The long hard slog to the top - He made the team!

[lewelma]

Big update in post 51!

 

UPDATES in post 27 and 41

 

Can't really call it the race to the top, because it currently feels like a long hard slog.

 

DS just got the horrible news that he scored a 0 on the BMO2.  :crying:

 

Now, 6 out of the 12 on the NZIMO squad scored a 0 or a 1, but that did not soften the blow. He simply was expecting to do better because things had been going so well: 

 

In December, he earned a silver on the BMO1, coming in the top 40 in the UK.

His score was a 42/60 and cut off for his age was 28 for entering the BMO2. So he did really well for his age group.

His score was the top 3 in NZ

In January, he placed 4th in the NZ squad exam.

 

So a 0.  Sigh.  There are only 3 exams for team selection and he failed the first one. As he called it, "an epic fail."  

 

He has already taken the second exam, the Australian Maths Olympiad.  Unfortunately, he solved a problem during the 15 minute walk home, which was incredibly discouraging.  He thinks he did as well if not better than last year, but last year he was number 8 in NZ, and that averaged with the bottom half is not so good for being in the top 6.

 

So it is all riding on the APMO, which is a b**** of a exam.  Basically the IMO but limited to China and America, with all the other smaller pacific countries thrown in.  

 

So he is expecting not to make the team this year. Obviously not a huge deal given his age, but I think getting 3rd and 4th going into the squad set his expectations of making the team of 6. But these harder exams are, well, harder.

 

The competition at the top is always fierce, but it is hard for this proud mama.  Shouldn't be, but it is. Managing emotions and expectations in a teen who is so driven, is hard.  Trying to say 'I believe in you' while concurrently saying 'it's ok if you don't make it' is tricky. These competitions are so good for him, but also so incredibly hard. 

 

We are expecting the results of the AMO anytime now....

 

Ruth in NZ 

Edited April 7, 2016 by lewelma

[Loesje22000]

:grouphug:

[Arcadia]

:grouphug:

Kevin Shen (NZ,year 13) is much older than your child. The UK top scorers for BMO2 are much older too. He has years ahead of him while these guys would age out.

E.g

Warren Li Is 19, Joe Benton is 18 , and Harvey Yau is 17 assuming they each have a birthday since IMO 2015

[Mike in SA]

Tough, but every low is simply the start of the trek to a new high.

 

Don't forget to celebrate all of his successes to date.  He has done an amazing job.  I hope he can relax and enjoy the next round.  Have fun, give it a crack, and be happy no matter what.  He has already proven himself many times over.

 

 

( In case he is reading - I can't remember exactly, but I think I scored an 8 the first time I took the Putnam - out of 120.  I couldn't tell whether I should be humiliated, or laugh at the ridiculous severity of the test.  Turns out I was in the top half of scorers that year.  The next year, I decided to accept the competition for the sheer joy of it, and scored in the 40s - placing in the top 5%. Still not great, but you get the point.  Sometimes we're "on," and sometimes we aren't, but we can always appreciate the experience. )

 

 

 

[edited typo]

Edited February 20, 2016 by Mike in SA

[wintermom]

Tough, but every low is simply the start of the trek to a new high.

 

Don't forget to celebrate all of his successes to date.  He has done an amazing job.  I hope he can relax and enjoy the next round.  Have fun, give it a crack, and be happy no matter what.  He is already proven himself many times over.

 

 

( In case he is reading - I can't remember exactly, but I think I scored an 8 the first time I took the Putnam - out of 120.  I couldn't tell whether I should be humiliated, or laugh at the ridiculous severity of the test.  Turns out I was in the top half of scorers that year.  The next year, I decided to accept the competition for the sheer joy of it, and scored in the 40s - placing in the top 5%. Still not great, but you get the point.  Sometimes we're "on," and sometimes we aren't, but we can always appreciate the experience. )

 

:iagree:   So true!  It happens to us all, thoughout our lives. So tough as a parent to watch from the sidelines, and even more challenging for your ds. He's getting so many amazing learning opportunities, though, and will be stronger and more mentally prepared for each future experience.

 

Huge congratulations for all his hard work so far, and for all the support you provide!  :hurray:

[Kathy in Richmond]

More :grouphug: for you both!

