How do you fit in the "extras"?

[Wonder]

I'd love to be able to do more of the "extras," and I was wondering if any of you can elaborate on what that looks like for you?  How do you "fit" it into your day/schedule?

 

As of now, we usually start school at 8:00 and we're done around 3:00ish.  I really don't want "school" to last longer than that.  This includes about a half hour break in the morning and a one hour lunch break.  The first hour after lunch is "reading time" for the oldest, and the youngers usually read for about 30 min. of that time.

 

I'm specifically wondering about things like Latin and Art.  I LOVE art and want my girls to love it, too, but so far we haven't done any sort of lessons.  I have the Drawing with Children book and I'd like to use things out of that.  We sometimes get artist books at the library and read about their lives, etc. (we've been getting World's Greatest Artists, as well as the Composers).  I have Prima Latina but haven't touched it.  So I was thinking I could wait until January to start Prima Latina (which would give the youngers a better chance to be ready for it).  In the meantime, I could do art lessons for the rest of this "semester," maybe.

 

It just seems like, in order to fit it in, something "important" will have to go.  So I'd love to hear how some of you DO the extras. :)  Thanks!

[Farrar]

I have tried different things.  Typically, I institute a system, it works for awhile, it falls by the wayside, I institute another system, lather, rinse, repeat.

 

But I'm okay with that. :D

 

One way we fit in little things for logic and and quick art exercises (among other things) is that we do morning work.  My kids get up early, before me most of the time.  I leave out something for them to do once they've gotten up, gotten some cereal, and settled in a bit.  It keeps from from literally bounding out the door and leaving for the park before I even wake up. ;)  But it's good for leaving out logic puzzles and quick drawing exercises and then we talk about it as we start the "real" schooling in the morning.

 

I also have scheduled things for once a week sometimes.  Mostly I just have to decide I'm going to do it.  For something like Latin, I think you just have to make room in your schedule if it's important to you.  One of the nice things about something like nature studies or art or logic is that you don't have to do it continually - you can suddenly have more and then less and it's not a big deal.  But Latin you probably need to keep up like math if you want to really "do" it.

[Χά�ων]

That is a lot of time for the ages of your kiddos. :confused1:

 

DS was taking forever last fall to get everything accomplished. In January of this year I joined a gym and started going to the morning classes. We were up by 4am to work out 5-7. The really insane thing? What was taking 5 hours was all done by 10am the days we were up early. I cannot explain it, but it works.

 

 

This school year hasn't been as easy. DS has an unusual schedule to accommodate his sport/fitness needs. He does conditioning/workouts 2-4 hours a day and speed skates 3 times a week for 3-4 hours each time. I have gone from daily subjects to spending longer periods of time on one subject once a week.

 

Science

DS spends 2-3 hours a week, usually on the weekend on science. It allows time to follow bunny trails and really immerse himself into the topics.

He is doing NOEO Biology II and should finish it in December. He will then move on to Sassafras Zoology in January and will do a couple of units from Ellen McHenry's Basement (Cells and Botany). If he likes Sassafras I will probably get the Anatomy books. He is really interested in landscaping so I will work with him to plan out landscaping around my house in the cold months and then will head outside when spring arrives.

 

Math

I am using a curriculum from a small local private school. DS is flying throw it and only spending 30 minutes-1 hour a day on it. I am in no hurry to start pre-algebra. I include 100 problems of math facts to keep them strong in his mind. Math is daily.

 

History

DS is using The Story of Us. He listens to it in the car, then spends 15-20 minutes a day working on his timeline. We discuss it as it happens and then DS listens to it again. We are rural so every time we go to town it is an hour drive.

 

Reading

DS is severely dyslexia. He goes to a Barton tutoring place 2x a week and gets additional tutoring 1x/week

 

Last year DS did a grammar/language arts program and handwriting. He did the entire year of grammar in two months. He never spent more than 45 minutes on the two subjects.

 

 

[Arcadia]

My kids do a Sunday drop in art class. They do art whenever they feel like it on weekdays after their school work. For music, they do it in 10-15 mins break throughout the day. They attend german school on Saturday for 2.5hrs. On weekdays, they revise for 10-15mins as well as do the assigned german homework. Their leisure reading time is after dinner and sometimes during breakfast if they woke up earlier than usual.

[MerryAtHope]

We fit in art by signing up for lessons with someone local (like 6 week or 8 week classes that met once a week in the fall or spring, or a summer workshop). Then I kept lots of materials on hand for when the kids wanted to dabble. This worked better for us than me trying to teach art from a book or curriculum. 

 

As for foreign language...never did get it in until high school. But they are enjoying it now!

[Lori D.]

I'd love to be able to do more of the "extras," ... How do you "fit" it into your day/schedule?

 

... we usually start school at 8:00 and we're done around 3:00ish... half hour break in the morning and a one hour lunch break...

 

 

That sure seems like a LONG day for ages 9yo and 6yo! That's 5.5 hours of schooling spread out over 7 hours! Much more typical: about 4 hours of school work for a 4th grader (with maybe an additional 30-60 min. of wasted time if they are a doodler/daydreamer), and about 2-3 hours of school work for grade 1-2 students (with maybe 30-45 min. of wasted time on top). I had one who was hard to keep on task, so our 3-4 hours of schooling typically took an extra 30-60 minutes for pencil-dropping, day-dreaming, and re-directing to get him back on task -- BUT, even so, that only made for about 4.5 hours total to get all the schooling done in those early elementary ages, AND both DSs were really "needy" of mom being right there... 7 hours would have killed ME!

 

Some suggestions for shortening up your day, and for working in the "extras":

 

- Combine your DC for History, Geography, Science, Latin, Music, and Art. (Just have the 9yo do a little extra independent work -- writing, narration, reading of a solo book, etc. -- to bump up the work level a little.)

 

- Try solo reading as an optional activity for in the evenings/weekends or if that's what they want to do in the afternoons when school is done. It allows you to use everyone's very focused time getting through the bulk of your hard work in the morning when everyone is most productive.

 

- Go for 2 or 3 short "bursts" of concentrated learning (15 min.) to cover a subject that is more of a struggle; more than 15-20 minutes, and most of the concentration is gone, and it becomes all about pencil-dropping and day-dreaming -- mostly wasted time (similar to the Law of Diminishing Returns). So do one "burst" in the morning, and then another "burst" later in the morning or in the afternoon.

