Any other 'invisible women' out there?

[Mrs. Darinski]

*Just a vent.*  Just needing to blow off some steam here.  Thanks for the space.  :rant:

 

The two men in this house, DH and DS, just don't seem to get it.  I am invisible to them unless there is no food on the table at mealtime or no clean underwear in their dresser drawers.  My voice, asking them to pick up after themselves, just cannot be heard.  My complaints to them, after tripping over their piles of crap, fall on deaf ears.  They live in their own little world and I don't seem to be a part of it.  My suggestions for activities we can do 'together' are either an intrusion or are ignored - it ends in misery with me wishing I had never bothered.  I am so tempted to get rid of all the games I bought thinking would could play them as a family.  They don't seem to need me.  They need a maid.  At least a maid gets paid and maybe even gets thanked and noticed once in a while.

 

Could always be worse, I know.  No time to dwell on it though.  Must go make supper.  Can't have them getting hungry now.  *sigh*  :banghead:

[Seasider]

Perhaps you need to go on strike.

[DragonFaerie]

I agree.  If they want food, they can fix it.  If they need clean underwear, they can wash it.  Unless they are incapacitated in some real way, they need to learn to take care of themselves.  I have no tolerance for that.

[marbel]

Perhaps you need to go on strike.

 

Yeah.  Start by taking yourself out to dinner tonight.  Leave them on their own.

 

Seriously, if it's as bad as it sounds you need to sit down with your husband and talk this out.  Your son is getting a skewed idea of how marriage should work.  And you are setting yourself up for a lot of resentment and bitterness.    Is it just the 3 of you in the family?  :grouphug:

[Amy in NH]

Do you have a spare room or space with a door you can close where you don't have to spend time?  You could always pick up the stuff they leave lying around the house, toss it in the room, and close the door.  My ex was a slob and when I got tired of picking up after him like a maid this is exactly what I did.  He didn't care and it made my life SO much easier to not be tripping over his stuff all the time.  And now he's my ex, so even better...

[fraidycat]

I agree that you should either go on strike, and/or make their stuff "disappear".

 

As an aspiring minimalist, the rule in my home is it only stays in the home if I WANT to expend my time and energy maintaining. That said, DH and kids have stuff, too. So if they don't want to take care of it, it becomes mine for a period of time, or forever.

 

Food - I gave up that job long ago. I cook if I want to. If not, they can help themselves. They're too dang picky, so they complain when I cook anyway - not DH, but kids. DH is rarely home for meals anyway.

[MercyA]

In another post, you identified as a conservative Christian.  With that in mind:

 

"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve." Colossians 3:23-24

 

"Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then,while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith." Galatians 6:9-10

 

"So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you." Colossians 3:12-13

 

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, and I say this with gentleness, but I really don't think you should complain about your husband on a public forum.  :grouphug:

[LucyStoner]

There are 7 days in a week. Your husband and son can take turns with you on cooking. Say 2 days each and then the 7th day is leftovers or take out.

 

I suspect that at least part of why it is is like this is because your son has never been taught any differently and your husband hasn't had to be an equal partner around the house.

[HRAAB]

JMO... That type of behavior is unacceptable and shouldn't be encouraged.  I especially feel this is doing your son a great disservice; his future wife will not thank you.  If my dh and children treated me that way, and I didn't do anything to stop it, then I'm partly responsible.  Honestly, I would tell them that it is wrong and give them fair warning -   I will no longer be your maid.  Then I would act on it.  They're most likely not going to change on their own, and you're going to need to take the first step.

[alef]

To be fair, I think my husband as a sole breadwinner sometimes feels his work is invisible and unappreciated. We all expect the money to keep coming n but we don't spend a lot of time taking special note of his efforts. I think everyone gets frustrated when it seems someone is taking them for granted.

 

OP, I second the recommendation to go do something for yourself.

[Catwoman]

*Just a vent.* Just needing to blow off some steam here. Thanks for the space. :rant:

 

The two men in this house, DH and DS, just don't seem to get it. I am invisible to them unless there is no food on the table at mealtime or no clean underwear in their dresser drawers. My voice, asking them to pick up after themselves, just cannot be heard. My complaints to them, after tripping over their piles of crap, fall on deaf ears. They live in their own little world and I don't seem to be a part of it. My suggestions for activities we can do 'together' are either an intrusion or are ignored - it ends in misery with me wishing I had never bothered. I am so tempted to get rid of all the games I bought thinking would could play them as a family. They don't seem to need me. They need a maid. At least a maid gets paid and maybe even gets thanked and noticed once in a while.

 

Could always be worse, I know. No time to dwell on it though. Must go make supper. Can't have them getting hungry now. *sigh* :banghead:

I know you're just venting, but venting to us isn't going to solve your problem. It's time for a long, serious conversation with your dh tonight after your ds goes to bed.

 

It seems abundantly clear that there needs to be some major change in the way your home is run, and that you need to be very specific about the problems you're facing and the changes that need to happen -- immediately.

