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(Controversial content) a letter to girls in the pew in front of us...


Joanne
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I am not convinced she is a nasty person. I think she is just a very young person who doesn't necessarily have the gift (skill? habit?) of introspection.

 

She sounds very earnest and sincere and nothing but well intentioned.

 

She also sounds like she has a lot of growing up to do. Probably finishing her degree (she apparently has an AA so far) and having some children of her own will help her see things in more than one light.

 

I am sure a lot of us regret some of the stridency of our own views at ages 18-24? Probably though most of us haven't preserved our wincingly over confident views on blogs plastered with our own "modest" faces. The pitfalls of living online.

 

Exactly. I do think she is young and sincere. I do not believe she realizes how she comes off. She has been raised and trained to think in a certain manner and receives approval for that. She has been given a soapbox and encouraged, because she tows the line and is a good picture of the ideal pushed by certain people. I hope and pray she wakes up one day. I feel for the frustration and pain she may deal with when that day comes. It is sad to see all the way around. People are putting her in a position she should not be in...because it suits their own agenda.

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She was probably homeschooled.

 

But I wonder why the post on the yoga pants is so popular. And a top blog for women? Really?

 

ETA: but hey, for  24 year old she is quite successful. Good for her.

 

She was apparently NOMINATED for the Forbes list of top blogs for women.  I've no clue what the nomination process entails -- for all I know I could nominate myself. 

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So I went for my walk wearing yoga pants, and I was puzzled that no men were following me, eyes bugging out with yoga pant lust. And then I realised - duh - I wasn't wearing make-up. And the man-hating message that sent obviously defeated the come-hither of my pants.

I hope you learned a valuable lesson and won't let that happen again.

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Oh I am quite sure he'd have no end of things to critique should he ever wander into our little hive!

 

 

 

Of course we wanton women would surely send him running with all of these opinions and thoughts we have.

 

 

That and our awesome Happy Trampy Mommy Club tanks!

:lol: :lol: :lol:

 

And remember, ladies -- no bra straps should be showing from beneath the tanks, so obviously the "no bra" rule is in effect. ;)

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She was apparently NOMINATED for the Forbes list of top blogs for women.  I've no clue what the nomination process entails -- for all I know I could nominate myself. 

I am going to research this and nominate myself, then spam all my Facebook friends to vote for me, then write a wildly self-congratulatory and fake-humble blog post about how great my imaginary readers are and how loved I am by the public.

 Omg, this is going to be so fun.

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I am going to research this and nominate myself, then spam all my Facebook friends to vote for me, then write a wildly self-congratulatory and fake-humble blog post about how great my imaginary readers are and how loved I am by the public.

Omg, this is going to be so fun.

I hope you win!!! :hurray:

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I think Mr. M might be the man she's having an affair with?!?!  

 

It's definitely her husband, but I can't figure out which door she opened for him, breathlessly, in her forbidden yoga pants.

 

Maybe it was before they were married? And this is why she makes the point of showing they are not sleeping together, only cooking breakfast together.

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I am going to research this and nominate myself, then spam all my Facebook friends to vote for me, then write a wildly self-congratulatory and fake-humble blog post about how great my imaginary readers are and how loved I am by the public.

 Omg, this is going to be so fun.

 

You do realize that some bloggers consider that normal, expected behavior, right?

 

You might want to purchase some twitter followers while you're at it.

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It's definitely her husband, but I can't figure out which door she opened for him, breathlessly, in her forbidden yoga pants.

 

Maybe it was before they were married? And this is why she makes the point of showing they are not sleeping together, only cooking breakfast together.

I understood it was the bathroom/bedroom/dressing room door, but I also was under the impression they had been married for longer than a blink. Perhaps they were not yet married?

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I haven't read all the comments here, but read the initial article. As the mother of a teenage son, she can kiss my grits. I'm sick of the assumption that just because someone isn't a christian and just because they're a male of a certain age that somehow they will be delegated to life of lustful thoughts unable to control themselves because somehow a stray bra strap showing might lead them down the highway to hell. Gimme a break, sweetie. 

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You do realize that some bloggers consider that normal, expected behavior, right?

 

You might want to purchase some twitter followers while you're at it.

Yes, but I have never stooped quite that low. I don't get paid, so it's not worth the effort. 

 

I did write a post when I earned-did not purchase-the top Google hit. I was genuinely excited :D 

I now own the top three spots. I'm big time now. ;)

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Oh yes, what fun!!!! The Happy Trampy Mommy Club! Good times, good times.

 

As for the topic, I went off on a modesty police trooper the other day when she told me she was livid with a woman at her husband's place of work. He is the day manager of the milk parlor at an organic dairy. The female in qjestion is a woman who milks. The barn is hot, the work is hard. She wore a sleeveless wesern shirt to work.

