Has anyone graduated early in lieu of dual-enrollment?

[elegantlion]

I know there are more considerations than financial, but I'm considering that aspect at this moment. 

 

Ds is working independently on the days I'm at school. Next year, I'll probably have to be at school 5 days a week. Right now I'm too tired to help on those days. I also am concerned about isolation, ds is a hermit as am I, and there are no academic outlets in our area except dual-enrollment. 

 

He could easily dual-enroll next year (senior year), yet it's discounted not free, still $95/credit hour, plus books. I can't afford to enroll him in more than 1 class probably. However, if I graduated him and enrolled him as a freshman, he'd receive aid. My school accepts everyone that breathes and pays. I receive a grant, a grant would cover his tuition for 9 or 12 hours a semester. Another however is that this is not the school he wants to attend, he's leaning toward engineering school. My university does have a transfer program, so he could do a year or two there then transfer (knowing that it'd take another 4-5 years to finish his BS). He's not at the ability to handle engineering school next year as he needs more time to firm up his math and physics and study skills. He could do that at my university.

 

I could tweak his transcript to show 4 years of high school work and they go mostly off the ACT score anyway (which he'll take twice this year). 

 

The biggest reason why I'd consider this is the isolation and my inability to really help as much as I'd hoped. He works well on his own, but we've made a habit of working together and *I* feel like I'm shoving his academics aside, when really I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed. 

 

I'm going to talk to him today and see how he'd feel about it, but I'm curious if anyone else has done this and how it might affect a transfer (I know he'd lose any freshman scholarships).

[kiana]

I know there are more considerations than financial, but I'm considering that aspect at this moment. 

 

Ds is working independently on the days I'm at school. Next year, I'll probably have to be at school 5 days a week. Right now I'm too tired to help on those days. I also am concerned about isolation, ds is a hermit as am I, and there are no academic outlets in our area except dual-enrollment. 

 

He could easily dual-enroll next year (senior year), yet it's discounted not free, still $95/credit hour, plus books. I can't afford to enroll him in more than 1 class probably. However, if I graduated him and enrolled him as a freshman, he'd receive aid. My school accepts everyone that breathes and pays. I receive a grant, a grant would cover his tuition for 9 or 12 hours a semester. Another however is that this is not the school he wants to attend, he's leaning toward engineering school. My university does have a transfer program, so he could do a year or two there then transfer (knowing that it'd take another 4-5 years to finish his BS). He's not at the ability to handle engineering school next year as he needs more time to firm up his math and physics and study skills. He could do that at my university.

 

I could tweak his transcript to show 4 years of high school work and they go mostly off the ACT score anyway (which he'll take twice this year). 

 

The biggest reason why I'd consider this is the isolation and my inability to really help as much as I'd hoped. He works well on his own, but we've made a habit of working together and *I* feel like I'm shoving his academics aside, when really I'm just feeling a bit overwhelmed. 

 

I'm going to talk to him today and see how he'd feel about it, but I'm curious if anyone else has done this and how it might affect a transfer (I know he'd lose any freshman scholarships).

 

Frankly, for you, your student, and your situation, it sounds like a good idea.

 

It is very common for underprepared engineering students to start out at a community college. I would recommend getting through calc 1 before transferring, and then repeating calc 1 at the engineering school for a firmer foundation. While he is at it, he could do algebra-based physics (he will need calc-based for engineering school, but again, this will help his foundation) and work on gen eds to lighten his load once he gets there. Other class recommendations would depend on where he places and how long he needs to spend at the CC to be ready for calculus, but I would recommend economics as a social science gen ed and intro to programming as an elective. 

[regentrude]

Just have a brief moment to respond, but in your situation, this sounds like a sensible plan. If you are sure he will get admitted and wants to go the transfer route anyway, go for it.

[FaithManor]

I graduated at 16.5 and since we didn't have a community college near us at the time, took three correspondence classes from a university. It worked out just fine for me, and then I went straight to my four year college after that.

 

I think that in your situation, it is fine. Also, many of our cc's accept GED students and so they don't really worry all that much about transcripts and what not. This may very well be the case in your area as well. Here, a 21 in the math section gets them into college algebra, a 24 or higher gets them into college pre-calc, and a 28 gets them into college calc if they want to enroll that high their first semester. They look at reading comp and math scores on the ACT for placement in science and writing courses as well (entirely ignore the science section score) or if the student didn't take the ACT, have the student sit the COMPASS exam. The local one is pretty used to homeschooled students being non traditional and so they don't really pay any attention to the transcript or the diploma and go off the ACT or COMPASS placement.

 

My cousin ended up at U of MI Flint when she was a 10th grader due to the fact that her high school didn't have anything else to offer her. (She'd been grade skipped twice, so since they didn't offer Calc or Calc based physics, advanced chems, etc. she was stuck), and she hadn't "graduated" in the traditional sense. She went there for two years and then transferred to another university with a special biology research program. She has her PH.D. so I don't think that the non traditional road hurt her at all. It didn't hurt me a bit.