 

You should also take some time to think about why you have allowed yourself to be treated in this manner, as I'm getting the feeling that this isn't a new problem. If you don't demand respect from your dh and ds, you're not going to get it. It's time to stand up for yourself and stop letting them treat you poorly.

[Aelwydd]

In another post, you identified as a conservative Christian. With that in mind:

 

"Whatever you do, do your work heartily, as for the Lord rather than for men,knowing that from the Lord you will receive the reward of the inheritance. It is the Lord Christ whom you serve." Colossians 3:23-24

 

"Let us not lose heart in doing good, for in due time we will reap if we do not grow weary. So then,while we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, and especially to those who are of the household of the faith." Galatians 6:9-10

 

"So, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience; bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you." Colossians 3:12-13

 

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, and I say this with gentleness, but I really don't think you should complain about your husband on a public forum. :grouphug:

Said with gentleness, I think it's rather harmful to advise someone being exploited to take joy or satisfaction in her circumstances. And to attach to it divine authority, as if God is complicit in her pain.

 

I agree with the reminder regarding sharing negativity about spouses on the board. But not with prescribing masochism. I may not be a conservative Christian, but I know most folks of that persuasion do not conflate those verses with advocating participation in one's own debasement.

[marbel]

To be fair, I think my husband as a sole breadwinner sometimes feels his work is invisible and unappreciated. We all expect the money to keep coming n but we don't spend a lot of time taking special note of his efforts. I think everyone gets frustrated when it seems someone is taking them for granted.

 

OP, I second the recommendation to go do something for yourself.

 

I agree with this.

 

OP, I feel for you, I really do.  Here's another :grouphug: .

 

My husband is sole breadwinner, so I do the bulk of the housework, cooking, etc.  I do prefer it that way because he is working hard for us.  But, he is sure to thank me for dinner, clean shirts, his packed lunch.  I thank him for going to work every day for us. 

 

He also makes sure our son sees him help sometimes, and the boy definitely has chores.  Our son isn't out working at a job every day, so he does help with laundry, dishes, and most importantly for me, yard work.  Neither of them leaves clothes all over the floor for me to deal with.  Well, the boy does, but he is reminded to pick them up - I don't pick up after him.

 

If I go out at night by myself or with our daughter, they are sure to do the dishes before they start playing Xbox or watching Netflix. 

 

We are a conservative Christian family.  I do see my husband as head of the house and I see our roles as different.  We are comfortable with our division of labor.  But I am still not his housekeeper.  A Christian man loves his wife as Christ loves the church; he does not leave her to do all the heavy lifting at home.  He participates in family activities that make her happy.  By his example he teaches his son how to be a good husband too.

[LucyStoner]

Said with gentleness, I think it's rather harmful to advise someone being exploited to take joy or satisfaction in her circumstances. And to attach to it divine authority, as if God is complicit in her pain.

 

I agree with the reminder regarding sharing negativity about spouses on the board. But not with prescribing masochism. I may not be a conservative Christian, but I know most folks of that persuasion do not conflate those verses with advocating participation in one's own debasement.

ITA.

 

The bible also says that men should love their wives as Christ loves the church and praise her for her work. And that children should honor their mothers. Treating someone so that they feel as the OP outlined isn't sacrificial love coming from the husband or honor from the son. I am not sensing that the OP is getting any of the praise and appreciation which the Proverbs 31 wife receives for example.

 

I do nearly all of the housework because my husband doesn't have time yet I don't mind a bit. Seriously, we have a totally traditional division of labor just now, except for the fact that I also work on the car and such. I am totally fine with it. It's because my kids help, my husband doesn't leave messes or treat me like a maid and because I know that I am appreciated. A little appreciation goes a long way to salve these sorts of feelings, as does an appropriate amount of help and an interest in spending time with each other.

[Aspasia]

Said with gentleness, I think it's rather harmful to advise someone being exploited to take joy or satisfaction in her circumstances. And to attach to it divine authority, as if God is complicit in her pain.

 

I agree with the reminder regarding sharing negativity about spouses on the board. But not with prescribing masochism. I may not be a conservative Christian, but I know most folks of that persuasion do not conflate those verses with advocating participation in one's own debasement.

I wish I could like this a thousand times.

 

Sometimes we need to get something off our chest, and venting to a bunch of strangers on the internet is much better than venting to a best friend or a sister, who know the husband and whose opinions of him could change because of the vent. We don't know this guy. No harm, no foul. I can't shame someone for looking for some virtual support when she feels alone in her real life.

[Catwoman]

I wish I could like this a thousand times.

 

Sometimes we need to get something off our chest, and venting to a bunch of strangers on the internet is much better than venting to a best friend or a sister, who know the husband and whose opinions of him could change because of the vent. We don't know this guy. No harm, no foul. I can't shame someone for looking for some virtual support when she feels alone in her real life.

I agree with you, but I also think it's even more important for her to discuss this with her dh.

 

She ended her post by saying she had to go make dinner for her dh and ds, which gave me the impression that she is resigned to her situation and that while she is resentful, she may also be accepting of the poor treatment she's receiving, and I find that very distressing.

