When did young men stop being referred to as master?

[Katy]

First it was in a couple old books.  Then it was in an episode of Little House on the Prairie.  I never thought about it much but an inquiring child would like to know.

[Guest]

It just became Mister over the course of the 19th century.

 

Somewhere in the evolution of things, adult men were Mister and boys were Master.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I still address envelopes to young boys as Master.  I'm stuck in the 19th century.  But I never address anyone orally as Master _________.  

[BigMamaBird]

My little boys still get holiday and birthday cards from my Aunt addressed to Master Full Name Last Name.  No nick names for my Aunt!!

[Spy Car]

I always loved getting cards from my Aunt and Uncle addressed "Master William Lastname."

 

It was not an affectation on their parts, just how it was done.

 

Bill

 

 

[Guest]

It's still done in some circles, depending on the person and formality of address. But I believe it most fell out of favor with the Boomers. Their parents did it, the kids don't seem to have continued that in widespread fashion.

[SparklyUnicorn]

You know what I love?!  When people address me as Mrs. Husband's First and Last Name.

 

So so special.

 

NOT

 

 

[Spy Car]

My little boys still get holiday and birthday cards from my Aunt addressed to Master Full Name Last Name.  No nick names for my Aunt!!

 

Are we related? :D

 

Bill 

[dollhouse]

My grandfather would always address cards to my brother as "Master M____ T_____." This would have been in the 1980s and early 90s, but my grandfather was born in 1919. 

[bibiche]

Yep, DS still gets letters from his aunt (and the odd formal invitation) addressed to "Master __ ___."

At home he gets called "mister."

[MEmama]

My MIL adresses cards to DS using Master. I hate, hate, hate it. I didn't know that anyone else does this; there's just something terribly off putting about it to me. I don't think he notices or cares though.

[Acorn]

My MIL adresses cards to DS using Master. I hate, hate, hate it. I didn't know that anyone else does this; there's just something terribly off putting about it to me. I don't think he notices or cares though.

It's common and appropriate for boys under age 18?

[bibiche]

It's common and appropriate for boys under age 18?

I think the max is usually 13.

[horsellian]

It's pretty common to use 'Master' in the UK, we often have it as an option on forms. My son is 'Master' at the bank, doctor, dentist and library (off the top of my head).

 

My grandfather was very formal, and for cards and letters, mine were addressed "Miss Surname" because I'm the eldest, and my sisters ones were "Miss Firstname Surname" which always seemed rather Jane Austen.

[Renthead Mommy]

Any cards or letter sent out, and I still send a decent amount, both to relatives and friends, boy still in high school or under get addressed to Master, as Mr. doesn't start till 'adulthood' (and my take on that for this purpose is graduating high school).  Girls get Miss. 

 

But while we are on this, I have one friend with three girls.  When I send something to them I am never sure how to do it.  Miss A, Miss B, Miss C Lastname (no relation to Bill!)  or is it Misses A, B, C? 

[go_go_gadget]

You know what I love?!  When people address me as Mrs. Husband's First and Last Name.

 

So so special.

 

NOT

 

My mother sent me a card addressed that way, and when my kids read the envelope they asked me ''So... is this for you or for Dad?''

[aggieamy]

You know what I love?!  When people address me as Mrs. Husband's First and Last Name.

 

So so special.

 

NOT

 

LOL.  I love that.  It's so old fashioned and charming.

 

I'm a different kind of feminist though ... I own my own company in a male dominated field and get treated with respect so I don't feel that any disrespect is ever intended when a friend addresses a card that way.  In fact I do it myself sometimes.

 

 

I'm also going to start calling the young gentlemen of my acquaintance Master.  :)

[SparklyUnicorn]

LOL.  I love that.  It's so old fashioned and charming.

 

I'm a different kind of feminist though ... I own my own company in a male dominated field and get treated with respect so I don't feel that any disrespect is ever intended when a friend addresses a card that way.  In fact I do it myself sometimes.

 

 

I'm also going to start calling the young gentlemen of my acquaintance Master.  :)

 

I don't find it charming.  I find it ridiculous.  As if I'm a piece of property or something.  I have my own name.  

