawing" alternative? http://www.softpaws.com/ Bill (who knows nothing about cats) I have read about them but I am not sure of cost or any untoward complications. In my experience, cats hate to have anything put on their feet or legs, they wave the limb around like a flag until the thing comes off. So they would have to be unnoticed by the cat or the cat would have to get used to them after awhile. I am all for things that may benefit pet and owner as long as no harm is done. Soph (who is a cat vet but not a cat groomer:D) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plucky Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I tried them about 4 years ago and they annoyed my cats and kept coming off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle T Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Hey Soph (or anyone else), do you know anything about the "Soft Paws" claw-covers that Mom to Aly linked to in the other thread as a "de-clawing" alternative? http://www.softpaws.com/ Bill (who knows nothing about cats) One of my cats simply chewed them off within a day, and the other cat kept them on a few days, but they all fell off within a week or so. Michelle T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remudamom Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Cats claw. Live with it or don't get one. They have those claws for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 One of my cats simply chewed them off within a day, and the other cat kept them on a few days, but they all fell off within a week or so. Michelle T Good to hear what really happens with some of these products! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mom to Aly Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I was reading a closed thread about Palin and a subthread started in there on declawing cats that I could not post to and clear something up. So this thread is just to post what I wanted to there.Mom to Aly said something like "vets will tell you it's just taking off their claws blah, blah, blah,". I am here to say that any vet worth their salt will straightaway tell you declawing is an amputation of the third phalanx. It is dissecting out the equivalent of the last joint of your finger. Many vets today do this with a laser which does decrease some recovery time and does a less traumatic job than the scalpel blade. I don't recommend declawing to anyone but of course our practice does do many of them ( I am not an owner of the clinic so I do not set policies, I also do not do any elective surgeries anymore as all my appointments are in the evening). My main point is to say, if you have a vet that thinks declawing is just about a severe nail trim, get a different vet because they are not being straight with you. For those of you who do want to declaw your cats, make sure you do it when they are young, like under a year and that your vet offers good post-op pain meds like metacam. Please do not declaw older cats or do all four feet, they really have a hard time with that. Soph In the hopes of bypassing another "Mom to Aly" bashing session (I just saw the first and it wasn't a pretty sight), I haven't had a cat declawed in 18 years, but, the last time I asked, about 8 years ago, my vet said it was nothing--and one of my neighbors had it done 3 years ago and the vet said it was just like taking out the claws, absolutely nothing more. I've heard that from several other people who have had it done in the last few years. I am impressed that there are others that don't say that, and that there are new methods. From what I understand, from the SPCA, where my daughter and I volunteer, and from PETA (which I know is ultra extreme, in most cases), there are lots of vets who greatly under play the effects. I, too, wish they would do away with it. Soph, have you heard of dog declawing? Apparently that is done, and is even more horrendous! Ughhh!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newbie Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 We declawed second set of cats after having furniture tore up, it didnt matter how many scratching posts we put in they did a nbr. and they also tore up our carpet. Btw, only front paws, and done at three mos. Suffice to say we have stopped. Our newest kitty has all her claws, and uses my new berber carpet as her scratching post, but I love her to death. She is sitting in my lap. I promise, I will not declaw again, I think I wrote it on the blackboard last nite. Cats w/claws for peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangearrow Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I found that there are usually adult cats in shelters who are already declawed. I have adopted two of them and they are great! They are indoor cats by the way. This is what we would do if we were to get a cat. :D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zelda Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I could throttle my adorable cat when I look at my furniture but I don't and I could never remove her claws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audrey Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My vet won't declaw for the exact same reasons you cited. They DO set the policies for that clinic, so no one there declaws. There are several other procedures they won't do, and considering that they are also livestock vets, this sometimes causes ire from clients, but I admire them for sticking to their principles. So do MANY others, which would explain the booming business there. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RebeccaC Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 (edited) All of our critter's are strays, 4 cats, 2 German Shepherds, and a Cockatiel :D We live next to a forest preserve and folks are so nice, not :glare:, to just drop their unwanteds off. Soph, Here is the deal with Baby Leo Kitty he is an extremely affection cat and craves being held. If I go into a room, including the bathroom, and close the door Baby Leo Kitty starts scratching. I know I am not suppose to attribute human emotions to animals but I swear I think this cat has separation anxiety. When I am in the bathroom he must be held, or sit at my feet, or next to the tub..... and this is getting old. We have a carpet clad scratching post which he uses but he loves wood more and our trim all over the house is seriously shredded and we are starting to get splinters. Is it possible to do some sort of behavior mod with a cat? I suppose I should add that when we got him it was right after something tried to eat him. We didn't know for a while if he would survive he was in really bad shape and