 

Modesty trooper was having a fit because her poor hubby could hardly work because of this trollop's (her word, not mine) clothing choice. She said her husband was so distracted that he made some errors in his paperwork and got in trouble. I told her that if her husband was so freaked about a sleeveless top that he couldn't work, he needs processional help and not to let childen near until he had seen the psychiatrist! I am now on her naughty list.

 

I have zero patience for this crap!

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

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"The still present threat of remembering their image"--that of a woman working out in--gasp--workout attire.

 

Where are these pansy ass men from???

 

Oh my gosh- I wish I was drinking coffee or something so I could say I spit out my drink laughing at this one. :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

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This is true. Anything can be attractive to someone. Different strokes for different folks and all that. When I was a teenager, someone took some of my pictures that were on a social network and added them to a flickr collection for veil fetishists. There were guys who took a picture wearing full face covering and then added Muslim women and asked them for pictures of themselves (covered) because they got off on that. Very gross. But even on the nicer end of spectrum, a few men have stopped me and asked me about it and said they thought it was so attractive and loved the idea and wished their girlfriend/significant other would dress like I do so it really isn't as black and white as tank top and yoga pants = turns god-fearing men into howling dogs and modest clothes = respect and men won't find you attractive.

 

Yes, definitely, you're right. And sadly, it is often the women who are harshest to other women in these areas.

 

:grouphug:  So sorry for that.

 

And you are so right! I have always said if being covered head-to-toe stopped men there would be no crimes against women in cultures where they are covered up. And crazy enough, there have been ZERO swarms of raging out-of-control men unable to stop themselves at places like swimming pools, dance studios, and volleyball courts where in the USA, the unifrom is typically skin-tight and revealing. :glare:

 

And saddest of all is it is so many women and young ladies ranting against 'immodesty.' My girls are pretty middle-ground with their clothing- slightly more covered than typical for US teens, but not likey acceptable to "modest" people. You know what? Guys treat them like regular humans- they talk about anything from robotics to volleyball to school to cooking. Girls write passive-aggressive facebook posts about modesty and 'protecting their brothers in Christ.' :ack2: 

 

If my girls get invited to one more "Bible" study that is a thinly disguised Modesty Beating you will hear about me- I will make national news. :boxing_smiley:

 

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So wait...being thankful and praising young ladies who have chosen to dress modestly is now "slut shaming?" Get real?

I am quite "real". A significant and consistent voice in conservative religion (and even Western culture at large) equates sexuality, sexual interest, sexual thoughts and sexual attraction with "sin" and "lack of purity" and "tempting to men" and "disrespect to God."

 

Slut shaming is a "real" and known dynamic on the continuum of hate and judgment and hypocrisy.

 

The blog post linked in the OP was respectful of no one she named and revealed judgment and disrespect all around.

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I am not convinced she is a nasty person. I think she is just a very young person who doesn't necessarily have the gift (skill? habit?) of introspection.

 

She sounds very earnest and sincere and nothing but well intentioned.

 

She also sounds like she has a lot of growing up to do. Probably finishing her degree (she apparently has an AA so far) and having some children of her own will help her see things in more than one light.

 

I am sure a lot of us regret some of the stridency of our own views at ages 18-24? Probably though most of us haven't preserved our wincingly over confident views on blogs plastered with our own "modest" faces. The pitfalls of living online.

 

I agree and I feel a little sad for her.  She wears the "immodest clothing" she preaches against, which means she isn't necessarily against it, but she just wants other women to cover up so her husband won't look at them.  She is insecure, so she insults these immodest women to her husband so she looks better to him.  

 

I wonder how accurate that is.

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Hmmm. Yoga pants are the new slut wear? The things one learns from the modesty watches.

 

I am confused as to what the author thinks is modest clothing. In a video she has a fairly good scoop going on with the t-shirt. In one of the photos, she has shorts that are, well, short. But yoga pants are slutty?

 

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So am I. I swim in capri tights and a long sleeve rashguard :-)

 

 

Sex kitten. :glare:

 

;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

 

She must be.  Did you see her avatar?  Is that a half-naked tree in slutty panties doing cartwheels?

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I don't have daughters but I'm answering this anyway. :p (I have four sons.)

 

I grew up in the 70s and 80s in a small town that was heavily populated by conservative Christian denominations. Mainstream but conservative, I should say. Modesty for girls and women was a big deal, even at public school, but not as big a deal as I'm seeing in fundy organizations today and homeschool groups are the worst. I just point out my background to say that an emphasis on modesty was a major part of my upbringing, lest anybody think I don't know anything about it or never believed in it. I do, and I did. I don't hold this as a religious tenet anymore but I personally dress very modestly out of preference.

