Ugh. Tired of the 'common core' math attacks.

[Sneezyone]

It's back to school time so there are lots of parents in my Facebook newsfeed complaining about their kids math assignments (and textbooks if they have them).

 

I'm no fan of the MATERIALS many of the schools are using because, well, I think they're error-ridden, slapped-together imitations of Asian math programs but the CONCEPTS and METHODS are not all that different from what we are using in our home with great success.

 

Do you ever engage the complainers or attempt to offer a more nuanced perspective, or do you just let them rant? I'm in search of new approaches/responses.

[zoobie]

Both, but generally it's a waste of time. People who are all ZOMG COMMON CORE IS GONNA STEAL MY BABEEZ' SOUL aren't going to understand that math is math and maybe it's the textbook or the teacher that sucks.

[kiana]

I only do if they directly tag me or I see an actual thoughtful discussion. 

 

They bug the crap out of me but since most of the people sharing them aren't really open to the idea that it's not ALL WRONG it's not really worth my time to say anything. 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

 

 

 

They bug me too.

[redsquirrel]

My rule is that every moment discussing common core is a moment of my life I will never get back.

 

 

[Sneezyone]

Both, but generally it's a waste of time. People who are all ZOMG COMMON CORE IS GONNA STEAL MY BABEEZ' SOUL aren't going to understand that math is math and maybe it's the textbook or the teacher that sucks.

 

The bolded is what I want to say but I'm afraid people often read it as "This chick is calling me (or the teacher) stupid!" Which, if I'm being honest, isn't entirely off base.  :leaving:

[Butter]

I usually ignore it, but if I have time or am feeling especially cantankerous, I'll explain why it's not the worst thing ever and what the tedious examples are actually trying to get the students to do.  I also point out that when he does math out loud, my 9 year old, who is a math whiz, naturally solves things using common core methods, as do most people who are very fast and easily understand math.  I do often point out that the materials or the teacher are often the problem.  I've actually managed to get at least 3 people on FB to understand what I am trying to explain.

[catz]

My kid was in school before common core and was using everyday math.  I thought that was a horrible curriculum and I thought the teachers weren't well trained in teaching math.  We used Singapore at home.  Some Singapore does align with CC.  I thought that was a well done curriculum.  I have a math degree so I think I'm pretty qualified to teach math with a big picture view.  I think the fact that most elementary school teachers cannot focus on a big picture view of math and make it about the inane details in these curriculum is what causes a bunch of problems.  They tend to want to reduce math to procedural hoop jumping instead of promoting true conceptual understanding and creating an environment of enjoyment with math.

[mom31257]

I've sometimes tried to explain what those example problems are actually trying to accomplish. Having a math degree has given me a little clout in that area with some of my friends. Some have been surprised that they aren't as evil as they think. 

 

 

[Sneezyone]

My rule is that every moment discussing common core is a moment of my life I will never get back.

 

This is true but then I feel a little hypocritical about being a homeschooler (perceived as rejecting all that common core, school-y stuff) and then using the same conceptual approach myself. So many of my friends think I've completely abandoned anything associated with brick and mortar schools when that couldn't be further from the truth. I keep hoping that directing them to manipulatives kits, Miquon or Singapore math will help them better understand the whys of it all but this seems to only work with the parents of preschoolers and kindergarteners.

[Butter]

I've found the waste of time Common Core discussions are always with homeschoolers.

[amsunshine]

The materials I've seen are definitely sub-par.  They didn't appear to me to be even trying to imitate Asian methods.  It seemed like just a bunch of topics mixed up and explained poorly.  But, then again, they always are pretty bad, no matter what flavor of the math month it is.

 

I do get tired of it, too, though.  Makes me want to say, then why don't you homeschool already! :leaving:

[Guest]

Of all the issues with common core, math is about the least offensive. Truth is, parents have a hard time understanding the method behind the madness, as it were, and so they think it is wrong because it isn't how they were taught (rather than recognizing they weren't taught particularly well and this is an effort to remediate some of the formulaic, mental math weak skills that haven't served the last two generations particularly well).