[MercyA]

Said with gentleness, I think it's rather harmful to advise someone being exploited to take joy or satisfaction in her circumstances. And to attach to it divine authority, as if God is complicit in her pain.

 

I agree with the reminder regarding sharing negativity about spouses on the board. But not with prescribing masochism. I may not be a conservative Christian, but I know most folks of that persuasion do not conflate those verses with advocating participation in one's own debasement.

Is she "exploiting" her husband if she expects him to work and support the family, as I suspect he does?  Hopefully she expresses appreciation for all his hard work every day.  Should he do the same for her?  Of course, but venting on the internet isn't productive, or, I believe, Biblical.  If she has a problem with her husband, she should go directly to him, rather than complaining here.

 

The verses I quoted were written as encouragement and instruction for all Christians, in every circumstance.  I hope the OP took them in the spirit I intended.  It's not a dishonorable thing to serve others, even when you are not appreciated.

 

OP, I encourage you to pray about your situation, and then have a calm and respectful conversation with your husband tonight.  Take care.

[abba12]

I am a conservative christian who believes in patriarchy. so I get it. despite that, I think your situation is a bad one

 

conservative christians are quick to remember a wife must submit to her husband. but far fewer are the people who remember the second half of that scripture, that a man must love his wife. the second half is just as important and just as much a command as the first. so why do we push submission on wives but so often forget to push loving behavior on husbands? Your husband is not acting in a loving manner at all. if he won't listen to you about it, then you need a couple of people to help you confront him about the sin he is unrepentant of, the sin of not loving his wife as he should.

[shanvan]

 

We are a conservative Christian family.  I do see my husband as head of the house and I see our roles as different.  We are comfortable with our division of labor.  But I am still not his housekeeper.  A Christian man loves his wife as Christ loves the church; he does not leave her to do all the heavy lifting at home.  He participates in family activities that make her happy.  By his example he teaches his son how to be a good husband too.

Us too, CC family.  The verses listed in the post above apply to all Christians, including the OP's husband and son if they are professing Christians.  There is nothing wrong with her discussing the issue with her husband.  

 

OP, when I get to feeling like you describe I sometimes plan to do something for myself.  I have on occasion told Dh I was going out to Barnes and Noble with my mom or to the library by myself and that we had plenty of food in the fridge so they could fend for themselves for one night.  

 

Just last week I announced I had done enough dishes for one day and it was up to the 3 of them to figure out who would be doing the dishes.  Then I went to the bedroom with he cat and a book.  Dh has this idea that the kids might be scarred for life if they have to handle all of the dinner dishes.  They do morning dishes, but not pots and pans...horrors!    Anyway, last week I think I looked like life was really beating me up.  Ds said he was going to do all of the dishes and no one batted an eye at me retiring to my room with the cat.  I'm pretty sure Ds is well aware of the verses listed and I'm glad he is willing to carry them out when he can see I am in need of help.  We've had a very rough year and he's well aware of the toll it is taking on me, and on Dh.

[Mrs. Darinski]

Dear sweet ladies, thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses.  I so appreciated almost all of them ;) , and have definitely been able to take something away from each one.  Honestly, it has helped immensely to just 'get things off my chest', whether or not this be the best method/platform to do it.  The PP who mentioned venting to strangers to avoid IRL damage, you hit the nail on the head!  I have been feeling very lonely, and it was just too close for comfort to share IRL.  A huge 'thanks' to those of you that 'get that' and were non-judgmental about how it was done.

 

And yes, I do agree with the many concerns about needing to address the situation so positive change can result.  No doubt this is absolutely necessary.  And not just for DH and I, but for DS too!!  Some of it is me feeling a bit sorry for myself, but there are underlying issues that do need to be resolved - on both our parts.  DH is not perfect and neither am I, in case you hadn't noticed  ;) .  We are both stubborn in our own ways.  Thankfully, we are both works in progress.  And thankfully, God is good and can mend broken hearts.  I pray for His wisdom all the time and I trust that He will lead us through these rough waters.

 

Thanks again for listening!  I do appreciate it!  *Note to self: Be careful what you post.  You might just get answers you weren't expecting.   :) * 

 

 

[Catwoman]

Dear sweet ladies, thank you all so much for your thoughtful responses. I so appreciated almost all of them ;) , and have definitely been able to take something away from each one. Honestly, it has helped immensely to just 'get things off my chest', whether or not this be the best method/platform to do it. The PP who mentioned venting to strangers to avoid IRL damage, you hit the nail on the head! I have been feeling very lonely, and it was just too close for comfort to share IRL. A huge 'thanks' to those of you that 'get that' and were non-judgmental about how it was done.

 

And yes, I do agree with the many concerns about needing to address the situation so positive change can result. No doubt this is absolutely necessary. And not just for DH and I, but for DS too!! Some of it is me feeling a bit sorry for myself, but there are underlying issues that do need to be resolved - on both our parts. DH is not perfect and neither am I, in case you hadn't noticed ;) . We are both stubborn in our own ways. Thankfully, we are both works in progress. And thankfully, God is good and can mend broken hearts. I pray for His wisdom all the time and I trust that He will lead us through these rough waters.