 

 

[HS Mom in NC]

We graduated ours and then sent them to community college at 15 and 17.  I didn't want to be bothered with dual enrollment.  They tested into college level classes.

[Lori D.]

Definitely has advantages in the short term (next year). :)

 

What about the long term:

Would an extra year of high school help DS's GPA and ability to score high on SAT/ACT tests (needed for Engineering school admissions), and to do any projects, volunteering, or extracurriculars that would help earn additional merit aid? Say, the difference between a few thousand dollars and full tuition scholarship?

 

Or, would it be more financially feasible to knock out the gen. ed. at the local university while living at home, and then try for transfer scholarships and work study later at the Engineering school?

 

Also, is there a high school extracurricular that would be valuable for DS to be participating in -- this year and next -- to help towards admission to future Engineering school (or even scholarship $$) -- after-school Robotics club, 4-H project (rockets or other), 

 

You mentioned isolation:

Would there be some high school extracurricular(s) that DS is motivated/interested in that would get him involved with peers? Or do you think DS will be more likely to meet/get involved on a university campus (he will be younger than the average student)? Can you push … er, encourage ;) ... him into participating in 1-2 extracurriculars this year to help meet people, develop interests, and reduce isolation?? Or, whenever he goes to the university (whether next year or future), can you encourage him to join 1-2 of the campus clubs?There are often Engineering, Math, and Science clubs (which is what I would suggest to DS), as well as more social, religious, or service-oriented clubs.

 

 

Tough to try and "see the future" to know what's the best option today! BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Teachin'Mine]

Is dual enrollment free for public school students?  If so, could he enroll and take all or most of his classes at the CC?

 

Is there a limit for the federal grant?  Meaning is it available for longer than four years.   My concern would be that he'd use that for a year or two at the community college, and then because engineering has so many required courses he'd need another four years at university, but would the grant be available all four years?  

 

As it stands, DE would cost him approx $400 per course.  Could he shovel snow or anything like that to pay for a couple of courses this coming semester?  It might be good for him to have a more gentle intro to college before your college schedule is five days a week.  Will he have a car and his license next year to get to classes?  If he did DE through the public school, would they help with transportation or transportation costs?

 

I'd contact the university he'd like to attend and talk with admissions and financial aid about the likely costs for either scenario.  I'd also ask how many transfers their engineering program accepts each year.   I agree that getting to a higher level of math before university would be very helpful, but I would ask the university what they think would be best acceptance wise and cost wise.

[Melissa B]

I'm not sure what state you are in, but our state has both a three-year and a four-year high school plan. A three-year high school transcript may look more solid than stretching what you have to cover four years. I know plenty of kids that have chosen to graduate in three years and gone on to college without issue. :)

 

The three-year plan:

 

4 Math

4 English

3 Science

3 Social Studies

1 Fine Arts

3 Electives

[Orthodox6]

Our CC district does not ask for a diploma. Just age of eighteen for regular enrollment. We did not even need a high school transcript until time to transfer to a four-year university.

[G5052]

Certainly that's an option, and one that I've held in my back pocket as a possibility if there was no adult available to keep them going.

 

Going straight from homeschool to college with no in-between can be tough, but it goes better for older kids (i.e. senior year).  If you could fit in one or dual enrollment classes before you go full-bore that would be great, but I realize that doesn't always fit the situation.

 

This semester I had a student who was graduated at 16 and was set up for a full 15-hours.  Well, she lasted two weeks.  I don't know the details, but another professor (also a homeschooling mom) told me that she withdrew from her classes and went back to homeschooling.  I wondered why because she seemed so enthusiastic, and then BOOM -- she was completely gone with no classes with the date for a full refund arrived.  It can be a rough transition.

[elegantlion]

Just to answer a few questions, this is a 4 year university, not a CC and they have existing transfer agreements with the other colleges he is considering. I'm printing off what classes transfer to what. Dual-enrollment is not free for any high school student in our state. The only difference I've noticed with this school is that books are provided for public school students that attend at their high school. 

 

As far as extras this year, there are really none in our town. Most high school activities are through church or school and we do neither. All the real activites happen in the town my university is located. At this point, I think he'd do better with college students vs high school I think. He won't be driving this year, he has no desire to learn yet (weird?!) and I can't afford the insurance anyway. 

 

I'd probably have him sign up for 9-12 hours. Pell grants are available for 12 semesters, so 6 years, which is a consideration too. He's not a decent enough candidate for full ride (not in my opinion) at engineering school, he just doesn't have the activities or the advanced study. 

 

My university accepts anyone with an ACT score of 21 or more, with that he'd get out of remedial classes. 

 

I'm going to talk with him in a few minutes. Because of our situation, budget is a huge issue, we just don't have money for any extras and if he stays at home for all of next year, it's not really going to be moving him forward, it's more like a holding pattern - not sure if that's good or bad. 

 

I'm pulling out his 8th grade files to see what could be considered high school level. It would make an acceptable transcript, but not stellar. My only concern would be if transferring would use that transcript or go off his 1-2 years of study - another question to research. 

