Ideas about poverty and obesity

[Murphy101]

Ha. If you knew how I lie awake nights worry about every conceivable thing that could go wrong.

You and me both.

[Mergath]

Says the peoples with coyotes and bears and rattlesnakes. Most of our deadly stuff can be killed with a shoe.

 

Until you get near the water! Dd was watching an episode of Monster Fish on Netflix where the guy was in Australia. He was trying to catch some kind of freshwater stingray, but he was having a lot of trouble because the crocodiles wanted to eat him and the GIANT RIVER SHARKS kept taking his bait. :P I couldn't believe how many things there were all in the same river that wanted to eat him.  :lol:

[Murphy101]

Until you get near the water! Dd was watching an episode of Monster Fish on Netflix where the guy was in Australia. He was trying to catch some kind of freshwater stingray, but he was having a lot of trouble because the crocodiles wanted to eat him and the GIANT RIVER SHARKS kept taking his bait. :P I couldn't believe how many things there were all in the same river that wanted to eat him. :lol:

Lol

 

Here we have to go looking for inventing ways to be killed.

 

Like noodling. One of my sons who loves to fish learned about that many years ago and was all gung ho to go do it and mad bc I told him that was just the dumbest way to die and I'd kill him if he survived. Jk, of course. Tho I probably would thump him upside the head.

 

I mean sure if we are starving then *maybe* it might be worth the risk. But mostly I think this is one of those things started by some drunk on a dare.

[Bluegoat]

Do you have any support for that?  Because that seems to be the most counterintuitive thing I've ever heard.  I would be interested in exploring the facts.

 

According to some upthread posts, there is now some literature that suggests this may not be true, but if you google it you can probably find some of the studies that suggested it was.

 

I wasn't thinking about private insurance really at all, we have universal care here.

 

The error though that is being pointed out is essentially that if you are comparing an unhealthy smoker who dies of, say, lung cancer, to someone alive and healthy, you aren't making a good comparison.

 

Every person, no matter how healthy a life they live, will get old and probably have a decline and then need end of life care.  Most people who don't die from anything else will probably get cancer or die of heart failure, both of which may be long and drawn out.  (I think of my husbands grandmother, for example, who lived a very healthy moderate lifestyle.  She suffered from osteoporosis the last 20 years of her life, and had about five years of needing very significant care as she succumbed to heart failure.  She died at 94.)

 

So is care for dying of lung cancer at 60 more expensive than heart failure at 90+?  Not so clearly as people sometimes think.

[SKL]

Just anecdotally, my grandmas were both obese.  My dad's mom was a Christian Scientist and never smoked or did anything to excess.  She worked part-time into her 80s.  She did go to the doc a few times at the insistence of her children, but never was hospitalized, never had home nurse care or hospice care etc.  She died in her bed at age 87, after having shopped for a new hat that day.

 

My mom's mom was a smoker.  She was in the hospital and on meds many times for stones, degenerating joints, multiple cancers, and at least 2 heart attacks.  She was wheelchair bound for many years.  She died screaming in the hospital of liver cancer at age 70.  Though she died younger, the medical care she received before death was definitely much more than my other grandma.  Even if you consider the net cost of 17 years of social security / part-time work contribution, it is not comparable.

 

I recommend not smoking.

Edited April 1, 2016 by SKL

[Joyofsixreboot]

Today I had to buy food in the city at the Family Dollar, which is the main grocery store in that area. I was supposed to buy chickpeas. (Long boring story involving my daughter's OT counseling....)

 

There was a row of chips and cookies. There was a row of pasta. There was a row with spices. Muffin mix. Mac and cheese. Ramen noodles. There was a small section with canned veggies: green beans, peas, corn, potatoes. No canned beans. No dried beans. No produce.

 

I sure am glad that I have better grocery stores nearby, and a vehicle to get me to them, and time to shop.

I live in a small Midwestern town. The nearest "real" grocery store is 20 miles away. If you have no transportation your only option is the (singular) gas station. Sometimes there is an onion, banana or Apple but that's it for produce. I know people who shop there from convenience and necessity. Hard to make good choices when they don't exist.

[Valley Girl]

Moral of the story:  If you have an old fridge that you don't want anymore, call your local food bank and ask whether one of their outlets could use it.  It might make a huge difference for a lot of people.

 

Thank you for this suggestion! It would never have occurred to me on my own to do that.