 

Remember that at this level, there will always be ups & downs, especially when each exam only has a handful of problems. Some exams will resonate more with his particular skills and insights. APMO was a beast here for my ds. Putnam was better. But...there will always be good & bad days when you reach that high. Remember that it takes courage and amazing skill level just to be where he is now!

 

It's a long journey, and your ds is still on the young end. I expect he will be back on top of his game again soon. :)

 

As always, best wishes!

[Dmmetler]

Hugs!!

 

It's hard to strike that balance. I think you're doing an amazing job!

 

My husband has been known to pull out his Putnam papers to show DD that you're not going to always get a perfect score...or anywhere close to it. It's a little harder for me to do so because by college I was just focusing on music, but I have some less than stellar juries, including one as a vocalist at age 16 that basically said "focus on your instruments, kid!"

 

 

It's tough. Hugs to him!

[Donna]

:grouphug:   

[Lilaclady]

Hugs to you both. Your son is doing amazingly great and I am just cheering him on from this side.

 

It is tough though but I figure it may be better to have the ups and downs when he is younger and can process it better.

 

It is great to have you there to guide and encourage him. I am so glad you share the highs and lows with us as they are so encouraging. I wish him the very best going forward. He is a hard worker and I don't have any doubt that he will rise to the challenge and do well going forward.

 

Math competitions can be a beast and like a pp mentioned each one can play to ones strength or weakness. You just never know going in

[Gil]

Best of luck on your sons remaining exams.

 

I'll keep my fingers cross for you both.

 

 

[SeaConquest]

:grouphug: I am amazed by his resilience. 

[mathmarm]

:grouphug:

 

Your sons accomplishments are nothing short of amazing. Just qualifying to take the exams that your son is taking is a lot harder than many people would believe. He has won a lot more than just math contests in his short life. He's got a lot further to go, but you have complete and utter faith in his abilities and that support is what he'll see, no matter what you have to say to help him through the moment.

 

:grouphug: You're both doing a phenomenal job.

Edited February 20, 2016 by mathmarm

[lewelma]

Thanks guys for all your positive thoughts.  DS has clearly spent some time thinking through this disappointment because he told me last week that he does better on exams that are in the middle of the NZ school year rather than the ones over the summer. He thinks he was not on his game because he had not had a power week the week before each of these exams, like he had for the BMO1 and the squad exam.  Pretty good metacognition from my point of view. :thumbup1:  And something that is incredibly easy to fix.  I suggested that he just shift half of his summer to February next year, and do two weeks of standard school work during the two weeks of the BMO2 and AMO. 

 

The other thing that has happened since the 'epic fail' is that he is starting to make some flash cards for obscure theorems, to help him memorize rules he understands but does not have at the tip of his tongue during the exams.  I had suggested this last year, but he was not interested; but now he seems to have revisited the idea and is self-motivated to implement it.  And what was even more interesting to me was that he could not figure out how to make the cards. :blink: The theorems have no names, and he couldn't figure out how to make cards that would actually be useful.  So I suggested a global card with short made-up names of the theorems to memorize as a group, and then single cards with details for each.  He had never thought of the global card, so couldn't figure out how the individual cards would do anything more than trigger the details if someone told him to use that theorem.  But coming up with the possible theorems that might be useful is really what is the most important. 

 

The other thing I'm wondering about is that he can clearly do the easier problems, but not the harder problems.  So I asked him if he should at least attempt 1 IMO problem each week, and study the solutions if he can't do it.  His approach has always been to never peak at the answers, and work for 10 hours if that was what was required.  But I'm wondering if he might need to build up his storehouse of ideas for how to approach a problem by studying more answers after giving a problem a reasonable go but not a beat-your-head-against-a -brick-wall kind of go.  

