Does "Crusaders" bother you as a team name?

[Ginevra]

I have wondered this for a long time, but have not mentioned it IRL or here, because I know many lovely homeschoolers who are members of this organization.

 

There is a Christian homeschool/private school sports organization here with this name; The Crusaders. The team affiliates with the Christian school DS attends and many hsers in my co-op participate and are in leadership positions in this organization. My son even has a Crusaders sweatshirt that he wears every week; it is within the uniform guidelines at his school because of the affiliation, though he is not and never has been on the team.

 

I just wonder if everyone is A-Ok with this name. Am I hypersensitive? I feel like this is glorifying/justifying a hideous aspect of Christian history.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Yes, it would bother me, to the point that my kid wouldn't be on the team.

 

I'd also have a problem with Conquistadors, Mongol Hordes, and Barbary Pirates as team names.

[Alessandra]

Yes, it would bother me, to the point that my kid wouldn't be on the team.

 

I'd also have a problem with Conquistadors, Mongol Hordes, and Barbary Pirates as team names.

This.

[TammyS]

My son almost attended a college whose sports team was the Crusaders.  We don't have a problem with it.   Of course, not everyone thinks the crusades were an awful thing.

[lynn]

No, I'm okay with it.

[Bluegoat]

The local swim team for kids in my town is called that.  It doesn't bother me.  The idea of a cursade isn't in itself particularly objectionable to most people IMO - I suspect few associate it with medieval Crusades.

[MercyA]

Yes, it bothers me.

[shawthorne44]

I would be A-OK with it.   I also don't think the Crusades were a bad thing.  

 

Although, even if I did think they were a bad thing, I wouldn't worry about it.  If a team wanted to call themselves the A-Holes or the Murderers or the Jihadists, I'd be fine with that too.  I might be less likely to join, and I wouldn't be flying a team flag from my car window.   

 

[Murphy101]

Nope.

 

But I'm Roman Catholic and am pro-not letting the Saracens sack Rome, the Turks overtake Byzantine, Muslim invasion in Spain, and more while at the same time deploring the general massacre both sides of the wars posed to general populations whenever either side had a victory.

 

It's not like Muslims of the time were particuliarly sweet either.

 

War sucks like that.

 

I'm rather pragmatic about these things.

 

From the Christian POV, "crusaders" is nothing more than a fight to protect the faith and Christians, making it an apt sports team name for a Christian school or association.

 

I'm sure there are Muslim team names that upon inspection of non-Muslims might raise eyebrows, but it wouldn't bother me. It's a team name, not a political manifesto.

[creekland]

No, team names do not bother me.  They've taken on their own identity now and few actually connect them with any sort of past.

 

It takes a lot to bother me TBH.  Most things folks can get bothered by tend to be very small stuff in my world.

[Amira]

I wouldn't be wild about it no matter what, but I would be somewhat less uncomfortable with its being used by a team without a Christian affiliation like the local swim team mentioned above because the term crusaders has a much broader meaning now than it started with.

 

It does bother me with a Christian team.

 

A lot of team names bother me.

[redsquirrel]

bother me, as in get me in a snit? No. But it tells me that the organization that hosts that team is prob not an organization that wants me as a member. And that's probably fine with them.

 

It also makes me think either they don't know their history, or worse, they do.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

My son almost attended a college whose sports team was the Crusaders.  We don't have a problem with it.   Of course, not everyone thinks the crusades were an awful thing.

Even those who understand some possible moral intent behind some aspects and original goals of the Crusades (raises hand) must surely understand that the net negative response, globally and historically, is appropriate given the outcomes...this is not a welcoming or hospitable moniker. It represents war and suffering.

[marbel]

It would bother me only because of the negative associations others have for the name. I am neutral about it, but I think it's not a good choice because of the emotions it brings up in other people.  Many people would think badly of the school, even if I would not. 

 

I don't consider that time to be Christianity's finest hour, but it was a long time ago and I don't think the word should be tainted forever. Unfortunately, it seems to be.

Edited June 2, 2016 by marbel

[Spryte]

Agreeing with Tibbie, twice.

 

It would bother me. It does bother me. I was going to ask for an explanation of why some think the crusades were a good thing, but that's been addressed. I still think it's glorifying war and atrocities. I wouldn't be ok with any team name that does that.

[73349]

Yes. I think team names should reflect the level of sportsmanship and leadership we want to see from participants.

