Christian Content about Wicca & Teenager

[RoughCollie]

My 14 year old DS has a friend whose family practices Wicca. He is very interested in it and told DH and I last night that he has decided to be a Wiccan. I don't know if this is meaningful, but he was talking about his god being referred to as "the lord and the lady".

 

We are a Christian family. We had a talk with DS about this last night, when he approached us for the first time about it, and asked him some questions which upset him a lot. We basically cross-examined him about his beliefs.

 

Anyway, this afternoon he says he thought about it and has decided not to become a Wiccan. I have no idea whether this is true -- he could be appeasing me. He said he no longer wants a pentagram necklace for Christmas.

 

He is still interested in Wicca and would like to read some books about it. I don't object to this in that I read a whole bunch of books about Wicca when I was a teen because it was an interesting subject. Those books did not sway my spiritual beliefs in the least.

 

BUT this is my son. How do I know that he won't be further swayed by reading similar books? I feel like letting him read books about Wicca is the right thing to do. I don't like not being in control of his beliefs. OTOH, who does control the beliefs of their children? Even the Amish have a significant number of children who decline to join their church when they become adults.

 

I am pretty sure that if I come down extra hard on my son about this that it will drive him away from Christianity and toward Wicca. I will not ban him from his friendship because I do not want my children to grow up and reject people who do not fit into our belief system (except for witnessing to them). I also have no intention of taking him to talk with a pastor about this.

 

What would you do in this situation?

Edited October 4, 2008 by RoughCollie

[Heather in the Kootenays]

I am pretty sure that if I come down extra hard on my son about this that it will drive him away from Christianity and toward Wicca.

 

What would you do in this situation?

 

I agree that coming down hard or lecturing will drive him away. I'd do my best to live my beliefs - showing their power through my life.

 

 

:grouphug:

[pqr]

a pentagram necklace for Christmas.

 

 

Now that is a true mix of beliefs :-)

[CLHCO]

I agree that coming down hard is never the right way to handle it. Eventually, he must own his own beliefs.

 

I would strongly suggest you do some cross examination of both. Let him read the books about Wicca. He picks those books, you offer to read them as well. Then you pick a couple books from a Christian perspective, starting with basic apologetics of why you believe it is true from different angles, then moving to those that contrast it with Wicca only after you have a ground work built for the Christian faith to begin with.

 

I'm not a fan of Lee Strobel's books, myself, but he does have some good youth ones out there that my daughters enjoyed at one point.

[Jenn in Mo]

There is an awesome book called What's the Deal With Wicca that I found very informative as a youth leader. It may even be something your son would be interested in reading as well.

 

From what I gathered from it, explaining your beliefs as a new wiccan could be very difficult to do because it is a personalized, create-your-own type religion. He could still be establishing his beliefs. OR, upon closer examination, he could have come to the conclusion it was bunk.

 

Bathe it in prayer, sister. I'll be praying with you. And never for a moment forget that "...we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12.

 

No, you cannot control his choices, but you can accomplish much. It is not time to wait and watch. It's time to pray and approach it with wisdom, which it sounds like you are doing.:grouphug:

[emeraldjoy]

Mostly I just want to commend you on what you have already done and the principles you believe in and live by. Your level of acceptance, kindness, and wisdom is evident in your post and I pray to understand the importance of those principles when my children are of that age.

 

I was that child and the harsher and angrier my parents became, the more I rebelled. I found myself in dangerous situations that I needed rescued from, but could not turn to my parents out of fear of them and their church and their "God". Eventually I became an IV drug user (please noone think that I am likening the Wiccan religion to IV drug use; it is not my point here at all!) and they had no idea; I was gone...long gone and had absolutley no contact with them for several years; I was 16. They are good people and only did what they knew to do at the time and I know I broke their hearts but I was angry and confused and wanted nothing to do with them or thier "GOD". Mostly, I did not want a God that was not loving and understanding; in my heart I knew he was but "on paper" I just didn't see it; very confusing.

 

Anyway, I didn't mean for this post to go in this way. What I mostly wanted to say is that you are already doing everything right it sounds like. Just remember that God is bigger than anything, right? Sounds so simple but true. He love your child more than you do; his ways are perfect; that is all you need to trust at this point; trust your child to HIM.

 

Blessings to your on this journey.

 

P.S. What they did right, I believe, is pray for me daily. I know it kept me alive during many dark nights and kept His presence closeby.

 

e

[JennifersLost]

If I looked at this from the opposite point of view - what if one of my kids got really interested in Christianity - I would be inclined to let it alone. Teens are especially interested in the "other"; what's different than their parents. It's part of defining themselves as separate individuals. If you are a Christian family and that's a large part of the makeup of your family without being a "manipulative" part of your family's makeup, then he's bound to return to it, you know?

 

If any of my kids got interested in a different religion (or any religion for that matter), I'd point them to the library and tell them to buy their own cross, ankh, whatever, LOL....a teen that's capable of deciding what they believe in is also capable of funding those beliefs, right?

 

He's figuring it all out, right? And honestly, if the whole friend's family practices it, I bet it's a pretty tame version of wicca, you know? And what you'd probably find (as with most religions) that if you substitute a few words and actions the "meaning" of it all is pretty similar to Christianity...giving thanks, praising the glory of the universe/creation, being kind to others, and so on and so on. I think wicca tends to attract people who are more grounded in cycles and like their worship to reflect what they "see" whereas Christians like something a little more ethereal, if that makes sense. Maybe discussing with your son how similar the different religions are will diffuse some of the tension of him experimenting with being different.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[pqr]

what you'd probably find (as with most religions) that if you substitute a few words and actions the "meaning" of it all is pretty similar to Christianity...giving thanks, praising the glory of the universe/creation, being kind to others, and so on and so on.