[Guest]

You know what I love?! When people address me as Mrs. Husband's First and Last Name.

 

So so special.

 

NOT

See, I genuinely enjoy that. I'm proud to be married to my husband, and have his name. I chose that for myself when we married. Different strokes...

[*Lulu*]

I don't find it charming. I find it ridiculous. As if I'm a piece of property or something. I have my own name.

The context matters to me, a wedding invitation worded that way wouldn't bother me at all, a letter from a business on the other hand would irritate me. If you are doing business with me, address ME.

[Kathryn]

My grandparents address cards and letters to my sons with "Master." They address things to just me with my name instead of "Mrs. John Doe," but to both of us, they still do "Mr. and Mrs. John Doe."

[regentrude]

See, I genuinely enjoy that. I'm proud to be married to my husband, and have his name. I chose that for myself when we married. Different strokes...

 

I assume you talk about the last name, right? I do have my husband's last name because I chose to - but I certainly have my own first name and am not Mrs Husband's-first-name JointLastname. I am My-first-name JointLastname.

[SparklyUnicorn]

The context matters to me, a wedding invitation worded that way wouldn't bother me at all, a letter from a business on the other hand would irritate me. If you are doing business with me, address ME.

 

Oh if a business did that...HAHAHAHA...I pity the fool. 

 

Once had a hospital send my bills to my husband.  The hospital and I had a "talk" about that.  :glare:

[SparklyUnicorn]

See, I genuinely enjoy that. I'm proud to be married to my husband, and have his name. I chose that for myself when we married. Different strokes...

 

I'm talking about using his first name to refer to me.  As if I don't have a first name either.

[regentrude]

I don't find it charming.  I find it ridiculous.  As if I'm a piece of property or something.  I have my own name.  

 

This.

I even chose DH's last name as our joint last name, but that doesn't mean I don't have my own first name.

Mrs John Doe - that sounds like property. Like in The Handmaid's Tale, where the handmaid's name would have been Ofjohn.

 

[go_go_gadget]

See, I genuinely enjoy that. I'm proud to be married to my husband, and have his name. I chose that for myself when we married. Different strokes...

 

The funny thing in my case, is that my husband took my last name. I'm also proud to be married to him, and he to me, but no one calls him Mr. go-go-gadget.

 

[Guest]

I'm talking about using his first name to refer to me. As if I don't have a first name either.

Yeah, me too. I'm Mrs. P----- G-------- as much as I'm Mrs. Taryl G--------. It just fails to bother me at all, as it is true. I actually enjoy it. His first name gets butchered in spelling way less than mine.

[Chris in VA]

I'm talking about using his first name to refer to me.  As if I don't have a first name either.

 

In my etiquette circles, a married woman is addressed as Mrs. Husband's First name Husband's Last name. I like it because I'm used to it being the rule. I don't feel like property. But YMMV and obviously does!

 

A widow uses her own first name and her deceased hubby's last name.

[FaithManor]

I use my maiden name professionally and this seems to offend some people who know my husband. Sigh... I also am no Mrs. His first name. I hate that. I am Faith. I am a person, not propertu. Use my name please.

 

As for master, I have wondered if it may have lost popularity due to other connotations of the word.

[vonfirmath]

First it was in a couple old books.  Then it was in an episode of Little House on the Prairie.  I never thought about it much but an inquiring child would like to know.

 

My husband's aunts and uncle still refer to my son as Master when sending him birthday, Easter, Christmas cards. They were born 40s-50s.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Traditionally, a woman was addressed Mrs. Ownfirstname  LastName when widowed.  So people who use the Mrs. Husband'sFirstName LastName convention are addressing you as a still married woman.  In practice though I've gone to Mrs. Ownfirstname Lastname even though I'm not widowed and so have most of my friends.  But it doesn't bother me if someone does it the old way.  

[creekland]

Many of my aunts sent my boys cards using Master.  They loved it.

 

I really don't give a hoot how people address things they send to me.  I never care if my name is spelled incorrectly either.

