creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 If you were teaching Biology in a public high school where students had a state test next Tues/Wed and your school currently sat at 65.5% proficient or advanced (minimum of 70% is desired by the state), would you be showing a movie (The Island) on your last two days of meeting together before the test? (Today is the last meeting day for this class prior to the test.) FWIW, this is not their regular Bio class, it's an extra enrichment class created for all Bio students to try to give them extra time + cover topics that the regular class runs short on time for. It boggles my mind that they are doing this - and it isn't just because a sub is in. They started the movie yesterday with their regular teacher + another Bio Enrichment class is joining us (also with their regular teacher), not to mention, when I've been in before (still as a sub) we've covered Bio topics. My thoughts would put the movie AFTER the test, not before... but then again, all of my state tests (growing up) were at the end of the year so we worked up until the last day. That's my background. What am I missing? Is there supposed to be some extra bonus psychologically ending a little early and tossing in a couple of "mindless fun" days? Meanwhile I'm wondering whether to voice my thoughts/question - as tactfully as possible - or just to suppress them since "what's done is done." And maybe, quite honestly, two more days of review wouldn't help anyway, but if that's the belief, where is the cutoff? Two days? Two weeks? Why do the class at all? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 ps Not a JAWM thread. If there are other thoughts supporting this, I'd love to hear them. I try to keep open to new things/thoughts/studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I would complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckymama Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I can understand showing a film the actual day before an exam like that, because then it's too late for any real learning to occur. But on a Thursday for an exam Tues/Wed? That's when kids should ask their last questions for topics they don't understand. Or they should play a Jeopardy-like game (or Family Feud or whatever). 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter's Moon Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Perhaps the teacher knew she'd be missing today, so decided to start the movie yesterday so the students could see it in its entirety? She still could have used that last day for review, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City Mouse Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 If the kids don't know the material by now, there is nothing that can be done in the last two days before the test. My guess would be that the movie was planned to help the kids be less stressed about the test. That being said, there are plenty of more productive activities that could be done. I don't think I would bother to complain unless the movie watching was a regular thing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 If the kids don't know the material by now, there is nothing that can be done in the last two days before the test. My guess would be that the movie was planned to help the kids be less stressed about the test. I'm thinking this is the line of thought, but I also know a mere couple of weeks ago the science teachers were talking about how there wasn't enough time to cover all the material needed and they hoped they were at least getting enough in. (I usually eat lunch with the science teachers.) That's a major reason I'm stunned at the plans for today - esp knowing a science sub is in - but even if I weren't, I could come up with other options that could make the difference with a question or two. Alas, I can't do that since we're joining with another class (they did yesterday as well) and they've already started the movie. I'm not sure I'll be able to NOT ask about it at lunch today (after the class), but I'll see where the conversation heads I suppose. These are my friends. I guess this just proves I can keep friends even if we disagree on major things? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GailV Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I realize that the kids probably wouldn't learn much new in the 2 days, as previous posters have said. HOWEVER, continuing with academics keeps them in the groove of using their brains for academics. Dd once commented that students don't do as well on tests such as ACT when the test is at the beginning of the school year/after time off (as opposed to the later test dates in fall or spring). I haven't tried verifying if research exists on that claim, but I can see the sense of it. And, yes, I totally get that 2 days showing a movie is no worse than a 2 day weekend, but as OP said, what's the cutoff on how long you can just do fun things before it starts being a detriment? So, yeah, sounds pretty goofy to show the movie. I have no clue how to broach the subject tactfully, though. I seem to be going through a profoundly tactless stage wherein I just bite my tongue because I can't think of a nice way to say what needs to be said. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My high school teachers would use the two lessons for prep talk as well as revision and Q&A. They would be going over the tricker and/or harder past year papers questions with the classes. Movie would be after the exam in the school auditorium eventhough we would go one corner and play Aladdin cards :) 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KarenC Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I would complain. 2 days of review could mean the difference between passing a failing for a kid. And showing a movie 2 days before an important test shows how little importance the administration places on education. The culture of anti-intellectualism would really annoy me. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneStepAtATime Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Playing games with the topic information, doing some brainstorming sessions, or a whole host of other ideas seems a lot more helpful and productive than watching the Island. I know as a High School student I was able to do better on tests if we did some unusual things with the material the couple of days prior to a test. Things that got me thinking or had me interacting with other students regarding what we were going to be tested on. Not drill and kill, or heavy pressure studying, but interaction. Honestly, I would at least ask. This is stupid. If the teacher was uncertain whether a sub could handle things, maybe you can voice that you ARE able to and that you would be willing to step up to the plate for any future situations like this. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 While most students aren't going to learn something new, students who are shaky can improve with review. They should be reviewing until the test and watch the movie the days after. The last couple days is a good time to quiz bowl activities or some other fun, but academic thing. When the school doesn't meet the required pass rate again and faces some sort of consequences from the state, the local news might be very interested in how time was allocated in the classroom. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowbeltmom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Are the kids impacted at all if they fail the test, or is the school the only entity that is impacted by the test results? If the kids are negatively impacted by failing the test, i.e. the failed result is disclosed on the high school transcript, the student is prevented from graduating, etc., I think the kids are being shortchanged by not using the last two class days reviewing for the exam. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Ok, I asked (at the beginning of the movie). They are using the whole week (3 days) for the movie, not just two, and they are doing it now because they just finished going over the Ecology/Evolution section, so it seemed like a good spot to toss the movie in. They won't have 3 days together (in a row) after the testing and it would be too much to break the movie up into two weeks. :glare: And it's three classes in here, not just two. The head of the science dept is leading one of the classes. Honestly, I would at least ask. This is stupid. If the teacher was uncertain whether a sub could handle things, maybe you can voice that you ARE able to and that you would be willing to step up to the plate for any future situations like this. The teacher I'm in for is one of my really good friends. She knows I'm capable. This is all just part of their regular plans. When the school doesn't meet the required pass rate again and faces some sort of consequences from the state, the local news might be very interested in how time was allocated in the classroom. There's no way I can do this. I work here and have many friends. I work in bits and pieces to try to change things for the better, but there's no way I'd go head on like this and create enemies. I suppose I use the Hive to try to make sure "I'm" not the weird one with my thoughts at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Are the kids impacted at all if they fail the test, or is the school the only entity that is impacted by the test results? If the kids are negatively impacted by failing the test, i.e. the failed result is disclosed on the high school transcript, the student is prevented from graduating, etc., I think the kids are being shortchanged by not using the last two class days reviewing for the exam. Students can't graduate if they don't pass the test, but they can retest at a later date. Test results are on the transcripts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree Frog Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Essentially what they're telling the students is that watching the movie 3 days in a row is more important than the test. I guess culture is more important than academics? I think someone didn't think this through! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Essentially what they're telling the students is that watching the movie 3 days in a row is more important than the test. I guess culture is more important than academics? I think someone didn't think this through! That's the gist I've gotten, yes. I wonder if AP teachers (we don't offer AP) end their class and show movies immediately prior to the test? The state test isn't as difficult as an AP test, that's for sure, but still... our pass rate on the test isn't the greatest IMO and students need this to graduate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Is there some assignment related to the movie? I remember having to write a research paper for high school biology, so I wouldn't be shocked if they were going to write an essay or do a power point about the movie as a writing across the curriculum activity. If that's the case, the timing is unfortunate but I understand their decision. Maybe they handed out study guides the kids are supposed to do at home to prep for the test? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 That's the gist I've gotten, yes. I wonder if AP teachers (we don't offer AP) end their class and show movies immediately prior to the test? The state test isn't as difficult as an AP test, that's for sure, but still... our pass rate on the test isn't the greatest IMO and students need this to graduate. My dd goes to public high school. All of her IB and AP classes have worked up until the exams. BTW, I know you aren't in a position to make the situation public. The fact that the whole dept. is on board with this approach, even though the school hasn't achieved required pass rates is mind boggling to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Tick Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Psshht. Even as a student I didn't like spending class time on movies. I think it is idiotic, but done, and I would valiantly try to limit my comments on the whole thing. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think you should say something. This affects 2 (3?) whole classes of students, correct? As a parent, I'd be pretty upset with this type of a situation, and would want my child's teacher(s) to give my child as much teaching/help as possible up to the time of the test. There may not be many parents who feel this way, but there may be some. I would at least try to tactfully ask why this decision was made by the department -- and perhaps suggest that things be done differently next year. (Sounds like it may be too late to change anything this year). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I'll play devil's advocate for the movie (a little). The Island is a powerful story to make students consider the ethical ramifications of scientific discoveries. Science CAN do many thing and the line of what is possible marches forward. There are questions of what things SHOULD be done with that knowledge. The movie slips in these issues in an easy to swallow way. So I do approve of the movie choice. I am less certain about the timing. It would seem like a great post test activity. The movie is definitely a nice to have but non essential activity. And I don't see the big deal with doing a showing that is more broken up. We live in an episodic society and I bet a 5 min back up would catch everyone right up. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Is there some assignment related to the movie? No, absolutely nothing. My dd goes to public high school. All of her IB and AP classes have worked up until the exams. BTW, I know you aren't in a position to make the situation public. The fact that the whole dept. is on board with this approach, even though the school hasn't achieved required pass rates is mind boggling to me. It's mind boggling to me too - even though I've worked here for years and potentially should have seen it coming. This school is just so different from the one I went to in my youth. We just finished lunch and I did bring it up again - right after one of the Bio teachers mentioned how big of a push she was doing - covering a Chapter per DAY to try to get through all the material before the test comes. The answer I was given? Doing too much in a day this close to the test is just overload to the students. Maybe this is true, but maybe slowing down their actual class just a little bit and putting some of that material into these hour time periods would be more effective... "Eh, at this point what they're going to get, they're going to get." I'll play devil's advocate for the movie (a little). The Island is a powerful story to make students consider the ethical ramifications of scientific discoveries. Science CAN do many thing and the line of what is possible marches forward. There are questions of what things SHOULD be done with that knowledge. The movie slips in these issues in an easy to swallow way. So I do approve of the movie choice. I am less certain about the timing. It would seem like a great post test activity. The movie is definitely a nice to have but non essential activity. And I don't see the big deal with doing a showing that is more broken up. We live in an episodic society and I bet a 5 min back up would catch everyone right up. I agree with you regarding the movie choice. I just think it would have been better to show it after the test - consider it a reward at that point. Also, I was updated that there is a "project" students who fail the test (twice) can do to show they have sufficient Bio knowledge. No one knows much about those yet, nor who will grade them. There's talk that the Bio teachers, themselves, may be the ones grading them. Privately I sort of think if that happens it's akin to asking the fox to guard the chickens... That's NOT a done deal yet. It's all conjecture (except knowing there is supposed to be a bypass). These are relatively new tests for our state and the years going through now are the first to need them to graduate. If there weren't a bypass, and current testing rates applied, our current graduation rate would drop from 91% to a max of 65% (and that assumes all students who can't pass Alg or English also can't pass Bio - reasonably likely for the most part). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Students can't graduate if they don't pass the test, but they can retest at a later date. Test results are on the transcripts. I am dumbfounded. Gob-smacked, struck, whatever. Finding three consecutive days to show a movie was more critical than productive review for a state-mandated test that affects graduation? Especially when the school's passing rate is meh? I'm not sure I can read any further and it would be best if I bit my tongue and not commented on the colossal stupidity of the decision. Creekland, you have my sympathy and I am so sorry you are in a place where you don't feel like you can say anything. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I am dumbfounded. Gob-smacked, struck, whatever. Finding three consecutive days to show a movie was more critical than productive review for a state-mandated test that affects graduation? Especially when the school's passing rate is meh? I'm not sure I can read any further and it would be best if I bit my tongue and not commented on the colossal stupidity of the decision. Creekland, you have my sympathy and I am so sorry you are in a place where you don't feel like you can say anything. There are times when I wonder if I fit in here. Most aim toward mediocrity. The other day I was talking with a math teacher (one of our Calc teachers no less) and he told me he tells all kids that they are aiming toward a 1500 (all three sections) on the SAT. If they do that, they're fine. 1500 is essentially our school's average. It's also close to the national average. Why tell ALL kids that's their goal? One junior I was speaking with last Friday told me she wants to go to Elon. I looked up Elon's average SAT for her. It's 1839. I asked her what her PSAT scores were. They were all 40s and low 50s. She was told she didn't need to be in our math SAT Prep because she had scored over 50. What wonderful advice considering her goal... If it is an enrichment class, they are thinking that it is not a remedial class. Students that need more tutoring would be in academic intervention or attending the inschool tutoring. Students who find basic easy would be in an honors section. My district is ncga, so neither enrichment nor honors exist; if they did parents of struggling students would be screaming about their money being wasted on kids who know enough to pass already. Parents that want more than basic are told to go to private or homeschool here.in the past, enrichment was a place to park kids, while the teachers remediated. They might learn some fluff, but nothing serious. Now, the high school offers optional Regents Review and the teachers are up front that it will not cover anything but core basic....so, if you want a top score, get a prep book and study that. Here ALL Bio students are put into an enrichment class because there just isn't enough time to cover all the material in Bio in one year with Block Scheduling and everything else that goes on. They are, however, put in classes by levels and knowing these kids, they are those more likely to pass than other lower level classes. I suspect that played a role in their decision, but... covering more before the test could easily lead to a question or two more correct (esp from new material crammed in) and for some students that could be the difference between proficient and advanced. Advanced will look far better on their transcripts. When my youngest son took the Bio Keystone only 9% in the state got Advanced (his was a trial year) and I suspect (know) it wasn't even that high within our school. My guy was one of them, though I credit it due to his extensive love and independent study of all things biological - not 100% his class here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle_NC Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 There was an article recently that said that there is a strong link between parents reading bedtime stories to their children and how their children did educationally. It was even more beneficial than sending them to an elite private school. So then a professor of some sort said that people who read to their kids were “unfairly disadvantaging other people’s children†(the ones who weren't being read to). This biology test situation reminded me of this article because the kids who study at home or do *anything* extra to prep for the test will most likely do better. And its the reason people complain about homeschoolers having an advantage, kids with involved parents having an advantage, etc., etc. If you rely 100% on what the school is doing then you'll most likely be at the 65.5% level. It that's where you want to be - great! (We all don't need to be great at everything). But if you have goals and aspirations beyond what they are providing then it's going to take some extra work outside of school. So I guess this is my long way of saying I don't think they should be watching a movie right before the test. Bad timing on their part and some of those kids are going to be penalized because of it. Also the reason that parents need to stay involved. My daughter was in public school all through elementary and it was a lot of work! (for me) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amsunshine Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My daughter was in public school all through elementary and it was a lot of work! (for me) LOL! How true. This was one of the reasons I pulled dds in kinder/1st. If it was going to be so much work on my part, might as well just bring 'em home. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
school17777 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I wonder if AP teachers (we don't offer AP) end their class and show movies immediately prior to the test? No. The AP teacher does provide breakfast though, the morning of the test. The day or two after the test are light days, then they go on with new material. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harriet Vane Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I am dumbfounded. Gob-smacked, struck, whatever. Finding three consecutive days to show a movie was more critical than productive review for a state-mandated test that affects graduation? Especially when the school's passing rate is meh? I'm not sure I can read any further and it would be best if I bit my tongue and not commented on the colossal stupidity of the decision. Creekland, you have my sympathy and I am so sorry you are in a place where you don't feel like you can say anything. :iagree: This would be why the school is struggling so much. They do not approach academics with the necessary focus. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 No. The AP teacher does provide breakfast though, the morning of the test. The day or two after the test are light days, then they go on with new material. As far as I can tell, ds's AP Biology teacher has used every moment available to deliver content. The kids remained in their seats during an emergency drill and he talked over the emergency instructions because they were in the middle of a dissection. I was sad to hear that the district is waiting for him to retire because he is one of their most expensive teachers. Whatever they pay him, he's worth it. There is too much material to cover and too little time to mess with a movie until after the AP exam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grantmom Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I completely disagree with the idea of "if they don't have it now they aren't going to get it". Would you recommend to a college student that she not attend the last three days of class before an exam, and instead watch movies and not study because if she hadn't learned it during the semester, she wasn't about to learn it now? I think they are shortchanging the kids. It would certainly be more beneficial to at least review, play Jeopardy as someone else mentioned, practice the types of questions on the test, etc. That could only help. My son once attended a week long summer enrichment camp that only met for three hours a day. They took a half an hour to go eat a snack in the middle of the three-hour period, they finished early every day because it never took them that long to clean up, and they watched a movie split between two days, for an hour on each of those days. (And every child had already seen the movie.) They also spent a lot of time waiting in line for their turn for various things. So, for a total of potentially 15 hours of instruction that parents are paying for and children are spending their time on, I have no idea how much time they actually spent on topic. I really am not a strict nose-to-the-grindstone kind of person. However, this kind of stuff is why I think that the school day is not always an efficient use of time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dicentra Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I wonder if AP teachers (we don't offer AP) end their class and show movies immediately prior to the test? When I taught AP Chem, no. Nada. No way. :D I couldn't have afforded to give up that kind of time. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 Advanced may look better on their transcripts, but the school is heading off attracting a disparate impact lawsuit. They wont be offered the necessary material on the school's dime. I don't think that's an issue at all here. They like having kids score Advanced and they like the kids who excel in our school. They just don't see that more kids could do it if given better opportunities. They think there are very few kids who are "that smart." That's not really true IME. The bell curve of academic talent could be pretty much the same here as it was in the high school I went to (very similar demographics), but the academic opportunities and expectations were totally different. This would be why the school is struggling so much. They do not approach academics with the necessary focus. My thoughts exactly. They don't even seem to know HOW to do this which frustrates me. We're not a lower end school. We're pretty much smack dab on average by all stats. As far as I can tell, ds's AP Biology teacher has used every moment available to deliver content. The kids remained in their seats during an emergency drill and he talked over the emergency instructions because they were in the middle of a dissection. I was sad to hear that the district is waiting for him to retire because he is one of their most expensive teachers. Whatever they pay him, he's worth it. There is too much material to cover and too little time to mess with a movie until after the AP exam. We would get in a load of trouble if we skipped any emergency drill for any reason. I'm surprised that's not true everywhere. Bio is a content heavy subject. I definitely agree that there's no real "down" time with it. We've moved some of the material into 9th grade science and added these enrichment classes to gain more time (both of which were good decisions), but there's still not enough time to squander it away IMO, esp if the regular class teachers are trying to cram in a chapter per day at this point. That's a lot of material for the average 10th grader to try to grasp adequately. Review would have made far more sense. But what do I know. I found the Hive after I pulled my guys to homeschool and was looking for more like-minded educators. I'm glad y'all are around to help me feel like I'm still sane even if not in the majority opinion where I work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkT Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 My thoughts would put the movie AFTER the test, not before... but then again, all of my state tests (growing up) were at the end of the year so we worked up until the last day. That's my background. What am I missing? Is there supposed to be some extra bonus psychologically ending a little early and tossing in a couple of "mindless fun" days? You struck a sore spot with me on this one. My son's AZ Algebra 2 EOC exam was 5 weeks before the end of the year :cursing: I'm from New York they still give the final exam as the last thing you do in a particular course (for AP classes they may have both the AP test and another final weeks later). What do other states do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 You struck a sore spot with me on this one. My son's AZ Algebra 2 EOC exam was 5 weeks before the end of the year :cursing: I'm from New York they still give the final exam as the last thing you do in a particular course (for AP classes they may have both the AP test and another final weeks later). What do other states do? I'm in PA. Our testing window is from next week until near the end of the month, but ours (high school) will all be complete by May 20th. School officially ends June 2nd. Middle school has already completed theirs. I'm from NY just like you. I prefer tests at the END of courses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bettyandbob Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I prefer tests at the END of courses. Here's the stupid thing in VA: the state schedules the window for state mandated testing in May. No public school is permitted to start before Labor Day, so every school district is in session until mid June. Testing in some courses started this week. My district is in session until June 19. Seniors do not have end of course exams unless they failed them in previous years. There are multiple retake periods for seniors, separated from the May test dates. So, the May testing is not required to get turn around on exams before graduation. Additionally, AP testing is nationally set. So, kids in AP classes here have less time in class than many other states that start school earlier than Labor Day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiguirre Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 Here's the stupid thing in VA: the state schedules the window for state mandated testing in May. No public school is permitted to start before Labor Day, so every school district is in session until mid June. Testing in some courses started this week. My district is in session until June 19. Seniors do not have end of course exams unless they failed them in previous years. There are multiple retake periods for seniors, separated from the May test dates. So, the May testing is not required to get turn around on exams before graduation. I think they do that for summer school assignment. They need the results by the end of the regular school year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raptor_dad Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I wonder if AP teachers (we don't offer AP) end their class and show movies immediately prior to the test? When I was taking AP courses in the '80s, several of the serious teachers at my poor high school offered 3 or 4 2hr review sessions both after school and in the evening at their houses. Other teachers mostly viewed test prep as an optional task for motivated kids. Either way content was taught right up to the tests. After the tests, classes generally did very light enrichment topics or harder but fun and ungraded material... so yes, movie time after the test not before. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swimmermom3 Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I don't think that's an issue at all here. They like having kids score Advanced and they like the kids who excel in our school. They just don't see that more kids could do it if given better opportunities. They think there are very few kids who are "that smart." That's not really true IME. The bell curve of academic talent could be pretty much the same here as it was in the high school I went to (very similar demographics), but the academic opportunities and expectations were totally different. My thoughts exactly. They don't even seem to know HOW to do this which frustrates me. We're not a lower end school. We're pretty much smack dab on average by all stats. We would get in a load of trouble if we skipped any emergency drill for any reason. I'm surprised that's not true everywhere. Bio is a content heavy subject. I definitely agree that there's no real "down" time with it. We've moved some of the material into 9th grade science and added these enrichment classes to gain more time (both of which were good decisions), but there's still not enough time to squander it away IMO, esp if the regular class teachers are trying to cram in a chapter per day at this point. That's a lot of material for the average 10th grader to try to grasp adequately. Review would have made far more sense. But what do I know. I found the Hive after I pulled my guys to homeschool and was looking for more like-minded educators. I'm glad y'all are around to help me feel like I'm still sane even if not in the majority opinion where I work. He did. I suspect it was worth it to him to not have to leave a dissection lab unfinished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Here's the stupid thing in VA: the state schedules the window for state mandated testing in May. No public school is permitted to start before Labor Day, so every school district is in session until mid June. Testing in some courses started this week. My district is in session until June 19. Seniors do not have end of course exams unless they failed them in previous years. There are multiple retake periods for seniors, separated from the May test dates. So, the May testing is not required to get turn around on exams before graduation. Additionally, AP testing is nationally set. So, kids in AP classes here have less time in class than many other states that start school earlier than Labor Day. We've shifted our whole school year to try to allow more time for testing. We used to start the week before Labor Day and end around the 7th/8th of June. This year we moved that up and started around Aug 23rd (or so - I'm too lazy to check to see what our schedule was) and we'll get out June 2nd. Next year we're starting Aug 19th and I assume we'll end in May. It's getting better in that way I suppose. We have no state law saying when we can start/end. That would definitely make it rough! When I was in NY (growing up), our schools started after Labor Day and ended the third week in June. AP tests were still in May and most of us still did well on them. We had really good teachers and we were expected to work at home. All state tests were at the very end after our class days ended. We returned our books at the same time we came to school for the tests (only had to show up when we were testing). Here the last day or two of classes are usually parties or movies. We never had those where I grew up. If there was a movie shown in class, it was directly related to what we were learning. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plansrme Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 My observation is not directly applicable, but I have been noticing a lot of nothing going on right now in schools all around me (including, I must admit, my basement, but that is because we have pretty much covered our material for the year). My oldest doesn't count, as she is finished with her DE courses and has two APs next week, but my HS freshman at a small private school seems to be doing nothing but playing in all but two of her seven classes. They have another full week of class and then a week of exams, of which she only has to take one, last time I checked. Only math (her favorite) and physics (her least favorite) are still rocking along with new material and assignments. My friends' kids are reporting similar experiences in their elementary, middle and high schools. We are in Georgia, where school starts ridiculously early (August 4th'ish), and I would much, much rather they give us back those two weeks in August but actually teach through the full school year. Especially if they have a test coming up! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluegoat Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think it's totally crazy. I would not expect students to be getting new material on those days, but I would expect them to be working with what they had learned. I also don't think that is just about doing well on one particular test. Kids need to be taught how to study for tests effectively, they don't somehow just know that. So this isn't just about not giving them every advantage for a test, it is a matter of not teaching an important skill. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 My faith in some of our students was restored this morning. I had one of our 9th grade Geometry classes - a rare class where the higher ability math students are grouped together since we keep 9th graders together. They were on task and asked intelligent questions (doing volume and area scaling). It was a nice change of pace. Compare that to my next Geometry class filled with 10th - 12th graders... several juniors/seniors who NEED the credit to graduate, but who wanted to put forth NO effort to even understand the basics that volume cubes the scale factor (if it's even) and area squares it (and why this happens). I felt sorry for the handful of 10th graders in that class who were truly trying to understand the material vs just wanting steps to get the correct answers. I can get kids to be quiet when necessary. I can get them to work on problems. I can't open their minds when they aren't at least a little cooperative. Keeping the students in separate classes would sure help those who WANT to be there. Next year the 9th grade Geometry students will be in Alg 2 classes with kids from my 2nd class and others like it (not the seniors if they graduate, but the others). IMO it would not be difficult at all to have a Level 3 (top level) in our math classes throughout high school. The powers that be refuse to do so. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 Well, well, well... just heard through the grapevine that our new superintendent is amazed that we don't have different levels for math - and plans to change that. It won't start until next year's 9th graders, but to even hear it's potentially (not officially yet) in the pipeline sounds like a terrific plus. I know this new guy only by sight, but I'm starting to like him already. Meanwhile, I shouldn't have any big "school" vents for a bit. Next week I'm starting off in Anatomy I & II... all top level kids - and I had my own Anatomy lesson yesterday as this is the one (science) class at our school that I really can't teach on my own as it's a far cry from Physics, Chem, & Math, however, I'm told no other sub can teach it either and at least I'm ok with dissections (brain and eye on our agenda). After that I'm assisting with state testing. After that, my school year is finished as my own kids will be home and I'll be enjoying time with them (unless I add an odd day here or there if they have other plans for that day). Thanks for thoughts and for helping me to realize there's still a group I identify with somewhere out there! 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idnib Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think it's nuts that they're taking all those days before the test to watch a movie. I do agree with the "if they don't know it by now, they're not going to learn it" -- but my cutoff is dinnertime the evening before the exam, not 3 days before! I think it's better for them to have a relaxed dinner and evening, and go to bed early, not stay up late studying. But yeah, until then, they should be working their behinds off, including the teachers. The school is sending a bad message. Imagine a college student who had an exam on Thursday and was not prepared on Monday. Oh, and the exam had an impact on their graduation. Would anyone seriously suggested he or she not do anything in those intervening days to improve the trajectory as much as possible? Yikes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creekland Posted May 8, 2015 Author Share Posted May 8, 2015 I think it's nuts that they're taking all those days before the test to watch a movie. I do agree with the "if they don't know it by now, they're not going to learn it" -- but my cutoff is dinnertime the evening before the exam, not 3 days before! I think it's better for them to have a relaxed dinner and evening, and go to bed early, not stay up late studying. But yeah, until then, they should be working their behinds off, including the teachers. The school is sending a bad message. Imagine a college student who had an exam on Thursday and was not prepared on Monday. Oh, and the exam had an impact on their graduation. Would anyone seriously suggested he or she not do anything in those intervening days to improve the trajectory as much as possible? Yikes. I am hoping our new superintendent can change these things for the better too. He has a really big job ahead of him trying to make changes. There are many who are resistant to change. It wasn't long ago that we were told (by a middle school principal) that "Public school isn't here to teach the above average student. They'll do fine no matter where they go or what they do. Public school is here to teach the average student and around here the average student works for ___, joins the military, or goes to community college. Then the state requires that we do all we can to help the below average student, so we do what we need to for them. Don't worry about the above average students." Hubby and I left that meeting flabbergasted at what we had just heard. It's that mindset that still needs changing IMO. Not long after that middle school conference we pulled our guys out to homeschool, but seriously, I care about other people's above average kids too and more can BE above average if they have the opportunity to get the foundation. It's a fallacy to believe that above average students will be fine "just because." They might not fail, but they can become so much more with appropriate prep. He has to move a sleeping giant in trying to change that attitude, but I wish him success. I'd love to see our school move above average and that can happen if we let our top kids move up to where they should be. We also won't be failing them at that point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian (a lady) Posted May 8, 2015 Share Posted May 8, 2015 I am hoping our new superintendent can change these things for the better too. He has a really big job ahead of him trying to make changes. There are many who are resistant to change. It wasn't long ago that we were told (by a middle school principal) that "Public school isn't here to teach the above average student. They'll do fine no matter where they go or what they do. Public school is here to teach the average student and around here the average student works for ___, joins the military, or goes to community college. Then the state requires that we do all we can to help the below average student, so we do what we need to for them. Don't worry about the above average students." Hubby and I left that meeting flabbergasted at what we had just heard. It's that mindset that still needs changing IMO. Not long after that middle school conference we pulled our guys out to homeschool, but seriously, I care about other people's above average kids too and more can BE above average if they have the opportunity to get the foundation. It's a fallacy to believe that above average students will be fine "just because." They might not fail, but they can become so much more with appropriate prep. He has to move a sleeping giant in trying to change that attitude, but I wish him success. I'd love to see our school move above average and that can happen if we let our top kids move up to where they should be. We also won't be failing them at that point. Not to mention the fact that the military is increasingly selective in their enlistment requirements. Unrated sailor might still be an option with several years working painting and chipping paint. But engineering department is pretty high tech with gas turbine engines and big diesels not coal fired boilers needing brawny stokers. The days of picking jail or the military are pretty much gone too. If someone wants to join and be an electronics tech or sonar operator or intelligence specialist they need to have some strong academic skills. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 I'm posting before I've read the majority of the replies. I totally disagree with showing a movie the last two days of instruction. IMO, it is not too late for learning, real learning, review, cramming, an a-ha moment...what have you. One question can be the difference between passing and failing! Why in the world would teachers pass up that opportunity, the chance to push through for two more class sessions that could make a major difference in students' exam results? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yvonne Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 If the teachers don't take the exam seriously enough to be preparing the students for it the week before, why should the students take it seriously. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unsinkable Posted May 9, 2015 Share Posted May 9, 2015 Well, now I got to the end and see it's been hashed out. Okey-dokey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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