 

My original plan was to let him dual enroll 1 class next semester, then 1-2 each semester his senior year. With the personal life issues, that's just not going to happen. I keep having to set aside the emotional aspect of this to focus on whether this is the best choice for him. 

[Lolly]

I think it is a very good option. Having you both in college should also increase the amount of $ coming your way. I would caution him to not try to take too many hours his fist semester. 

[KarenC]

Can he audit classes at a reduced rate?

[Teachin'Mine]

I think I've asked before, but honestly I don't remember your response.   Is there any way that he could accompany you to college this year?  It would get him out of isolation, and even if classes aren't affordable, he could do his school work there.  You might even want to contact the honor societies and ask if any of their students would be willing to volunteer tutor him in his classes.  They often have to do service work anyway and this could be a great benefit for both.   He could spend time at the library, eat in the cafe with you, etc..   And even without taking classes, he'd be learning a bit about college life and navigating the campus and all.

 

It's not an easy decision to make.  After talking with your son, maybe both of you could meet with an advisor at your college and brainstorm a bit all together.

[KarenC]

Since you work there, maybe a couple of professors would let him set in on their class.  

[elegantlion]

Can he audit classes at a reduced rate?

 

Auditing is the same rate as regular tuition. 

 

I think I've asked before, but honestly I don't remember your response.   Is there any way that he could accompany you to college this year?  It would get him out of isolation, and even if classes aren't affordable, he could do his school work there.  You might even want to contact the honor societies and ask if any of their students would be willing to volunteer tutor him in his classes.  They often have to do service work anyway and this could be a great benefit for both.   He could spend time at the library, eat in the cafe with you, etc..   And even without taking classes, he'd be learning a bit about college life and navigating the campus and all.

 

It's not an easy decision to make.  After talking with your son, maybe both of you could meet with an advisor at your college and brainstorm a bit all together.

 

That might be an option next semester. Part of the challenge is neither of us are morning people and leaving at 8am is hard enough for me without fighting him to get up and about. He enjoys the days I'm gone so he can sleep in a bit. There are plenty of places on campus to kick back and relax, and I've been taking my lunch as food is too expensive on campus and it's not worth it to leave for an hour. It would increase my food budget taking him, which is one con. 

 

Since you work there, maybe a couple of professors would let him set in on their class.  

 

I'm a student, not an employee. 

[Hunter's Moon]

I graduated in November as opposed to May so that I could attend CC for the January semester. 

 

My reasons were the same -- I would receive aid as a student, but not as a dual-enrolled student. 

 

The only time this would not work is if your DS intended to pursue a field where CC was looked down on (Medical comes to mind). 

 

Otherwise, I think it is a great idea. 

[KarenC]

Then I would have him take the number of credits that you can afford and transfer later.

[Jann in TX]

Please be cautious about a low ACT score--- sometimes ACT/SAT scores come back to haunt students...

 

My middle dd wanted to go into Pre-Med-- her college GPA was a 4.0 but her ACT score was low-- too low for a 'white female student' (I could not believe that they were allowed to use 'reverse discrimination'!! -- her score was fine for other demographics).  She changed her major to English...

 

Many Engineering schools have ACT/SAT minimums as well--- gaining admission to the desired XYZ College of Engineering is not the same as being admitted to the XYZ university...

[Teachin'Mine]

As for lunch, I would think that just about anything he'd be eating at home for lunch could be packed so it shouldn't change your food costs much.  Drinks can be taken as well.  Getting up early enough is another matter.   But if he's going to go to college next year, it's a good idea that he learns to set his own alarm and get up as needed.  He can do a lot of the prep the night before to make it easier to get out in the morning.  I would think that he'd enjoy being in the college environment and that would be incentive enough to get going early.   But teens do like their sleep!

[elegantlion]

Please be cautious about a low ACT score--- sometimes ACT/SAT scores come back to haunt students...

 

My middle dd wanted to go into Pre-Med-- her college GPA was a 4.0 but her ACT score was low-- too low for a 'white female student' (I could not believe that they were allowed to use 'reverse discrimination'!! -- her score was fine for other demographics).  She changed her major to English...

 

Many Engineering schools have ACT/SAT minimums as well--- gaining admission to the desired XYZ College of Engineering is not the same as being admitted to the XYZ university...

 

Yes, some of this would hinge upon his ACT score. He took a practice test without any prep last year and got a 24, and he's doing a prep book this year. I'm expecting a much better score this year as his math is further along too. 

[maize]

If you a referring to Pell grants, it looks like a person may be eligible for up to twelve semesters--so approximately six years of study.

[Teachin'Mine]

If you a referring to Pell grants, it looks like a person may be eligible for up to twelve semesters--so approximately six years of study.

 

Thank you that's good to know.

[maize]

Thank you that's good to know.

Here's the link:

 

https://studentaid.ed.gov/types/grants-scholarships/pell

[Ellie]

We graduated ours and then sent them to community college at 15 and 17.  I didn't want to be bothered with dual enrollment.  They tested into college level classes.

