Readers not "doers"

[kwg]

My ds11 loves to read about astronomy. Loves to watch shows on it. No interest in looking at stars. And the same is true for a bunch of stuff. He will read about mini weapons but not make them. He has no desire to do science kits (though he did like those when he was much younger). Etc.

 

Is this something I should be concerned about? I find it a little odd when his friends are building things and he is just.....reading LOL.

[regentrude]

No. Nothing to be concerned about.

 

Both my kids far preferred reading over projects and hands-on stuff; every attempt on my part to introduce a "cool" project was met with a groan: "Can't we just read about it in a book?" Some kids learn better on an abstract level; the hands-on stuff just serves as a pointless distraction.

 

I love reading about science and love doing math. I never in my life had the slightest desire to perform experiments, tinker, try out stuff. I also dislike crafting and building. I hated laboratories in college, whether intro or advanced.

 

I became a theoretical physicist.

 

[helena]

Great question! I look forward to keeping up with this thread. 

I definitely have a reader not a doer.

[OneStepAtATime]

I much preferred reading as a kid.  I thrived on it.  No worries.  Once I got older, I did find that some things were actually pretty cool hands on, not just through books.

[forty-two]

That was (and largely still is) me. Idk, I sort of feel a lack. There's something to be said for experiencing things firsthand instead of through a book. I've been reading Ten Ways to Kill Your Child's Imagination, and one of the things the author talks about is the value of direct experience and experimenting with *reality*. He's not anti-book, by any means, btw - but I totally substituted books for real life experience, and I don't think that was ideal, exactly. I remember being in honors physics, and though I was tops at doing the problems and such - and did understand the theory and could solve novel problems - I was flabbergasted at what some of the boys could do with the random bits and pieces of stuff in the room. For all that I liked science, I never played around with science - because I was too busy reading a book ;). And that showed in my complete inability to do practical things with my book knowledge - because I never *did* practical things, I never learned how to go about doing it.

 

(That's a bit of an exaggeration, because I actually did quite a bit of needlework, and that knowledge allowed me to pick up knitting and crocheting fairly fast as an adult, and I did my fair share of playing with ropes and such in trees and things of that nature. And tbh I remember that more fondly than 3/4 of the reading I did. Someone here has a siggie quote about children not remembering their best day of television - I *do* remember my best days of reading, but I remember more about my times playing outside with the neighbor kids. I read a lot of twaddle and idk if I consider that much different than watching TV.)

 

Now I am interested in all that practical knowledge I ignored as a kid, and maybe learning it now is as it should be, because now is when I care. Heck, I hated math manipulatives until I was in my 20s learning to teach math, because I thought they were pointless. And it wasn't till I was in my 30s that I realized that I learned to do math abstractly and never really formed a concrete sense of quantity (that's most of my learning in a nutshell, right there) and that playing with manipulatives and learning to really *feel* quantity in a concrete way is awfully valuable. I had no *idea* the depths of experiential knowledge out there, because I just skipped over it as a kid - didn't care. I see the same in my oldest dd. I got on just fine till now, and now that I care I am deepening my experiences of *concrete* reality, so maybe that's fine?

 

Eta: Idk - I didn't see all this as a kid and so I didn't care about it, so I didn't do it, so I didn't see it - it's rather circular. And I *wanted* to care about some of it - nature and such - only reality didn't really stack up well to book reality. It's so very similar to what the 10 Ways books say TV can do - make unreality seem more attractive than reality, in part by ensuring you never develop the skills to appreciate reality, because you are spending that time in unreality - and so reality is even more unpalatable at first glance, and unreality is so *easy*, so you go back to unreality. Books were, and are, my unreality. And that's had a lot of negative consequences.

[Farrar]

The world needs both.  I would make sure he has some exposure to doing as well for school especially as he gets older, but I wouldn't push it.  Play to his strengths.

[Ausmumof3]

Forty twos post pretty much summed up my whole life. I think any activity done to excess interferes with creating a balanced whole. But overall modern life is fairly compartmentalised so sometimes just working to your strengths can work too.