 

The other thing that was not exactly discouraging, but definitely gave pause, was that 7 out of 12 of the squad members this year were juniors (first year at the camp regardless of age).  In the past only 1 or 2 juniors got into the squad.  What appears to have happened, is that the competition has doubled due to the new Math Olympiad Student Association's lower level exams.  In NZ there simply is not the man power for exams like the mathcounts, AMC, AIME, etc.  Here, the first exam is the Camp Selection exam which is all proof based so designed like the USAMO just easier.  Without the previous easier exams to draw kids in, fewer kids have had the skill level or interest to try for the camp.  But the new student association (full of past IMO team members and others) has been up and running for 2 years now, and this year there were double the number of kids who did the Camp Selection exam, and that filtered into double the competition for the squad, and now double the competition for the team.  I've told ds that all this doesn't really matter, because if he made the team this year because the competition was less then he would likely fail the IMO anyway.  Better to represent NZ when you can be assured of at least an Honorable Mention.  This he got.  They've already asked the squad to all join the student association and help out, so after the APMO, I'm going to push a bit and get ds to join.  I have no idea what he can do to help, but it will be a good experience regardless. 

 

 

Edited February 20, 2016 by lewelma

[quark]

Sorry I missed this thread! Others have already said what I wanted to. Would it help for him to know that the kids on the top also slogged long and hard and that he is already on his way there because he has the foundation and perseverance? And that there are a whole bunch of us here so proud of him and rooting for him?

 

:grouphug: The most resilient are the ones taking a beating and still not giving up. He is such an amazing kid. :grouphug:

[Arcadia]

On the bright side the New Zealand Mathematical Olympiad Student Association might end up providing your son with more intellectual peers.

 

They have a YouTube channel with a few vidoes currently.

 

Good luck for both your boys for different reasons.

 

ETA:

Video link. The circle one reminds me of ViHart

http://www.nzmosa.org/our-videos/

Edited February 20, 2016 by Arcadia

[ebunny]

:grouphug:

I try to think of failures as battle scars. It helps take the sting off a little and is a reminder that I still have fight left in me.

Edited February 21, 2016 by ebunny

[lewelma]

Well, I did remind him that he scored a 1 out of 60 on the BMO1 2 years ago.  A 28 the second year, and a 42 the third year.  

 

I just went back into the archives, and found my first big post about this journey.  Changing focus: our journey in realigning priorities.  

http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/490568-changing-focus-our-journey-in-realigning-priorities/

 

Can't believe it but this was just October 2013.  Just over 2 years ago!

 

post 1: (just a piece of the long first post): It all began this time last November when my son was preparing for the ABRSM grade 5 exam (this is approximately a 10th grade exam and he was in 6th grade then). We had just switched teachers (again) and begun with the concert master of the NZ symphony orchestra. My son was in a audition-only chamber group sponsored by the local university, and we decided to use the tutor (a pianist) as the accompanist for the ABRSM exam.  After they had practiced, the accompanist ( who is very accomplished and regularly features as the pianist with the symphony) asked my son about his goals. He said he wanted to be a mathematician.  And she was *shocked*.  I was there, and she was really shocked!  She turned to me and said, "but you are doing all the right things to have a career in music!?!?" 

 

I went home and really thought about this response.  I talked to my dh, and we realized that we had been spending all our extra time and money improving his musical skill, and no time or money improving his math skill.  And he wants to be a mathematician.  I posted here at that time, and Kathy in Richmond suggested the NZ math olympiad summer camp.  I talked to my son and he was keen.

 

......

 

We will submit his answers tomorrow.  He has completed all 6 junior problems (he thinks he knows which are which), and 3 of the 6 senior problems.  I asked him if he thought they were correct, and he said "well of course, I *proved* them."  He will be submitting 27 pages of proofs!

And now we wait.  Selection to the camp will be announced in late November.  Only 24 high school students are chosen from the entire country.  We hope it will be our son.

 

 

post 18: We just heard.  DS got into the NZ math olympiad summer camp!

 

post 20:they are having him take the British Math Olympiad in 2 weeks. Given that it took him 60 hours for the NZ math olympiad, he is running a bit scared about 3.5 hours for the British MO!

 

post 41:  eeek.  Just looked at the entrance criteria for the BMO and it is a test given to 16-19 year olds.  Um, ds is 13.

 

freerange post 42: I'd be   :willy_nilly: and   :unsure: , not to mention needing a very large mug of coffee & a chocolate biscuit!  Could they perhaps mean the Intermediate Olympiad? 

 

post 44: That is about the way I am feeling.  It is definitely the BMO. 

 

post 54: We have decided to see if we can get a face to face talk with the deputy IMO leader this week (who lives in town).  DS has met with him before, and he is very nice.  We need to know what the purpose is for him taking a formal exam so soon and what kind of expectations they have given his age.  

 

post 59: Yesterday, dh talked to the deputy IMO team leader -  apparently it was a wonderful talk. I am just too close to it, and was second guessing every single thing that I would say, so dh just did it for me!  The team leader said that 100% of the camp kids decided to take the BMO and that the NZMO committee expects that some of the juniors will score 0 points. 

 

post 69: And the results for the BMO (drum roll please......): my ds earned 1 point out of 60  :tongue_smilie:  Luckily, so did his room mate.  There is always next year.  :001_smile:

 

.....

 

2 years later he earned a Silver. :thumbup1:   

 

 

Edited February 21, 2016 by lewelma

[Black-eyed Suzan]

It sounds like he is doing just the right thing - learning from a failure, regrouping, and trying again.

 

And how nice that you have your posts about the journey! I often find that I raise the bar in my head and forget how far my son has come in a relatively short time. Thank you for sharing with us.

 

Best wishes for the next stage! 

[pinewarbler]

I love the battle scars analogy.. I am using that!

 

My eldest missed the cutoff for 3 academic events that she wanted (and had worked very hard for) in the last 2 weeks alone; I wish they hadn't all fallen in the same time frame. Matters were made worse when a good friend (who didn't care if she got in and didn't prep) was chosen instead. It was a prestigious position and won't be available again. In this case, none of them had to do with eldest's performance, but that doesn't take the sting out. I'm trying to focus on her bravery (to try something many do not) and her perseverance (the crying lasted only 2 days and then she picked herself up and kept going).

 

It's a good reminder to review past achievements in a way that they're reminded of all the hard work (and sometimes luck) that it took. I need to do that more.

 

It is hard on the moms!!!

[abba12]

I am so, insanely jealous of your son right now.

 

Can you indulge me in a little self pity for a moment? When I was 14 I scored a perfect score in what was, at the time, I think called the Australian Informatics Competition (it looks like it might now be what's called the CAT? at the time it was basically a test for programming aptitude using math, for kids who hadn't had the opportunity to learn actual programming to enter the AIO, I think I took it in it's inaugural year). I also scored high distinctions, top 1 or 2%, on the UNSW Mathematics competitions every year since I was, like, 8. Oh everyone was 'so proud', I was in the paper and got a fancy award from my school at the time. And then it was never spoken of again.

 

My parents were very pleased with all these high test results, because they'd mean I could be an awesome accountant one day! They decided that must be the dream, because I 'liked numbers', and accounting was 'all about numbers', plus it paid well, much better than silly things like being a mathematician, which, to them, was like dreaming of being a rock star. A goal that could never go anywhere. My school wouldn't do anything further, they didn't have the facilities. Thank the Lord I rebelled and outright refused to study accounting in any form, much to my parents serious disappointment that they hold to this day. (if you'd studied accounting you could be doing bookkeeping from home or something even with the kids, you wasted your potential)

 

After the test I ended up on the AIO forums, and met a whole heap of kids chatting about their awesome robotics classes and the programming camp they were going to. I told my parents I wanted to learn programming so I could enter the AIO the following year and maybe qualify for a camp. They spoke to the distance school I was going to by that point, and eventually convinced them to enroll me in the year 11 IPT course, despite being in year 10, where I spent an entire year learning Delphi Pascal (so not even real Pascal, let alone a 'real' language like one of the C variations). I learned it SO well that I could program a whole working program of the game Yahtzee by the end of the year using a million if-then statements! [/sarcasm]. Oh yes, and my mother 'taught' me HTML, by which I mean, I memorized the codes for bold, italics and underlines, and colour. I tried to learn C++ myself, more than once, but on top of my other course workloads and with no support whatsoever ("you already know how to program! This just looks like a harder way of doing what you already know") that fizzled pretty quickly, and I gave up on ever being able to take the AIO, let alone go to a camp, or take a robotics class. There's only so much you can do as a 15yo in either public, or home, school. The disappointment from that was a big part of the reason I dropped out in year 11, after discovering the IPT class would only teach SQL the next year, and my math teacher decided if I couldn't see well enough to read the graphs for trig (I'm legally blind) I should go back to consumer math. 

 

Anyway, the point of my little pity party here (thanks for indulging me) is to say, you're an awesome mum working through this process and supporting your kid through it. It's overwhelming, I've looked at it as an adult wondering if any of my own kids will get to do what I didn't, and it's just... wow, so big! lol. And that you're supporting him even when the test results aren't what he hoped is even better. I guess I wanted to encourage you that no matter how this works out you've given your son an opportunity that many kids will never have, and I hope he appreciates it when he's all grown up too. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by abba12

[lewelma]

What a story.  Such disappointment. Big hugs to you   :grouphug:

 

And thanks for all the kind words.  I do what I can with the help of the people on this board. I am seriously in over my head.  The year we made the big switch in focus, I worked *with* my ds to get him up to writing proofs for competition-level math. Neither of us had any clue how to do the problems or what techniques were possible.  I did all the work, side by side with him, and after he got into the camp that first year, I was completely spent.  I had a terrible case of burn out for over a year, which left me a shadow of myself.  Luckily, since then, AoPS has taken over and I can just be chief cheerleader and organizer rather than teacher and mentor.  :001_smile:

 

found my post from 3 years ago about this work! "A small math success but huge for us":  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/468033-a-small-math-success-but-huge-for-us/

Edited February 25, 2016 by lewelma

[Nan in Mass]

Just wondering... Does he think better when moving?

 

Nan

[quark]

I love the battle scars analogy.. I am using that!

 

My eldest missed the cutoff for 3 academic events that she wanted (and had worked very hard for) in the last 2 weeks alone; I wish they hadn't all fallen in the same time frame. Matters were made worse when a good friend (who didn't care if she got in and didn't prep) was chosen instead. It was a prestigious position and won't be available again. In this case, none of them had to do with eldest's performance, but that doesn't take the sting out. I'm trying to focus on her bravery (to try something many do not) and her perseverance (the crying lasted only 2 days and then she picked herself up and kept going).

 

It's a good reminder to review past achievements in a way that they're reminded of all the hard work (and sometimes luck) that it took. I need to do that more.

 

I'm so sorry this happened. Couldn't have been easy with the friend being chosen. But she's such a trooper! She did the harder thing a second time (picking herself up and moving on)!

[lewelma]

Just wondering... Does he think better when moving?

 

Nan

 

Hey, Nan, do you mean my son?

[Nan in Mass]

Hey, Nan, do you mean my son?

Yes. You said he solved a problem walking home. Not the same sort of problem, but my family recently discovered that we think better while moving - walking or even driving. I just wondered if the walk had anything to do with when your son solved the problem, or whether it was more a matter of time to think (or not think) about it.

 

Nan

[lewelma]

We just found out that DS got a Silver in the Australian Maths Olympiad!!  

 

#4 for NZ.  

 

He is back in the competition for the team!  Woohoo!

Edited March 2, 2016 by lewelma

[Laura Corin]

We just found out that DS got a Silver in the Australian Maths Olympiad!!  

 

#4 for NZ.  

 

He is back in the competition for the team!  Woohoo!

 

Amazing!

[Mike in SA]

We just found out that DS got a Silver in the Australian Maths Olympiad!!  

 

#4 for NZ.  

 

He is back in the competition for the team!  Woohoo!

 

Fingers crossed!

[Kathy in Richmond]

Congrats & best of luck moving forward to the NZ team!!

[Miss Tick]

Wow, what a swing of emotions. It sounds like he has learned a lot (of intangibles) from this roller-coaster. Congratulations to him.

[wintermom]

Wonderful news!!!! :hurray:   Thanks for updating us.

[mathnerd]

Yay! Congratulations!!! So happy to see the update.

[Grover]

yay!!!

[maize]

Huge congratulations!!!

[quark]

Wow wow wow!!! Really should check here more often. So wonderful to hear. Go Ruth. Go Ruth's son!!

[Lilaclady]

Congratulations. That's awesome !!!!!!

[SeaConquest]

How awesome! What a roller coaster ride you both are on!

[Eagle]

Congratulations to your ds!!! :hurray:

[Donna]

Congratulations to your ds! Awesome!

[lewelma]

He's in there right now. Gulp. Waiting is so hard.

 

He doesn't know it yet, but he accidentally packed his younger brother rain jacket. It is supposed to bucket rain right when he gets out and my car is in the shop. So he is going to be seriously wet. 😜

[lewelma]

Well, he came home very pleased.  He thinks he might have gotten a 4!  I was like  :confused1: . Isn't it out of 35?  Well, yes.  But apparently a 4 is a respectable score.  :huh:

 

For one problem, he thinks he had a complete solution with a serious flaw rather than a partial solution that was complete, and *that* is the difference between a 4 and a 3.  

 

So now we wait.  :chillpill:

[maize]

It's hard to compete in something where results take a long time! Sports and music competitions don't make you wait long for your results :)

 

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[Julie of KY]

Good luck. It is a hard emotional roller coaster aiming for the top.

[lewelma]

We were supposed to hear yesterday about team selection. DS has been checking email every hour.  Nothing.

 

I'm mostly like  :toetap05: but I have a hint of  :001_unsure:

[kiwik]

Well done.  It would be nice if such things were reported on more often though.  I have lived in NZ all my life and never knew there was a NZ team until your posts.

[daijobu]

I'm joining this late, but it's just so darn ironic that a student at his elite level would score a zero on anything.  Even though we all know how brilliant  and hard working you have to be to reach his level of achievement.  I get it, the problems are hard, it's an achievement to even solve a single one.  But it's just plain wrong to give anyone a zero when they've accomplished so much.  They may be elite, but they are still--well--children after all, aren't they?  (Even the AMC 12's have a few softballs at the start to make everyone feel like they belong.)  

[Mike in SA]

I'm joining this late, but it's just so darn ironic that a student at his elite level would score a zero on anything.  Even though we all know how brilliant  and hard working you have to be to reach his level of achievement.  I get it, the problems are hard, it's an achievement to even solve a single one.  But it's just plain wrong to give anyone a zero when they've accomplished so much.  They may be elite, but they are still--well--children after all, aren't they?  (Even the AMC 12's have a few softballs at the start to make everyone feel like they belong.)  

 

I get it, but these things aren't like other annual competitions.  The problems are HARD - designed to be solved only by the best in the field (at any age).  Those who score well aren't just the best for that year...

 

Given sufficient time, I would expect a good mathematician to solve all of the problems, but that's the catch - there isn't enough time.  If your intuition is solid the day of the test, you do well.  If you are relying on experience, you may be in for a rough day.

 

 

I think it's fantastic that he came back and did well enough to get back into the running!  i sure hope he makes it, but if not, he is still showing an awful lot of promise!  Maturity does matter, and he's got some time left for that.  ;)

[eternalsummer]

Probably part of it is that the BMO at least is written for a population of 60 million or so (? assuming it is just the UK and some NZ students) and the APMO for a population of well over a billion; NZ's population is very small, relatively (just 4 million).  There has to be room to differentiate at the top.

 

 

[lewelma]

The main problem we have had with the zeros over the past 3 years is with his perception of what is a good percentage score in his regular school work. He started taking these competition exams before he had ever taken a single test for school.  We are just not a testing family.  When we started prepping for his Calculus and Physics exams (like APs but only essays) last year, he thought that 50% was a good score.  It took me a couple of months to convince him that for regular school exams the goal was 100% for a high achiever. 

 

Surprisingly, the zeros don't really shake him up too much.  He understands that there is always an element of luck.  He did expect to do better on the BMO2 because he was around number 40 in the UK for the BMO1, but he mis-read the first problem (apparently lots of kids did because it was kind of missing a word), and the second problem just happened to be on his weakest area. These things happen.  But I do understand what you are saying, a zero just seems so wrong.  But for kids at this level, they can't put in a few easy ones to make the median score like 70%, because then they won't have enough space to differentiate the top. DS is appropriately placed for the BMO2 and AMO, but he really shouldn't be taking the APMO because he is not at that level.  

[lewelma]

DS made the team!  He is going to represent NZ at the IMO in Hong Kong in July!  

 

I just want to put in a heartfelt thanks for all the support you guys have given me during this 3-year long journey. :001_wub: