Would you still let your kids watch 7th Heaven & the Cosby Show?

[Katy]

So we have DVD's of 7th Heaven & The Cosby Show, and previously they've been free reign activities in colder months for kids who are done with all their chores.  This year I'm hesitant to pull them out though, with all the news about Stephen Collins and Bill Cosby being sex offenders.  Do you let your kids watch things like that?

[Georgiana Daniels]

What??? I hadn't heard this.

[EKS]

I'm not familiar with 7th Heaven, but I would have no problem with my kids (even if they were younger) watching the Cosby Show.  

[Rebel Yell]

Yes.  And old movies with Lindsay Lohan. If the movie/TV show itself is good, I don't care as much about the actors' personal life.  With older kids we may discuss how they are in the news for making bad choices, etc.

 

But to me, that;'s preferable to watching a movie made by a squeaky-clean actor (or actors who haven;t been found out :glare: ) with a crummy message/violence/sleaze/etc.

 

It's also preferable to a movie/TV show with good morals and good morals of the actors that is just painful- as in, poorly done, boring, etc.

 

No movie or actor is going to be perfect. We do the best we can with what there is.

 

[Joker]

My dds asked to throw away our 7th Heaven collection when we saw the news about Collins, so we did. I don't think I can watch anything with him in it anymore. We often rewatch The Office episodes on Netflix and we now skip the one he's in. We don't own any Cosby Show dvds but have watched it all. We would just turn the channel if it came on tv now.

[Rebel Yell]

Adding to my answer above: We are not so much into "Stars." I don't care which famous actor married/divorced/etc. who... I just don't follow that as news.

 

We can never 100% avoid everything that has been "soiled" by imperfect people- not our entertainment, not our groceries, not our clothing, not our books.

[itsheresomewhere]

Yes we still watch them.

[Katy]

I'm kind of leaning towards what Rebel said, but I'm feeling insecure about it.

 

Georgianna- yep, half a dozen model/actress types have now accused Bill Cosby of drugging and raping them in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the most recent being Janice Dickenson.  And there's a recording of Stephen Collins in marriage therapy explaining abusing an underage relative of his ex wife to his then current wife. He's suing her for leaking it to the press, but hasn't denied it.

[zoobie]

Yes.

[sunflowerlady]

Yes.

[Georgiana Daniels]

I'm kind of leaning towards what Rebel said, but I'm feeling insecure about it.

 

Georgianna- yep, half a dozen model/actress types have now accused Bill Cosby of drugging and raping them in the 60's, 70's and 80's, the most recent being Janice Dickenson.  And there's a recording of Stephen Collins in marriage therapy explaining abusing an underage relative of his ex wife to his then current wife. He's suing her for leaking it to the press, but hasn't denied it.

 

That just makes me sick. And sad.

[redsquirrel]

Well, if we judge all art by the artist I think we will end up with not much. That said, everyone gets to make those decisions for themselves. 

 

I know that I stopped watching Woody Allen movies a long time ago...20 years? I have had lots of people tell me I am being unreasonable, but I just can't do it.

 

I haven't really thought about Bill Cosby, but I have known about these allegations for a long time. This isn't news, it has been around for a while but no one seemed to pay attention to it. A male comedian brings it up in his act and it goes viral and suddenly everyone is talking about it?

 

I've never watched the show '7th heaven' and had never heard of it so I am not missing much, lol. 

 

It is a difficult thing to decide and I try not to judge people for the decision they make.

 

[AimeeM]

To the best of my knowledge, these are currently "allegations", and nothing has been proven... no?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yes.  The shows are shows where the actors pretend to be different people with scripted roles and dialog.  The actors have their own lives with their own unscripted choices.  

[Ethel Mertz]

I have no idea what '7th Heaven' is. Our 12 year old has just got into the Cosby Show and enjoys it immensely. He has no idea about the allegations against Cosby and I don't plan on telling him. Should he find out, we'll discuss it then. He also loves movies with Bing Crosby and we haven't told him of the allegations of domestic violence against good old Bing. Since the news we discuss doesn't include the lives of TV/Movie stars, he's unlikely to come across it.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Yes.  The shows are shows where the actors pretend to be different people with scripted roles and dialog.  The actors have their own lives with their own unscripted choices.  

 

This is the reasoning I use for differences in lifestyle and political opinion, or when I simply dislike the person as themselves but can still admire and enjoy their work.

