Explain gender of shoes to kid or not?

[luuknam]

It sounds to me like letting him be himself means supporting him in wearing boys' clothes.  Encouraging him to wear girls' clothes sounds like letting him be the way *you* think people should be, instead of how he actually is.

 

I don't think I'm 'encouraging' him to wear girl's shoes. It's not like we go to the store and I grab some pink, sparkly shoes and say "hey, do you like these?". I've even tried steering him toward boy's stuff in the past, like when he wanted a Hello Kitty backpack for first grade and I pointed out all the cool boy's backpacks, suggested going to another store to see what they had, etc. But no, he really wanted the Hello Kitty backpack. So, he got the Hello Kitty backpack, was happy as a clam, and it never was an issue as far as I'm aware. And for clothes I usually buy boy's clothes for him without him present, since it's just more convenient and most of that doesn't need to be tried on - shoes definitely need to be tried on before buying though, which means he's there.

[Amy in NH]

The thing is, this kid *wants* to be a boy and wear boys' clothes. It is important to him. It would seem to be almost a betrayal to buy girls' shoes for a boy who luuknam knows wants to only wear boys' things without first telling him that the shoes were made for girls. It also sounds like he would be perfectly happy with shoes from the boys department.

 

I don't know why any mom would intentionally choose pink and sparkly shoes for their sons if bullying is already a concern, and the boy would just as readily wear boys shoes. Why add fuel to the fire, particularly in this case where the boy's priority is to do boy things and wear boys' clothing?

 

What makes you think Mom picked out the shoes for him? 

 

Why do shoes marketed toward girls only get to be bought and worn by girls?  Why are any clothes or shoes gender specific?

 

Why can't he be a boy and wear shoes he likes?

 

I'm not saying she shouldn't tell him they are usually marketed to girls, just that he should know that boys can wear them too. 

[SKL]

I thought the question was whether she should inform him that those are considered girls' shoes by most people, versus buying them and letting him find out from his peers that they are girls' shoes.

 

I know that as a school kid, I would have been mortified if my peers had informed me that my shoes were clearly designed for the other sex.

[SKL]

I don't think I'm 'encouraging' him to wear girl's shoes. It's not like we go to the store and I grab some pink, sparkly shoes and say "hey, do you like these?".

 

Buying them for him without a word is encouraging IMO.

 

[IsabelC]

We try to explain stuff that comes up around gender expectation ridiculousness. Initially my feeling was that it would be better to try for a 'non-gendered' upbringing, ie, never let the kid even find out that some things are 'for boys/girls'. However, unless you are living an extremely secluded lifestyle with no access to other people or media, you can't keep it away from your children. If the boy likes pink sparkly shoes, that's lovely, good for him. But the fact is that he is very likely to receive some form of social sanction on account of this. It might be as mild as a kid calling him gay (no problem, because you've already told him that it doesn't matter what other kids think, and that there's nothing wrong with being gay anyway), but it might be serious and dangerous bullying. In any case, he's going to find out that he has broken an unwritten social rule (boys aren't allowed to dress like girls unless they are celebrities), so it's better that he learns about it from his parents who can deal with it gently. The way we handle it is to tell the kids that society has certain expectations, some of the expectations are unfair and/or stupid, and that they can make their own choice (within reason) as to when they want to rebel and when they want to conform. There's a fine line we (liberal  parents) have to tread between shoehorning kids into predetermined roles vs erring in the other direction and pressuring our kids to be nonconforming in order to demonstrate our own political correctness.

[luuknam]

I think part of the problem here is that we don't know *why* he wants clothes/shoes from the boy's section when there are obviously separate sections. Autistic kids can be quite literal, rigid, black and white in their thinking. He probably isn't thinking about wearing boy's clothes to fit in; he's probably just stuck not understanding that what the store says the gender of a given pair of shoes is does not mean that only kids of that gender can wear them. This same kid for the longest time would insist that entering kindergartners need to be 5yo, entering first graders have to be 6yo, etc, no exceptions.

 

I don't want him to feel like there is something wrong with him for liking pink and sparkly things. And explaining to him that pink and sparkly = for girls would, at this point in time, possibly make him feel like he shouldn't like the things he likes. If he were to ask, if they were boy's or girl's shoes, I wouldn't lie. I'd tell him that most people would think of them as girl's shoes, but that I believe that's silly and that if he likes them he can wear them. I mean, if he *really* cared *that* much about only wearing boy's clothes, you'd think he'd ask, no?

 

Oh, and at school, he's picked out necklaces and similar things from the prize box without me there (which then had me sending in a note to the teacher asking if he got that necklace at school or if some girl's necklace accidentally ended up in his backpack). He really likes girly bling.

 

Bullying is only a concern as far as it's something that *could* happen in the future.

[luuknam]

Buying them for him without a word is encouraging IMO.

 

 

I would call that "failing to discourage", rather than "encouraging".

[IsabelC]

So I would simply tell him "it's OK for you to wear whatever color shoes you like. But you should know that some people have silly ideas like pink being only for girls." If he wants, you could role play what to say if anybody comments about his footwear. Depending on his level of understanding and interest, you could elaborate, for example explaining how gendered clothing and toys are a marketing gimmick. My kids are very smug that they know the manufacturers and shops are 'trying to trick us', and enjoy laughing at the more ridiculous items for sale (I will ham it up and say things in the shop like "Oh thank goddess, there is a pink hammer! Isn't that great! I'll have to buy that, because women just can't hammer anything with any other colored hammer!").

[luuknam]

I thought the question was whether she should inform him that those are considered girls' shoes by most people, versus buying them and letting him find out from his peers that they are girls' shoes.

 

I know that as a school kid, I would have been mortified if my peers had informed me that my shoes were clearly designed for the other sex.

 

Well, last summer's pink sandals with flowers fared just fine, with him just saying "I like them" when someone said something.

 

I'm still not sure whether I believe that he doesn't know pink is for girls, or whether he's doing a "don't ask, don't tell" kind of thing, where as long as the store doesn't say it's for girls it's all good.

[texasmama]

I think we owe it to our kids (whether or not they are on the autism spectrum) to explain the unwritten "rules" of society to them.  I would not only explain that the pink shoes are intended for girls, I would also explain that if he wears them he might get teased.

This, particularly for a child on the spectrum who would otherwise at his age be able to intuit this information but because of being on the spectrum, does not.

 

ETA:  I do have a child on the spectrum.

[Catwoman]

I think part of the problem here is that we don't know *why* he wants clothes/shoes from the boy's section when there are obviously separate sections. Autistic kids can be quite literal, rigid, black and white in their thinking. He probably isn't thinking about wearing boy's clothes to fit in; he's probably just stuck not understanding that what the store says the gender of a given pair of shoes is does not mean that only kids of that gender can wear them. This same kid for the longest time would insist that entering kindergartners need to be 5yo, entering first graders have to be 6yo, etc, no exceptions.

 

I don't want him to feel like there is something wrong with him for liking pink and sparkly things. And explaining to him that pink and sparkly = for girls would, at this point in time, possibly make him feel like he shouldn't like the things he likes. If he were to ask, if they were boy's or girl's shoes, I wouldn't lie. I'd tell him that most people would think of them as girl's shoes, but that I believe that's silly and that if he likes them he can wear them. I mean, if he *really* cared *that* much about only wearing boy's clothes, you'd think he'd ask, no?

 

Oh, and at school, he's picked out necklaces and similar things from the prize box without me there (which then had me sending in a note to the teacher asking if he got that necklace at school or if some girl's necklace accidentally ended up in his backpack). He really likes girly bling.

 

Bullying is only a concern as far as it's something that *could* happen in the future.

I think you may be over-complicating this. There is no reason why you can't agree with your ds that the pink sparkly stuff is pretty, yet still suggest that he choose shoes from the boys department.

 

He doesn't have to give up his fascination with bling, but I do think that as his parent, it would be a sensible idea for you to teach your son what is and what is not considered to be socially acceptable. I think this is particularly important for a black and white thinker like your son. If you convince him that it is perfectly fine for him to wear pink sparkly shoes when he's 7 or 8, he may feel that he should still be wearing them when he is 12 or 13, and when he is that age, he will almost certainly take a lot of grief for it from other kids.

 

Maybe you don't care if he wears pink sparkly shoes when he is 12. Maybe you will think it's cute. But other people won't, and your son will be the one who suffers for it.

 

I'm not saying that anyone should ever bully anyone else for what they wear. In an ideal world, people could wear whatever they wanted to wear, and everyone would be fine with it. But this isn't an ideal world, and your son is a real person with strong feelings and emotions and I would hate to see him hurt just because you taught him it was fine to wear girls' shoes (or whatever) because you wanted him to be able to wear whatever he wanted, without warning him that society might not be as accepting about it as you are. He might even end up very angry with you about it.

 

Again, I think it's possible for this to be a win-win situation. You can agree with him that pink sparkly shoes are very cool, yet still buy his shoes in the boys department. And there is nothing to say that you can't buy him some fun and sparkly stuff to play with at home. I really think you can show him that you accept and support the things he likes, while still teaching him how to be socially acceptable.

 

I'm probably phrasing this very poorly.

[Tsuga]

I would not explain other people's bullcrap prejudices, but I would prepare myself for a conversation about what people said. "Oh yes, some people think that only girls wear pink or care about movies about females. I know, right? And at one time women weren't even allowed to ride bicycles because they weren't allowed to wear dresses! Isn't society so messed up? I'm glad we have each other!"

 

 

 

A kid from the other team starts teasing him about wearing girl shoes. Without missing a beat, my son tellhim, "I'm so sad that you have offended the shoes of eternal happiness. Now you can never be happy again."

 

Oh my god your son and my daughter would be perfect together. I hope my daughters find a guy like him. That is so awesome.

[foxbridgeacademy]

I would inform him in terms he will understand that traditionally those shoes would be worn by girls but with the swift changes in social acceptance of non traditional gender roles/ gender fluidity(no bias for pink and pretty versus blue and handsome) that wearing pretty shoes is just fine but totally his choice and that's why the store put them together so he can decide for himself. I would probably buy the shoes (at least 1 pair) and keep them around, even if he only wears them in the house.  Boys like to look pretty sometimes too.

[Tsuga]

Maybe you don't care if he wears pink sparkly shoes when he is 12. Maybe you will think it's cute. But other people won't, and your son will be the one who suffers for it.

 

Yeah, and screw those a-holes. Bring it on, mofos, bring. it. on. Bring ON the bullying. To me, to my kids. You want me to dress my kids for the sole purpose of not getting made fun of by the scum of the earth? To live my life and express myself for the sake of pleasing those lowlifes?

 

What a joke.

 

I don't let TOTAL JERKS rule my life.

 

Bring it on, kids. I have kids who wear capes, banana costumes, karate suits to school. I wore combat boots, trench coats, and boys' jeans.

 

Screw them all. This is MY body, not their body. I have found it invaluable to be able to stand up to the a-holes of the world and stand my ground.

 

I'd rather be bullied than live in fear of a bully. Let them tell me why they don't like me: it's better than doing what they want.

 

You don't think we should give into terrorists or blackmailers, right? So why let bullies dress our kids? To me, it's the same principle. You don't give in to the people who will do anything to hurt you, because giving in is losing.

 

Wear the princess shoes, fellas, and little girls, cut your hair in a mohawk. Do it. It's liberating, it really is. Just wait until you see the look on that bully's face when you laugh at their stupid teases. They are terrified. It's beautiful.

 

I also think that Asperger's black and white thinking is beautiful and necessary in this world and just try to tell me to change that about myself or that a kid should change that about himself. No. I think those kids are beautiful the way they are. It's the intolerant people who have a problem. Not the kids.

[Tanaqui]

And at one time women weren't even allowed to ride bicycles because they weren't allowed to wear dresses!

 

I think you added an extra negation there :laugh:

[foxbridgeacademy]

My 12 year old DD has pink hair cut boy-style, wears army fatigues with suede boots, a cute tank top, and a fedora (she also wears a black leather jacket when it's cold and carries a black leather book bag for a purse). She gets stared at, especially yesterday in the walmart parking lot when her daddy gave her an impromptu lesson on the combustible engine while they put washer fluid in the car (she was asking intelligent questions).  She's unique and her clothes show it.  So if a kid wants to wear something out of the ordinary I think a parent should gently inform of what could happen (no surprises) but encourage the choice, even if it makes them cringe a bit inside (I don't like her boots, I think they are a little too much). Because, my daughter is confident and self assured, now.  This is a complete makeover of the person she was (with strangers) just 2 years ago.  We gave her the tools and encouraged her to express herself and she "blossomed".

[Catwoman]

Yeah, and screw those a-holes. Bring it on, mofos, bring. it. on. Bring ON the bullying. To me, to my kids. You want me to dress my kids for the sole purpose of not getting made fun of by the scum of the earth? To live my life and express myself for the sake of pleasing those lowlifes?

 

What a joke.

 

I don't let TOTAL JERKS rule my life.

 

Bring it on, kids. I have kids who wear capes, banana costumes, karate suits to school. I wore combat boots, trench coats, and boys' jeans.

 

Screw them all. This is MY body, not their body. I have found it invaluable to be able to stand up to the a-holes of the world and stand my ground.

 

I'd rather be bullied than live in fear of a bully. Let them tell me why they don't like me: it's better than doing what they want.

 

You don't think we should give into terrorists or blackmailers, right? So why let bullies dress our kids? To me, it's the same principle. You don't give in to the people who will do anything to hurt you, because giving in is losing.

 

Wear the princess shoes, fellas, and little girls, cut your hair in a mohawk. Do it. It's liberating, it really is. Just wait until you see the look on that bully's face when you laugh at their stupid teases. They are terrified. It's beautiful.

 

I also think that Asperger's black and white thinking is beautiful and necessary in this world and just try to tell me to change that about myself or that a kid should change that about himself. No. I think those kids are beautiful the way they are. It's the intolerant people who have a problem. Not the kids.

Wow.

 

You seem incredibly emotional and aggressive about this.

 

I'm sorry if I offended you, but I stand by my opinions. I hope we can agree to disagree.

[SKL]

Actually I think it is the norm for neurotypical elementary-age kids to be "black and white" about certain clothes being only for girls.

 

It is the rare 7/8yo who wants to rock his own daring style, even though many might secretly wish they could at times.

 

A kid who did not even realize the shoes in question were "girl shoes" is likely to find himself on the wrong side of all sorts of social situations.  I don't see the point in sending him out in conspicuous dress without his even realizing it.  I don't think it's worth whatever benefit is thought to be gained by making the statement that boys can wear pink sparkles too.

 

If he *wants* to make a statement, OK maybe, but only if he is able to deal with the likely results.  "Bring it on, bullies" works for some kids, but not for all kids.

[bibiche]

The times they are a-changin'.

 

Why put past prejudices and stereotypes onto a new generation? I'm with Tsuga: screw that. Let people be what they want to be. When kids have the freedom to be who they are, they're not scared. When they're not scared they're not going to bully or allow themselves to be bullied. I see a lot of parents propagating stereotypes that really just need to end.

[Joyofsixreboot]

You bought the shoes already, right? I'd remind him " many people" think they are for girls but if he wants to wear them I'd let him. My 7 yo consistently pick shoes and clothes from the boy section. Sadly it seems girls can do this while boys get more ridicule. Unless you think he'll be actively bullied by someone I'd let him choose. We have also had home clothes. The pink power ranger costume my now 14 yo son favored comes to mind.

[MEmama]

My 12.5 yo son recently bought pink and gray shoes from the women's section--intentionally. He loves that they look a lot like a pair I already own (hiking shoe buddies!) and that they are the same size I wear. They fit him perfectly because they are narrower than men's shoes, and he's all about function and comfort.

 

I did debate a little bit about it, I'll admit. Not that I care or think anyone else should care if he wears pink shoes, but at the time he also had long hair and was constantly referred to as a girl (innocently, never out of meanness). In the end we said nothing; he clearly knows they are women's shoes and doesn't care, and can handle any potential consequences. I'm glad he has his own style and is completely self assured.

 

I agree that we shouldn't foster stereotypes, but I also do think (especially younger) kids have the right to know that when they are bucking the norm they may questioned. Having a few gentle, well rehearsed comebacks in the back pocket might be a good idea for some kids who might not otherwise know how to handle it. Others will be fine on their own.

 

Good for your son. I hope he enjoys his sparkles and wears them with confidence and joy. And good for you, mama, for helping him navigate the sad reality that shoe choice isn't always as simple as it ought to be.

[MEmama]

Interestingly, among my son's friends, hot pink is a favorite color. His best friend was over the moon excited when his ultimate frisbee team was given hot pink shorts as their uniform. :).

[GinaPagnato]

Not for nothin, but I have noticed that stores like Target and American Eagle have TONS of boy's and men's clothes in lighter colors, like pink and light blue. Preppy is back. However, the cuts of the clothing are distinctly male. I believe that a boy or a man can wear clothes of brighter/lighter colors without purposefully wearing clothing that was designed to appeal to girls.

 

I agree that all the navy/grey/olive green clothing for boys can get dull. So, direct your son toward some preppy looks to satisfy his desire for color.

[marbel]

This has not been our experience past the toddler age. There's just so many garments in dark, dull colors for boys. After a certain age there was less and less red and yellow and orange. Even the blues go more dark navy.

 

 

Interesting.  I was in Walmart looking for a shirt for my son and it was hard to find the dull colors he likes.   :-)  There was a lot of pink, bright purple, orange, etc. 

 

This was in the young men's area, not boys' though.  I would expect the same in the boys' department, but, maybe not.

 

I thought the trend was toward more "traditionally feminine" colors for men/boys now?

 

I'm sorry for everyone who can't find clothes that suit.  It's important to feel good in our clothing.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Maybe it depends on where you live? And also the disposition of your child. It just wasn't that hard because it's not a big deal here and my son wasn't the sort to be crushed by that sort of teasing.

 

People have been murdered, harassed, etc. over stuff like that.  So what do I do?  I hate that this kind of attitude exists, but I can't deny it exists.  I'm torn between wanting to protect my kid's safety and wanting to protect what I see as a person's freedom to choose stuff like what they want to wear.

 

I can totally see why boys might like what's in the girl's department.  It's way more sparkly and fun looking.  The boys stuff is boring.  Probably the most excited I get by boy's clothes are graphic t-shirts.

 

That said, I have not always nixed the requests.  Probably the biggest "nix" was one of mine chose pink glasses.  I said well some people might claim those are for girls.  That was mostly because I'm not spending $300 on a pair of glasses that he'll come tell me next week are girly and he's not wearing them.  With a $20 pair of shoes at Walmart, I can get over it. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Interesting.  I was in Walmart looking for a shirt for my son and it was hard to find the dull colors he likes.   :-)  There was a lot of pink, bright purple, orange, etc. 

 

This was in the young men's area, not boys' though.  I would expect the same in the boys' department, but, maybe not.

 

I thought the trend was toward more "traditionally feminine" colors for men/boys now?

 

I'm sorry for everyone who can't find clothes that suit.  It's important to feel good in our clothing.

 

I wish.  I think the boys stuff is so boring.  Many times I go and there is hardly any selection.  Everything looks the same.

[luuknam]

You bought the shoes already, right? I'd remind him " many people" think they are for girls but if he wants to wear them I'd let him. My 7 yo consistently pick shoes and clothes from the boy section. Sadly it seems girls can do this while boys get more ridicule. Unless you think he'll be actively bullied by someone I'd let him choose. We have also had home clothes. The pink power ranger costume my now 14 yo son favored comes to mind.

 

Yes, we have the shoes already, and he's out wearing the Frozen sneakers to school (only today and Monday are left until it's summer). I was more asking in a "for future reference" kind of way.

 

First grade's Hello Kitty backpack and last summer's pink sandals with flowers weren't ever an issue. He's had a few people comment on the sandals (not sure about the backpack, but I'd imagine at least *someone* would have said *something*), so this isn't new to him. If this was the first time he'd selected something gender-nonconforming, I probably would have explained to him that most people would see those as girl's shoes and that some people might make fun of him. And, in case anyone is wondering, I wouldn't let him wear a skirt or dress (accidentally or otherwise) for anything other than pretend play/Halloween, unless he insists he wants to be a girl (I don't think that'll happen).

 

Maybe I'll just throw in a little unit study on gender throughout history early on this coming school year.

[Chris in VA]

Yeah, and screw those a-holes. Bring it on, mofos, bring. it. on. Bring ON the bullying. To me, to my kids. You want me to dress my kids for the sole purpose of not getting made fun of by the scum of the earth? To live my life and express myself for the sake of pleasing those lowlifes?

 

What a joke.

 

I don't let TOTAL JERKS rule my life.

 

Bring it on, kids. I have kids who wear capes, banana costumes, karate suits to school. I wore combat boots, trench coats, and boys' jeans.

 

Screw them all. This is MY body, not their body. I have found it invaluable to be able to stand up to the a-holes of the world and stand my ground.

 

I'd rather be bullied than live in fear of a bully. Let them tell me why they don't like me: it's better than doing what they want.

 

You don't think we should give into terrorists or blackmailers, right? So why let bullies dress our kids? To me, it's the same principle. You don't give in to the people who will do anything to hurt you, because giving in is losing.

 

Wear the princess shoes, fellas, and little girls, cut your hair in a mohawk. Do it. It's liberating, it really is. Just wait until you see the look on that bully's face when you laugh at their stupid teases. They are terrified. It's beautiful.

 

I also think that Asperger's black and white thinking is beautiful and necessary in this world and just try to tell me to change that about myself or that a kid should change that about himself. No. I think those kids are beautiful the way they are. It's the intolerant people who have a problem. Not the kids.

 

I get the anger.

I just wonder if an 8 yo kid with Asperger's is really ready to deal with the consequences of a socially unusual choice.

 

More than that, though, I think he looks to Mom for guidance on what is "right." It is hard for us Aspies to hear that there is more than one right choice. Maybe it's important for him to learn that. IDK.

 

(Bolded part mine)Mostly, though, I wonder if his preference for black and white thinking should be honored, or whether it should be corrected. If it is beautiful and necessary, then shouldn't it be allowed to "be" and not be changed? He wants boy stuff. He didn't know the shoes were not "boy stuff" in the way he is defining it. He does not want to make a mistake.

 

I understand his point of view. He is trying to stay within parameters, but perhaps he needs to have those parameters changed.

 

It's confusing to me to know what to do.

 

I think OP that you are very loving and kind to your son.

 

 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Yes, we have the shoes already, and he's out wearing the Frozen sneakers to school (only today and Monday are left until it's summer). I was more asking in a "for future reference" kind of way.

 

First grade's Hello Kitty backpack and last summer's pink sandals with flowers weren't ever an issue. He's had a few people comment on the sandals (not sure about the backpack, but I'd imagine at least *someone* would have said *something*), so this isn't new to him. If this was the first time he'd selected something gender-nonconforming, I probably would have explained to him that most people would see those as girl's shoes and that some people might make fun of him. And, in case anyone is wondering, I wouldn't let him wear a skirt or dress (accidentally or otherwise) for anything other than pretend play/Halloween, unless he insists he wants to be a girl (I don't think that'll happen).

 

Maybe I'll just throw in a little unit study on gender throughout history early on this coming school year.

 

I think it's great he hasn't had any negative reactions. 

 

One of mine had a favorite pink shirt.  He went to a summer camp thing and then suddenly he no longer wanted to wear the shirt.  And I actually bought that shirt in the boy's department.  So someone must have said something.  Ppl can be so ridiculous. 

[EKS]

I'm afraid I can agree with that from experience. Which is part of the reason I'm reluctant to try to get my son to fit in with society's stereotypes. I'd rather that he proudly wears his sparkly pink shoes than that he tries to fit in and still fails. The more I tried to fit in, the worse things got, probably because I felt more insecure, because I never knew if I was doing things 'right', and the bullies always found stuff to pick on, no matter how nonsensical. I want my son to know that of course wearing what he likes is right.

 

Then it sounds like you have your answer.

[Bluegoat]

I don't know how much of an explanation there needs to be, other than "No, these shoes are not appropriate."

 

Well, that doesn't seem like it would offer him much insight into the nature of social expectations about clothing.

 

OP, I would explain it to him.  I don't have a problem with things that are inherently neutral and also pretty much irrelevant, like colours, being associated with one sex or the other.  In fact I think those are the ideal sorts of things to use in that way, rather than masculinizing or feminizing things that do impact people or society in a significant way. It is just one way that humans build culture around their biological and social realities, and I think that is a deep human need and so likely serves an important social function. 

 

Pink or blue for boys or girls is somewhat random, it has no significant effect on society or individuals, and it can even be flouted, for whatever reason, without serious social consequences.  That in itself might be valuable, it is so difficult to flout society when there are no social norms.

With someone who doesn't easily pick up on those kinds of social cues, I think telling about them explicitly is going to be important.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's so odd to me why some colors are associated with males/females.  Both of my boys think pink is the best color.  They love pink.  I hate pink.  I mean really can't stand to wear anything pink.  Go figure. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's way easier being a girl in this case I think.  Nobody would be asking whether or not to buy the t-shirt their daughter wanted from the boy's department.  The shoes wouldn't be an issue either. 

 

 

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

I let my kids (both boys) pick what they want.

 

I've also had age appropriate discussions on the dumb responses they might get, including what to say or do in response.

 

One of my sons has long beautiful hair, and both like pink and colorful choices. So we have encountered plenty of ridiculous commentary.

[Bluegoat]

It's so odd to me why some colors are associated with males/females.  Both of my boys think pink is the best color.  They love pink.  I hate pink.  I mean really can't stand to wear anything pink.  Go figure. 

 

It's just historical accident, like a lot of the aesthetic aspects of fashion.  Sometimes it has some sort of association with other cultural meanings given to particular colours.  I don't think that is especially true in the modern west though, colour preferences are mostly driven by the fashion industry.

 

If I were going to spend energy resisting something in the world of irrelevant fashion decisions, it would be that aspect of it that makes us think, and often feel, that the things that seemed great a few years ago - bootleg jeans say - are now passe and frumpy and we all need to wear (that is,buy) skinny jeans instead, or paint our beige living rooms grey, or whatever.

[SparklyUnicorn]

It's just historical accident, like a lot of the aesthetic aspects of fashion.  Sometimes it has some sort of association with other cultural meanings given to particular colours.  I don't think that is especially true in the modern west though, colour preferences are mostly driven by the fashion industry.

 

If I were going to spend energy resisting something in the world of irrelevant fashion decisions, it would be that aspect of it that makes us think, and often feel, that the things that seemed great a few years ago - bootleg jeans say - are now passe and frumpy and we all need to wear (that is,buy) skinny jeans instead, or paint our beige living rooms grey, or whatever.

 

Yeah it's bizarre we let the fashion industry tell us what's cool or not. 

[mom2scouts]

When I was in high school, I wore high top Converse.  I'm sure you're thinking that's not a big deal because lots of girls wear them now, but it was a big deal then. High tops were worn by boys and it was just barely acceptable for female basketball players to wear them during play.  I liked the way they looked and felt, so I started wearing them to school.  Almost every single day, someone would point out that I was wearing high tops and say, "Only boys wear high top Converse!" and I would reply, "Obviously not because I'm a girl and I'm wearing them." I felt very smug when, years later, they became fashionable for girls and my SIL thought she was so fashion forward because she bought her daughter pink high top Converse.  It's the only time in my life that I can say I was a fashion trend setter! LOL! 

 

I would tell your son that most people would consider them to be girl shoes and he might be teased, but let him choose.

[SparklyUnicorn]

When I was in high school, I wore high top Converse.  I'm sure you're thinking that's not a big deal because lots of girls wear them now, but it was a big deal then. High tops were worn by boys and it was just barely acceptable for female basketball players to wear them during play.  I liked the way they looked and felt, so I started wearing them to school.  Almost every single day, someone would point out that I was wearing high tops and say, "Only boys wear high top Converse!" and I would reply, "Obviously not because I'm a girl and I'm wearing them." I felt very smug when, years later, they became fashionable for girls and my SIL thought she was so fashion forward because she bought her daughter pink high top Converse.  It's the only time in my life that I can say I was a fashion trend setter! LOL! 

 

I would tell your son that most people would consider them to be girl shoes and he might be teased, but let him choose.

 

Huh, interesting.  They were popular when I was in high school.  I had a pair too.  So did lots of other girls.

[Dmmetler]

I'd tell him "Some people think Elsa (or pink and sparkly) is just for girls, so they may think these are girls' shoes, but if that's what you want, it's OK".

 

FWIW, many male cheerleaders I know wear women's cheer shoes unless their feet are just plain too big to get them. There are a LOT more varieties of the soft, flexible soled,supportive cheer shoes for women at a range of price points (we've found fairly good ones well below $50) than ones sold for men, and usually there are multiple styles available locally to try on. For men, it's usually a special order item and one that starts at $100 or more. And really, white athletic shoes are about as gender-neutral as you can get! FWIW, when we have a young boy cheering with us, we always send them to Payless- which has a youth line of cheer shoes (that aren't bad quality, actually), BECAUSE it's not gender divided and they can just pick up a pair of white shoes without having to go into the "girls" aisle.

 

And on the "no one comments as far as girls go", DD10 got a lot of comments assuming she was a little boy when she was younger, and it's actually one reason why she now refuses to cut her hair. She's always gravitated to the boys' section (or to racks at national and state park gift shops), because you just don't find many reptile-themed and dinosaur themed shirts sold for girls. Coupled with shorts or jeans, and, yeah, it might be hard to tell. And while she went through a skirts/tutus everywhere phase, that's not very conducive for catching snakes. So, she also gravitated towards hair bows, braids, and various styles that were definitely girly to go with her jeans and t-shirts. (Now, her most common hairstyle is a bun made around a snap bracelet snake, with the head poking out).  I also suspect that one reason why she gravitated towards cheer is that it's a "girly" sport-one where big bows, lots of makeup, and glitter are de rigueur for female athletes. It's a chance to get her "girly" on when she spends so much of her life where sunscreen, short nails, and hats with mosquito netting are much more common.

 

 

 

 

[mom2scouts]

Huh, interesting.  They were popular when I was in high school.  I had a pair too.  So did lots of other girls.

Obviously I'm a lot older than you! LOL!

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'd tell him "Some people think Elsa is just for girls, so they may think these are girls' shoes, but if that's what you want, it's OK".

 

FWIW, most male cheerleaders I know wear women's cheer shoes unless their feet are just plain too big to get them. There are a LOT more varieties of the soft, flexible soled,supportive cheer shoes for women at a range of price points (we've found fairly good ones well below $50) than ones sold for men, and usually there are multiple styles available locally to try on. For men, it's usually a special order item and one that starts at $100 or more. And really, white athletic shoes are about as gender-neutral as you can get!

 

It's like dance stuff.  I used to get catalogs with dance attire because my kids were both in dance.  There would be 500 pages of girl stuff and one page for boys.  My kids would be so disappointed with the costumes for the shows.  The girls would get this super fancy looking thing and they'd get....a shirt.  That's it. 

Well at least they had fun/cute costumes for the Nutcracker. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

Obviously I'm a lot older than you! LOL!

 

I could laugh hysterically at some of the styles.  Another odd thing that was very popular was for girls to wear boxer shorts over thermal underwear.  I can't believe I went to school dressed like that.  Hahaha...

[In The Great White North]

 

 

 I wouldn't have this problem because I would never ever let my son wear that (12 votes [15.19%])

 

 

Or my daughter either.  They're not walking advertisements for Disney.

[SparklyUnicorn]

Or my daughter either.  They're not walking advertisements for Disney.

 

I don't see it that way.  Some people find that stuff fun.  I have a couple of Big Bang Theory t-shirts.  I don't wear them because I'm advertising.  I wear them because it's fun and I enjoy the show. 

[extendedforecast]

I would tell him that the shoes were designed for girls, but it doesn't mean that he can't wear them. If he likes the design better, it's perfectly fine. I did the same thing with my daughters when they wanted to buy an outfit or shoes that were meant for boys. Same thing with toys and bikes and other stuff.

[texasmama]

I'm all about my kids having information and making informed choices.  With a kid on the spectrum, the information is not intuited in the way that NT kids intuit it.  With my spectrum kid, I explicitly explain societal "rules" and the reasons behind them, as much as I can.  I tell him some things are just considered "weird".  I also tell him he can choose to be considered "weird" if he wants, but I do want him to have the choice.  Otherwise, it is an unkindness on my part to allow him to stumble about discovering these things on his own while people titter or point out to him his "weirdness".  My kid on the spectrum very much does not want to stick out or draw attention to himself, and without explicit, detailed information from me, he might do just that.  The consequences for him would be potentially very damaging. 

[SparklyUnicorn]

I'm all about my kids having information and making informed choices.  With a kid on the spectrum, the information is not intuited in the way that NT kids intuit it.  With my spectrum kid, I explicitly explain societal "rules" and the reasons behind them, as much as I can.  I tell him some things are just considered "weird".  I also tell him he can choose to be considered "weird" if he wants, but I do want him to have the choice.  Otherwise, it is an unkindness on my part to allow him to stumble about discovering these things on his own while people titter or point out to him his "weirdness".  My kid on the spectrum very much does not want to stick out or draw attention to himself, and without explicit, detailed information from me, he might do just that.  The consequences for him would be potentially very damaging. 

 

I mostly agree.  But I am curious as to what you tell him regarding the "reasons behind it".  I mean why, for example, is there some reason for girl's having the option of sparkly shoes, but not boys?  I can't think of a good reason at all. 

 

That's why I find this stuff rather difficult to deal with.  I have no doubt my kids would have figured that stuff out if they went to school.  But being they have a lot more freedom from this kind of carp, they can get away with more.  I'm glad for that.  But then sometimes I wonder if I'm setting them up for major problems by not explaining this stuff.  If I say anything at all it's usually to the affect that the stuff is not practical.  And I believe that.  I'm not lying.  I won't buy them sparkly shoes because I buy them one pair of shoes and I want a pair that will be functional in a wide variety of situations.  (Minus the dressier pair I bought one of mine for choir because they don't allow sneakers.) 

[texasmama]

I mostly agree.  But I am curious as to what you tell him regarding the "reasons behind it".  I mean why, for example, is there some reason for girl's having the option of sparkly shoes, but not boys?  I can't think of a good reason at all. 

 

That's why I find this stuff rather difficult to deal with.  I have no doubt my kids would have figured that stuff out if they went to school.  But being they have a lot more freedom from this kind of carp, they can get away with more.  I'm glad for that.  But then sometimes I wonder if I'm setting them up for major problems by not explaining this stuff.  If I say anything at all it's usually to the affect that the stuff is not practical.  And I believe that.  I'm not lying.  I won't buy them sparkly shoes because I buy them one pair of shoes and I want a pair that will be functional in a wide variety of situations.  (Minus the dressier pair I bought one of mine for choir because they don't allow sneakers.) 

For my kid, choosing clothing that it typical for his gender is not an issue.  I use "In this society, such and such is the norm", a lot.  Mostly, the issues I focus on are not picking your nose in public and other offensive actions.  There may be societies which do not view picking one's nose as an offensive action, but ours is not one of them.  Why we brush our teeth, wear deodorant, etc. comes up a lot.

 

My kid is not the trailblazer kind who will likely ever be comfortable with breaking through societal rules as an ambassador for others so that is not my focus.  If I had a kid like that, my focus would be different, though I would still give the information.  Everyone needs information.

 

And sometimes there is no good reason, like for why boys don't wear pink, sparkly shoes.  Though I do see plenty of men's clothing that is pink, purple, etc. lately so I think it is a trend.  In that case, I would just use my fall back "In this society, such and such seems to be the current norm.  You are free to do what you want, but that is what I have noticed is typical at this time." 

[SKL]

I mostly agree.  But I am curious as to what you tell him regarding the "reasons behind it".  I mean why, for example, is there some reason for girl's having the option of sparkly shoes, but not boys?  I can't think of a good reason at all. 

 

That's why I find this stuff rather difficult to deal with.  I have no doubt my kids would have figured that stuff out if they went to school.  But being they have a lot more freedom from this kind of carp, they can get away with more.  I'm glad for that.  But then sometimes I wonder if I'm setting them up for major problems by not explaining this stuff.  If I say anything at all it's usually to the affect that the stuff is not practical.  And I believe that.  I'm not lying.  I won't buy them sparkly shoes because I buy them one pair of shoes and I want a pair that will be functional in a wide variety of situations.  (Minus the dressier pair I bought one of mine for choir because they don't allow sneakers.) 

 

I think sparkly shoes for boys probably exist, but they probably don't have Elsa on them.

 

The "why" might be dumb, but the fact is that most kids expect other kids to identify with same gender role models.  And they expect boy clothes to have some masculine vs. feminine elements.  (I think pink is fine for boys BTW as long as it isn't specifically a girly design.)

 

Frankly I buy shoes online because that's the only way to really find what you want.

[SparklyUnicorn]

I think sparkly shoes for boys probably exist, but they probably don't have Elsa on them.

 

The "why" might be dumb, but the fact is that most kids expect other kids to identify with same gender role models.  And they expect boy clothes to have some masculine vs. feminine elements.  (I think pink is fine for boys BTW as long as it isn't specifically a girly design.)

 

Frankly I buy shoes online because that's the only way to really find what you want.

 

But what are the masculine vs. feminine elements?  Unless I get extremely stereotypical, I think it's rather fuzzy and arbitrary.  I have never seen sparkly shoes for boys.