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Name Brand vs Non Name Brand


purpleroses
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For investment banking, we've heard that having a double major in math and econ can be a very strong combination, possibly even better than a business major in some situations. DD would need a couple finance classes, but those can be picked up a lot of ways. (Caveat: this info. was collected about five to eight years ago, but older DS and I collected info from several reliable sources we considered reliable, including several business professors.) There are other combinations that have worked in the past, esp. with a highly quantitative background.

 

The graduates I referenced above majored in math, economics, and/or finance. Math-economics is a very strong double major, giving oodles of opportunities even if one changes one's mind about career direction.

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As someone who attended a big school let me just say, you can go four years without attending a frat party. Or a football game. You can find your tribe. At church. Or in your research lab. Or during study abroad. You can radically change your major. (And a big school has almost all the majors). You can find a small department where everyone knows your name. You can sit in the front row and forget the 300 people sitting behind you.

 

Think hard about a free ride to USC. A big school is what you make of it.

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FWIW -- DS wants to be an IB.  He'll major in business with a concentration in finance IF he can get admitted to the business school at UNC.  That's a big if because competition is fierce (their undergrad business school is ranked by USNWR at third among national public universities and sixth among private and public universities).  If he doesn't get accepted into the business school then he'll major in economics.  Either route should get him where he wants to go, but the business degree with a concentration in finance would be a bit better.

 

He really has no aspirations for Wall Street.  Although he probably wouldn't turn down an offer, Charlotte or Atlanta are more what he's aiming for.

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I attended USC before transferring to Claremont McKenna for undergrad. I've also worked in investment banking in New York. If she would like to talk to someone about either school, or about the rigors of life in IB, I would be happy to speak with her. Feel free to PM. 

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Claremont is a great college town but there's not much around if you get outside Claremont, unless you head at least 20-30 miles east to Pasadena/LA.

 

 

Santa Clara is quite prestigious in the Bay Area, not sure about the East coast.

 

USC is a great school in a not-great area. I don't know your ethnicity, but there's been a sharp increase in attacks on Chinese USC students in the last couple of years. 

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It seems from your posts that you're possibly near NYC.

 

Is Princeton a good financial deal for your daughter? (If not, I'd stop right there.) If so, and if your daughter is seriously considering Princeton, does she have plans to attend one of the Princeton Preview days for admitted students? I haven't seen anybody mention that yet. It would be an easy train ride down, & she'd have the opportunity to see what they offer, sit in on a class or two, meet her fellow accepted students & current undergrads, see what eating clubs are all about, and get a hint of whether or not she'd fit in. I know that it really helped my dd make her decision a few years ago.

 

Does she know that all Princeton students complete an extensive independent study culminating in a senior thesis? (fun fact: Richard Rusczyk & a friend wrote the original AoPS book as Princeton seniors) Does that appeal to her?

 

As many others have said, it's not a given that the Princeton name would propel her to a Wall Street career. She'd have to do super well there, and that's not an easy thing to accomplish. I do agree with MBM that their ORFE major would be something to investigate. Here's a list of the senior theses done in ORFE for last year's graduating class. Does anything there sound appealing?

 

I also admit to being confused. Class offerings at Princeton or Claremont McKenna, etc, are going to be worlds apart from those offered at a CC in the Florida Keys. If UCLA had been one of her top five choices at the start, why is USC with free tuition no longer on her list? If she wants warm weather, she could do a term abroad or get summer internships in a sunnier climate. With her goals, she is not likely to have a lot of free time to hit the beaches during the academic year anyway.

 

What does she want next?  Does she understand what it takes to succeed at a place like Princeton? Is she the type who always wants to be the top of her class, or would she be devastated to be in the middle of the pack at a top school? Just something else to think about & not take lightly.

 

Time for some serious thinking & research! If I were you, I'd prioritize looking into what her top choices offer her & have her make a few visits this month, even if it affects her current school work. The next four years could be miserable for her otherwise. Good luck!

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Another thing to think about: if your daughter wants to go into investment banking, she doesn't have to start at Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan. It's not unusual for people to work elsewhere and/or get a graduate degree and then move to places like Goldman Sachs or JP Morgan.

 

Wherever she goes undergrad, what she'd want to do to keep doors open is maintain a good GPA, get involved in at least a few activities that interest and help her learn more about careers, and meet and get information from other people -- profs, speakers and even other students.

 

Good luck to your daughter!

