Is there a word for this? Like Anorexia Nervosa

[Tap]

I am trying to research a topic to help a friend, and I am not finding what I need. 

 

Anorexia is considered a mental health condition, because the person has a fear of gaining weight, and a distorted body image.

 

But, what is it called if someone just doesn't eat enough to sustain a high enough body mass, to prevent illness?  They would actually like to gain weight, but can't.They feel that they would look better with more weight and try to find clothes that do not show how skinny they are.   They do not try to limit intake, but they can't force themselves to eat, because eating too much makes them nauseous.  They eat a small, normal portion of food at a meal, but then once their  brain says "enough", they can't make themselves eat anymore.   On top of that, they have a fast metabolism, so that they burn off all the food they do eat really fast. This person eats healthy homemade food for the vast majority calories, so the food they eat is decent fuel. 

 

This person is starting to have some various health issues that are kind of random.  When doing research, one common cause of all their symptoms, is 'anorexia'. 

 

 

Is there a word for this, other than just malnourished?

 

 

EDITED: I edited the title to clarify.  It originally said Like Anorexia, but not on purpose by the patient.   I had worded it that way originally to clarify what I was looking for an not meaning to offend anyone.  I understand it is medical mental health concern.  

Edited April 10, 2016 by Tap

[heartlikealion]

I would think that might be more like a side effect of a bigger problem than fast metabolism. For example, my mother has Parkinson's and has trouble maintaining/gaining weight. Dietary changes don't seem to do a whole lot. So the word you're looking for may be the actual medical diagnosis?

 

I don't know, there could be a word for what you are describing but I'm just guessing there's some underlying problem. It seems to me she may be eating enough, but her body doesn't process it normally.

[hornblower]

See cachexia

 

Or more generally wasting

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Starr]

Don't rule out anorexia. I know a woman who died because she said she couldn't eat due to various reasons and wouldn't work with anyone who mentioned anorexia. And in the weird department I know another who has anorexic like symptoms because a brain tumor causes her not to be hungry. Failure to thrive is something else to read about.

[maize]

 

I did know a girl who was immensely underweight and a brain tumor was the underlying cause. In her case it was operated on successfully and she began to gain weight.

 

This person needs to work with a dr. to determine what is going on. If no diagnosable underlying issues are found she may need to focus on ways to increase her calories; I have known of cases where a person had to add extra fats and oils to everything in order to maintain a healthy weight. Standard dietary advice may not apply in this case.

Edited April 10, 2016 by maize

[EndOfOrdinary]

When my hormone issues were still not diagnosed properly, I would throw up after eating very little, not be hungry, and had no hunger reflex at all. I lost serious weight, to the point of people thinking I had an eating disorder. My parents tried to vouch for the involuntary nausea, but even they were getting to the point of thinking mentally something was wrong. I'd get bloodwork done if your friend hasn't.

[Tap]

When my hormone issues were still not diagnosed properly, I would throw up after eating very little, not be hungry, and had no hunger reflex at all. I lost serious weight, to the point of people thinking I had an eating disorder. My parents tried to vouch for the involuntary nausea, but even they were getting to the point of thinking mentally something was wrong. I'd get bloodwork done if your friend hasn't.

Would you mind sharing what the hormone issues were. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer a more private format.

 

Hormone tests are some of the tests that are askew. 

 

Is it the chicken or the egg? How do you figure out which is causing which?  Is the low body weight causing the hormone imbalance or visa versa?

[EndOfOrdinary]

Would you mind sharing what the hormone issues were. Feel free to PM me if you would prefer a more private format.

 

Hormone tests are some of the tests that are askew.

 

Is it the chicken or the egg? How do you figure out which is causing which? Is the low body weight causing the hormone imbalance or visa versa?