 

 

 

I do not normally get into religious debates, because it is quite simply personal, but your comment was extremely insulting. Belief in Jesus Christ does not boil down to a "few words and actions" nor is the meaning of Christianity defined by those "few words and actions".

 

I would assume that Moslems might feel the same way if being compared to Wiccans.

Edited October 4, 2008 by pqr

[mom2abcd]

Bathe it in prayer, sister. I'll be praying with you. And never for a moment forget that "...we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12.

 

No, you cannot control his choices, but you can accomplish much. It is not time to wait and watch. It's time to pray and approach it with wisdom, which it sounds like you are doing.:grouphug:

 

 

Jenn makes some wise points.

 

Being a parent is tough. Fourteen year olds are growing in independence, but they are still our kids. And it's our responsibility to protect them. I would take this opportunity to give your son some one-on-one attention and read the Word with him, go over some things you learn from books written from a Christian perspective such as the one Jenn mentions or Generation Hex by Marla Alupoaicei & Dillon Burroughs.

 

3 John 1:4 says, "I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in Truth."

 

This is our prayer and our goal. Pray, pray, pray, dear sister, and enlist other prayer warriors in praying for your sons and all young Christians. Pray for his friend. We can't control our kids' spirtual beliefs, but we can help guide them. And we can tap into a greater power than our own:o)

 

If your ds is maybe looking for some "uniqueness" as a triplet, I'd suggest finding it in clothing, hair or rooom styles. Spiritual issues are SO important.

 

Hang in there!

[Harriet Vane]

I like the idea of allowing the research, with the following conditions:

 

You will read whatever books he reads, and the two of you will discuss. Make sure you discuss fairly--if he detects a whiff of unfair bias, he will shut down and not discuss anymore.

 

Also, his research of Wicca needs to be balanced by careful research of the Bible.

 

Pray.

[Audrey]

It might be helpful to know that there is a sect of Wicca called Christian Wicca which synchronizes the two.

 

Here is a link to the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Wicca

[HRAAB]

I have a dd who is leaning towards Paganism. This has been the hardest struggle I've had to deal with. I know that outright condemnation and arguing and controlling will drive her away. My dh's family is a prime example of what that can lead to - most of them of completely left their faith behind, and couldn't wait to do so. I know I can still physically make her attend church with us (she's 17), but I cannot control her heart.

 

I believe God gave us free will, to freely accept Him or to reject Him. We did what we thought was best at the time (in retrospect I can see mistakes), we live our faith in our home, we have tried to pass on our beliefs to her, but I've had to recognize and respect her freedom to choose or to not choose. She is not me. I've allowed her to read on Pagnism and other religions, but I've asked her to read Christian writings at the same time. She has done that. She goes to church with us when she is at home (she often works on Sundays), but I would not force the issue at this point. In less than a year she'll be 18. I've tried to keep communication open; she is free to say I don't believe that, it doesn't make sense, etc., and I will not condemn her for that, but I tell her what I believe and offer a defense of what I believe.

 

In the end, I've had to place her in the arms of Jesus and trust her to Him and prayer. Meanwhile, my dh and I continue to live our faith as openly as we've always done and always try to set the right example (albeit we fail more often than I care to admit). Most of all, I try to remember to let her know I love her and I'm always there for her. And quitely my heart breaks.

 

You're not alone. There are many parents that are going through this. Maybe for your son it's not too serious at this point, just a passing interest. I think you're handling this the right way. I'll keep you and your son in my prayers.

 

Janet

[Pam "SFSOM" in TN]

I do not normally get into religious debates, because it is quite simply personal, but your comment was extremely insulting. Belief in Jesus Christ does not boil down to a "few words and actions" nor is the meaning of Christianity defined by those "few words and actions".

 

I would assume that Moslems might feel the same way if being compared to Wiccans.

 

You are honestly insulted about how a nonbeliever describes her understanding of Christian belief? Really?

 

How about some salt and light and prayer for those who wander in darkness that they see a Great Light rather than being all indignant and insulted? Or is that a skewed view of what's supposed to be the believer's response to the unbeliever? If we don't see Christianity the way you say we should at any given time, you get insulted by that?

 

That makes zero sense to me. And your being offended draws unbelievers to Christ how, exactly? Or isn't that your ultimate goal here on earth? (If not, I apologize for my misunderstanding.)

[Mama Lynx]

I do not normally get into religious debates, because it is quite simply personal, but your comment was extremely insulting. Belief in Jesus Christ does not boil down to a "few words and actions" nor is the meaning of Christianity defined by those "few words and actions".

 

I would assume that Moslems might feel the same way if being compared to Wiccans.

 

I think what Jennifer is saying is that all or nearly all religions have a set of actions/beliefs in common, such as praising creation/the creator, being good to other people, giving thanks, etc. I think she thought it might help the OP to focus on what commonalities there are. If you are familiar with Jennifer's posts, I think it's pretty clear that she meant no insult. She did not at all say that Christianity is boiled down to those things.

 

To the OP: Kudos to you for the way you have handled the situation so far. My advice would be to continue as you are going. Allow your child to read, to think, and to search his heart. Meanwhile, do what you always do - follow your faith, express your faith to him not as a judgment but as the truth of your heart. He might choose differently than you - but he probably won't. And even if he chooses differently now, that doesn't mean forever. Love him, pray for him, talk to him, look at the good in him, and forgive him when it's needed.

 

Like Jennifer, I come at this from the opposite perspective - what if one of my kids wanted to become Christian? If one did, I would support him, providing that his Christianity did not turn into disrespect for the beliefs of his parents.

 

I have been Wiccan, and my kids have been raised kind of sort of Wiccan, so feel free to PM me if you have questions.