 

ETA: Goldman Sachs' internships for college students which your daughter might want to read about purpleroses:

 

http://www.goldmansachs.com/careers/students-and-graduates/

 

The high school internship is offered or somehow associated with LEAD. I don't know much about it but here it is:

 

http://www.goldmansachs.com/careers/why-goldman-sachs/our-people/rob-profile.html

http://www.leadprogram.org/apps/pages/index.jsp?uREC_ID=215122&type=d&termREC_ID=&pREC_ID=420061

 

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For investment banking, we've heard that having a double major in math and econ can be a very strong combination, possibly even better than a business major in some situations.  DD would need a couple finance classes, but those can be picked up a lot of ways.  (Caveat: this info. was collected about five to eight years ago, but older DS and I collected info from several reliable sources we considered reliable, including several business professors.) There are other combinations that have worked in the past, esp. with a highly quantitative background.

 

This is such a volatile and challenging age.  Most people I knew either changed their mind on major or direction early in college, later in college, or both, shortly after starting their career, or wished they had.  Sure, there are exceptions, but this is so common.  It's nice to make a decision that will leave open several options.  Best wishes!

 

 

My youngest is planning to major in econ and math at Northwestern (MMSS). What he likes about the program is the flexibility to go in different directions with his career while working with professors and being mentored. A neighbor's son, who was torn between studying pure math and applied math (like my son), finished the program about five years ago and was able to find out about some unique jobs that he probably would have not found on his own. The mentoring can be especially helpful. Students can also find out what jobs entail before they decide to pursue them. It's pretty nice.

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Something weird is going on with the type face, size spacing, attempts to quote you etc. I can't seem to fix it.  Purpleroses wrote:

Yes dd can't make up her mind. Her top choices when she started applying kept changing. Then her location keeps changing. It's between staying close to home or moving across the country. She was sure that she wanted to attend a warm state far from home, then she thought about it and doesn't know if she should stay close to home. An all girls education sounds appealing to her. She said she might want to attend a christian college because kids are less likely to do bad things like sex, drugs, alcohol, but they might not offer what she wants. Some like Biola are too conservative for her. I told her sex, drugs, alcohol is at every college. Doesn't matter if its christian or not. 

 
 
I do not know how something like a 22K scholarship compares to "full tuition," nor if you qualify for anything need based anywhere that has not been mentioned.  But I would take very seriously the level of debt and financial pressure that any particular choice would result in. If she does get into IBanking, it may not be hard to pay off school debt, but getting into IB is by no means assured.  As well, 4 years is time in which to mature and perhaps get new ideas of what she may want to do with her life--and having huge debt could greatly hamper her. In that sense, unless she has qualified for financial need scholarship or some outside scholarship she can use there (or your family can afford to pay for it), Princeton could close doors for her too. 
 
Also keep in mind how well she can do at the various schools. At first when I saw the huge number of places applied to I thought that in itself must show a tremendous work ethic and ability to write huge numbers of impressive essays in a short time, but I now realize that probably a number of these schools were not actually hard to apply to with specialized essays required. You and she would know best if she can handle a very rigourous, heavy work load, usually heavy writing requirements type Ivy League school like Princeton. 
 
I would also take into account the big versus small issue and her concerns about alcohol, sex and drugs.   It does not necessarily mean a christian college is needed.  Maybe it means some serious work needs to be done in the next few months in figuring out how to find a group that will not pressure her into doing things she does not want to do.
 
If my own daughter were in this situation:
 
Preliminarily: Unless there is a school that she learned is really truly wonderful and an excellent fit for her, I'd eliminate any that she applied to based on freebies. To me going to a college based on having been given a candy or t-shirt and a free chance to apply is silly.  I also think that considering an out of state CC is silly, unless it had some particular program that she wants to go into and didn't get into any place else with such a program (say if she wanted to become a marine biologist, and a Florida CC was the best she could do toward that--but that is apparently not the case).
 
Once that was done, then:
 
First, if attending a Christian/Catholic/Bible college is not a top priority for the type of education it offers, I would write it off the list. 
 
Second, I would think very hard about all female versus having both genders around. If she decides she wants all female, eliminate all other options.  If she does not want all female, eliminate the all female options.
 
Then with presumably quite a few options eliminated by deciding if she does want to be at a Christian school, or not, or at a female college, or not, or perhaps to help make that decision if she cannot, I would start by making plans to visit some of the choices--this could simulate a situation in which someone needed to go to her or she needed to get home in an emergency or urgent situation, or even just the situation for travel at various breaks. If it is too hard to visit somewhere, I'd tend to eliminate it.
 
 
It is true that she may be so busy studying and doing college activities that she will not have time to go to a beach even if beach is nearby, but there is still a difference in heading to classes in snow, cold, grey, versus going in relative warmth, dry, and sunshine.  So I would consider that as it does make a difference. 
 
 
These are the ones I would most tend to consider from what I know about them, plus what has scholarships, in the various categories.
 
 

 Name-brand schools,  ranked by scholarship and warm location.

USC (full tuition)
Claremont McKenna(10k scholarship)
 
Princeton(we're shocked too)
Brown(surprised by this as well)
 
co/ed, small program with in larger univ., warm location
Barrett,the Honors College, University of Arizona (12k per year)
 
 
Christian - 
George Fox (10k scholarship)
Wheaton (if the one in Illinois) (20k scholarship)
Simmons(full tuition)
(I used to live near Biola at one time in my life, and now live near George Fox--personally I consider the Quaker college a far better option.  I don't personally know anything about the other options and so just went with reputation and scholarships to narrow it down).
 
Women's/small
  ...and also with warm location
Agnes Scott(22k scholarship)
Scripps
(I know people who went to Wellesley (loved it), Mt. Holyoke (loved it), Smith (hated it)--don't know anyone who went to any of these choices, but I know people who went to Pomona, Harvey Mudd and Claremont McKenna and loved the Claremont Colleges group in general)
 
 
 
Near home?
Hofstra(20k scholarship)
 
 

 

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Is this not true?


 


Scripps is a member of the Claremont Colleges, and much of student life revolves around the five colleges, or "5Cs." Scripps College, Claremont McKenna CollegePomona CollegePitzer College and Harvey Mudd College not only interact socially, but also share dining halls, libraries, and other facilities spread throughout the bordering campuses. All five colleges, along with Claremont Graduate University and Keck Graduate Institute of Applied Life Sciences, are part of theClaremont University Consortium.


Any student attending Scripps can enroll in up to 2/3 of their classes at the other four colleges, and can also major at any of the other four, so long as the student's requested major is not offered at Scripps. This is the general academic policy at all five schools, and is meant to give students the resources of a larger university while still maintaining the qualities of a small, liberal-arts college.


 


from Wikipedia


 


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Is this not true?

 

Scripps is a member of the Claremont Colleges, and much of student life revolves around the five colleges, or "5Cs." Scripps College, Claremont McKenna CollegePomona CollegePitzer College and Harvey Mudd College not only interact socially, but also share dining halls, libraries, and other facilities spread throughout the bordering campuses. All five colleges, along with Claremont Graduate University and Keck Graduate Institute of Applied Life Sciences, are part of theClaremont University Consortium.

Any student attending Scripps can enroll in up to 2/3 of their classes at the other four colleges, and can also major at any of the other four, so long as the student's requested major is not offered at Scripps. This is the general academic policy at all five schools, and is meant to give students the resources of a larger university while still maintaining the qualities of a small, liberal-arts college.

 

from Wikipedia

 

I

 

 

Yes, it's true. I've had friends who graduated from Harvey Mudd, Pomona, CMC, and Scripps. (Sorry, Pitzer!) They took classes and had friends at the other colleges. There's one main library (Honnold, I think, last time I visited) and then smaller libraries at some of the colleges.

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Is this not true?

 

Scripps is a member of the Claremont Colleges, and much of student life revolves around the five colleges, or "5Cs." Scripps College, Claremont McKenna CollegePomona CollegePitzer College and Harvey Mudd College not only interact socially, but also share dining halls, libraries, and other facilities spread throughout the bordering campuses. All five colleges, along with Claremont Graduate University and Keck Graduate Institute of Applied Life Sciences, are part of theClaremont University Consortium.

Any student attending Scripps can enroll in up to 2/3 of their classes at the other four colleges, and can also major at any of the other four, so long as the student's requested major is not offered at Scripps. This is the general academic policy at all five schools, and is meant to give students the resources of a larger university while still maintaining the qualities of a small, liberal-arts college.

 

from Wikipedia

 

I

 

 

 

Yes, this is correct. I majored in Russian at Pomona and Politics, Philosophy, and Economics (PPE) at CMC. All the major banks and consulting firms interview at CMC, as the school is known for its econ and government departments (25% of CMC grads enter law school -- the most in the nation -- which was one of the main reasons I transferred). I would be surprised that the students at Scripps have the same opportunities, to be honest.

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Yes, this is correct. I majored in Russian at Pomona and Politics, Philosophy, and Economics (PPE) at CMC. All the major banks and consulting firms interview at CMC, as the school is known for its econ and government departments (25% of CMC grads enter law school -- the most in the nation -- which was one of the main reasons I transferred). I would be surprised that the students at Scripps have the same opportunities, to be honest.

 

 

If OP's daughter accepted the CMC offer, to what degree could she partake of the life of Scripps as an all female college?

 

Or, if she accepted the Scripps offer, I understand that she could major and take most of her classes from CMC, while having the whole lifestyle of Scripps, but I guess from the above she could not interview with employers who come to CMC?

 

That was not as clear to me.

 

I am potentially interested in the Claremont colleges for my son to consider in a few years due to potential interests in CMC, HM, Pomona offerings, but was not so aware that interviewing afterwards would be limited to one's own college choice.

 

How would you compare CMC and USC in general, and also given the full tuition at USC versus whatever the other scholarship amount was at CMC?  

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I also admit to being confused. Class offerings at Princeton or Claremont McKenna, etc, are going to be worlds apart from those offered at a CC in the Florida Keys. If UCLA had been one of her top five choices at the start, why is USC with free tuition no longer on her list? If she wants warm weather, she could do a term abroad or get summer internships in a sunnier climate. With her goals, she is not likely to have a lot of free time to hit the beaches during the academic year anyway.

 

This.

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It seems clear that the OP's daughter is confused. That is the whole point of the thread, isn't it.

 

To some degree she seems to have been confused from the start without a single consistent theme to her top choices.  

 

There was a top tier Ivy, a women's college, a Christian college, a large school with a good reputation in southern Calif, etc. in the first group of "favorites"...  In a way the theme overall was "keeping doors open," and she is still leaning toward Princeton it seems as a way to "keep doors open" without, I think, realizing that she may actually be closing some doors for herself by doing that, if it gets her saddled with debt or puts her somewhere where her grades are going to be ho-humm.

 

It does not seem clear to me that she has visited her choices. And it does not seem clear that she has researched them well, so as to know things like that is is possible to major in any major at any Claremont college from any of them.

 

 

 

But this also seems to be a very important time for her to learn about herself and figure out what she really wants.  And even kids who have a clear theme to their college applications may not have done much delving into themselves, so that even though it looks more clear on paper, they may be just as muddy about understanding their own selves and what they want from college.

 

 

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But this also seems to be a very important time for her to learn about herself and figure out what she really wants.  And even kids who have a clear theme to their college applications may not have done much delving into themselves, so that even though it looks more clear on paper, they may be just as muddy about understanding their own selves and what they want from college.

 

It's ok if they don't know this at their age.  Many kids don't.  They still do just fine at many different colleges.  What they need to do is pick something they think they like and head that direction keeping their eyes open to see what interests them.  Take advantage of all they can at whatever college they've chosen and they're likely to do well with life.  Barely scrape by at any college and life can be more difficult.

 

And no matter what, beware of high debt.  IMO, no undergrad school is worth high debt - absolutely none.

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Perhaps I'm being too practical but unless you have unlimited financial means, I would simply cross out any school that didn't provide very significant aid or full tuition.  It appears that you have full tuition offers from USC and Simmons.  In addition, I believe that Brown and Princeton offer significant aid even to higher income households although maybe not to the extent of Stanford and Harvard. Most of these universities are large enough that a student can find a niche. If she wants a woman's college, I would look at Simmons. If she wants California then USC.  If the net COA is low enough, I do think Princeton and Brown might be more heavily recruited for IB simply by virtue of being Ivies and on the East Coast. Keep in mind as others have said there are loads of kids who want to do IB and selection for those jobs is extremely competitive and the jobs are very demanding.  

 

I have to say your daughter's list of schools and financial aid offers is eye opening and highlights the rather capricious nature of the college selection and financial aid process. While USC offers full tuition, you have many lower tier schools providing little to no merit on your list.

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If OP's daughter accepted the CMC offer, to what degree could she partake of the life of Scripps as an all female college?

 

Or, if she accepted the Scripps offer, I understand that she could major and take most of her classes from CMC, while having the whole lifestyle of Scripps, but I guess from the above she could not interview with employers who come to CMC?

 

That was not as clear to me.

 

I am potentially interested in the Claremont colleges for my son to consider in a few years due to potential interests in CMC, HM, Pomona offerings, but was not so aware that interviewing afterwards would be limited to one's own college choice.

 

How would you compare CMC and USC in general, and also given the full tuition at USC versus whatever the other scholarship amount was at CMC?  

 

Anyone can experience the life at other Claremont colleges by attending classes, visiting speaker series, and parties (of which there are many), but each college really does have a unique flavor to it. I originally went to visit Pomona, but quickly realized that it's very liberal atmosphere was not the place for me. I wandered onto CMC's campus, listened in on some lectures, did more research about the school, and just knew that it would be a good fit for me. And it was. I loved my CMC experience.

 

Also, as I mentioned in my PM, when I was at USC, it did not have the reputation for academic rigor that it does today, which colored my analysis. CMC had/has incredible placement with law schools, and that was my primary focus. But, I am still a rabid USC football fan! 

 

The Claremont Colleges share a recruiting program (https://www.claremontmckenna.edu/csc/employers/recruiting_options.php), however, the colleges are each known for very different things, and IME, employers recruit accordingly. If you go to a school like USC, banks will come to campus, but they won't recruit from all majors. It will be very targeted to econ, math, etc. At a liberal arts college like CMC, it will often be very different. Banks and consulting firms recruited me even with a Russian major, though I did have a quant/econ background, in part because of CMC's broad gen ed requirements.

 

I agree with the others that debt for undergrad should be kept to a minimum. IME at both schools, CMC and USC are very generous with aid. 

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I have to say your daughter's list of schools and financial aid offers is eye opening and highlights the rather capricious nature of the college selection and financial aid process. While USC offers full tuition, you have many lower tier schools providing little to no merit on your list.

I too found this fascinating. How do you not get the top merit aid at a school like George Fox where it is basically based on a formula, but get accepted to Brown and Princeton and get full tuition at USC. Her daughter must be a very interesting candidate.
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DD is making a final decision about where she wants to attend college in the fall. She weeded  out most of the colleges on her list, but is still unsure if she's making the right choice. She got accepted into some name brand schools. The specific school  she's looking at is a very selective school. DD told me that if she decides to attend this school over others, she's only going because of its name and reputation. Not because she herself wants to go. She said it's important to love the school but it's just as important for the school to have resources and connections so she can get hired. I think she does have a point, but I did tell her name brand isn't everything. Why spend four years of your life being miserable just because of it's name.  DD then pointed out how kids from name brand schools have an advantage over kids from non name brand schools. Especially when it comes to employment and looking over résumés. I don' t think this is true but again she does have a point. But is it ever a good idea to attend a college just because of it's name? I told DD I want her to be happy wherever she goes, I don't want her to be unhappy for four years.

 

If the profession requires who-you-know more than what-you-know, such as:

 

  • Business
  • Government (not, a specific skill like environmental economics, but just... government)
  • An arts subject that is associated with the school
  • Ummm... ? Law, getting into a good law firm?
  • Graduate school aspirations in a specific field such as the above, in which names matter

Then I say go brand-name.

 

Otherwise, go where you'll learn more.

 

I think name makes a difference when you can't show the output of your work clearly, when it's all about who you know. In that case of course you need to know people in the know.

 

Otherwise, it's kind of like... what do you call a graduate of low tier medical school, with a 2.0 average? Doctor.

 

Edited: I see now she wants to do international banking. I know many people who graduated from "normal" schools then finished at LSE. That seems to be a common course, and if you have a full scholarship as an undergrad and can save your $$$ for LSE, I say go for it. That's where you make the real connections. I mean listen to me--like I know all these people in banking. I know them secondhand. I know people in diplomacy that did LSE, though. 

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I too found this fascinating. How do you not get the top merit aid at a school like George Fox where it is basically based on a formula, but get accepted to Brown and Princeton and get full tuition at USC. Her daughter must be a very interesting candidate.

 

:iagree:

 

I find this whole thing hard to understand. This is a student who is allegedly organized enough to handle all the paperwork involved in applying to something like 60-80 colleges (which would require setting up at least 3 or 4 separate Common App accounts, since each account has a limit of 20 schools), including arranging for her SAT scores and DE transcripts to be sent to all of those schools. She had the time to write all those essays and the financial means to pay for all those application fees and SAT score reports and CSS profiles on her own with no parental assistance, and yet she's not organized or together enough to do the research to choose between these vastly different schools?

 

She has acceptances to two Ivies and a full scholarship to USC — despite being a homeschooler with no APs who took 5 yrs to finish high school and seems to have no real passions or sense of direction — but she also spent tons of time and money applying to schools that are well below anything an Ivy candidate would normally consider a "safety"? Her short list includes Ivies, a top 25 private university, and a CC in Florida???

 

By coincidence, there used to be someone with the same username (purpleroses) who posted on CC about trying to get into many of the same schools — Duke was also her "dream school" and she was gutted that she was rejected; she said she did get into USC but had no interest in going there. 

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I find this whole thing hard to understand. This is a student who is allegedly organized enough to handle all the paperwork involved in applying to something like 60-80 colleges (which would require setting up at least 3 or 4 separate Common App accounts, since each account has a limit of 20 schools), including arranging for her SAT scores and DE transcripts to be sent to all of those schools.

 

I'm assuming many of the stranger schools on the list sent her "crap apps" .. Shorter marketing apps with no essay, no fee, quick to fill out with your basic credentials. You document your grades and test scores after you decide to go there.

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Edited: I see now she wants to do international banking. I know many people who graduated from "normal" schools then finished at LSE. That seems to be a common course, and if you have a full scholarship as an undergrad and can save your $$$ for LSE, I say go for it. That's where you make the real connections. I mean listen to me--like I know all these people in banking. I know them secondhand. I know people in diplomacy that did LSE, though.

 

I work with two people who have grad degrees from LSE and both went to regular in-state schools, one the local LAC and the other the flagship state university. Your advice about avoiding undergrad debt is spot-on if something like LSE is of future interest. Both are paying off substantial debt for their time living and studying abroad. Although I think the OP's daughter is interested in investment banking, not international banking. But perhaps LSE would also be good for that.

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If the profession requires who-you-know more than what-you-know, such as:

 

  • Business
  • Government (not, a specific skill like environmental economics, but just... government)
  • An arts subject that is associated with the school
  • Ummm... ? Law, getting into a good law firm?
  • Graduate school aspirations in a specific field such as the above, in which names matter

Then I say go brand-name.

 

Otherwise, go where you'll learn more.

 

I think name makes a difference when you can't show the output of your work clearly, when it's all about who you know. In that case of course you need to know people in the know.

 

Otherwise, it's kind of like... what do you call a graduate of low tier medical school, with a 2.0 average? Doctor.

 

Edited: I see now she wants to do international banking. I know many people who graduated from "normal" schools then finished at LSE. That seems to be a common course, and if you have a full scholarship as an undergrad and can save your $$$ for LSE, I say go for it. That's where you make the real connections. I mean listen to me--like I know all these people in banking. I know them secondhand. I know people in diplomacy that did LSE, though. 

 

 

Edited: I see now she wants to do international banking. I know many people who graduated from "normal" schools then finished at LSE. That seems to be a common course, and if you have a full scholarship as an undergrad and can save your $$$ for LSE, I say go for it. That's where you make the real connections. I mean listen to me--like I know all these people in banking. I know them secondhand. I know people in diplomacy that did LSE, though.

 

I work with two people who have grad degrees from LSE and both went to regular in-state schools, one the local LAC and the other the flagship state university. Your advice about avoiding undergrad debt is spot-on if something like LSE is of future interest. Both are paying off substantial debt for their time living and studying abroad. Although I think the OP's daughter is interested in investment banking, not international banking. But perhaps LSE would also be good for that.

 

I believe it's investment banking the OP's DD is interested in.

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:iagree:

 

I find this whole thing hard to understand. This is a student who is allegedly organized enough to handle all the paperwork involved in applying to something like 60-80 colleges (which would require setting up at least 3 or 4 separate Common App accounts, since each account has a limit of 20 schools), including arranging for her SAT scores and DE transcripts to be sent to all of those schools. She had the time to write all those essays and the financial means to pay for all those application fees and SAT score reports and CSS profiles on her own with no parental assistance, and yet she's not organized or together enough to do the research to choose between these vastly different schools?

 

She has acceptances to two Ivies and a full scholarship to USC — despite being a homeschooler with no APs who took 5 yrs to finish high school and seems to have no real passions or sense of direction — but she also spent tons of time and money applying to schools that are well below anything an Ivy candidate would normally consider a "safety"? Her short list includes Ivies, a top 25 private university, and a CC in Florida???

 

By coincidence, there used to be someone with the same username (purpleroses) who posted on CC about trying to get into many of the same schools — Duke was also her "dream school" and she was gutted that she was rejected; she said she did get into USC but had no interest in going there. 

 

Oh, I think plenty of us are wondering about it... going back to the original list.  It definitely doesn't even come close to matching anything I've seen IRL.  The advice I've added (on all related threads) has been typed with readers in mind.

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I have a graduate degree in finance from LSE. Great school, great education. They have one year masters degrees which can save you time, if not money. (London is crazy expensive.) Lots of my peers went into banking. They were very quantitative and very very driven. Not the right fit for me. I went to law school afterwards, and happily use my finance background as a tax attorney. Banking isn't the only path after finance.

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:iagree:

 

I find this whole thing hard to understand. This is a student who is allegedly organized enough to handle all the paperwork involved in applying to something like 60-80 colleges (which would require setting up at least 3 or 4 separate Common App accounts, since each account has a limit of 20 schools), including arranging for her SAT scores and DE transcripts to be sent to all of those schools. She had the time to write all those essays and the financial means to pay for all those application fees and SAT score reports and CSS profiles on her own with no parental assistance, and yet she's not organized or together enough to do the research to choose between these vastly different schools?

 

She has acceptances to two Ivies and a full scholarship to USC — despite being a homeschooler with no APs who took 5 yrs to finish high school and seems to have no real passions or sense of direction — but she also spent tons of time and money applying to schools that are well below anything an Ivy candidate would normally consider a "safety"? Her short list includes Ivies, a top 25 private university, and a CC in Florida???

 

By coincidence, there used to be someone with the same username (purpleroses) who posted on CC about trying to get into many of the same schools — Duke was also her "dream school" and she was gutted that she was rejected; she said she did get into USC but had no interest in going there.

Most schools that spam her sent her crap apps like another poster said. DD did take AP/ honor courses. She has passions, does volunteer work, is in extracurricular activities. We decided on a 5year plan because she said she wasn't ready to graduate. She also wanted to take more challenging courses and show colleges that she improved from freshman year. She wasn't behind.

 

Her top choices were selective schools. Knowing how competitive some schools are, I encouraged her to apply to some community colleges. Knowing she will get accepted. She was stubborn about it. I kinda had to force her to consider. I will admit, I didn't do enough research . We both didn't actually. We started wayy too late. I know all these questions and concerns about location, majors, etc should've been done a long time ago. She attended the college fair in our area and thought she knew what she was looking for, but was still unsure. First it was law then it changed to business. Her choices kept changing. Then her location kept changing. Then she realized she might not have a good chance of getting into any college she wanted to after she looked at her grades from freshman/sophomore year. She didn't want to get rejected or fail, which she did. She takes rejection/ failing very personal,she did talk about this with her therapist.

 

A mom at our co-op recommended her friend to us. I did look at college counselors in our area. No way was I spending all that $$$ on someone to help dd pick out a college. She got her list down to six.

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I too found this fascinating. How do you not get the top merit aid at a school like George Fox where it is basically based on a formula, but get accepted to Brown and Princeton and get full tuition at USC. Her daughter must be a very interesting candidate.

We, well I didn't expect much from these schools. Knowing how competitive they are We didn't know what they were looking for. DD improved a lot from freshman to senior year. I didn't want dd to do things that she hated just to get in. I told her pick a few things, expand on it, be herself/honest in her essay and if a college likes her or saw something in her they might consider her. Living in NYC, I've seen a bunch of elite parents putting too much pressure on certain colleges, especially the ivies. They have their kid enrolled in everything, tells them a 90 good enough, and even writes or tries to write their kids essays for them. We just took a chance.

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I too found this fascinating. How do you not get the top merit aid at a school like George Fox where it is basically based on a formula, but get accepted to Brown and Princeton and get full tuition at USC. Her daughter must be a very interesting candidate.

 

 

Could you explain what you mean--particularly in regard to the George Fox scholarship?  I don't know anything about a formula for that.

 

 It sounds like you would have expected higher, while I am surprised it was that high (that is, as a scholarship rather than a need based financial aid package).  To me $10,000 from a school like George Fox would indicate that they want her very much. (Assuming it is all real.  I realize that some people here seem to doubt that this is a real situation.) I'd see the difference as coming from different endowments that schools like USC and George Fox have.  Where is the info about the formula that George Fox uses and what do you expect OP's dd would get?  

 

Are we talking about the same George Fox?  I know of one in Oregon and assumed that was the one.

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Could you explain what you mean--particularly in regard to the George Fox scholarship? I don't know anything about a formula for that.

 

It sounds like you would have expected higher, while I am surprised it was that high (that is, as a scholarship rather than a need based financial aid package). To me $10,000 from a school like George Fox would indicate that they want her very much. (Assuming it is all real. I realize that some people here seem to doubt that this is a real situation.) I'd see the difference as coming from different endowments that schools like USC and George Fox have. Where is the info about the formula that George Fox uses and what do you expect OP's dd would get?

 

Are we talking about the same George Fox? I know of one in Oregon and assumed that was the one.

Since I live in Oregon, I know several local homeschool families whose children were accepted to George Fox and awarded merit scholarships. According to the parents, for the regular academic scholarships, George Fox basically uses a formula based on GPA, class rank (great for homeschoolers 😄), and ACT or SAT scores. Most local students I know received at least $10K, and some received as much as 50% more. So I was surprised that the OP's daughter did not seem to have the grades and/or test scores to get more $ from George Fox, but did have the grades and test scores to get into some very selective schools.

 

I just went and looked at their website and it says the regular academic scholarships range from $8-$15K. I played around with their calculator a bit, and you can go significantly below the average GPA and test scores of admitted students at a school like Princeton and get $10K. But the OP did post recently about lower freshman and sophomore year grades and the George Fox website does say something about applying early before the money is gone, so perhaps those factors along with the more holistic viewing of the entire application for admission at very selective schools explains it.

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The letters 'USC' is a registered trademark owned by the University of Southern California.

 

File that under 'pointless but true' :p

 

 

Maybe so, but if you say USC in the southeast everyone thinks University of South Carolina. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

... And here (northern California), "SC" means not USC but (UC) Santa Cruz or Santa Clara (University). (Apparently in the Los Angeles area, many people just say "SC" instead of "USC.") My son (at college in northern CA) was talking with some fellow students from SoCal about "SC" and it took them quite a while to realize that the kids from the south were talking about USC and the kids from the north were thinking they meant Santa Cruz -- but some of it didn't add up (prestige, price, etc.).  :lol:  (We didn't realize SoCal folks sometimes drop the "U")

 

In fact, when I was in college, Santa Clara was "University of Santa Clara," but in 1985 it changed its name to "Santa Clara University" because of the confusion with USC ... (Talk about "name brands," indeed!) 

:glare:

... and I notice that University of South Carolina's URL is sc.edu, but USC's is usc.edu

 

 

ETA: OK, I wasn't going to give advice, but I guess I'll throw out a few things ... While I loved my time at Princeton, and didn't notice any more depression than at other schools, I will say undergrads there are very ... hmm, focused and driven. (As a PP said, if she's shocked she was admitted, perhaps that's something to consider.) And there is a much different vibe from California schools.  I agree with recommendations for some kind of professional advice. Or what about visiting as many of the top choices as possible, right now? Each campus definitely has its own culture/vibe. Also, my brother is a professor at USC; I know he doesn't consider it a great "value," but of course free tuition makes it a viable option.

 

What an interesting time for our young people -- these decisions about their future. ... We know a student who has to decide this month between Cal (Berkeley) and Caltech. It is a factor of 4 difference in price, since Cal gave lots of $$$ (and is 1/2 the price to start with) and Caltech gave zilch; in terms of the student's intended major, Cal has a better department; but this student loves playing a sport and could make/"be" the team at Caltech (but they wouldn't win a single game :lol: ), whereas Cal's team is in the top 3 or 4 nationally and making the team is out of the question (but helping out at games would be thrilling). And in terms of size, some of the big intro classes at Cal have more students in the lecture hall than the entire undergraduate student body at Caltech (however, this student is an extrovert and would very likely find Caltech too small) ... Another young person, my son's best friend (homeschooled), will choose between SC (haha! UC Santa Cruz, here) and one of several fine schools back East (including RIT) ... His mother helpfully pointed out that the price difference between UCSC and the East Coast schools (over 4 yrs) is the price of a Tesla.  :auto: Putting it that way made it more real to him. :laugh:

 

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Since I live in Oregon, I know several local homeschool families whose children were accepted to George Fox and awarded merit scholarships. According to the parents, for the regular academic scholarships, George Fox basically uses a formula based on GPA, class rank (great for homeschoolers 😄), and ACT or SAT scores. Most local students I know received at least $10K, and some received as much as 50% more. So I was surprised that the OP's daughter did not seem to have the grades and/or test scores to get more $ from George Fox, but did have the grades and test scores to get into some very selective schools.

 

I just went and looked at their website and it says the regular academic scholarships range from $8-$15K. I played around with their calculator a bit, and you can go significantly below the average GPA and test scores of admitted students at a school like Princeton and get $10K. But the OP did post recently about lower freshman and sophomore year grades and the George Fox website does say something about applying early before the money is gone, so perhaps those factors along with the more holistic viewing of the entire application for admission at very selective schools explains it.

 

 

Thanks. We are also in Oregon, and depending on how things go, GF is a possible place that my ds could apply, if he wants to stay local.  It is good to know about the calculator and need to apply early!

 

I did not know about the calculator.  Interesting.   I ran some numbers on it, trying out 3.5 GPA, since she was said not to have done as well at the start as the end, I did not know what to put, but wanted something high enough to be in consideration for Princeton--but where Princeton might be a surprise, and 1st in class (since she would be only one as a homeschooler if that makes sense?), and 31 for the ACT being at the bottom of Princeton's list for admitted students.  It gave $10,000 as the scholarship amount.  ETA I just tried a 4.0 GPA along with the 31 ACT score and still only got $13,000.  It looks like the students you know going to GF and getting those $15 K scholarships must have very good ACT/SAT scores.  That actually fits with my vague impression which is that the students there are quite good for such a little known school.  

 

Another impression I've had is that there is a culture of "nice" (behavior and attitudes) there--do you know if that is so?

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Since I live in Oregon, I know several local homeschool families whose children were accepted to George Fox and awarded merit scholarships. According to the parents, for the regular academic scholarships, George Fox basically uses a formula based on GPA, class rank (great for homeschoolers 😄), and ACT or SAT scores. Most local students I know received at least $10K, and some received as much as 50% more. ...

 

I just went and looked at their website and it says the regular academic scholarships range from $8-$15K. ...

 

I fell in love with George Fox and wanted my sons to end up there ... :)

 

They used to have a table/grid on their financial aid webpage giving the GPA and SAT/ACT cutoffs for the various scholarship amounts (ranging from, yes, $8k to $15k). I see they've taken that off and just have the calculator now. (I'm glad I took a screenshot of the table; otherwise I would have thought I was going crazy! :) )

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