 

Ditto, although mine started taking classes when they were 14. By the time they were 16, they were pretty much full-time at the c.c., and there was no point in *not* graduating them. In California, all of their c.c. college-level classes transferred to the state colleges and universities, and AFAIK, all of the private colleges accepted the credits, as well. No ACT/SAT scores were necessary, either, not even for c.c. enrollment.

[HS Mom in NC]

Our local CC also has 95 level (high school level) English, Reading and Math classes because it's not unusual for people around here who never homeschooled to enroll their minor students (13-15 year olds) in the CC when a ps high school situation doesn't work out. Lots of people who did homeschool but for wherever reason don't want to homeschool high school take this route too.  You don't get college credit for a 95 level class but if you pass it, you can then take the 101 college level class next.  People for whom English isn't their first language sometimes have to take the 95 Reading and English classes.  So do remedial students whether they have a diploma of any kind or not.

 

CC doesn't care about a diploma or SAT, ACT, or PAST scores for enrollment.  Everyone takes the same placement test and that's used to determine which classes they can take or test out of. If you choke on the placement test you can retake it the next day.

 

We like our homeschool high school diplomas from this website:http://www.homeschooldiploma.com/diplomas-and-covers/diplomas/high-school-diplomas-for-home-schools.html

[elegantlion]

Our local CC also has 95 level (high school level) English, Reading and Math classes because it's not unusual for people around here who never homeschooled to enroll their minor students (13-15 year olds) in the CC when a ps high school situation doesn't work out. Lots of people who did homeschool but for wherever reason don't want to homeschool high school take this route too.  You don't get college credit for a 95 level class but if you pass it, you can then take the 101 college level class next.  People for whom English isn't their first language sometimes have to take the 95 Reading and English classes.  So do remedial students whether they have a diploma of any kind or not.

 

CC doesn't care about a diploma or SAT, ACT, or PAST scores for enrollment.  Everyone takes the same placement test and that's used to determine which classes they can take or test out of. If you choke on the placement test you can retake it the next day.

 

We like our homeschool high school diplomas from this website:http://www.homeschooldiploma.com/diplomas-and-covers/diplomas/high-school-diplomas-for-home-schools.html

 

Thanks for the reminder on the diploma, that would shift all my graduation plans forward a year. He's low key, but I still want announcements and a nice diploma. 

 

Is financial aid available if he is not a full time student?

 

How about a senior year of half day classes, half day work?

 

He will get a percentage of aid if he does 9 hours, 12 hours if full time. Under 6 does not qualify for aid. 

 

Jobs are scarce around here. I couldn't find one this summer, there are very few jobs for teens and you have to know the right person. Plus I'll have the car and can't afford to buy another one. 

 

I checked, he needs 24 hours to transfer without having to submit ACT or high school transcript. So that would be 3 semesters if he only did 9 hours the first one. 

[kiana]

If he's concerned about not getting full aid, he can enroll for 3 credits of courses such as PE (they offer many options at most universities), Health, or other courses that are usually 1-credit courses which do not require excessive time outside of class, in addition to 9 credits of academic classes. Even many engineering schools require some sort of lifetime fitness classes for gen eds, so he could get that done. 

[Teachin'Mine]

Once he's enrolled at college, couldn't he apply for student work on campus?  

[elegantlion]

If he's concerned about not getting full aid, he can enroll for 3 credits of courses such as PE (they offer many options at most universities), Health, or other courses that are usually 1-credit courses which do not require excessive time outside of class, in addition to 9 credits of academic classes. Even many engineering schools require some sort of lifetime fitness classes for gen eds, so he could get that done. 

 

I took our health and fitness requirement online last year, it was an easy A - that would be a good 4th class. 

 

My son took job hunting tips from another teen..line up the job 6 to 9 months ahead of time with a small business owner that is in commute distance (ie walking or biking). Go over and introduce yourself to the prospective employer, briefly mention your skills and ask to be considered for any openings that are available in May(orwhatever month he wants to start). Leave an application with references. Check back 3 months later etc. If you get a no, ask if there is anyone else that they know that could use a good worker.be persistent, introduce yourself, and ask everyone in the community..there are a lot of older men that will help out an earnest teen.

 

If he is 16 senior year, it is alittle more difficult. Most teens I know in that situation are self employed or working for a relative.

 

Also consider jobs near the U.

 

We just don't have the ties here to pull off too much networking, even the grocery stores aren't advertising jobs. He has some health limitations, so he can't shovel snow or mow lawns. He'll be 17 next week, so age isn't so much an issue. 

 

Once he's enrolled at college, couldn't he apply for student work on campus?  

 

He could if he applies for federal work study, but I probably would want him to focus solely on school at least for the first semester. Tuition is cheap enough that a grant should cover most to all of it. I'll probably be doing work study too, which is another consideration for graduating him early. 

 

This is so not how I wanted to end his homeschooling career. He also wasn't considering engineering school strongly until this summer and he's not quite ready for that. He's progressing, yet he works very methodically and can't be rushed through a subject. I've also tried to stress that being an engineer (or any career for that matter) at age 23 vs 21 is not that different, although it could feel like he's behind. 