[Plaid Dad]

If you're reading and discussing books together, you might want to look into Ronald Hutton's The Triumph of the Moon. It is a historical appraisal of the origins of Wicca as a new religion and a healthy corrective to many of the myths of origin you'll find in popular books on Wicca.

[Jenny in Atl]

I do not normally get into religious debates, because it is quite simply personal, but your comment was extremely insulting. Belief in Jesus Christ does not boil down to a "few words and actions" nor is the meaning of Christianity defined by those "few words and actions".

 

I would assume that Moslems might feel the same way if being compared to Wiccans.

 

I find few of faith who like to be compared with another's faith. Your reaction is nothing new.

[Rosie_0801]

I follow my own personal religion so I have no particular designs for my kid's eventual spiritual beliefs. With that in mind, I think the important and responsible thing for you to do is to travel far enough with him on this journey of self discovery, to ensure he is thinking things through properly. My dh thinks I'm nuts, to a degree, because of my beliefs. However he can respect them because they are clearly thought out and I know what I believe. He has no time for people who can't explain their own belief system. So, if you can't be comfortable with your son's beliefs, or exploration of, you could at least be certain he's examined it all properly. You'll know because you've been there with him.

:)

Rosie

[pqr]

You are honestly insulted about how a nonbeliever describes her understanding of Christian belief? Really?

 

How about some salt and light and prayer for those who wander in darkness that they see a Great Light rather than being all indignant and insulted? Or is that a skewed view of what's supposed to be the believer's response to the unbeliever? If we don't see Christianity the way you say we should at any given time, you get insulted by that?

 

That makes zero sense to me. And your being offended draws unbelievers to Christ how, exactly? Or isn't that your ultimate goal here on earth? (If not, I apologize for my misunderstanding.)

 

Yes I am, when told that what I may or may not believe is little different from Wicca, I do find it insulting. You may not and that is fine, I do.

 

Whatever one's views, Wicca is a polytheistic religion that is far removed from Christianity.

 

Anyway I will not be dragged into a religious debate. It is personal and rarely results in anything.

Edited October 4, 2008 by pqr

[Parrothead]

It might be helpful to know that there is a sect of Wicca called Christian Wicca which synchronizes the two.

 

Here is a link to the wikipedia article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Wicca

 

OMG! I think I finally have a definition of what I believe! I have got to look more into this. The guilt for years has been overwhelming. Wow. Thanks Audrey for posting this.

 

PS. Sorry to hijack the thread.

[Erica in PA]

I can't say what would work best for you, because every family is different. I can tell you that I would take this very seriously, if this were to happen in our family. How would you respond if your son was good friends with someone who used drugs, and your son started using them as well? To me as a Christian, this would be just as dangerous a situation. So if it were me, in both cases, I would seriously limit the time spent with that person, because of the great danger to my son (one physical, the other spiritual, which again, for me as a Christian is just as real and just as harmful.) How I would set these limits without alienating my child, I really don't know. Lots of prayer for one. I would hope that my dc would respect my husband and me enough to engage in conversations with us, and accept our guidance and wisdom that this is dangerous for him.

 

It's great to have friendships with others of different faiths, but if my child were struggling with his faith to the point of abandoning it, I would have to evaluate whether the risk to his spiritual life was worth the friendship.

 

Like I said, everyone is different, and I can't say what would be best in your case. But I guess I wanted to throw out there that if you do feel that taking a firmer stand would be in your son's best interests, there are others who would choose that path as well.

 

Erica

[Jean in Wisc]

There are things that belong to other religions that I think we as Christians have lost or have shoved aside for many reasons. Let me give you some examples:

 

I love the night sky. I love the celebration of the seasons. I would like to share my delight in knowing that this is equinox or solstice by adding this to the days of the years that are special. But if I have this type of celebration, I will have people question me whether this is "appropriate" because these are Wiccan holidays, and we certainly would not want to be mimicking their religious practices. (Jean wrinkles her nose up here.)

 

I think that there are times in our search for Bible-believing faith, we have lost the mystery of God that is in his creation. We have science to explain all that we know about nature, and we have not allowed ourselves to see nature as a mystery--a step into the mystical (Webster's Dict: inducing a feeling of awe or wonder)--of the leaves turning red and orange, of the red in the sunset, of the movement of the stars across the skies, of the animals sleeping in their dens, of whisper of the wind. Years ago, these things were worshiped; they were not scientifically understood. In our desire to flee from superstitions we have erased the good and the playful, we've dropped the celebration of life, the beauty of creation.

 

Well, if you are following this line of thinking and if I am making my thoughts clear, perhaps this MIGHT be some of what is drawing your son to Wiccan beliefs--is there something that his friend's family is doing/celebrating/sharing that is "missing" in your home and faith that might just be a basic yearning in his soul?

 

I weary of the cut-and-dried faith of many around me. They seem to have a formula that explains faith, forgiveness, the cross, and the end times. Nature is studied and dissected scientifically. Yes, the trees may not be spirits, but why are they not vibrant life that gives us clues to The One Who Made Them? Why can't we walk into the woods and listen to the wind in hopes to "hear" the breath of God?

 

OTOH, perhaps this has nothing to do with your son. I just saw what you had written and decided this would be a good forum to put my thoughts into print.

 

FWIW,

Jean (who wishes that her spell check had not disappeared when she moved from Mozilla to Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Edited October 5, 2008 by Jean in Wisc

[Caroline]

Jean, I totally agree with what you said. I love the mystery that is creation.

[Carol in Cal.]

so that you know what kind of attitudes it espouses.

 

I can't say that I have done this very recently, but my recollection is that the reading I did on this about 15 years ago focussed a lot on defining wicca in opposition/contrast to Christianity, and characterized Christianity in ways that I thought were largely wrong but that casual Christians might not notice. The contrasts I remember were: 1. Christianity has a distant God; while the Goddess is in everything. 2. Christianity despises women, while Goddess religions empower women. 3. Christianity destroys nature while Wicca preserves it.