[TammyS]

Even those who understand some possible moral intent behind some aspects and original goals of the Crusades (raises hand) must surely understand that the net negative response, globally and historically, is appropriate given the outcomes...this is not a welcoming or hospitable moniker. It represents war and suffering.

 

http://www.catholicworldreport.com/Blog/4766/why_is_this_noncatholic_scholar_debunking_centuries_of_anticatholic_history.aspx

[Guest]

Nope.

 

But I'm Roman Catholic and am pro-not letting the Saracens sack Rome, the Turks overtake Byzantine, Muslim invasion in Spain, and more while at the same time deploring the general massacre both sides of the wars posed to general populations whenever either side had a victory.

 

It's not like Muslims of the time were particuliarly sweet either.

 

War sucks like that.

 

I'm rather pragmatic about these things.

 

From the Christian POV, "crusaders" is nothing more than a fight to protect the faith and Christians, making it an apt sports team name for a Christian school or association.

 

I'm sure there are Muslim team names that upon inspection of non-Muslims might raise eyebrows, but it wouldn't bother me. It's a team name, not a political manifesto.

Would it make any difference for you that the logo of the team is a white cross on a blue shield superimposed over a sword? It harkens pretty clearly to THE Crusades, not the more platonic word "crusade."

[gardenmom5]

no

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Would it make any difference for you that the logo of the team is a white cross on a blue shield superimposed over a sword? It hearkens pretty clearly to THE Crusades, not the more platonic word "crusade."

 

That makes it seem like their goal is to wipe out the enemies of Christ...through basketball? Maybe basketball now, but swords later if necessary? Yeah. No.

[Farrar]

In addition to the reasons mentioned above, I think it's probably just best if we move away from humans as mascots for teams in general. In this case, it's not racial, at least not per se, but the whole concept of person as mascot seems like it's a concept whose time is done.

[Murphy101]

Even those who understand some possible moral intent behind some aspects and original goals of the Crusades (raises hand) must surely understand that the net negative response, globally and historically, is appropriate given the outcomes...this is not a welcoming or hospitable moniker. It represents war and suffering.

I find that rather amusing since team names are usually not intended to be welcoming or hospitable. They are intended to convey the spirit of fierce intimidating competition in games that usually imitate war with a capture/invade territory strategy of some sort or simply out maneuver/outwit the opposing team.

 

Thus no team is particuliarly eager to be called The Congenial team.

[TravelingChris]

No. 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Agreeing with Tibbie, twice.

 

It would bother me. It does bother me. I was going to ask for an explanation of why some think the crusades were a good thing, but that's been addressed. I still think it's glorifying war and atrocities. I wouldn't be ok with any team name that does that.

 

The arguments as to why the Crusades were a good thing are fairly lol-tastic, and usually come from those who think that the Inquisition is misunderstood and that the RCC didn't go above and beyond to protect pedophile priests.

 

[ChocolateReignRemix]

I find that rather amusing since team names are usually not intended to be welcoming or hospitable. They are intended to convey the spirit of fierce intimidating competition in games that usually imitate war with a capture/invade territory strategy of some sort or simply out maneuver/outwit the opposing team.

 

Thus no team is particuliarly eager to be called The Congenial team.

 

Eagles

Bears

Steelers

Falcons

Salukies

 

Yeah, real intimidating names right there.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I find that rather amusing since team names are usually not intended to be welcoming or hospitable. They are intended to convey the spirit of fierce intimidating competition in games that usually imitate war with a capture/invade territory strategy of some sort or simply out maneuver/outwit the opposing team.

 

Thus no team is particuliarly eager to be called The Congenial team.

 

LOL

 

I didn't mean that it lacked warmth and congeniality toward sports opponents on the playing field, rather that the name of the club is inhospitable and unwelcoming to the community outside of itself.

 

[EmseB]

Even those who understand some possible moral intent behind some aspects and original goals of the Crusades (raises hand) must surely understand that the net negative response, globally and historically, is appropriate given the outcomes...this is not a welcoming or hospitable moniker. It represents war and suffering.

 

And sports teams like Lions, Tigers, or Bears represents mauling people, right?

 

The Raiders and the Pirates and the Vikings also represent pillaging and plundering and probably raping!

 

The Knights and the Chargers are also not welcoming or hospitable.

 

 

No, there are a lot of team names that are not welcoming.  That's the point.  It's supposed to be competitive and intimidating and fierce.  It's a metaphor, not a lifestyle.

 

I can't believe this is a thing to get upset over.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

 

I can't believe this is a thing to get upset over.

 

?

 

Nobody's upset.

 

That's a common thing to say, if somebody disagrees with something that doesn't bother somebody else. But nobody's upset. We're just talking here.

[EmseB]

That makes it seem like their goal is to wipe out the enemies of Christ...through basketball? Maybe basketball now, but swords later if necessary? Yeah. No.

 

I typed up my last response before I read this.  SMH...really???   This puts me somewhere between laughing and weeping.

 

My little boys soccer team last year was the Pirates.  Do I need to be worried they are going to be out plundering later if necessary?  That they will be setting life goals based on sports teams they've been on?

[Serenade]

Thus no team is particuliarly eager to be called The Congenial team.

 

 

This made me giggle.

[EmseB]

?

 

Nobody's upset.

 

That's a common thing to say, if somebody disagrees with something that doesn't bother somebody else. But nobody's upset. We're just talking here.

 

I was responding to the idea that a kid wouldn't be allowed on a team because of it. To me, that means whomever is making that call is upset about the team name. I would have to be upset about something to keep my kid out of a league because of it.  Perhaps I'm misinterpreting that type of protest.

[Murphy101]

Would it make any difference for you that the logo of the team is a white cross on a blue shield superimposed over a sword? It harkens pretty clearly to THE Crusades, not the more platonic word "crusade."

Not even slightly. I have nothing against the color white, blue and/or swords used in logos.

 

And that isn't at all a Jerusalem cross either, not that there was one specific type of cross put on shields throughout the crusades. But only Alfred seemed to have a blue shield... I think... Which likely would symbolize Mary. Whereas the more common red was a symbol of willingness to be martyrs of the faith. Thus it would seem one would have to avoid all crosses and or all shields on all logos regardless of team name to avoid offending some nonchristian who might erroneously presume they all refer to crusades (or maybe the feudal system I suppose?) and that seems rather impeding to freedom. No one has a right to not be offended.

 

Now, if a team really wanted to make a crusade statement, they should make Our Lady of Lepanto their patron and put her on the logos. And I wouldn't be averse to that either.

[Guest]

I find that rather amusing since team names are usually not intended to be welcoming or hospitable. They are intended to convey the spirit of fierce intimidating competition in games that usually imitate war with a capture/invade territory strategy of some sort or simply out maneuver/outwit the opposing team.

 

Thus no team is particuliarly eager to be called The Congenial team.

Yeah, I understand how it's supposed to be fierce. I am not anti-competition al all. I have no issue with the Hornets, the Cougars, the Beasts. But that said, the University of MD mascot is a freakin turtle for pity's sake, but they have still managed to beef up the "Terps" (terapin) mascot. University of Delaware is a Blue Hen. Ooooh, so scary! Lol. Just saying.

 

It's harkening to an aspect of crushing another human group that bothers me. We are Christians, therefore, we crush all others? I would not be okay with The Jihadists, either.

[HRAAB]

No, doesn't bother me.

[BarbecueMom]

That makes it seem like their goal is to wipe out the enemies of Christ...through basketball

I went to a Baptist Pre-K-12 school for preschool where the team was the Crusaders. Basketball was serious business there (and in 1987, with some seriously immodest little basketball shorts, lol). I think getting to at least 6' tall was a graduation requirement.

[Murphy101]

I went to a Baptist Pre-K-12 school for preschool where the team was the Crusaders. Basketball was serious business there (and in 1987, with some seriously immodest little basketball shorts, lol). I think getting to at least 6' tall was a graduation requirement.

See now, all I'd be thinking is... Baptist? A BAPTIST team called crusaders? Lol I guess I could get offended at baptists using a Catholic reference, but I live in the Protestant belt and getting offended that easily would quickly grow exhausting and depressing.

[Guest]

I was responding to the idea that a kid wouldn't be allowed on a team because of it. To me, that means whomever is making that call is upset about the team name. I would have to be upset about something to keep my kid out of a league because of it. Perhaps I'm misinterpreting that type of protest.

Well, I will say, I never rushed over --- "Oooh! Sign us up!" And the name was a part of the reason. But also, neither of my teens have wanted to participate in the sports they sponsor and/or, my kids were already involved in other sports teams, so it was moot. Would I forbid my child from that team because of the name if it was the only game in town? I'm not sure; probably not, based on the fact that I allow my son to wear that sweatshirt because he has it. I am not a fan and the shirt does bother me, but I haven't said, "Don't wear that shirt because Crusaders bothers me as a team name."

 

I am not a big stand-taker, so I haven't said a thing about it. But I have wondered if it is only me. Apparently not. But apparently, there are plenty of people who don't have any issue with it at all.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I forget who I'm responding to, sorry, but I'm in a rush to get out the door and wanted to clarify this before not having time to return to the thread today -

 

The reason my kid would not be on the team is that my family is committed to interfaith hospitality, so a sports club name that seems to say, "My people were in a holy war with your people and I'm of the same mind about the whole thing, all these generations later in a completely different time and place, in a more diverse community, but this is still how I see it. I mean, go Crusaders, I'm a Crusader, too," would not have the desired effect on our Muslim and middle eastern friends. We want them to see us as friends and neighbors living in a shared community here and now.

 

 

[pinkmint]

If anyone has a young dd you may have seen the My Little Pony episodes about the "Cutie mark Crusaders".

 

So I guess that's one example of it being used in current popular culture without anyone seeming to care much.

[Bluegoat]

Eagles

Bears

Steelers

Falcons

Salukies

 

Yeah, real intimidating names right there.

 

That is an odd comment - several of those at least are meant to be intimidating.  Eagles, bears, Falcons, are all fierce meat-eating wild animals.  Salukis are hunting dogs - they run down prey so they can be killed.  The connotation with Steelers is in part about being tough. 

[HRAAB]

See now, all I'd be thinking is... Baptist? A BAPTIST team called crusaders? Lol I guess I could get offended at baptists using a Catholic reference, but I live in the Protestant belt and getting offended that easily would quickly grow exhausting and depressing.

Hah! My daughter, a Catholic, played on a Baptist basketball team called the Crusaders. We were happy they let her join so she could play.

[abcmommy]

I can see both the Tibbie and the Martha side.  

 

I dunno.  I guess I would let my kid play if he wanted?  But then his highschool is the fighting Millers.  (GRIND THAT CORN?  That's sexual innuendo.  I learned it from Outlander.)

[Bluegoat]

Would it make any difference for you that the logo of the team is a white cross on a blue shield superimposed over a sword? It harkens pretty clearly to THE Crusades, not the more platonic word "crusade."

 

I might connect that more with the school, is it similar at all tho their logo?

 

My high school teams were called The Spartans.  I don't see it much differently.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

That is an odd comment - several of those at least are meant to be intimidating.  Eagles, bears, Falcons, are all fierce meat-eating wild animals.  Salukis are hunting dogs - they run down prey so they can be killed.  The connotation with Steelers is in part about being tough. 

 

lol

Ever look at the mascots for some of those names?  Intimidating doesn't come to mind.

[KungFuPanda]

Yes, it would bother me, to the point that my kid wouldn't be on the team.

 

I'd also have a problem with Conquistadors, Mongol Hordes, and Barbary Pirates as team names.

This.

 

You also have to eliminate Warriors, Soldiers, Raiders, etc if you're going to have a family policy of only joining teams with names that have zero violent connotations. Also, football especially is loaded with a battlefield mentality, so you might want to avoid the sport entirely if you have strong feelings about glorifying violence, war, crashing into teammates or concussions. The mascot name won't be the only battlefield message a kid will get on the sports field.

[Guest]

Lol. Oh man.

 

"Naw dog cause wasnt nothin wrong with the crusades or inquistition"

 

Unbelievable.

[KungFuPanda]

Also . . .

 

FEAR THE TURTLE!!!

[Caroline]

Also . . .

 

FEAR THE TURTLE!!!

That's what my shirt says.

[Bluegoat]

lol

Ever look at the mascots for some of those names?  Intimidating doesn't come to mind.

 

Having a cuddly or silly mascot doesn't mean the name isn't meant to be intimidating.  They weren't necessarily even developed at the same time.  A lot of mascots are essentially marketing things or meant to make fans at matches happy.  People also find cute mascots for what are meant to be intimidating things funny, which is appealing.

 

There is a reason there aren't many names like Turtles or Ducks, and quite a lot like Cougars or Spartans or Warriors. (And why if you are unfortunate enough to listen to many sports interviews the players and coaches are very often taking about battles and using other warrior type language to describe things that happen in the games.)

[MercyA]

Lol. Oh man.

 

"Naw dog cause wasnt nothin wrong with the crusades or inquistition"

 

Unbelievable.

 

:laugh:  :thumbup1: 

 

okbud, I'm so glad you're part of this forum.