I have Hashimotos. My thryroid does not self regulate. It will go crazy high, then low, maybe balance a bit, then wonk out again. It causes wierd metabolism issues. Hormones regulate so much more than I ever realized! Getting routine thyroid work can do wonders! Once it was figured out, and I leveled for a while, I was able to really understand what normal was supposed to feel like. I can still throw up if I wait too long to eat, then try to. Also if I do not make good food choices repeatedly. Now, I know when to slowly force myself to eat. Drinking meals helps a lot. Smoothies are wonderful. I can slow drink them and get lots of good, nutritious calories but not overload my body.

 

Thyroid stuff seems to still be relatively not well understood so not really assessed accurately. At least, that has been my experience. Diet and exercise, the appropriate birth control, and medicating me into normal for long enough that I understood my body has done wonders.

[Laura Corin]

Calvin has always been underweight.  At 5'11, he has only recently reached a weight where he can give blood.  He has seen various doctors over the years, including a full all-day work up last year about the possibility of Marfan Syndrome.

 

One of my brothers was similar.  He's 6'2" and is now a very slim but well-muscled man who is on the low side of normal weight.  In adulthood he took up cycling and tennis and that seems to have regularised his appetite.  He's healthy at age 58.

 

I can't get Calvin to exercise.

 

Not the case for my brother, but depression can cause lack of interest in food.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Laura Corin

[MistyMountain]

I have always been underweight but I always ate a lot and never got nauseous. I could not put on weight no matter what I tried. People ridiculed me in school for being underweight and called me anorexic and other not nice things. It is not caused by a health issue for me. There are other people in my family who are the same way. The nausea and the fact that she does not eat much could mean it is health related. If it came on suddenly that would also be worrying.

Edited April 10, 2016 by MistyMountain

[Joules]

I second the blood work.  A high thyroid condition like Grave's can cause weight loss and make it impossible to keep weight on.  I was hungry and ate all of the time (and kept losing weight), but I can see how the nausea might make one not eat.  

[Pawz4me]

I believe that technically anorexia means loss of appetite or the inability to eat.

 

Anorexia nervosa is the psychological condition that causes one to voluntarily starve oneself.

 

Anorexia is a symptom.  Anorexia nervosa is a disorder.

 

So what your friend is experiencing is, technically, accurately called anorexia.

 

But I ain't any kind of medical professional.  I'm not even fully caffeinated yet. ;)  So take that FWIW.

[JumpyTheFrog]

It seems like I've read that a zinc (?) deficiency can cause a loss of appetite.

Edited April 10, 2016 by HoppyTheToad

[zoobie]

I also wouldn't rule out anorexia. A friend's daughter is getting treatment for this now. She's on the much younger end of what I thought was typical. She knew she needed to eat more, knew she was losing weight and didn't have a desire to lose weight, but she couldn't make herself eat. It is a failure to consume food (vs physical issue that causes nutrients not to be absorbed) that causes the weight loss. Voluntary/involuntary and intentional/unintentional is a blurred line. Good luck to your friend. :grouphug:

[BarbecueMom]

Get a GI doc to check for acid reflux/hiatal hernia/H. pylori, and/or IBS/IBD. I'm sort of the same way. I no longer feel hunger and if I have to eat at night, I take a Zantac and still feel like an elephant is trying to crawl out of my stomach afterward.

 

I'm also very susceptible to GI bugs. What annoys my kids for a few days will put me in the hospital. Therefore, I also have a bit of emetophobia and germaphobia going on. If one of my kids says they don't feel well, even if they mean a cold or allergies or something, my stomach (or the part of the brain controlling it) shuts down and I can't eat for a day or so afterward.

[UCF612]

My friend's daughter couldn't gain weight. She ended up being diagnosed with Celiac disease. She's much healthier now that she doesn't eat gluten.

Edited April 10, 2016 by UCF612

[SporkUK]

Anorexia is the medical term for lack of appetite, regardless of cause. Anorexia nervosa is the mental health condition which is often shortened to anorexia which can cause a lot of confusion especially if you are trying to google.