 

1. I thought this was ridiculous. God is everywhere. He created the world and everything in it, and He lives in our hearts. He can hear our thoughts--He's that close.

2. I had read way too much about how Christianity originally appealed so much to women and slaves that the Romans despised to believe this one. And anyway, I don't think that ritualizing s*x is freeing to women, particularly. It seems to always work out as more freeing to men.

3. Christianity puts people in charge of stewarding the earth for the Creator. If you read biographies of scientists, you see that many of the most notable early modern scientists studied science because of their conviction that God created a marvelous, ordered system; and they admired and praised Him for it more and more as they discovered more and more. Also, if you ever had had the opportunity to go hiking with my grandfather, a very Godly, Christian man, you would have heard him say at the sight of one or more amazing natural views, "How could anyone be an atheist?" He was deeply certain that the beauties of nature showed the glory of God, and that they should be loved and preserved because of that.

 

So, having said this, you really can't quote me on this to your DS. You have to read about it yourself and form your own impressions of it. If it's really important to your DS, you have to honor his struggle by taking it seriously enough to study it firsthand--or he won't respect your secondhand opinions.

 

I agree with Erica that I would regard this as a danger to my child. I read the linked article on the 'Christian Wicca' and found it to be syncretistic to the highest degree. No consolation there for me.

 

I am so sorry that you're going through this.

[Jackie in AR]

I would consider taking him (and the rest of your dc) through a worldview course.

 

He's not too young to be thinking about the big questions of life:

(1) Where did everything come from?

(2) What is the meaning of life?

(3) What is right and wrong, and who determines it?

(4) What happens when we die?

 

Dh and I are currently going through the Lightbearers curriculum (published by Summit Ministries) with our 13yo boys. Actually, when we mentioned that we would be doing that this year, some of our friends asked us to include their children, so we currently have 12 students with whom we're hashing out these issues.

 

He needs to know why he believes what he does. Or why he doesn't believe something.

 

Ultimately, we all have to answer these questions for ourselves, and I believe the teenage years are prime for prompting our dc to think about them, or at least be aware that these are the important questions that must be answered when they are determining their beliefs.

 

This may turn out to be a wonderful opportunity for you to show your ds that, although he must determine these answers for himself, you are ready and willing to guide him through the process.

 

((Hugs)) to you, RC.

Edited October 4, 2008 by Jackie in AR

[percytruffle]

Jean, this is beautiful. There is such truth in what you've shared. Thank you for putting these thoughts into words for us to ponder.

 

In our fervor to hold true to our faith we have lumped celebration and worship together needlessly. We should be celebrating the awe and majesty of the Creator's handiwork more often. I have always felt most deeply in touch with God as I walk in the woods, gaze at the heavens, or stand at the edge of the sea.

[Alenee]

I think two others have stated this so I just want to give an :iagree:. Read together about Wicca but at the same time, read what the bible says about Who God is and why He says in His Word what He does. It seems perfectly normal to me that he would be questioning his faith at this time so another :iagree: to a worldview class. In your studies though, I would begin with the bible, then compare with Wicca, not the other way around.

[ChristusG]

I can't say what would work best for you, because every family is different. I can tell you that I would take this very seriously, if this were to happen in our family. How would you respond if your son was good friends with someone who used drugs, and your son started using them as well? To me as a Christian, this would be just as dangerous a situation. So if it were me, in both cases, I would seriously limit the time spent with that person, because of the great danger to my son (one physical, the other spiritual, which again, for me as a Christian is just as real and just as harmful.) How I would set these limits without alienating my child, I really don't know. Lots of prayer for one. I would hope that my dc would respect my husband and me enough to engage in conversations with us, and accept our guidance and wisdom that this is dangerous for him.

 

It's great to have friendships with others of different faiths, but if my child were struggling with his faith to the point of abandoning it, I would have to evaluate whether the risk to his spiritual life was worth the friendship.

 

Like I said, everyone is different, and I can't say what would be best in your case. But I guess I wanted to throw out there that if you do feel that taking a firmer stand would be in your son's best interests, there are others who would choose that path as well.

 

Erica

 

I completely agree with everything you said. This would be extremely serious in our family. I mean, this is WHY I homeschool. While I believe that teaching math and reading and everything else is highly important, I want my children to learn first and foremost about Jesus Christ and I want to instill this in all that they learn and do. I cannot say what I would do because that is something that only the person in that particular situation with that particular child can handle, but like Erica said, it would take a lot of being on your knees in prayer.

 

Nothing against other religions....I want my child to be friendly and accept everyone, as Jesus did/does.....but I also want them to stand strong in the faith that they were raised with.

[Jenny in Atl]

There are things that belong to other religions that I think we as Christians have lost or have shoved aside for many reasons. Let me give you some examples:

 

I love the night sky. I love the celebration of the seasons. I would like to share my delight in knowing that this is equinox or solstice by adding this to the days of the years that are special. But if I have this type of celebration, I will have people question me whether this is "appropriate" because these are Wiccan holidays, and we certainly would not want to be mimicking their religious practices. (Jean wrinkles her nose up here.)

 

I think that there are times in our search for Bible-believing faith, we have lost the mystery of God that is in his creation. We have science to explain all that we know about nature, and we have not allowed ourselves to see nature as a mystery--a step into the mystical (Webster's Dict: inducing a feeling of awe or wonder)--of the leaves turning red and orange, of the red in the sunset, of the movement of the stars across the skies, of the animals sleeping in their dens, of whisper of the wind. Years ago, these things were worshiped; they were not scientifically understood. In our desire to flee from supersticions we have erased the good and the playful, we've dropped the celebration of life, the beauty of creation.

