Name Brand vs Non Name Brand

[purpleroses]

DD is making a final decision about where she wants to attend college in the fall. She weeded  out most of the colleges on her list, but is still unsure if she's making the right choice. She got accepted into some name brand schools. The specific school  she's looking at is a very selective school. DD told me that if she decides to attend this school over others, she's only going because of its name and reputation. Not because she herself wants to go. She said it's important to love the school but it's just as important for the school to have resources and connections so she can get hired. I think she does have a point, but I did tell her name brand isn't everything. Why spend four years of your life being miserable just because of it's name.  DD then pointed out how kids from name brand schools have an advantage over kids from non name brand schools. Especially when it comes to employment and looking over résumés. I don' t think this is true but again she does have a point. But is it ever a good idea to attend a college just because of it's name? I told DD I want her to be happy wherever she goes, I don't want her to be unhappy for four years.

[Hoggirl]

Normally my advice to parents while children are deliberating is biting your tongue, chocolate, and booze. However, if "brand" is truly the ONLY reason she would choose one school over another, I think you need to speak up. I believe (others may not) that brand could be A factor, but I don't think it should be THE factor. Cost, atmosphere, meeting academic needs via availability and strength of major, size, accessibility to certain activities, weather, might all be factors to consider. I'm sure there are many others! Different factors can have varying degrees of importance depending on the person. She certainly shouldn't go there if she thinks she is going to be unhappy!

[creekland]

Chances are that she's going to like wherever she goes.  Most students do and with as many choices as you said she has, her saying she's only picking "that one" due to brand name would be suspect in my eyes.  She had several brand names to choose from.

 

Is cost an issue?  If so, that would eliminate many from the list.  There's no need to go into high debt.

 

Otherwise, if you want more specific info, we would have to know desired major/career and Brand A vs Brand B.  Sometimes there is a difference.  Other times there isn't - or Brand B might even be better.  There is no "one answer fits all" for this question.

[Teachin'Mine]

Agreeing with Cynthia, and she should visit her top picks as well if she hasn't already.  Going to a college which is a poor fit isn't wise no matter what it's reputation.

 

Edited:  Agreeing with Creekland too. 

 

Having over 30 acceptances should enable her to eliminate the schools which are unaffordable, a poor fit, and any other criteria she chooses.  She'll still end up with enough to visit and make a choice.

[bettyandbob]

Brand alone will not result in a job or even connections to a job. The student has to be good at accessing the resources the schools has and perform well at the school. If she doesn't actually like the school will she be able to do those things.

 

 

I know a person who is a vice president of google, whose degree is from a school that required a pulse to be admitted.

 

I know a person who went to a very small, not great academic reputation school that is doing well in her field.

 

The results (degree, opportunities, career) are dependent on what the student puts in to find and create resources that best suit her needs and goals. Some students are able to do that anywhere.

 

I also agree with the pp who says to figure out the finances. Don't blow your budget for brand name that has nothing to offer, but the brand name.

[prairiewindmomma]

I disagree slightly-- in some communities and in some professions, brand is everything. It is certainly true here in my part of the Midwest.

[Teachin'Mine]

I disagree slightly-- in some communities and in some professions, brand is everything. It is certainly true here in my part of the Midwest.

 

I agree with you that sometimes the schools's reputation does matter in some professions, but this particular student has a lot of "good name brand" colleges to choose from, so there's no need to go to one which is a poor fit.  No college will be perfect, but poor fits can usually be avoided when there's over 30 to choose from.

[Reefgazer]

I think any advantages a person has when they attend a name brand school are more applicable to graduate degrees rather than undergraduate degrees.  At the graduate level, I think name brands have some real advantages; at the undergraduate level, not so much.  Also, it's not just 4 years of her life she's spending at a school she feels no connection to - the friendships, attitudes, and connections she makes will often last a lifetime, making them super-important to her entire life (at least that has been my experience).

[shawthorne44]

We were discussing this at a work lunch yesterday.  We are trying to hire someone for our department and it has been hard.  Which college has zero impact on the hiring process.  Of course, we aren't going to university job fairs either.  I know many big employers only recruit from certain universities.  So it seems that the biggest impact on the name-brand school will be in the first job.  

Although it seems that you could get the same advantage by going to school which is local to where you want to live.  Because many employers will look at the nearby university.  

[Pen]

I noticed on your acceptance list that she had been accepted to a very large number of schools, some very "name brand" (including my own alma mater that I have had questions about having chosen over an at least somewhat less "name brand" option) and some not. 

 

I also think that posting the ones she is actually choosing between and what she is thinking to do after college would help.

[creekland]

There are very few jobs where "a" name brand matters - one specific college.  There can be quite a few where employers have favorites they choose from and often those are local (meaning within a state or two).

 

It really helps to see where recent grads have gone or, if one knows (more or less) what job they want, to check with employers (or grad schools) to see where their current employees/students have come from.  Many employers have at least some schools they don't care for as much.  This is why it's difficult to say Brand A is better than Brand B without knowing the major/field or schools.  Give local (Environmental/Civil) engineers a choice between a Harvard grad or a Penn St grad and they will choose the Penn St grad to interview every single time.  Harvard isn't that well known for the engineering done around here (they don't even have Civil as an option), plus it's really doubtful they will already know local PA standards they'll have to work with on their job.  Since our local standards tend to meet Chesapeake Bay standards, graduates from colleges in MD and VA would also get looked at first.

[Pen]

There are very few jobs where "a" name brand matters - one specific college.  There can be quite a few where employers have favorites they choose from and often those are local (meaning within a state or two).

 

It really helps to see where recent grads have gone or, if one knows (more or less) what job they want, to check with employers (or grad schools) to see where their current employees/students have come from.  Many employers have at least some schools they don't care for as much.  This is why it's difficult to say Brand A is better than Brand B without knowing the major/field or schools.  Give local (Environmental/Civil) engineers a choice between a Harvard grad or a Penn St grad and they will choose the Penn St grad to interview every single time.  Harvard isn't that well known for the engineering done around here (they don't even have Civil as an option), plus it's really doubtful they will already know local PA standards they'll have to work with on their job.  Since our local standards tend to meet Chesapeake Bay standards, graduates from colleges in MD and VA would also get looked at first.

 

 

I'm guessing the choice may be akin to a school like Harvard versus somewhere most of us have never even heard of.  Really "brand name" versus really "non name brand."

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm guessing the choice may be akin to a school like Harvard versus somewhere most of us have never even heard of.  Really "brand name" versus really "non name brand."

 

I think it would be helpful to have the list on this thread.  Purpleroses maybe you could edit out any schools she's no longer considering so we have a better idea of which ones are still in the running.

 

USC (full tuition)

Wheaton(20k scholarship)

USCD

Scripps

Biola(trustee scholarship 12k)

Azusa

Princeton(we're shocked too)

Claremont McKenna(10k scholarship)

FSU (9k per year)

Barrett,the Honors College

University of Arizona (12k per year)

University of Tampa

UCF

FL keys CC

Texas Christian

San Diego CC

Columbia(wait listed)

University of Rochester

LIU Brooklyn

College of Mt Saint Vincent

Hofstra(20k scholarship)

Notre Dame of Maryland University

San Diego Christian

Agnes Scott(22k scholarship)

Stonybrook

Mills

Westmont

Syracuse

Brown(surprised by this as well)

Point Loma

USF(4k)

University of Florida

Loyola Maryland

Loyola Chicago (13,500 scholarship)

Santa Clara(scholarship pending)

Simmons(full tuition)

George Fox (10k scholarship)

Arizona Christian

Dallas Baptist

New College of FL(15k scholarship)

Pace

Barry

 

Phew!! I know dd applied to a lot of colleges but she wanted to keep her options open. We expected a lot of rejection letters but surprising it was sorta half and half.

* all scholarships are per year

 

 

It's actually over 40 as only one is a waitlist.  Would also help to know which ones provided an affordable scholarship/financial aid package.  I can't even begin to imagine having to compare all of these, but I'm sure you've got some sort of system, and I'm sure that many fell from the list as more acceptances came in too.

 

What is her intended major or is she undecided?

 

Is California or Florida in-state for you?  I noticed she applied to community colleges and state schools in both.

 

Out of the above, excluding Columbia, which is her first choice?   Which is the one that she says wouldn't be a good fit?

[Lawyer&Mom]

Wow, that's quite a range of schools. And several "name brands."

 

I went to Berkeley. It was both awesome and awful, just as you would expect a state flagship to be. But the name has certainly opened doors for me over the years.

 

I guess I would say that you don't have to go to Princeton just because you got in. But if you get into Princeton, you don't go to Mills either. Is there something in the middle that speaks to her?

[Pen]

It also might help to spell out some of the acronyms. Is USC here University of Southern California?  or South Carolina?

 

Other factors could include where you are located and whether there are friends family near schools not near you.

 

How important are the scholarships for your family?

 

What part of country does she want to live in afterwards?

 

Does she want to be in a city?

 

 

And yes, what does she plan to major in go into as a career,  plus back up idea, or is she completely undecided?

 

 

 

 

[MrSmith]

The letters 'USC' is a registered trademark owned by the University of Southern California.

 

File that under 'pointless but true' :p

[Mama Geek]

The letters 'USC' is a registered trademark owned by the University of Southern California.

 

File that under 'pointless but true' :p

 

Maybe so, but if you say USC in the southeast everyone thinks University of South Carolina. :tongue_smilie: 

 

[blackjackoaktree]

Can she cut down the list based on some of the gen ed requirements? Some of those listed will have religous gen ed requirements and some do not. There might be other gen eds requied at some schools that wouldn't be at others.

[Sneezyone]

Only chiming in to add that the power of the SoCal alma network definitely provides advantages, particularly within California, and if you can leave there debt-free it's a huge bonus when looking for that first job. Profs were instrumental in helping me make connections w/in gov't. The Film and TV dept. is also a powerhouse. It depends on the major but the value is there. Plus, the student body is incredibly diverse and welcoming. :)

[TechWife]

Interesting article: Google doesn't care where you went to college.

 

[purpleroses]

USC is University of Southern California

 

This is dds current list

Biola

Azusa

Princeton

Wheaton

Claremont McKenna

Barrett,the Honors College

Texas Christian

Florida Keys CC

Agnes Scott

Westmont

Point Loma

Santa Clara

Simmons

City College

 

She's considering Princeton, but only because it's Princeton. She would like to go out of state specifically California. But then she's afraid to go so far away, so she's considering City or Princeton. Then there's other colleges like Simmons and Wheaton that she likes. Biola and Asuza are very conservative. So she might be weeding these two colleges out, but she does like the area. Texas Christian she's 50/50 on. She said Texas as issues(no offense to Texans)

DD wants to study business and wants to work for Goldman & Sachs or JP Morgan chase. She read online that these companies only hire people from well known schools. My friend who works in business said it's not true. These companies do hire people from various colleges. But it's still competitive no matter what college you graduate from. Even people from Harvard who wants a job at Goldman and Sachs might not get one. I've told dd this, but she till thinks Princeton would look good on her resume.

[Pen]

If she wants to go to California and then into investment banking (why, pray tell--okay, never mind, probably $$$), Claremont McKenna could be a good choice.

 

I do consider it to be a well-known and well regarded school.  USC is another possibility, but she may like a smaller school in a less fraught part of town if she is not familiar with California.

 

Princeton does tend to be a feeder school into that sort of job, but Princeton is also very competitive and if you are surprised that she got in it may be hard for her to get the grades that Goldman Sachs etc. are looking for.  So she could end up somewhere she isn't happy about going and not end up with it opening the doors she thinks it will open.

 

At the time I was there, the top of Fine tower was closed due to suicide attempt risk issues by unhappy, stressed students.  I think they have tried to improve things since then, but my impression is that students have the reputation of being much much happier at Claremont McKenna.  And it too is thought of as strong in economics and finance education.

[Junie]

I agree w/ a previous poster that graduating debt free would be a huge bonus for most.  

 

However, if you can afford a prestigious school such as Princeton, I think it would be worthwhile to go there, at least for the first year.  If she truly hates it, her credits should transfer to the school of her choice.

 

I don't know anything about business degrees, but in some fields, such as engineering, the name on the diploma means a great deal.

 

 

[Hoggirl]

If she wants to do IB, attending a "target" school will help. Attending a target school does not guarantee getting a job in IB. It's highly competitive regardless. But odds are better coming out of a target school. Princeton or CMC would meet that criterion from those on her list.

 

Check out the website wallstreetoasis

[chiguirre]

DD wants to study business and wants to work for Goldman & Sachs or JP Morgan chase. She read online that these companies only hire people from well known schools. My friend who works in business said it's not true. These companies do hire people from various colleges. But it's still competitive no matter what college you graduate from. Even people from Harvard who wants a job at Goldman and Sachs might not get one. I've told dd this, but she till thinks Princeton would look good on her resume.

If you want to do investment banking, then yes, you need to go to a name school. Goldman and JP Morgan Chase do hire people from other schools, but very few for investment banking jobs. They're relegated to normal paying careers in IT or accounting. OTOH, investment banking is a hard life. The people who work those jobs between undergrad and grad school are like indentured servants who don't even get home every night, let alone having a personal life.

 

If she does go to Princeton, there is no business degree. She'd probably want to be an econ major.

 

Your dd seems to be very unsure of what she really wants to do. There's a huge gulf between going to a Bible school like Biola because you like the geographic area and going to Princeton because you want to end up on Wall Street.

 

For a taste of what studying econ at Princeton and prepping for a career in finance is like, I'd have her watch some of this MOOC:

 

http://oyc.yale.edu/economics/econ-252-11

 

What would she study if she went to Biola or Azusa? I went to see Biola's business offerings. Just by eyeballing them, I can say they're not a school for someone who wants to work in finance. They don't even offer an accounting degree. They only offer the squishy business majors that often result in working in retail management.

 

 If she can request a gap year, I think that's what she should do. If she has to start next fall, I'd choose Princeton if she will graduate with no more debt than her other top choices. If you have to pay full freight, I'd insist on having a coherent plan for a major and first job. The plan may change, but right now her goals are completely at odds with each other. Bible college and Wall Street just don't add up to a reasonable plan.

[MrSmith]

After the analyst years an MBA is needed for advancement to associate, and pedigree matters for b school admission.

 

Don't know about undergrad and I don't know CMC either, but for MBA west coast grads have difficulty competing with east coast schools for some reason. Could be proximity,could be alum bias, etc.

[Pen]

Can she go revisit a few of her top choices, including sitting in on some classes?

[Pen]

Seeing a relevant MOOC is a good idea.

 

Looking at a business school text might also be interesting.

 

Reading Liar's Poker or such a book also might be.

 

 

[Frances]

USC is University of Southern California

 

This is dds current list

Biola

Azusa

Princeton

Wheaton

Claremont McKenna

Barrett,the Honors College

Texas Christian

Florida Keys CC

Agnes Scott

Westmont

Point Loma

Santa Clara

Simmons

City College

 

She's considering Princeton, but only because it's Princeton. She would like to go out of state specifically California. But then she's afraid to go so far away, so she's considering City or Princeton. Then there's other colleges like Simmons and Wheaton that she likes. Biola and Asuza are very conservative. So she might be weeding these two colleges out, but she does like the area. Texas Christian she's 50/50 on. She said Texas as issues(no offense to Texans)

DD wants to study business and wants to work for Goldman & Sachs or JP Morgan chase. She read online that these companies only hire people from well known schools. My friend who works in business said it's not true. These companies do hire people from various colleges. But it's still competitive no matter what college you graduate from. Even people from Harvard who wants a job at Goldman and Sachs might not get one. I've told dd this, but she till thinks Princeton would look good on her resume.

Just curious, so feel free to ignore, but why is an out-of-state community college in Florida still on her list?

[Pen]

Just curious, so feel free to ignore, but why is an out-of-state community college in Florida still on her list?

 

 

She seems to not have a clear idea of what she wants. I'd guess Fl. Keys would be about "interesting location in warm area."

 

Others seem to be about "Christian."

 

Others about "women's."

 

Others about "near home."

 

Others about "career in investment banking."

 

Others possibly about "got good scholarship."

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

Does she have a systematic method for looking at these schools?  For example she seems to be looking at many women's colleges and wants to go to California but took Mills off the list?  Why?

 

I think she might need to develop a scoring system--location = x/5, women's= x/5, scholarship= x/5, major offered= x/5, etc. with whatever categories she finds important.  See which school wins.  Or maybe rank them by net cost, reputation, etc.  

[Teachin'Mine]

I'm baffled. 

 

In the other post you had written:

 

Thank you! DD applied to many colleges just for the heck of it. They bribed her with fee waivers, chocolate, tshirts. So why not apply when you get a free candy bar and don't pay anything in fees.Her top five were Duke, Pepperdine, Scripps,Harvard, UCLA. She got rejected from 4/5 of her top choices. She automatically weeded out certain colleges. Then is starting to weed out colleges due to size. She decided she wants a small college. She always wanted to go to California because it's warm. Then she's thinking about staying close to home. She wants diversity. Then it comes down to costs. She doesn't want to be in debt, and take out any loans. She did apply to outside scholarships.

 

What state is in-state for her?  Or in which geographical location is it (southwest, northeast, etc.)?

 

If Scripps was originally one of her top choices, why has it been eliminated?  

 

Has she gotten any of the outside scholarships or is she still waiting for decisions on those?

 

I'm guessing she eliminated Brown and USC due to their size?   Free tuition to USC must be hard to pass up and Brown is very different from Princeton.  Brown is also relatively not much larger than Biola and smaller than Texas Christian.

 

I'm not familiar with most of the ones on her reduced list, but it doesn't sound like they'd be high on diversity and some are likely rather conservative, which you had mentioned she's avoiding. 

 

Also not understanding the community college.

 

Can you afford to pay for the balance after scholarships so she doesn't have to take out loans?

 

She might really benefit from a professional college counselor.  It might be money well spent.

[snowbeltmom]

I'm baffled. 

 

In the other post you had written:

 

Thank you! DD applied to many colleges just for the heck of it. They bribed her with fee waivers, chocolate, tshirts. So why not apply when you get a free candy bar and don't pay anything in fees.  {snip}

She might really benefit from a professional college counselor.  It might be money well spent.

 

:iagree:

 

While I am sure that many of the 60+ colleges your daughter applied to did not require anything beyond submitting the Common Application, that would not be the case with the highly selective colleges your daughter applied to as those require multiple supplemental essays.

 

Maybe your daughter should reread the supplemental essays she wrote for the highly selective schools that accepted her to see if she still feels the same way today about the school and its fit as she did when she wrote the essays. 

 

[MBM]

If she wants to work for Goldman Sachs, Princeton's Operations Research and Financial Engineering degree (ORFE) would be an excellent choice.

 

http://orfe.princeton.edu

 

Where ORFE undergrads work their first year after graduation:

 

http://orfe.princeton.edu/sites/orfe.princeton.edu/files/documents/Post%20Graduate%20Plans%2014-00_0.pdf

 

ORFE grads tend to work in all areas of finance. If your daughter also likes pure math and studies that, she could work as a trader.

[purpleroses]

Just curious, so feel free to ignore, but why is an out-of-state community college in Florida still on her list?

Because of the area. The Florida Keys area is beautiful, so she's considering it.

[purpleroses]

She seems to not have a clear idea of what she wants. I'd guess Fl. Keys would be about "interesting location in warm area."

 

Others seem to be about "Christian."

 

Others about "women's."

 

Others about "near home."

 

Others about "career in investment banking."

 

Others possibly about "got good scholarship."

Yes dd can't make up her mind. Her top choices when she started applying kept changing. Then her location keeps changing. It's between staying close to home or moving across the country. She was sure that she wanted to attend a warm state far from home, then she thought about it and doesn't know if she should stay close to home. An all girls education sounds appealing to her. She said she might want to attend a christian college because kids are less likely to do bad things like sex, drugs, alcohol, but they might not offer what she wants. Some like Biola are too conservative for her. I told her sex, drugs, alcohol is at every college. Doesn't matter if its christian or not.

[purpleroses]

If she wants to work for Goldman Sachs, Princeton's Operations Research and Financial Engineering degree (ORFE) would be an excellent choice.

 

http://orfe.princeton.edu

 

Where ORFE undergrads work their first year after graduation:

 

http://orfe.princeton.edu/sites/orfe.princeton.edu/files/documents/Post%20Graduate%20Plans%2014-00_0.pdf

 

ORFE grads tend to work in all areas of finance. If your daughter also likes pure math and studies that, she could work as a trader.

Thank You for the links

[Luckymama]

(Speaking from personal knowledge here)

 

The kids I know who have gone into IB or working as a trader were incredibly driven and competitive in high school and in college. They took every opportunity available, studied crazy hours, and chased the great summer internships. Their jobs are their lives.

 

There's nothing wrong with that, but you have to desire that life, to the exclusion of everything else (Manhatten is so not the Keys lol).

 

If your dd is still considering a Florida community college or a religious schools without a true finance/business major, it doesn't seem to me that IBanking is a true interest.

 

Like others have said, I think you should contact a professional college counselor tomorrow.

[Teachin'Mine]

Because of the area. The Florida Keys area is beautiful, so she's considering it.

 

That's worth approx 25K per year for two years?   She could attend for less at a full tuition scholarship school (thinking USC) and have money left over for Florida vacations.  

[purpleroses]

I'm baffled.

 

In the other post you had written:

 

Thank you! DD applied to many colleges just for the heck of it. They bribed her with fee waivers, chocolate, tshirts. So why not apply when you get a free candy bar and don't pay anything in fees.Her top five were Duke, Pepperdine, Scripps,Harvard, UCLA. She got rejected from 4/5 of her top choices. She automatically weeded out certain colleges. Then is starting to weed out colleges due to size. She decided she wants a small college. She always wanted to go to California because it's warm. Then she's thinking about staying close to home. She wants diversity. Then it comes down to costs. She doesn't want to be in debt, and take out any loans. She did apply to outside scholarships.

 

What state is in-state for her? Or in which geographical location is it (southwest, northeast, etc.)?

 

If Scripps was originally one of her top choices, why has it been eliminated?

 

Has she gotten any of the outside scholarships or is she still waiting for decisions on those?

 

I'm guessing she eliminated Brown and USC due to their size? Free tuition to USC must be hard to pass up and Brown is very different from Princeton. Brown is also relatively not much larger than Biola and smaller than Texas Christian.

 

I'm not familiar with most of the ones on her reduced list, but it doesn't sound like they'd be high on diversity and some are likely rather conservative, which you had mentioned she's avoiding.

 

Also not understanding the community college.

 

Can you afford to pay for the balance after scholarships so she doesn't have to take out loans?

 

She might really benefit from a professional college counselor. It might be money well spent.

Scripps doesn't offer business as a major. The community college is because of the area. We're still waiting to hear from some outside scholarships. She eliminated USC and some big Flordia colleges due to size. How would I find a college counselor?

DD was sure what she wanted at the beginning, now she's unsure and can't make up her mind.

[Teachin'Mine]

Did your daughter apply to just a few schools last year and take a gap year to reapply this year?   If so, it's even more important that she chooses one with the right fit.  It doesn't sound like she's thinking logically about her options and she has some really good options.  Counseling would help tremendously.

[purpleroses]

That's worth approx 25K per year for two years? She could attend for less at a full tuition scholarship school (thinking USC) and have money left over for Florida vacations.

Thank you for pointing this out. Didn't even realize this. I feel stupid that I haven't done my own research from the beginning. I should've been more prepared.

[purpleroses]

Did your daughter apply to just a few schools last year and take a gap year to reapply this year? If so, it's even more important that she chooses one with the right fit. It doesn't sound like she's thinking logically about her options and she has some really good options. Counseling would help tremendously.

No, she didn't take a gap year. We just added an extra year(5 year plan) and continued on with her studies. This is her first time applying to colleges. I'm wondering if I should just take over and start giving dd choices that I think are fit for her.I don't know where or how to find a college counselor in my area.

[flyingiguana]

I would not be quick to pass up free tuition.  And a large school will have lots of majors and opportunities -- in case she changes her mind about what she wants to do.

 

Graduating debt-free or with substantially lower debt is also going to give her a lot more options once she's graduated.  She won't be tied to having to have a job that pays X amount of money to pay off her loans.  She'll have more freedom to do something else for a year or go to grad/professional school.  Or switch gears and go into something she loves that doesn't pay well enough to pay off loans and live a decent life.

 

I wouldn't do a CC unless it allowed her to live cheap (at home) and save money on tuition.  If she has a tuition waiver at a 4 yr, that would be my choice over the CC.

 

The kids I know who went and did CC in a warm climate have mostly just partied and not done too well.  Only one managed to transfer to a 4 yr school and struggled to do that.  There were just too many other kids there partying and lying on the beach.  It was hard to take it seriously.  (And I went to a 4yr school in a beautiful area.  I took it seriously.  As a result, I went to the beach twice in that 4 yrs.  So there wasn't much point to having the beach there.  Not that that's why I went there.)

 

Small schools can be great, but only if they're affordable.  Also look into whether the large schools have programs that group students in ways that allow them to make friends more easily.  I've been in both situations.  There are advantages to both large and small - and people who think they can't handle one or the other are often pleasantly surprised that they can.

 

The big advantage of small schools may be the teaching -- in theory you're getting professors who have taught for awhile, not TAs who are teaching for the very first time.  But my experience at big schools is that there are some excellent TAs (just not all of them).  Big schools do have a lot of research opportunities (but there is more competition for them).  But there are some smaller schools that do have research programs that undergrads are heavily involved in -- still with professors who have dedicated a lot of their time to teaching and gotten pretty good at it.  There are also a number of small schools that have a person or office who is dedicated to getting undergrads into research/internships etc even if it's outside that school.  (Well, there are big schools with that too)

 

 

[flyingiguana]

btw -- brand is nothing where we are (large midwestern city).  I think in areas with lots of good schools, there is really no advantage to having gone to a brand name back east or out west school. 

 

When I lived in CA, there was also no advantage.  There were a lot of UC schools that turned out fine graduates, and the "lower" tier state schools weren't seen as being that much lower in quality.

[Teachin'Mine]

Scripps doesn't offer business as a major. The community college is because of the area. We're still waiting to hear from some outside scholarships. She eliminated USC and some big Flordia colleges due to size. How would I find a college counselor?

DD was sure what she wanted at the beginning, now she's unsure and can't make up her mind.

 

A business major would likely be too weak for investment banking.  The school she attends and the networking she does there would likely count the most.  Princeton is ideal. It's also an easy trip to Wall Street for internships and all.  If she chose Scripps, she'd likely be majoring in economics, and then taking statistics at Harvey Mudd, Financial Economics courses at Claremont McKenna, etc.. I hate to bring it up again, but I really don't see someone who's in tears about not getting into her first choice but on the same day being accepted into Princeton and Brown as having IB as their goal.   Maybe some career testing/counseling would be helpful?  As for college counselors local to you, I'd search on the web, call local high schools.  Really I have no idea so hopefully someone else will have suggestions.

 

[flyingiguana]

Is business as a major really a deal breaker?  Would it be possible to major in something else that would also get her into the field she wants?  Math?

 

Other majors may actually offer her more flexibility four years from now when she's looking for a job.

 

Business is a very popular major.  If she wants to go into the sort of things a business major applies for, she may well do better with a math major that makes her stand out from the crowd of all those people who majored in business.  Anyone else know if that might be true?  (I'm only guessing)

[Brad S]

... doesn't offer business as a major.  ...

DD was sure what she wanted at the beginning, now she's unsure and can't make up her mind.

 

For investment banking, we've heard that having a double major in math and econ can be a very strong combination, possibly even better than a business major in some situations.  DD would need a couple finance classes, but those can be picked up a lot of ways.  (Caveat: this info. was collected about five to eight years ago, but older DS and I collected info from several reliable sources we considered reliable, including several business professors.) There are other combinations that have worked in the past, esp. with a highly quantitative background.

 

This is such a volatile and challenging age.  Most people I knew either changed their mind on major or direction early in college, later in college, or both, shortly after starting their career, or wished they had.  Sure, there are exceptions, but this is so common.  It's nice to make a decision that will leave open several options.  Best wishes!

 

[flyingiguana]

If it were my kid, I'd lay out a couple scenarios.

 

1.  Stay somewhat close to home, at a place that was relatively cheap IF it provided a solid education.  But to look into internships/research in the area of the country she has always wanted to be.  These often end up as grad school options later on.

 

2.  Anything with full tuition or nearly full would get my full attention

 

or 3.  *IF* Princeton or Brown or Scripps  was relatively cheap (scholarships) I'd give those a really hard look.  One of those might be my first choice.  But it's going to depend on the loan situation.  Don't do a big name school and end up paying for it forever.

 

The rest of the choices would probably just be white noise to me.  Location probably should not be a high priority  (see scenario 1)

 

 

[flyingiguana]

I'd also sleep on the decision for a few days