Malaysia Airlines flight missing

[PrincessMommy]

I just heard on the radio that they are looking at the possibility that the plane's computer system was controlled by an outside source, and that Boeing had been looking into/addressing this problem with their planes since 2012.  It was a quick blurb on the radio, and I haven't seen much more about this theory.

 

Has anyone else heard this, or is my news radio station donning a tinfoil hat here?

 

Ye,s I heard it a day or so ago as well.  I can't remember the source though and I don't remember how plausible the report made it seem.

[Lanny]

This video is 5 minutes and 14 seconds in duration. It gives a good explanation about Transponders and Radar, etc. and the problems involved in trying to locate this aircraft.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/3357656448001/what-radar-shows-when-tracking-transoceanic-flights/#sp=show-clips

 

That some of the surviving family members are threatening a hunger strike is tragic. They are under enormous stress and if they do that it will not speed up this process. 

 

I read yesterday that in Israel they are taking what measures they can, to try to defend against a 9/11 type attack from Iran. It is very possible the aircraft is in Iran.

[Mrs Mungo]

http://www.businessinsider.com/malaysia-plane-fire-2014-3

[Amy in NH]

Can you stand yet another theory?  If so...

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

 

I was just checking in to see if this article had been shared here.  It is the most plausible explanation I have seen, with solid reasoning from an experienced pilot.

[Colleen]

Can you stand yet another theory?  If so...

 

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2014/03/mh370-electrical-fire/

 

Have to roll my eyes when people theorize with such certainty, e.g. "[this] confirms to me", "looking elsewhere is pointless", and best of all, "there is no point in speculating further" (once he's done speculating, presumably).  As well, his assertion that climbing to 45,000 feet in an effort to quell the fire is "an acceptable scenario" reveals that he knows nothing more about flying a 777 than does the average Joe or Jane.

[Amy in NH]

[sNIP]

 

his assertion that climbing to 45,000 feet in an effort to quell the fire is "an acceptable scenario" reveals that he knows nothing more about flying a 777 than does the average Joe or Jane.

 

And you know this how? 

 

I think it's plausible that the lack of oxygen at 45,000 feet could be a factor in quelling a fire.

[Pawz4me]

If you follow the link in the "update" section of that article, there are quotes from two experienced 777 pilots explaining the flaws in that theory.

 

Also, as I understand it there are all sorts of smoke/heat detectors (including in the wheel well) that should go off to alert the pilots long before smoke in the cockpit becomes a problem, and the plane has built in fire extinguishers that are supposed to go off automatically.  And if the ACARS system was functioning properly, it would have sent automatic reports at the very first sign of unusual smoke or heat.  Which this one apparently did not.

[PrincessMommy]

In my mind a hijacking/terrorist plot seems less and less likely.  I don't think they'd sit on something like this for 10 days before acting.  They know the whole world is looking for this airplane and they've completely lost the element of surprise.    It just doesn't make sense.  Sadly, I'm beginning to think it's somewhere in the Pacific.  I hope we find the plane some day so we can have some answers and the families can have closure.  This must be awful for them.

[MariannNOVA]

Have to roll my eyes when people theorize with such certainty, e.g. "[this] confirms to me", "looking elsewhere is pointless", and best of all, "there is no point in speculating further" (once he's done speculating, presumably). As well, his assertion that climbing to 45,000 feet in an effort to quell the fire is "an acceptable scenario" reveals that he knows nothing more about flying a 777 than does the average Joe or Jane.

As someone said today: "Speculation is a guess wearing lingerie."

[Guest submarines]

In my mind a hijacking/terrorist plot seems less and less likely.  I don't think they'd sit on something like this for 10 days before acting.  They know the whole world is looking for this airplane and they've completely lost the element of surprise.    It just doesn't make sense.  Sadly, I'm beginning to think it's somewhere in the Pacific.  I hope we find the plane some day so we can have some answers and the families can have closure.  This must be awful for them.

 

From what I've been reading it seems it is likely was a hijacking, but it didn't go as planned. I too think that the plane is somewhere in the ocean, but this doesn't meant it wasn't hijacked. No one would want to claim a failed attempt, especially if they plan on replicating it in the future.

[Word Nerd]

From what I've been reading it seems it is likely was a hijacking, but it didn't go as planned. I too think that the plane is somewhere in the ocean, but this doesn't meant it wasn't hijacked. No one would want to claim a failed attempt, especially if they plan on replicating it in the future.

I agree.

[busymama7]

I could buy this scenario, also. I think there is a real possibility that flight 370 was double-doomed.

The only thing I can imagine is a flight 93 kind of scenario. The chances of a hijacked plane ALSO coincidently having catastrophic issues to bring it down just seem so statistically impossible. I mean what is the chance of that?

 

I'm wondering if it some kind of cover up at this point. Someone shot it down (unidentified in their airspace) and doesn't want to admit it.

 

I don't know. It's all so confusing. And I am completely hung up and fascinated by the whole thing. I hope it is resolved soon. Those poor families :(

[mathnerd]

According to investigators, the flight's computer that controls the path between waypoints had been re-programmed with a new path. This indicates that someone on board altered the original flight plan and input a series of new paths for the plane to follow. These paths are made of code words and they have to first be put into a computer "scratchpad" (rough draft), verified and then comitted to the flight computer and only the pilots and copilots are able to do so. These procedures are hard for a layman to follow (and these codes are known by navigators and pilots). So, I think that the flight was sabotaged and there was no electrical fire.

 

Now, there have been reports of sightings of this flight from the Maldives. The flight was very low (flying as low as 500 ft to avoid radar detection according to many news sources) that people came out of their houses to check what the loud noise was about. A big plane is bound to have attracted attention somewhere, sometime. I am sure that more witnesses will come forward. Plane sighting:  http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/flight-mh370-residents-on-remote-island-in-maldives-saw-jet-matching-missing-malaysia-airlines-planes-description-4640688/

 

[fraidycat]

According to investigators, the flight's computer that controls the path between waypoints had been re-programmed with a new path. This indicates that someone on board altered the original flight plan and input a series of new paths for the plane to follow. These paths are made of code words and they have to first be put into a computer "scratchpad" (rough draft), verified and then comitted to the flight computer and only the pilots and copilots are able to do so. These procedures are hard for a layman to follow (and these codes are known by navigators and pilots). So, I think that the flight was sabotaged and there was no electrical fire.

 

Now, there have been reports of sightings of this flight from the Maldives. The flight was very low (flying as low as 500 ft to avoid radar detection according to many news sources) that people came out of their houses to check what the loud noise was about. A big plane is bound to have attracted attention somewhere, sometime. I am sure that more witnesses will come forward. Plane sighting: http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/flight-mh370-residents-on-remote-island-in-maldives-saw-jet-matching-missing-malaysia-airlines-planes-description-4640688/

This is interesting. And begs the question, where would it be headed to in a southeast direction, besides open water? And just how much fuel was actually on board? It is my understanding they only put enough fuel for the flight plus a little more for unexpected detours or holding pattern situations. At the beginning of this mess, I thought I read they had approx. 8 hours worth of fuel. But, if the pilot(s) are at the helm of this, perhaps the tanks were "as far around the world as we can get" full? I have zero understanding of what oversight for fueling procedures are in the aviation industry or who calls the truck to "fill 'er up." Pilot? Ground crew? Back office bean counters?

[mathnerd]

I have zero understanding of what oversight for fueling procedures are in the aviation industry or who calls the truck to "fill 'er up." Pilot? Ground crew? Back office bean counters?

There has been a theory for that too - that there were "sleeper cells" of terrorists amongst the ground crew and they filled the plane tank with fuel even though officially there was supposed to be 8 hours flying worth of fuel.

[Mrs Mungo]

According to investigators, the flight's computer that controls the path between waypoints had been re-programmed with a new path. This indicates that someone on board altered the original flight plan and input a series of new paths for the plane to follow. These paths are made of code words and they have to first be put into a computer "scratchpad" (rough draft), verified and then comitted to the flight computer and only the pilots and copilots are able to do so. These procedures are hard for a layman to follow (and these codes are known by navigators and pilots). So, I think that the flight was sabotaged and there was no electrical fire.

 

The article that I posted said that if there was a problem, then the pilots would have re-programmed the plane to make for the nearest point that they could land. But, the problems could have incapacitated the pilots and the plane could have kept flying on its own for a while before crashing into the ocean.

[Lanny]

According to investigators, the flight's computer that controls the path between waypoints had been re-programmed with a new path. This indicates that someone on board altered the original flight plan and input a series of new paths for the plane to follow. These paths are made of code words and they have to first be put into a computer "scratchpad" (rough draft), verified and then comitted to the flight computer and only the pilots and copilots are able to do so. These procedures are hard for a layman to follow (and these codes are known by navigators and pilots). So, I think that the flight was sabotaged and there was no electrical fire.

 

Now, there have been reports of sightings of this flight from the Maldives. The flight was very low (flying as low as 500 ft to avoid radar detection according to many news sources) that people came out of their houses to check what the loud noise was about. A big plane is bound to have attracted attention somewhere, sometime. I am sure that more witnesses will come forward. Plane sighting:  http://metro.co.uk/2014/03/18/flight-mh370-residents-on-remote-island-in-maldives-saw-jet-matching-missing-malaysia-airlines-planes-description-4640688/

 

Yes. On this video, they are reporting that the ACARS reported the last time (it reports every 30 minutes) that they were on a new course. I believe that was at  107 A.M.  At 119 A.M., 12 minutes after that ACARS report, the co pilot (?), on the radio, told the Malaysian Controller, "all right, good night".

 

Here is the link to the video:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/19/malaysia-airlines-search-cockpit-checked-in-12-minutes-after-course-was/

 

So, the FMS (Flight Management System) was either programmed for the route this aircraft actually took, with the deviation from the normal flight path to their scheduled destination; before the  flight departed from KL, or shortly after their departure from KL...

 

It would be difficult, maybe impossible, for one of the pilots to change the FMS, without the other one knowing about the change.

 

Also, apparently  Thai radar had picked up a flight that may have been this flight, but did not report it early on, because Malaysian authorities had not requested them to check their data. 

[Pawz4me]

The article that I posted said that if there was a problem, then the pilots would have re-programmed the plane to make for the nearest point that they could land. But, the problems could have incapacitated the pilots and the plane could have kept flying on its own for a while before crashing into the ocean.

 

But according to what Malaysia is saying the plane didn't continue to fly a straight heading.  It changed course several times to follow the way points.  If it flew straight (or reasonably straight) then I could maybe see a fire or some other event where the pilots had programmed a heading and the plane continued to fly in that direction after the pilots were incapacitated.  But changing directions to follow all the way points, if that's really what the plane did, doesn't seem to fit with that scenario.

[Word Nerd]

The only thing I can imagine is a flight 93 kind of scenario. The chances of a hijacked plane ALSO coincidently having catastrophic issues to bring it down just seem so statistically impossible. I mean what is the chance of that?

If what went wrong was due to human error, it wouldn't be a coincidence. 9/11 wasn't statistically likely either, yet it happened.

[Amy in NH]

But according to what Malaysia is saying the plane didn't continue to fly a straight heading.  It changed course several times to follow the way points.  If it flew straight (or reasonably straight) then I could maybe see a fire or some other event where the pilots had programmed a heading and the plane continued to fly in that direction after the pilots were incapacitated.  But changing directions to follow all the way points, if that's really what the plane did, doesn't seem to fit with that scenario.

 

Autopilot

 

[ktgrok]

"as well as deep and remote oceans." 

 

I just watched a video on FoxNews.com It was an interview with a Retired USAF Colonel.  There was a lot of discussion about the door of the 777 Cockpit and the Jump seat(s) within the cockpit.  It would take an explosive device to open that door, from outside the cockpit and that explosion would destroy the aircraft.

 

So, it would seem at this time, these are the options about what happened:

(1) The Pilot or CoPilot was involved in this

(2) There was someone else in the Cockpit, who was trained in how to fly a 777 and possibly that person had been riding, with permission, in a jump seat. That person may or may not have been on the manifest. Either a "dead heading" crew member or someone on the passenger list.

(3) Someone was allowed access to the cockpit

 

I have ridden, in the cockpit, of Civil Turbojet aircraft, on Ferry flights and also on Scheduled flights within the USA and I was on the manifest, in either situation. That was on  U.S. flag airlines.

 

Let us hope, that if this is the case, that the airline has knowledge about *every* person who was aboard the aircraft when it departed from KL.

 

I tend to agree with the conclusion of the Retired USAF Colonel, that probably the aircraft is at the bottom of a "deep and remote ocean."   I pray that is not  the case here. For the sake of the innocent people who were aboard the aircraft and their families.

 

I worked on the DFDAC for the Boeing 747-400 mentioned in this Boeing article. You can read about what a Flight Data Recorder is designed to do, on this Boeing web page:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_02/textonly/s01txt.html

 

Notice that there is special mention of the 777 and that which  Flight Data Recorder is installed in a 777  depends upon the production date of the aircraft. 

 

Or, there was a malfunction, so they turned to head back to the airport they started at. Before they got there they lost pressure/oxygen, and all died, and the plane flew until it ran out of fuel and crashed. 

[ktgrok]

Yes. On this video, they are reporting that the ACARS reported the last time (it reports every 30 minutes) that they were on a new course. I believe that was at  107 A.M.  At 119 A.M., 12 minutes after that ACARS report, the co pilot (?), on the radio, told the Malaysian Controller, "all right, good night".

 

Here is the link to the video:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/03/19/malaysia-airlines-search-cockpit-checked-in-12-minutes-after-course-was/

 

So, the FMS (Flight Management System) was either programmed for the route this aircraft actually took, with the deviation from the normal flight path to their scheduled destination; before the  flight departed from KL, or shortly after their departure from KL...

 

It would be difficult, maybe impossible, for one of the pilots to change the FMS, without the other one knowing about the change.

 

Also, apparently  Thai radar had picked up a flight that may have been this flight, but did not report it early on, because Malaysian authorities had not requested them to check their data. 

 

Malaysia is now saying that they don't know if the automatic transponder was off before or after the pilot said that. He might have said that, then had a malfunction and reprogrammed the computer. 

[ktgrok]

The article that I posted said that if there was a problem, then the pilots would have re-programmed the plane to make for the nearest point that they could land. But, the problems could have incapacitated the pilots and the plane could have kept flying on its own for a while before crashing into the ocean.

exactly. That they used the computer to program a new path isn't really even news. It's really the only reasonable plane to turn a plane of that magnitude according to the experts I heard yesterday. So we knew it turned, and it was already assumed it was done by using the computer. The scenario Mrs. Mungo lists is the most logica one. 

[Pawz4me]

Autopilot

 

 

The autopilot was pre-programmed, in an emergency situation, to follow all those way points?  I thought the theory here was that it was programmed to go straight toward the closest airport?  I don't think it can be both.

 

Plus I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around the fact that (1) if the ACARS was working properly -- and I'm pretty sure they know at the beginning of the flight it was -- that it wouldn't have transmitted some data that gave some hint or clue that something was wrong before it became non-functional and (2) that the pilots knew for 12 minutes that something was wrong (and it was something severe enough to incapacitate them in a relatively short time) and they didn't say a thing to ATC.

[FaithManor]

I can't make my tablet copy the link properly, so you'll need to go to www.bbc.com and click on news at the top then scroll down. There is a report that Chinese relatives were manhandled, literally dragged, away from reporters at the daily briefing today. Jonah Fischer, the BBC correspondent said he faced a wall of police when attempting to approach some of the relatives. This hurts my heart! So much pain already and then to be abused too...

 

Apparently, one of the simulations deleted from the pilot's home simulator was a flight plan to Maldives. If that turns out to be confirmed, this will lend credence to those witnesses that said a jet of similar description flew over at very low altitude.

 

It is all so bizarre.

[MBM]

It was a flight plan to the island of Diego Garcia, just south of the Maldives. A US naval base is there? If it flew nearby, that would jibe with what the residents from the Maldives saw. Is Diego Garcia still occupied by the US or anyone else?

 

Supposedly, he had other flight plans around that area as well as Sri Lanka and India. I don't know if that would be all that uncommon, though.

 

Has anyone read anything about the pilot's family? Are they still in Malaysia?

[sassenach]

I read Alive first and yes, it was terrifying. So much so that I had to confirm the terror by reading Parrado's book as a follow-up. I was in an Uruguay phase after picking them to do well in the 2010 World Cup. ;)

Side note: I've missed seeing you around here! Probably because you're the type of lady who has a Uraguay phase. And no one applies the word "bombastic" more effectively than you.

[MariannNOVA]

It was a flight plan to the island of Diego Garcia, just south of the Maldives. A US naval base is there? If it flew nearby, that would jibe with what the residents from the Maldives saw. Is Diego Garcia still occupied by the US or anyone else?

 

Supposedly, he had other flight plans around that area as well as Sri Lanka and India. I don't know if that would be all that uncommon, though.

 

Has anyone read anything about the pilot's family? Are they still in Malaysia?

I heard yesterday that the Captain's family left their home on Saturday prior to the police search. I did not hear any information indicating where they had gone.

[Pawz4me]

It was a flight plan to the island of Diego Garcia, just south of the Maldives. A US naval base is there? If it flew nearby, that would jibe with what the residents from the Maldives saw. Is Diego Garcia still occupied by the US or anyone else?

 

At the daily White House briefing yesterday afternoon, Jay Carney was asked about the possibility of the plane having passed in the vicinity of Diego Garcia.  He said no while giving a little laugh and shake of his head.  Of course the take-away was no way could it have been in the area w/o the U.S. knowing.

 

(I'm just relaying that info -- I don't know a thing about Diego Garcia or anything the U.S. has there or not.)

[DawnM]

Well, whew.......mystery solved......Courtney Love has found the plane.

 

http://www.refinery29.com/2014/03/64600/courtney-love-found-malaysia-airlines-flight-370

[Mrs Mungo]

Kind of arrogant for Jay Carney to shake his head and imply someone couldn't get past Deigo Garcia. About 12 years ago some pretty clever hijackers got training and were able to fly US planes into buildings without the government knowing beforehand.

 

Deigo Garcia has a US Navy base there.

There is an enormous difference between knowing what *will* happen and knowing what *has* happened. I don't think there is any way a plane was near Diego Garcia or Manas or any other US asset without the US knowing. We lived on a US base in Europe when 9/11 happened. Our security was ramped up *before* 9/11 because of the embassy bombings. Overseas bases are generally on higher alert because they are at higher risk due to not being in the US.

[FaithManor]

  

Well, whew.......mystery solved......Courtney Love has found the plane.

 

http://www.refinery29.com/2014/03/64600/courtney-love-found-malaysia-airlines-flight-370

:huh:  :smash:  :tongue_smilie:

[Lanny]

Malaysia is now saying that they don't know if the automatic transponder was off before or after the pilot said that. He might have said that, then had a malfunction and reprogrammed the computer. 

 

The ACARS reported, for the last time, 12 minutes before the co pilot told the Malaysian Controller, "all right, good night", after the Controller informed the crew that they were leaving Malaysian air space and entering Vietnamese air space. The ACARS system, 12 minutes before that last radio conversation, reported that the aircraft had turned to a new heading. 

 

The FMS (Flight Management System) was either programmed to make that change in  course, before departure from KL or shortly after takeoff...     

 

I don't know how long it would take the pilots to reprogram the FMS, but if it was shortly after takeoff, I doubt they would have done it then. I suspect the FMS was programmed to make that change in heading, before departure from KL. Having ridden in the jump seat,  in the cockpits of Civil Turbojet aircraft, my memory tells me that things are extremely busy, before, during and for about 15 or 20 minutes after takeoff. After the aircraft is at cruising altitude, it is pretty boring...  Preparing for landing and landing is also quite busy.

[Melissa in Australia]

I can't make my tablet copy the link properly, so you'll need to go to www.bbc.com and click on news at the top then scroll down. There is a report that Chinese relatives were manhandled, literally dragged, away from reporters at the daily briefing today. Jonah Fischer, the BBC correspondent said he faced a wall of police when attempting to approach some of the relatives. This hurts my heart! So much pain already and then to be abused too...

 

Apparently, one of the simulations deleted from the pilot's home simulator was a flight plan to Maldives. If that turns out to be confirmed, this will lend credence to those witnesses that said a jet of similar description flew over at very low altitude.

 

It is all so bizarre.

 

one would think that the media constantly bombarding and pestering the relatives would be a reason to have the police try and stop the media from getting to them.

[MBM]

Diego Garcia might not be a base exactly, but after reading about it, I'm sure it has some serious security.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/island-of-diego-garcia-factors-into-mysterious-malaysia-flight-theories/

 

The island atoll is a British territory in the central Indian Ocean and is home to a United States Navy support facility — not exactly a U.S. base, but a home for 1700 military personnel, 1,500 civilian contractors, and various Naval equipment.

 

 

[FaithManor]

one would think that the media constantly bombarding and pestering the relatives would be a reason to have the police try and stop the media from getting to them.

Melissa, they were not man handling journalists and paparazzi. They were man handling - literally dragging ( go to the link, see the photos) Chinese relatives who wanted to talk to journalists!  That is a huge distinction and now there is an official investigation into the matter. The picture of the one elderly lady on the floor resisting and an officer trying to drag her away when she appeared to be trying to speak to the journalists was terrible.

 

This is awful!

[Melissa in Australia]

Melissa, they were not man handling journalists and paparazzi. They were man handling - literally dragging ( go to the link, see the photos) Chinese relatives who wanted to talk to journalists!  That is a huge distinction and now there is an official investigation into the matter. The picture of the one elderly lady on the floor resisting and an officer trying to drag her away when she appeared to be trying to speak to the journalists was terrible.

 

This is awful!

 

Ah, sorry I read your post wrong.

 I was imagining the police making a human wall stopping the media from hassling the relatives.

[Arcadia]

 

 I was imagining the police making a human wall stopping the media from hassling the relatives.

 

There is a human wall stopping the media.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26643058

 

However the one Faith mentioned is probably this BBC news article

"Malaysia missing plane: Relative dragged from briefing"

 

Below quoted is from Sydney Morning Herald "Missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370: relatives protest at press conference"

 

"Sky News in the UK reported: "One of the women has been knocked over and is presently on the floor. This is one of the family members. She's been shoved to the floor and she can't move."

 

The reporter at the news conference later said: "These two ladies had loved ones on board. For the last 12 days they've been given no information whatsoever.

Three women were removed from the press conference and escorted into a adjoining room, where they were held for a short period before being released, CNN reported.

The BBC also reported relatives of passengers had been forcibly removed from the news conference."

 

"Those in Kuala Lumpur have complained that they have been forbidden from speaking to reporters, and are watched around the clock by Malaysian officials and volunteers.

"I feel like I'm in jail," one man, identified as Mr Xu, told Hong Kong's Phoenix Television this week. "

[FaithManor]

That is the article I was referencing, and the picture was of the woman on the floor. She was one of the relatives, clearly crying, and being dragged. UGH!

[Unicorn.]

The ACARS reported, for the last time, 12 minutes before the co pilot told the Malaysian Controller, "all right, good night", after the Controller informed the crew that they were leaving Malaysian air space and entering Vietnamese air space. The ACARS system, 12 minutes before that last radio conversation, reported that the aircraft had turned to a new heading. 

 

The FMS (Flight Management System) was either programmed to make that change in  course, before departure from KL or shortly after takeoff...     

 

I don't know how long it would take the pilots to reprogram the FMS, but if it was shortly after takeoff, I doubt they would have done it then. I suspect the FMS was programmed to make that change in heading, before departure from KL. Having ridden in the jump seat,  in the cockpits of Civil Turbojet aircraft, my memory tells me that things are extremely busy, before, during and for about 15 or 20 minutes after takeoff. After the aircraft is at cruising altitude, it is pretty boring...  Preparing for landing and landing is also quite busy.

 

This is confusing to me... If the system is showing the plane already turned for a new heading... wouldn't the Malaysian air controller ask about a change in course?   Wouldn't they have seen the change in direction?

 

 

edited... meant Malaysian air control, not Vietnamese

 

 

[Lanny]

This is confusing to me... If the system is showing the plane already turned for a new heading... wouldn't the Vietnamese air controller ask about a change in course?   Wouldn't they have seen the change in direction?

Probably they never spoke with a  Vietnamese Controller. The last radio communication, as I understand this, was with the Malaysian Air Traffic Controller.

 

The Radar view they (Malaysian Air Traffic Controllers)  had, of a flight over the ocean, probably was not good, and I doubt that they would have detected a slight change in course, assuming they were able to track them on radar, with the Transponder turned off.

 

The Vietnamese Air Traffic Controller would have had the same problem, with an aircraft coming in from the South, over the ocean. What view, if any, they would have had, probably wouldn't have been good.

 

The coverage of Radar, away from land, is for a very limited distance. Possibly 200 miles.  We are talking about land based radar, There is no radar coverage, far from land. Over the Atlantic, the radar screens will "paint" where they think an aircraft should be, depending on their airspeed, the winds, flight plan, etc.  The flights are supposed to have distance between them, so one aircraft doesn't run into another one that is ahead of it, at the same altitude.  And, they have CAS (Collision Avoidance Systems). This works very well and you never hear about one aircraft running into another one while crossing the Atlantic.   :-)  Probably the same, over the Pacific.   :-)

[FaithManor]

Lanny, again you are a wonderful wealth of good information in this discussion. Thank you!

[Unicorn.]

Probably they never spoke with a  Vietnamese Controller. The last radio communication, as I understand this, was with the Malaysian Air Traffic Controller.

 

The Radar view they (Malaysian Air Traffic Controllers)  had, of a flight over the ocean, probably was not good, and I doubt that they would have detected a slight change in course, assuming they were able to track them on radar, with the Transponder turned off.

 

The Vietnamese Air Traffic Controller would have had the same problem, with an aircraft coming in from the South, over the ocean. What view, if any, they would have had, probably wouldn't have been good.

 

The coverage of Radar, away from land, is for a very limited distance. Possibly 200 miles.  We are talking about land based radar, There is no radar coverage, far from land. Over the Atlantic, the radar screens will "paint" where they think an aircraft should be, depending on their airspeed, the winds, flight plan, etc.  The flights are supposed to have distance between them, so one aircraft doesn't run into another one that is ahead of it, at the same altitude.  And, they have CAS (Collision Avoidance Systems). This works very well and you never hear about one aircraft running into another one while crossing the Atlantic.   :-)  Probably the same, over the Pacific.   :-)

 

Sorry, meant Malaysian air control.   And thank you, that does answer my question. 

 

[Ameena]

What I don't understand is this - Why are the relatives being held {possibly against their will} by the government? Surely, if they think the plane went down on account of an accident {as they seem to be promoting}, by now {almost 2 weeks afterwards} they would realize the family members need to get back to their jobs / families / regular lives.

 

To me, it seems like the government thinks {or knows} that the family members know something the government doesn't want released to the public / press.

[UmMusa]

What I don't understand is this - Why are the relatives being held {possibly against their will} by the government? Surely, if they think the plane went down on account of an accident {as they seem to be promoting}, by now {almost 2 weeks afterwards} they would realize the family members need to get back to their jobs / families / regular lives.

 

To me, it seems like the government thinks {or knows} that the family members know something the government doesn't want released to the public / press.

 

I just caught on to this part that it seems the families are still being held in some hotel or something? That makes absolutely no sense.  Is this true or maybe it's old information from when the plane first went missing.

By the way, great thread.

[Pawz4me]

Maybe some of you who know can educate me -- I seem to remember hearing that the Malaysian government is a partial owner of the airline.  Is that true?  If I'm understanding the corporate info section of their Wikipedia entry correctly (and if it's accurate), it appears that a subsidiary of the government's "investment arm and holding company" owns 52 percent of the airline.  If so, why is the government being allowed to conduct the investigation?  I'd say that screams of conflict of interest.

[Arcadia]

Maybe some of you who know can educate me -- I seem to remember hearing that the Malaysian government is a partial owner of the airline.  Is that true?  If I'm understanding the corporate info section of their Wikipedia entry correctly, it appears that a subsidiary of the government's "investment arm and holding company" owns 52 percent of the airline.  If so, why is the government being allowed to conduct the investigation?  I'd say that screams of conflict of interest.

 

This Sydney news article does explain "Missing Malaysia plane: questions over conflict of interest"

 

"There is also the question of the Malaysian government’s stake in the airline itself. At 69 per cent, the government is the biggest shareholder via two government holding companies"

 

"The responsibility for investigating aircraft accidents  is governed by the Chicago Treaty, which was drawn up in the 1940s. Annexure 13 deals with investigating aviation accidents and has as its main theme that the investigations should be independent of government and the airlines"

 

" Martin Dolan, chief commissioner of the ATSB said that in developing countries there was a tendency to combine regulation and investigation partly due to the lack of skilled people but this was not inconsistent with the treaty requirements."

 

"The lead country is usually the one where the crash occurred, he said. Where a plane disappears in international airspace, the country whose flag the aircraft was carrying leads the investigation."

[Slartibartfast]

Today they were saying on NPR that the FBI is officially joining the investigation. 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/world/asia/missing-malaysia-flight.html?hpw&rref=world&_r=0

 

 

 

 

To speed its efforts, the F.B.I. will probably make copies of the simulator’s hard drive and have its contents digitally relayed back to agents and analysts in the United States who specialize in retrieving deleted computer files. “Right now, it’s the best chance we have of finding something,†said a senior law enforcement official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the investigation. Unless the pilot used extremely sophisticated technology to erase files, the F.B.I. is likely to be able to retrieve them.

[Melissa in NC]

I keep seeing where the craft climbed to 45,000 feet.  The ceiling for this aircrast, Boeing 777-200ER, is 41,300ft.  This meaning that the plane can not fly above this because the air is too thin to give it the required lift.  It is impossible for this plane to fly to 45,000 feet.

 

Then it dived to 25,000 feet.  That is a 20,000 ft difference.  I am not sure of the time difference but one of the talking head said that it would be impossible to drop 20,000 ft that quickly with this airplane.  (It is not a fighter jet.)  He said it was a data glitch.

 

The quality of the facts coming out about this case is poor so I do not believe it climbed and dove so quickly.  JMHO.

[Mrs Mungo]

Diego Garcia is in the middle of the Indian Ocean.  My DH was stationed there.  Trust me, no wants to go there, not even hijackers!   :laugh:

 

But seriously, the assumption that our technology can catch everything that might want into our territory is pretty arrogant.  After all, how would the government prove that nothing got through if it was missed?  The government might never know what it missed.  On top of that, I see how "thorough" the rent-a-cops on bases here are and I shudder.

 

You think it's arrogant to assume that our radars will catch all planes the size of a 777? I'm not talking about noticing at the time (neither are they), I'm talking about after they sifted through all of their data. If they don't notice a 777, then all of that technology is pretty worthless.