Best and worst things about England

[Laura Corin]

I thought this was an interesting (generally positive but not uncritical) view of England from an American expatriate.

 

L

[Lara in Colo]

It was interesting.  I often wonder if I would be happier living there.

[saw]

Interesting. Definitely agree on the washer/dryer. I'd also like to get in touch with the author's GP to see if they can chase down the appointment my son is supposed to have been scheduled for a month ago, because our GP/specialist isn't doing it! I'm not a fan of the education system here though, at least not the beyond GCSEs part, unless you're at a top school and I cannot say that I've been impressed by the intellectualism here.  But I do like the way things aren't super-sized and strip-malled and lots of other things as well. 

[mumto2]

I always have to laugh at the comparison articles, my mom sends me many about what it is like living in the UK(she refuses to visit but I live here). Her paper had a weekly columnist describing her experiences which weren't great. I suspect her poor attitude made her highly unpopular with the people in her village and they let her suffer. Among her many problems were her laundry tabs, they wouldn't dissolve so her clothes stayed dirty. She actually published that we all wear dirty clothing here. Upset my mom greatly. I think she was putting them in the drawer, I put them directly in with the clothing per a nice strangers directions my first day here. Sorry for the rant but she was a huge problem my first couple of years here. I was so happy when she returned to the States and quit writing! :lol:

 

This article was actually pretty fair. We don't live in a particularly posh area but I have to say I just moved out of a recently built "condo"/terrace with a fabulous walk in closet. Of course it was just one for the whole house. Our new place came with a garbage disposal (our first flat had one too). My friend has a great basement. So these things can be found if you really want them.

[Cosmos]

Kind of a limited view though because some stuff he says isn't a certain way in the US is that way for some people here.

 

No kidding. "You will eat sandwiches in your office, not go out for lunch as is done daily in the US." LOL Oh, is that how we all do it here? Nobody ever told me that. And I've never had a house with a walk-in closet either, right here in the USA.

[Jenn121]

I lived in England twice as a child. The first time I was very young 3-5. We lived in Suffolk. I only really remember the rod and gun club. LOL

 

 

Around middle school age I lived in Oxfordshire in between Chipping Norton and Banbury.  I supposed that my transition was easier becasue I had a stepmother, stepbrother and stepsister that were English.

 

We had a proper washer and dryer. No garbage disposal but it was 1985-89 and it was an old house.  Loved the woodstove with a kettle on top to humidify the air ( my frist exposure to this)

I loved it. I loved being able to wander the feilds. The children on the other hand were wretched but that is not, I think, an English thing. ;)

Just that those children were not very nice to anything different from them.

 

The grand buildings, palaces, castles and grounds. I loved it!!  Being so close to so many other countries to visit.  Chocolate Digestive bisciuts and tea, real mint sauce (NOT Jelly) and lamb on a Sunday. Yorkshire pudding and roast potaotes, sausage and chips(I do not like fish), I could go on and on. I disagree with the concept that British food is boring and boiled.

 

I am sure there were things that I did not like but I cannot remember everything.  Oh I remember one thing I did not like....the sweet popcorn at the movies. :)

 

It has been 28 years and I am sure that I am romanticizing it some in my mind and this is all fromt he perspective of a child that did not have finacial worries on her horizion.  I would love, someday,  to bring my family to the places I frequented.

 

 

[Sarah CB]

Sigh.  That made me miss London.  Dh worked in the City for two years and homeschooling in London was pretty amazing.  We had our third child while out there so experienced a lot of the NHS.  I wasn't prepared for the culture shock - I really thought it would be the same as Victoria, BC.  It wasn't.

 

As much as we loved it, we're really happy to be back in Canada.  

[Sarah CB]

Oh, and we were willing to spend a small fortune to buy an "American" fridge.  I miss ordering my groceries online and hope that becomes a reality in Canada some day.

[Laura Corin]

Kind of a limited view though because some stuff he says isn't a certain way in the US is that way for some people here.

 

And vice versa.  She describes London as if all of England were like that.  Other parts of the country are cheaper to live (although salaries are lower again) and houses might be slightly larger - at least older ones.  New ones are almost all tiny.

 

One of the reasons we live in Scotland is that we can afford a bit of space.  I do have a walk-in wardrobe.  We can't have a waste disposal unit in the sink because it could overload our (rather ancient) septic tank.  We are lucky to have a lot of 'intellectual' pursuits available because we live near a university town and only an hour from Edinburgh.  I suspect that a lot of places are less lucky in this regard.

 

Eating out?  We have a flat in London that we rent out to young highly-paid (in UK terms) single professionals.  Some of them eat out/buy take aways for almost every meal.  On the other hand, even when Husband was fully employed, we ate out (at the local pub or somewhere similar) only rarely - perhaps five times a year.  With soft drinks and a tip, it would come to over £100 for four, which is what I spend on groceries for the week.

 

L

[sewingmama]

England sounds a lot like Australia. My Canadian DH has been living here 10 years now and I still have to tell him not to scrape the plates into the sink...we don't have garbage disposals....or basements for that matter. I wouldn't say we were cramped with clutter though...things are so expensive here we don't buy a lot of stuff. Dryers are optional here too... And yes we check the weather before hanging out clothes. Although in summer it hardly rains anyway and your clothes are dry within an hour. I do iron all my clothes...but thats just my thing...I hate feeling wrinkled and I don't mind ironing.

 

We do however...have a dishwasher ...although a lot of people don't. After having my first one when I lived in Canada I vowed I would never again live without one LOL.

[TravelingChris]

We lived in Belgium for three years.  It was much cheaper than England.  Our prices in Belgium were comparable to the US-somethings more expensive and some things less.  In Belgium, people had dryers, I believe, because I never saw clothes hanging up.  Unlike in Spain, there they didn't have dryers and the biggest reason was the inadequate electrical system.  In Belgium, people lived in normal sized houses compared to the US.  They didn't have closets because that wasn't something they were used to- they have wardrobes.  The food system was different there too.  There were many specialized shops everywhere plus supermarkets. People went shopping frequently to have fresh food.  I was much happier with medical care in Belgium but it was not nationalized like in Britain.  However, it was much, much cheaper and the waiting times were almost nil any time we went to the ER and two things they did differently medically in Belgium helped my health tremendously.  (One big difference, they put people who have leg fractures on blood thinners so I didn't get a DVT there while I did get one each time I broke my leg in the US- first time we didn't know until it turned into a PE, second time there really was no excuse).

[mumto2]

I do have a dryer (condenser type) for towels and sheets and a dishwasher. I also have a line for drying(as of our move last week) and several drying racks. I had those in the States too so my preference ), although in the States they were in my basement. ;) I hate to put jeans etc in the dryer, shrinkage. In this village I was a bit odd not to have a line so I finally joined the crowd. :lol:

 

Our area is fortunate because 30 minutes to a large University so plenty of intellectual opportunities. Lot of groups to join for special interests. There are places where these things do not exist in both countries.

 

Like Laura we spend about £100 per week on groceries. I tend to stock up on sale items so my spending can be a bit irregular. To be honest I think the quality of my purchases is higher here because of local butcher etc. We don't eat out frequently but can do the local pub's carvery for £35 without alcohol. Local carry outs cost roughly £15.

[OrganicAnn]

When I was a kid, I would have said the worse thing about England was the food and the toilet paper in public toilets (think wax paper).    We were visiting again in 2002 and both those things were vastly improved. 

 

I think that it is lot like comparing New York City to somewhere - cultural stuff, small apartments, no room for things like washer/dryers, etc.   

[Lady Florida.]

I can relate to the dryer issue. While the weather is totally different, here it's hard to hang clothes about 8 months of the year because of the heat, humidity, and high likelihood of rain during those months. Even if it doesn't rain, the clothes stay damp due to the humidity. I would be miserable without my dryer. Also, I hate to iron.

 

My good friend's husband was stationed in England as a U.S. serviceman on a British base back in the late 1980's. They lived off base, and I visited them several times, three weeks each visit. She and I would go to the market almost daily. I loved how so much was within walking distance, though I suppose that might be true in some U.S. cities. I needed medical care during my trip, and wasn't charged for the doctor visit or for the topical cream I was prescribed. 

 

The one thing that did surprise me was how friendly people were. It was "known" here that Brits are stand-offish. When we took trips to other parts of the country people on the trains were friendly, starting conversations with us (mostly out of curiosity when they heard our American accents). In London, we must have looked lost and confused, because on more than one occasion we were offered help finding a particular street or tourist attraction. Nearly everyone we came in contact with was open and friendly - the very opposite of how I thought it would be.

 

The author didn't say where she's from, but I chuckled when I read that it doesn't get very cold. Very cold is relative. My friend and I, as Florida girls, were freezing over there in July. Her husband, from upstate NY, didn't think it was that cold. :) The day before I left, it was in the 70's F. People thought it was hot!

 

The lack of regular sunshine would be the worst for me. That's not specific to Britain though, because it's also why I wouldn't want to live in the Pacific NW of the U.S. 

[maize]

No kidding. "You will eat sandwiches in your office, not go out for lunch as is done daily in the US." LOL Oh, is that how we all do it here? Nobody ever told me that. And I've never had a house with a walk-in closet either, right here in the USA.

The author does seem to have an incredibly narrow view of American lifestyles, which makes me distrust the broad assertions about British lifestyles.

 

I did wonder if some of the lifestyle differences might hinge on a lower tolerance for living on credit? I often think that much of the perceived wealth in middle class America is a mirage, because the big house and gas guzzling SUV and even dinners out are all being financed by debt?

[Mom in High Heels]

 

 

The grand buildings, palaces, castles and grounds. I loved it!!  Being so close to so many other countries to visit.  Chocolate Digestive bisciuts and tea, real mint sauce (NOT Jelly) and lamb on a Sunday. Yorkshire pudding and roast potaotes, sausage and chips(I do not like fish), I could go on and on. I disagree with the concept that British food is boring and boiled.

 

 

 

Oh, how I love the buildings, palaces, castles, grounds and museums in England!!!    It's also quite cheap to fly or take the rail to the continent.  Brits are everywhere on the weekend!  I also never had a problem with the food.  We loved going to dinner at the pubs and found it quite tasty.  The atmosphere was great fun too.  We did not get to live in England, but we went there as often as possible.  Once Indy and I flew from Karlsruhe to London (Stanstead) for 5 Euro each way!  McVities Chocolate Digestives!!!!!!  They are a gift to the world.  Fortunately, our commissary carries them, so I buy a box every other week or so, and hide them so no one else can find them.  They don't appreciate them nearly as much as I do!  ;)  My absolute favorite commercial was a McVities commercial, with a guy going to pick up a girl for a date.  She tells him she'll be right back, and warns him not to eat her roommates McVities.  He picks 2 up and places them in front of his eyes, then says in a whiny voice "Please don't eat my precious chocolate digestives!"  When he removes the cookies, both girls are standing there staring at him.  James Bond and I still do that every now and then (when I let him know we have them in the house!).

 

I can relate to the dryer issue. While the weather is totally different, here it's hard to hang clothes about 8 months of the year because of the heat, humidity, and high likelihood of rain during those months. Even if it doesn't rain, the clothes stay damp due to the humidity. I would be miserable without my dryer. Also, I hate to iron.

 

My good friend's husband was stationed in England as a U.S. serviceman on a British base back in the late 1980's. They lived off base, and I visited them several times, three weeks each visit. She and I would go to the market almost daily. I loved how so much was within walking distance, though I suppose that might be true in some U.S. cities. I needed medical care during my trip, and wasn't charged for the doctor visit or for the topical cream I was prescribed. 

 

The one thing that did surprise me was how friendly people were. It was "known" here that Brits are stand-offish. When we took trips to other parts of the country people on the trains were friendly, starting conversations with us (mostly out of curiosity when they heard our American accents). In London, we must have looked lost and confused, because on more than one occasion we were offered help finding a particular street or tourist attraction. Nearly everyone we came in contact with was open and friendly - the very opposite of how I thought it would be.

 

The author didn't say where she's from, but I chuckled when I read that it doesn't get very cold. Very cold is relative. My friend and I, as Florida girls, were freezing over there in July. Her husband, from upstate NY, didn't think it was that cold. :) The day before I left, it was in the 70's F. People thought it was hot!

 

The lack of regular sunshine would be the worst for me. That's not specific to Britain though, because it's also why I wouldn't want to live in the Pacific NW of the U.S. 

 

I hate to iron too.  Almost all my friends who live in Britain have dryers, because it's such a pain to get them to dry in the wacky weather.

 

Cold IS relative.  When our family would come visit us in Germany, they would be freezing in 50 degree weather, while we were gong without jackets.  They're from the deep south, and anything below 75 is cold to them!

 

We just moved to the PNW, and it's not that bad.  I was surprised by how often it's sunny, even if it's just for a few hours during the day.  The first 2 weeks we were here, we saw not one drop of rain and it was sunny every day.  Everyone we know who's lived in both Germany and the PNW told us the weather was similar.  They were not lying.  It's almost exactly the same.

[TeacherZee]

Only one of the flats/houses I lived in in the UK didn't have a dryer. And I never hung clothes outside. I've always had clothes I don't tumble dry because they don't do well in the dryer.

 

I never felt I lacked in material standards living there.

 

I ate out for lunch fairly often, even as a student.

 

But I wasn't in the South East Bubble for more than a year (and even then I was only on the edge).

[Alessandra]

I like the public footpaths in the UK. And the large scale Ordinance Survey maps.

 

I also miss the agrarian landscape, my favorite. Where I am in the U.S., it tends to be either houses or woods. Every.single.nature.preserve is forested land. What I would give for a glimpse of fields and sky!

[elegantlion]

She seems to be describing the American Suburban sprawl and, yes, debt based consumerism. I'm the American Midwest, my home was built in the 20s and has a walk in closet, sort of, quite big for this age of home. No coat closet though. When I worked in an office I'd go out about once a week, usually at the expense of eating a limited lunch for the rest of the week. 

 

I would love to live in England for a while, yes, I'd give up my American fridge and dryer. I don't dry my clothes now. I hang mine on the shower rod in the winter. My fridge is a vast wasteland of leftovers no one is going to eat. *sigh*

 

 

[Laura Corin]

I like the public footpaths in the UK. And the large scale Ordinance Survey maps.

 

I also miss the agrarian landscape, my favorite. Where I am in the U.S., it tends to be either houses or woods. Every.single.nature.preserve is forested land. What I would give for a glimpse of fields and sky!

 

Scotland is even better - there is public right to roam across all private estates.  You have to keep your dog on the lead and make sure your don't disturb farm or game animals, but otherwise you can just walk.

 

L

[Alessandra]

Scotland is even better - there is public right to roam across all private estates. You have to keep your dog on the lead and make sure your don't disturb farm or game animals, but otherwise you can just walk.

 

L

I envy you! Here you can end up walking by the side of a road. Other choice is woody nature center, no dogs allowed. Very either-or.

 

The one bright spot is our Atlantic beaches and marshes, which can be breathtakingly beautiful.

[Χά�ων]

Scotland is even better - there is public right to roam across all private estates.  You have to keep your dog on the lead and make sure your don't disturb farm or game animals, but otherwise you can just walk.

 

L

I am somewhat jealous. I cannot walk down the street without fearing that the idiot neighbor will allow he very aggressive dog to roam.

[Mandylubug]

Interesting article, thanks for sharing!

[Farrar]

But do the washers wring the clothes out?  My clothes here in the US come out quite wet from the washer, but when I lived in China, the washer wrung the clothes out so well that drying was much faster.  I always think that must be so much more efficient.  Though I still missed my dryer, I admit...

 

The space thing is so relative.  We live in a city in the US and have a lot less space than we could have if we chose to commute like so many Americans.  Most families we know also have pretty limited space in the close in suburbs.  I know that's not the picture of "America" but it's a similar sort of thing.  I mean, when he said that your wall may adjoin someone else's (gasp!) and you might have a garage if you're lucky I rolled my eyes a bit.  We have a rowhouse and count ourselves lucky to have a parking spot in the alley and a postage stamp yard in front and in back.

[maize]

Really? Private landowners have to let folks wander around their places? I wouldn't like that at all! There are no trespassing laws?

I think Sweden has a law like this, when I visited we went berry picking on a private estate. So much of the nice land has been tied up for centuries in large private estates, it seems really a shame for the public to have no access. Scotland sounds lovely.

[Mom in High Heels]

Are these ramblers paying property taxes? What happens when they fall down and break a leg or a cow charges? The landowner will be sued...

 

Europeans do not seem to be as sue happy as Americans.  They are about personal responsibility.  We were allowed on most private property in Germany.  Loads of people just wander around, picnic and enjoy the scenery.  IIRC, animal pens are out of bounds, but if you're dumb enough to climb into an animal enclosure, that's you're own fault.  

[JennyD]

Are these ramblers paying property taxes? What happens when they fall down and break a leg or a cow charges? The landowner will be sued...

 

My very limited understanding is that if you own a piece of property with a public right of way, that entails an obligation to maintain the byway and allow access, but also limits your liability somewhat.  As far as I know (Laura would know more) this public access to footpaths is a longstanding feature of English property law; it used to be governed by common law but is now a matter of statute.  Here's what looks like a good summary of current law:

 

https://www.gov.uk/public-rights-of-way-rights-and-responsibilities

[momma2three]

In America most of what you're suing for is medical costs, and that's not an issue in Scotland!

[Laura Corin]

Really? Private landowners have to let folks wander around their places? I wouldn't like that at all! There are no trespassing laws?

 

You have the right to bar people from your curtilage (essentially an area around the house encompassing what would be a yard or garden).  The rest is free for roaming.  We have three acres, of which one would be considered curtilage.  So the rest is available for roaming.  In practice it doesn't happen, because we are not on the way to anywhere....

 

The land in Scotland was traditionally free for roaming before the Clearances of the 19th century, which threw people off their land and forced them into marginal crofts on the sea shore.  The productive land was given over to sheep and game shooting.  The law in a very tiny degree redresses that injustice.  ETA: would it parallel a situation where Native Americans were given right to roam over their traditional pre-settler lands?

 

England, being more populous, has traditional rights of way that criss-cross most private land and which the landowner has no right to bar.  To this has been added right to roam across areas of private land such as moorland and heath.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

Are these ramblers paying property taxes? What happens when they fall down and break a leg or a cow charges? The landowner will be sued...

 

The ramblers pay property taxes on their own houses - there isn't property tax on land here.  It's written into the legislation that ramblers cross at their own risk.  Injuries are treated by the NHS.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

But do the washers wring the clothes out?  My clothes here in the US come out quite wet from the washer, but when I lived in China, the washer wrung the clothes out so well that drying was much faster.  

 

 

We do have a dryer (which lives in our spare room unless we have guests, in which case it is hauled into our bedroom) but many washers have variable spin speed - you can choose how fast the machine spins (including very fast) based on desired dryness/wrinkliness.

 

L

[Melissa in Australia]

I line dry and never iron.

[TeacherZee]

I think Sweden has a law like this, when I visited we went berry picking on a private estate. So much of the nice land has been tied up for centuries in large private estates, it seems really a shame for the public to have no access. Scotland sounds lovely.

 

Yes, we have rambling rights in Sweden as well.

 

Are these ramblers paying property taxes? What happens when they fall down and break a leg or a cow charges? The landowner will be sued...

 

 

The ramblers pay property taxes on their own houses - there isn't property tax on land here.  It's written into the legislation that ramblers cross at their own risk.  Injuries are treated by the NHS.

 

L

 

This is true in Sweden.

 

In Sweden you don't have to keep up roads/footpaths and people enter on their own risk. Why would I sue someone if I was stupid enough to get mauled by a cow.

 

My washer "wrings out" the clothes. How much depends on what spin cycle I put it on.

[Spy Car]

Is the lack of dryers a "space" issue?

 

In my young working life I rented a nice Spanish style "casita," that I loved, but there was no room for a traditional American style washer and dryer, and going to laundromats was not fun. So I found a European style (made in Italy) little unit that both washed and dried in the same machine. I was an "Equator" brand, but I think it was made by Simplex (under many names).

 

This thing spun really (really)to get the clothes as dry as possible through "spin.' Then it went into a conduction/condenser mode (where the clothes never got hot) where they finished drying.

 

I thought this machine was brilliant (and it was small). Do you have those in the UK?

 

The only down side was the loads were small and took longer than traditional washer dryers, not practical for big families I would think. But I liked it.

 

Bill

[nmoira]

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

Do you have evidence that the above destruction happens on a significant scale in places where rambling is allowed? Or is it just speculation?

[Mom in High Heels]

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

 

 

 

I'm fairly certain it's only a ROW, not a camp ground.  I think they can only have access to the property for things such as walking, running and picnicking.  And Europeans, IME, are incredibly conscientious about cleaning up after themselves when they're out in the "country."  

[momma2three]

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

 

Dot says:

Apparently a country governed and populated by people much more mature, intelligent, and nature-loving than the US. Looks like they've had that great working system for quite a while.

 

 

Gosh, Dot, I didn't realize that wanting to keep my place clean and untrashed was immature and unintelligent. So, when should I expect you to come fix fence? The hunters left trash up in the cut last weekend--when will you be by to clean that up? Since you're a nature-lover... I'll be happy to send you the bill for the cows that were shot--address please? And whilst you're at it, when will you be sending back all the antlers stolen off my place in the last year?

 

I have no problem with skiers/hikers on platted rights-of-way. I DO have a problem with trespassers.

 

On the walks in the English countryside that I've taken, there aren't really gates, but more style (is that what it's called?  I can't remember) things that people can get through but cows can't.  There's usually a narrow switch-back between 2 or 3 little walls, sometimes with a swinging gate that shuts one end of the style (?) when it opens the other end.  So it's all set up to make sure that animals don't get out.

 

I think hunting isn't very big in the areas in question.

[mumto2]

 

We do have washer/dryer combis here. Personally I found that they took way too long to do one small load. About 4 hours. I have also heard they are prone to breaking quicker -- no experience with that. My condenser dryer can be put pretty much anyplace. It is currently in my pantry and working wonderfully. I just moved in to this house and feeling quite relieved. ;)

 

 

 

Is the lack of dryers a "space" issue?

 

In my young working life I rented a nice Spanish style "casita," that I loved, but there was no room for a traditional American style washer and dryer, and going to laundromats was not fun. So I found a European style (made in Italy) little unit that both washed and dried in the same machine. I was an "Equator" brand, but I think it was made by Simplex (under many names).

 

This thing spun really (really)to get the clothes as dry as possible through "spin.' Then it went into a conduction/condenser mode (where the clothes never got hot) where they finished drying.

 

I thought this machine was brilliant (and it was small). Do you have those in the UK?

 

The only down side was the loads were small and took longer than traditional washer dryers, not practical for big families I would think. But I liked it.

 

Bill

[Mrs Mungo]

Really? Private landowners have to let folks wander around their places? I wouldn't like that at all! There are no trespassing laws?

Lots of countries *and US states* have public access/right-of-way laws that can potentially affect private landowners.

 

Are these ramblers paying property taxes? What happens when they fall down and break a leg or a cow charges? The landowner will be sued...

In my experience, most of these are considered *public access*, which means that a property owner would not be charged. And when you're talking about Europe, remember, they have a MUCH better social safety nets, which means they are far less litigious. They don't generally have to worry about medical costs. 

 

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

 

Dot says:

Apparently a country governed and populated by people much more mature, intelligent, and nature-loving than the US. Looks like they've had that great working system for quite a while.

 

 

Gosh, Dot, I didn't realize that wanting to keep my place clean and untrashed was immature and unintelligent. So, when should I expect you to come fix fence? The hunters left trash up in the cut last weekend--when will you be by to clean that up? Since you're a nature-lover... I'll be happy to send you the bill for the cows that were shot--address please? And whilst you're at it, when will you be sending back all the antlers stolen off my place in the last year?

 

I have no problem with skiers/hikers on platted rights-of-way. I DO have a problem with trespassers.

Generally speaking camping, fires and activities like that are not allowed. Activities like hunting and shooting are not NEARLY as common in Europe as they are in the US. You are talking about completely different mindsets in that regard. 

[mumto2]

In my part of England the gates/styles are maintained by local walking clubs not the landowners. The wild pheasant/bird hunting is owned by people other than the land owner. I think you might be able to hunt on your own land but not sure because some of the birds are released for the season. Paid group hunts. The person that owns the hunting rights for our village owns an area that goes about 3 miles north of us. Fishing rights are owned also. Never heard of deer hunting probably because most are farmed on large estates.

 

People here are honestly significantly more respectful of the footpaths then they would be in the States. I grew up on farms in the US where we did have a significant tourist/trespasser problem. Coming from my background I found the whole thing cringe worthy when we first moved here. It works at least in my little part of the UK. The dogs even off lead are incredibly well behaved if they are on the footpaths. No jumping on people or chasing animals ever seen and we walk several miles a day. The only camping by footpaths involves the children of the landowner. The worst problem I know of is a pony who begs unmercifully so people feed him. He is really fat and the owner is upset. Pony has been moved away from path -- looks quite sad about it too.

 

 

On the walks in the English countryside that I've taken, there aren't really gates, but more style (is that what it's called?  I can't remember) things that people can get through but cows can't.  There's usually a narrow switch-back between 2 or 3 little walls, sometimes with a swinging gate that shuts one end of the style (?) when it opens the other end.  So it's all set up to make sure that animals don't get out.

 

 

 

I think hunting isn't very big inthe areas in question.

[TravelingChris]

Margaret,  lawsuits in Europe are very different than in the United States.  FIrst of all, to sue someone, you have to put up a bond that will pay the defense's lawyers if you lose because they have loser pays system, unlike ours.  Also, the system does not reward idiocy= so a person misusing an appliance or tool doesn't get to sue=  unlike in the US.  We have all those stupid warning like on the lawnmowers not to use to cut shrubbery because someone did and won.  No one would win over there for doing something like using a lawnmower to trim bushes.  Tools are much cheaper there because of the tort protections.  Playgrounds are so much better because parents assume the risks if their kid falls down. Also, I don't know about English hunting laws, but in Belgium, you have to pass tests to get a license- and it is not an easy test.  In Germany, to get a fishing license, you have to basically memorize a huge volume of information about fish species, fish behavior, etc. 

[TeacherZee]

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

 

Dot says:

Apparently a country governed and populated by people much more mature, intelligent, and nature-loving than the US. Looks like they've had that great working system for quite a while.

 

 

Gosh, Dot, I didn't realize that wanting to keep my place clean and untrashed was immature and unintelligent. So, when should I expect you to come fix fence? The hunters left trash up in the cut last weekend--when will you be by to clean that up? Since you're a nature-lover... I'll be happy to send you the bill for the cows that were shot--address please? And whilst you're at it, when will you be sending back all the antlers stolen off my place in the last year?

 

I have no problem with skiers/hikers on platted rights-of-way. I DO have a problem with trespassers.

 

1. Hunting without a hunting licence is illegal and you will be prosecuted. As gun ownership is lower it isn't really a problem.

 

2. You have to pick up after yourself. Littering is illegal as is dumping. This is part of the right to roam.

[nmoira]

I have plenty of evidence that it happens where it is not allowed. Perhaps all Europeans just never do that sort of thing--rather doubtful, knowing human nature.

I'll take that as a "no" then. Why take umbrage on behalf of folks who don't seem to be complaining? :)

[Laura Corin]

So, the ramblers can come on to your property, set up fire rings and plan on camping for days??? Who picks up all the trash? Who cleans up the gut pile from poaching? Who repairs the downed fences? Who deals with the cows wandering free when gates are left open?

 

 

No one said anything about fire rings or camping for days - ramblers walk through.  They follow the country code, which means that it's rare for a gate to be left open or rubbish to be left.  They are not allowed to hunt or damage property - those are police matters.  But largely it's an honour code and is not often abused.

 

As a pp mentioned, there are plentiful stiles and kissing gates, as well as cattle grids, so livestock gates are not so often used by walkers.

 

You seem.... worried by the idea, Margaret, but you can be sure that if it didn't work in Scotland and other democratic countries, then the laws would be changed.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

I have plenty of evidence that it happens where it is not allowed. Perhaps all Europeans just never do that sort of thing--rather doubtful, knowing human nature.

 

If someone is already behaving illegally - trespassing under US law - what incentive is there for them to tidy up after themselves and behave decently?  A law-abiding Scot taking a ramble across private land is working within society's norms and, in general, behaves as decently as s/he would in any other public place.  I'm not a big landowner, but I do walk a lot.  I see very little litter and damage.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

I thought this machine was brilliant (and it was small). Do you have those in the UK?

 

The only down side was the loads were small and took longer than traditional washer dryers, not practical for big families I would think. But I liked it.

 

Bill

 

Something similar is often installed here but, in my experience, people use the washer cycle but not the dryer because, as you mention, they don't work well for family loads.

 

L

[Spy Car]

Margaret, lawsuits in Europe are very different than in the United States. FIrst of all, to sue someone, you have to put up a bond that will pay the defense's lawyers if you lose because they have loser pays system, unlike ours. Also, the system does not reward idiocy= so a person misusing an appliance or tool doesn't get to sue= unlike in the US. We have all those stupid warning like on the lawnmowers not to use to cut shrubbery because someone did and won. No one would win over there for doing something like using a lawnmower to trim bushes. Tools are much cheaper there because of the tort protections. Playgrounds are so much better because parents assume the risks if their kid falls down. Also, I don't know about English hunting laws, but in Belgium, you have to pass tests to get a license- and it is not an easy test. In Germany, to get a fishing license, you have to basically memorize a huge volume of information about fish species, fish behavior, etc.

How does it follow that playgrounds (or anything else) would be safer if users take their own risks and facility providers are insulated from possible negligence and/or responsability for building unsafe playgrounds?

 

I share feeling about frivolous lawsuits, but also see that legal exposure to lawsuits motivates companies and entities to take care for safety concerns. How is this better?

 

Bill

[TeacherZee]

I don't know if playgrounds are safer here, but most of them are funded by public money, and thus the public would put up a stink if they aren't safe. Playgrounds will be discussed at local council meetings, letters to the editors sent. There is an understanding that children's safety is important to all of us because (as clichéd as it sounds) the children are our future. This is also the reason why everyone has an opinion about schools, even when they don't have children. Why they don't mind taxes going to schools.

[Meriwether]

How does it follow that playgrounds (or anything else) would be safer if users take their own risks and facility providers are insulated from possible negligence and/or responsability for building unsafe playgrounds?

 

I share feeling about frivolous lawsuits, but also see that legal exposure to lawsuits motivates companies and entities to take care for safety concerns. How is this better?

 

Bill

I think better in this case means more fun.

[Mom in High Heels]

How does it follow that playgrounds (or anything else) would be safer if users take their own risks and facility providers are insulated from possible negligence and/or responsability for building unsafe playgrounds?

 

I share feeling about frivolous lawsuits, but also see that legal exposure to lawsuits motivates companies and entities to take care for safety concerns. How is this better?

 

Bill

 

 

I can't answer for her, but from the way I read it, she meant "better" as in having more equipment and exciting things to do, because parents are responsible for their children's welfare.  The know they can't sue if their kid falls off a piece of equipment and gets hurt.  The parks we went to were always well maintained (I think the city/state is responsible for that, as they own the park) and includes equipment that is generally no longer found in most playgrounds today is the US.  There are really high (and I mean crazy high) towers, slides, climbing apparatus,  rope slides where you sit on a disk or hang by your hands and slide down from at least 10 feet and very high complicated rope climbing things (I have a photo somewhere of Indy on one, I'll see if I can find it) that look scary and dangerous.  If the parents feel it's dangerous, they keep their kids off.  If they don't, and a kid falls, well, they fall and the city/state is not at fault.  Personal responsibility is a big deal.