 

I can't stretch it to rapists and pedophiles. Those persons fall under the category of "people whom we refuse to know" and they aren't allowed in my living room. 

 

Edited to add: As chagrined as I am at the allegations against Bill Cosby, he has not been convicted nor admitted guilt so I don't think it's right to lump him in with Stephen Collins yet. I hope to God that none of it's true, but if it is, I hope the truth will be made known.

[Joker]

To the best of my knowledge, these are currently "allegations", and nothing has been proven... no?

 

True, but in the case of Stephen Collins there was a video recording of him admitting it - and he's only angry about it leaking but hasn't denied anything. My dds are 12 and 14 and when they heard about it said they didn't want to watch 7th Heaven anymore. Oldest said it makes it worse that he played such a squeaky clean character who loved children and was helping them in one way or another in almost every episode.

[Reflections]

Adding to my answer above: We are not so much into "Stars." I don't care which famous actor married/divorced/etc. who... I just don't follow that as news.

 

We can never 100% avoid everything that has been "soiled" by imperfect people- not our entertainment, not our groceries, not our clothing, not our books.

 

In agreement and adding that I think too, that people sometimes have thought that what happened in a popular book or a popular tv show is how real life "is" or "should be".  So that when their favorite "dad" like Mr. Huxtable or Rev. Camden has done something atrocious in real life, it's hard for people to disassociate the actor from the tv show.

[VeteranMom]

My kids don't watch those shows for reasons other than who stars in them.   

I'd have to ask...do you let your kids listen to Michael Jackson music?  Similar accusations there.  

[Chris in VA]

IDK--I want my kids to read Hemingway, and he was a womanizer and an abusive alcoholic, according to some.

 

One's work is not one's self.

 

BUT, I am not a big fan of Woody Allen, and refused to watch his newest film with dh, who adores WA's work.

 

So there's that.

[AimeeM]

True, but in the case of Stephen Collins there was a video recording of him admitting it - and he's only angry about it leaking but hasn't denied anything. My dds are 12 and 14 and when they heard about it said they didn't want to watch 7th Heaven anymore. Oldest said it makes it worse that he played such a squeaky clean character who loved children and was helping them in one way or another in almost every episode.

I understand the evidence *against* him, but I'm not fond of condemning others (especially when there could be monetary gain by the accusers) without all of the facts in, and we do not have that yet. 

The Bill Crosby allegations are nothing new. It has yet to be proven.

[AimeeM]

This is the reasoning I use for differences in lifestyle and political opinion, or when I simply dislike the person as themselves but can still admire and enjoy their work.

 

I can't stretch it to rapists and pedophiles. Those persons fall under the category of "people whom we refuse to know" and they aren't allowed in my living room. 

 

Edited to add: As chagrined as I am at the allegations against Bill Cosby, he has not been convicted nor admitted guilt so I don't think it's right to lump him in with Stephen Collins yet. I hope to God that none of it's true, but if it is, I hope the truth will be made known.

... Stephen Collins has not admitted guilt or been convicted yet, either. 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

If it's true it's not going to be proven. The statute of limitations has expired, and the possibility of gathering evidence has expired. It's whether he confesses or whether his accusers are believed, at this point. We may never know.

[Meadowlark]

My kids don't watch those shows for reasons other than who stars in them.

I'd have to ask...do you let your kids listen to Michael Jackson music? Similar accusations there.

What are the other reasons?

[Lang Syne Boardie]

... Stephen Collins has not admitted guilt or been convicted yet, either. 

 

I thought he had partially and unofficially admitted it. Sorry!

[Tanaqui]

For such a simple question, I have multiple answers.

 

1. I wouldn't watch those shows to begin with, so it's a moot point.

 

2. However, if I wanted to watch them now, and *already had the DVDs* (that part is crucial), I do not think it is morally wrong to do so.

 

2a. I do not think it is unreasonable to think and act differently. That's why I eventually stopped reading the Xanth books, after all.

 

3. I would not purchase brand new DVDs at this point, though, because I would not want those actors getting more royalties.

 

3a. However, purchasing used DVDs is still on the table. Actually, I get a little bit of malicious glee from purchasing used books by authors whose politics and behavior I adamantly disagree with.

[Farrar]

Sometimes I can't personally separate the artist from the art and thus wouldn't watch something. Other times the popularity of something is leading to profit for the offender, so basically I'll boycott.