 

Alas, there are issues with demanding teachers teach what they, too, may not understand. But that's a deeper and more complex issue than common core.

[Storygirl]

So this year my kids are in brick and mortar school for the first time, and their school uses Everyday Math. And it's terrible IMO, at least so far. I don't blame parents for complaining about it.

 

I get what you are saying, that you see good things about the Common Core math approach. But the truth is that these parents are stuck with the math that the school has chosen. They don't have another option and just have to deal with it. Their kids are struggling (perhaps for good reason if it is a poorly developed curriculum or they have an ineffective math teacher). They don't like it and want to vent.

 

I think that's okay. Let them vent. You don't need to respond.

[Tsuga]

That's why I left facebook--not CC, but just, things like that in general.

 

I couldn't let it go.

 

 

 

The same people who can't help their kids with math... they don't understand the role of a public education system in a civilized society, they don't understand what it takes to run a national program for 300 million people, they don't get the complexity of developing a textbook, they don't understand why some math concepts seem useless until you use them later, they just generally don't get a whole lot of things.

 

So talking with these people is a total wash. It just goes around and around whatever simple framework they have constructed in their head that they use as a substitute for the incredibly complex reality that actually produces imperfect but often workable results. They don't understand how different everyone is: to them, what would work for them should work for everyone, so why is it so hard just to make ONE THING that would work for everyone? Their understanding of reality is that it is simple, so solutions should be simple. Simple solutions can be perfect and would appear perfect and easy to understand. Hence, the messy, imperfect solutions often produced by (sometimes very intelligent) people in a highly complex system of governance appear to them as madness.

 

The problem is that their overall worldview is totally inadequate to process reality.

 

No amount of Facebook arguing is going to remedy that basic conceptual problem.

 

I try to be zen about the existence of such people and the fact that they vote.

[Katy]

Meh.  I think a fair amount of this is frustration that the parents themselves don't get it.  I just tell them to go to Khan Academy, start at Early math, do an hour a night, and in a few weeks they'll get everything the kid's been assigned.

[mom2scouts]

I have a friend who has a math degree.  She knows I'm interested in educational methods, so she shows me her third grade child's math papers.  The hastily developed curriculum is so bad that she can't even help her own child.  Sometimes none of the adults with college degrees can even figure out the answer because the questions are so vague and poorly explained. It's not CC, but the poor way it's being implemented in many schools.

[EKS]

What really makes the anti Common Core folks mad is to point out that "Singapore teaches it that way too."

[ErinE]

I think the homework itself is a source of frustration with Common Core math concepts. When math homework is sent home, the parent doesn't understand the methods or terminology, and the child remembers nothing from class, that's where I take issue with many public school materials. I don't think schools should send work home that requires parents to get curriculum training or re-teach the concept. But I don't agree with formal homework in grades K through 4 anyways.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I say "there there".

 

Although some of the complaints are fair.  The concepts are not bad.  The implementation tends to be the biggest problem. 

 

 

[dirty ethel rackham]

I agree with them where I can ... like "Wow!  That is a really poor implementation of the standard of being able to explain ones answer!" (as in requiring the writing skills of a 3rd grader to explain a simple first grade math problem and giving the kid a zero on the problem because they don't write well.)

[Heatherwith4]

I ignore them. Not worth it.

[dirty ethel rackham]

  I think the fact that most elementary school teachers cannot focus on a big picture view of math and make it about the inane details in these curriculum is what causes a bunch of problems.  They tend to want to reduce math to procedural hoop jumping instead of promoting true conceptual understanding and creating an environment of enjoyment with math.

Exactly!  When I was an education major in college (secondary Math), I would tutor the Elementary Ed majors in math.  Most of them had so little understanding of the whys.  What bugged me even more was the more talented math students were pushed to go into Secondary Education where they would make more money.  I would cry that the young kids needed them more - they needed teachers who could teach the why rather than drill an algorithm. 

 

I've sometimes tried to explain what those example problems are actually trying to accomplish. Having a math degree has given me a little clout in that area with some of my friends. Some have been surprised that they aren't as evil as they think. 

I've done this, too.  Just the other day, someone was ranting about adding two larger two digit numbers and was mad that they told them to break them up into chunks of easily added numbers rather than do the align by place value and add the columns method.  I explained that being able to break numbers up like this helped with mental math - being able to add very large numbers in one's head to be able to estimate and to be able to have a good BS meter to detect when some numbers were really off.  Also, it shows a much better understanding of how numbers work than just doing an algorithm.  I was shocked that I got a "Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way."  (They were struggling to put it into  an algorithm rather than understand the why. 

 

I have a friend who has a math degree.  She knows I'm interested in educational methods, so she shows me her third grade child's math papers.  The hastily developed curriculum is so bad that she can't even help her own child.  Sometimes none of the adults with college degrees can even figure out the answer because the questions are so vague and poorly explained. It's not CC, but the poor way it's being implemented in many schools.

I've looked over my friends' kids math papers.  It seems they wanted to give lots of credit for language arts skills and only a rats patootie for mathematical thinking.  Which makes sense when most elementary ed programs and the teachers that go into it are very language arts focused.  It kills me to see a kid who is on fire for doing math feel like a failure because the writing skills don't please the teacher. 

[*Lulu*]

I have a friend who has a math degree. She knows I'm interested in educational methods, so she shows me her third grade child's math papers. The hastily developed curriculum is so bad that she can't even help her own child. Sometimes none of the adults with college degrees can even figure out the answer because the questions are so vague and poorly explained. It's not CC, but the poor way it's being implemented in many schools.

This.

 

The problem I am seeing with common core math is not the mathematical methods but the implementation of poorly written curriculum by teachers who do not understand the methods they are teaching with a side car of stupidity. If they teach four methods to solve a particular type of problem they require every student to be able to use all four methods. Forget that the entire point of presenting concepts in different ways is so students can learn the ONE that they can best wrap their brains around...s.t.u.p.i.d.i.t.y.

[Entropymama]

 

I've done this, too.  Just the other day, someone was ranting about adding two larger two digit numbers and was mad that they told them to break them up into chunks of easily added numbers rather than do the align by place value and add the columns method.  I explained that being able to break numbers up like this helped with mental math - being able to add very large numbers in one's head to be able to estimate and to be able to have a good BS meter to detect when some numbers were really off.  Also, it shows a much better understanding of how numbers work than just doing an algorithm.  I was shocked that I got a "Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of it that way."  (They were struggling to put it into  an algorithm rather than understand the why. 

 

 

Just this evening I had a conversation with my MIL, who was really worked up about CC math. She was demanding to know why they were teaching estimating. I tried to explain how it was an easy way to see if your answer was reasonable. She responded that to check your math, you just do the same problem backward. I know, but that's not easy or quick when you're dealing with large numbers. She wouldn't budge, she thinks estimating is a waste of time. I gave it up after a few minutes. 

[Butter]

I've looked over my friends' kids math papers.  It seems they wanted to give lots of credit for language arts skills and only a rats patootie for mathematical thinking.  Which makes sense when most elementary ed programs and the teachers that go into it are very language arts focused.  It kills me to see a kid who is on fire for doing math feel like a failure because the writing skills don't please the teacher. 

 

THIS is the thing that drove me crazy about not-Common Core in Texas (don't let them kid you... Texas's standards are nearly identical and math is taught the same way in Texas and out - but they can still claim they don't do Common Core because, technically, they don't).  Every single question in my then 2nd grade son's math involved explaining how he got his answer and drawing pictures.  He has always intuitively understood math.  Drawing pictures drove him crazy.  He didn't need them.  When a question is so simple as 7+2 and they are being asked to explain how they got the answer, it is truly dumb.  Sometimes they needed to explain how they got the answer in two different ways.  Fritz would often write "I added" or "I did math" or "7+2 is always 9."  He'd get marked wrong for those answers.  His teacher sympathized and would usually give him half credit.  But he couldn't get full credit because the explanation was somehow more important than the mathematically correct answer (if a kid got the wrong answer, but explained their thought process properly they also got half credit). 

[Mergath]

THIS is the thing that drove me crazy about not-Common Core in Texas (don't let them kid you... Texas's standards are nearly identical and math is taught the same way in Texas and out - but they can still claim they don't do Common Core because, technically, they don't). Every single question in my then 2nd grade son's math involved explaining how he got his answer and drawing pictures. He has always intuitively understood math. Drawing pictures drove him crazy. He didn't need them. When a question is so simple as 7+2 and they are being asked to explain how they got the answer, it is truly dumb. Sometimes they needed to explain how they got the answer in two different ways. Fritz would often write "I added" or "I did math" or "7+2 is always 9." He'd get marked wrong for those answers. His teacher sympathized and would usually give him half credit. But he couldn't get full credit because the explanation was somehow more important than the mathematically correct answer (if a kid got the wrong answer, but explained their thought process properly they also got half credit).

Kids who get in the habit of intuiting the answers in the younger grades are going to find later math that requires a systematic, step-by-step approach difficult. You can't just intuit the answers in algebra or calculus, so the teachers want kids to get in the habit of explaining how they arrived at an answer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

If MIF is any indication of what CC math is like (which yes I know CC is not a book), then I think some of the complaints are fair.  I have run through SM Earlybird through PM 5B already, but MIF takes some stuff to a whole nother level of crazy sometimes. It does address concepts, but the process of getting to the point is extremely tedious.  I don't know if the books were written so someone in a coma could teach from them or what, but yeah I'm not loving the latest MIF level I've bought.

 

 

[Butter]

Kids who get in the habit of intuiting the answers in the younger grades are going to find later math that requires a systematic, step-by-step approach difficult. You can't just intuit the answers in algebra or calculus, so the teachers want kids to get in the habit of explaining how they arrived at an answer.

 

Not actually my experience.  Or my daughter's.

[Mergath]

Not actually my experience. Or my daughter's.

That's great, but most kids do better when they get in the habit of explaining the whys behind how they arrived at an answer.

[SparklyUnicorn]

That's great, but most kids do better when they get in the habit of explaining the whys behind how they arrived at an answer.

 

I don't think anyone is arguing that.  It's just it seems now you can't pick a way that works for you.  You must demonstrate in tedious details 6 ways to do the same multiplication problem.  (I'm only slightly exaggerating.) 

[Mergath]

I don't think anyone is arguing that. It's just it seems now you can't pick a way that works for you. You must demonstrate in tedious details 6 ways to do the same multiplication problem. (I'm only slightly exaggerating.)

I think that's more of a public school problem than a cc problem, though. There's not enough time to help each kid find the method best for them and then make sure they really understand the concept, so the teachers make every kid do every method and hope something sticks by the end of the year. It's better than how they did it when I was in achool, where they taught one method and too bad for you if you didn't get it.

[Word Nerd]

I remember a Facebook freak-out last year involving the use of a number line. Yes, it would have been easy to just set up an algorithm, but the actual problem was more complex than just getting the right number. It was essentially the same process people use (or are supposed to use if they don't rely solely on a cash register) to make change, but many FB users just didn't get it and acted like number lines have never been used before CC.

[Anne in CA]

I think the homework itself is a source of frustration with Common Core math concepts. When math homework is sent home, the parent doesn't understand the methods or terminology, and the child remembers nothing from class, that's where I take issue with many public school materials. I don't think schools should send work home that requires parents to get curriculum training or re-teach the concept. But I don't agree with formal homework in grades K through 4 anyways.

That, in a nutshell, is the problem with most CC complaints that parents of elementary students have. With a high school student I had different problems last year, but they were different problems than I had with my oldest when she was in high school before CC and they turned out to be easier to deal with by the end of last school year. 

[Mabelen]

What I see in your example is a lack of specific modeling of what is expected from the child. There should have been plenty of modeling in the classroom already, with different students sharing their thinking. Maybe a student sees 7 as 2 more than 5, then you add 2? Or perhaps another sees 7 as 3 less than 10 but then you add 2, so you end up with 1 less than 10.

 

THIS is the thing that drove me crazy about not-Common Core in Texas (don't let them kid you... Texas's standards are nearly identical and math is taught the same way in Texas and out - but they can still claim they don't do Common Core because, technically, they don't). Every single question in my then 2nd grade son's math involved explaining how he got his answer and drawing pictures. He has always intuitively understood math. Drawing pictures drove him crazy. He didn't need them. When a question is so simple as 7+2 and they are being asked to explain how they got the answer, it is truly dumb. Sometimes they needed to explain how they got the answer in two different ways. Fritz would often write "I added" or "I did math" or "7+2 is always 9." He'd get marked wrong for those answers. His teacher sympathized and would usually give him half credit. But he couldn't get full credit because the explanation was somehow more important than the mathematically correct answer (if a kid got the wrong answer, but explained their thought process properly they also got half credit).

[dirty ethel rackham]

Kids who get in the habit of intuiting the answers in the younger grades are going to find later math that requires a systematic, step-by-step approach difficult. You can't just intuit the answers in algebra or calculus, so the teachers want kids to get in the habit of explaining how they arrived at an answer.

 

 

That's great, but most kids do better when they get in the habit of explaining the whys behind how they arrived at an answer.

So how would you require a little kid to explain why 2+7 = 9?  Using the available language and writing skills appropriate to the age that would be learning that, of course.  Requiring someone to explain why you got an answer like this is much different than explaining more higher level concepts.  Part of teaching the higher level concepts includes showing how you explain your answer.  It is not like if you are not writing paragraphs at 5, you will not be able to do them at 10.  It is a skill to be developed. 

 

(I have two kids who were very intuitive at learning math.  They self-taught from about 3rd grade on using Singapore.  They had no difficulty in learning how to show their work when the time came for it.  I just never required them to answer stupid questions.  ETA:  both had very high math scores on the SAT and one is considering switching majors from Physics to Math.) 

[Mergath]

So how would you require a little kid to explain why 2+7 = 9?  Using the available language and writing skills appropriate to the age that would be learning that, of course.  Requiring someone to explain why you got an answer like this is much different than explaining more higher level concepts.  Part of teaching the higher level concepts includes showing how you explain your answer.  It is not like if you are not writing paragraphs at 5, you will not be able to do them at 10.  It is a skill to be developed. 

 

(I have two kids who were very intuitive at learning math.  They self-taught from about 3rd grade on using Singapore.  They had no difficulty in learning how to show their work when the time came for it.  I just never required them to answer stupid questions.  ETA:  both had very high math scores on the SAT and one is considering switching majors from Physics to Math.) 

 

Draw pictures? Use a number line? Demonstrate with c-rods? 

[blondeviolin]

I always just assume those are ranting about math don't actually understand math. The large majority of adults cannot complete what we require kids in upper elementary to do. I just saw a request for a third grade math tutor because mom couldn't figure out the math. Sad, really.

[Tsuga]

 

 

So how would you require a little kid to explain why 2+7 = 9? 

 

I actually asked this and got some decent answers about how they show children to prove this in school.

 

• Draw a number line 1:10. Show that the distance between seven and nine is two spaces.
• Particularly when they are working on fives and tens, draw five points. Add two to show seven (in the next row). Then draw two x's. This method--starting from fives--was demonstrated in class and we got a handout on how to do it, but I forgot. The teacher explained that this, starting with two fives to make ten, was the beginning of explaining the base ten number system.
• Draw seven of something in one color. Group using a bracket and label with "7". Draw two in another color. Bracket. Label with "2". Bracket the entire picture with "9".

I just asked the teacher.

 

I agree that the amount of explanation required of children is a lot, but then... Singapore seems to have it, and the word problems and vocab in Beast Academy is similar.

 

I know plenty of engineers who can't explain why long division works, or any math whatsoever, actually.

 

It is a real problem, to be honest, because while they may be able to solve problems, their assumptions may be wrong, and their inability to articulate the choices they made and the reasoning behind them leaves those dealing with the results of the code in the dark. It is a big problem and IT is infamous for not being able to explain how they attached their problem solving to the real-world needs of the users. Not all IT professionals or engineers are like that, of course!

 

I think that not being able to explain why you do math is like not being able to explain why you use an "s" for a plural in most words but not all. Intuitive math skills only get you so far. You can't develop new things unless you really can articulate the why. It's great to be an intuitive speller, an intuitively good writer, an intuitive math problem solver. It's great. But if you don't know why you do what you do, if you can't explain it, you're going to run into problems.

 

And please nobody tell me engineers don't run into problems. Plenty of engineers run into problems, and many more may not make math mistakes but make translation from reality's requirements mistakes, and still others, don't get listened to in spite of being right in really important ways, because they can't explain the logic of what they are doing.

 

Being able to explain why is important when applying almost any skill. That's why lawyers make so much money for shooting their mouths off all day! It's not as easy as it looks.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think that's more of a public school problem than a cc problem, though. There's not enough time to help each kid find the method best for them and then make sure they really understand the concept, so the teachers make every kid do every method and hope something sticks by the end of the year. It's better than how they did it when I was in achool, where they taught one method and too bad for you if you didn't get it.

 

I totally agree, but whoever is to blame, it's a problem for some kids.  I've heard some parents say their math loving kid turned into a math hater and cries every day over math. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

 

I agree that the amount of explanation required of children is a lot, but then... Singapore seems to have it, and the word problems and vocab in Beast Academy is similar.

 

 

 

I don't see it.  Only MIF has this ridiculousness really.  PM, Standards, My Pals are Here, etc. never had that to that extent. 

[tm919]

The concepts are fine, but the implementation is often poor. The textbooks used in public school are often filled with errors and poorly written word problems. I also notice that teachers haven't always been adequately trained in conveying the method (I know of a case where a teacher marked a first grader's work from MiF WRONG although it was right. How confusing is that for children when the teacher doesn't really get it? I should note that when the parent went to the teacher to discuss it the teacher looked at it blankly, as if it weren't just a quick marking error -- they really had things reversed in their head). 

 

The other thing I hear parents complaining about here is that their children get upset when the parents use the wrong terminology. E.g., if a child is struggling with regrouping and the parent says "carrying," the child loses confidence in the parent's ability to help. Apparently some kids get really upset by the realization that their parents may not be able to help them... to the point of tears and yelling.

[ErinE]

Our local elementary school has a no-homework policy other than math facts and reading. Having dealt with a school district that required daily homework from DS (even in kindergarten), I am much happier and I'm sure my DD (always homeschooled) is grateful. If she has questions about math, she can ask the person who knows the curriculum, her teacher.

 

I've seen these worksheets; they are extremely frustrating. There's no sample problem for parents to follow and until I started homeschooling using Asian math, the terms are unfamiliar. It isn't uncommon to see "What's 7+2? Explain your answer." Cue meltdown with tears, because your first grader keeps saying, "Seven plus two is nine. It just is. What does this mean?!?" And you as the parent have no clue what is expected.

 

I think these parents complaints are valid. They've just latched onto the term "Common Core" when it's the district policies and implementation that should be blamed.

[kiana]

I do actually agree that they should be able to explain how they know their answer, but I also think that explanations should be appropriately modeled and I am not sure this is happening in schools.

 

I have said before but I will repeat -- I think a tremendous amount of this resistance could be done away with if the major publishers would publish a FREE, online, "Parent's guide to xxx math" for each grade. 

 

And if I had any say in texts I would strongly push for whichever publisher did this first to be adopted, because it would be worth it to not have parents calling/writing me to complain about the text when I agree with them.

 

Honestly this is why my friend's small private school went with Math Mammoth, because it was still CC and the directions were on the sheets so the parents knew what the kid was supposed to do. Most of the parents are much, much happier than they were with a more standard school program. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

With homeschooling, the huge advantage is having the kid be able to explain stuff out loud, and I don't have to require them to write an essay about a basic math problem.  It is more challenging to pull this off with a large group.  But yeah they should develop a specific procedure for explaining a concept.  The books I've seen just have this huge lined space that ask the student to write an explanation for the problem in words.  Hopefully there is more guidance than that in a classroom situation!  I've seen this in the first grade books.  Many are still probably learning to get the hang of penmanship.  That must be very difficult for many of the students!  And I'm not sure if that is even appropriate for many first graders. 

 

 

 

 

[chiguirre]

I don't see it.  Only MIF has this ridiculousness really.  PM, Standards, My Pals are Here, etc. never had that to that extent. 

I agree. We used PM US Edition. There would be a couple of problems that required explanation, but then they just let the kid do the math. I think two or three problems that require drawing or number line are fine, but more than that is just annoying if the kid gets it. If a kid doesn't get it, then you should reteach the concept anyway.

[kiana]

I agree. We used PM US Edition. There would be a couple of problems that required explanation, but then they just let the kid do the math. I think two or three problems that require drawing or number line are fine, but more than that is just annoying if the kid gets it. If a kid doesn't get it, then you should reteach the concept anyway.

 

Yes yes yes. 

 

One or two to show that they get it? Fine.

 

Explaining MANY addition problems? Seriously, if I carefully explained how I knew two plus five is seven, why on earth do you need me to explain two plus seven? 

 

Turning math into language arts just makes one more thing for kids who struggle with language arts to hate. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I agree. We used PM US Edition. There would be a couple of problems that required explanation, but then they just let the kid do the math. I think two or three problems that require drawing or number line are fine, but more than that is just annoying if the kid gets it. If a kid doesn't get it, then you should reteach the concept anyway.

 

I'm using MIF 5a now.  What a pile of poo this book is.  There is some haphazard lesson squeezed in on how to use a calculator.  Thank goodness I didn't pay much for these books. The whole book is just so odd.

 

I'm looking for something else. 

 

Yeah, why not just use PM or Standards?  Unfortunately, my kid also hates school and math and all of it.  It's been challenging to find stuff he responds positively to.

[Guest]

So this year my kids are in brick and mortar school for the first time, and their school uses Everyday Math. And it's terrible IMO, at least so far. I don't blame parents for complaining about it.

 

I get what you are saying, that you see good things about the Common Core math approach. But the truth is that these parents are stuck with the math that the school has chosen. They don't have another option and just have to deal with it. Their kids are struggling (perhaps for good reason if it is a poorly developed curriculum or they have an ineffective math teacher). They don't like it and want to vent.

I think *this* is the real difficulty with Common Core. I have told friends that homeschooling is not similar to what they experience when they try to help their school kids with homework. *I* chose the curriculum; I have the teacher's manual. I understand the approach to math used in my curriculum and if ever I don't like it, I can change it. Parents of school kids are at a disadvantage because they have to do what the school is doing and don't have the guide as to what these groupings and concept stuff mean. They cannot adjust the approach, slow down, speed up or in any way modify what the school requires. I think *that* is a large part of the frustration.

[kiana]

I think *this* is the real difficulty with Common Core. I have told friends that homeschooling is not similar to what they experience when they try to help their school kids with homework. *I* chose the curriculum; I have the teacher's manual. I understand the approach to math used in my curriculum and if ever I don't like it, I can change it. Parents of school kids are at a disadvantage because they have to do what the school is doing and don't have the guide as to what these groupings and concept stuff mean. They cannot adjust the approach, slow down, speed up or in any way modify what the school requires. I think *that* is a large part of the frustration.

 

Plus they feel stupid because "This is first grade math, why can't I do it? How stupid am I if I don't understand first grade math?"

 

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