[AdventuresinHomeschooling]

I did.  I skipped my junior year of high school and went to college just after I turned 17.  For my state diploma, there was only one subject that required a full 4 credits.  I doubled up on English my senior year and went on my way.  I figured anything I was missing was just to be repeated in college in general eds.  And I did just fine and went on to graduate school, too.

[Barbara H]

One thing I'd keep in mind is that engineering programs are very demanding in terms of credits. It is not uncommon for students to end up with 16 or 17 hours every semester and still be unable to graduate in four years and most of those are students coming in with some AP credit. So, for any student considering debating between dual enrollment conventional enrollment, I suggest looking at limits on financial aid and parent resources. Another option for a student who needs something part time would be to think about maybe completing some credits through CLEP if the school allows that.

[katilac]

Is his dad completely unwilling to pony up extra money for DE? Would he possibly pay for it directly? Some parents are jerks about child support stuff, and are more willing to pay directly for something when they would never consider giving the money directly to the custodial parent. 

 

 

[NCMom]

One thing I'd keep in mind is that engineering programs are very demanding in terms of credits. It is not uncommon for students to end up with 16 or 17 hours every semester and still be unable to graduate in four years and most of those are students coming in with some AP credit. So, for any student considering debating between dual enrollment conventional enrollment, I suggest looking at limits on financial aid and parent resources. Another option for a student who needs something part time would be to think about maybe completing some credits through CLEP if the school allows that.

 

I would second this and would also look at the actual course work involved.  At the dd's school, engineering is so tracked that having a 2 year degree doesn't really shorten the degree time as much as you might think, and certainly not by two full years. You have to take many of the courses in order and some are only offered in the Fall, some in Spring, etc. Maybe not a problem at very large schools though!   Plus with co-ops it just doesn't pay off much in the long run, or imho, not as much as cranking up the math and science in high school would. 

 

On the other hand, we have friends who graduate and enroll all of their kids at the CC at 16 and they do just fine. :thumbup:

 

Also looking at the transfer requirements for engineering at one our our big state schools shows that the reqs for transfers are quite lengthy. I would make sure that you are looking directly at the engineering school pages of the school your ds intends to go to, cause gracious this looks complicated, lol.  http://www.engr.ncsu.edu/academics/undergrad/admission/transfer-requirements

 

hth,

Georgia

[elegantlion]

One thing I'd keep in mind is that engineering programs are very demanding in terms of credits. It is not uncommon for students to end up with 16 or 17 hours every semester and still be unable to graduate in four years and most of those are students coming in with some AP credit. So, for any student considering debating between dual enrollment conventional enrollment, I suggest looking at limits on financial aid and parent resources. Another option for a student who needs something part time would be to think about maybe completing some credits through CLEP if the school allows that.

 

At this point, he would probably do 2 years at my university, then transfer with the understanding it would take another 3-4 to complete his degree, probably 4. Because of my situation parent resources are not in the picture and he has an understanding that some debt would be acceptable. The school he is considering is very affordable comparatively.  I will be checking some CLEP credits to see what would transfer. 

 

Is his dad completely unwilling to pony up extra money for DE? Would he possibly pay for it directly? Some parents are jerks about child support stuff, and are more willing to pay directly for something when they would never consider giving the money directly to the custodial parent. 

 

Ex is very supportive of whatever educational decision ds and I make (probably one point we've always agreed upon). But for privacy's sake, I'll just say that he isn't able to contribute financially as he would like. 

 

I would second this and would also look at the actual course work involved.  At the dd's school, engineering is so tracked that having a 2 year degree doesn't really shorten the degree time as much as you might think, and certainly not by two full years. You have to take many of the courses in order and some are only offered in the Fall, some in Spring, etc. Maybe not a problem at very large schools though!   Plus with co-ops it just doesn't pay off much in the long run, or imho, not as much as cranking up the math and science in high school would. 

 

On the other hand, we have friends who graduate and enroll all of their kids at the CC at 16 and they do just fine. :thumbup:

 

Also looking at the transfer requirements for engineering at one our our big state schools shows that the reqs for transfers are quite lengthy. I would make sure that you are looking directly at the engineering school pages of the school your ds intends to go to, cause gracious this looks complicated, lol.  http://www.engr.ncsu.edu/academics/undergrad/admission/transfer-requirements

 

hth,

Georgia

 

That's one thing I'll be doing this weekend, comparing the transfer agreement to what he'd need to cover. My university has an advisor for kids who want to do just this (attend locally, then transfer), and they will help you tailor a program to prepare for your specific area of engineering. 

[elegantlion]

OMG, I just realized that would mark an end to my homeschooling career a year early. *begins to hyperventilate*  not quite ready to ponder that one. 

[Luckymama]

Oh wow :grouphug: *hands over paper bag*

[TechWife]

OMG, I just realized that would mark an end to my homeschooling career a year early. *begins to hyperventilate*  not quite ready to ponder that one. 