 

I was never a fan of Seventh Heaven, so that I can't say (he always had a creepy vibe to me!). I think I would continue to let my kids watch old Cosby shows... not thought about it much, but I tend to agree that we can't background check every artist and performer.

[VeteranMom]

What are the other reasons?

My kids are 11, 12, and 12.  I'm pretty selective about what they are going to watch.  I feel both of the shows have a lot of teen situations in them and dh and I have decided that television isn't the way we want to introduce the life issues to our kids.  I don't let my kids watch a lot of the movies I watched when I was their age, either.  It's personal choice.  

[5of5]

There doesn’t seem much support for a boycott, but for those who are considering it, would you also refuse to watch a Pixar movie if you discovered that a key software programmer for the computer animation routines was a criminal?

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Sometimes I can't personally separate the artist from the art and thus wouldn't watch something. Other times the popularity of something is leading to profit for the offender, so basically I'll boycott.

 

I was never a fan of Seventh Heaven, so that I can't say (he always had a creepy vibe to me!). I think I would continue to let my kids watch old Cosby shows... not thought about it much, but I tend to agree that we can't background check every artist and performer.

 

This is how I feel about it. I don't feel it's morally wrong to watch those shows, but I'd have a very hard time enjoying them. Seventh Heaven isn't our taste, but I've been trying to decide how I feel about the Cosby issue myself. I think I'd still let the kids watch them.

 

I actually do have a very hard time listening to Michael Jackson music, and I don't watch Woody Allen or Roman Polanski films, and I can't bring myself to read anything by Marion Zimmer Bradley or Orson Scott Card anymore. I can't enjoy the work because in the back of my head, what I know about them is ruining my experience. However, I also feel that way when I know too much about how a movie was filmed--I can't suspend disbelief if I know too much about the process. DH loves watching "behind the scenes" type interviews and footage, and I always have to leave the room. It ruins the magic for me!

 

I agree that we can't background check everyone too, so I just try to avoid news about this kind of stuff. I really wish I hadn't heard about Marion Zimmer Bradley :(

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

There doesn’t seem much support for a boycott, but for those who are considering it, would you also refuse to watch a Pixar movie if you discovered that a key software programmer for the computer animation routines was a criminal?

 

I might, but IMO it's not exactly the same scenario. Both Collins and Cosby were the beloved patriarchs of their huge franchises--the stories revolved around them. You were meant to feel like you were part of their family, and they were part of yours. It would be different if there was news that one of the head cameramen on Seventh Heaven was a pedophile--he would be just one of the many faces that blend into the background. 

[Laurie4b]

I would not at this point purchase anything done by Cosby. The allegations make me very sad because we have so many family memories of laughing ourselves silly at Cosby audios. The kids can quote many lines. Yet, I have to say that when there are that many witnesses--all with not a thing to gain-- and with consistent stories (age when it happened, similar grooming process, etc.) that it is likely to be true. It makes me very, very sad.

 

I think "innocent till proven guilty" is for a court of law. Where the law cannot  be brought to bear, I think we are then left with a choice of disbelieving the alleged victims or disbelieving the allged perpetrator. To be a victim and not be beleived is awful, just like to not be a perpetrator and be believed to be one is awful. There is no "safe" route to take, like "innocent till proven guilty." The other side is "truthful until proven to lie." Like I said, with that many victims and that much consistency, I am going to err on the side of believing the alleged victims. I haven't had time yet to watch video of them telling their stories (to look for signs of deception) but I will probably do that.

 

[Lang Syne Boardie]

What about Orson Scott Card??

[Tangerine]

What about Orson Scott Card??

I know that particular one has affected DH's enjoyment of his work.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

What about Orson Scott Card??

 

In the past he has supported laws criminalizing homosexuality.

[umsami]

So, I actually stopped watching Woody Allen movies after I read more about Dylan's story.  I'm a survivor.  I believe survivors.  I don't want to put any money in that man's pocket.  I remember seeing "Rosemary's Baby" before I knew about the scandal and enjoying it.  I did see and like "The Pianist."  But once I learned more about the allegations....no, I can't watch Polanski's films again.  

 

 

I feel the same way about "The Cosby Show" because Bill personally benefits so much from all of the syndication. I really enjoyed it.  It's the type of show that my kids would watch.  But I don't want to support him at all.  I don't want to give my money to a serial rapist.  While nothing has been proven in court (same with Woody Allen), he did settle with one woman.  There's been too many allegations to ignore, to be honest.  