 

- Don't do EVERY subject every day. Example:

5 days/week = approx. 30 min. total = read aloud

4 days/week = approx. 90-100 min. total = math (30), reading (30), narration or writing, spelling

3 days week = approx. 45-60 min. total = grammar, handwriting, phonics, latin

2 days/week = approx. 60 min. total = history -- and on alternate 2 days/week -- science

1 day/week = approx. 45-60 min. total = music, art, geography

 

OR, drop a different one of the more time-consuming subjects each day, so math, reading, history, science, and writing/grammar/spelling are each done 4 days a week rather than 5.

 

OR, try loop scheduling -- get through whatever works out to do well, and stop at your designated stop time, leaving some of the scheduled material undone. The next day, pick up where you left off and continue through your material and finish getting through your subjects, and loop back to the first subjects again, going until you hit your designated stop time. Pick up the next day where you left off...

 

- Careful overlapping of your students, so time is used as efficiently as possible. Example: while you're working for 30 min. one-on-one with the 9yo, the 6yos have something they can confidently accomplish on their own (reading, educational computer game, worksheet, handwriting practice, spelling practice, math facts drill, etc.); then shift and the 9yo has 30 min. of solo work/reading/writing/whatever, while you work with one or both of the 6yos.

 

- Do some things orally to speed it up -- math fact drill; spelling practice; grammar...

 

- Just do selected problems, not every problem, in a lesson. Or spread the lesson out over 2 days.

 

- Go for shorter days and a longer school year (say, 42 weeks rather than 36).

 

- Do some read alouds in the evening and weekends, or listen to them as audio books while driving, rather than doing them all during the school hours.

[lewelma]

We do art, drama, tennis lessons etc during the school holidays.

 

We don't do intensive history which makes room for more violin.

 

We compact curricula so it takes less time -- basically skipping stuff I either don't like or my kids find boring or easy.

 

We don't do ANY busy work and don't make anything pretty (except violin music!)

 

Ruth in NZ

[sewingmama]

I don't consider those hours terrible. Mine are 7&6 and we start at 9 and go till 3 or 4 depending on how slow they are ...with a half hour break mid morning and a half hour break at lunch and we STILL don't fit everything in. My kids are combined for everything too... 6yo is advanced and works at same level as 7yo.

 

I just happen to live in a State where I have to teach 8 subjects ...I can't get away with just reading, writing and math and I can't fudge and call "running around the backyard" PE.

 

My kids don't think of art as school so we leave it till the school day is finished and I will set up a project that they work on while I get dinner ready. Music is still a flop here...still trying to figure that one out.

 

I squeeze some things at bedtime read aloud time...like watching a few things on the Ipad or doing some of our online work then.

 

I agree with PP ...those things are not extras here...they are core and have to get done.

 

However you can combine some of them into your regular studies. For example we are learning about the body for health and for art we made a model of the kids bodies...kills two birds with one stone. Whilst you are doing math you can teach the kids some songs about skip counting...so music and math. You can have your kids write an essay about a history subject they are learning about....english and history are done in one go. You can have the kids dramatise a book they have been reading...drama/literature done.

 

I find combining subjects and skills like this make things run much more efficiently.

[8filltheheart]

I personally don't see any value in Latin prior to about 5th grade.   Latin requires a strong understanding of grammar.   Starting around 5th/6th grade (depends on the student), it becomes core, not an "extra."

 

 

[RootAnn]

I sneak art in through other subjects (history projects from SOTW or drawings using Drawing Through History, science - we just 'drew' pictures of definitions of geological formations like forests, islands, glaciers, etc., geography (Ellen McHenry's Mapping the World With Art), and even spelling (making a pretty bow out of spelling words). Otherwise, I have lots of art supplies around for them to do it on their own.

 

I carve room for Latin where I can. 

 

I echo the other posters that it seems like a long day for your young'uns. *hugs*

[Soror]

Hmm, looking at your curriculum I'm wondering why it is taking that long. We do similarly and can get it down in about 4ish hrs w/ a bit of a break in the middle. WE avg 1.5 for LA- grammar, poetry, composition, penmanship, spelling(MCT- LoE Essentials, WR1-1 lesson a week, WW3(about 2-3 days worth a week), Math is about 1 hr and Science and History are about 20-40 minutes per day. When we start at 8 we are done by lunch. Ds reads on his own for lit and we watch documentaries and such at other times but that is pretty loose. I'm not doing Latin yet as I didn't feel his grammar was strong enough and we should focus on other areas first. Art and other extras are done when we want, often loosely in the afternoons, it seems to be working well. We are using DrawSquad and Atelier. I have the Vox Music Masters for music appreciation, which although low- key gets done and is good exposure. Anyway, we work hard to get a core done in the am, especially skills, content is more interest lead and fun but I try hard to make sure we are finished by lunch so that we have an afternoon free and can explore interests and leave plenty of time for free play.

[5LittleMonkeys]

We don't do every subject every day.

 

(I'm only including my 5th, 2nd, and PreK in this schedule since my older two make their own weekly schedules)

 

• Monday we have co-op in the morning and then I run a mini science co-op in the afternoon where we do our experiments for the week. 
• Tuesday is all of LA, Latin for the 5th, science reading, history, and math
• Wednesday is all of LA, Latin for the 5th, math, logic, and I run mini art co-op in the afternoon
• Thursday is all of LA, Latin for the 5th, science reading, history, and math
• Friday is all of LA, Latin for the 5th, math, logic, and then project based exploration in the afternoon (right now we are trying to do a field study of our creek and surrounding area)

I agree with others that if it's taking you until 3 everyday just to get through the basics, science and history then you might need to re-evaluate.  One thing that saves me a lot of time is to use certain subjects to do double duty.  For example, we don't use a separate writing program - we write across the curriculum . We don't do a grammar program with ds yet, and dd learns grammar through Latin (we will do AG in middle school). Spelling, punctuation, and usage is done through our writing.  

 

I also limit certain lessons to an amount of time, not necessarily until a whole lesson is finished. Math for ds is 30 minutes; it's 40 minutes for dd.  Penmanship was, up until recently, done while doing our normal writing but they each requested a workbook so I'm not willing to spend a lot of time on it.  I set the timer for 10 minutes for it. Phonics for ds is set for 30 minutes.  Independent reading is set for 30 minutes for dd; it's set for 20 for ds.

 

**Edited to add after I went back and re-read your post:  How about moving the hour of reading time after lunch to the evening.  Part of why I don't schedule more than 30 minutes of reading time for dd during the day is because she always reads for about 30 minutes before bed too...same with ds but with different times. 

[Wonder]

Wow - I had no idea that maybe we're taking way too long!  My oldest DD esp. can be a rather slow worker, but I think writing is the biggest thing that takes up a lot of time.  I don't see how we can even get a whole W&R lesson done in a week.  Her amplifications, for example, are QUITE amplified.  W&R is usually spread out over a couple weeks (and not done every single day).  I've tried different things to help DD9 work more efficiently.  Some days are better than others.  For a while, I had her work upstairs on some independent work, but she is definitely a "social learner," so that was out.  When we're all working at things at the table (or in the living room nearby), DD9 gets quite distracted with what I'm working on with the other two, although this IS improving.  

 

We DO already incorporate some "art" in things like science and history, but I guess I just wanted to do a bit of more "formal" art, too.  After reading all these responses, I'm feeling like I shouldn't have even spent the money on Prima Latina.  I guess I thought that, if I wait, DD9 will need something different, as I think PL is pretty easy?

 

Since my DDs have been in the public school system, I guess I also have had this mentality that they need to get "caught up," but maybe I need to relax a bit. :)  I don't see how we can do math just 4 days per week though, esp. with DD9.  She's only in CLE 300 (book 308 right now), and I wanted her to get caught up to "grade level."  As it is, I figured we would do 'some' math over the summer.  But we DO want a summer break (where we'll just do a bit of math, reading, and lots of outside time).

 

So here's how a typical day looks:

 

Start school around 8:00.  Maybe listen to and sing along with a song or two before 8:00.  

First is math.  I work with DDs6 while DD9 works independently for the most part.  Then everyone does penmanship.  DDs6 still need some guidance with this.  While DDs6 do their flashcards together, I do flash cards with DD9.  

9:00 (or sometimes later for DD9 since math can take quite a while for her some days).  I do the Handbook for Reading with DDs6 while DD9 does spelling on her own.  When she finishes with that, she'll usually go on to grammar (if it's a lesson she can do mostly on her own).  After the Handbook, one of DDs 6 will read out loud to me while the other does Abeka Letters and Sounds and Language pages. They might also do a page or two of ETC.  I know the Abeka Language and ETC aren't listed in my siggy.  I just got a couple of ETC books for the twins, but maybe it's too much "busy work"?  I just want them to do something productive while I'm working one on one with someone, because otherwise they'll just get into trouble. :)  Sometimes one will do Starfall while I'm working with the other one.

10:00 - break/snack time.  I often can check DD9s work.

10:30 - DD9 will correct her work in math and spelling.  DDs6 do Starfall, a puzzle, or math shape tiles or something like that while I work with DD9 on grammar and/or writing.  

11:00 - I do FLL or WWE with DDs6

11:15 - Help DD9 finish things up

11:30 - Read Aloud

12:00 - lunch prep, hubby comes home for lunch, lots of talking and getting wiggles out, etc.

1:00 - Reading/rest time.  I have some health issues so this rest time is important for me, too.  I also have to be careful that I make time for myself to eat snacks here and there as I've had some issues with hypoglycemia at times.

2:00 - history or science (history usually includes a written narration (though sometimes I write it for DDs6) - Science sometimes includes a bit of narration (but the ES we're using is geared more for 2nd/3rd, not 4th)

3:00 - done

 

So, as you see, DDs6 aren't working on "school" that entire time.  I DO need to make a scheduled time for their reading, esp. for DD9.  She won't just "choose" to read on her own usually.  We live in a rural kind of area, but there are actually TONS of neighbor kids close by.  So DDs always want to go out to play with their friends in the afternoon.  Besides Wednesday night (Awana), we sometimes do some read alouds at night (sometimes Bible), but not always.  Sometimes we have too much going on in the evenings for that.  I can't usually do Read Alouds at lunch, because by then I need to make sure that I eat something.

 

Any suggestions for our routine would be greatly appreciated, although you've already given a lot of great ideas.  I guess, for writing, maybe my expectations are too high?  For example, for DD9...if she does a history narration, does she also need to do W&R that day?  Or is that too much?  I also got the Killgallon book recently (Sentence Composing) and thought we could do that maybe one day a week?

 

Thanks so much for your help, everyone!  It sure would be a relief if I could work it out for our day to be a bit shorter. :)

[maize]

We don't do grammar, composition, spelling, or vocabulary in the early grades; instead we do foreign language and music. My kids read a lot, and that is in my opinion the most critical language arts component in the grammar stage. My ten year old has asked to do formal grammar this year, but that won't be more than once or twice a week.

[Mavy]

I fit in all my extras on Fridays. We do art, music, nature walks, discovery math, typing, and Spanish. I think your schedule sounds fine if it is working for you :)

[Lori D.]

... I just wanted to do a bit of more "formal" art...

 

... here's how a typical day looks....

8:00  ... song or two... math... penmanship... flashcards

9:00 ... Handbook for Reading... spelling... grammar... Abeka Letters and Sounds and Language... ETC... 

10:00 - break/snack time... check DD9s work.

10:30 - Starfall, a puzzle, or math shape tiles...  I work with DD9 on grammar and/or writing...  

11:00 - ... FLL or WWE with DDs6

11:15 - Help DD9 finish things up

11:30 - Read Aloud

12:00 - lunch 

1:00 - Reading/rest time.

2:00 - history or science

3:00 - done

 

Sounds like you've got a good morning routine! The only things I'd suggest:

1. grammar doesn't have to be more than 3 days/week for everyone, which would give you 20-30 min on 2 days/week for something else -- Latin, perhaps

2. switch out the the read aloud to the evening at bedtime, and use that half hour for Latin 3x/week, and Art for 2x/week, and see how that goes for the next month

 

The nice thing is, everyone is young and flexible, you've got LOTS of years ahead of you to have the time now to try out different kinds of scheduling.)

 

Sounds like you've also got a good afternoon routine -- what is needed by everyone. The only thing I'd suggest: keep History and Science each to 2 days a week, and use that 5th afternoon a week for flexibility, for a short day each week, or for outside activities -- field trip, homeschool group, a class, etc. OR, if it really doesn't work to shift read aloud to the evening, then keep read aloud before lunch and use that 5th afternoon as your Art hour, and hold off on Latin until about 5th grade as 8FillTheHeart suggested (OR drop grammar to 3 days/week and use the other 2 days/week for Latin).

 

 

 for writing, maybe my expectations are too high?  For example, for DD9...if she does a history narration, does she also need to do W&R that day?  Or is that too much?  I also got the Killgallon book recently (Sentence Composing) and thought we could do that maybe one day a week?

 

 

As for length of day / length of subjects -- I found that my DSs only had so much "brain battery power" in a day for each subject. For grades 3-4, they did 3 very short "bursts" of writing, interspersed by non-writing schooling:

 

1.) 2-3 sentences of copywork / penmanship

... do other non-writing activity...

2.) 3-5 sentences, or 10-15 minutes (narration; OR journal entry from a prompt; OR part of a writing lesson; OR part of short writing assignment for history; OR part of a book report...)

 

... do other non-writing activity...

3.) continue from where we left off with 2.), or, a separate 3-5 sentences or 10-15 minutes of writing of some kind

 

I also found it helpful with writing to have some variety -- so, as you're suggesting use your W&R (which, I'm sorry, I couldn't figure out what curriculum that is), and some days swap it out for Killgallon, or some other type of writing.

 

 

 

... Since my DDs have been in the public school system, I guess I also have had this mentality that they need to get "caught up,"... DD9... only in CLE Math 300 (book 308 right now), and I wanted her to get caught up to "grade level."...

 

One thing I note: your oldest is 9yo, which is typically 3rd grade age, and is doing grade 3 math, yet you are thinking she is behind? Sounds like she IS working at grade level, and for reading is ahead... That is often the case with children, working at different grade levels in different subjects until about grade 5 when it all seems to settle down and they are mostly working at the similar grade level for all their subjects.

 

Gently, I'd suggest viewing 9yo DD as 3rd grade (as her age supports) who is advanced in reading, and that might help take some pressure off of you and the schedule. (Esp. helpful when you hit 6th grade and everything REALLY takes off -- this way you're giving DD another year to mature so she's not the youngest and always scrambling to keep up, but is right at grade level for her age/ability/maturity overall (and advanced in reading), and has the confidence and breathing room to step out as a leader.) JMO!

 

BEST of luck as you think through how to make the changes that best help your schedule! And -- welcome to homeschooling! Wishing you and your family a wonderful journey together. That's lovely that your DH is home for lunch each day! Warmest regards, Lori D.

[Wonder]

One thing I note: your oldest is 9yo, which is typically 3rd grade age, and is doing grade 3 math, yet you are thinking she is behind? Sounds like she IS working at grade level, and for reading is ahead... That is often the case with children, working at different grade levels in different subjects until about grade 5 when it all seems to settle down and they are mostly working at the similar grade level for all their subjects.

 

Gently, I'd suggest viewing 9yo DD as 3rd grade (as her age supports) who is advanced in reading, and that might help take some pressure off of you and the schedule. 

 

 

Thank you so much for your encouraging advice!  I'm confused, though, as I thought 9 yrs. old was the typical age for "most" of 4th grade?  Most kids turn 10 during that year.  My DD has an end of the school year birthday (May), but I thought this was still the "normal" age, ya know?  I was 9 all through 4th grade as I have a summer birthday.

[TracyP]

We do shorter days on Fridays to have time for art and some other "extras". Latin is a core subject here, but not until 4th grade or older.

 

I would consider your dd to be a 4th grader. I go by my state's cut-off which is Sep. 1. (this is also the most common cut-off across the country) I don't believe there is any state in which your dd would be a 3rd grader. If she had an August b-day it might be iffier, but this seems pretty clear cut.

 

Re CLE: Is she doing well, understanding, etc.? If so, I would cut out the 2 quiz days and the review day (lessons 5, 10, and 17). Plan to do a minimum of 1 light unit over the summer and skip the -01 light unit as this is review of the previous year. You should have no problem doing 1.5 years in a year's time.

[Wonder]

 

Re CLE: Is she doing well, understanding, etc.? If so, I would cut out the 2 quiz days and the review day (lessons 5, 10, and 17). Plan to do a minimum of 1 light unit over the summer and skip the -01 light unit as this is review of the previous year. You should have no problem doing 1.5 years in a year's time.

 Yes, she's doing fine in CLE and understands it, but I admit I was feeling like she was "supposed" to be doing something else besides that.  We actually have Singapore CWP 3, but we haven't even touched it, because the CLE takes a while as it is.  I think it's more of a "mind" thing for her (as far as taking forever).  She "thinks" it's going to take forever...and so it does.  Does that make sense?  We have skipped some of the quizzes, but maybe we'll skip all of them.  Sometimes I cross out some of the "We Remember" stuff, but not usually.

 

Thanks!

[Wonder]

So, as far as latin, I was thinking that was something that should be done together with my girls, but now it's looking like that wouldn't work?  They would need to be at different levels, as they're 3 years apart.  I suppose I could still try to do Prima Latina this year with DD9 and, if the youngers picked some stuff up from it, that would just be "gravy"?

[RootAnn]

I liked the quizzes in CLE, but admit I sometimes combined two lessons if my dd knew the new material in one lesson by doing the new stuff in two lessons & only doing the review stuff for one of the lessons (usually the 2nd of the two lessons). (My dd#1 used CLE 400 math.) Definitely easy to "go faster" through the light units, IMO. I set a timer for math so my kids do whatever they get done in that time - as long as they stay on task. That means they might only cover one side of one page of work one day, but three or four sides another day. (While my dd#3 is 'ahead' in math, dd#2 is 'behind.' Don't let it bother you - just go at her pace. You'll end up just fine in the end as long as you don't panic. And come back & check with The Hive when you get to CLE 600 as we have great conversations on when to switch out of CLE & what to move to for Pre-Algebra!)

 

I did Prima with my older two when dd#1 was in 4th & dd#2 was in 2nd. (I bought it to use in 3rd/1st, but couldn't fit it in -- was that the year I added another baby? I don't remember...) DD#2 did it orally. I moved them both onto Latina Christiana the next year (5th/3rd), but made dd#2 write. At the end of the year, I had to 'decouple' them as dd#2 was holding dd#1 back. Dd#2 got a year off of Latin, but I restarted her with Prima this year - along with dd#3. She remembers almost everything and both are doing beautifully so far. So, I'd say you could definitely do Prima - three (or four times) per week for 20 - 30 minutes a shot. If you have the videos, they actually take the longest of any classtime. Anything the younger DDs pick up is gravy.  :hurray:

[boscopup]

Thank you so much for your encouraging advice!  I'm confused, though, as I thought 9 yrs. old was the typical age for "most" of 4th grade?  Most kids turn 10 during that year.  My DD has an end of the school year birthday (May), but I thought this was still the "normal" age, ya know?  I was 9 all through 4th grade as I have a summer birthday.

 

You are correct. 4th grade is typically 9 years old. 3rd grade is 9 years old if you redshirt the child, which is becoming more and more common in some areas.

 

On a good note... My friend pulled her DD out of ps in 3rd grade and had to start with CLE Math 200. When she was in 4th grade, still working in CLE 300, her SAT10 test scores were quite good in math, despite working a "grade behind" in CLE! And compared to her ps friends... they weren't learning the things she was learning in CLE. So basically, CLE is way ahead of my friend's ps. Now ps's are all different, and for some, CLE might be "at grade level", but for some, it's "ahead". Also, you're working in 308 at the beginning of 4th grade? That's not bad at all. You can skip 401 when you get there as well. My friend's DD got through 507, then tested in Saxon 8/7! She went with Saxon 7/6 to give her dd a transition year, and it's going very well. She's in 6th grade now. So I wouldn't worry at all about her being "behind" in math. ;)

 

As to the OP... we're using some of the same curricula. Here's my son's schedule:

 

MWF:

 

8:00 CLE Math (below his working level - it's "practice" and only takes 15-20 minutes tops)

........R&S Spelling (M only)

........Pentime handwriting (MWF)

........Lively Latin (WF only)

9:00 History together with brother - any projects, read-alouds, mapwork, other stuff that involves Mom

10:00 Free play or finish anything that wasn't finished earlier.

11:00 Lunch

12:00 R&S English

.........AoPS or Dolciani Prealgebra (limited to 30 minutes)

1:00 Writing & Rhetoric

.......Read TOG History or Lit and do any writing associated with it

2:00 Should be free to play!

 

That's about 4 hours of work, which I think is appropriate for a 4th grader.

 

T/Th:

 

8:00 CLE Math

.......R&S Spelling

.......Lively Latin

9:00 Science in the Beginning together with brothers - includes experiment and notebooking

10:00 Free play or finish anything that wasn't finished earlier.

11:00 Lunch

12:00 Read TOG History or Lit and do any writing associated with it

12:30 Math

1:00 Writing With Ease

1:30 Should be free to play!

 

That's about 3.5 hours of work.

 

Writing and Rhetoric typically takes us 3 days (at least in the first 5 lessons it has). We do the beginning portion up through the copywork on day 1. Then we do dictation and everything else up until the big writing thing on day 2. On day 3, we do the big writing thing. Note that I have a "man of few words", so amplifications are like pulling teeth. :D But I figure he spends about 30 minutes writing that big paragraph/story/whatever at the end of the lesson. The other stuff is done with me and takes about 30 minutes each day for us.

 

I'm playing around with how to assign R&S English right now. He has been doing it independently, which works great, but I'm wanting him to do some writing in history/lit now, and that plus half a written R&S English lesson plus a handwriting page plus anything else he has to do is getting to be too much. So I'm going to try assigning about 1/4 of the English lesson, and then if something needs more practice, pull out the worksheet for that topic. He generally gets grammar easily, but he does need to WRITE the grammar for it to stick. Doing it orally will be in one ear and out the other long term. I plan to remove Pentime completely next school year, but this year I think he still needs it. He's not yet writing everything in cursive. I just started having him do spelling in cursive a few weeks ago. I also have him do the copywork in W&R in cursive. He's not at all ready to do dictation or writing a paragraph (not copying) in cursive. He's still having to think about the letter formation and sometimes look back in the handwriting book to see how to write a particular letter. If he could type well enough, I'd let him do the W&R paragraph on the computer, but nope... that's more painful than writing. :tongue_smilie:

 

My schedule for my 1st grader fits in amongst my 4th grader's schedule. They do CLE Math at the same time - speed drill at the same time, lesson at the same time. The 4th grader is doing it as review, so he doesn't need any teaching at all from me. First grader is not an independent reader yet, so he needs me the entire time for math. When math is done, I have the 4th grader work on his spelling/handwriting/Latin (2 of those are assigned each day) while I do R&S Reading with the first grader. Then we all meet together to do history/science. After lunch, I have the 4th grader work on his English or History/Lit reading while I do R&S Phonics with the first grader. Then I do math and writing with the 4th grader (I'm needed for prealgebra and most definitely needed for writing!!!). The first grader has quiet reading time during math, then he can go play. So first grader is just doing math/reading/phonics, plus TOG history/lit and science. I've dropped grammar and writing for him for the moment. We're focusing on getting him reading, and the handwriting he does during phonics is expected to be neat.

 

The kids have an art class once a month with our homeschool group. Otherwise, we don't do a lot of art.

[Lori D.]

 

 

Thank you so much for your encouraging advice!  I'm confused, though, as I thought 9 yrs. old was the typical age for "most" of 4th grade?  Most kids turn 10 during that year.  My DD has an end of the school year birthday (May), but I thought this was still the "normal" age, ya know?  I was 9 all through 4th grade as I have a summer birthday.

 

 

I would consider your dd to be a 4th grader. I go by my state's cut-off which is Sep. 1. (this is also the most common cut-off across the country) I don't believe there is any state in which your dd would be a 3rd grader.

 

You are correct. 4th grade is typically 9 years old. 3rd grade is 9 years old if you redshirt the child, which is becoming more and more common in some areas.

 

 

Ah, I see. :)

 

I was going by our own experience with our DSs, which was to place them in the grade at their ability level, not by age, so our older DS (late April birthday, and a late bloomer) was 9 for most of 3rd and 10 for most of 4th, and younger DS (early Jan. b-day), was 9 for 1/2 of 3rd, but was doing some 2nd grade work (math, writing, spelling).

 

Also, that helps to know that CLE Math is often "ahead". While we tried many math programs over the years, CLE was not one of them, so that is good to hear the experience of actual users about scheduling and placement. :)

[Wabi Sabi]

You are correct. 4th grade is typically 9 years old. 3rd grade is 9 years old if you redshirt the child, which is becoming more and more common in some areas.

My 9 y/o with an early autumn birthday is a 3rd grader by all state age requirement, no redshirting. For him to be a 4th grader would have meant that he started kindergarten still as a 4 year old, and I've never heard of any school district in these parts allowing a child to start before his 5th birthday.

[Miss Tick]

For Latin we are using Getting Started With Latin. It is pretty quick, you could do it orally and 3 days a week is fine. Gentle intoduction that you might be able to fit in.

 

I have a block of time Monday afternoons where I notionally rotate between art, composer study, nature study. If we do each once a month I'm happy. If we don't get to it I'm not stressed.

[Mommy22alyns]

We do a full load M-Th and then anything we missed or any extras go on Friday - things like more involved art, hands on projects, CWP, HOE, more Latin, extra reading, typing, etc.

[boscopup]

My 9 y/o with an early autumn birthday is a 3rd grader by all state age requirement, no redshirting. For him to be a 4th grader would have meant that he started kindergarten still as a 4 year old, and I've never heard of any school district in these parts allowing a child to start before his 5th birthday.

 

But he started the year as an 8 year old, right? That's what I'm talking about. 4th graders typically start school at age 9. They may turn 10 early in the school year if they have a fall birthday, but they started at 9. My middle son has a November birthday, so he's about to be a 7 year old, but he was 6 when he started first grade this year.

 

[Wonder]

Your posts are always so helpful, Boscopup!  So do you just do Read Alouds outside of this time?  I guess one reason our RA time seems to be working well is that it gives us a bit of a break at a good time.  I like the "rhythm" it has created, but I'll probably play around with our routine/rhythm. :)  It also looks like your son maybe does his independent reading at a different time?  If so, maybe our schedules aren't really all that different?

 

Boscopup, how do you do R&S spelling just 3 days per week?  I have DD do one section per day for M-W.  Thursday she writes out her words 2 to 3 times.  Then Friday is the test.  I'm actually considering letting her take a break from spelling and, for a while, do books 7 & 8 from ETC.  I think there are things in there regarding word endings and syllables that 'might' help her with spelling/reading anyway.  

 

Wow - your son is already doing pre-algebra?

 

Maybe Writing & Rhetoric takes us so long because we, being a bunch of girls, talk too much? Ha ha!  The writing part for my daughter really takes quite a while, but maybe it's because she likes to think it all through quite a bit.  If it's an amplification, she usually works on her rough draft for about 2 days.  Then we go over it together, mark it up, talk about what can be "fixed" (spelling)/changed.  Then she works for a day or two to re-write the whole thing.  So maybe we'll just not get through the whole curriculum.

 

Thanks again for taking the time to help! :)  I'm going to really be re-thinking our routine/schedule and hopefully come up with something a bit different to try this next week!

 

 

 

As to the OP... we're using some of the same curricula. Here's my son's schedule:

 

MWF:

 

8:00 CLE Math (below his working level - it's "practice" and only takes 15-20 minutes tops)

........R&S Spelling (M only)

........Pentime handwriting (MWF)

........Lively Latin (WF only)

9:00 History together with brother - any projects, read-alouds, mapwork, other stuff that involves Mom

10:00 Free play or finish anything that wasn't finished earlier.

11:00 Lunch

12:00 R&S English

.........AoPS or Dolciani Prealgebra (limited to 30 minutes)

1:00 Writing & Rhetoric

.......Read TOG History or Lit and do any writing associated with it

2:00 Should be free to play!

 

That's about 4 hours of work, which I think is appropriate for a 4th grader.

 

T/Th:

 

8:00 CLE Math

.......R&S Spelling

.......Lively Latin

9:00 Science in the Beginning together with brothers - includes experiment and notebooking

10:00 Free play or finish anything that wasn't finished earlier.

11:00 Lunch

12:00 Read TOG History or Lit and do any writing associated with it

12:30 Math

1:00 Writing With Ease

1:30 Should be free to play!

 

That's about 3.5 hours of work.

 

Writing and Rhetoric typically takes us 3 days (at least in the first 5 lessons it has). We do the beginning portion up through the copywork on day 1. Then we do dictation and everything else up until the big writing thing on day 2. On day 3, we do the big writing thing. Note that I have a "man of few words", so amplifications are like pulling teeth. :D But I figure he spends about 30 minutes writing that big paragraph/story/whatever at the end of the lesson. The other stuff is done with me and takes about 30 minutes each day for us.

 

[2ndGenHomeschooler]

I wanted to do a lot of extras this year so I've had to get creative with the schedule. I still haven't figured it all out yet but we're definitely getting more in this year than last year. We school year round but our official start this year (new plan, switching some curriculum, etc.) just happened this month so I haven't worked out all the details yet. Here's the gist of my plan.

 

Math - I wanted to fit in SM for all three, plus flashcard drills, skip counting practice, LOF, math games, and speed drills. We do SM 4 days a week, and LOF on Friday. We do flashcards and skip counting on alternate days so they get done twice each week. Math games are on Friday. Still haven't fit in the speed drills.

 

Language Arts - Reading every day, LLATL 4 days a week for 9yo, read aloud every day - 4 days a week our literature selection and 1 day poetry, hand writing 3 or 4 days a week.

 

Science - 2 days a week

 

History - 3 days a week

 

Piano practice - 5 days a week

 

Composer Study and Artist Study - I'm alternating 1 month of each and doing it just 1 day a week.

 

Art - 1 or 2 days a week we do a "class". I have materials available to them all the time though and they do some sort of project almost every day.

 

Geography - 1 day a week

 

Hymn Study - 1 day a week during Bible time. I'll shorten other parts of our Bible time to make room for this

 

Spanish and Latin - I haven't actually fit the Latin in yet (I'm planning to just do English from the roots up for now which seems pretty simple) but my plan is to do Spanish 3 days a week and Latin 2.

 

So Friday ends up being "extra" day. LOF, math games, geography, art, composer or artist study, hymn study, nature walk, etc. More of the fun stuff.

 

We also school year round with shorter breaks so we use those breaks to fit in some of the fun extras that we don't have time for the rest of the year. This summer we had a big American history and health and safety focus which was a lot of fun. Schooling year round also allows us the flexibility to spread things out a little more without getting behind.

 

As far as our schedule goes, we usually get everything done in about 3-4 hours. Our schedule is a little different than most because my husband works the afternoon shift and I teach piano lessons a couple of afternoons a week. We do about 2 hours in the morning followed by a long break of 2 hours for lunch and "rest time" in the afternoon. After my husband goes to work we'll do another hour or two to finish up. I try to keep each lesson short. Any more than 30 minutes for most subjects and I start to loose their attention. Some subjects are done in just 10-15 minutes. Science and history can usually go more than 30 minutes if it's split up between reading, writing something, doing a hands on project, etc.

 

Start by just trying to add in one "extra" one day a week and go from there. :001_smile:

[Wonder]

As I've been thinking and scheming today, I've got to thinking that maybe it would be helpful for me to try to "assign" a time frame for the different subjects for DD9.  Let her know about how long it should take her and try to stick to that time?

 

How does this look?

 

15 min.     Pentime (M,W,F)

45 min.     Math (M-F)

20 min.     Spelling (M-F)

25 min.     Grammar (Mon. Wed. Th.)

10 min.     Poetry memoriz. (Tues.)

20- 30      Writing (M-F)

60 min.     Reading (M-F)  (30 min. of this before bed)

60 min.     History/Science (M-Th.)

60 min.     Art (Fri)

25 min.     Read Aloud (M-F)

15 min.     Typing (Tues, Fri)

 

Bible would be in the evening for about 15 - 20 min.  So the daytime hours for DD9 would average around 4 hours, including the Read Aloud...a little less on Friday since Art is not really a "Core subject."  30 minutes of independent reading would be outside of this time.  In January maybe we'll start a bit of Latin and re-work the schedule. 

 

Can anyone compare what the "times" look like for your kiddos at this age?  And, yes, I know what the WTM recommended times are. :)  I think they would recommend more independent reading, history, science, and latin. Thanks!

 

 

[NancyNellen]

When my olders were little we did art, music, nature study, etc. on Monday mornings. We were all fresh and excited, so it was certain to get done. I could never do "extras" on Friday - way too tired and fried!

 

For us Latin is a core subject beginning in 4th or 5th grade. It HAS to happen.

[Lori D.]

Can anyone compare what the "times" look like for your kiddos at this age?  And, yes, I know what the WTM recommended times are. :)  I think they would recommend more independent reading, history, science, and latin. Thanks!

 

 

Remember, SWB *only* included times and schedules in WTM because the publisher required it. SWB does not expect people to follow those to the minute. ;)

 

Your times look good to me! Pretty similar to what we did at that age. :) If the math time is too long and your student is losing focus, break it into two "bites" and separate the "bites" with other things, or have the bites be different in focus (i.e., 30 min. regular lesson, 15 minutes later on for math facts, word problems, fun supplement, etc.).

 

Good luck! Hope that helps ease up your schedule AND allows you to get the "extras" in there regularly. :) Warmly, Lori D.

[boscopup]

 

So do you just do Read Alouds outside of this time?

 

 

 

Sort of... I do a read-aloud at breakfast. When we were doing Sonlight, this was when I did the read-aloud for my 4th grader's core, as it was always a longer chapter book. We just switched to TOG last week, and the read-alouds are sometimes a little different. Like this one is a book with a lot of photographs. It has several chapters, but it's a nonfiction book, and it's more conducive to sitting on the couch. We're still finishing up Caddie Woodlawn from Sonlight anyway, so we're still reading something at breakfast. :D (I eat before they come downstairs, so I can read at the table.) This week, I used our history time in the middle of the morning to read that read-aloud for TOG history. I also read the LG history/lit to my first grader. 4th grader listened in to some of them. ;) So the hour we spend on history includes the read-aloud for the week, first grader's history/lit, geography work, and any projects we decide to do. Last week we did a salt dough map. This week we need to paint it. So that will get done during one of those history days, possibly taking up some before-lunch play time. ;)

 

We also do a read-aloud at bed time, which is usually not related to our studies. For example, we went through the entire Chronicles of Narnia series not too long ago. Now we're working through the How to Train Your Dragon series. I try to do books that all 3 kids will enjoy... or at least the two older ones (4 year old doesn't really care as much about novels yet). Occasionally, they'll talk me into reading at lunch time, though I do eat with them, so I finish my food first, and then while they all grab an apple or something, I read for a little bit.

 

 

It also looks like your son maybe does his independent reading at a different time?  If so, maybe our schedules aren't really all that different?

 

The TOG History/Lit spot is assigned independent reading. So that's about 30 minutes each day. He also reads on his own all the time anyway. He's a voracious reader. I don't really need to have him read independently for a certain amount of time anymore. He just reads. So now he has assigned reading of specific things, and when he's done with that, he can read whatever he wants, whenever he wants (outside of school time).

 

 

 

Boscopup, how do you do R&S spelling just 3 days per week?  I have DD do one section per day for M-W.  Thursday she writes out her words 2 to 3 times.  Then Friday is the test.  I'm actually considering letting her take a break from spelling and, for a while, do books 7 & 8 from ETC.  I think there are things in there regarding word endings and syllables that 'might' help her with spelling/reading anyway. 

 

 

I didn't really include the test in my schedule because 1) we sometimes never get around to it and I just skip it, and 2) if we do do it, it takes like 5 minutes, so it's not really a big deal. I purposely put spelling Monday/Tuesday/Thursday so he has time to do all three sections.

 

 

 

Maybe Writing & Rhetoric takes us so long because we, being a bunch of girls, talk too much? Ha ha!  The writing part for my daughter really takes quite a while, but maybe it's because she likes to think it all through quite a bit.  If it's an amplification, she usually works on her rough draft for about 2 days.  Then we go over it together, mark it up, talk about what can be "fixed" (spelling)/changed.  Then she works for a day or two to re-write the whole thing.  So maybe we'll just not get through the whole curriculum.

 

 

Oh, y'all are doing the whole writing process! We just write and are done. I haven't had him doing rough drafts vs. final copies or anything like that. It's not perfect, and that's ok. I save the whole writing process for specific assignments in history or science or whatever. I have some writing assignments lined up for TOG history before our Christmas break. A couple use a graphic organizer one week and write the composition the next week. One has him reading from different sources and writing a composition about a topic, and that will definitely have rough drafts and all that. I think it's spread out over 3 weeks.

 

DS does NOT enjoy writing at all, but he really enjoys Writing & Rhetoric, so I'm trying not to kill that enjoyment by making him rewrite stuff, as he really hates rewriting stuff. If he could type (we're working on that), it would be easier to do rough draft/edit/final copy. But having to hand write every single thing... nope. He is just starting to really have some fun with the writing sometimes, so I'm keeping it simple. I don't remember doing the whole writing process thing until middle school, and I never had any trouble using it.

 

As I've been thinking and scheming today, I've got to thinking that maybe it would be helpful for me to try to "assign" a time frame for the different subjects for DD9.  Let her know about how long it should take her and try to stick to that time?

 

How does this look?

 

15 min.     Pentime (M,W,F)

45 min.     Math (M-F)

20 min.     Spelling (M-F)

25 min.     Grammar (Mon. Wed. Th.)

10 min.     Poetry memoriz. (Tues.)

20- 30      Writing (M-F)

60 min.     Reading (M-F)  (30 min. of this before bed)

60 min.     History/Science (M-Th.)

60 min.     Art (Fri)

25 min.     Read Aloud (M-F)

15 min.     Typing (Tues, Fri)

 

Your schedule looks good, and the times look pretty close to what we do for each subject. :)

 

Also, if there is a subject where dawdling happens, sometimes breaking it up will help. For example, if she's thinking the CLE lesson is long, do the speed drill and new teaching section in the morning, then the we remember section in the afternoon (right after lunch is a good time for math here... the only reason my son isn't doing it then is because I have to get the 1st grader phonics before he gets away! :D).

[LindaOz]

I haven't read all the replies so I apologise if I am doubling up...

 

I get art in if we do it first thing - right after breakfast cleanup and chores - before everyone disperses. I love it. We do some art together and then go on to math, LA etc. A couple of weeks ago we did art every morning for a week and it was so much fun and we really achieved something I thought. And you know what? The book work still gets done :-)

[Haiku]

I put the things that we were having trouble getting done first on our morning schedule. For us that was science and history. I used to schedule them last, but then by the time we got around to them, and were facing another hour of work, our motivation fell apart, or we had an appointment to go to, or we had no groceries, etc. So we do science/history (in two week rotations) first.

 

So I'd suggest taking the things you can't get to and putting them first. Rotate them throughout the week if necessary so that you aren't adding to your total time ... although I will say that, with Latin, you need at least four days a week to make real progress.

[Wonder]

Thanks so much, everyone!  We'll try out some new things/routines this next week! :)

[2_girls_mommy]

I consider art part of the curriculum, especially for a 6 yr old.  It is essential to me.  Less so maybe for the 9 yr old, but still important.  But maybe not essential every week.

Latin is essential.  I like PL before the more intense latins later, and I find even a 6 yr old can follow along and pick up a lot of the vocab and prayers and songs and will feel more confident when it is his/her turn for real latin and the workbook later.  I speak from experience.  I had my ydd follow along during latin time coloring in a coloring book instead of the workbook.  But then when she started PL in 3rd she felt confident with it.  She had several younger children in her class w/us at co-op the next year and they did fine.  I just don't have them do the workbooks at that age, or expect them to get the grammar.  But they like learning the words.  The good news is PL doesn't take much time at all.  30 min.-hr a week of lesson time.  Practice of the prayers during your day at meals or bedtime, and maybe 1 session during the week of reviewing the vocab and doing the workbook.   I would rotate it into the schedule twice a week somewhere.

 

For art, I rotated the afternoon schedule when my kids were little.  Art was on Mondays.  Tues/Thurs were History, Wed. was Science, and Friday was whichever we still needed to work on.  I used things like What Your First Grader Needs to Know as a basis for art study a couple of years, and then we did Drawing with Children for a couple of years in that art period.  But I needed a formal set time in the schedule so that I knew it was going to get done.  Having the books and material on the shelf that all I had to do was pull it down, plus the time slot set aside that the kids were counting on helped me.  Even if all we did was finish a SOTW art project in that time period or finish a drawing from last week, we always did something.

 

For art history, I include it in our read aloud time.  I read a bit from a novel, from our history, and from our science each day during our read aloud time.  Then I add in preschool books when the dn is here, and we do all of our memorywork at that time.  When the kids were little like yours I did do most of the read alouds at bedtime, but now I am too tired at the end of the day.  So they do their silent reading at bedtime instead of during the day and I read during the day instead :)

[sagira]

I have a ds10 and a dd6. We have Fridays for music, geography, and poet study, and in the weekend I teach piano and dh teaches art (he's an artist with copious art books around the house).

[MissKNG]

I basically just don't.  I buy art supplies and books and the kids are free to "make art".  I have one who is very into it.  The other..not really.  I sometimes get some library books about famous artists as a read aloud. 

 

I don't do Latin either. 

 

This is what I do as well for art. I have a drawer full of odds and ends that they use to make projects on their own as art. Also when they are working on something, I play different music genres and call that "music". I talk briefly about the instruments heard, for example, just to make it a little more "official".

[angelmama1209]

we have "specials" each day. monday- logic and conflict resolution, tuesday- map study, wednesday- art and cwp, thursday- cooking and following directions, friday- typing and music. latin is done daily (as is greek simply because it was her choice and she loves it). if we skip one of these or don't have time for it, i don't worry about it, though.

[PeacefulChaos]

We've scheduled each year differently. 

Our first year, we did everything the way it was recommended in TWTM.  Science 2x/wk, History 3x/wk, etc.

The second year, I changed it to one thing per day - Geography, Art, History, Science, Music - those each got a day.

THIS year I've moved Art, History, and Science to Fridays.  That's all we do that day, unless they have something to catch up on from the week.  I LOVE IT.  So that's what I'd recommend.  :D

 

Monday-Thursday, Link does Latin, Math, Spelling, Handwriting, Grammar, Geography, and Typing; Astro does Math, Explode the Code or Beyond the Code, Grammar (usually 3 days), Spelling, Handwriting, and Geography.