 

I'm not ready to ponder you ending a year early, either! I learn so much from your posts!

[vonfirmath]

I think I've asked before, but honestly I don't remember your response.   Is there any way that he could accompany you to college this year?  It would get him out of isolation, and even if classes aren't affordable, he could do his school work there.  You might even want to contact the honor societies and ask if any of their students would be willing to volunteer tutor him in his classes.  They often have to do service work anyway and this could be a great benefit for both.   He could spend time at the library, eat in the cafe with you, etc..   And even without taking classes, he'd be learning a bit about college life and navigating the campus and all.

 

It's not an easy decision to make.  After talking with your son, maybe both of you could meet with an advisor at your college and brainstorm a bit all together.

 

The summer after 9th grade, my dad was going to school at Texas A&M University, I was living with him and going to summer school (geometry) in the morning. After class, he picked me up and we spent the rest of the day on campus. I stayed in the library and read while he went to class then he studied (They had an awesome Science Fiction room only open 8a-5p!) while I did homework and read some more.  He carried a pager so I could page him if something went wrong and I needed him but it worked out fine.

 

[elegantlion]

The summer after 9th grade, my dad was going to school at Texas A&M University, I was living with him and going to summer school (geometry) in the morning. After class, he picked me up and we spent the rest of the day on campus. I stayed in the library and read while he went to class then he studied (They had an awesome Science Fiction room only open 8a-5p!) while I did homework and read some more.  He carried a pager so I could page him if something went wrong and I needed him but it worked out fine.

 

 

I'm not sure what the rules are about non-enrolled students hanging out on campus, I'll check with my advisor. I probably wouldn't take him this semester, but maybe next, depending upon what hours/days I have to be there. 

 

A consideration for engineering school is 'hands on' experience. It's a bonus if he could find work with a lawnmower/small engine repair shop, a computer repair shop, a car repair shop etc. if he doesn't have an opportunity at home to develop those skills.

 

He has enough electronic and computer parts to keep him happy, plus he helps with minor home repairs. He wants to build his own computer, not the duct tape and old parts way - he's done that recently with a few garage sale finds. He created a file server for school and configured an older laptop for the classroom. I need to crunch some numbers and see, but a computer would be an allowable educational expense, so he might get enough to build the computer he really wants. He's priced out the parts at multiple locations, still out of his and my budgets. Knowing he could afford the parts next fall might encourage him to study harder this year. Our lives have been so bare bones and chaotic that he really needs to see some of his goals accomplished, I think that would do his mental well-being a world of good. 

[elegantlion]

At 17, it did my lad a world of good to have a part time job.

Your lad might also consider a co-op program if he does end up going to engineering school.

 

Yeah, we've considered moving so he could more easily find a job, the pros of staying where we are right now are just too high to do that. It's a really complicated situation that easier not to try and explain. 

 

What do you mean by co-op? I'm only familiar with that term for homeschool co-ops. It might be the first cup of coffee syndrome too.  :lol:

[chiguirre]

Yeah, we've considered moving so he could more easily find a job, the pros of staying where we are right now are just too high to do that. It's a really complicated situation that easier not to try and explain. 

 

What do you mean by co-op? I'm only familiar with that term for homeschool co-ops. It might be the first cup of coffee syndrome too.  :lol:

Some engineering (a few business schools) combine work experience with academics. So you work for a semester and then work in your field for a semester (as an example, they might be shorter time periods). The university helps organize the experience.

 

For example, Kettering University offers this:

 

http://www.kettering.edu/experiential-learning

 

Jennifer in MI's son is starting there, so she might be able to tell you about it.

[elegantlion]

Some engineering (a few business schools) combine work experience with academics. So you work for a semester and then work in your field for a semester (as an example, they might be shorter time periods). The university helps organize the experience.

 

For example, Kettering University offers this:

 

http://www.kettering.edu/experiential-learning

 

Jennifer in MI's son is starting there, so she might be able to tell you about it.

 

Oh, okay. Like an internship. 

 

I just looked it up, it seems they have co-op and internships opportunities in both of the areas of engineering he is considering. 

[MarkT]

I know there are more considerations than financial, but I'm considering that aspect at this moment. 

 

Ds is working independently on the days I'm at school. Next year, I'll probably have to be at school 5 days a week. Right now I'm too tired to help on those days. I also am concerned about isolation, ds is a hermit as am I, and there are no academic outlets in our area except dual-enrollment. 

 

He could easily dual-enroll next year (senior year), yet it's discounted not free, still $95/credit hour, plus books. I can't afford to enroll him in more than 1 class probably. However, if I graduated him and enrolled him as a freshman, he'd receive aid. My school accepts everyone that breathes and pays. I receive a grant, a grant would cover his tuition for 9 or 12 hours a semester. Another however is that this is not the school he wants to attend, he's leaning toward engineering school. My university does have a transfer program, so he could do a year or two there then transfer (knowing that it'd take another 4-5 years to finish his BS). He's not at the ability to handle engineering school next year as he needs more time to firm up his math and physics and study skills. He could do that at my university.