required a lot of nursing. We have had him for over a year now. Vet said he was about 9 months old when we got him. Edited October 10, 2008 by RebeccaC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hornblower Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Instead of maiming, I'm all for training. Cats can be clicker trained to do amazing things: http://www.clickertraining.com/node/846 One of the prominent dog trainers has a sig line that says "If you don't have time to train your dog, get a stuffed animal." I think that goes for cats too. :001_smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camibami Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thanks Soph! I swore we would never get another female animal after the dog, but while we have never actively sought out any pet but her, they seem to just...find us. And they are always females! I just wish there was an easier way. I have major guilt whenever I spay- it looks soooo painful and is such a huge operation. Neuter? No sweat, despite the fact that it gives DH the creeps! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paula in PA Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Cats claw. Live with it or don't get one. They have those claws for a reason. :iagree: My very first cat, a Siamese, was declawed. I was 11 and really had no choice in the decision. It didn't stop him from 'scratching' anything, he just didn't do any damage. But it showed me just how strong the instinct is for them. So now we have 7 cats, 6 adults and 1 little 8 week old (see avatar :)), and none are declawed or will be declawed. That includes our almost feral 1 year old who has scratched both me and my dh numerous times. The vet suggested it at her spaying, but I just couldn't do it. I would love to see it outlawed as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 Soph, have you heard of dog declawing? Apparently that is done, and is even more horrendous! Ughhh!!! The only dog declawing that I have done is removing dewclaws (non-articulating) on 3 day old puppies. I have also removed mature dog dewclaws that were getting caught on things, like hunting dogs running through brush and their dew gets caught and causes a bad laceration, that kind of thing. I've also removed a broken claw to alleviate animal suffering if it is half hanging off kind of thing. But otherwise I am unaware of people having their dog declawed in the same sense that a cat would be declawed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soph the vet Posted October 10, 2008 Author Share Posted October 10, 2008 All of our critter's are strays, 4 cats, 2 German Shepherds, and a Cockatiel :D We live next to a forest preserve and folks are so nice, not :glare:, to just drop their unwanteds off. Soph, Here is the deal with Baby Leo Kitty he is an extremely affection cat and craves being held. If I go into a room, including the bathroom, and close the door Baby Leo Kitty starts scratching. I know I am not suppose to attribute human emotions to animals but I swear I think this cat has separation anxiety. When I am in the bathroom he must be held, or sit at my feet, or next to the tub..... and this is getting old. We have a carpet clad scratching post which he uses but he loves wood more and our trim all over the house is seriously shredded and we are starting to get splinters. Is it possible to do some sort of behavior mod with a cat? I suppose I should add that when we got him it was right after something tried to eat him. We didn't know for a while if he would survive he was in really bad shape and required a lot of nursing. We have had him for over a year now. Vet said he was about 9 months old when we got him. Here's my short answer for what is usually a very long winded answer. He could certainly have separation anxiety. There are behavior modification things you can try (I am not a feline behaviorist, horse yes, cat no) Also, there are pheromones, like a plug-in thing that might work, and there are medications as a last resort like antidepressants. Sorry but I'm taking off for swimming lessons! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nestof3 Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 Thankfully our cats love our carpet post thing from Petsmart. And, I'm glad I didn't have then declawed -- of course you have to agree to it anyway when adopting from our SPCA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Jenny Flint Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 My cat has worn them for years and has only chewed off one or two here and there. I replace the ones she chews off and overall, they stay on for about 6 weeks, when it's time for a nail trim. I have found, now that she is older (13) that she doesn't claw very much at all, and rarely in an inappropriate place, so I have discontinued use. However, if they are glued firmly in place and used from a young age, I would guess that most cats would get used to them. Also, they are not terribly expensive and they come in every color you can think of! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovedtodeath Posted October 10, 2008 Share Posted October 10, 2008 I think it's fine to declaw a cat IF it is an indoor only cat and IF you are responsible with not ever letting it out. That would be cruel to leave a cat defensless. However, there are some cats that no matter what you do, they have scratching issues and never get over it. I have had some cats declawed and we did the laser declaw. They came home like nothing had happened and it did not change their personality at all. I understand the idea behind it being barbaric, but our cats have been happy and treated well! :iagree:I know what it entails. I figured my cats would rather be declawed than put to sleep. My little kitty has always had problems with her paws. The vet said that she damaged them while jumping too much (to get away from our larger cats) after surgery. :( My DH will never get a pet that roams the house again, so I don't have to worry about the decision for another cat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gardening momma Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 Our cats are declawed on front paws only. They are indoor cats. The vet we took them to had a policy against declawing the back paws. Growing up, all the cats we had were declawed in front only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lakeside Posted October 11, 2008 Share Posted October 11, 2008 We've never tried Softpaws, but we do trim our cats' nails and it definitely helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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