 

Thanks again for listening! I do appreciate it! *Note to self: Be careful what you post. You might just get answers you weren't expecting. :) *

I just wanted to commend you on your incredibly gracious response to all who posted here. So many people start threads and then get incredibly rude and defensive when a few people post things they didn't want to hear, but your reply was absolutely lovely.

 

I hope everything works out with your dh and your ds. I don't know you very well, but judging by your posts here, you deserve only the utmost respect and the finest treatment.

[lmrich]

Get a pair of crutches.

 

I had three ankle surgeries. Dh and the kids are capable. Yours are too. You are valuable and worth a lot.

[maize]

I did one semester of a master's degree program, taking classes in the evenings. It put a lot of strain on the whole family and after that one semester dh and I decided it was just not the time for me to be pursuing further education. BUT one huge unexpected blessing came out of that time. Previously, dh would come home from work and disappear into the bedroom to rest, he pretty much did nothing at home either in the way of household tasks or child care. We had several small children and I never got a break. When I was in school, he learned from necessity to come home from work and take care of the children in the evening--feed them dinner, read to them, etc.. After I quit going to school he continued to help out in the evenings after work. It was really an amazing transformation, worth much more to me than the degree I didn't finish. I think sometimes it takes a major departure from the status quo to get people to reevaluate roles and relationships and inspire real changes.

[Elisabet1]

I would not have made supper under those conditions. They would KNOW I am here. 

 

((hugs))

 

You need to speak up! They can't read your mind, even if you scream it. I think it is best to be quiet, but resolved. Show in your actions. Actions generally speak louder than words. State that you cannot possibly make dinner because no one did the dishes or cleaned the table. Then sit back and wait for them to clean before you cook. You need to learn to not look (or smell) at the kitchen. They will clean it eventually. And you should not attempt to criticize or micromanage when they finally do. It can take a while, but, you need to be firm.

[Elisabet1]

I don't think OP was really complaining about her husband. The complaint is a common one. And, it is not like she is posting her real name or his. Not like she is sharing intimate secrets. It is better to share things like this and look to ways to improve ones marriage, than to end up in divorce.

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Aelwydd]

Is she "exploiting" her husband if she expects him to work and support the family, as I suspect he does? Hopefully she expresses appreciation for all his hard work every day. Should he do the same for her? Of course, but venting on the internet isn't productive, or, I believe, Biblical. If she has a problem with her husband, she should go directly to him, rather than complaining here.

 

 

More assumptions and negative judgment here.

 

Mercy, I have been the SAHM and the one responsible for cooking, cleaning, and taking care of my ds from birth to 5 years.

 

I am now the sole wage earner in our family. Having played both roles, and even when I had times of frustration, I was not subjected to the kind of indifference that the OP described.

 

Feeling used and objectified and ignored by one's spouse is not a typical or healthy situation, regardless of who is scrubbing toilets and who is punching a timecard. I would not respond to someone sharing these types of thoughts as though they are likely guilty of the same.

 

If we're going to get Biblical about suffering, I would present Job and his accusers. I would like to point out that Job was blamed and accused for his suffering by pious people who felt that he had no basis for complaint. It was their position that Job had somehow brought these terrible sufferings upon himself, and that he was therefore guilty of some sin. In the end, God was quite pissed about their terrible counsel.

 

Another example is the blind man whom Jesus's disciples assumed must have been stricken due to sin, somewhere. They assumed bad things only happen to those who are deserving in some way. Jesus's answer was peculiarly like God's answer to Job's "comforters." To wit: people do not always suffer through causes of their own, or due to sin somewhere; suffering in God's creation also exists to bring His good to light. It is a distinct contrast.

 

 

All that's to say, of course we all are imperfect and make mistakes. But I think it's wise not to make equivalencies in the OP's case, that she is suspected of committing similar acts of sin against her dh and ds to be treated this way.

 

Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar. And sometimes, a hurting person is just that, someone who's been harmed through no cause or fault of her own, with no justification or sin to account for it on part of her actions.

 

I am not a "conservative Christian" so OP, may discount this as you like. I think it is unhealthy to think of yourself as expendable or insignificant to your family. I think it is unhealthy and wrong of them to treat you so callously. I am not a fan of punishments of trying to even the score, like taking a week to refuse to cook and making them fend for themselves.

 

It feels like a satisfying response, but I doubt the lesson would last long or even produce understanding or charity.

 

I would suggest couple's therapy. And perhaps a campaign of modeling behavior. In other words, when asking ds to pick up his laundry, say "I will help you out," and thereby turn it into a shared task. Thank him for his help afterwards.

 

With dh, when he is doing some task that is normally his alone-maybe it's doing taxes, or doing lawn work-ask him if you can work with him. Even if it's as simple as compiling some forms. Then tell him you appreciate his help.

 

When you are cooking, engage dh in conversation. Ask him to come sit and chat about his day. While listening, interject with a "Oh, can you reach that pot for me? Thanks, Honey, I love how tall you are!" And resume discussion. Ask for other little helps like that. Grabbing the eggs, giving the pan a quick stir while you retrieve something from the pantry. Thank him for his help with dinner.