 

When kids at school ask what they should call me I'll tell them, "I don't really care.  As long as you don't use idiot or moron or some similar word, we'll get along just fine."  Pending the class/kid, I can get all sorts of (fun) monikers.  Some even give me the honor of calling me mom (not just my own guys).  Usually it's Mrs. Lastname or Mrs. Last Initial, but I like creativity when it happens.

 

I've often wondered why this is a pet peeve some have to be honest, but then again I have my own pet peeves that others think are crazy so...

[MEmama]

I once knew a kid who called me (as an adult) Miss Firstname. It was SO weird. I can only hope I didn't outwardly cringe every time, but there never seemed to be a kind way to tell her how inappropriate it was. I assume it's a southern thing?

 

Someone mentioned "other connotations". Yes, this. Very uncomfortable.

[Acorn]

Miss Firstname is appropriate in Ohio. I think it's less common further north though. I don't think it would be a big deal to just say "I prefer to be called X."

[regentrude]

I once knew a kid who called me (as an adult) Miss Firstname. It was SO weird. I can only hope I didn't outwardly cringe every time, but there never seemed to be a kind way to tell her how inappropriate it was. I assume it's a southern thing?

 

It's a Southern thing. My neighbor wanted my kids to address her as Miss Firstname. Oh well, happy to oblige.

 

But I had one of my college students address me as Miss Firstname. He said "I did not know how else to call you". Seriously? Your professor is not your kindergarten teacher.

 

[barnwife]

I once knew a kid who called me (as an adult) Miss Firstname. It was SO weird. I can only hope I didn't outwardly cringe every time, but there never seemed to be a kind way to tell her how inappropriate it was. I assume it's a southern thing?

 

Someone mentioned "other connotations". Yes, this. Very uncomfortable.

Well, our kids use "Miss Firstname" with a variety of adults. I am not comfortable with kids addressing grownups by firstname only. But some people don't like being called by their last name. (Our librarian for one. She has a looooong last name, and it's not easy to pronounce.) So "Miss Firstname" is a compromise. (Yes, our librarian is an adult. And married. She has kids. She might even have grandkids.)

 

As for the OP, my mom addresses all mail to our boys with "Master Firstname Lastname." So far, that goes right over their heads. 

 

Edited to add: MEmama, I was just piggy-backing on your post. I just wanted to explain why some people might do so. And I do hope that if anyone our children address that was doesn't like it that they let us know and offer an alternative that fits in with our rules.

[MEmama]

Miss Firstname is appropriate in Ohio. I think it's less common further north though. I don't think it would be a big deal to just say "I prefer to be called X."

Huh. Are you in southern Ohio by chance? My DH is from Columbus and he's never heard it, nor had I in my 10 or so years there. The state has lots of regional differences, to be sure.

 

I only wondered about it being southern because that's the one area of the country where I haven't lived. Also, my MIL is southern and she's the only person I've ever known to use Master.

[Murphy101]

My sons still get mail addressed to Master ___ ____.

 

Usually only from family, but sometimes not.

 

My girls are referred to frequently as Miss Firstname.

 

I don't think anyone has ever called me Miss Martha. Even as a child bc I wasn't called Martha as a child either. I was called Little Miss or just my nickname.

[creekland]

Miss Firstname is relatively common here (southern PA), but not in school with teachers.

 

I got introduced to it via hubby (who is southern), but if it's here too... well... we go with what's local (more or less).

 

Personally, I think kids should call adults what they want to be called (if the adults care).

[Guest]

What's offensive//inappropriate about Miss. FirstName?

[BarbecueMom]

I have no idea how invitations are addressed to me. I'm usually working on my own etiquette faux pas of pretending I didn't see it so I don't have to attend or invent a reason not to attend.

 

The title "Master" makes me think of Alfred talking to Bruce Wayne.

[MFG]

It's a Southern thing. My neighbor wanted my kids to address her as Miss Firstname. Oh well, happy to oblige.

 

But I had one of my college students address me as Miss Firstname. He said "I did not know how else to call you". Seriously? Your professor is not your kindergarten teacher.

"Dr. Last name works."

[Tammi K]

I once knew a kid who called me (as an adult) Miss Firstname. It was SO weird. I can only hope I didn't outwardly cringe every time, but there never seemed to be a kind way to tell her how inappropriate it was. I assume it's a southern thing?

 

Someone mentioned "other connotations". Yes, this. Very uncomfortable.

 

My children frequently refer to adults as Miss/Mr First Name. It is always said with respect.  We've taught them to use it in situations with people who are more familiar than casual or professional acquaintances. (Skate coaches, family friends, neighbors)   In that case they use Mr/Mrs/Miss Last Name. (Drs, teachers, etc)

 

We've lived so many different places where children address adults differently - 'Miss' (no last name) in Australia otherwise simply first name (may of my children's Australian friends just called me Tammi) , 'Auntie' and 'Uncle' in Hawaii, Mr/Mrs Last Name in my home state - that I am far more concerned with the tone and intent than I am with the salutation. 

 

[Orthodox6]

When I see the title used in "old books", context helps.  In a monied family, male children under some commonly accepted age were addressed as "Master ___".  You maybe have read passages in which a servant addresses a son of the employer's family as "Master William" (or whatever given name). 

 

I am accustomed to address an envelope to be mailed to a boy under the age of thirteen with the title "Master" preceding the given name (which is, then, followed by the surname). 

 

I am a firm holdout -- so don't waste your all's preferred choice of retaliatory ammunition -- against the invented title, "Ms."  A woman is married, or she is unmarried.  She is "Miss" or "Mrs.".  In order to avoid unnecessary backlash, I do use the term (in writing) for any woman whom I know to want it used.  Never for myself, though.  I know exactly who I am, and have no interest in disguising my status.

 

When we first moved to Alabama, the "Miss First Name" practice drove me nuts.  (as did the corresponding "Mr. First Name")  We all adjusted, though.  I prefer it to children addressing adults by their first names.  (That viewpoint has been argued in other threads.) 

 

I don't worry about what name a married woman uses -- her own birth surname, her husband's surname, a hyphenated surname, whatever.  The only "rebel" act of mine was to drop my birth surname and to keep my original middle name when I married.  My middle name was the given name of my maternal grandfather, whom I never met.  So I wanted to keep it in use, and my parents did not object. 

[mamajag]

I assume you talk about the last name, right? I do have my husband's last name because I chose to - but I certainly have my own first name and am not Mrs Husband's-first-name JointLastname. I am My-first-name JointLastname.

 

No, at least for me. If I were a businesswoman it would bother me if I were addressed that way in a professional arena, but personally I am quite enamored of Mrs. His Name Our Last Name. I'm quite pleased to be his wife and happy to be associated with him in that way. :D

 

Having worked in male dominated industries in my 20s, it strikes me as protesting too much.

[MEmama]

What's offensive//inappropriate about Miss. FirstName?

It seems subservient to me.

 

I didn't grow up with these terms and I've never lived anywhere where they are at all used that I'm aware of, though, so mine might be a total outsider perspective.

[Orthodox6]

It seems subservient to me.

 

I didn't grow up with these terms and I've never lived anywhere where they are at all used that I'm aware of, though, so mine might be a total outsider perspective.

 

I did not grow up with it, either.  It appears sooooooo ingrained to large portions of the South, however, that I could think of no good reason to oppose it.  In actual practice, it showed affection from my children toward adults who were non-relatives, but who were close family friends.  

[Rachel]

First it was in a couple old books.  Then it was in an episode of Little House on the Prairie.  I never thought about it much but an inquiring child would like to know.

I don't know, but my grandmother always addresses letters to my sons as Master ____________.  She's the only one I've ever seen do that.

[regentrude]

Having worked in male dominated industries in my 20s, it strikes me as protesting too much.

 

I don't understand this comment which I assume is directed to me.

Care to explain?

 

[momacacia]

My inlaws still address a card or gift to a new baby boy as "Master." I think it's really cute. It'll be interesting to see if it holds as mine get older.