 

I think the misogynist music that is so popular and the control of girls' appearance in churches and homeschool groups are two sides of the same coin. I think both objectify girls to an alarming degree. Both teach them that they are only sex objects and their weakness and power are both directly related to the way men perceive their sexuality. The former leaves them thinking their only value is in seeming sexy to males. The latter hauls God and guilt into the equation.

 

What a terrifying scenario! Let's just create victims. Let's just let lights be blown out as we teach our girls to please all the people. :(

 

So if I had daughters, the first thing I'd do is jettison that coin. Beyonce's music and Ladies Against Feminism, thrown into the garbage, at the same time because they are the same thing.

 

The next thing I'd do would be to raise my girls to believe in themselves so that their self-worth doesn't hinge on whether they are sexy or whether they are buttoned up. I'd raise them to be pretty sure that nobody in their universe has any right to comment or to have an opinion on the topic. Girls would be in charge of their own bodies and their own clothing choices. Respect for dress codes for work and school -- yes, if they are reasonable and equal. Conformity to a wardrobe to please someone other than herself -- no. And help her find her voice to tell them all to jump in the lake, and the confidence to find better friends.

 

I'd be willing to risk some ridiculous concoctions by little girls or some indecency in big girls as they find their own way. I think that's part of the growing-up process. We live in a society where a girl can wear her underwear out in public and be mainstream about it, so there was never a better time to experiment. I'd remove my daughters from groups who judge creative expression in appearance, just as I removed my young sons from people who thought little boys ought to be silent and motionless all the time.

 

I hope I'd teach appropriate clothing for situations, from choosing less eye-popping ensembles for church to wearing swimsuits at the beach because that's appropriate. Swimsuits that fit and are comfortable based on body type and preference, which does mean that some girls need bikinis! Where do we wear bikinis? At the beach. Do we wear bikinis to Walmart? No. Are we sluts if we do wear them to Walmart? No, we just don't have much sense. That's not the same thing.

 

Thanks for listening to a rant from a mother of boys who is very concerned about the climate for girls today. I'm concerned about my daughters-in-law and my granddaughters. I want them to be strong, and good, and not judged by their sexiness quotient all the time.

 

:iagree: :hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

As a mom of all girls, THANK YOU!!!!!!

 

I'm guessing you don't hope for arranged marrieages for your sons? :glare:  Darn.  My girls will just have to meet decent young men like you're raising some other way. :leaving:

 

:biggrinjester:

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:ack2:

Ha. Just to clarify. She thought she'd started her period then realized in the dark, what looked like blood was mashed rose petals. Anyway the tone was utterly different than the letter being discussed here.

 

I think marital advice from someone who got married in February is probably not going to be that helpful for me because I'm at a different stage. But her tone was very different.

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Men and women alike would lose their minds if I wore one single stitch less. I am extreeeeeeemely attractive.

Best.ever.

 

As a mom of boys (now young men), perpetuating the idea that certain clothing worn by a woman diminishes their self-control, their intelligence and their accountability for their actions is insulting. I expect more.

 

As a mom of a young lady, the idea that she should be constantly vigilant in case some idiot judges her for wearing yoga pants (or running shorts, or her uniform tank top) is infuriating.

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It's definitely her husband, but I can't figure out which door she opened for him, breathlessly, in her forbidden yoga pants.

 

Maybe it was before they were married? And this is why she makes the point of showing they are not sleeping together, only cooking breakfast together.

 

 

Maybe they have separate bedrooms? I let my man come and go as I dress....not sure what newlywed shuts the door while dressing. At least, I didn't. Maybe she wants to keep the mystery alive...since he doesn't want to get his reward by seeing it?

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I'd like to let her know that I literally wear a burqa and it still doesn't exempt you from disrespect. Seriously, some people really are perverts. Even when I went to school and didn't cover my face but wore a headscarf and an abaya (long, loose dress), I heard someone discussing my appearance (in the context of being 'attractive) as he and another guy walked behind me. Teaching men to respect women regardless of what they're wearing would be far more productive.

It's the form fitting eye holes. Seriously, the guys can see the shape of your eyes and everything!

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Where does she live?  Maybe it's a regional thing?  If yoga pants are sexy and revealing then I shudder to think at the reputation of the moms I see picking up kids from the local elementary school.  It must be a special school for children who have mothers that are Ladies of the Night because they are all wearing yoga pants and sleeveless tops.  

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I am confused as to what the author thinks is modest clothing. In a video she has a fairly good scoop going on with the t-shirt. In one of the photos, she has shorts that are, well, short. But yoga pants are slutty?

 

Apparently, they are akin to being almost naked while working out, according to the esteemed Mr. M.

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It's the form fitting eye holes. Seriously, the guys can see the shape of your eyes and everything!

Not to mention that little skin around the eyes that shows, the fairness there against the blackness of the veil...jezebel!

 

 

Honestly, though, I always have a hard time excusing things on the age basis. I'm the same age as her (born in the same year) so it is difficult of me to give her a pass on that.

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After I read this article, I put on my compression capris tonight for my run... they are like yoga capris but skin tight and definitely one step up closer towards whoredom... I even wore a running tank that showed off my fabulous neon sports bra that was a coordinating color underneath... I then put in my fluorescent pink earbuds, cranked up the music and took off for my run... When I turned around at the one mile mark to run the mile back to my house, I was shocked to see nary a trail of drooling men nor any horrible car crashes piling up behind me. You know, the ear buds keep me from having to hear the audible lust coming from every man that drives by or sees me running down the street. Such a let down... I must up my game tomorrow evening.

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After I read this article, I put on my compression capris tonight for my run... they are like yoga capris but skin tight and definitely one step up closer towards whoredom... I even wore a running tank that showed off my fabulous neon sports bra that was a coordinating color underneath... I then put in my fluorescent pink earbuds, cranked up the music and took off for my run... When I turned around at the one mile mark to run the mile back to my house, I was shocked to see nary a trail of drooling men nor any horrible car crashes piling up behind me. You know, the ear buds keep me from having to hear the audible lust coming from every man that drives by or sees me running down the street. Such a let down... I must up my game tomorrow evening.

 

Shameful.  

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The girls most definitely cared about their appearance, because the letter specifically mentions:

 

 

How an observer judges whether they care "more about their relationship with God than their appearance" is very subjective. The writer happened to approve of whatever they were wearing. Another person's threshold might be such as to condemn makeup as unfitting vanity in church. Yet different religious persuasions might demand covered hair  - or head-to-toe coverings of the entire female form.

 

The point is that an outsider is judging them based on their outward appearance and her own personal standards, and is holding them responsible for a third person's behavior.

 

(And let's not even get started on equating beauty with being tall and thin)

 

This made me think of Shirin Ebadi's book about life in Iran after the Shah was overthrown. Ebadi was a professor and one of her female students got in trouble with the powers that be that were checking the female students' attire.  If I remember this correctly, the woman was entirely covered in black from head to toe, except for her highly suggestive pink socks.  I guess with pink socks, this woman was going start a stampede of male immorality.

 

I found this article on assault harassment in Egypt to be interesting. It would seem that a hijab is no more protection against harassment than are street clothes. It didn't make any difference if the women were veiled or not veiled.

 

Controlling standards of dress for women really has little to do with sexuality and everything to do with power.

 

Human beings are wired to find each other attractive. It's how we survive.  I am fairly sure if the girls at school are wore long dresses and covered their hair, my boys would find them more interesting than the other guys. If all it takes is pink socks, it doesn't take much. :tongue_smilie:

 

While I didn't find the letter to the girls in the pew to be terribly misogynistic, I did think it to be the work of a rather insecure and immature young woman.  Looks, both her own and that of others, seem to be very important to her.  In my experience, when a woman is judging the appearance of other women and especially under the guise of complimenting modesty, she is worried about the man in her own life straying and how she stacks up to the competition.  

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Maybe we are all raising our sons to realize that their mothers are The Perfect Woman. Therefore, when they see a woman walking down the street in yoga pants and a pony tail, they think she might make the Perfect Wife. No? Jumping to too many conclusions?

my DS said I was pretty today. Of course, he's only 7.

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After I read this article, I put on my compression capris tonight for my run... they are like yoga capris but skin tight and definitely one step up closer towards whoredom... I even wore a running tank that showed off my fabulous neon sports bra that was a coordinating color underneath... I then put in my fluorescent pink earbuds, cranked up the music and took off for my run... When I turned around at the one mile mark to run the mile back to my house, I was shocked to see nary a trail of drooling men nor any horrible car crashes piling up behind me. You know, the ear buds keep me from having to hear the audible lust coming from every man that drives by or sees me running down the street. Such a let down... I must up my game tomorrow evening.

You're missing the pony tail!
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I solved the mystery...I was reading the yoga pant thread (where to buy...) and apparently many of ya"ll are exercising in yoga pants without your panties on underneath! Shameful! No wonder the yoga pants have gotten a slutty reputation...women are actually naked underneath :scared: .

 

Now, if I were a man, I would need this smilie instead :drool5:      :lol:

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You're missing the pony tail!

 no, nope not missing it. It was there...it is black, glossy, long and hangs near my waist.. it is also a distraction for some poor male souls.. it swishes right at my waist..making their glance notice my curvy figure as a sashay past even more ***insert evil laughter***

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I solved the mystery...I was reading the yoga pant thread (where to buy...) and apparently many of ya"ll are exercising in yoga pants without your panties on underneath! Shameful! No wonder the yoga pants have gotten a slutty reputation...women are actually naked underneath :scared: .

 

Now, if I were a man, I would need this smilie instead :drool5:      :lol:

 

you caught me... I truly am a horrid creature...

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