[pinkmint]

I just want to say I think it's not one or the other. I wish it were that simple. Sometimes poor people's diets are true victims of circumstance and sometimes it's bad decisions and sometimes one more than the other and sometimes a mix of both. It varies a lot from person to person, family to family.

 

 

It's a hard, complicated thing.

 

Growing up I experienced the "bad choices" kind of poor a lot. My (single) mom bought department store makeup and we often had no food. No policies would have helped in a situation where the supposedly responsible adult would not make good choices even if they were assisted to make them.

 

So I don't know what the answer is.

 

Just thinking and I wanted to add that in the example I gave of my experience it wasn't just a poor choices and poverty connection. It was neglect, which is another topic. My mom was a relatively poor single mom but still chose to spend money on high-end makeup instead of groceries, and we lived in an area with a wide array of grocery options.

 

Why poverty and neglect like this (failure to provide basic food needs in a poor home when some means are there) seem to sometimes go together, I don't know. But I didn't want to say that poverty is all about poor choices because I know for a fact it's not. I've just experienced some things that go to show it's hard to solve the problem just by making resources available when some people sadly don't care enough to use the resources. 

 

But I do agree that bad apples should not spoil the bunch and food resources should continue to be made available to poor people and families. Only by the grace of each of us of us makes good choices. 

[Carrie12345]

 

 

White bread is not cheaper than wheat bread. 

 

 

This is simply not true.

I can get a big loaf of white bread for $1.39, a slightly smaller loaf of "wheat bread" (mostly coloring) for $1.79, a smaller loaf of 100% whole wheat bread for $2.49, or an even smaller loaf of seriously whole grain bread for $4,49.  Of course they all go on sale from time to time.  The $4.49 is sometimes $2.49, which still doesn't compare to the larger size and even cheaper sale price of the white.

[Carrie12345]

I don't think it sounds easy. As I said I have never known anyone who doesn't have a frig or stove. And I have known a whole lot of poor people. And I have been one myself. So I guess I just can't conceive of that being people's reality. And if they are that poor why aren't they in public housing where there is a refrigerator and stove.

 

As a young, single mom, I was given a 2-3 year wait time for public housing.

[pinkmint]

To add another personal anecdote, because of the lack of food I experienced growing up, to this day the way I often eat is like I don't know when my next meal will be. Fast and desperate. I have to be intentional about it knowing that food is easily available to me now. I think maybe people who are in or have experienced poverty can can relate. It's hard to eat a salad and think unconsciously: "I'm not that full but it's ok because food is always available to me and I know the next meal is guaranteed to come soon." When you're poor or have been poor you have that urge for stomach-stretching, instantly gratifying meals (this is my experience anyway). 

[Murphy101]

Somehow no matter how many times my dad "forgot" to give me lunch money or how many times I left the house without breakfast, he always had $400 ostrich skin boots.

 

I didn't give a damn he had nice custom fit boots. Sure. Get some nice boots if you want to.

 

I sorta minded that I didn't even have a jacket in winter, much less non-holey shoes and would have appreciated the option to have lunch if I felt like it.

 

And he would have never filled out free lunch paperwork. Bc by God he wasn't a freeloader and I wasn't going to humiliate him by looking poor.

 

So I just got used to not eating three meals a day and not eating much or anything for dinner. To this day I have to force myself to eat anything at all before 5pm. I just don't think about it or feel hungry until then. It was one of the hardest things about Whole30. Bc making yourself eat more often seems really counter intuitive to losing weight. But seriously. I'd be not even slightly hungry and then BAM! Ravenous at 4pm. It's hard to break a 20-30 year biologically conditioned cycle. And for a long time it didn't catch up to me. Turns 36ish seemed to have flipped some biological switch bc that when I gained a ton of weight. Honestly I still have not broken it. I just have to force myself to go against.

 

There was a thing going round in Fb about eating chocolate cake for breakfast could cause weight loss. I don't doubt it. I think eating regular meals in general can cause weight loss. Even if the meals aren't all that wonderful healthy. People seriously have no idea how often people can't eat regular meals and how over time that can really mess with bio chemistry signals. Eating at regular intervals is a major struggle for the poor and the working poor.

[JumpyTheFrog]

I read somewhere that the definition of a food desert in an urban area was no grocery store within one mile. I was thinking it would be something like five miles where it would take hours to walk there and back. I understand that some people are in what I would consider a food desert, but I have a hard time taking seriously the idea that your average non-disabled poor person is very hungry because they have a 15-20 minute walk to the store. (I'd understand if the neighborhood was really unsafe to walk through.)

 

I will google to see if I can find the definition, in case I am wrong.

[JumpyTheFrog]

Food desert definition: http://americannutritionassociation.org/newsletter/usda-defines-food-deserts

 

At least 33% of the census tract population (whatever that is) must be at least 1 mile from a supermarket. The distance is 10 miles if in a rural location. By that definition, I might live in a food desert even though three supermarkets plus Aldi are a little more than one mile from me.

[Laura Corin]

I live in a small Midwestern town. The nearest "real" grocery store is 20 miles away. If you have no transportation your only option is the (singular) gas station. Sometimes there is an onion, banana or Apple but that's it for produce. I know people who shop there from convenience and necessity. Hard to make good choices when they don't exist.

 

Are there any delivery options?  I get delivery from a grocery store 20 miles away.  Depending on the time of day the delivery comes, I can choose to get deliveries for a smaller charge than the cost of driving to a nearer store.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

Absolutely.

 

It's about attainable goals. Food for many families in poverty often (not always) becomes their event, their celebration, their vacation. Upper class people can afford entertainment, travel, birthday parties that are activity centered rather than food centered and costly event tickets etc. But when you have days where you are eating toast with margarine as your main daily intake, the day you can eat what you want or make a special dinner becomes a huge family and entertainment event. And one of the only luxuries you get. The way you show love and affection, the way you bond and the way you apologize. Meals may be bleak but mom has enough pocket change for a slurpee or a donut and that makes the day seem like a good one.

 

There are a lot of instances of that in my own family for sure. When we had a bit of extra money it always went to "the good food".

This brought tears to my eyes.  So much truth here.

 

As someone who was the recipient of government cheese and peanut butter, along with church food boxes, and scratch and dent items from the grocery store, I find that there isn't always a choice of what one eats.  I used to gaze longingly at the Twinkies, Zingers and other snack treats fellow students would bring to school.  I so badly wanted to find those elusive delicacies in my lunch but, alas, I was on the free lunch program and public schools weren't handing out anything made by Dolly Madison or Hostess.   

 

At one point in our young lives, my dad worked the night shift at 7-11 and he would call us down to come get slurpees when he would clean the machines. Oh, what a treat that was.

[Scarlett]

Somehow no matter how many times my dad "forgot" to give me lunch money or how many times I left the house without breakfast, he always had $400 ostrich skin boots.

 

I didn't give a damn he had nice custom fit boots. Sure. Get some nice boots if you want to.

 

I sorta minded that I didn't even have a jacket in winter, much less non-holey shoes and would have appreciated the option to have lunch if I felt like it.

 

And he would have never filled out free lunch paperwork. Bc by God he wasn't a freeloader and I wasn't going to humiliate him by looking poor.

 

So I just got used to not eating three meals a day and not eating much or anything for dinner. To this day I have to force myself to eat anything at all before 5pm. I just don't think about it or feel hungry until then. It was one of the hardest things about Whole30. Bc making yourself eat more often seems really counter intuitive to losing weight. But seriously. I'd be not even slightly hungry and then BAM! Ravenous at 4pm. It's hard to break a 20-30 year biologically conditioned cycle. And for a long time it didn't catch up to me. Turns 36ish seemed to have flipped some biological switch bc that when I gained a ton of weight. Honestly I still have not broken it. I just have to force myself to go against.

 

There was a thing going round in Fb about eating chocolate cake for breakfast could cause weight loss. I don't doubt it. I think eating regular meals in general can cause weight loss. Even if the meals aren't all that wonderful healthy. People seriously have no idea how often people can't eat regular meals and how over time that can really mess with bio chemistry signals. Eating at regular intervals is a major struggle for the poor and the working poor.

 

 

Martha your memories of going without food in your childhood made me just ill.  From your description though it seemed more about neglect than actual poverty.  

 

I was living in poverty.  Never went without food.  Ever.  Never had a utility shut off.  Not even the phone.  

[Joyofsixreboot]

Nope. No one delivers at all.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Murphy101]

Martha your memories of going without food in your childhood made me just ill. From your description though it seemed more about neglect than actual poverty.

 

I was living in poverty. Never went without food. Ever. Never had a utility shut off. Not even the phone.

It was neglect and it was poverty.

 

Dad never questioned or asked what mom ate all day. But at dinner he better have steak and potatoes. He always got a huge whole t-bone loaded baked potatoes and maybe something else. Mom and I would split a small plain baked potato. On the rare ocassion when I or anyone else asked mom about this, she'd just Twitter and say she was watching her figure. (She was never fat or near it. Frankly she looked better in a bikini at 40 than I did at 21.)

 

It's kind of like that forum post years ago where someone was on foodstamps and decided they'd feed their family Ramon 3 times a day so they could go to Disney. Only my dad would do stuff like that and buy boots, or a boat, or whatever. So he would have this really nice boat nut say he didn't have my $5 for lunch money once a week.

 

Even when he did better financially, it was like that.

 

It made zero sense and was completely selfish.

 

And yet sometimes it was also poverty.

[Murphy101]

And speaking of that foodstamp/Disney thread. Lol

 

Boy how times have changed.

 

Iirc, I was one of a few loan dissenters saying I would be livid about it and that's not okay. Because I know how much a family would have to give up if they already had so little to do something like that from experience and I'm not okay with it.

 

But several people said those poor people need vacations just as much as anyone else and we shouldn't judge.

 

I bet with the downturn it would be get a different reaction now. I hope.

[LucyStoner]

This brought tears to my eyes. So much truth here.

 

As someone who was the recipient of government cheese and peanut butter, along with church food boxes, and scratch and dent items from the grocery store, I find that there isn't always a choice of what one eats. I used to gaze longingly at the Twinkies, Zingers and other snack treats fellow students would bring to school. I so badly wanted to find those elusive delicacies in my lunch but, alas, I was on the free lunch program and public schools weren't handing out anything made by Dolly Madison or Hostess.

 

At one point in our young lives, my dad worked the night shift at 7-11 and he would call us down to come get slurpees when he would clean the machines. Oh, what a treat that was.

Fellow gal here who can describe in great detail the taste and texture of those old government commodities. I remember what I really wanted was a lunchable. Of course I later realized that you get ridiculously little food for the price. But to an 8 year old, sometimes it's just nice to show up with what your friends have even if it is crap. Edited April 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Laura Corin]

Nope. No one delivers at all.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

 

That's a pain.  I live rurally (although not remotely) and I can get deliveries from two supermarkets.

[Murphy101]

Fellow gal here who can describle in great detail the taste and texture of those old government commodities. I remember I really wanted a lunchable. Of course I larer relized that you get ridiculously little food for the price. But to an 8 year old, sometimes it's just nice to show up with what your friends have even if it is crap.

I omitted the struggle. At my school, you could go to recess whenever you finished eating, so yay me - I had the whole time for recess and a solid 20ish minutes where it was just me and the other Po kids having the entire playground to ourselves before the teeming hordes descended on it. Muhahahah! 😄🎉

[LucyStoner]

It was neglect and it was poverty.

 

Dad never questioned or asked what mom ate all day. But at dinner he better have steak and potatoes. He always got a huge whole t-bone loaded baked potatoes and maybe something else. Mom and I would split a small plain baked potato. On the rare ocassion when I or anyone else asked mom about this, she'd just Twitter and say she was watching her figure. (She was never fat or near it. Frankly she looked better in a bikini at 40 than I did at 21.)

 

It's kind of like that forum post years ago where someone was on foodstamps and decided they'd feed their family Ramon 3 times a day so they could go to Disney. Only my dad would do stuff like that and buy boots, or a boat, or whatever. So he would have this really nice boat nut say he didn't have my $5 for lunch money once a week.

 

Even when he did better financially, it was like that.

 

It made zero sense and was completely selfish.

 

And yet sometimes it was also poverty.

My older (half) brother is like this. He would buy himself tons of crap and eat out all the time, sometimes bring home take out for himself while his wife and kids had appallingly little. I've had it out with him over this. It's not just neglect, it's abuse.

 

I haven't the foggiest freaking idea where he learned that because for all their faults, my parents were both of the kids get fed first mindset. Whatever little they had, they never hoarded the resources for themselves.

 

It was such a bad experience for my niece and nephew. It took them awhile to realize that yes, they can eat all they want/get seconds over here and that when I take them out to eat, I don't order whatever I want and make them split the cheapest kids' meal. Thinking about it makes me a little stabby.

 

I'm sorry you experienced that.

Edited April 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Murphy101]

Nm

Tmi

Don't get me on my soapbox.

😎

Edited April 2, 2016 by Murphy101

[LucyStoner]

I read somewhere that the definition of a food desert in an urban area was no grocery store within one mile. I was thinking it would be something like five miles where it would take hours to walk there and back. I understand that some people are in what I would consider a food desert, but I have a hard time taking seriously the idea that your average non-disabled poor person is very hungry because they have a 15-20 minute walk to the store. (I'd understand if the neighborhood was really unsafe to walk through.)

 

I will google to see if I can find the definition, in case I am wrong.

There's also the issue of what sort of store you can get to. We used to live in a majority minority neighborhood and there was a smallish grocery store we could walk to. But when you got there, there were very limited (and poor quality) fresh items. Plus the prices were astronomical for these fresh items. Like paying more than While Food prices for apples that would elsewhere have been in the food bank. The other items were also sold at much higher prices than most other stores in our city, The next closest store was several miles past that one and not too much better. And there's only so much one can carry home on their arms. So we (this was my nicer brother and my now husband plus me) would catch a couple of busses to a larger, cleaner, nicer store in a more affluent area and drag a couple of weeks of food back with us on the bus. But we had three adult sized people to carry the food and no kids to feed. It would be a lot harder to be in that situation as a single parent with little kids. A lot of our neighbors without a car either just paid the high prices or they would team up with people who did have cars to shop fairly far from that area to access the more modest prices. There was no such thing as just running to the store quickly for an onion or some milk. You paid a premium and often the stuff was past its prime. If they even had it in stock. It's rare for me to go to my suburban grocery store and find them totally out of something basic but there it was pretty much a given that stock varied. Wildly. Edited April 2, 2016 by LucyStoner

[Carol in Cal.]

Regarding the food desert, there is also the question of how far you have to go to get to the Food Bank, and how much you can transport.

Our food bank outlet nonprofit serves 5 zip codes.  That's a fairly wide geographic range, even in an urban setting.

People who don't have cars have a hard time taking home their biweekly supplies if they don't live close by.

A food desert indeed.

This is one of the reasons why all the meat we give out is frozen.

We do get good stuff to give away--lots of fresh veggies and fruit.  Sometimes frozen restaurant meals, like sweet and sour pork for four people in a big freezer bag.  I worry, though, about how people keep this stuff edible.  We have very hot summers here, and AC is uncommon in marginal lodgings, fridges not necessarily available either.  So glad we had this thread.  I'm going to be keeping an eye out for dorm fridges in a month or so when all the college students go home.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Carol in Cal.

[poppy]

I read somewhere that the definition of a food desert in an urban area was no grocery store within one mile. I was thinking it would be something like five miles where it would take hours to walk there and back. I understand that some people are in what I would consider a food desert, but I have a hard time taking seriously the idea that your average non-disabled poor person is very hungry because they have a 15-20 minute walk to the store. (I'd understand if the neighborhood was really unsafe to walk through.)

 

I will google to see if I can find the definition, in case I am wrong.

 

Not very hungry.  Just buying easily transportable meals that are shelf stable for a long time. because a 20 minute walk is 40 minutes round trip. 40 minutes with kids tagging along,  ha. I'd be buying sodium-bomb bean and rice boxes, mostly.   Not terrible for you. But not nutritious, no veggies, no fruit, low protien, MSG, blah blah blah.

[FaithManor]

In my niece's zip code it is 14 miles to a grocery store, no delivety, and no food bank so when her car's alternator went up and her two neighbors nearby were in Florida for the summer, thjngs got a little dire for her and her daughter until we realized we hadn't heard from her in a while and went to check. (She was out of minutes on her tracphone so she had not called for help.)

 

In some areas, lack of transportation can be the biggest issue facing low income families since there is no public transport. Grocery shopping, health care, pharmacy access is all a major issue.

 

Three communities in our county only have gas stations and Dollar Generals.

[SKL]

The idea that food is supposed to be easy and quick do get is not normal for human history.  Historically, and even today in much of the world, you go (usually on foot) to the market and buy what you're going to cook each day.  It's not a 2 minute walk (or drive) either.

 

The city near me was somehow labeled as a food desert despite the fact that you can easily walk to an Aldi or a Dave's from any and every home address.  I don't get it.  Actually the food is easier to get there than in the surrounding suburbs and certainly the rural areas.

 

Another unrelated point - delivery - nowadays you can get many kinds of healthy foods delivered via regular mail/delivery services.  Obviously not things like milk and eggs, but many food options are healthy and shelf-stable enough that delivery is a meaningful option.  Actually you could probably even get shelf-stable milk nowadays, in those packages that don't need refrigeration.

 

And as for government cheese, we really liked the cheese we got.  It isn't terrible food at all.  We were very thankful for it.

 

I'm sorry for those whose parents didn't  / don't prioritize the health of the children in their care.  :(  I was very lucky in that both of my parents put the kids first.

Edited April 3, 2016 by SKL

[Carrie12345]

In my niece's zip code it is 14 miles to a grocery store, no delivety, and no food bank so when her car's alternator went up and her two neighbors nearby were in Florida for the summer, thjngs got a little dire for her and her daughter until we realized we hadn't heard from her in a while and went to check. (She was out of minutes on her tracphone so she had not called for help.)

 

In some areas, lack of transportation can be the biggest issue facing low income families since there is no public transport. Grocery shopping, health care, pharmacy access is all a major issue.

 

Three communities in our county only have gas stations and Dollar Generals.

 

My car got funny while dh was out of the country. I didn't get it repaired because I was in the fortunate position of preparing to replace it.  But, for a week or two, I was without transportation.  Not only is my grocery store 9 miles away, the dollar store is about 5 miles (and 1200' of altitude) away, and the gas station is nearly 2 miles away and has a smaller than average convenience store. I was definitely glad I've had the means to maintain decent emergency food storage.  I have absolutely no idea how people with long-term issues manage around here.

 

For the record, the nearest food/clothing bank is farther away than the grocery store.  Maybe 15 miles or so.

[Arcadia]

That's a pain. I live rurally (although not remotely) and I can get deliveries from two supermarkets.

Here it depends on the supermarket delivery area/zone. I live 500 feet away from a supermarket chain that offers free delivery for orders over $150 and a $15 delivery charge if under. However, the food comes from their regional distribution center instead of from my nearest supermarket location.

 

We just went to a supermarket chain located in a messier area and they wanted people to check in their backpacks. The same chain in a posher area don't have that store rule.

[Arcadia]

. (She was out of minutes on her tracphone so she had not called for help.) .

Is there a way to call collect? I had those MCI prepaid international phone cards that I could use for call collect on payphones. It was useful when my cellphone battery was flat.

I guess it would be easier to gift her a tracphone prepaid top up card to use for emergencies.

[poppy]

The idea that food is supposed to be easy and quick do get is not normal for human history.  Historically, and even today in much of the world, you go (usually on foot) to the market and buy what you're going to cook each day.  It's not a 2 minute walk (or drive) either.

 

The city near me was somehow labeled as a food desert despite the fact that you can easily walk to an Aldi or a Dave's from any and every home address.  I don't get it.  Actually the food is easier to get there than in the surrounding suburbs and certainly the rural areas.

 

Another unrelated point - delivery - nowadays you can get many kinds of healthy foods delivered via regular mail/delivery services.  Obviously not things like milk and eggs, but many food options are healthy and shelf-stable enough that delivery is a meaningful option.  Actually you could probably even get shelf-stable milk nowadays, in those packages that don't need refrigeration.

 

And as for government cheese, we really liked the cheese we got.  It isn't terrible food at all.  We were very thankful for it.

 

I'm sorry for those whose parents didn't  / don't prioritize the health of the children in their care.  :(  I was very lucky in that both of my parents put the kids first.

 

Everyone can walk to Aldi's and can just order from Amazon.  It's really easy for anyone who cares about their kids.  Sure. 

 

[morningcoffee]

Just an FYI.....a persons body becomes used to beans if eaten more regularly.

 

Not if they have trouble digesting Galacto - Oligosaccharides.

 

For some people, IBS can go beyond the mild discomfort or embarrassment normally associated with eating beans. 

[Jane in NC]

In my niece's zip code it is 14 miles to a grocery store, no delivety, and no food bank so when her car's alternator went up and her two neighbors nearby were in Florida for the summer, thjngs got a little dire for her and her daughter until we realized we hadn't heard from her in a while and went to check. (She was out of minutes on her tracphone so she had not called for help.)

 

In some areas, lack of transportation can be the biggest issue facing low income families since there is no public transport. Grocery shopping, health care, pharmacy access is all a major issue.

 

Three communities in our county only have gas stations and Dollar Generals.

 

My community now has a grocery but a few years ago one had to drive to the next town for shopping beyond the convenience mart.  (We had and still have a locally owned pharmacy.)  In the non-grocery store days, I learned of a single mom who requested rides to Walmart for shopping so I offered to drive her. 

 

What an eye opener!  For someone without transportation, Walmart defined a social outing.  My method of shopping is that of in and out, get 'er done.  This gal looked at everything, talked to everyone. Frankly I find it odd that Walmart becomes the community center in some places.

 

Her cart was filled with a number of freezer meals (family size not individual).  I know that she suffered from depression and suspect that she had a lot of easy things for her preteen son to heat up.

 

Dollar Generals are popping up everywhere.  The nearest one to me is on a state highway which does have a shoulder but not a sidewalk.  Not exactly pedestrian friendly. 

 

One of the best programs of which I am aware is the SNAP cooking/finance class being offered by the health department and Cooperative Extension although the agent who does the cooking told me that she scours places large and small (Walmart, Dollar General, etc.) to make sure that ingredients are readily available for her recipes.

 

I am so grateful for the choices I have and the finances that make a comfortable life possible.

Edited April 3, 2016 by Jane in NC

[Jane in NC]

I grew up on reduced lunch. I have a comfortable life for many reasons...I paid attention to teacher and didnt sass her, I worked hard at school, and my elders provided high quality k-12, scholarships and a reasonable cost of rental for college and taught me the difference between a need and a want.i cook because I was educated to know the nutritional and financial value of cooking vs high salt convenience.because of my education, I didnt need to pay someone to teach me...just needed a library card and a cookbook if I was branching out from what was taught at school and home,

 

 

From about the age of 11 or 12, I could take the city bus by myself to the downtown library. I agree that a library card is a powerful and wonderful thing!  But many rural communities don't have libraries--or transportation to libraries.  Do bookmobiles still exist? 

Edited April 3, 2016 by Jane in NC

[Granny_Weatherwax]

From about the age of 11 or 12, I could take the city bus by myself to the downtown library. I agree that a library card is a powerful and wonderful thing!  But many rural communities don't have libraries--or transportation to libraries.  Do bookmobiles still exist? 

I haven't seen a bookmobile in years.  I used to love riding my bike to the bookmobile and loading up the basket.  The bookmobile and the school library were my keys to the world.  They were the norm for me; I never realized what a real library was until I was in upper elementary.

 

I remember the first time I walked into the Colorado Springs main library downtown.  OMG, I was in heaven.  It was a class field trip and we had ridden the busses downtown (which in and of itself was freaking awesome).  There are statues in the courtyard and the entryway had a large central checkout desk and was filled with hustle and bustle. The children's area had a stage for puppet shows and a huge (and I mean huge) guinea pig cage was there with a couple of guineas to watch. I remember feeling awed and overwhelmed and I never wanted to leave.  I also remember crying because we were only allowed to check out one book and I had a stack of treasures to take with me. I think that was the first time I was reprimanded for misbehavior.

 

It was years before I ever made it back downtown.  

Edited April 3, 2016 by ScoutermominIL

[Arcadia]

Do bookmobiles still exist?

Bookmobiles still exist here in the SF bay area.

[Guest]

yes, a Bookmobile comes to our co-op many Fridays.

[LucyStoner]

The idea that food is supposed to be easy and quick do get is not normal for human history. Historically, and even today in much of the world, you go (usually on foot) to the market and buy what you're going to cook each day. It's not a 2 minute walk (or drive) either.

 

The city near me was somehow labeled as a food desert despite the fact that you can easily walk to an Aldi or a Dave's from any and every home address. I don't get it. Actually the food is easier to get there than in the surrounding suburbs and certainly the rural areas.

 

Another unrelated point - delivery - nowadays you can get many kinds of healthy foods delivered via regular mail/delivery services. Obviously not things like milk and eggs, but many food options are healthy and shelf-stable enough that delivery is a meaningful option. Actually you could probably even get shelf-stable milk nowadays, in those packages that don't need refrigeration.

 

And as for government cheese, we really liked the cheese we got. It isn't terrible food at all. We were very thankful for it.

 

I'm sorry for those whose parents didn't / don't prioritize the health of the children in their care. :( I was very lucky in that both of my parents put the kids first.

 

So you family never took help and did it all of your own, with no childcare and a baby sister who could get her own breakfast at age 2 or younger and you liked the cheese you got. Your father is alternately described by you as an engineer or struggling factory or other blue collar worker his whole life.

 

No one said the cheese was bad but I can assure you when government commodities (which are no longer done the same way, government cheese is a thing of the past) form a large part of your diet, the taste, textures and smells which did vary quite a bit from commercial products stick with you. Eating the same things over and over forms strong memories.

 

What commodities did you recieve besides the infamous cheese and what was the mechanism for recieving it where you lived?

[LucyStoner]

From about the age of 11 or 12, I could take the city bus by myself to the downtown library. I agree that a library card is a powerful and wonderful thing! But many rural communities don't have libraries--or transportation to libraries. Do bookmobiles still exist?

Our county has 1-2 bookmobiles that swing by the far out suburban subsidized housing and small cores of lower income areas not near a branch.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I had to Google Pikes Peak Library District and they still have a bookmobile program.  I'm happy the city still provides this service.

 

There are many more branch libraries, too, so access to programs and services has quadrupled.  Go Colorado Springs!

[Granny_Weatherwax]

 

No one said the cheese was bad but I can assure you when government commodities (which are no longer done the same way, government cheese is a thing of the past) form a large part of your diet, the taste, textures and smells which did vary quite a bit from commercial products stick with you. Eating the same things over and over forms strong memories.

 

 

 Yup and let's not talk about powdered milk...

 

 On good days we would use a gallon of real milk mixed with two gallons of powdered milk in an attempt to make it taste better.

On bad days, it was just the powdered milk which was more like white water.  But it looked like milk, kind of.

[LisaKinVA]

Yup and let's not talk about powdered milk...

 

On good days we would use a gallon of real milk mixed with two gallons of powdered milk in an attempt to make it taste better.

On bad days, it was just the powdered milk which was more like white water. But it looked like milk, kind of.

Powdered milk...oh the memories.

 

When things got tight, the food budget was always the first thing cut. I know many people say they can't tell the difference between store brands and name brands, but there are certain foods there are very real and distinct differences.

 

My dad always had a garden. We ate a lot of eggs. My dad would dumpster dive occasionally. There were some very lean years (7th-12th grades). My dad liked when I closed at McDonald's...back when we could bring leftovers home.

 

But I'm still not great at cooking beans. I tried adding lentils to spaghetti and chili, but they give everyone really bad gas. And we all liked that pre packaged lentil chili we got from the store. But when I try to use them...oh the pain!

[Joker]

Yup and let's not talk about powdered milk...

 

On good days we would use a gallon of real milk mixed with two gallons of powdered milk in an attempt to make it taste better.

On bad days, it was just the powdered milk which was more like white water. But it looked like milk, kind of.

Dh's family growing up only used powdered milk. He told me early on that he didn't care how poor we were but there would never be powdered milk in our house. We've been fortunate that we've never had to consider it.

[Guest]

Fat people are sometimes ashamed to be seen in public and quite justifiably feel that they are more at risk of being attacked and less able to run away from potential assailants so they are less likely to walk long distances so they get fatter so they become more ashamed and fearful so they get fatter....

[Murphy101]

In my city a kid can't get a library card without parental permission slips anymore.

 

I guess I understand why but it makes me sad bc as a kid I regularly walked 2 miles to the library by myself. If I hadn't been able to do it myself - I wouldn't have been able to get books at all. My parents couldn't have even told you where my school was.

[Arcadia]

My parents still drink powdered milk. Klim (NZ) and Dumex (MY) taste okay.

[SKL]

So you family never took help and did it all of your own, with no childcare and a baby sister who could get her own breakfast at age 2 or younger and you liked the cheese you got. Your father is alternately described by you as an engineer or struggling factory or other blue collar worker his whole life.

 

No one said the cheese was bad but I can assure you when government commodities (which are no longer done the same way, government cheese is a thing of the past) form a large part of your diet, the taste, textures and smells which did vary quite a bit from commercial products stick with you. Eating the same things over and over forms strong memories.

 

What commodities did you recieve besides the infamous cheese and what was the mechanism for recieving it where you lived?

 

One year my mom was on unemployment and this qualified us to stand in the cheese line.  Yes, my dad was a factory worker with dyslexia.  After my mom taught him to read somewhat and he passed the GED, he got electrical licenses and, when I was in high school, he (along with my mom) began to attend part-time college in the evenings, which led to his associate's in engineering.  Thus his final job title as engineer.  Not sure why you find my family's history so fascinating, but there is that part of it.

 

Never said we had no child care, whatever that (or my kid sister's kitchen skills) have to do with anything.  Like most dual-earner working class families, ours did various combinations of WAHM, babysitter, paid day care, latch key kid, and sibling sitting, depending on the ages of the kids.  Relevant to this conversation, kids were sent to go buy groceries when that made the most sense.

 

Other than the cheese, I am not sure whether we got commodities during my childhood.  They weren't always available and we didn't always qualify.  My mom tells me we were on food stamps for 3 months when I was little, but the amount of food was too much so they didn't go back for more.  We often got free or reduced-price lunches at school, depending on what was available wherever we went to school.