s/o people w/o college degrees. Does a degree pay off if.....

[Mrs. B]

If someone has to pay all living expenses and tuition OOP at full cost?

 

I am talking about people that don't have the option for free rent at their parents, going after a degree that doesn't allow for full time work hours, attending average colleges (not IV league), and the more common degree fields (not high end specialty areas).

 

Had I went for a degree higher than associate's, I would have been out $20,000-$80,000 for tuition and living expenses depending on if I got a bachelor's or master's and did public or private (closer to $20,000 if part time work was practical). Plus I would have given up $60,000-$120,000 in full time income during that time (high end for being out of full time work to get a master's). Also I would have had to pay all dental and health benefits OOP while not working full time. And no sick pay or vacation time accrual while not working. I probably would have made $10,000-$20,000 more/year after degree completion, but for 5-10 years that extra money would have went to pay off school loans with interest. So total out, including loss of full time income for 2-4 years, would have been $80,000-200,000 (more calculating loan interest rate) with about 7-14 years from start of seeking a higher degree before seeing a benefit to making $10,000-20,000 extra/year. Knowing I wouldn't want to be a full time career professional + parent unless financially necessary, I would have lived to see the financial benefit of the higher degree only if I didn't have children. But, had I not had children, I would not have needed the extra income that came with the higher degree.

 

The other thread got me to thinking out what I figured out long before having children. In my situation with limited outside assistance and with my skill sets, it would not have paid off to get a higher degree. Minus exceptions in competitive high end and top dollar paying careers, does the math not add up for obtaining a college degree for a majority of people who have to pay tuition and living expenses OOP or via loans for 4 or so years? That is, if they have alternate options to take on non degree jobs or associate degree jobs that pay more consiberably more than minimum wage. Jobs like police officers, firemen, HVAC techs, mechanics, store managers, dental hygienists, pharmacy techs, plumbers, pest control, professional painters, truck drivers, contractors, and such. I am beginning to think, minus scholarship or financial assistance help that the cost of a college education is over rated in many cases.

[Guest]

My master's paid off big time.

 

I covered my costs with my bachelors but that was in a different time. Back in the day when you could work minimum wage for 2 summer months, take a fun trip in the third, and do work study 15 hours s week and work it out.

 

And not to get too cranky, but "making it" after my BA did NOT include a fancy car, or a solo apartment. I'm a little crabby about all the young people in my life who whine about not being able to rent an apartment on minimum wage. No one ever could!!! I had roommates and it wasn't easy but they are still my friends 35+ years later.

 

So it kind of depends on what your requirements are for "making it" after getting a degree. I'm glad I got both my degrees, not so much because I ever USED them, but because it kept doors open for me. Especially the master's.

[Jenny in Florida]

I assume by "pay off" that you are speaking strictly financially?

 

As far as I know, all of the research that has been done on this still shows -- even with the rising cost of tuition -- that, on average, yes, people with college degrees earn more over a lifetime than those without. Of course, there is individual variation. I very well may be that my offspring, with degrees in performing arts and plans to make careers on or around stages, will earn less than someone else who is smart and motivated and chooses a career in sales or the trades or who starts his or her own business.

 

On average, though, and even if we don't take into account any benefits beyond the potential financial advantages, for most people it is "worth it."

[Liz CA]

My master's paid off big time.

 

I covered my costs with my bachelors but that was in a different time. Back in the day when you could work minimum wage for 2 summer months, take a fun trip in the third, and do work study 15 hours s week and work it out.

 

And not to get too cranky, but "making it" after my BA did NOT include a fancy car, or a solo apartment. I'm a little crabby about all the young people in my life who whine about not being able to rent an apartment on minimum wage. No one ever could!!! I had roommates and it wasn't easy but they are still my friends 35+ years later.

 

So it kind of depends on what your requirements are for "making it" after getting a degree. I'm glad I got both my degrees, not so much because I ever USED them, but because it kept doors open for me. Especially the master's.

 

Where is your "like" button???

 

[Liz CA]

Dh would likely not be working in his field without a degree and nobody would even read my resume all the way through if I applied at my job without one.

[KungFuPanda]

Still worth it.

[MomatHWTK]

I think either my degrees would have paid off and then some if I had the necessary interpersonal skills.  I did not so the education has benefitted me personally, but not really financially.  Maybe now that I'm older and wiser I could do a better job at actually being an employee than I did in my misspent youth.  :glare:

[Arcadia]

Mine was more than 20 years ago. The cost of tuition was earned back in the first year. The cost of dorm, food and miscellaneous expenses was earned back in half a year. My starting pay was double that of my younger brother who has an associates degree, both of us are engineers which is a common degree. My brother took evening classes to get his bachelors and it was worth it for the pay adjustment he got.

 

Hubby is an engineer in the tech industry. People in the 30s and 40s with an associate degree can usually get company sponsorship for a part time degree program. Most take up the sponsorship.

[Camelfeet]

Well, my degree wasn't worth it financially because I never got employment from it.  I had a baby seven days after I graduated.  I worked for a few years after that in an unrelated field, then stopped working to homeschool.  But I do not regret it because after student debt forgiveness and part time work my total amount owing was only 10k, and who knows if I will use it in the future? 

 

My spouse's degree was definitely worth it.  He managed to work part time at a grocery store and ran a couple somewhat profitable websites at the same time, so his tuition (which would have cost about just over 3k each year) was paid for through his earnings, as were his living expenses.  So he came out of it with a degree and no debt, and a bit of cash in the bank.  This degree allowed him to get a job abroad.  He is now getting a Master's degree in Ireland, which will cost about 8k euro for the complete program.  And the only reason he has to pay that much is because he isn't an EU resident/citizen.  It would be much cheaper if he were Irish.  At this point we can afford to pay for that without going into debt, and it will remove barriers to employment in the united states and parts of Asia should we decide to move there when we are tired of living in the middle east.  It will also make it more likely that he will be promoted down the line.  So, this is worth it for us although it may not pay off financially right away. 

 

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but education should be available to more people than just the wealthy, and people shouldn't have to get into life altering debt just to get a degree.  US universities and colleges are crazy expensive compared to Canada and Europe.       

[Arcadia]

He is now getting a Master's degree in Ireland, which will cost about 8k euro for the complete program.

A friend did her MBBS at Cork, Ireland more than 20 years ago and went to the states for her medical internship in pediatrics. She wanted to be a pediatrician.

[Tap]

For my dh, not having a degree costs us at least $20,000 per year.  So, yeah....it would have paid off.  :0(  

 

 

I did not complete my degree, but since I had enough credits that equaled a degree, I worked for a school district for a year.  That year alone, paid for all of my college and I could not have qualified for the job without the degree equivalent in credits..  I was asked to stay on in my position the following year, but I hated my boss, so I left and went back to pharmacy work.  I would rather deal with sick grumpy people, than her.  LOL

[Sneezyone]

Mine did, big time. My parents sent me $50/$100 every once in a while but the rest was on me. I graduated undergrad with $30K in debt. My master's was covered by retroactive VA money. At the time that seemed like a ton of debt but it took less than five years to repay. Now law school, that's another story. My first job out of college in 1998, I earned $27K. Five years later I'd doubled that.

[HS Mom in NC]

My husband got a full ride, in state scholarship and lived at home while attending college. He made a $2,000 profit by the time he graduated in 1989 with his bachelor of science degree because he didn't live on campus. (OK, he didn't actually get to keep that money but you know what I mean.) He started writing computer software at Motorola as a paid intern a year or two before he graduated from college and got hired on full time the day he graduated. He bought a car and small starter home within a few months of graduating. When we got married (he was 26 then) we had no debts other than the mortgage. Yeah, it paid off big time and it continues to pay.

 

My middle daughter's 19 year old boyfriend is a paid intern working for my husband.  He's getting his degree in computer science at the same university. He got a partial scholarship so his debt will be relatively low and his earning potential relatively high. His internship should give him an edge if he doesn't want to subcontract with my husband if he and our daughter are still together after he graduates.

[lailasmum]

I personally don't think my degree was worth it in the field I studied, I would have been better off with a degree in or a more general but related area, in something like business or marketing. An apprenticeship in my preferred field would have been the best option but they were in their dying days at that point (I still don't think they are common now in the area I studied since work experience is so normal).

[LucyStoner]

On the whole for more people than not, it pays off and not just in dollars earned. The unemployment rate for instance is dramatically lower for people who have a 4 year degree or more than for people who have a high school diploma or just some college/an associates. Divorce rates are also lower in couples with higher educational attainment. This is probably because of the role financial stability and money issues play in many divorces.

 

While college is not necessary and many people build solid careers and very stable lives without ever having gone to college, there are more people struggling to get by who never finished high school or only finished high school. Most of the people I know who haven't finished college are not running their own successful businesses or pulling down nice tradesmen wages. Many are earning 1-2x the minimum wage and aren't especially happy with their jobs.

 

Also, many of the jobs that the OP listed as ones that don't need a college degree have very low median incomes if one is wanting to raise a family. I have a friend who is a hairdresser with just two kids who can't get by without WIC and other assistance. There are far more Great Clips stylists getting an hourly wage than those making quite a bit at the more upscale places. While some in many of those professions will do well money wise, many will not. Other jobs on that list, like retail management and law enforcement are increasingly requiring degrees for new hires or have promotions which hinge on degree attainment. Still others, like dental hygenist, have techincal training programs that cost as much as many 4 year degrees and people generally graduate from those programs with debt.

 

Pharmacy tech is something where a very few people are making as much as $22-25 an hour but most are making more like $10-14 an hour. My overly educated ADD husband who skipped from major to major and degree to degree is still in school and we get by on his pharm tech pay (open to him because of a 1 year community college certificate). He's more or less at the ceiling for pay and advancement and he's a young man. And he naturally feels a bit restless at the job because there's not much else to learn. If he wasn't in school, I think he'd be pretty unhappy with his work life. That boredom is in and of itself, a cost. He's good at making it fun and making the best of the daily grind so it's not like he hates the job but it's also not something he wants to do for 35 more years. Most people are at work 8-12 hours a day, 5 days a week. That's a lot of time and there's a personal benefit to spending that time on something one finds interesting more often than not. He mostly has kept the job because it has killer health and retirement matching benefits, educational reimbursement for advancing his goals and a flexible schedule that is compatible with school. After he graduates, his new job will pay somewhat better but more importantly, it will be something more stimulating and fulfilling for him to do (he's done a lot of volunteer gigs, internships and informational interviews and knows this is a field he will be able to grow in). Within a few years of having that experience, he will not only be able to earn drastically more but be able to take his career in many different directions- consulting, working in hospital systems, working for major tech companies (mostly ones that will not hire without a degree). Even if what he was going to do post graduation paid the same or a little less for awhile, it would still be "worth it" to him because of the other non-money factors.

 

Also, even as a homeschooling SAHM, I definitely do not regret my education. Not only do I use some of the communication and other skills I learned in college, I am a better educator and I feel much more secure because I have a way to bring in a decent rate of pay for very PT work and a path back into work that is both interesting and able to support my family should I need to or want to step back into FT work. I actually would (and did) make quite a bit more than my husband if I worked FT but the benefits in my field aren't awesome and between the two of us, I am the one better suited to the homeschooling stay at home parent role.

[creekland]

Financially only?  Definitely worthwhile for hubby and would have been for me too had I opted to work full time.  I chose not to.  Fortunately most of my college was paid for, so paying off debt was negligible (only 2K).

 

Being able to do what we like?  Priceless.

 

We have our lifestyle because of hubby's degree and the fact that he loves what he does.  We scrimped and saved for 5 years to pay off his debt, and have been reaping benefits ever since (buying our house, rental properties, traveling, etc).  Perhaps he could have gotten as high of a salary without a degree, but it wouldn't have been doing what he enjoys doing.  Most likely his salary wouldn't be anywhere near as high.

 

I couldn't do the part time job (subbing) that I've loved since '99 without my degree.  I probably could make as much in other jobs, but I sure wouldn't like them anywhere nearly as much, nor have the same flexibility to travel, etc.

[Ottakee]

Ours is a mixed bag.

 

Dh went back to school at 40 for his teaching degree in vocational Ed. He taught a few years at a local prison but they cut the program. He is now back in the tool and die field making about the same money but no degree required. We did not go into debt for his degree at all.

 

I got my degree in special education and psychology right after highschool. I had a full ride including most living expenses

I worked part to full time my entire college career so also came out debt free. I worked 2 years in adult special education and then chose to stay at home once we adopted the kids.

 

I think I should have picked a different field. I love kids with special needs, I just have no interest in teaching a room full of them. I could, but would not really enjoy it. My degree likely gave credence to my homeschooling, fostering special needs kids, etc but I never made money in the field. I like medical stuff and would love to be a patient advocate/ medical social worker type thing but don't have a degree in social work or nursing so.....

[Guest]

If someone has to pay all living expenses and tuition OOP at full cost?

 

I am talking about people that don't have the option for free rent at their parents, going after a degree that doesn't allow for full time work hours, attending average colleges (not IV league), and the more common degree fields (not high end specialty areas).

 

Had I went for a degree higher than associate's, I would have been out $20,000-$80,000 for tuition and living expenses depending on if I got a bachelor's or master's and did public or private (closer to $20,000 if part time work was practical). Plus I would have given up $60,000-$120,000 in full time income during that time (high end for being out of full time work to get a master's). Also I would have had to pay all dental and health benefits OOP while not working full time. And no sick pay or vacation time accrual while not working. I probably would have made $10,000-$20,000 more/year after degree completion, but for 5-10 years that extra money would have went to pay off school loans with interest. So total out, including loss of full time income for 2-4 years, would have been $80,000-200,000 (more calculating loan interest rate) with about 7-14 years from start of seeking a higher degree before seeing a benefit to making $10,000-20,000 extra/year. Knowing I wouldn't want to be a full time career professional + parent unless financially necessary, I would have lived to see the financial benefit of the higher degree only if I didn't have children. But, had I not had children, I would not have needed the extra income that came with the higher degree.

 

The other thread got me to thinking out what I figured out long before having children. In my situation with limited outside assistance and with my skill sets, it would not have paid off to get a higher degree. Minus exceptions in competitive high end and top dollar paying careers, does the math not add up for obtaining a college degree for a majority of people who have to pay tuition and living expenses OOP or via loans for 4 or so years? That is, if they have alternate options to take on non degree jobs or associate degree jobs that pay more consiberably more than minimum wage. Jobs like police officers, firemen, HVAC techs, mechanics, store managers, dental hygienists, pharmacy techs, plumbers, pest control, professional painters, truck drivers, contractors, and such. I am beginning to think, minus scholarship or financial assistance help that the cost of a college education is over rated in many cases.

The position I was in at twenty is much like you're saying. My parents didn't have two nickles to rub together, let alone send five kids to college, and they were philosophically not supportive of females going to college or having significant careers. So in reality, I did not give a moment's serious thought to earning a degree at that time.

 

However, once I was working at a law firm, surrounded by highly educated people, I did start to consider it. I wish I had had my act together a lot more at that time, because there were a LOT of resources open to me, and a lot of people who could have been very helpful, had I sat down with one and said, "Here's what I'd like to do; can you help me develop a plan?" I could have gotten a paralegal certificate paid in full, for example, but I didn't have the wherewithal to realize how smart this would be, even if Paralegal was not my dream job. So, that was another opportunity I let sail on by.

 

I only have begin to work towards a degree since my late 30s; i just obtained my AA this year. At this point, I don't know if the AA, or the BA, assuming I go finish, will pay off (monitarily) or not, but if it doesn't, I think it will mainly be because I am not under pressure to go make bank. dH's work keeps us comfortable; the main motivations for me to earn is the pay for my kids' education and to travel more (a bit leter).

 

The advice I give my kids is that a BA/BS is very unlikely to hurt them in any way and, while they have a ton of support from us, it is really smart to use that opportunity to the fullest possible extent. It isn't that I think a degree is a magic wand that makes everything turn to gold, and clearly, a "good life" is possible without one. But it hardly ever hurts to have one, and the younger you are when obtained, the greater lifetime potential gained, yes, even if it means debt, even if it means some of your other goals, like having babies, will need to be delayed for a while.

[Katy]

I think it really depends on the field.  A sociology degree?  Not so much unless you go to grad school or your goal is to be a cop & you're in an area where they require a degree for that.

 

 

Accounting, Advertising, Marketing, Human Resources, Finance, Economics, Actuary Science or Math, Computer Science, MIS, or most fields of engineering are absolutely worth it without a graduate degree.

 

I'm probably missing some fields...

[tm919]

My degree is worth it, not in dollars and cents (many people I know make the same with no degree at all) but in the type of work I am able to do, my job satisfaction, my confidence (hopefully not misplaced) that I could get another job as needed... I have a PhD and while it has totally NOT paid off in the amount of money I take home, it has given me the ability to work at a job I like and that I find meaningful, while staying at home with my kids. That is a HUGE benefit.

[Jane in NC]

My master's degree in Mathematics has opened doors in teaching that I would not have had without the advanced degree. That said, I chose to step away from that world, stay home and educate my son; now I am an active volunteer in the community, in part because of the financial security we have with my husband's income.  He too has a master's degree and is a professional engineer. 

 

Admittedly our degrees were less expensive than what students must pay today.  I had significant scholarships for undergrad; we both had teaching fellowships for grad school that covered minimal living expenses.  When it was over, I had a small loan which I quickly repaid.

 

One thing that I have always known is that if something happened to my husband or my marriage, I would always have a fall back position career-wise.  I have seen too many divorced women piece together part time jobs to keep food on the table for their kids.  We have also seen how long term disability of one spouse can wipe out a family's finances.  Having a degree in your back pocket can be a comfort and a meal ticket.

 

[bettyandbob]

I don't think its ever a good idea to look at the future thinking:

1. I'm going to focus on being a SAHM, maybe I'll have a part time job

2. I'm going to work , but my partner will be the main income for our family.

 

Things happen to marriages:

1. Death

2. Divorce (expensive, even when people get along)

3. Illness and disability

 

So, a plan for the future may work out nicely or you may have to rewrite your future. It's easier to rewrite the future with new goals if you have a degree. More options are open. You may step into a job that doesn't require a degree, but often your application came to the top of the pile because of the degree--so when you needed the job the degree helped you. You may find that while you are rewriting your future there are job training programs specific to people who already have degrees that are open to you.

 

I think having a degree from an average school can be good insurance. Insurance is something you pay for and hope never to use.

 

I have three degrees. They paid for themselves years ago. I am no longer in a field related to one of the degrees and one of my jobs requires no degree. However, one of my degrees is definitely related and really helps in that job.

[Bluegoat]

I don't think its ever a good idea to look at the future thinking:

1. I'm going to focus on being a SAHM, maybe I'll have a part time job

2. I'm going to work , but my partner will be the main income for our family.

 

Things happen to marriages:

1. Death

2. Divorce (expensive, even when people get along)

3. Illness and disability

 

So, a plan for the future may work out nicely or you may have to rewrite your future. It's easier to rewrite the future with new goals if you have a degree. More options are open. You may step into a job that doesn't require a degree, but often your application came to the top of the pile because of the degree--so when you needed the job the degree helped you. You may find that while you are rewriting your future there are job training programs specific to people who already have degrees that are open to you.

 

I think having a degree from an average school can be good insurance. Insurance is something you pay for and hope never to use.

 

I have three degrees. They paid for themselves years ago. I am no longer in a field related to one of the degrees and one of my jobs requires no degree. However, one of my degrees is definitely related and really helps in that job.

 

On the other hand, I know people who have invested in careers, only to find that they were not very compatible with the kind of parent they wanted to be, or with moving around for a spouses job, or some such thing.  I think it probably makes sense for someone who knows he or she wants a family to think seriously about what kind of job and skills could work in that setting.  It might make more sense to learn a skill that can be done part time, or on a self-employed basis, or where going out of the workforce for periods isn't a problem.

 

I know a few different SAHMs, and one dad, who found that they needed to look at other kinds of employment or even retrain for jobs that made more sense with family responsibilities.

 

 

[Bluegoat]

My degree was wonderful and shaped my views in many ways, and it taught me to think, but it has few financial advantages.  I graduatd with only a tiny bit of debt, but I wouldn't recommend to my kids taking on significant debt for a degree like that, without plans for making a living. (lt's not uncommon for lawyers, or priests, or librarians or military officers, or even doctors, to do the same degree, so that would be different.)

 

My diploma also wasn't great, which has mostly to do with the way the library system works in my city.  My military training has actually been the most practically useful.

 

In my family, degrees haven't always been terrible financially remunerative.  My cousin who has a history degree is an electrician.  My uncle with a law degree plays music and runs a delivery business out of his house, and takes care of his kids.  My aunt has a BA and is an admin assistant.  My sister has no degree and is CIO and makes more than anyone else.  My cousin with no degree is a book editor.

 

I don't like using general stats to predict things.  I think its more about looking at your individual situation.

[Orthodox6]

Times have changed.  Such a cliche, and such a deeply painful cliche.

 

In the old days, attending a "name school" would open employment doors.

In the new days, this still helps, but to a lesser extent. 

 

In the old days, employers took the time to read hard-copy resumes and to interview interesting candidates.  Candidates not going to be interviewed would receive hard-copy update to that effect.

In the new days, candidates apply online with cookie-cutter forms, and never know whether or not they even were noticed.  Candidates are forbidden to call and enquire of application status.  Employers simply tune out and ignore unsuccessful applicants.

 

In the old days, college expenses were high, but manageable.  Even at some of the "big ticket/big name" universities.  (My parents paid off my undergraduate expenses within a handful of years.  I came from very modest means.) 

In the new days, insanity rules.

 

In the old days, high achievers in non-STEM fields were respected because they clearly were intelligent, hard-working, and brought multiple talents to the employment pool.

In the new days, football coaches are hired to babysit -- not genuinely teach -- the "worthless" humanities and social studies courses.  The high achievers in non-STEM fields often are unemployed. 

 

In the old days, a person holding a Ph.D. from a solid, not necessarily top-ranked, university realistically could hope to obtain a teaching position at a college or university.

In the new days, a person holding a Ph.D. from anywhere other than one of the top-ten ranked universities can hope to muscle his or her way past the long line of competitors for an adjunct instructor position at a community college.

 

In the old days, a high school diploma was the minimum for obtaining a reasonable, entry-level job of some sort.

In the new days, an undergraduate degree is the new "high school diploma".

 

Need additional food for thought?

 

 

[Jenny in Florida]

Here are some fairly recent statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan/educ/educ_attain_slides.pdf

 

I've just glanced at the information, but it looks like, even through the recent recession, having a degree "paid off" both in actual salary and in terms of the odds of being employed.

[displace]

There are so many variables I think it's hard to generalize. And impossible to predict the future. In general it's easier and faster to go to college before you have kids. In general a public university for a four year degree is more valuable than a two year degree, and likely to lead to better employment opportunities. But a highly skilled trade can be just as valuable. If your college degree is a generic field and high priced private it may be difficult financially to recoup the costs. But if you aim to get a high paying field degree from a local university (or half from community college first) it's a great investment.

 

There are even professional degrees that are difficult to repay because of the costs involved. For some it's worth it, not for others. With data available so easily now it's easier to figure all this out ahead of time.

[displace]

Here are some fairly recent statistics from the U.S. Census Bureau: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/cspan/educ/educ_attain_slides.pdf

 

I've just glanced at the information, but it looks like, even through the recent recession, having a degree "paid off" both in actual salary and in terms of the odds of being employed.

This is another aspect. If you have a degree and need to be employed quickly you are probably better off than a non degreed person. I think if you're a certified tradesman this could also be true.

 

Eta- regarding degrees, I know someone who got a BS and an MS combined in five years, then graduated in a high demand field who will likely always be employable. He went to a public local university.

[displace]

Well, my degree wasn't worth it financially because I never got employment from it. I had a baby seven days after I graduated. I worked for a few years after that in an unrelated field, then stopped working to homeschool. But I do not regret it because after student debt forgiveness and part time work my total amount owing was only 10k, and who knows if I will use it in the future?

 

My spouse's degree was definitely worth it. He managed to work part time at a grocery store and ran a couple somewhat profitable websites at the same time, so his tuition (which would have cost about just over 3k each year) was paid for through his earnings, as were his living expenses. So he came out of it with a degree and no debt, and a bit of cash in the bank. This degree allowed him to get a job abroad. He is now getting a Master's degree in Ireland, which will cost about 8k euro for the complete program. And the only reason he has to pay that much is because he isn't an EU resident/citizen. It would be much cheaper if he were Irish. At this point we can afford to pay for that without going into debt, and it will remove barriers to employment in the united states and parts of Asia should we decide to move there when we are tired of living in the middle east. It will also make it more likely that he will be promoted down the line. So, this is worth it for us although it may not pay off financially right away.

 

I know this isn't what the thread is about, but education should be available to more people than just the wealthy, and people shouldn't have to get into life altering debt just to get a degree. US universities and colleges are crazy expensive compared to Canada and Europe.

ITA re costs of higher education. I'm grateful loans were available for me and DH to use. And for my scholarships but there should be more. There are quite a few fields people don't pursue because of costs of getting an education.

 

FWIW, I live in the sunshine state where lottery winnings put students to college and trade school for free if they are good students and meet the requirements. IDK if state scholarships for good students is the answer, but I wish it were at least a starting point for everyone.

[displace]

I think it really depends on the field. A sociology degree? Not so much unless you go to grad school or your goal is to be a cop & you're in an area where they require a degree for that.

 

 

Accounting, Advertising, Marketing, Human Resources, Finance, Economics, Actuary Science or Math, Computer Science, MIS, or most fields of engineering are absolutely worth it without a graduate degree.

 

I'm probably missing some fields...

Anything medical related (nursing, therapists, diagnosticians, etc). Trade schools in medical fields are a great investment.

[Orthodox6]

From what we hear from practitioners, and from things we have read, medical doctors either are leaving the profession, or are moving to countries where they can earn more money than they can in the U.S. in the wake of insurance requirements and Medicare/Medicaid cuts in reimbursement.  Others are abandoning private practice to work in groups, or for hospitals and care facilities.  I would not encourage someone to seek entry to medical school unless the person was an idealist and willing to work without hope of paying off his loans prior to his mid-forties at the earliest.

[displace]

Ours is a mixed bag.

 

Dh went back to school at 40 for his teaching degree in vocational Ed. He taught a few years at a local prison but they cut the program. He is now back in the tool and die field making about the same money but no degree required. We did not go into debt for his degree at all.

 

I got my degree in special education and psychology right after highschool. I had a full ride including most living expenses

I worked part to full time my entire college career so also came out debt free. I worked 2 years in adult special education and then chose to stay at home once we adopted the kids.

 

I think I should have picked a different field. I love kids with special needs, I just have no interest in teaching a room full of them. I could, but would not really enjoy it. My degree likely gave credence to my homeschooling, fostering special needs kids, etc but I never made money in the field. I like medical stuff and would love to be a patient advocate/ medical social worker type thing but don't have a degree in social work or nursing so.....

This is one concern. With our society and most people getting many different jobs and exposure to many fields over a lifetime it's hard to guess what degree to pursue at 17 years old. Even a gap year probably won't help.

 

I try to emphasize the importance of higher education with a field that can be lucrative enough to give a freedom to seek different fields or even professions when you want as you age and your desires change.

[displace]

From what we hear from practitioners, and from things we have read, medical doctors either are leaving the profession, or are moving to countries where they can earn more money than they can in the U.S. in the wake of insurance requirements and Medicare/Medicaid cuts in reimbursement. Others are abandoning private practice to work in groups, or for hospitals and care facilities. I would not encourage someone to seek entry to medical school unless the person was an idealist and willing to work without hope of paying off his loans prior to his mid-forties at the earliest.

ITA. I love to quote the physician surveys done by physicianfoundations.org. Routinely about 55-60% of physicians would not recommend medicine as a field to their children, and 35% or more would not become a physician again if they had a choice, with an additional 50% choosing to retire if they could. There's lots of other things the survey goes over too (morale, paperwork, hours worked, etc).

 

But the medical field, in general, is a steady employer, and careers besides physicians can be lucrative and not so financially costly.

[Orthodox6]

This is one concern. With our society and most people getting many different jobs and exposure to many fields over a lifetime it's hard to guess what degree to pursue at 17 years old. Even a gap year probably won't help.

 

I try to emphasize the importance of higher education with a field that can be lucrative enough to give a freedom to seek different fields or even professions when you want as you age and your desires change.

 

When I was young, college students often were encouraged to major in the humanities for the explicit reason that such an education was accepted as providing the flexibility to work in multiple fields.  Additional job-specific training would be provided by the employer.  I have known a sociology major who was "reborn" on-the-job as a marketing researcher.  At the same company, I knew an English major who was "reborn" as a competitive analyst.  I, myself, am a history major turned masters level librarian turned competitive analyst. 

[vonfirmath]

Ours is a mixed bag.

 

So far, in our family, I'd say this. My husband has a bachelor's in Economics (Univ of WA), a Bachelor's in Mathematics (Univ. of WA) and a Master' in Mathematics (Texas State University).  It took him a LONG time after getting that Master's to get a job (And he only went back for the second bachelors and Masters' after having difficulty getting a job with just a Bachelor's in Economics) and he doesn't yet have one that uses any of his degrees.

 

I have no degree (an AA I got while working for Boeing back in 1999) but a lot of experience that has kept us afloat.  We still value college degrees, but it has not yet paid out in our family. We have high hopes still.  I'd like to go back to school and get a 4 yr degree. But I can't do so until my husband's current college degrees starting doing the work they are supposed to!

[TechWife]

Honestly, one has to choose their university, their major and their career as wisely as possible. With the right combination, the degree definitely pays off from a financial perspective. Even with an imbalance, the degree will pay off in the long run. 

 

College is expensive, no doubt about it. However, there are many, many reasonably priced regional and local universities out there. One does not have to pay top dollar to get a good, solid education. 

 

 

[Orthodox6]

So far, in our family, I'd say this. My husband has a bachelor's in Economics (Univ of WA), a Bachelor's in Mathematics (Univ. of WA) and a Master' in Mathematics (Texas State University).  It took him a LONG time after getting that Master's to get a job (And he only went back for the second bachelors and Masters' after having difficulty getting a job with just a Bachelor's in Economics) and he doesn't yet have one that uses any of his degrees.

 

I have no degree (an AA I got while working for Boeing back in 1999) but a lot of experience that has kept us afloat.  We still value college degrees, but it has not yet paid out in our family. We have high hopes still.  I'd like to go back to school and get a 4 yr degree. But I can't do so until my husband's current college degrees starting doing the work they are supposed to!

 

If your husband studied statistics, he may be able to find work within the field of marketing research.  A pure math degree can lead to work in that field, as well.  Our young cousin received an undergraduate degree in math from SMU and went on to earn a high income locally with marketing research companies. 

[TechWife]

So far, in our family, I'd say this. My husband has a bachelor's in Economics (Univ of WA), a Bachelor's in Mathematics (Univ. of WA) and a Master' in Mathematics (Texas State University).  It took him a LONG time after getting that Master's to get a job (And he only went back for the second bachelors and Masters' after having difficulty getting a job with just a Bachelor's in Economics) and he doesn't yet have one that uses any of his degrees.

 

I have no degree (an AA I got while working for Boeing back in 1999) but a lot of experience that has kept us afloat.  We still value college degrees, but it has not yet paid out in our family. We have high hopes still.  I'd like to go back to school and get a 4 yr degree. But I can't do so until my husband's current college degrees starting doing the work they are supposed to!

 

This is interesting. There is a high demand for employees with math degrees in a lot of different technology based companies. I've not heard of someone with a math degree who is under-employed before. Has his job search been national in scope? 

[pehp]

Definitely for my husband--he's an engineer.   That having been said, his parents mostly paid for his degree, and he ended up with a very small amount of student loan debt. His earning potential has been really stout and he had a wonderful job that pays well and that he loves, so his four years were well spent, investment-wise. 

 

I haven't 'earned' back what my education cost, but I also didn't pay for my master's degree or JD.  I only had to pay for a bit of my undergraduate degree--which was worth it in so many ways that don't have to do with money, but also b/c it afforded me the education that led to the higher degrees.  I don't think I would have gone to law school if I'd had to take out loans for it, simply because at that point we were married, solid financially and I had a master's degree and work experience that would certainly allow me to have a solid career without the law degree, if I'd chosen that route.  

[vonfirmath]

This is interesting. There is a high demand for employees with math degrees in a lot of different technology based companies. I've not heard of someone with a math degree who is under-employed before. Has his job search been national in scope? 

 

Mostly the Greater Austin, TX area (where my job is). But he did apply for a few jobs with the federal government, etc that would have involved moving.

 

ETA: The 2 years he spent looking for jobs with his Economics degree we lived in the greater Seattle area but he was applying all over the US. No bites at all, ever. And most jobs were looking for a graduate degree, not just a bachelor's. So he went back to school. He thought he'd be interested in teaching and took the classes to get into a teacher certification program we were looking at in Texas. THen was 1 class away from a second bachelor's, so did that. Then we moved and the certification program did not accept DH for reasons he could do nothing about. (He went into the Robinson Scholars program at Univ. of WA and was never in a public high school, so the program decided he wouldn't make a good high school teacher, and that is the level he wanted to teach.) Remembering the difficulty finding a job with just a Bachelor's, he applied at Texas State and got a Masters in mathematics in 2011.

[TechWife]

Mostly the Greater Austin, TX area (where my job is). But he did apply for a few jobs with the federal government, etc that would have involved moving.

 

Expanding his search to a national scale would probably be really helpful. Has he looked into the RTP area? SAS Institute in particular has a high demand for math people. 

[Orthodox6]

That you live in Austin is a grave drawback because of the competition among people who wish to continue living there.  San Antonio would not be an irresponsible commute.

[Butter]

My husband got a technical degree and lots of certifications.  He works for the federal government.  He could make a lot more privately, but the benefits and job security are worth it to us.  Technically he needs a bachelors for the level he is, but his experience and certifications count in lieu of that.  His current position is totally because he opened his mouth about the right thing at the right time to the right person.  A college degree would not change anything for him.

[73349]

DH (mostly because of when we graduated) and I went into fields where you need the degree to even be considered.

 

I graduated $17k in debt with a $21k/year job--but without the degree, I would probably have had a career of only minimum-wage jobs, in the economically run-down area where I graduated. (NB my debt was all tuition, after my scholarship, state grant, and federal grant; I did not waste a dime those four years.) Besides, my brain needed college.

 

DH would have done slightly better (and he went to a less expensive school and his parents paid for some of it), but not enough that it would've been worthwhile to skip college. He is mostly self-taught, but the piece of paper is worth $$$.

 

 

[catz]

Both my DH's and my degrees paid off in a huge way.  I doubt we'd be homeschooling if we didn't have some level of financial ease. 

 

Through various means, we both graduated debt free.  DH lived at home and work through college and then through grad school.  He moved from his parents house to a house that he bought on his own.  My parents helped me some with college.  I also worked ridiculous hours during the summer.  After freshman year, I got a menial job, got a job as an undergraduate TA, and then moved into an internship with a tech company that paid well.  We both have tech degrees.  He has a BS and an MS.  I have 2 BS degrees (and might have been better off getting an MS over the 2nd BS - similar credits and work required actually). 

 

So I think it depends on the degree.  I think it depends on the debt level.  There was a story in our local paper about a year ago about a young woman who moved here with her young family.  Her DH is an engineer and she has a young child.  She was taking out upwards of 100,000 a year to go through vet school.  Why she needed that much is a mystery to me.  She was paying out of state tuition, but I think that amounted to 50-60K and like I said her DH is a working engineer. That kind of level of debt is ridiculous and will not pay off being a vet.  I think high school/colleges should do a better job having parents and kids sit down and go through the numbers and what that level of debt will look like for years and years.  There are ways to get a degree without that level of debt.  Living at home, community college to start, taking longer while working, etc are all options.  Not everyone needs the fully immersive 4 year all inclusive private college experience.

[Orthodox6]

OT but related:  Do high school staff do anything to help students decide whether or not to go to college, if so -- where, and if so -- toward what end?

 

We had high school counselors who did not do any of the tasks just listed.  I never understood why they were there, other than to be friendly people who maintained file drawers of testing scores and materials.

[rebcoola]

I think a degree is still worthwhile though I don't have one for various reasons. 

 

I do think that people need to be smart about it.  I have friends who are lovely couple who met while going to school at a very expensive private school and have had a decade of debt because the school cost $30,000 a year.  Fine I guess but not a good deal to become a teacher and a counselor.

 

That is just not a good cost benefit ratio they ended up living in 500sq ft carriage house at his parents house for about 5 yrs with 1,2, and finally 3 kids.  They finally managed to get a place of their own but still work for his parents on weekends at their event center.  

 

They and others I have met would have been better off at finically at least, if they had gone to a state school.

[Katy]

Anything medical related (nursing, therapists, diagnosticians, etc). Trade schools in medical fields are a great investment.

 

That's true, although not many nurses work in nursing for very long unless they get a more advanced degree.

[Liz CA]

I looked for it earlier lol She's a Moderator, that's why. Or maybe you knew that and were just saying you liked her post.

 

 

I did not know that. Thank you - and yes, I wanted to like the post.

 

[creekland]

In the new days, football coaches are hired to babysit -- not genuinely teach -- the "worthless" humanities and social studies courses.  

 

I'm really glad this doesn't happen in the statistically average high school where I work!  The humanities and social studies teachers love their jobs and it shows.  None are football coaches either.

 

OT but related:  Do high school staff do anything to help students decide whether or not to go to college, if so -- where, and if so -- toward what end?

 

We had high school counselors who did not do any of the tasks just listed.  I never understood why they were there, other than to be friendly people who maintained file drawers of testing scores and materials.

 

Here yes.  They know schools our kids tend to get into, roughly what they cost, and how our students do.  They aren't as versed in colleges our students don't regularly go to, so I still was the main "search" guidance counselor for my youngest even though he was in ps.  Guidance took everything from there though.  I also took back info I had learned from schools we looked at to guidance.  A couple of those schools (Nova Southeastern, Eckerd) are schools students here could be interested in for the future and were previously "unknown."

 

Most of our upper level students head to college.  Add the mid level kids and one can also add trade schools + the military.  Put them all together (kids and destinations) and I believe roughly 85-90% head to post high school education of some sort.  Somewhere in the 40%s is where 4 year colleges are at.

 

Again - statistically average public high school.