Now my kid is rethinking majoring in elementary education...

[JFSinIL]

thanks to Common Core Math, or whatever it is that she has to learn to teach. I homeschooled her for most of her elementary years in large part to avoid the new-fangled math, and I must have done something right as she excelled in algebra and calc. etc. in high school, got an A in AP Calc., too. But now she is faced with her first homework in a class designed to teach her how to teach math and she is LOST. She may be rethinking becoming a teacher now that she is facing trying to wrap her mind around the ludicrous textbook.

Edited January 24, 2016 by JFSinIL

[Dmmetler]

The good news is that it's cyclic and by the time she graduates, it's likely it will be shifting the other way again. We're about at an extreme right now. Or, as my cooperating teacher for my ESL practicum put it-when the pendulum has hit you in the head three times, it's time to consider retiring.

[JFSinIL]

It is a required class for her major, so either she has to figure it out or change majors. Not a happy kid...but she understands now why I used "normal" math in our homeschool.

Edited January 24, 2016 by JFSinIL

[Anne in CA]

This is yucky, I'm sorry. I hope she can figure it out because I am sure she would be a super teacher! To be honest this sort of thing is why I don't teach even though I LOVE kids. Lots of people have chastised me thinking I should be a teacher in ps since I am so good with groups of kids in Sunday School, ect, but I could not put up with the other stuff that isn't about the kids. I never could have emailed a nurse while a student was having an asthma attack, no matter what the policy was, and I could not teach something I think is not "normal".

[Liz CA]

If she can get past this course, could she teach at private schools that do not necessarily embrace Common Core? Or how about setting her sights on becoming a college math professor? Colleges need good professors to teach math & physics.

[Word Nerd]

That sounds like a textbook problem, not a Common Core problem. They're a set of standards, and they do not dictate how they are to be met. How CC standards are implemented depends on the textbook, curriculum, teachers, and schools. There's no such thing as a single, universal "Common Core math."

Edited January 24, 2016 by Word Nerd

[NorthwestMom]

thanks to Common Core Math, or whatever it is that she has to learn to teach. I homeschooled her for most of her elementary years in large part to avoid the new-fangled math, and I must have done something right as she excelled in algebra and calc. etc. in high school, got an A in AP Calc., too. But now she is faced with her first homework in a class designed to teach her how to teach math and she is LOST. She may be rethinking becoming a teacher now that she is facing trying to wrap her mind around the ludicrous textbook.

 

Gently: Excelling in math and TEACHING others math are totally different things. Teaching is difficult. Also, new strategies/approaches/methods come around with numbing regularity in teaching. She cannot expect to teach math for her entire career the way she was taught. If she isn't willing to put in the persistence to learn the current strategies for teaching math, this profession is not going to work out for her. 

 

There are lots of great careers besides teaching that a math degree will qualify her for.

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

That sounds like a textbook problem, not a Common Core problem. They're a set of standards, and they do not dictate how they are to be met. How CC standards are implemented depends on the textbook, curriculum, teachers, and schools. There's no such thing as a single, universal "Common Core math."

 

This.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I hope she doesn't give up over one class. She can do it, she just may have to approach it in another way.

[gardenmom5]

thanks to Common Core Math, or whatever it is that she has to learn to teach. I homeschooled her for most of her elementary years in large part to avoid the new-fangled math, and I must have done something right as she excelled in algebra and calc. etc. in high school, got an A in AP Calc., too. But now she is faced with her first homework in a class designed to teach her how to teach math and she is LOST. She may be rethinking becoming a teacher now that she is facing trying to wrap her mind around the ludicrous textbook.

 

I discouraged a child from being a teacher - because they're paid squat and even many parents treat them with little or even no respect.