 

Only really liked the first season of "Seventh Heaven"...but no, I don't think I could watch it now.

 

I'd rather support people who (to the best of my knowledge) have not victimized others.  

[Lang Syne Boardie]

In the past he has supported laws criminalizing homosexuality.

 

Thank you.

 

I just googled and learned about his opinions on pedophilia and homosexuality. I'll have to go talk to my kids and find out if they ever picked up on this in any of his books.

[FO4UR]

This is all sad news to me, and it will cause me to choose other things to watch.

 

 

It *is* hard to separate the actor from the character sometimes, especially for children.  I feel betrayed and heartbroken that Mr. Huxtable isn't the wholesome husband and father I grew up thinking him to be.  Why put that on my kids when there are so many other TV options?

 

 

 

No, I'm not dong criminal background checks on all actors.  Honestly, drug charges make me sad for the actor.  Sexual abuse charges are a whole different realm ... sheer evil! 

 

...and yeah, that goes for Michael Jackson too.

 

[Farrar]

What about Orson Scott Card??

 

I assume his anti-gay remarks? That one was interesting because, IIRC, he specifically said he would donate money he made to anti-gay rights causes, making it clear that if you bought his books or saw the movies...

 

I didn't know that Marion Zimmer Bradley thing. Uck.

[ChocolateReignRemix]

... Stephen Collins has not admitted guilt or been convicted yet, either. 

 

Actually he is on audio admitting to molestations and giving graphic details.  Unfortunately due to the statute of limitations for those crimes he is unlikely to ever be prosecuted.

[Joanne]

I've avoided Woody Allen for years. It never made me sad.

 

I was never a 7th Heaven fan; that does not make me sad.

 

Bill? Makes me sad, sad, sad. And angry.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

I assume his anti-gay remarks? That one was interesting because, IIRC, he specifically said he would donate money he made to anti-gay rights causes, making it clear that if you bought his books or saw the movies...

 

 

 

Wow.

 

My failure to make a decent living has kept me from unwittingly supporting celebrity and author causes I don't believe in, thank goodness, as we get most of our extra reading and viewing material from the library. So I never enriched him or his agenda but the younger kids won't read his books, either.

[MrsMommy]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because I used to watch both shows, and I'd been thinking about introducing them to my children before all this news came out.

 

Technically, I guess I'd still let them watch, however, now knowing what I know, I'm so skeeved out by both of them, and angry, that I don't want it on in my house. I've had the same problem with Tom Cruise ever since he went off the deep end. They might be good actors, and I might like the shows/movies they're in, but I can't get over what I know about them as people, so I just can't watch anymore.

[Joanne]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, because I used to watch both shows, and I'd been thinking about introducing them to my children before all this news came out.

 

Technically, I guess I'd still let them watch, however, now knowing what I know, I'm so skeeved out by both of them, and angry, that I don't want it on in my house. I've had the same problem with Tom Cruise ever since he went off the deep end. They might be good actors, and I might like the shows/movies they're in, but I can't get over what I know about them as people, so I just can't watch anymore.

 

 

Me, too.

 

And I've heard things about John Travolta, too, that squick me out.

 

The *talent* represented in this thread is vast. Such a shame.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I didn't know that Marion Zimmer Bradley thing. Uck.

 

Oh darn, I'm sorry! I read and LOVED her kids' books when I was a child. It wasn't until I was all set to read The Mists of Avalon that I found out about it, about 6 months ago. I thought it was something everyone knew but me! 

[Suzanne in ABQ]

Why are we so quick to condemn, when we don't know the facts?  The charges brought against him decades ago were disproven.  They're now resurfacing, but it's the same old charges that were dropped back then.  Restating them doesn't make them true.  

 

Many women wouldn't hesitate to fabricate such a story, claiming something that happened 40 years ago, in order to cash in on a wealthy person's fortune, or to sell a book.  People are always trying to get something for nothing.

 

The Cosby Show was funny because it rang true.  I learned a lot from that show, and wouldn't hesitate to let my kids watch it.  I'm not going to throw out years of quality work because some model is telling stories, at least not until I know they were true.

 

If he really did those horrible things, then I'll be terribly disappointed.  But I'm not going to judge him until I know he's guilty.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

Why are we so quick to condemn, when we don't know the facts?  The charges brought against him decades ago were disproven.  They're now resurfacing, but it's the same old charges that were dropped back then.  Restating them doesn't make them true.  

 

Many women wouldn't hesitate to fabricate such a story, claiming something that happened 40 years ago, in order to cash in on a wealthy person's fortune, or to sell a book.  People are always trying to get something for nothing.

 

The Cosby Show was funny because it rang true.  I learned a lot from that show, and wouldn't hesitate to let my kids watch it.  I'm not going to throw out years of quality work because some model is telling stories, at least not until I know they were true.

 

If he really did those horrible things, then I'll be terribly disappointed.  But I'm not going to judge him until I know he's guilty.  

 

Knowing what we know about the statistical rates of sexual abuse in this country, I find it far, FAR more likely that he is guilty than that the women are lying. And it hurts me to say that, because I loved him as a comedian and an actor and believed him to be a good human being. 

 

ETA: Also, attitudes like the bolded set victims' rights back decades. Why is it so hard to believe that rich, powerful men might take advantage of their power and abuse it? Just because he was a funny celebrity, he's less likely to be a rapist? Please do some reading about what accusers go through before and after they speak out against their rapists.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Why are we so quick to condemn, when we don't know the facts?  The charges brought against him decades ago were disproven.  They're now resurfacing, but it's the same old charges that were dropped back then.  Restating them doesn't make them true.  

 

Many women wouldn't hesitate to fabricate such a story, claiming something that happened 40 years ago, in order to cash in on a wealthy person's fortune, or to sell a book.  People are always trying to get something for nothing.

 

The Cosby Show was funny because it rang true.  I learned a lot from that show, and wouldn't hesitate to let my kids watch it.  I'm not going to throw out years of quality work because some model is telling stories, at least not until I know they were true.

 

If he really did those horrible things, then I'll be terribly disappointed.  But I'm not going to judge him until I know he's guilty.  

 

I thought the charges brought against him decades ago were settled out of court which is not the same as disproven.

 

Also, not all 15 of these women brought charges in the past. Some did but some didn't.

 

Why is it right to assume he is innocent and they are trying to cash in on his fortune or sell a book (when they don't have a book, in most cases, especially) but it isn't right to assume he's guilty and they are victims who should at least be heard?

 

You have the same amount of evidence either way, so why is one inclination morally right and the other wrong?

[ChocolateReignRemix]

Why are we so quick to condemn, when we don't know the facts?  The charges brought against him decades ago were disproven.  They're now resurfacing, but it's the same old charges that were dropped back then.  Restating them doesn't make them true.  

 

I believe some of your facts are off a bit, and in fact most of the allegations against Mr. Cosby have never been "disproven", and he has settled at least one civil suit out of court.

[Momof3littles]

Why are we so quick to condemn, when we don't know the facts?  The charges brought against him decades ago were disproven.  They're now resurfacing, but it's the same old charges that were dropped back then.  Restating them doesn't make them true.  

 

Many women wouldn't hesitate to fabricate such a story, claiming something that happened 40 years ago, in order to cash in on a wealthy person's fortune, or to sell a book.  People are always trying to get something for nothing.

 

The Cosby Show was funny because it rang true.  I learned a lot from that show, and wouldn't hesitate to let my kids watch it.  I'm not going to throw out years of quality work because some model is telling stories, at least not until I know they were true.

 

If he really did those horrible things, then I'll be terribly disappointed.  But I'm not going to judge him until I know he's guilty.  

 

The vast majority of these women have not sought nor received a penny from Bill Cosby, and the statute of limitations has expired as far as I know.

 

I understand people are concerned that we don't have a conviction, but the fact that these women are not settling for money and the statute of limitations has expired is quite concerning.  I think their accusations should be taken seriously. 

 

I disagree with your assertion that "many women wouldn't hesitate to fabricate such a story."   I also disagree that "people are always trying to get something for nothing."

 

Should we ever believe accusers who don't have cold, hard evidence?  There are women everywhere who have been assaulted or were assaulted as children but don't have hard evidence on their side.  Should they remain mum?

 

FWIW, I've been a long time fan of the Cosby Show, and have very mixed feelings about how to handle it from this point on.  It doesn't seem as "funny" to me when I'm thinking about Bill Cosby potentially having committed serious crimes.