 

 

Hard to make a full assessment without the complete picture. My only concern is that if he is wanting to pursue a STEM career he is behind taking Algebra 2 in "11th grade".  I can't recommend him starting college sooner. Maybe you could dual enroll the one class you can afford (science because of the lab part) and take some other classes online for free as DE like credits. There is so much free stuff out there these days. You could start a separate thread or two for particular free classes online and their quality.

 

[elegantlion]

Hard to make a full assessment without the complete picture. My only concern is that if he is wanting to pursue a STEM career he is behind taking Algebra 2 in "11th grade".  I can't recommend him starting college sooner. Maybe you could dual enroll the one class you can afford (science because of the lab part) and take some other classes online for free as DE like credits. There is so much free stuff out there these days. You could start a separate thread or two for particular free classes online and their quality.

 

 

Yeah, it's hard to convey the complete picture without violating board rules and my own sense of privacy and propriety. Since he wouldn't be at engineering school for probably two years, he'd have time to get his math up to speed. He would definitely be able to get through calculus at my school. I've printed off the engineering schools freshman engineering classes and will be going through to see what he could transfer in and where he'd need to be. My university doesn't really care about the transcript as much as the ACT score. We realize that this would probably mean 6 years of college total, instead of 4. That's part of the equation. 

 

We already utilize a fair amount of free resources online, I try to stay on top of what is being offered. Part of the issue is that if he stays home, he's really in a holding pattern. The free resources are great, but that doesn't come with the mentoring opportunities he could find at college. 

 

This isn't a decision I would make if our lives had gone according to plan. The plan fell apart, the chaos not of my making... *sigh* Obviously this is not an ideal choice for most kids wanting to attend engineering school, but getting him under the guidance of professors might be the best option, versus stumbling along with my crumbling status quo.

 

 

[Lori D.]

Two quick random thoughts:

 

1. SMART scholarship

Might be an option for additional aid when the federal aid and grant money ends. it is a work-for-tuition program, with the Federal gov't paying some/all tuition for STEM degrees, in exchange for several years of working for the military as a civilian in research areas. They also have paid summer internships.

 

2. Associate's degree ---> higher paying job ---> then college

This may or may not work in DS's favor, but esp. if he's not entirely sure what he wants to do, you might look at your CC and see if they have a GOOD Associate's program for a solid, desirable career field, esp. one that would help towards a future Engineering degree: CAD, computer programming, electronics, machinist/machine tool technology… He could get started on that next year at the CC, and in 2 years come out with an AAS and employability at a higher wage, plus knowledge that can aid towards a future degree. Most CC's do have federal aid and grants. BUT… the big IF here is if gettting an AAS would make him ineligible for federal aid for later attending a 4-year school...

 

 

Don't know if either would help, but they might be worth researching to see if either or both could be a helpful piece of the future puzzle. BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[elegantlion]

Two quick random thoughts:

 

1. SMART scholarship

Might be an option for additional aid when the federal aid and grant money ends. it is a work-for-tuition program, with the Federal gov't paying some/all tuition for STEM degrees, in exchange for several years of working for the military as a civilian in research areas. They also have paid summer internships.

 

2. Associate's degree ---> higher paying job ---> then college

This may or may not work in DS's favor, but esp. if he's not entirely sure what he wants to do, you might look at your CC and see if they have a GOOD Associate's program for a solid, desirable career field, esp. one that would help towards a future Engineering degree: CAD, computer programming, electronics, machinist/machine tool technology… He could get started on that next year at the CC, and in 2 years come out with an AAS and employability at a higher wage, plus knowledge that can aid towards a future degree. Most CC's do have federal aid and grants. BUT… the big IF here is if gettting an AAS would make him ineligible for federal aid for later attending a 4-year school...

 

 

Don't know if either would help, but they might be worth researching to see if either or both could be a helpful piece of the future puzzle. BEST of luck! Warmest regards, Lori D.

 

I'll share #1 with him. He's pretty much crossed out interest in the military - but he might consider it as a civilian. 

 

#2 probably wouldn't work for him as my university is really the only school in the area that offers any AA/AS beyond the basic degree. They only offer select degrees, none in computer related fields. With his lifestyle goals (living abroad) he's mostly likely going to need a BS or above to make that happen. He's also slower to develop momentum and I have this concern that if he doesn't keep moving forward with his education it will be harder for him to start later, laws of motion seem to applicable here. 

[MarkT]

Yeah, it's hard to convey the complete picture without violating board rules and my own sense of privacy and propriety. Since he wouldn't be at engineering school for probably two years, he'd have time to get his math up to speed. He would definitely be able to get through calculus at my school. I've printed off the engineering schools freshman engineering classes and will be going through to see what he could transfer in and where he'd need to be. My university doesn't really care about the transcript as much as the ACT score. We realize that this would probably mean 6 years of college total, instead of 4. That's part of the equation. 

 

We already utilize a fair amount of free resources online, I try to stay on top of what is being offered. Part of the issue is that if he stays home, he's really in a holding pattern. The free resources are great, but that doesn't come with the mentoring opportunities he could find at college. 