 

DH and I work like this. Often, we will have coffee or a glass of wine together while one cooks, and the other performs little tasks to help. We thank each other afterwards. We use that time as a bonding moment.

 

Now, if dh and ds flatly refuse to participate in doing anything like I described, then unfortunately, you are in a difficult place. Such intransigence really indicates a total lack of respect for you, and indicates poor treatment will not change. And if that is the case, all the good modeling and attempts to engage them in your home will not induce change in them. So, you will have to figure out how to preserve your own emotional health.

 

In your case, I might take an extended retreat, to heal myself and to give dh time to figure out what it is he really wants in a wife. Is it someone to share his thoughts and feelings with? Someone to help him along the way? Someone to raise his child? Someone to be a maid?

 

And you need to find your own answers to what are your needs, your non-negotiables, your limits. Do not simply say, oh, we discussed all this before wr got married. Marriage, and life, itself, often changes people's priorities. Sometimes radically.

 

So, you deserve to know how the present reality stands with your dh. Again, I strongly recommend couple's therapy to give you someone to both guide you through the process, and keep you honest with youselves and each other.

 

Best wishes to you.

[scrapbookbuzz]

 

I'm sorry you're having a hard time, and I say this with gentleness, but I really don't think you should complain about your husband on a public forum.  :grouphug:

 

 

This isn't exactly a 'public' forum as most of us don't really have any idea what her real identity is. Consider it a semi-private forum. Thus her comfort in stating at the beginning of her post that she just need to rant (aka vent). Maybe she doesn't have anyone close with whom she can share her frustrations. She didn't ask for advice or seek encouragement for doing degrading things to her family. She simply need to vent somewhere. She's already feeling belittled and disrespected at home, she doesn't need it here. Don't get me wrong, those Scripture verses are great . . . but they would have a better effect coming from someone she knows personally than a practical stranger.

 

To the OP, vent away! But I also agree that sometimes, in order to 'wake up' those around us, we have to do something radically different. There is nothing wrong with you going on strike for a few days, maybe a week! To one of the previous posters, my kids get all sorts of picky too often, too, and my husband is often not at home for dinner, either, due to work. I liked the suggestion of only cooking if you want to and if not, just have food on hand to which they can help themselves!

[MercyA]

More assumptions and negative judgment here.

...

Feeling used and objectified and ignored by one's spouse is not a typical or healthy situation, regardless of who is scrubbing toilets and who is punching a timecard. I would not respond to someone sharing these types of thoughts as though they are likely guilty of the same.

....

To wit: people do not always suffer through causes of their own, or due to sin somewhere; suffering in God's creation also exists to bring His good to light. It is a distinct contrast.

 

All that's to say, of course we all are imperfect and make mistakes. But I think it's wise not to make equivalencies in the OP's case, that she is suspected of committing similar acts of sin against her dh and ds to be treated this way.

 

Thank you for your thoughts, Aelwydd.  Of course the OP's husband should express love and appreciation towards her; I never suggested otherwise.  It may well be that OP is blameless in this situation, but we have only one side of the story.  I do think that when we find ourselves harshly judging our spouse, it can be helpful to take a step back and examine ourselves as well. 

 

Your examples from the Bible are good ones.  Certainly people often suffer through no fault of their own. That is precisely why I posted the verses I did, to encourage the OP to find satisfaction in serving Christ, even when she is unappreciated by others, and to encourage her to forgive those who may have wronged her.

[Mommyfaithe]

To be fair, I think my husband as a sole breadwinner sometimes feels his work is invisible and unappreciated. We all expect the money to keep coming n but we don't spend a lot of time taking special note of his efforts. I think everyone gets frustrated when it seems someone is taking them for granted.

 

OP, I second the recommendation to go do something for yourself.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!!!!!!

[MercyA]

Just a reminder that the forum guidelines do state:

 

No Spouse Bashing:  The Internet (and this site in particular) is not the appropriate place to complain about your husband (or wife) or to ask for marital counseling. Call a friend instead.

[marbel]

<snip>

I am not a "conservative Christian" so OP, may discount this as you like. I think it is unhealthy to think of yourself as expendable or insignificant to your family. I think it is unhealthy and wrong of them to treat you so callously. I am not a fan of punishments of trying to even the score, like taking a week to refuse to cook and making them fend for themselves.

 

It feels like a satisfying response, but I doubt the lesson would last long or even produce understanding or charity.

 

<snip>

 

I like this whole post, but especially this.   I was one who suggested taking the night off.  But it is true that suddenly deciding to go on strike after going along with the status quo for a long time isn't such a great idea.  It turns the striker into the bad guy, and is likely to end up backfiring - the men fend for themselves and leave a huge mess, for example.  And everyone's surprised and angry.

 

I'd start out with some talking about the need for help and the message your son is getting by not lifting a finger around the house.  Outline the chores you want your son to do and enlist your husband in backing you up on enforcing it (since the boy is likely to be surprised and reluctant to help, perhaps even outright refusing).   Even if your husband never comes around to helping, you will be training your son and getting help from him.  Start training him now. 

