will they ever be grateful????

[shinyhappypeople]

How do you cultivate a grateful attitude in children, especially with regard to education?

 

(JAWM vent) I can assure you, I have other, more interesting things to do than homeschool my kids.  And, no, I don't always feel like getting off my duff and starting our school day.  I'm not doing this because it's fun (though sometimes it is).  I'm doing this because it's IMPORTANT.  My kids have no idea how lucky they are to have a parent care enough to "torture" them with schoolwork.  And seriously, in light of the educational neglect discussions, their ungrateful attitudes are really hitting a nerve.  How can they ever appreciate what they've never been denied or never had to work for??? (Vent over)

 

Today was our first day back.  Tomorrow will be better.  Please be kind to me.

[Hunter]

They might and they might not.

 

I'm not going to discuss my younger son.

 

My older son, the one that fought me so hard, is grateful, and most especially for many of the things he fought and complained about.

 

I was going to write a story, but...I 'm feeling a little teary, and am going to click out of this thread. Too many memories, good and bad. Overload.

[Dana]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

 

I do sympathize.

 

However, gratitude for things that are required isn't something I expect from my son.

I don't expect gratitude from him because I provide food and shelter. Similarly, I don't expect gratitude because I provide an education. These are things he doesn't have a choice in (and neither do I with the requirement that he receives them).

 

From a distance, I can see how his education is better than mine in some ways - but it's also worse in others.

He's not aware of how the alternatives would work out, so he doesn't see what he has to be grateful for... he sees my :cursing:  as I get frustrated and as he has to do what he doesn't want to do.

 

If you can switch your perspective, that may help your frustration.

I try to get my gratitude for homeschooling from my husband. He knows the work that goes into it. My son doesn't have a choice.

 

Again... :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Ellie]

Maybe, maybe not, but it wouldn't be something that *I* would cultivate.

 

But I feel your pain. :grouphug:

[dbmamaz]

I try to bring it up to them - i mean, it helps that they went to and hated school.  But I remind them frequently that if I didnt do school with them, they would not be able to support themselves as adults, that school is something we often dislike in the moment, but long term its a good, important thing (I worked that in during history, when the whole subject of the current liberal/conservative attitude towards government was being discussed in our book).  

 

I didnt homeschool my daughter, but I did drive her between 3 different schools after working hard with the school district to get her to be able to take most of her courses at the community college in graphic design, and still get a high school diploma.  When she was ranting about how much she hated me, and how terrible a mom I was, and I obviously didnt care about her, I'd mention this, and she'd insist that this is not what people want from their mother . . . sigh.

 

I have high hopes that she will appreciate it some day.  She's 21 and not there yet.  I'm still sure I did the right thing.  

[AK_Mom4]

I think you just have to wait it out.

 

My older kids are grateful for their educations now that they are older.  DD12 is still in the mode of surviving her education but not very happy about it.  Before this year, she was firmly in the "I Hate Schoolwork" category. 

 

I don't think any of my kids have actually appreciated *MY* efforts until they left home for college.  I am much more appreciated now!

[JustEm]

You can't really cultivate it.  they may be grateful someday, they may not. Its likely they will not be grateful anytime soon while they are in it because they just view it as something that they have to do but do not want to do.  I gave my parents a lot of shit about having to go to catholic school.  All my siblings did (i'm the youngest of 7.)  When I was in 11th grade and my brother was in 12th they finally 'gave in' and let us transfer to public school.  By the end of 11th grade I was begging them to put me back in my previous high school.  Thankfully they did.  I still hated school but I was grateful that they forced Catholic school on us for as long as they did because it was certainly what was best for us.

 

 

[Critterfixer]

This is our second week back. Things get better. It's always rough coming off a layoff.

As for gratefulness, the boys made a friend over the holidays who hasn't been able to come over this week to play due to the fact that his school goes all day and he doesn't get home until after dark every day in the winter. Talk about sobering for two little boys who have from 3 to 5 every day to play outside after school is done. I haven't even had many math gripes this week.

[Halcyon]

I hear you! Sometimes I really hate being the only one around here who seems to care about learning things. I just hate bad attitudes.  :glare:

[Guest]

Pretty much everyone I know who has two twentysomething homeschool grads has the same story Hunter and I do: one is grateful, the less said about the other the better.

 

I've heard that the prodigals come around when they're closer to 30, but it's easier for me to regurgitate and recommend books and websites than it is for me to believe my own advice right now.

 

 

[AimeeM]

Hmm.

Honestly?

Are you grateful for things you do not enjoy and that you didn't ask anyone to give you?

I *do* (sincerely) say this kindly: unless they asked to be homeschooled, you're asking a bit much. Many children do not know the value of the education they receive until well into adulthood, lol.

[regentrude]

I do not expect children to be grateful for things whose value they can not appreciate until they are grown up.

I certainly could not fully appreciate all my parents did for me until I was a mother myself.

 

They will eventually appreciate what you did for them... just maybe not yet in the next decade.

 

[Halcyon]

Okay, see i think this is where i have problems. I LOVED school. I LOVED learning. I appreciated my teachers so much, yes, even then. I thought they were smart and funny and I enjoyed learning from them. 

 

DH? Loved learning. Aced everything, all the time. Worked his butt off. Did he love his teachers and school? No. But he definitely APPRECIATED them.

 

So why is it different with our kids?

[regentrude]

Okay, see i think this is where i have problems. I LOVED school. I LOVED learning. I appreciated my teachers so much, yes, even then. I thought they were smart and funny and I enjoyed learning from them. 

 

DH? Loved learning. Aced everything, all the time. Worked his butt off. Did he love his teachers and school? No. But he definitely APPRECIATED them.

 

So why is it different with our kids?

 

I loved and appreciated one teacher.  I loved learning, but was bored by school.

 

I think this is actually an important distinction: one can love learning, but one can dislike the structure and framework in which one learns. One can love, and be excited about math, but at the same time hate the math book or dislike the teacher.

So, a lack of appreciation does not have to be directed towards education per se, it could be a detail of the execution.

 

My DS values education, loves learning and can be excited about new things. This does not mean that he joyfully starts school work every morning or that he would not prefer gaming with his friends to doing math (even though he was thrilled about his math problem this morning). Normal, IMO.

[PinkyandtheBrains.]

Eh, I don't know if they will ever be grateful. Maybe yes, maybe no. Mine have been to public school though, so they know what the alternative is. I just expect them to be reasonably respectful to me. Otherwise I'm not concerned if they appreciate it. Sure it'd be nice if they did, but there are many things I never appreciated my parents doing.

 

 

And by respectful I am pretty laid back, I draw the line at screaming at me or in my face type behaviour.

[Hunter]

I've seen children be grateful, when they see their father be grateful. I've seen women who expect a grateful husband and children, because she is used to receiving gratefulness.

 

The worse people treat me, the less I think I deserve. When I am locked in relationships with people who do not respect me, or appreciate me, or believe my time and wants are equal to theirs, I start to believe them. This fall and early winter I have experienced a lowering of my sense of worth, and am trying to make sense of it, and figure out which sense was accurate, or if neither is/was.

 

Most human brains are wired to see other people as mirrors. If others smile at them, they think they are pretty and funny and smart and good. If people frown at them they think they are bad, wrong, ugly and stupid. We don't believe that people's frowns and smiles are more about them than us, but they are.

 

I am so pleased that you see your worth and the the worth of your time, even if others are not mirroring that worth back to you. :thumbup:

 

There are curriculum that target developing an attitude of gratefulness in children. I don't know how effective they are. I don't think your desire for gratefulness is wrong, I think it is healthy. But your children might not be in an environment where gratefulness is being modeled and taught. Our culture is like that in general, and some sub-cultures are particularly dismissive of the work of women and educators.

 

I received part of my education in another country, and I can tell you I treated the teachers overseas with greater respect, and even thought of them differently. The culture was different. Gratefulness and respect was modeled, demanded, and taught to me.

 

In the USA I saw students with a sense of entitlement that I had never seen before. And the ones that had the most were the most ungrateful. It was funny that way.

 

I've seen children who are grateful to their mothers and their teachers for their work. It's not only good for the mom/teacher, but it's good for the children. Those children grow up to value their own worth and time. We do our children no favors by seeing our work as valueless and respectless. They grow up to question their own value.

[regentrude]

I've seen children be grateful, when they see their father be grateful. I've seen women who expect a grateful husband and children, because she is used to receiving gratefulness.

...

I've seen children who are grateful to their mothers and their teachers for their work. It's not only good for the mom/teacher, but it's good for the children. Those children grow up to value their own worth and time. We do our children no favors by seeing our work as valueless and respectless. They grow up to question their own value.

 

I am wondering whether we are having also some semantics differences. I do not consider respect, appreciation, and gratitude to be synonyms; there are differences in meaning, and I am wondering to what degree we are all talking about the same thing.

 

I definitely want my children to respect me. I want them to appreciate me. But I do not find it necessary that they are grateful.

 

My boss and coworkers respect and appreciate me, too (I hope), but I do not think they are "grateful" that I am doing good work in my regular job. A colleague would be grateful if I did him a favor that was not part of my expected duties, for example if I covered his classes for him in a family emergency.

My DH respects and appreciates me. He appreciates the work I do homeschooling and keeping the household running smoothly. He would be grateful if I baked him a special cake, or if -like tonight- I help him with a tedious clerical task for his work that I am not expected to do.

 

So, I guess I would not expect my kids to be grateful that I am just doing my job parenting and educating them. Does that make any sense?

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Children don't have a frame of reference that allows them to see beyond their own circumstances and recognize how blessed they are for the hard work and sacrifices of others. Once they become adults and gain real world experiences and are able to see the world with their own eyes, they will begin to recognize the sacrifices that were made for them. I would not recommend feeling hurt or bad that children are acting like children. I didn't recognize my parent's sacrifices until I was grown with kids. Children are naturally (and quite normally) narcissistic (not in a malignant way, just a developmental way) and the process of becoming an adult is all about becoming more "other" centric and less "self" centric.

[8filltheheart]

I have kids that are thrilled to be homeschooled and I have/had kids that just trudge through certain subjects and soar through others. It doesn't change how I am treated. Basically it is their interior mental approach and their joy in all things or not. It gets done either way. ;). Nor do I carry their weight or infuse their joy. I also don't take it personally. Homeschooling is a job. I engage my kids and I do it to the best of my ability, but they are kids and some school things are equally just a job/duty to them. We are all human.

 

Fwiw, the best homeschooling day I ever had was the day my oldest called me on the phone his freshman yr of college and simply said, "Mom, there is something I need to tell you. Thank you." He is not that kind of verbal gratitude type kid, so those 2 words were priceless and made every single moment of homeschooling him worthwhile.

[Desert Strawberry]

My children are grateful, even at their early ages, for the privilege of being homeschooled by a mother who loves to teach them.

 

 Gratitude is exceptionally important to me. I express my gratitude to my children. I point out the things that we get to do because we homeschool. We talk about the sacrifices we have made in order for me to be able to homeschool them. 

 

A while back, in a moment of frustration, I rattled off my resume and quoted my potential tutoring fee to them to impress upon them that I am highly qualified for this job. My oldest instantly gained respect for me as a professional whose services he is allowed to utilize. 

 

I don't necessarily expect my kid to be grateful for the lengthy copy work I assigned him from Macbeth today, but I do expect him to be generally appreciative of the education I am providing to him.

[dbmamaz]

Pretty much everyone I know who has two twentysomething homeschool grads has the same story Hunter and I do: one is grateful, the less said about the other the better.

 

I've heard that the prodigals come around when they're closer to 30, but it's easier for me to regurgitate and recommend books and websites than it is for me to believe my own advice right now.

My daughter is living with my mom and barely speaking to me - my mom assures me that her relationship with my sister (who is a lot like my daughter) got better when my sister was 30 . .. so i only have 9 years to wait?

 

Okay, see i think this is where i have problems. I LOVED school. I LOVED learning. I appreciated my teachers so much, yes, even then. I thought they were smart and funny and I enjoyed learning from them. 

 

DH? Loved learning. Aced everything, all the time. Worked his butt off. Did he love his teachers and school? No. But he definitely APPRECIATED them.

 

So why is it different with our kids?

Actually, thats a good point.  Well, except dh and I both blew off school by the end of high school to some extent.  But we definitely loved learning a lot more than the boys do.  And we were precocious writers, whereas our son (only the youngest is his) was really, really late to write.  

[Desert Strawberry]

Returning with more.

 How involved are your children in choosing their curriculum, methods, scheduling, and subject matter? 

I find that my kids fare much better in the attitude department when they have more ownership and input into the learning process than when I dictate what, when, and how. They are also more accepting of the less desirable aspects when the majority of their work meets with their approval. 

I am trying this year to step back from being the enforcer to offering guidance as needed and allowing them to be more responsible for their own education. It is theirs, after all, and not mine.

[TianXiaXueXiao]

I really strongly disagree with this, based on my situation, on which I commented above.

 

Where are all the children living, if not in the real world? I have visions of children checking out on video games and HBO when people talk about children not being in the "real" world. I understood the capital-S Struggle from a very young age. Children can deal. Children can be grateful. It's not outside the bounds of developmental realities for a child to recognize their good luck or blessings, depending on your//their worldview. Children are PARTICULARLY able to empathize (and thereby recognize their good luck), actually, in my opinion.

 

I think I must not have been clear enough in my statement. I think children can be and are grateful for many things, but what they are not yet able to do (for the most part) is appreciate the sacrifices that others make in order to satisfy their needs and desires. As for the real world--I am talking about life after they have flown the nest. Even for many of us who dealt with huge struggles in our youth, it would have been very difficult to appreciate the sacrifices of others, not having any other context for "normal" life though we may have understood gratitude. I would wager that the majority of children in the "developed" world  are not so cognizant and aware of all the hardships and cruelties that exist beyond their normal life circumstances. They may be exposed to the realities of what others endure, but that is not the same thing as having the ability to empathize. I would also have a very difficult time believing that children truly grasp the fact that every single choice we-as parents-make is to the exclusion of another choice that may have been more fulfilling to the one who made the choice. There is so much we do not "get" until we must rely on our own moxy to achieve our goals and dreams, often through many trials and failure. I, personally, have a child who is very grateful that she is home after being in public school for 4 years (k-3) and she loves being here with me and her little sister. It is not my job, however, to teach her how to be grateful for the sacrifices I make, that comes very close to shaming territory. She is a kid and she is not in control of her circumstances in all regards, yet. Someday she will be the sole person responsible for her own choices and at that point--or sometime after--I believe/hope she will have cultivated an appreciation for what it takes to provide for others.

[8filltheheart]

Pretty much everyone I know who has two twentysomething homeschool grads has the same story Hunter and I do: one is grateful, the less said about the other the better.

 

I've heard that the prodigals come around when they're closer to 30, but it's easier for me to regurgitate and recommend books and websites than it is for me to believe my own advice right now.

I'm so sorry for you, Hunter, and the others posting similar sentiments. That is really hard.

 

I do want to share for others reading this thread that it is not reality in all families, though, so that you don't need to be afraid of homeschooling through high school. None of my kids has ever expressed any regret for being homeschooled and have only expressed recognition for the benefits they have from it. I am not sure why others have kids with hard feelings. I can only share that my kids have immense control over their lives once they are in high school and they do influence all their educational choices. So, if they are miserable with the outcomes, they are definitely invested in why they are what they are.

[regentrude]

 Gratitude is exceptionally important to me. I express my gratitude to my children. I point out the things that we get to do because we homeschool. We talk about the sacrifices we have made in order for me to be able to homeschool them. 

 

I would NEVER want to impose such a burden on my children: parade my sacrifices in front of their eyes. They will inevitably feel guilty, whether that was the intended effect or not.

I do the things I do for them out of love. I do them out of my own volition.

If I sacrifice anything, I try my best to not let them notice. I do not want children to grow up with feelings of guilt, of owing me.

I do not want my children growing up with the image of a martyr mom.

 

Because what I gain from being a parent is overwhelmingly more precious and valuable than the little things I give up.

 

[Mommyfaithe]

Pretty much everyone I know who has two twentysomething homeschool grads has the same story Hunter and I do: one is grateful, the less said about the other the better.

 

I've heard that the prodigals come around when they're closer to 30, but it's easier for me to regurgitate and recommend books and websites than it is for me to believe my own advice right now.

I have 4 graduates. I think my kids are grateful for the education I forced on them....but, the jury is still out on whether there was enough bang for the buck. And yeah, 2 I can talk about, and 2 I would rather not....

[dbmamaz]

See, i had thought about homeschooling for ever, but only really did it because the boys were so desperate to get out of school.  I have come to enjoy it, now that i'm in my 5th year, but still look forward to getting back to work, probably in 2 years, putting my youngest back in school.   but kids . . . as much as they were thrilled to be out of school, they also resent doing school every day.

[msjones]

I know some of you will think this is unhealthy:  I require my kids to fake it.  

 

In our house, even if you aren't feeling thankful, you are to say thank you and behave as though you appreciate what someone does for you.  Even if you don't want to work, you are to act as if you want to and get it done.  

 

I have to fake it all the time as an adult -- I think it's part of being polite.  

 

So, that's how I deal with that here.  

 

I don't think my kids are particularly grateful, but they do need to act as if they are.  That's enough for me right now.  

[73349]

I think kids are more apt to be grateful if they are made aware that not everyone has what they have. So if you ask DS if he's happy to be homeschooled, he would probably answer that yes, he knows how late the school bus brings the other neighborhood kids home, and that in some places parents can neither teach their kids to read nor afford school fees.

That doesn't mean he never feels reluctance to do what I'm asking him to do, just that he can get over it.

 

I think older kids should not have guilt over sacrifices their parents have made, but at the same time, they should be aware that there is a cost for what we are providing. DS doesn't know how much the electric bill is, but he knows Daddy works to pay it, and so DS goes around turning off lights. As a college student paying my own way, I once did the math to find out the price per minute of lectures. Knowing that, I did not enjoy class a bit more--but any time I started to ponder skipping a class, that information came back to me, and I very rarely missed one. So while kids should know that you are glad to provide a good education, they should also know it has costs (such as the opportunity cost of not earning money during that time) and that they should be sure to make the most of it.

[Desert Strawberry]

I would NEVER want to impose such a burden on my children: parade my sacrifices in front of their eyes. They will inevitably feel guilty, whether that was the intended effect or not.

I do the things I do for them out of love. I do them out of my own volition.

If I sacrifice anything, I try my best to not let them notice. I do not want children to grow up with feelings of guilt, of owing me.

I do not want my children growing up with the image of a martyr mom.

 

Because what I gain from being a parent is overwhelmingly more precious and valuable than the little things I give up.

Wow. That is really not how I meant that.

 I am not a martyr. I said that I express my gratitude to be able to do this.

However, that has meant living in poverty for the past 7 years. The sacrifices aren't mine. They are theirs and ours. I would rather be home with my kids than have a house that isn't literally falling apart, food that isn't beans and rice, buy them toys, sign them up for activities, have two cars... They are fully aware of what we don't have.

Things are better for us now, but we still have a budget. I want them to understand that we have to make choices. There are many benefits to all of us being home, but they come at a price. When my son complains that we no longer live in the city, and can't sign up for everything, I do remind him that when we lived in the city, I had to work. Giving up some of the comforts allows us to be together, which is far more important to us than going ice skating every week(which he also would not be able to do if he were in school).

[T'smom]

You can't really cultivate it. they may be grateful someday, they may not. Its likely they will not be grateful anytime soon while they are in it because they just view it as something that they have to do but do not want to do. I gave my parents a lot of shit about having to go to catholic school. All my siblings did (i'm the youngest of 7.) When I was in 11th grade and my brother was in 12th they finally 'gave in' and let us transfer to public school. By the end of 11th grade I was begging them to put me back in my previous high school. Thankfully they did. I still hated school but I was grateful that they forced Catholic school on us for as long as they did because it was certainly what was best for us.

This is interesting to me. If they hadn't let you try out public school, do you think you would still be resentful of sing forced into Catholic school?

 

I don't care if my kids are grateful for homeschooling exactly. I agree with PPs that said the homeschooling thing was my choice. But I do hope that they eventually value having an education and believe that I gave them the best that I could.

[Above The Rowan]

Maybe it's because we're still new to homeschooling, maybe it's because we recently pulled the kids out of PS where they were exhausted all the time, or maybe even because it was my 7yr old who initiated the talk about homeschooling - - but my kids tell me often "its great we get to homeschool eh mom? cuz we can 'x y or z'" 

 

I think it's because from the moment we talked about pulling them out of school, I made a point to always tell them - in a pointed way OR sometimes just in passing - how cool it is that we have a chance to school this way. Not everyone is able to make the choice to do this - and it's a big commitment, but we're really very blessed to have a chance to do this in our lives.

 

I tell them as I pass them in our hallway or making dinner, with a rub of their hair, how happy I am that we get to hang out so much now.

 

I'm grateful beyond measure for the chance to finally homeschool the way I wanted to from the beginning, and I think me sharing MY gratitude reminds them that they also have a lot to be thankful for.

 

How long will this last? Who the heck knows. But for now, we are all deeply grateful for the chance to do this.  

[WahM]

I haven't read all the other posts, so im not if this has been mentioned, but it might help if you homeschool because you want to homeschool because you feel it's best for your kids. Kids will be kids and will not be greatful for their education just yet, maybe never, but if you do it cause you wholeheartedly want to that may help some of the negative feelings.

[elegantlion]

My son once told me he hated school. I tried to take it personally. After pondering, I realized I hated school too. It wasn't the learning it was the system. I let him be. He was in private school for prek and K, so he has some reference. Yet I figured he was allowed his opinion. We did talk about how I expected respect and compliance - not Borg like compliance, but enough not to give me grief on a daily basis. 

 

Is he grateful? I don't know, I think so. He's grateful I care, I think. But I do a lot of setting aside my own stuff to show I care. I listen to him a lot. We talk about how starting back after a break is hard. We're doing something different this week. Frankly, I do set aside and sacrifice enough that I need some solace in our homeschooling environment. Some days I fake the enthusiasm, some days I don't and we close up shop early or do something different. 

 

Homeschooling has forced me to be real to my child. I think that gives him so freedom to be real in front of me. We have ebbs and flows, we're human. He challenges me to prove to him while something is worthwhile beyond the "I said so". Today we had an hour long discussion about long-term goals, edging into an ethics discussion. It wasn't on the schedule. We stopped after that, it had been a long day, even though we weren't done. School ended on a high note. I need those days. 

 

I really do think it's worth having my son see the importance of why we do this. I make it a priority time wise and emotion wise. It's hard, especially when life pulls you. 

 

:grouphug: We all have bad days, kids too. I hope tomorrow is a better day for you. 

 

 

 

 

[8filltheheart]

I think it's because from the moment we talked about pulling them out of school, I made a point to always tell them - in a pointed way OR sometimes just in passing - how cool it is that we have a chance to school this way. Not everyone is able to make the choice to do this - and it's a big commitment, but we're really very blessed to have a chance to do this in our lives.

My kids have never attended ps. But, my kids have a weird mix of hs and ps friends, more ps than hs since we moved. It really hasn't mattered where their friends have gone to school. My kids have all been very aware that educationally they are far more academically free as well as prepared than their friends. In all our yrs of homeschooling, we have really only ever 3 families that have the same level,of academic achievement or greater than our kids. All three were homeschool families and two of the ladies are members of this forum. My kids are extremely aware of just how precious that academic freedom is as they watch their ps counterparts boxed into a system that they cannot get to flex for their individual needs.

 

So, really, no regrets bc they want to homeschool.

[LucyStoner]

I don't know that I was fully grateful to my mother for all she did for me until I was in my 20s and a mom myself. I think this is par for the course. I may have appreciated her in some ways before that but I really had no idea the depth of her effort and love until I was had the frame a reference to understand what all of it really meant.

[Mommyfaithe]

Okay, see i think this is where i have problems. I LOVED school. I LOVED learning. I appreciated my teachers so much, yes, even then. I thought they were smart and funny and I enjoyed learning from them.

 

DH? Loved learning. Aced everything, all the time. Worked his butt off. Did he love his teachers and school? No. But he definitely APPRECIATED them.

 

So why is it different with our kids?

Honestly??? I think mine are spoiled. I have always tried to make things easier for them, to choose curricula that was something they would enjoy, to teach from a gentle place. Our lives became too kid-centric and thus my kids became self-centric. Of course, at the time I thought I was doing my best( and I was). I challenged them with new ideas and new material....but, they always knew I was their Mom first and foremost....and having to play multiple roles in their life was a balancing act.

 

I think this is my greatest homeschool fail. Now, I by no means coddle my kids....but, they are MY kids. I am concerned about them MORE than any teacher, mentor, manager etc. and they know it.

 

Anyway, this was my biggest homeschool FAIL. Some of my kids get it. They know they are getting a better education. They know I sacrifice my sanity for them. They know I would throw myself under a bus for them and they are grateful for that. Some of my kids think they have all that coming to them just because we decided to procreate and bring them into this planet. They are selfish, ungrateful and entitled. I think it is personality.

 

My biggest reason, other than the crummy schools and The Lord, for homeschooling, the thing that kept me going for years, was to build relationships both with my kids and for the kids to build relationships with each other. That has back-fired a bit with 2 of my kids. Familiarity can build contempt. As those 2 got older it was clear they were just biding their time until they could fly the coop. I am fine with that. I did not make a stink. Those 2 look from the outside as if they are very successful. They have good jobs, relationships, a fine education. They are articulate, clean from drugs, and carry themselves well. What no one sees is they are also selfish and egocentric. ( I am their MOM, so I can call it as I see it!). They can do no wrong in their own eyes, and anything that goes wrong is always someone else's fault.

 

My other 2 adult kids...same mom/same dad, different personalities have very strong bonds with me and their dad and their other siblings. They come to us for advice. They visit because they want to, not out of obligation. They are our friends.

 

Strange how it all works out. I really am now struggling to continue to homeschool my last 3 because of that 50/50 turnout...lol! I can already see the writing on the wall. I know which kids have which temperament, and my heart tells me to keep at it, but my head says to protect myself from the hurt and disappointment of raising a person who will not be thankful, but will be the opposite.

 

As my oldest gets older, our relationship is getting better....but it is still strained. As she nears 30, I see a bit more understanding of where I was coming from in raising her. I am hoping that we can come to a place of love and mutual respect over the next few years....as she gets older. We have both been working on spending more time together as adults and enjoying each others company. It is a little strained, but nowhere near what that was when she was a young 20 something.

 

Anyway, I am not sure if this is a homeschool thing or just a raising kids thing. I see this with my nieces and nephews and with friends kids who went to public, private and homeschools....

[marbel]

Interesting thread.  I don't think my kids are particularly grateful.  I'm pretty sure I was not grateful as a kid.  My kids have never been to school but they've had enough exposure to know they have a pretty good deal.   But still, it was their dad's and my decision to homeschool them.  They didn't ask for it.  We don't talk about sacrifice and I don't see any point in telling them I could be making money doing something beside staying home with them.   Maybe I'm afraid one of them would say "well, then, go do that if you want to."  :crying:   They know I had a professional life before they came along; they know my level of education (not impressively high) and what I studied.   But what about homeschooling mothers who never went to college and at all and never worked at a paying job?  Are they less worthy of respect as homeschooling mothers?  

 

I remember reading an article about adoptive parents once.  I have no connection with adoption so I'm not sure why I read it.  But it cautioned against adoptive parents expecting gratitude from their kids, particularly kids who were older when adopted (not infants).   Expecting gratitude is dangerous because then bitterness can creep in when that gratitude isn't forthcoming.  I think that fits here too. 

[AimeeM]

Okay, see i think this is where i have problems. I LOVED school. I LOVED learning. I appreciated my teachers so much, yes, even then. I thought they were smart and funny and I enjoyed learning from them. 

 

DH? Loved learning. Aced everything, all the time. Worked his butt off. Did he love his teachers and school? No. But he definitely APPRECIATED them.

 

So why is it different with our kids?

 

In both your case and your husband's, you very much enjoyed learning - not all children do. It's hard (if not often impossible) to appreciate and be grateful for things you do NOT enjoy, nor did you ask for. Adults have problems with it... children most certainly do/would.

 

[AimeeM]

 

Anyway, I am not sure if this is a homeschool thing or just a raising kids thing. I see this with my nieces and nephews and with friends kids who went to public, private and homeschools....

 

I think it's a parent thing, not a homeschool thing.

We sacrifice to send our eldest to a specialized private school for dyslexic children. Does she always do her best work or seem grateful? No way. School is the means to an end with her (college and a career she enjoys). Her ideal "education" is playing on her ipad all day, curled up with her Harry Potter books and craft supplies. Her scope is limited right now. She *loves* her school, but she would love never going to school again (and no school work) just as much, I imagine. That's just her personality.

[Miss Mousie]

I seem to hold irreconcilable viewpoints.

 

On the one hand, there are these posts: 

 

 

It's lovely that people can take it for granted. Really. This is a relatively new and delightful problem to have!

 

 

 I would wager that the majority of children in the "developed" world  are not so cognizant and aware of all the hardships and cruelties that exist beyond their normal life circumstances. They may be exposed to the realities of what others endure, but that is not the same thing as having the ability to empathize.

 

These thoughts bring to mind:  How can a person be truly grateful for, say, a flushable toilet, when they've never experienced life without one?  Sure, they can imagine that such a condition would be a hardship, but without direct experience it can only be an intellectual exercise.  (ETA:  And with the brutal weather lately, I have remembered to be grateful for my furnace and my not-frozen pipes, etc. - but it's not something at the forefront of my mind on a normal day.)  It's gratitude, but ... I don't know ... maybe there's something intangible missing ... humility, maybe?  I'm not sure.  TWWells mentioned empathy - maybe that's it.

 

But then there's the cliché parental admonishment - "finish your vegetables, don't you know there are starving kids in China who would love to have them?"  Did that line ever make anyone grateful for cold canned peas?  Or did it just throw a little guilt gravy on top?

 

Somehow the mix of these thoughts leads me to agree with RisingPhoenix's way of handling it - which others have mentioned in various ways - which is to speak aloud one's own gratitude and hope it rubs off someday.

 

 

 

I think it's because from the moment we talked about pulling them out of school, I made a point to always tell them - in a pointed way OR sometimes just in passing - how cool it is that we have a chance to school this way. Not everyone is able to make the choice to do this - and it's a big commitment, but we're really very blessed to have a chance to do this in our lives.

 

I tell them as I pass them in our hallway or making dinner, with a rub of their hair, how happy I am that we get to hang out so much now.

 

I'm grateful beyond measure for the chance to finally homeschool the way I wanted to from the beginning, and I think me sharing MY gratitude reminds them that they also have a lot to be thankful for.

  

 

All in all, an interesting thread, with much to consider.  OP, I hope you can find a place of peace.

 

[brookspr]

I didn't read all of the other posts, so I apologize in advance if someone already posted this link.  Just this morning on Facebook, a friend posted a link to an article in the Wall Street Journal called Raising Children with an Attitude of Gratitude.  I skimmed the article and left it open to go back and read in detail later, but for anyone who might be interested, here is the link.

 

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303773704579270293660965768

[shinyhappypeople]

Thanks for the comments.  I have a lot of thoughts rambling around in my head.  I thought that part of the issue was that they just didn't realize that education wasn't a given for many children (especially girls).  So, I told 9 yo DD about the girls in Afghanistan who were prohibited from ever going to school because of extremist religious beliefs.  And she said, "LUCKY!!!"   :banghead:   

There's a lot of immaturity and self-centeredness going on.  I get that.  

 

But, I think that DH and I have also spent considerable financial and emotional resources shielding them from the reality of poverty that surrounds us (20% of our community is officially below Federal Poverty Level, many more families hovering just above FPL.   Even our little family is 150% of FPL (and for years we earned much less).  Nevertheless, we've always found ways to shield them from the effects of it.  But, in the process, I think we've inadvertently spoiled them.

 

I grew up very, very poor - as in "no winter coat and it's 30 degrees outside" poor -  until my teen years.  I don't want them to experience that.  But, is the only alternative what we're doing?  Shielding them to the point that they believe everything is their birthright and the world (or just their parents) owe them an education, and the appearance of a middle-class life?  I wonder if they'll ever realize how lucky they are to be born in this particular country at this particular time.  I don't want to raise children who become self-absorbed, entitled adults.  But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how to stop it.  Sometimes I feel like the culture (esp. the media and the government) conspires against our best intentions to raise self-sufficient, giving, responsible adults.  

 

There's a song stuck in my head all morning.  I can't remember what it's called, but the part I remember goes: "In my own little world it hardly ever rains.  I've never known hunger, always felt safe.  I've got money in my pocket, shoes on my feet, in my own little world, population me."  The song gets better, but still... oh my gosh, that verse absolutely haunts me, because  I think that unless we change how we do things, that's the fate of my kids.   I want them to be better than that.  

 

I'm not sure what the point of all my rambling is, I just need to work through what's going on in my heart and my mind.  Writing it out helps me think out loud.  Thanks for reading this, and for continuing to be kind. :)

[TianXiaXueXiao]

Thanks for the comments.  I have a lot of thoughts rambling around in my head.  I thought that part of the issue was that they just didn't realize that education wasn't a given for many children (especially girls).  So, I told 9 yo DD about the girls in Afghanistan who were prohibited from ever going to school because of extremist religious beliefs.  And she said, "LUCKY!!!"   :banghead:   

There's a lot of immaturity and self-centeredness going on.  I get that.  

 

But, I think that DH and I have also spent considerable financial and emotional resources shielding them from the reality of poverty that surrounds us (20% of our community is officially below Federal Poverty Level, many more families hovering just above FPL.   Even our little family is 150% of FPL (and for years we earned much less).  Nevertheless, we've always found ways to shield them from the effects of it.  But, in the process, I think we've inadvertently spoiled them.

 

I grew up very, very poor - as in "no winter coat and it's 30 degrees outside" poor -  until my teen years.  I don't want them to experience that.  But, is the only alternative what we're doing?  Shielding them to the point that they believe everything is their birthright and the world (or just their parents) owe them an education, and the appearance of a middle-class life?  I wonder if they'll ever realize how lucky they are to be born in this particular country at this particular time.  I don't want to raise children who become self-absorbed, entitled adults.  But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how to stop it.  Sometimes I feel like the culture (esp. the media and the government) conspires against our best intentions to raise self-sufficient, giving, responsible adults.  

 

There's a song stuck in my head all morning.  I can't remember what it's called, but the part I remember goes: "In my own little world it hardly ever rains.  I've never known hunger, always felt safe.  I've got money in my pocket, shoes on my feet, in my own little world, population me."  The song gets better, but still... oh my gosh, that verse absolutely haunts me, because  I think that unless we change how we do things, that's the fate of my kids.   I want them to be better than that.  

 

I'm not sure what the point of all my rambling is, I just need to work through what's going on in my heart and my mind.  Writing it out helps me think out loud.  Thanks for reading this, and for continuing to be kind. :)

 

Your kids sound cute and completely normal for their developmental stage. I really would not stress out about these larger issues because they will grow into caring adults even if they fight over toys and friends and time with you today. Focus on praising the positive and ignore the negative. The more you praise their achievements and ignore their attitude, the more they will want to give you what gets rewarded. Just a thought. Good luck!

 

[Desert Strawberry]

I don't think we do our children any favors by sheltering them from reality. I didn't understand budgets until I was 30 and in serious debt. We didn't have a ton of money growing up, but all I ever learned was how to use a credit card.

My goal for my kids is to teach them to appreciate what they have and be responsible in their choices. 

My advice is to have a talk with your husband about your concerns. Find strategies to start letting your dds start discovering the limitations of the real world.

[regentrude]

Thanks for the comments.  I have a lot of thoughts rambling around in my head.  I thought that part of the issue was that they just didn't realize that education wasn't a given for many children (especially girls).  So, I told 9 yo DD about the girls in Afghanistan who were prohibited from ever going to school because of extremist religious beliefs.  And she said, "LUCKY!!!"   :banghead:   

There's a lot of immaturity and self-centeredness going on.  I get that.  

 

I think what a child can grasp and needs to know is very age dependent.

A 9 year old does not have the big picture to see why schooling is valuable.

So, I would focus on appreciating her circumstances in situation where it is easy for her to grasp how good her circumstances are.

If she sees homeless people in your town, she can appreciate how nice it is to have a house and a bed. Especially in winter.

If she experiences hungry people (either in person, or reads/sees documentaries), she will be able to appreciate having enough to eat.

Food and shelter and clothes are tangible things. They are concrete and easy to grasp, and the child can imagine what it might be like not to have them.

 

OTOH, the impact of obtaining an education will not manifest itself until later in life. For a 9 y/o, this is a very abstract concept.

You can talk about the value of an education, how it opens up choices, but it all remains theoretical until the child is quite a bit older. There are adults who don't value education!

 

I grew up very, very poor - as in "no winter coat and it's 30 degrees outside" poor -  until my teen years.  I don't want them to experience that.  But, is the only alternative what we're doing?  Shielding them to the point that they believe everything is their birthright and the world (or just their parents) owe them an education, and the appearance of a middle-class life?  I wonder if they'll ever realize how lucky they are to be born in this particular country at this particular time.  I don't want to raise children who become self-absorbed, entitled adults.  But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how to stop it.  Sometimes I feel like the culture (esp. the media and the government) conspires against our best intentions to raise self-sufficient, giving, responsible adults. 

 

It will come in due time. For younger kids, I do not believe in burdening them with struggles. I believe in being part of a community, having friends from all ways of life, experiencing people in different circumstances, reading and learning about other locations in the world. Through studying history, literature, geography, current events, you broaden the child's horizon. Reading Little House in the Prairie gives them a picture of hard pioneer life; when you read about Christmas and the kids being excited about a candy cane in their stockings, you can gently draw a comparison to their life. Volunteering, or helping out a friend in need, drives home the reality of people next to them who have less. Living life with open eyes, guided by caring parents, teaches those lessons.

[AimeeM]

Agreed.

I do not think, OP, that your children sound immature or self centered - I think they sound developmentally age appropriate. They've never known a life without education and it IS a right here in the United States (as per your comment that the world *owes* them an education), so it is very likely too abstract to not only imagine life without an education, but too abstract to imagine that it's feasible - and to imagine the life long repercussions.

I think what a child can grasp and needs to know is very age dependent.

A 9 year old does not have the big picture to see why schooling is valuable.

So, I would focus on appreciating her circumstances in situation where it is easy for her to grasp how good her circumstances are.

If she sees homeless people in your town, she can appreciate how nice it is to have a house and a bed. Especially in winter.

If she experiences hungry people (either in person, or reads/sees documentaries), she will be able to appreciate having enough to eat.

Food and shelter and clothes are tangible things. They are concrete and easy to grasp, and the child can imagine what it might be like not to have them.

 

OTOH, the impact of obtaining an education will not manifest itself until later in life. For a 9 y/o, this is a very abstract concept.

You can talk about the value of an education, how it opens up choices, but it all remains theoretical until the child is quite a bit older. There are adults who don't value education!

 

 

It will come in due time. For younger kids, I do not believe in burdening them with struggles. I believe in being part of a community, having friends from all ways of life, experiencing people in different circumstances, reading and learning about other locations in the world. Through studying history, literature, geography, current events, you broaden the child's horizon. Reading Little House in the Prairie gives them a picture of hard pioneer life; when you read about Christmas and the kids being excited about a candy cane in their stockings, you can gently draw a comparison to their life. Volunteering, or helping out a friend in need, drives home the reality of people next to them who have less. Living life with open eyes, guided by caring parents, teaches those lessons.

 

[Arcadia]

 

But, I think that DH and I have also spent considerable financial and emotional resources shielding them from the reality of poverty that surrounds us (20% of our community is officially below Federal Poverty Level, many more families hovering just above FPL.  

I don't see a need to shield my kids so we are likely coming from different viewpoints. My kids have seen homeless people sleeping on benches outside the libraries day after day.  They have seen bins collecting clothes and school supplies for foster children. They have met mothers with children in tow begging people for money outside Walmart.  They have seen the long line outside a local unemployment office waiting for the office to open. They have definitely encountered panhandlers and homeless people in San Francisco. They have also look inside the soup kitchen at SF.

 

I love school because I never had to study. I would probably hate school if I had to put in effort. My 9 year old would do only Science if I let him and sulk over LA.  Education is a birthright back home so no one ever question it and homeschooling was only legal recently. People are grateful for their diplomas, degrees and trade certificates that enable them to have a job and support a family. Grateful for the education itself, I don't know. 

[dirty ethel rackham]

I wouldn't expect gratitude.  I would work on cultivating a cooperative attitude (or at least minimizing whining and complaining,) but I wouldn't expect gratitude.  I didn't feel gratitude toward my teachers growing up, even though I did what I was told and tried my best.  Even though I did well, school was a miserable experience for me.  I didn't feel gratitude toward my parents, although I tried to be the best I could so as not to disappoint them.  I don't expect my kids to be thankful for making them do their work. 

[Garga]

My sons are 8 and 11 and they grouse about school most days. I have started talking to them about why we homeschool very matter of factly and adult-to-adult like. My 11 year old is juuuust now old enough to start understanding. I've been telling him that his education is *his* education, not mine. I already know the stuff I'm teaching him. At the end of these school years he will walk away with a diploma and I will walk away with...nothing. This is all for him.

 

I don't say it to guilt him. I say it because he hasn't known until now that this is *his* education. He's been in that little-kid fog where life seems blurry and confusing and everything is a little bit surprising. Remember being like that as a small child? He's getting old enough now to see the bigger picture. He's getting to the point where I can explain that this isn't a little project that I'm doing but that this is *his* education and ultimately *his* responsibility. I do not see it as pouring on guilt to explain to him that I get nothing out of this.

 

Wait...I do tell them that I love my time with them and love being with them, so they know I do get *something* out of it. I make it clear that I enjoy what we do. But, on paper, I get nothing out of this in that I get no education and I get no diploma. I already have that. I'm just passing it on to them now.

 

OP, you might have to wait until that middle school age--around 10 or 11 for this to sink in. And then, you'd need to talk very adult-like to them.

 

They were grousing just this past week and I said, "I wish you guys would stop complaining and whining!" And then I thought and said, "No. Actually that's not really what I wish. I wish that you wanted, inside yourselves, to learn."

 

And then I told them this story:

 

In my 12th grade year I signed up simultaneously for a computer class and a typing class. A student who had already graduated was talking with me and said, "Wait, you signed up for the computer class at the same time as the typing class? Oooo. Big problem. You have to know how to type BEFORE you take the computer class. If you don't you'll probably fail."

 

Now, I later found out that he was just blowing smoke and liked to make grandiose statements like that, but it scared me.

 

So, I don't remember how (it's been 24 years), but I found a typing book. I had an electric typewriter--the kind with paper and white out, and I propped up the book and taught myself how to type. My mother didn't help me. My father didn't help me. The boy who made the grandiose statement didn't help me. I just did it. Alone. With the book. Because *I* wanted to.

 

And I finished the story by telling my sons, "*That's* what I want. I want you to learn because it will help *you.* Because you know you'll need this for *your* future."

 

In a recent thread, someone talked about this same topic as this thread. She pointed out that when adults don't want to do something, we set up rewards for ourselves. For example, "When I lose 10 pounds I will buy myself a new dress." This other poster (can't find the thread) said that she encourages her kids to create their own reward system inside *themselves*. They come up with the goal and they reward themselves.

 

I told my 11 year old about that he is very intrigued. After hearing my typing story and hearing about the self-reward system, he has decided that he wants to learn typing. The thing is that he already has a typing lesson every day, but he does the bare minimum for it. For the first time ever, his eyes are opened to the fact that if he *wants* to learn something, it will benefit *him.* He has decided that he will take his typing more seriously and reward himself when he can do it. His goal: To type faster than writing. The benefit: He'll be able to type faster than writing :) and he'll have access to spell check and his hand won't hurt when he has to write reports. Plus, he'll get himself a lego set.

 

This is a lot. I'll stop now! Bottom line: My ds8 just sits there bouncing around during these conversations and goes back to grousing. My ds11 is starting to open his eyes to the fact that this is *his* education. Not mine. The grousing is getting a little better.