 

Well, if you are following this line of thinking and if I am making my thoughts clear, perhaps this MIGHT be some of what is drawing your son to Wiccan beliefs--is there something that his friend's family is doing/celebrating/sharing that is "missing" in your home and faith that might just be a basic yearning in his soul?

 

I weary of the cut-and-dried faith of many around me. They seem to have a formula that explains faith, forgiveness, the cross, and the end times. Nature is studied and dissected scientifically. Yes, the trees may not be spirits, but why are they not vibrant life that gives us clues to The One Who Made Them? Why can't we walk into the woods and listen to the wind in hopes to "hear" the breath of him who made them?

 

OTOH, perhaps this has nothing to do with your son. I just saw what you had written and decided this would be a good forum to put my thoughts into print.

 

FWIW,

Jean (who wishes that her spell check had not disappeared when she moved from Mozilla to Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

Jean, this is beautiful. There is such truth in what you've shared. Thank you for putting these thoughts into words for us to ponder.

 

In our fervor to hold true to our faith we have lumped celebration and worship together needlessly. We should be celebrating the awe and majesty of the Creator's handiwork more often. I have always felt most deeply in touch with God as I walk in the woods, gaze at the heavens, or stand at the edge of the sea.

 

Beautifully said!

[Jackie in AR]

What a lovely post, Jean!

 

It brings to mind this verse:

 

Romans 1:20 (New American Standard Bible)

 

"For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse."

 

He is revealed through His creation!

[HRAAB]

There are things that belong to other religions that I think we as Christians have lost or have shoved aside for many reasons. Let me give you some examples:

 

I love the night sky. I love the celebration of the seasons. I would like to share my delight in knowing that this is equinox or solstice by adding this to the days of the years that are special. But if I have this type of celebration, I will have people question me whether this is "appropriate" because these are Wiccan holidays, and we certainly would not want to be mimicking their religious practices. (Jean wrinkles her nose up here.)

 

I think that there are times in our search for Bible-believing faith, we have lost the mystery of God that is in his creation. We have science to explain all that we know about nature, and we have not allowed ourselves to see nature as a mystery--a step into the mystical (Webster's Dict: inducing a feeling of awe or wonder)--of the leaves turning red and orange, of the red in the sunset, of the movement of the stars across the skies, of the animals sleeping in their dens, of whisper of the wind. Years ago, these things were worshiped; they were not scientifically understood. In our desire to flee from supersticions we have erased the good and the playful, we've dropped the celebration of life, the beauty of creation.

 

Well, if you are following this line of thinking and if I am making my thoughts clear, perhaps this MIGHT be some of what is drawing your son to Wiccan beliefs--is there something that his friend's family is doing/celebrating/sharing that is "missing" in your home and faith that might just be a basic yearning in his soul?

 

I weary of the cut-and-dried faith of many around me. They seem to have a formula that explains faith, forgiveness, the cross, and the end times. Nature is studied and dissected scientifically. Yes, the trees may not be spirits, but why are they not vibrant life that gives us clues to The One Who Made Them? Why can't we walk into the woods and listen to the wind in hopes to "hear" the breath of God?

 

OTOH, perhaps this has nothing to do with your son. I just saw what you had written and decided this would be a good forum to put my thoughts into print.

 

FWIW,

Jean (who wishes that her spell check had not disappeared when she moved from Mozilla to Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

This is beautiful.

 

Janet

[WTMCassandra]

There's a lot of wisdom here, especially in Jean's reply most of all, I think. I have only one thing to add. A wise friend once told me, "When they get to be teenagers, the most key thing to remember is not to freak out." I think that applies here. While I agree that this is very serious, I do NOT recommend freaking out in front of your son. I would second the ideas of a worldview course that includes Wicca, comparing the Bible to Wicca, reading about Wicca WITH your teen and discussing it, etc. What does he find attractive about it? Why?

 

Really think it through with him one step at a time, trying your best to act calm. If you need to freak out, do it behind closed doors ; ). Sometimes I think teens are thrown toward things when their parents freak out about them, and you don't want to create a "forbidden fruit" situation.

 

I remember when I did youth work years ago that I had a young person in my small group at a retreat. He was a pastor's son and I had just met him that weekend. He told our small group that he was an atheist. He looked right at me when he said it. I had this instinct that I must remain calm, and I did (easier when it's not your own child!). He seemed astonished that I remained calm, I think, and listened to me very attentively the rest of the weekend.

 

I'm NOT saying that shock is your son's motivation. But I AM saying there is some kind of dynamic about teenagers-parents-freaking-out that often comes into play, and I don't think it's a good idea to give in to the temptation to "go there."

 

So, discuss, stay calm ; ), pray.

[Donna T.]

Well, speaking as one who has actually seen Lucifer face to face, I'd recommend some very serious fasting and praying in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that He would deliver this precious son from the lure of darkness. Lucifer will devour. Doubt it not. From my experience, Jesus is the Only One Who can provide a way of escape.

 

I'll be in deep prayer for you as you seek wisdom to help your son through this.

 

Many blessings,

Edited October 5, 2008 by Donna T.

[HRAAB]

Well, speaking as one who has actually seen Lucifer face to face, I'd recommend some very serious fasting and praying in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that He would deliver this precious son from the lure of darkness. Lucifer will devour. Doubt it not. From my experience, Jesus is the Only One Who can provide a way of escape.

 

I'll be in deep prayer for you as you seek wisdom to help your son through this.

 

Many blessings,

 

I'm probably going to regret asking this, but I can't help myself. Are you saying Wiccans are of Satan?

 

Janet

[laylamcb]

There are things that belong to other religions that I think we as Christians have lost or have shoved aside for many reasons. Let me give you some examples:

 

I love the night sky. I love the celebration of the seasons. I would like to share my delight in knowing that this is equinox or solstice by adding this to the days of the years that are special. But if I have this type of celebration, I will have people question me whether this is "appropriate" because these are Wiccan holidays, and we certainly would not want to be mimicking their religious practices. (Jean wrinkles her nose up here.)

 

I think that there are times in our search for Bible-believing faith, we have lost the mystery of God that is in his creation. We have science to explain all that we know about nature, and we have not allowed ourselves to see nature as a mystery--a step into the mystical (Webster's Dict: inducing a feeling of awe or wonder)--of the leaves turning red and orange, of the red in the sunset, of the movement of the stars across the skies, of the animals sleeping in their dens, of whisper of the wind. Years ago, these things were worshiped; they were not scientifically understood. In our desire to flee from superstitions we have erased the good and the playful, we've dropped the celebration of life, the beauty of creation.

 

Well, if you are following this line of thinking and if I am making my thoughts clear, perhaps this MIGHT be some of what is drawing your son to Wiccan beliefs--is there something that his friend's family is doing/celebrating/sharing that is "missing" in your home and faith that might just be a basic yearning in his soul?

 

I weary of the cut-and-dried faith of many around me. They seem to have a formula that explains faith, forgiveness, the cross, and the end times. Nature is studied and dissected scientifically. Yes, the trees may not be spirits, but why are they not vibrant life that gives us clues to The One Who Made Them? Why can't we walk into the woods and listen to the wind in hopes to "hear" the breath of God?

 

OTOH, perhaps this has nothing to do with your son. I just saw what you had written and decided this would be a good forum to put my thoughts into print.

 

FWIW,

Jean (who wishes that her spell check had not disappeared when she moved from Mozilla to Internet Explorer!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

 

:iagree: Hugs to you for your eloquence, Jean. :001_smile:

[Chris in VA]

Just fyi, there's a lot of untruth in that Wiki article. It does make fascinating reading.

[tibbyl]

Also, if you ever had had the opportunity to go hiking with my grandfather, a very Godly, Christian man, you would have heard him say at the sight of one or more amazing natural views, "How could anyone be an atheist?" He was deeply certain that the beauties of nature showed the glory of God, and that they should be loved and preserved because of that.

 

It is quite possible to both be an atheist and to be in awe and admiration of the beauty and mystery of nature.

[tibbyl]

Well, speaking as one who has actually seen Lucifer face to face, I'd recommend some very serious fasting and praying in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that He would deliver this precious son from the lure of darkness. Lucifer will devour. Doubt it not. From my experience, Jesus is the Only One Who can provide a way of escape.

 

I'll be in deep prayer for you as you seek wisdom to help your son through this.

 

Many blessings,

 

I may regret asking this, Donna, but honestly you are the first person I have encountered who claims to have laid eyes upon Lucifer. Are you comfortable sharing more about the circumstances of your experience with us? If not, I certainly understand, and I will not refute your statements.

[WTMCassandra]

I'd recommend some very serious fasting and praying in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ that He would deliver this precious son from the lure of darkness.

 

(Gently) I don't disagree that she should fast and pray, but my point is that there is nothing gained by freaking out *in front of her son.*

[Guest janainaz]

My 14 year old DS has a friend whose family practices Wicca. He is very interested in it and told DH and I last night that he has decided to be a Wiccan. I don't know if this is meaningful, but he was talking about his god being referred to as "the lord and the lady".

 

We are a Christian family. We had a talk with DS about this last night, when he approached us for the first time about it, and asked him some questions which upset him a lot. We basically cross-examined him about his beliefs.

 

Anyway, this afternoon he says he thought about it and has decided not to become a Wiccan. I have no idea whether this is true -- he could be appeasing me. He said he no longer wants a pentagram necklace for Christmas.

 

He is still interested in Wicca and would like to read some books about it. I don't object to this in that I read a whole bunch of books about Wicca when I was a teen because it was an interesting subject. Those books did not sway my spiritual beliefs in the least.

 

BUT this is my son. How do I know that he won't be further swayed by reading similar books? I feel like letting him read books about Wicca is the right thing to do. I don't like not being in control of his beliefs. OTOH, who does control the beliefs of their children? Even the Amish have a significant number of children who decline to join their church when they become adults.

 

I am pretty sure that if I come down extra hard on my son about this that it will drive him away from Christianity and toward Wicca. I will not ban him from his friendship because I do not want my children to grow up and reject people who do not fit into our belief system (except for witnessing to them). I also have no intention of taking him to talk with a pastor about this.

 

What would you do in this situation?

 

You are a wise lady! This is what I have to say: I have said before and this not whining (we all have had our bad life experiences), but I had a horrible childhood/early adult hood and was exposed to all kinds of things and my deep belief is that when you are a child of God, you are from the time you are formed by God. I truly believe that the more someone who IS a child of God is exposed to the lies, it grounds them ever so deeper in the truth. I can not say I would be thrilled, I can't say I would not be concerned about my kids getting into that, but I do think if you approach it in a way where you are not trying to be controlling, that you have a much better chance of subtley asking HIM questions that expose the lies and holes. My son is only 8.5, he's a deep kid and even at this age I tell him, "I don't want you to believe what Dad and I believe because we are telling you to. I want you to believe what you believe because you believe it is truth.". God is a BIG God and is very present in the lives of his children. There are kids that are so over-controlled and parents that live in fear of their kids EVER being exposed to other faiths that they end up walking away from Christianity altogether. I think it is very dangerous. I am so tired of people exalting the enemy (wether it be through books, other faiths or society in general). We hold the power through the Holy Spirit and it must never be forgotten. I have exposed my kids to other faiths, I have pointed out the good in them, the similiarities and the things I believe point in another direction from God. But, it also teaches them to respect other people, their beliefs and to love - seeing the best in people. I would personally do whatever it takes to keep your son close, because then you have the opportunity to shine a little light. Jesus asked a lot of questions and it's a powerful tool.

 

I also have to edit to add, I did not think about Wiccans reading this - I really know nothing about that faith (need to find out more), so I was not necessarily calling their beliefs "lies". I do not claim to have God all figured out and am a Christian who thinks outside the box and I question constantly what I read and what I know or what i think I know.

Edited October 5, 2008 by janainaz

[CLHCO]

There are things that belong to other religions that I think we as Christians have lost or have shoved aside for many reasons. Let me give you some examples:

 

As one who has jumped head first into many worldview classes and books, who loves the meaty doctrine studies and history, I must give an applause to this post. There have been times when I have just desired to sit back and do exactly what you have expressed here. I have read a few old books about the joy of walking in the presence of the Lord at all times, in constant fellowship, and seeing Him in everything. I long for it, I grab it now and then, and it fades. I hear this too is a discipline though and takes time to cultivate. It's so easy for some of us to get caught up in our mundane world.

 

One doesn't need to have either/or. I believe both are the best experience. Who knows? Perhaps there is something amazing the OP's child is looking for?

[Anne Rittenhouse]

Margo Adler's "Drawing Down the Moon" is another book that gives the historical development of the Neo Pagan movement.

[Anne Rittenhouse]

=He is still interested in Wicca and would like to read some books about it. I don't object to this in that I read a whole bunch of books about Wicca when I was a teen because it was an interesting subject. Those books did not sway my spiritual beliefs in the least.

 

 

Why not share one or two of those books you read as a teenager? Nothing turns my teen off faster than something his mom knows something about. :D

[RoughCollie]

Thank you all for your advice. I will check out the books you recommended. It is a great idea for both DS and me to read the books and discuss them, along with some Christian books. I think we will go straight to C. S. Lewis for that part of the discussion.

 

DS has decided that he still wants a pentagram necklace for Christmas because he likes the way it looks. I told him that I don't feel comfortable with buying one for him and that he will have to earn the money to get it for himself.

 

He says he has decided to be a Christian again and I suppose time will tell. I do know that he has always tried hard to be different from the other kids in the family. The boys didn't know they were triplets until they went to first grade, so I don't think it is because he was treated like a triplet because my boys were never treated as one unit. I was always diligent about that because I knew so many parents who spoke of and treated their multiples as one unit instead of as individual people.

 

That said, he did call DH by his first name and wear his underwear backwards for a long time and when he got older he told me it was so he wouldn't be like his siblings. He wanted to be different.

 

Now his brothers are very upset with him about his dabbling in Wicca. One of them is an atheist and the other is a staunch Christian. This dynamic plays out pretty often. DS2 will do or decide something and his brothers will jump on him about it. It is as though DS2 does this in order to get a rise out of his brothers. Then when they have their say, it cements the desire in DS2 to continue on his individual path.

 

I don't know quite what to make of this. I've had many talks with DS1 and DS3, with DS2, and with all of them together, and it seems to go in one ear and out the other.

 

One thing that was interesting was DS2's reply when I asked him what he liked about Wicca. Everything he told me is also present in Christianity, so I asked him what the purpose of changing to Wicca would be if that is so. He was *shocked* that I knew anything about Wicca!

 

Of all my children, DS2 is the most challenging, that's for sure. We are the only ones in the family who are INFPs (personality type), so I understand where he is coming from better than anyone else (so far) and I'm glad that he has me to talk to about this stuff.

 

He told me last night that he is learning to meditate. He's a rookie, he said, and talked to me about some of what he has learned in detail. Another shocker for him: I know how to meditate and I do it often.

 

I think he is lonely for people who grok him. Right now, he has just me, but I know he will meet others along the path who grok him, too. I have, and it is a pretty rare and wonderful experience.

 

It's funny how all his life, DS2 has put out a feeler, only to find that I know what he is talking about. Yet for each new thing that comes up, he is surprised that I understand where he is coming from. I figure he has me in the Mom box ... and each time it happens, he realizes anew that I am a person, not just a Mom.

 

Thank you again for your help. I appreciate it very much.

 

RC

Edited October 5, 2008 by RoughCollie

[Chris in VA]

I have to ask--what does grok mean?

Cute word!:D

[Melinda in VT]

I have to ask--what does grok mean?

Cute word!:D

 

I just asked DH the same thing and he said it means "to understand" and comes from Robert Heinlein.

[RoughCollie]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grok

 

It was first used and invented by Robert A. Heinlein in his (wonderful) book, Stranger in a Strange Land.

 

I think of it as being like a Venn diagram -- the area in which the two circles overlap (representing 2 people) is where they grok something. It is more than understanding -- it is intuitive, kind of, like occupying the same space with all of your Self.

 

RC

Edited October 5, 2008 by RoughCollie

[ma23peas]

Rough collie,

 

I haven't read out all the posts, but I hope to offer you some perspective...

 

Ultimately, the decision to accept Christ and choose to follow Him is your child's. I think we as parents, however, can do everything in our power to reflect our own personal relationship with God in a very clear and present manner. I read your post, trying to wonder if my children one day would have that response...at this point I would be leaning on the side of no...let me tell you why..my children heartfully and often (atleast 4-5x a week) will make a comment or ask me to help them pray for this or that...they still are not at that point where I see them daily on their own doing a devotional, but I see them speaking to God and it's becoming more and more natural for them...what has our family done?

 

Some of these things will sound silly, but I'm just listing the ones that have had the most impact.

 

1. When they were young we went through 20 4-CD sets of Adventures in Odyssey...heck it even strengthened my own faith...but with media and programming today, the kids are barraged with 'good' families that are either witches, have no mention of God in their functioning family, or worse, they present a egocentric view of life. These CD's we listened to on the way to the store, vacations, they begged for them and we all began to see that the characters were just as flawed as us but that they RELIED on God..it really helped encourage us..your boys may be too old for these, but my 13 year old still loves to listen to them..and I loved them.

 

2. We read the Bible as a family at breakfast each morning...this is really more recent as having younger children we never seemed to all be at the table...one in the floor, one sleeping in...etc. but my kids are 9-13 now and I was inspired by Corrie Ten Boom's relating how her father always read the Bible..my children are the first to put the Bible on the table at 6:45 in the morning (we also made a pact that we'd get up earlier to make sure we had breakfast together because dh is working 2 jobs (2 mortgages) and dinner together is almost impossible. Then we discuss the Bible...with your boys you might have to make a rule that you discuss it from the heart and out of respect, because an atheist is likely to want to poke holes..but you will lovingly take his thoughts but also guide him if you notice him becoming antagonistic..your home is a Christian home and if he lives with you he must live by your rules..he doesn't have to agree with the Bible reading, but out of respect for your faith, he should be willing to listen...think back, how many times have you read the Bible together as a family? It is the best gift given to us outside Christ's sacrifice...but yet, we'll turn to a newly published book for guidance and not to the Bible?

 

3. Take every bad flaw in yourself and claim it...when I am too short with the kids or out of line..or I gossip on the phone...or I get upset at a driver on the road..I take that time to tell my kids, "Hey, I was wrong, I need to ask forgiveness of you for acting this way..." Hide those scriptures in your heart...many a time when my kids are arguing or putting their selfish side first above the love for one another, I'll pull out verses (Ephesians 4:32, Romans 12:10 etc.)...and I'll AGREE with them that it is HARD to be like Christ, but because it's hard, should we just not try? Maybe now is a time for your kids to watch "A passion for Christ"..do it as a family....but pre empt it with your concern for your family, your failings as a parent to show them God's mercy and grace..because if they truly understood God's mercy and grace, there would be no denying it..There's that verse, raise your children up in the way they should go...we have TOO many forces around us that are pulling our kids away, our Christian homes should be a safe haven of encouragement and diligence....

 

4. We pray at EVERY meal, at McDonald's, at Subway, at breakfast, at a friends house...and if my husband or I are in a rush and we DO forget, my kids will quickly remind me that we need to pray...it's about submitting your life to God in all things, not just saying we're Christians, but by committing even the mundane areas of our life like eating a meal which we do so often..to Him...

 

5. We pray as a family, we've been praying for over a year for our other house to sell...my kids will come to me and tell me that they've been praying on their own, even waking up and kneeling for weeks waiting for an answer...I sit and have a discussion with them and tell them it will happen and look at all that has come about because our house has not sold...

a. We ARE praying more as a family

b. God has brought people into our lives that we would never have met otherwise...the lady who runs a horse ministry and will help us set up our ministry (our realtor introduced us)...another gal who wants to help our rescue horse become a safe ride for kids (also a referral from the realtor)..our farrier who has brought so much knowledge and wisdom into our lives to help us create a place for abused children one day...the list goes on and on...but we are amazed and while it has been tough for my husband, we've been blessed that his company (main job) allows him to telecommute from home 1-2 days a week..so God knew we missed him at dinners but now we get to have him for lunch and throughout our day...and he's still earning what we need...be AWARE of how challenges can lead to blessings.

 

Do all these things out of LOVE not out of a sense of failing pride that your son has chosen to turn his back on your faith...you are not in this alone, SEEK GOD and his Hand will help you on this journey...HE knows your heart, and perhaps this is a blessing because it will bring YOU closer to God and as a result the kids will see a change in how you respond....I think part of the 'inquisition' of sorts you had with him was more out of a respect issue instead of a heart issue...I can easily see how you would feel let down by him even wanting to seek this out..but it's not about how WE feel about it, it's about genuinely wanting him to KNOW who God is and seeing/feeling/experiencing His active role in our life.

 

As a teen, we want proof sometimes, we don't have the eyes/ears/perceptions to convince ourselves that God is alive...but if you just ask him to simply pray to God to show Him to your son...and tell your son that's all you want right now, just for your son to ask God to show Himself to your son...it may be as simple as a kind gesture from some of his peers, a new person coming into his life with faith...God prepares so much in our paths...and when we're in a valley He lifts us up through others and events...believe that God will help you in this.

 

Praying for you and your three sons!!

 

Tara

[Mama Lynx]

1. When they were young we went through 20 4-CD sets of Adventures in Odyssey...heck it even strengthened my own faith...but with media and programming today, the kids are barraged with 'good' families that are either witches, have no mention of God in their functioning family, or worse, they present a egocentric view of life.

 

While I don't deny the general unwholesomeness of media barrage ... why put the word "good" in quotes? It comes off as sounding as if you're saying that families who are witches, or who have no mention of God (capital G) in their functioning family, are not good families.

 

Is that what you believe?

[Jenny in Atl]

While I don't deny the general unwholesomeness of media barrage ... why put the word "good" in quotes? It comes off as sounding as if you're saying that families who are witches, or who have no mention of God (capital G) in their functioning family, are not good families.

 

Is that what you believe?

 

But of course! As long as you don't believe as she does, you are not "good" or "right". Sadly, I don't think this poster is the only one who sees the world this way. Is this not the root of much of the world's ills and pain; the constant bickering over whose God is better, whose lifestyle is the right/righteous one, whose culture is superior.

[chiguirre]

RC, you sound like you've got a very good grip on the problem. IMHO, if you've managed to deal with your atheist ds, I think you'll do a great job dealing with your explorer no matter where he ends up. You sound like a fabulous parent and I hope I'll be as level-headed when my kids hit adolescence.