 

Lots of different things can cause appetite and food intake issues. I struggled with eating and gaining weight until I was 28 - I literally went through 4 pregnancies and had to fight to stay above 8 stone [112 pounds] in the first trimester of each one to stay out of the 'high risk pregnancy' category. It only changed because I hit premature menopause/premature ovarian failure so under going an entire hormonal change as well as undergoing more in-depth treatment for chronic anemia which resolved then and lack of Vitamin D which I'm still working on with my GP [for the latter - it's best between 70-100, under 50 is concern, under 30 causes damage, mine keeps testing in the teens and no one knows why] which led to my finally getting an appetite and gaining 3 stone in 2 years which still shocks me. 

 

The body is complicated.  So many things can kill a person's appetite - my first testings involved the GP requesting a few dozen things be checked via blood tests every 6 months as part of an ongoing investigation [thankfully it's now down to 3 vials, when I first started it was 6 or 7 vials]. Also, there are questions on movement [including fidget] as well as diet, ways to increase caloric content in smaller bite sizes, and many other things I and many others like your friend consider on while working on this. I hope the best for your friend [and a less complicated way to gain weight other than early menopause because it's awful]. 

[JFSinIL]

Not to quibble, but I don't think implying anorexia is ever "on purpose by the patient" is correct. It is a mental illness as much as bipolar disorder (and don't get me started on "disorder" - that sounds too benign. Should be bipolar DEVASTATION!) I think your friend should not rule out anorexia - part of the evilness of anorexia is that persons who have it will deny it as part of the disease.

This mom has several blog posts on treating her dd's anorexia: http://jugglinglife.typepad.com/juggling_life/anorexia/

[magnificent_baby]

I believe that technically anorexia means loss of appetite or the inability to eat.

 

Anorexia nervosa is the psychological condition that causes one to voluntarily starve oneself.

 

Anorexia is a symptom.  Anorexia nervosa is a disorder.

 

So what your friend is experiencing is, technically, accurately called anorexia.

 

But I ain't any kind of medical professional.  I'm not even fully caffeinated yet. ;)  So take that FWIW.

 

Yes, this exactly.

 

If they have not been to the doctor yet, I would highly suggest going, especially if it was a recent change. There are very serious conditions that can cause the symptom of anorexia and early satiety (becoming full, early). 

[maize]

Not to quibble, but I don't think implying anorexia is ever "on purpose by the patient" is correct. It is a mental illness as much as bipolar disorder

This bears repeating, thank you for stating it.

[maize]

What you describe with your friend sounds very much like what happens to me during the first half of pregnancy; it is awful and I do lose weight without wanting to. It's just so hard to eat when food makes you gag.

 

It sounds like there are lots of medical possibilities she needs to pursue with a good doctor, and in the meantime try whatever she can to increase calories. The biological effects of starvation--including psychological effects--are not to be taken lightly.

Edited April 10, 2016 by maize

[Laurie]

 

 

But, what is it called if someone just doesn't eat enough to sustain a high enough body mass, to prevent illness?  They would actually like to gain weight, but can't.They feel that they would look better with more weight and try to find clothes that do not show how skinny they are.   They do not try to limit intake, but they can't force themselves to eat, because eating too much makes them nauseous.  They eat a small, normal portion of food at a meal, but then once their  brain says "enough", they can't make themselves eat anymore.   On top of that, they have a fast metabolism, so that they burn off all the food they do eat really fast. This person eats healthy homemade food for the vast majority calories, so the food they eat is decent fuel. 

 

 

My teen daughter has been having major problems with unintentional weight loss and upper GI discomfort this past year.  In her case,  what we were thinking was "indigestion" and treating with Tums and then two weeks of Prilosec was absolutely the wrong approach.   After using Prilosec, she went from just feeling uncomfortable after eating  to having extreme bloating/burping.   I started giving her more bland foods, like rice and mashed potatoes but she kept getting worse with nausea, not just bloating, and wanted the throw up bucket nearby all the time even though she didn't have any vomiting.   She's seen the pediatrician, a gastroenterologist, a naturopath and a registered dietician.  The gastro. dr. recommended the Low FODMAP diet, which we were already following pretty closely...he said that the gut microbes affect our brains, not just our guts,  so what we eat really can affect how we feel and think.

  

Unfortunately, the low FODMAP diet wasn't enough for my dd.  I started reading about the GAPS diet (Gut and Psychology Syndrome), and although I was really apprehensive because it's very restrictive my daughter was very willing to try it . ( We already knew that her gut flora is out of balance based on the results of the stool sample ordered by the naturopath.)  Taking all grains and certain carbohydrates out of her diet has helped a lot with the bloating, the nausea is gone, but apparently healing and restoring the gut and gut flora takes awhile.  I did notice that shortly after starting the GAPS diet the stubborn eczema on her hands went away so I'm hoping that there's something good going on inside as well as outside!  (The pediatrician had prescribed a steroid cream that would get rid of the eczema for a short time but it always came back.) 

 

I found this blog entry and linked it only because it includes an excerpt from the chapter on eating disorders in the GAPS diet book:  http://it-takes-time.com/2014/07/gaps-and-eating-disorders.html

 

Sorry this got long, but I wanted to say that even if someone is eating what looks like a healthy diet, it might not be the right kind of healthy diet for him/her. 

[wapiti]

Starting from a basic medical angle, I'd consider zinc supplementation, look at thyroid numbers, possible insulin resistance, other vitamin deficiencies, etc.  Some things may be difficult to quantify via bloodwork (especially insulin resistance) and vitamin supplementation may involve trial and error.  Another, more random supplement to look at is NAG (n acetyl glucosamine).  I'd also look at nutritional "sensitivities" as was mentioned above, e.g. gluten, as well as food allergies.

 

I'd see a doc for basic bloodwork including whatever might point toward forms of cancer, though I don't know details (something in the CBC?).

Edited April 10, 2016 by wapiti

[TechWife]

If there is truly no mental illness aspect to your friend's eating issues, I suggest her seeing a dietician or nutritionist who is trained in eating disorders.  I have a family member who had to go to one and I was skeptical but this professional knew exactly how many calories are needed to maintain or gain and what kinds of foods are the most calorie dense without too much volume.  They weigh the client and advise each week (or however much is necessary) and are basically a coach. 

 

* Even if they do have a mental illness aspect to the eating issue, the dietician can be a great resource in addition to therapy.

 

This doesn't make sense to me. If there is no mental illness aspect, the dietician need not be experienced in that area. I would think it would be more important to have a licensed dietician, preferably one who has experience helping people gain and maintain a healthy weight. Their experience with mentally ill patients is irrelevant if there is no mental illness present. 

[Tap]

.

 

Edited April 10, 2016 by Tap

[maize]

This doesn't make sense to me. If there is no mental illness aspect, the dietician need not be experienced in that area. I would think it would be more important to have a licensed dietician, preferably one who has experience helping people gain and maintain a healthy weight. Their experience with mentally ill patients is irrelevant if there is no mental illness present.

A dietician with experience with eating disorders may be best prepared to help someone who is severely malnourished, and will also be familiar with the potential risk for refeeding syndrome, which can be life threatening. It is a specialized area of nutrition.

[shage]

I believe that technically anorexia means loss of appetite or the inability to eat.

 

Anorexia nervosa is the psychological condition that causes one to voluntarily starve oneself.

 

Anorexia is a symptom. Anorexia nervosa is a disorder.

 

So what your friend is experiencing is, technically, accurately called anorexia.

 

But I ain't any kind of medical professional. I'm not even fully caffeinated yet. ;) So take that FWIW.

Yes, what is being described is anorexia but not necessarily anorexia nervosa.

[mommymonster]

My son had a brain tumor that caused him to stop eating. If he had not had a feeding tube, he would have starved to death. Once the tumor was removed and he went through a course of chemo, he began eating again. 

 

She needs to see a doctor if she's having medical problems due to not eating. Please help her to understand that. 

[Tap]

My son had a brain tumor that caused him to stop eating. If he had not had a feeding tube, he would have starved to death. Once the tumor was removed and he went through a course of chemo, he began eating again. 

 

She needs to see a doctor if she's having medical problems due to not eating. Please help her to understand that. 

She is.  She has been to several specialists who are trying to figure out what her odd symptoms all point to.  The symptoms aren't uncommon, the are just unrelenting.  Like having chronic pain for 6 months, with no known cause.  They have had Xrays, MRIs, CT scans of the region but not the brain, PT, and various other doctors who can't find a reason for her issues.  They have ordered various blood work, and a few numbers have came back askew. 

 

When I search all the of the issues individually, and the blood work, one common thing that pops up on some of them is Anorexia/Malnutrition.  I was trying to research the topic and kept coming up with Anorexia Nervosa, hence why I started the post.  The idea of a brain tumor is interesting, because one of her symptoms is an increase in headaches, but that has been attributed to another issue that she has with her neck.  I will add that to the research topics. Thanks.  :001_smile:

 

Her BMI, is 18.5 which is borderline normal and underweight.  So this isn't a profound wasting issue.  It is just interesting that she is on the lower end of normal, and it keeps coming up as a reason. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by Tap

[Tsuga]

It's still anorexia. I have a friend who almost died of it, at age 40, with no body image issues or desire to lose weight. She'd been a healthy, athletic woman all her life who suddenly stopped having any desire to eat. She tried to force herself to eat, but was eventually hospitalized when her weight dropped below 95 lbs (she's 5'11").

 

It's been 10 years and she still has to track what she eats very carefully to make sure she eats enough to live.

 

This. Body image may be a contributing factor to anorexia but you can have anorexia without having any body image issues at all.

 

 

 

Her BMI, is 18.5 which is borderline normal and underweight.

 

And she can't get it above 18.5 or it hovers between 18.5 and 19.5 or something? I hope she finds some answers.

 

She might want to consider a weight-gain meal plan and forcing herself to eat. Like counting calories and drinking cream with meals, for example.

 

If she is not willing to do that, then I would say anorexia could be a problem.

[Tap]

This. Body image may be a contributing factor to anorexia but you can have anorexia without having any body image issues at all.

 

 

And she can't get it above 18.5 or it hovers between 18.5 and 19.5 or something? I hope she finds some answers.

 

She might want to consider a weight-gain meal plan and forcing herself to eat. Like counting calories and drinking cream with meals, for example.

 

If she is not willing to do that, then I would say anorexia could be a problem.

She is 5'8" and 120lbs.  The highest she has ever weighed, eating junk food constantly at her friends house, is 125.  She doesn't spend time at that persons house any more, so her weight has stabilized at 120 again. Her mother was built the same way (120 and 5'8") when she got pg with her first child in her early 20s, so it wasn't on anyone's radar as a problem, until this issue came up. 

 

I am trying to research it before I bring it up as a possibility. Not that the teen is doing it on purpose, but just that her natural tendency to not overeat, is actually a little to extreme the other way, and hurting her.

[The Governess]

Hmmm. My height and weight are very similar to that. I have a high metabolism and just don't gain weight very easily. My dad is the same way, so some genetics are at play. I've tried eating more and have been at a slightly higher weight (when I was in college and eating too much fast food), but I didn't feel healthier. My doctor has always seemed satisfied that this is my "normal." I'm not saying that her weight isn't an issue necessarily, just sharing my experience in case it's helpful.

 

Hope she gets some answers.

[Tap]

Hmmm. My height and weight are very similar to that. I have a high metabolism and just don't gain weight very easily. My dad is the same way, so some genetics are at play. I've tried eating more and have been at a slightly higher weight (when I was in college and eating too much fast food), but I didn't feel healthier. My doctor has always seemed satisfied that this is my "normal." I'm not saying that her weight isn't an issue necessarily, just sharing my experience in case it's helpful.

 

Hope she gets some answers.

Yep, this seems to be normal for her, but just the fact that it keeps coming up as a possibility is curious to me.  It makes me wonder if her body needs a bit more fuel than it is getting with her current calorie intake. 

 

 

I can related to this because I personally have issues with low blood pressure.  I don't eat a lot of salt naturally, so my sodium levels are in the very low end of normal, range.  If I eat more salt, my blood pressure stays a bit higher and I feel better.  So, while my taste buds aren't crazy about salt and while I am technically in the normal range.....my body and my blood pressure benefits from me purposefully adding about 300-500mg of salt a day.  I do this by eating olives at night before bed, or eating a handful of salted nuts. If I am eating a food that naturally hides the taste of salt, like potatoes, I try to add a sprinkle to mine.  

[mommymonster]

She is.  She has been to several specialists who are trying to figure out what her odd symptoms all point to.  The symptoms aren't uncommon, the are just unrelenting.  Like having chronic pain for 6 months, with no known cause.  They have had Xrays, MRIs, CT scans of the region but not the brain, PT, and various other doctors who can't find a reason for her issues.  They have ordered various blood work, and a few numbers have came back askew. 

 

When I search all the of the issues individually, and the blood work, one common thing that pops up on some of them is Anorexia/Malnutrition.  I was trying to research the topic and kept coming up with Anorexia Nervosa, hence why I started the post.  The idea of a brain tumor is interesting, because one of her symptoms is an increase in headaches, but that has been attributed to another issue that she has with her neck.  I will add that to the research topics. Thanks.  :001_smile:

 

Her BMI, is 18.5 which is borderline normal and underweight.  So this isn't a profound wasting issue.  It is just interesting that she is on the lower end of normal, and it keeps coming up as a reason. 

 

Tell her to be relentless in following up. My son was under two, so it was DH and I who were relentless. We kept a binder of symptoms, times of day when things were good and bad. We made the pediatrician go through it every time we had an appointment. We also did as it sounds like you're doing -- google the crap out of the symptoms. We made lists of things "Dr. Google" said it might be and then asked the pediatrician about it. We had some really, really stupid potential causes. That being said, she went through everything with us. Because we made her. And finally she thought to do a MRI. 

 

In any case, chances are your friend doesn't have a brain tumor. The chances are really small. But something is definitely amiss, and it's great that she has someone to help her nail down the cause. 

[Tsuga]

She is 5'8" and 120lbs.  The highest she has ever weighed, eating junk food constantly at her friends house, is 125.  She doesn't spend time at that persons house any more, so her weight has stabilized at 120 again. Her mother was built the same way (120 and 5'8") when she got pg with her first child in her early 20s, so it wasn't on anyone's radar as a problem, until this issue came up. 

 

I am trying to research it before I bring it up as a possibility. Not that the teen is doing it on purpose, but just that her natural tendency to not overeat, is actually a little to extreme the other way, and hurting her.

 

This is a teen then?

 

As a teen and even any time when I'm not eating a LOT (like 2500 calories / day), I have that BMI. Like I literally have to sit at a desk and eat two meals out per day and drink alcohol and eat lunch meats every day in order to get up to a BMI of 19.5. If I start working out it will go down to 19.

 

I am very active.

 

However, I don't have back pain or anything. I am just a very nervous person, LOL.

 

She might still be getting her adult weight on, too.

 

I wouldn't over think it but instead cheerfully remind her to eat so she can grow up big and strong. I still tell my kids this, even my teen stepdaughter who is not underweight--she is actually really fit and healthy--but just as a reminder that food nourishes and we want them to grow strong at this age, not to buy into that dieting mentality.

[MistyMountain]

I was under that bmi as a teen. As an adult I am only a hair over it. I actually do eat a lot and always did. My thyroid levels were fine. I never had health issues. It sounds like she does have health issues and may not eat big enough portions. It is good they are looking into the cause of her issues.

[Bluegoat]

Yes, adult mesures don't always apply to teens.  THat's why so many models are teens, they naturally tend to be quite thin in a way that is abnormal for most adults.