[jaderbee]

"But reading isn’t the opposite of doing; it’s the opposite of dying." -Will Schwalbe, author of The End Of Your Life Book Club

 

;)

[Alte Veste Academy]

I wouldn't be concerned if he mostly reads about stuff. I would be concerned if he literally only reads about all stuff. I think most people benefit from having personal hobbies. I don't think you have to do everything you read about, couldn't even if you tried, but I feel life would pass me by if all I ever did was read about everything without diving into any one thing.

[mommymonster]

I am very much a reader. I love the organization of books; how it is all black and white (even if the book is describing colors). I have long claimed reading as my hobby.

 

My children are very much hands-on doers. I blame my husband. He's one of those people that can turn bits and pieces into computers, musical instruments, and bikes. I'm trying to become a doer, but I find it all rather tiring.  :001_rolleyes:

 

It takes all kinds to make the world go around, I guess.

[Arcadia]

Just choose a job that suit his temperament when the time comes :) And make sure he knows basic car mechanics like how to jump start his car next time.

[kwg]

Thank you!  I appreciate all the responses!

[OneStepAtATime]

Just choose a job that suit his temperament when the time comes :) And make sure he knows basic car mechanics like how to jump start his car next time.

:iagree: And how to do simple repairs like using a screw driver for changing out switch plates and unclogging a toilet, etc, and how to cook, clean, etc.  Boy, it would have really saved me money and helped me a ton in my early years away from home if I had any clue at all about maintaining a car (or even what the stickers were for and that they expired), how to cook, and basic house maintenance.

[EmilyGF]

I'm going to disagree. You need to do as well as read. This could be narration, journaling, talking with others, or something else, but reading needs a response.

 

There are different types of doers. A theoretical physicist does a lot of equations, writes papers, solves math problems, writes tons of computer code (usually). They read a lot, yes, but they also do. A theoretical astrophysicist writes grants, gives talks, mentors students, writes codes, coordinates with non-theorists, etc, etc. 

 

So while "doing" doesn't need to mean getting hands dirty, effective reading needs some sort of response and product.

[EmilyGF]

You think so, for free reading too? Not-school reading I mean? For kids?

 

Ooh, is this only relevant to free time? Then, let him read whatever he wants.

 

I would caution, as someone who tends towards reading over doing, that for some people, the desire to read without doing can be because of fear of failure. I've personally experienced this and seen it play out in other peoples' lives. I think this is particularly relevant to bright kids who are afraid to take chances because they might not be the best. This may not be at all relevant to the OP's kid, but it is something to watch out for.

 

(Ask me why I only dabbled in electrical engineering and didn't major in it. Sigh.)

[strange_girl]

I am very much a reader and not a doer.

 

What turned out to be hard for me, after a childhood of prolific reading but not much doing was (as some posters upthread have mentioned) life's practical application, lol.

 

I had no idea how to take care of my car when I bought it.

I had no idea how to cook until I got married.

I have no idea how to handle basic household maintenance jobs.

I had no idea how to open or manage a bank account.

I had no idea what credit was or how to obtain it...everything I had I paid cash for.

 

Now, luckily, I have a wonderful (and very mechanical) husband, who either teaches me how to do things or does them for me. But I could have benefited a lot from some simple life skills training, beyond just reading about it. So DH and I have an agreement with our own children: I'll teach them the booklearning, and he will teach them the mechanical stuff. They should turn out pretty well rounded :wub:

[kwg]

hmmm.  Certainly things to think about.  

 

 For school I make him do narrations, writing, outlines, etc.  He does not like them  and has maintained since he was a small child that if I was so interested in knowing what it was about, why don't I just read it myself.  He views reading comprehension questions almost as a trust issue (I can't believe you think I didnt read it!).

 

 the situation that brought this up was that for years he has wanted to study Astronomy.  We have done a ton of reading and watching documentaries but it has been difficult to get to the local ametuer astronomy club for whatever reason. So when they were at the library presenting about the sun and then offering the use of a telescope I signed the kids up thinking "how cool".  Not interested, at.all. My 7 year old was.....the one I have to chase down and read nonfiction to while he is eating or in a bath, but not ds.  I just thought it odd- and was pretty irritated since he chose to sit in the shade and read instead of look in the telescope when we were right there.  

 

 

 

He is very much a perfectionist so you bring up a good point Emily.

 

Thank you for the lists of things to be sure to introduce!  I felt a little better tonight while he was helping fix the dishwasher.  Also, he did ask for a kit for his birthday.  I don't know why that makes me feel better, lol, but it does.

[forty-two]

 For school I make him do narrations, writing, outlines, etc.  He does not like them  and has maintained since he was a small child that if I was so interested in knowing what it was about, why don't I just read it myself.  He views reading comprehension questions almost as a trust issue (I can't believe you think I didnt read it!).

 

Interesting, because I *hated* reading comp questions as a kid - I mean, seriously *loathed*, despised with the passion of a thousand fiery suns kind of hate.  I'm still not really sure why, although I know the "writing the answer in a complete sentence" was insult to injury - I had this thing about writing the least amount of words possible to answer anything in elementary school, and having to make it a sentence added unnecessary words to the already bad assignment.  Interestingly, I'd not have minded nearly as much if it were a closed book test instead of an open book timewasting torture - the pressure of the test made the hard work of integrating my knowledge and putting it into words interesting instead of drudgery.  (This personality trait of mine, of external pressure adding interest to otherwise not that interesting or worthwhile work, contributed to a nasty, nasty procrastinating habit that ended up with me crashing and burning in college.)

 

Also, and possibly related, I've recently realized that I can't take notes effectively - determining necessary versus unnecessary details is still very much like hard work for me because I only do it on tests (or now, on forums ;)), when the pressure/worthwhileness makes it exhilarating instead of horribly hard drudge work.  (My memory and reading speed was such that I could just read the text twice and retain it perfectly well for the test, and do the thinking work of integrating all that during the test itself - I always learned a ton from taking tests, put together things I hadn't thought of before.)  I think I could stand going through the logic stage outlining of WTM - pick a book or two of mine that deserves that level of thought and have at it.  Because now I use the boards like I used to use tests - as an interesting reason for going to the hard work of thinking through what I've read.  (And narrating now, as an adult, is hard work - I only do it when I'm sufficiently invested in conveying that info to the other person, or in sorting it out in my own head - although I must say, narrating definitely fixes it in the memory wonderfully.)

 

Best guess as to why I hated reading comp questions is because I could comprehend just fine without them and that regurgitating just what the book said was pointless drudge work, because it required all the hard work of putting thoughts into words with none of the interest of trying to answer a question I didn't already know the answer to when I started.  Even now I hate to answer questions that require no original thought - if I'm not learning something new or doing something new with the info in my head, it's no fun.  Give me a good essay question any day - something with intrinsic interest - something that ends with me knowing more than I did when I started, if only because it required me to organize a corner of my overstuffed mind ;).

 

(And see, this is why I participate on WTM :).  When I started this post, I didn't really have a clue why I hated reading comp questions, other than they were "hard".  But they weren't hard because I didn't know the answer or that I hated writing in general.  But now, through the work of writing this post, I learned something new :).  And that makes the hard work of thinking worthwhile.)

[MEmama]

Following...this is totally my 11yo DS too. I worry about it sometimes (ok, often), but we've always joked he's destined to be a theoretical scientist. Based on these responses and experiences, maybe we aren't far off and I should come to peace with it. :)

[duckens]

 

kwg says:

My ds11 loves to read about astronomy. Loves to watch shows on it. No interest in looking at stars. And the same is true for a bunch of stuff. He will read about mini weapons but not make them. He has no desire to do science kits (though he did like those when he was much younger). Etc.

 

 

 

kwg says:

the situation that brought this up was that for years he has wanted to study Astronomy.  We have done a ton of reading and watching documentaries but it has been difficult to get to the local ametuer astronomy club for whatever reason. So when they were at the library presenting about the sun and then offering the use of a telescope I signed the kids up thinking "how cool".  Not interested, at.all.

Could it be that your child has a combination of being a perfectionist coupled with ambivalence of being with others (especially peers) and trying to master a new skill in front of others?

 

If you want your child to take the next step in astronomy, he may need a safe place, plus some incentive to do so.

 

I would:

1) Skip learning with peers.  There are other venues for him to be social.

 

2) Use the Star Gazers show on PBS for things to see in the night sky.  It's 5 minutes every week, and we tivo it.

 

3) Learn the constellations.  Chet Raymo's book 365 Starry Nights is a good intro to this.  It starts on January 1st, but you can start on the first of any month.

 

4) Buy a GREEN laser pointer.  This is the best color for pointing out constellations in the night sky. 

 

5) Make it clear that finding a certain number of things in the night sky is required for this year's schoolwork.  Give a specific list/number.  Make it a scavenger hunt that requires library research and a trip or two to the local astronomy club. 

 

For example, if your child needs to find the Horsehead Nebula, you may need to attend a star party and ask a local telescope owner to set it up for you to see on his/her telescope.

 

6) Offer a reward.  Perhaps he earns the laser pointer for his own once he completes the list.  Maybe he'd rather have a pizza party. Or money.  Or the new Disney DVD.  You know your child best.

 

7) Our local astronomy club usually has an hour-long astronomy topic; then a business meeting; THEN star gazing (if the weather allows).  This is too much for young children.  Email your local club beforehand to see tentative times for actual viewing.  They should accommodate you because kids are the future of any hobby.  Dress warmly, and if you take a flashlight, wrap the front in red cellophane.

 

The hope of all of this is some practical amateur astronomy.  Once you can find a few constellations, you don't suddenly "unknow" that.  Whenever you see stars, you try to identify the ones you know.  You learn a few more.  They're like potato chips!

[kwg]

Thank you so much duckens!  That looks perfect!!!

[birchbark]

I've got a reader vs. doer here. Took me several years to figure that out. I was buying DS all this "hands-on" school stuff because boys were supposed to like that. I couldn't understand why he considered it all just a nuisance. The lightbulb came on when I was reading about Myers-Briggs personality types. He's an N instead of an S. (So am I, BTW. :) ) Now I'm free to let him learn the way he does best, with just an occasional activity to give practice in practical application.

[Ad astra]

I'm definitely a reader. Even when I learned to play golf and chess and traveled overseas, the first thing I always did was to find a guide book. I much prefer a literature-based approach in everything, especially in teaching. Can't seem to be able to find such an elementary science curriculum so I'm thinking of just using library books. I hate art and craft, experiments and just anything hands-on. I don't know how I survived all those lab classes in the electrical engineering program at my univ, lol.

 

I honestly don't see a problem at all. Not everyone needs to be a doer IMO. I've learned so much through reading and that's what I enjoy. Your son will be fine, if not knowledgeable. :)

[kwg]

Reading these words again tonight  :lol:  :closedeyes:

[sewingmama]

I have the opposite problem here. My kids are doers rather then readers. They want me to get up every couple of pages and do or make whatever the book is talking about. I skip pages that have suggested activities because my kids will immediately jump up and start begging to do it and I just want to sit and read about it with no mess involved lol.

 

If I read them a book about planets suddenly they are asking to buy a telescope and stay up till midnight and go to the planatarium. Reading fiction is the same thing..I read the Boxcar children and before I got past the third chapter they wanted to know if it was possible to buy an old boxcar and then ran off to find a really big box to make their own to live in LOL.

 

It gets tiring.

[Seasider]

You know this persists into adulthood, right? I am a reader. My husband is a doer. It took him years to realize that my "doing via reading" isn't the same as laziness. He works with his hands, I work with my head.

[OneStepAtATime]

You know this persists into adulthood, right? I am a reader. My husband is a doer. It took him years to realize that my "doing via reading" isn't the same as laziness. He works with his hands, I work with my head.

:iagree:

[Dmmetler]

It may also be the wrong level of "doing". My DD loathed science kits and the little demonstration-type projects at the elementary level. But when she got the chance to do actual field work and research with working professionals and college/grad students, she was a transformed individual. And it was that experience, more than any other, that convinced her to go back and fill in the gaps, including lots of hands on practical lab work.

 

I do think that for her part of it is motor skills, and part of it is "I want to do it myself". Looking at slides when she knew what was already there wasn't interesting. Taking water samples because there are dead frogs in the pond and taking them back to the lab and running chemical tests and looking at them under the microscope, trying to sort out the various microorganisms and figure out what might be the cause, that was interesting.

[73349]

That's very true, kids can spot whether the "doing" is authentic or not.

 

I considered high school chem labs a complete waste of time, in that the teacher already knew the right answer. (IDK why I didn't have a problem with that in math.) In the same vein, reading comprehension questions tend to be too shallow. Some kids are just not going to play along.

[Guest allsizepro]

I have a couple readers too. We use a schedule that they can see what they have to get done before they can read. I schedule in reading time often.

Got mine at www.lovemyschedule.com. They have schedules and chore charts that are magnetic wet erase. Love mine! No fighting over doing their work now. They see what time it is and then go do it! Mine came in just a couple days by priority mail.

 

www.lovemyschedule.com

[kbutton]

I've got a reader vs. doer here. Took me several years to figure that out. I was buying DS all this "hands-on" school stuff because boys were supposed to like that. I couldn't understand why he considered it all just a nuisance. The lightbulb came on when I was reading about Myers-Briggs personality types. He's an N instead of an S. (So am I, BTW. :) ) Now I'm free to let him learn the way he does best, with just an occasional activity to give practice in practical application.

 

Yes, an N here too. Doing is for some things and not others, and I definitely need a good reason to expend the energy. If I understand something pretty well, I can find benefit in the hands-on experience to clarify something I've read, and at other times, it's totally unnecessary. Knitting is something I partially learned in person and partially from books. The people who taught/tried to teach me didn't have the same set of problems I had when learning and couldn't really speak to how to fix them. A book did that. I would not have been able to become a proficient knitter without both kinds of instruction, but truthfully, I've learned more about knitting from a book than from seeing someone knit.

 

If I had been taught hands-on stuff in a well-structured environment growing up, I would appreciate concrete learning more--my kids have some great opportunities for this that I did not have. My own experiences were more of the "sink or swim" and "hey, play with this" variety instead (with the exception of some good opportunities in college classes that involved real world work). DH with an S profile doesn't learn nearly as well unless he's doing. He makes N-like connections while experiencing whatever he's supposed to be learning, and then he can plug in more information from a book where it sticks mentally to the experience. Thankfully, in his field of expertise, the motto is "see one, do one, teach one." 

 

I think hands-on vs. book learning is ideally decided on a case-by-case basis. For instance, in any design industry, you can make a totally functional, beautiful product, but when you field test it, you find out that your users are dealing with a totally different set of circumstances, and your design is inappropriate. You don't obtain that data from reading or designing in isolation--you have to experience something in order to make good design decisions. In some cases, you have to make deliberate choices along the way to include or exclude certain variables that influence the end product. You really need real-life data for these sorts of things. 

[Reefgazer]

My kids are both readers.  Sometimes I feel guilty about not requiring more of them, but they both seem to retain a lot of info and keep their interests up just by reading.

My ds11 loves to read about astronomy. Loves to watch shows on it. No interest in looking at stars. And the same is true for a bunch of stuff. He will read about mini weapons but not make them. He has no desire to do science kits (though he did like those when he was much younger). Etc.

Is this something I should be concerned about? I find it a little odd when his friends are building things and he is just.....reading LOL.

 

[Mom22ns]

My oldest is a reader and not a doer. Not that he doesn't do anything, he does. However, if he wants to learn something, he learns by reading. Hands on learning is extremely ineffective. We still did hands on learning. I still insisted on science labs all the way through. I did recognize that those were mostly to say we had done them and to keep pushing him to broaden himself, and not for him to actually learn from. He can't learn if his body is in motion. It. does. not. happen. If he is to learn, he must be sitting: talking, reading, and writing are all choices, but reading is the most effective. Taking what he is reading about and trying to get him to "do" it is likely to take any joy out of it. For recreation, that seems wrong.

 

That said, ds is brilliant. His IQ tests, his ACT scores, his writing, they all show how ridiculously bright the kid is. He will have to choose work that fits him though. Being a reader and not a doer can be limiting. But, while we tried to help him expand his horizons, we never tried to change who he inherently is.

[Laura Corin]

Calvin is a reader.  He'd much rather read about history than go to visit a historical site.  His worst marks at school were always write-ups of experiments and field trips.

 

He is studying very book-based subjects at university.  He's doing fine.

 

L

[Soror]

 

That said, ds is brilliant. His IQ tests, his ACT scores, his writing, they all show how ridiculously bright the kid is. He will have to choose work that fits him though. Being a reader and not a doer can be limiting. But, while we tried to help him expand his horizons, we never tried to change who he inherently is.

Your quote reminded me of CS Lewis' autobiography, Surprised by Joy, evidently he was the same way. He was obviously able to make it work for him, the world needs some of both kinds of people and everything in between.