 

This isn't a decision I would make if our lives had gone according to plan. The plan fell apart, the chaos not of my making... *sigh* Obviously this is not an ideal choice for most kids wanting to attend engineering school, but getting him under the guidance of professors might be the best option, versus stumbling along with my crumbling status quo.

 

 

 

My concern is you are basing too much of your decision on the mentoring of professors.  I don't remember professors having a lot of time for this back in my day and it's probably not any better today.  Six years of college to get a BS may not look very good to the employer.  Being an Engineering manager, I would be wary to hire someone with what we consider remedial math at the college level. Of course I assume you can just send the Engineering school transcripts.

 

By doing the single true DE course your DS can get his toe in the water without diving in. It would give him the chance to experience some college life and make new friends. I suggested a lab science class because it is hard to get that experience online. I think Math online works just fine.

 

In the end, a self-motivated individual will be successful in life with the proper direction. This forum seems to have some very bright and kind folks on it so you can continue to seek help here such as evaluating courses before your DS takes them.

 

My life certainly isn't going to any plan I created!   One day at a time.

 

[Jilly]

In my opinion it is a great option especially because you are on such a tight budget and in school full time.

 

I left high school early, went to community college, and then transferred to a four year college with no problem. Of course I was in California, so it probably works differently, but there were many students who also took this path. I am assuming that in your area many students do the same? Also when I transferred no one asked about high school transcripts or scores on tests. The only thing that I had to show was my college transcript. I'm assuming it would be the same for your son. 

 

Good luck! I know how hard it is when you have to change your original plan due to life changes and finances. I have had to do the same many times.  

 

[elegantlion]

All of my children could have graduated a year early (so far and I'm assuming it will be the same for #5) but we did not. Though they could have graduated, they were not where I wanted them in terms of either music or math. Oldest wanted another year of orchestras and repertoire, and the others did not reach calc until their senior years. We were specifically warned NOT to graduate ds by the School of Mines guy--he said the he didn't care HOW many credits they came in with, that he only had money for freshmen, not transfer students. Ds only had a year of university calculus by the time he'd done 4 years of high school, which put him right in the middle of the incoming freshmen. The other reason that we did not graduate the children early was for Varsity sports. We do sports at the high school and they are not eligible if they've graduated. I warned a lady about that and she blew me off and, lo and behold, her dd did not play soccer her "senior" year. 

 

This engineering school has some scholarships for transfer students specifically, but yes, I'd need to research how much aid he could qualify for as a transfer. We are not against debt for school in a reasonable amount. 

 

1.My concern is you are basing too much of your decision on the mentoring of professors.  I don't remember professors having a lot of time for this back in my day and it's probably not any better today.  2. Six years of college to get a BS may not look very good to the employer.  Being an Engineering manager, I would be wary to hire someone with what we consider remedial math at the college level. Of course I assume you can just send the Engineering school transcripts.

 

By doing the single true DE course your DS can get his toe in the water without diving in. It would give him the chance to experience some college life and make new friends. I suggested a lab science class because it is hard to get that experience online. I think Math online works just fine.

 

3. In the end, a self-motivated individual will be successful in life with the proper direction. This forum seems to have some very bright and kind folks on it so you can continue to seek help here such as evaluating courses before your DS takes them.

 

My life certainly isn't going to any plan I created!   One day at a time.

 

 

As for #1, I'm not expecting someone to volunteer to take him under his/her wing. At this point, he has little to no access to professors. I am a humanities person and can no longer answer or direct his endless why & how questions. He's got great google foo, yet I think some of his questions are going undirected because he doesn't have the right person to even address the questions to. 

 

#2 - this would be a concern and a question to research. I still need to go through classes and see if might take him 5 or 6 years. Some will hinge upon his ACT score and what math he'd take freshman year. 

 

#3 - I agree, ds can be self-motivated and is in many areas. When I was a full-time homeschooling parent this was easier. I expected to outsource a bit and be there for guidance. Now, as a single parent and full time college student myself, I'm doing good to breathe on some days. I'm used to chaos for the most part, but this situation ...well, it's so far off plan I've fallen off the edge of the map. 

 

It's almost like he's standing outside this room that has access to knowledge that I can't give him. I go through the door every day, but he's left outside. Do I say because he's taking algebra II this year or that it might take him six years to graduate that he can't go through the door? Or do I open the door and allow him to step inside, knowing he could at least take an appropriate level math class from a professor that could answer his questions or that he could take chemistry with a good lab set up? I see that this atmosphere is something he will be ready for next year, yet knowing that because of this craptastic life situation that he had no part in creating he would be shuffled out of the opportunity because dual enrollment is not free here.

 

I truly hope any employer might not summarily dismiss a 6 year graduate, that perhaps they would seek to understand why. When they realize that a student was being resourceful in finding ways to increase their knowledge and progress even if it looked different that the average student, that perhaps they would see this as persevering in the face of adversity and being creative with their limited options.