 

Then I'd suggest you start planning an outing for yourself every now and then.  Put it on the calendar.  Ask your husband and son what they'd like to do for dinner that night. Once a week may be too much at first, or maybe not.   I typically leave something cooked simply because by the time my husband gets home from work, it's just too late for him to start messing with cooking.  In nice weather I leave something to grill.  Set your expectations for kitchen cleanup. 

 

Another thing about talking to someone IRL - it is nice to be able to vent to an anonymous group of people.  If you need real help, though, and if you belong to a church (it sounds like you do), maybe there is a trustworthy woman you can speak to.   Elders' wives should be a good resource for this (assuming your church is set up that way). 

[Elisabet1]

I do not think she is spouse bashing. She focused on herself and how she felt. She said he does this or that..but that both her husband and son do not clean or help, just expect meals. She never said she hated him, nor did she make the tacky male-hater remarks we hear so often on FB and such. I think her post was a very productive one, on a very real problem that many women face in marriage. She bought up a problem. She did not spouse bash. 

[jrn]

I'd like to thank the op and responders to this post.  I am in a slightly similar situation and the thoughtful replies will help me to make a change for the better in my household.

[LucyStoner]

MercyA- you might want to reflect on why it seems so important to you to remonstrate the OP. You made your point yet most people don't see this as bashing and you keep coming back to, however gently, hammer in your point. Why does it matter so much to you? She is clearly not coming from a hateful place and she needs a little boost to seek the changes her family needs. Why keep posting that she is wrong, especially after her most gracious update?

[MercyA]

MercyA- you might want to reflect on why it seems so important to you to remonstrate the OP. You made your point yet most people don't see this as bashing and you keep coming back to, however gently, hammer in your point. Why does it matter so much to you? She is clearly not coming from a hateful place and she needs a little boost to seek the changes her family needs. Why keep posting that she is wrong, especially after her most gracious update?

 

Katie, I wasn't planning on posting again, but wanted to respond to this.  Aside from my original post (which was intended to be edifying), I also responded twice to Aelwydd, who twice quoted and criticized me.  My only other message, regarding the forum guidelines, was intended mainly to be a response to scrapbookbuzz, who also quoted me and then wrote, "To the OP, vent away!"  I should have quoted scrapbookbuzz in that post and afterwards regretted not doing so, as I thought my comment might be misinterpreted.  Because the OP is new here, I wouldn't have expected her to be familiar with that particular forum rule.  Peace!

[LucyStoner]

I didn't see Aelwydd's posts as criticizing you so much as providing a different theological POV. The verses you selected to share focused only on the OP and you omitted any mention of many things in the bible that apply to the husband and son and ignored the larger issue. This isnt about whistling while you work. the OP described feeling ignored and disregarded and having a family who wasn't taking any interest in spending time with her. Who would want to be a wife and mother and do family drudge work when they aren't being treated like a wife and mother and a valued member of the family? When someone asks for help do you find yourself usually taking up the other side and telling them to suck it up? I agree that we must look within first but I also think that people don't do themselves any good by letting themselves be taken for granted or used.

[Mrs. Darinski]

Eeek!  I started another reply and then it disappeared!  Grrr!!!  I'll try again.  ;)

 

So, I started by saying, to be fair, I did use the word 'crap'.  :rolleyes:   It slipped out...on purpose...  I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to be offensive.

 

I wanted to refer those that may not have read it, to my reply in post #21.  I really am thankful for your responses and am very grateful for those taking the time to care enough to respond.  I am especially thankful for those that heard me out, but, er, encouraged me to move beyond this place and take action to begin resolving issues.  You were so right!  I can see it even better today than I could yesterday.  Thank you for the 'nudge', which I have also heard described as, 'the right foot of encouragement'.  ;)

 

And for those that listened non-judgmentally to my painful outburst, I do appreciate it!  While I do agree that we need to choose our words wisely, sometimes, when you are hurting, and it seems like there is no where else to turn, you just need a safe place to vent a little.  Not to bash, just to let off steam.  Get some fresh perspective for the journey ahead.  Pointing fingers, on the other hand, and telling people how they ought to or ought not to respond here on this forum, within reason, just compounds the injury and impedes the healing.  Hopefully, such people will find only grace extended to them should they ever be in need of it.  Thanks ever so much to the majority of you that offered compassion with a healthy dose of advice and encouragement!

 

And can I give you a little update for today?  This morning started out kind of bleak.  After my second church service today, a sweet lady I know gave me a hug and asked if everything was O.K.  Well, I started blubbering just a bit, being the female that I am, but we were both able to share some of our similar struggles and strategies for overcoming them.  It was truly helpful.

 

And do you know what DH said to DS on the way home?  He told DS that they were going to work together to make the lunch!  And so they did!  Woot!  And, they cleaned up afterward!  Maybe it isn't quite the way I would have done it, but that is O.K.  They took a step.  I have many I need to take too, but baby steps are O.K.!  (And I put supper in the crock pot earlier this morning, so none of us have to worry about cooking supper!  Yay!!)  DH and I do still need to have a serious talk, but it will come.  It must come.  We certainly do have a lot to discuss.  I want to move from this place and become 'healthier' for my sake and for the sake of my family.  I don't think anyone warned me that being a grown-up would be so tricky!