 

as math curriculum changes, it's not uncommon to be confusing to someone using a different type of curriculum.  doens't matter what the curriculum is. (this is a PREcommon core incident. from at least 16 years ago.) 1dd ignored her teachers, read the textbook, and breezed through math.  2dd had questions - and I told her to go ask her sister, who'd had calc much more recently.  welll, in the three years between the two - the school changed their math curriculum.  1dd took a look at the book and started cursing the curriculum 2dd was using.  (I've an engineer friend who was cursing it too. he even had the joy to telling the teacher - according to the curriculum, the teachers did NOT care if the students got the right answer - that if HIS math was wrong, the plane would crash. it was a complete garbage math curriculum!) 

[HomeAgain]

I've looked over many of the Common Core aligned textbooks, and if your daughter can figure out how to explore math, she'll do well deciphering what they want her to do.  Miquon, MUS Delta/Gamma, and Right Start would help.

 

FWIW, I'm so glad I sent my son to school just for his math teacher.  The rest I don't really feel do their subjects justice, but his math teacher is quick, concise, teaches from multiple angles, and shows the kids how to apply the subject in real life.  It doesn't matter how the book teaches it, though the kids learn that along with faster methods.  I could not have asked for a better high school course for my son.

[Ali in OR]

I enjoy teaching math. When faced with a curriculum I don't agree with, I figure out what concept they are trying to get at and can usually figure out a way to explain it (and explain what they're probably leaving out or confusing also). I would try to view the textbook in that light--how to better explain what they're doing.

 

Where I taught, I had certain books that I needed to use, but I had final authority in my classroom over what assignments were given, what was on a test, how much to mark off for various errors, etc. I'm sure that in many places teachers do not have that authority anymore, but I know that in many places they do. It would be important for me, and maybe for your dd, to find a job where she would have some autonomy and would be treated as the professional she is.

[Farrar]

While I disagree with some of the directions that many of the textbooks have gone in response to the CC standards, I think a good math teacher can look at the text, figure it out, and understand its intention and how to do it. Even a lot of the stuff I see where I'm like, good grief, that's a terrible example, I can see what they were trying to do and could potentially make it work by using different examples, adding explanations, manipulatives, etc.

 

Basically, I think if she can't figure it out, then she's not cut out for elementary math anyway. And that's fine. There's plenty of good careers for a math lover.

[Gil]

thanks to Common Core Math, or whatever it is that she has to learn to teach. I homeschooled her for most of her elementary years in large part to avoid the new-fangled math, and I must have done something right as she excelled in algebra and calc. etc. in high school, got an A in AP Calc., too. But now she is faced with her first homework in a class designed to teach her how to teach math and she is LOST. She may be rethinking becoming a teacher now that she is facing trying to wrap her mind around the ludicrous textbook.

Teaching math is not the same thing as learning it. I have heard, anecdotally, that teaching a subject well can be incredibly difficult for those who just "get" the subject.

 

Honestly, educational fads come and go so frequently that it isn't worth getting in a tizzy over. If she wants to do elementary education, then she should exercise every ounce of grit that she has where this (and similar) class(es) is(are) concerned. What she needs to do is--prior to reading her textbook, break down each sub-skill as its encountered and do several elementary level exercises and ask herself "whats happening here and why does it have to happen?"

 

Once she thinks about it for a few minutes and justifies each step of the algorithms, then read the textbook for that skill and try to map all the lingo/jargon to the concept that she just revisited. Follow the text as best she can and using what she just did ask herself--what is the textbook asking of the students here and why are they requiring the students to do this?

 

No matter how convoluted the textbook may be, it is trying to make some point. Its her job to root it out. If she takes it one subtopic/lesson at a time she'll be just fine. Honestly, I don't know anything about them--except that several people have gotten in an uproar over them but just look at it like this:

 

The CC standards are just standards--while they may be being poorly implemented in some overzealous schools/publishers, they aren't all that revolutionary. This is the same thing that happens every what 3-8 years in public education?

[NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too]

I'm pretty sure that most parents here were not taught elementary school level concepts in the same fashion as they are taught using Singapore Math, Right Start or Miquon Math, but many of us plowed through these non-standard curriculum and used the to teach our children.

 

If you want to be a teacher, you have to be able to use a variety of methods because you won't be able to teach every child using the same method. The more methods you learn, the more tools you have available to get the job done.

 

Best of luck to your daughter as she sorts through this dilemma.

 

K

[Lucy the Valiant]

(Throwing this out there for what it's worth - it's well-intentioned, so please don't throw tomatoes.)

 

As a certified school teacher now homeschooling (while also teaching home school high school classes), I have seen many home school kids go to college to major in education for the primary reason that they loved their own education, not realizing how galaxies-removed their own education was from what goes on in many public school classrooms. It's an understandable but poorly-researched decision, many times, confusing education with schooling.

 

I've also seen it work out well, too; it's obviously a multi-faceted decision, of course. (This is meant as an encouragement, not a discouragement - our nation needs enthusiastic and well-trained teachers! And there's more than one reason to get an education degree. Just throwing out the idea for consideration.)

[Crimson Wife]

I've looked over many of the Common Core aligned textbooks, and if your daughter can figure out how to explore math, she'll do well deciphering what they want her to do.  Miquon, MUS Delta/Gamma, and Right Start would help.

 

Not necessarily. I've taught Right Start, Singapore, and Math Mammoth K-8th grade level and quite frequently I can't figure out what the K & now 1st grade Common Core homework my PS child brings home wants her to do. It's like whoever wrote the worksheets looked at RS/MM/Singapore but didn't actually understand it so while there are superficial similarities, the CC problems are so poorly written that they're unclear.

 

[Joyofsixreboot]

My dd dislikes it too but figured it out. She's in her 3rd year of teaching 5th grade. In after school tutoring she can break away from the curriculum and has found creative ways to incorporate traditional approaches with common core.

[bettyandbob]

Up through multi variable calc, math was very easy for me. I had to spend time relearning, so I could teach it. I've taught sp ed off and on for many years. Also, with the elementary crowd you need a good toolbox of hands on techniques. A couple years ago I took a fabulous graduate level multi sensory math class. We applied the techniques to common core and to other approaches (because not everyone teaches common core).

 

Anyway, I wanted to second that sometimes the very best performers in a subject are not always the best teachers. It may be that it's so intuitive they don't know what they did or really believe multiple steps are obvious so they cannot break it down to show the work in a problem. It may also be that the student was just excellent at memorizing algorithms and never fully mastered the reasoning behind the algorithms. At my highly competitive public ivy, most students had calculus in high school, even liberal arts students. There were plenty of people who had done quite well getting through math by memorizing algorithms without learning the reasoning.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Diana P.

[DawnM]

In applying to our local large school district, I had to write a CC lesson plan.  It stunk.  I hated it.  I haven't worked in the PS for 10 years, and haven't been in the actual classroom for 14.

 

I have never, ever studied CC, more than a passing glance to see what in the world they call education these days! (ha!)

 

I googled, I searched youtube and watched teachers teaching it, I read a few articles, I looked up lesson plans in CC.  In SOME ways, it is just the same darn thing with new buzz words and an integration of a variety of methods utilized to get the information across.  In other ways it is ridiculous.  I will admit it.  

 

Our state is getting rid of it, but they currently don't have anything to replace it with (they say!  I say just do what you were doing before CC 'till you figure it out but no one is listening to me!)

 

All that long response to say.......I think she CAN figure this out and it won't be so daunting.  She can research on her own (like I did.....lots of googling, youtube videos, etc...) and she really should also ask several in the class if they understand it and ask them to explain it to her (often I learned better from others who just learned it than from professors who use academic explanations) and then she could also ask the professor.   She could also see if there is a teacher you or she knows who she could call and ask questions to.

 

She CAN do this!  Please tell her not to be discouraged.  We need more quality teachers out there despite the bad rap they all seem to be getting.

[Guest]

Not necessarily. I've taught Right Start, Singapore, and Math Mammoth K-8th grade level and quite frequently I can't figure out what the K & now 1st grade Common Core homework my PS child brings home wants her to do. It's like whoever wrote the worksheets looked at RS/MM/Singapore but didn't actually understand it so while there are superficial similarities, the CC problems are so poorly written that they're unclear.

 

As stated above, there is no Common Core workbook. There are books (some good, some not) that align with CC standards. If you have issues with a K worksheet, your issue is with the company that made the workbook.

[Monica_in_Switzerland]

Could you get her a book like "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics" (Liping Ma) to help motivate her and clear things up from another perspective?  

[HomeAgain]

I have a set of these.  It would be a great aid to your daughter if she could find a set, too, I think.  Each card has a simple standard on it to be able to build lesson plans from.  Or, to be able to build the lesson plan, then turn around and pick out the cards that match. ;)

[Davysmom]

I don't know what class she is taking, but one that I took as elementary ed college student was designed to confuse us. It was set up to help put us in the students shoes. Its purposes was to teach us how to teach math not to teach us math. It was a crazy class, but it was a requirement.

[Lolly]

Elementary Ed math was the most frustrating class I had to take. It was also possibly the one beneficial education class that I had to take. Is this the class she is having trouble with? Back when...it wasn't common core that was being taught. The class focused on HOW math worked and WHY. We had to truly learn the how and why of what we had just being doing by rote (for most of us) for our entire lives. I was a great math student. I think that made the class even a little more difficult. I must admit that when I finished the class, I actually understood what I was doing when I was working math problems. It also truly put me in the seat of the elementary child who is trying to understand math. So, if this is the only class that is making her doubt her choice, she should push on ahead. (My dd changed from education when she realized what all she would be facing in ps.) Of course, the class may have changed completely since I took it. Most things seem to have!!!

[Katy]

This is simple.  Just have her spend all of her TV or free time also with a laptop on Khan Academy in the elementary math skills section.  They've integrated a ton of Common Core and in a week or two she'll get it.

 

It's just a different way to think about math problems, it's not difficult. 

Edited January 25, 2016 by Katy

[Farrar]

It's important to note that I was convinced at various points in my own education studies that education classes were structured and taught so as to weed out anyone who could think for themselves. Not to say I didn't have some interesting and challenging courses, but for the most part, it was a mind numbing drudgery filled with busy work and almost Kafkaesque hoops to jump through for no discernible reason. If you can't make it through that... you probably won't cut it as a public school teacher either.

[Tenaj]

I have been pleasantly surprised at my dd's reactions to her elementary education math classes at her college.  I was expecting the same response that your daughter has had, but my daughter is convinced that she'd never be able to get through these classes except for the solid base she received from our home school studies . . . are you ready . . . she used Saxon Math almost all the way through!  Math was always her least favorite subject at home but she has thanked me over and over for forcing her to do that Saxon Math . . . who knew?  In fact, she told me recently that the teaching math classes have been her favorite of the education program.  

[SparklyUnicorn]

Tell her to shoot some questions our way.  I bet some here could answer many of them.  I worked through many of these methods myself.  They aren't that bad, but yes I have seen some very convoluted explanations.

 

 

[Crimson Wife]

As stated above, there is no Common Core workbook. There are books (some good, some not) that align with CC standards. If you have issues with a K worksheet, your issue is with the company that made the workbook.

 

It's the state of NY, even though my child attends school in CA. And the district is using it because the state mandated Common Core. So yeah, I blame CCSS.

[Bluegoat]

I think for someone going into teaching, it would be important to diferentiate the small picture here from the big one.

 

The small on is that it is a particular method, and a particular text.  It may well be the case that someone in university now will never have to use those particular products.  It might also be possible to teach in different kinds of settings.  I think the main insight that might be gained here is as others mentioned - it might show that despite being good at math, teaching it isn't a great fit.  But otherwise I wouldn't make a huge change over one program.

 

The bigger picture though is about how teachers and teaching are controlled at the political level and the social role they are expected to play.  That might be a deal-breaker as a career, and indeed it seems to be something that pushes many teachers out of teaching.

[J-rap]

This is her first homework assignment in the class? I wouldn't worry about it too much. Give it another week or two and she'll probably have it figured out.