 

Can I thank you all once again for lending an ear to a complete stranger?  Keep up the great work!  And let's all try to be excellent to each other, especially here, there, and everywhere.

 

 

 

 

[MercyA]

I didn't see Aelwydd's posts as criticizing you so much as providing a different theological POV. The way you presented your verses omitted any mention of things that apply to the husband and son and ignored the larger issue. this isnt about whistling while you work. the OP described feeling ignored and disregarded and having a family who wasn't taking any interest in spending time with her. Who would want to be a wife and mother and do family drudge work when they aren't being treated like a wife and mother and a valued member of the family? When someone asks for help do you find yourself usually taking up the other side and telling them to suck it up? I agree that we must look within first but I also think that people don't do themselves any good by letting themselves be taken for granted or used.

Had Aelwydd's comments been made directly to you, you may have perceived them a little differently. ;)

 

I wasn't responding to the OP's husband or son; I was responding to her. If they had posted public complaints about their wife and mother, then I may well have brought up Scripture regarding the duties of husbands and sons.

 

I can't make a blanket statement about how I usually respond to requests for help. Feel free to look through my previous posts on this forum. I pray that I always respond with wisdom and according to the need of the moment, but I am far from perfect. Clearly many took issue with my responses in this thread; still, I hope the OP found something helpful in them.

 

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

[LucyStoner]

Awesome update OP! You are clearly not embittered or selfish about these changes and that is great.

Definitely letting others do things their way, so long as they do them and help, is a good lesson to learn. I am sure one reason I am so happy with my home situation is that neither my husband or I think there is only one right way to do something in the house. A lunch is a lunch. A folded towel is a folded towel.

I am happy for you.

[Catwoman]

I think people are coming down a bit too hard on MercyA.

 

I'll be the first one to admit that my advice to Mrs Darinski was quite different from Mercy's, but I appreciate her perspective because I am absolutely sure that her heart is in the right place, and that she was trying her best to be helpful.

 

Part of what makes this forum so great is that there are so many people with different backgrounds and beliefs, and while I can't speak for Mrs Darinski, I know that when I ask for advice, I sometimes learn more from the people who approach the issue from a completely different perspective, than from the ones who think the same way I usually do.

 

Again, I really think MercyA was trying to encourage Mrs Darinski, not discourage her, even if some of us got a different impression.

[MercyA]

I'll be the first one to admit that my advice to Mrs Darinski was quite different from Mercy's, but I appreciate her perspective because I am absolutely sure that her heart is in the right place, and that she was trying her best to be helpful.

Thank you, Cat.  I appreciate that very much.

 

[LucyStoner]

No one has come down any harder on Mercy than she has come down on the OP. If you offer critique, you need to be prepared to be critiqued, especially on matters that are highly subjective. While I am more than sure Mercy means more than well and wants nothing more than to help, I am not alone in finding that interpretation potentially harmful to people in the same situation as the OP. I am also quite sure that the OP benefited more from other posts based on her own replies. Meaning well is great but people are allowed to present alternate beliefs and interpretations.

[abba12]

I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked OP! I hope youre not letting the argument here discourage you

 

I'm glad to hear your update and you'll be in my prayers. I've seen women who were in your position 10 or 20 years ago, but unlike you, they did nothing to change the circumstance and I am sad to see them resigned to such treatment today with no attempt, or even desire, to improve things.

 

I'm fortunate in some ways. due to severe morning sickness I have gone on a complete and involuntary 'strike' from all physical tasks for a few months every couple of years since getting married! Not a nice situation for anyone, least of all me, id much rather not be so ill! But it had meant my husband could never take my work for granted. I'm sure some of you would cringe to imagine the state of house and kitchen if you were completely bedbound with no older kids to help! He has gotten a lot better since the first time, he and the kids even ate real food most nights this time lol.

 

I don't think I can go as far as to say I am lucky for my situation and what lead to it :) but I know my husbands attitude and what he has learned about roles and what I do has helped us immensely. I agree just going on strike is a bad idea, but would your husband be open to taking on, with ds, your responsibilities for a set time, maybe a month, to help everyone understand (maybe you can trade a task he hates?). use the time to teach ds how to do things. after a month I'm sure both would be glad to relinquish responsibilities! but it might have more lasting impact than an emotionally based cleaning strike. it sounds extreme, but so does your situation imo. maybe something drastic would at least make both dh and ds realize this isn't just an emotional woman thing.

 

of course this would need to be in conjunction with multiple serious talks about the deeper issues

[Aelwydd]

Eeek! I started another reply and then it disappeared! Grrr!!! I'll try again. ;)

 

So, I started by saying, to be fair, I did use the word 'crap'. :rolleyes: It slipped out...on purpose... I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be offensive.

 

I wanted to refer those that may not have read it, to my reply in post #21. I really am thankful for your responses and am very grateful for those taking the time to care enough to respond. I am especially thankful for those that heard me out, but, er, encouraged me to move beyond this place and take action to begin resolving issues. You were so right! I can see it even better today than I could yesterday. Thank you for the 'nudge', which I have also heard described as, 'the right foot of encouragement'. ;)

 

And for those that listened non-judgmentally to my painful outburst, I do appreciate it! While I do agree that we need to choose our words wisely, sometimes, when you are hurting, and it seems like there is no where else to turn, you just need a safe place to vent a little. Not to bash, just to let off steam. Get some fresh perspective for the journey ahead. Pointing fingers, on the other hand, and telling people how they ought to or ought not to respond here on this forum, within reason, just compounds the injury and impedes the healing. Hopefully, such people will find only grace extended to them should they ever be in need of it. Thanks ever so much to the majority of you that offered compassion with a healthy dose of advice and encouragement!

 

And can I give you a little update for today? This morning started out kind of bleak. After my second church service today, a sweet lady I know gave me a hug and asked if everything was O.K. Well, I started blubbering just a bit, being the female that I am, but we were both able to share some of our similar struggles and strategies for overcoming them. It was truly helpful.

 

And do you know what DH said to DS on the way home? He told DS that they were going to work together to make the lunch! And so they did! Woot! And, they cleaned up afterward! Maybe it isn't quite the way I would have done it, but that is O.K. They took a step. I have many I need to take too, but baby steps are O.K.! (And I put supper in the crock pot earlier this morning, so none of us have to worry about cooking supper! Yay!!) DH and I do still need to have a serious talk, but it will come. It must come. We certainly do have a lot to discuss. I want to move from this place and become 'healthier' for my sake and for the sake of my family. I don't think anyone warned me that being a grown-up would be so tricky!

 

Can I thank you all once again for lending an ear to a complete stranger? Keep up the great work! And let's all try to be excellent to each other, especially here, there, and everywhere.

OP, I'm relieved that your family is being responsive to you, and taking small steps forward. That's the key to making big changes--one little course correction at a time. ;)

 

I apologize for the distraction caused by my disagreement with Mercy on your thread; really, I should have just expressed my support. I do understand the need to get things off your chest, so to speak.

 

I hope you continue to work to improve things with your family!

[Elisabet1]

Eeek!  I started another reply and then it disappeared!  Grrr!!!  I'll try again.  ;)

 

So, I started by saying, to be fair, I did use the word 'crap'.  :rolleyes:   It slipped out...on purpose...  I'm sorry.  I didn't mean to be offensive.

 

I wanted to refer those that may not have read it, to my reply in post #21.  I really am thankful for your responses and am very grateful for those taking the time to care enough to respond.  I am especially thankful for those that heard me out, but, er, encouraged me to move beyond this place and take action to begin resolving issues.  You were so right!  I can see it even better today than I could yesterday.  Thank you for the 'nudge', which I have also heard described as, 'the right foot of encouragement'.  ;)

 

And for those that listened non-judgmentally to my painful outburst, I do appreciate it!  While I do agree that we need to choose our words wisely, sometimes, when you are hurting, and it seems like there is no where else to turn, you just need a safe place to vent a little.  Not to bash, just to let off steam.  Get some fresh perspective for the journey ahead.  Pointing fingers, on the other hand, and telling people how they ought to or ought not to respond here on this forum, within reason, just compounds the injury and impedes the healing.  Hopefully, such people will find only grace extended to them should they ever be in need of it.  Thanks ever so much to the majority of you that offered compassion with a healthy dose of advice and encouragement!

 

And can I give you a little update for today?  This morning started out kind of bleak.  After my second church service today, a sweet lady I know gave me a hug and asked if everything was O.K.  Well, I started blubbering just a bit, being the female that I am, but we were both able to share some of our similar struggles and strategies for overcoming them.  It was truly helpful.

 

And do you know what DH said to DS on the way home?  He told DS that they were going to work together to make the lunch!  And so they did!  Woot!  And, they cleaned up afterward!  Maybe it isn't quite the way I would have done it, but that is O.K.  They took a step.  I have many I need to take too, but baby steps are O.K.!  (And I put supper in the crock pot earlier this morning, so none of us have to worry about cooking supper!  Yay!!)  DH and I do still need to have a serious talk, but it will come.  It must come.  We certainly do have a lot to discuss.  I want to move from this place and become 'healthier' for my sake and for the sake of my family.  I don't think anyone warned me that being a grown-up would be so tricky!

 

Can I thank you all once again for lending an ear to a complete stranger?  Keep up the great work!  And let's all try to be excellent to each other, especially here, there, and everywhere.

"crap" is only a foul word in some parts of the country. I often have to try to remember which parts when I speak to people, because I live in the south (bad word here) but am from a part of the country where it is not a bad word (a state in the midwest). I also lived in CA and MN in between, and cannot recall if it is a bad word there. It almost makes for an interesting linguistics study. So, I guess I had to comment on that.

[juelle]

OP, the Boundaries books (Cloud and Townsend) have been helpful to me. And therefore to our family  :001_smile: