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[mathmarm]

deleted. thanks to all for their replies.

[PrincessMommy]

First :grouphug:.  I'm sure you're very concerned. 

 

But, since you say that you have mentioned stuff from his FB before, why not say to him, "Hey I saw you had friended ... ex-wife... and it made me a little concerned."   can you talk to him about your feelings?  Maybe say you feel a little threatened?

[warneral]

I think you should be honest with him that you read it, feel threatened and want to move past it together. Hugs

[texasmama]

(((hugs)))  I would not speak to any family members about this situation - either your family or his family. 

 

In your situation, I would seek out professional counsel - either through a trusted religious leader (if you are a church goer) or a therapist.  I think a situation of this complexity is best handled by a professional.  (((hugs)))

[Starr]

:grouphug: It sounds very painful. Talk directly with your dh it may not be as bad as you think,

[idnib]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:

 

What a difficult and complex situation. I would talk to DH openly, not in any accusatory way. Put your insecurities aside and see if you can approach it from a place of giving DH a chance to heal. It sounds like he's been through so much.

 

If this is too difficult or you need support, I agree with texasmama about getting outside help. A marriage like this is worth investing in.

[sunnyday]

I heard this show on NPR many years ago. It's given me good guidelines for judging opposite-sex relationships in my marriage: my own and my husband's. Based on these guidelines I feel like I know how much sharing is acceptable with my male friends, and how jealous I should feel about my husband's relationship with his work colleagues, based on the amount of emotional intimacy I feel I am sharing with someone or I perceive he is sharing with someone. I've heard a lot of people online puzzling over whether to trust their spouse or where to draw the line, and I've passed this link along to good effect more than once. I wonder if it might give you perspective, or start a conversation with your husband?

 

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7422518

[Cinder]

:grouphug:

[dbmamaz]

I tend to be a very trusting optimist.  That said, what I see is two people finally trying to make peace with a horrible part of their distant past.  I hear nothing that even gives a hint that your husband would ever consider doing anything to jeopardize what he has with you.  Yes, you probably should talk to him about this and about your feelings - after you calm down.  But trust that your marriage is under no threat.  

 

My husband kept a flame for his last gf for a long time and it made me very insecure.  But there was nothing there, it was not a real threat, it was just my insecurities.  Its reasonable to expect openness about this and reasonable to set boundaries.  But remember that this man loves you and  your child and is married to you and there is no indication that that will ever change.  

[Sun]

:grouphug:  You sound like you feel very alone with this, and that's a scary place to be.

 

I read your post, and I think you may be overly sensitive about this. To me, it doesn't sound that scary or threatening to your marriage. However, the worry and fear around it is very threatening to both your marriage and your emotional health.

 

The loss of your husband's first child and the resulting destruction of his first marriage will always be very important events in his life. It sounds to me as if he's been unable to talk about it much (you said you only know the most basic of details about it), and it sounds as if she also may have been holding a lot of unresolved emotions around that time. It may be that they both need a chance to process those emotions, and, hard as it is for you, they're really the only ones who can really understand that grief. That doesn't mean that your marriage is threatened.

 

What can threaten your marriage is lack of communication. I know it's hard, but I think you do need to let your DH know that you're worrying about this. But as you do so, remember that he has a lot of raw emotions around this as well--and his are founded in a very painful loss.

 

You say yourself that you don't think this is leading to a physical affair, and his ex-wife doesn't live close to you. He may need this time to process his loss. Please try to tell yourself that doing so via occasional communication with his ex-wife does not mean that he's cheating on you--emotionally or otherwise.

 

Do you have someone outside your circle of family and friends with whom you can talk? A counselor or pastor? I think it would be very helpful for you to have someone to process this with. I think it may help you to figure out why this is so threatening to you. Working through some of that with a counselor and later discussing some of those issues with your DH might end up bringing you closer together.

 

Again, hugs to you.

[jmama]

It sounds like they need to resolve some issues from their past.  Having someone to talk about their son with that was there.  From the responses you shared  it certainly doesn't sound like your dh has anything else in mind.  ((hugs)) to you, I know this is hard, but, I agree with the others that talking to your dh about this will only help ease your mind.

[Mommy22alyns]

:grouphug:  :grouphug:   I'm sorry, I don't have any advice, but you sound very alone with this and I know that's a hard place to be.

[Orthodox6]

(((hugs)))  I would not speak to any family members about this situation - either your family or his family. 

 

In your situation, I would seek out professional counsel - either through a trusted religious leader (if you are a church goer) or a therapist.  I think a situation of this complexity is best handled by a professional.  (((hugs)))

 

This is the best advice I have seen in the thread.

 

:grouphug:

 

 

ETA to clarify my thoughts:  Therapy for OP initially, to be supplemented when the time is right by "couples therapy" with her husband.  Each of these spouses has to work through some heavy burdens.  The ex-wife does not qualify as a "therapist".   

[sbgrace]

Well, past loves are higher risks for affairs (statistically). I do think married people sharing emotional connections with opposite sex people we are (and especially were) attracted to is foolish. You mentioned emotional affair. I'm not sure if you read messages along that line? More than what you wrote here? Flirting?

 

Not Just Friends is a great book. I think the author would say this is a dangerous relationship, even if it's innocent right now. I'll Pm you.

 

 

 

[Liz CA]

This is truly a painful situation and has so many undercurrents. What would concern me more than this recent befriending of ex wife is the fact that he does not want to or can openly talk about his pain and grief from the loss of a child and the loss of a marriage.

I would perhaps say something like: I am feeling very disconnected because of some things in your past. This is causing me difficulties. Would you come along to counseling with me so I can work on this?"

By putting the "problem" on yourself, he may be more willing to consider it.

 

I think, once he talks more openly about the pain and grief, you will feel much better about your relationship and this trip down memory lane with ex wife will be just that, a shared, painful memory.

[mathmarm]

deleted.

[justamouse]

If I had lost one of my children with my husband, even though I then went on to divorce him, we would have shared four momentous life changes together, marriage, a birth, a death, and a divorce. That death...that would bind us in ways that were just there. I agree that is is something that you might want to see a therapist for. This one is sticky. 

[Mrs Mungo]

I think once you have kids with someone, then you will always have some sort of connection with that person.

 

This:

Hubbys reply was terse and short: "We were young and without proper support, it was in the past"--that type of thing. He did say that he gave up his grudge and anger about it didn't like to relive it. She wrote a reply after that but its unread so I didn't open it.

Leads me to believe that your dh is doing the right thing. He doesn't sound like someone who is being led down the primrose path. I don't think resolving his past is a threat to you or your relationship in any way.

 

I agree with texasmama about keeping the relatives out of it and seeking counseling, if you still feel conflicted.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

(((hugs)))  I would not speak to any family members about this situation - either your family or his family. 

 

In your situation, I would seek out professional counsel - either through a trusted religious leader (if you are a church goer) or a therapist.  I think a situation of this complexity is best handled by a professional.  (((hugs)))

 

 

I tend to be a very trusting optimist.  That said, what I see is two people finally trying to make peace with a horrible part of their distant past.  I hear nothing that even gives a hint that your husband would ever consider doing anything to jeopardize what he has with you.  Yes, you probably should talk to him about this and about your feelings - after you calm down.  But trust that your marriage is under no threat.  

 

My husband kept a flame for his last gf for a long time and it made me very insecure.  But there was nothing there, it was not a real threat, it was just my insecurities.  Its reasonable to expect openness about this and reasonable to set boundaries.  But remember that this man loves you and  your child and is married to you and there is no indication that that will ever change.  

 

I agree wholeheartedly with both of these posts. However, rational or not, I would also feel rocked by what you've described. I agree that you need to talk with him about this, and I would do everything in my power to get him to come to some counseling with me. IMO, a marriage where one person's trust is shaken--and where one party has experienced so much betrayal and grief--is one that needs a little (or a lot of) help. 

 

:grouphug:  :grouphug:  :grouphug:  I'm sorry you're in this position, and I'm sorry that your DH has suffered so much pain and loss. What a heartbreaking story :(

[justamouse]

I guess I am more worried that Hubbys first love is interested in him! I know that may sound silly, but she showed up at the one place that she knew Hubby would be and be vulnerable to her. She reached out to him, she asked him to be his facebook friend, she sent him the first message, asks him random questions and just seems to be trying to reconnect with him and I know that hubby is sensitive to her and their history.

 

This is also the one part of Hubbys life that he can't seem to share with me. Or anyone really.

We aren't religious and he is very close to his family, he comes from a close knit family and they don't exactly do touchy-feely things with 'outsiders.'

I highly doubt that Hubby would talk to a counselor with or without me.

 

Hubby had told me before that sometimes he "sometimes he can't look at Jr. without feeling emotional and that it was so unbelievable...." but I didn't know what he meant by that. I assumed that he meant because of our fertility troubles it was unbelievable to him that Jr. was finally here. But apparently he meant that  Jr. resembles his much older brother and its painful to see the shadow of his first son after all these years.

 

It breaks my heart to realize that Jr. could be a source of pain or unhappiness for him. We wanted this baby for years and I thought that we both found Jr. to be a source of love and happiness for us. Now I question Hubbys motivation for a deliberate baby time each day--he said it helps him to spend quality time with Jr. each day no matter what and I didn't know why he was doing it but now I suspect its because he'd ignore Jr. if he didn't.

 

These two people were married and lost a child together. I just cannot imagine the depth of remorse and sadness there. Mourning a child is something that (though I've never experienced) I can imagine it never stops. 

 

I am sure he adores your son, so don't ascribe to him motivations that you are just assuming--that's very dangerous. You're judging him and he's not even had the chance to defend himself--do you see? You can't do that. 

 

I can imagine that he adores your son, and that your son is also a reminder of the son he lost. It's bittersweet. Think of the litany of questions in your Dh's head--would he have been a good big brother? Would he have been similar, different, what milestones would lost son have been going through? Would they have been similar, how old would he be, what would he have accomplished, who would he have become... And that would bring him back to all that was lost. 

 

Please, don't accuse your Dh about this, let him mourn and let him come to a point where he CAN talk to you about this. If you come at him with a mind full of accusations, he won't feel secure enough to do that. 

 

I've been married 19 years, and I have 7 kids, I don't think I would act differently if I were your Dh. If anything, I would say something like, "this must be so hard for you," and just leave it at that. Sympathize, don't get defensive. 

[LucyStoner]

1. You just gave birth. In that emotional state this may easily seem like more than it is. Your emotions are in overdrive and it is easy to over analyze in that situation.

 

2. Your husband had a son who would now be an adult old enough to be married with his own kids had he had lived. Naturally the birth of a second son is going to bring up a lot of emotions for him, especially with the resemblance. To lose a child is an unfathomable pain and loss for those of us lucky enough to have all of our children living. Having experienced that loss together, he will always have a bond with his ex wife just as he would if their son was now married with kids of his own they would always have in common. She is the only person on earth who misses that boy as he does. I wouldn't begrudge him mourning and reminiscing over his child with her or sending her pictures she has lost. It doesn't sound to me like he is still in love with her. It sounds like they have a unique common experience that will always link them and it wasn't until the passage of all this time that they could discuss it and lay some of it to rest.

[mathmarm]

deleted.

[HSmomof2]

I can understand why you are feeling threatened in this situation, but I also agree with other posters that from what you wrote in your original post, that it doesn't sound to me like your dh is being lured away or drawn back to this woman. It sounds to me like two people with a very close past relationship that need to work some things out. I also wouldn't talk to anyone other than your dh or a professional counselor/pastor about the situation. If it were me, I wouldn't even talk to dh about it yet, but would watch the situation closely.

 

I've sort of been in a slightly similar situation as your dh, minus the devastating loss of a child. My story is that about 2 years ago my ex-fiancé 'friended' me on FB. We were together six years, and our breakup was very ugly. I hadn't spoken to or seen him in over 20 years. I accepted his friend request and we exchanged messages for about a month. Nothing flirtatious, but some nostalgic about the past. We also both apologized for things we did that contributed to our breakup so many years ago. And that was it. He's still on my FB friend list, but we haven't had any contact for almost 2 years. There were things we needed to say to each other. I do feel better about the whole situation now and no longer wonder 'what could have been.' The relationship is now resolved for me. I didn't tell my dh about the messages, not to be deceitful, but because he would have been hurt and threatened over an issue that was never a threat. If ex had continued to message me or become flirtatious, I would have told dh and unfriended him.

 

I hope everything works out. :grouphug:

[justamouse]

deleted

 

A wife that just had a baby.  :001_smile:

 

I would also think he's so careful of his time with the baby is because he knows how precious that time is. It's probably very sacred to him. 

[PeterPan]

Somehow I missed that you just had this baby!  That's a very emotional time for you and an extremely emotional topic to boot!  Just so you know, it is possible to *un-friend* someone on FB.  In this instance, I suggest you talk through it openly with him in a rational, not emotional way, and suggest that as soon as the communication is over that was necessary, she be un-friended.  I wouldn't consider it appropriate to have your ex-wife as your friend on FB, just me, but that doesn't mean she was necessarily being a cougar to do it, kwim?  You haven't lost a child.  My inlaws have, and I can tell you that pain stays a LONG TIME.  To me what they're doing actually seems like more of an emotional need to heal and close some doors, kwim?  My mother and father (who are divorced) just did something similar.  People sometimes need to go back years later and apologize and heal.  It's freeing.  It's ok that they want to do that, but it's ok to shut the door then and move on.  So I would finish the communication, get it out in the open and discussed, and then un-friend her.    

[LMV]

I am also my DH's second wife.   His first wife died when their son was four years old.  I never knew her as we met over a year after her death.  I know my husband loved her.  From all accounts [both his, his family, his friends, even her family because we've stayed close with them because we all love their only grandchild] she was a wonderful woman who loved him and their little boy very much.  I truly believe that if things were different they would still be together and happy.  Things are not different but I  know that DH loves me.  Before I married him I reconciled all of that.  Perhaps this was easier because he was open in many ways about his wife and his grief.  We still have one picture of my husband, his first wife, and my stepson displayed in our home and I suspect it will always be here because it is important to my husband and I actually find that inspiring not threatening.  When my stepson was still living at home we had more pictures of her---most of them were concentrated in my stepson's room and have moved with him to his new home.  I also got in the habit of placing pictures of their first family in our guest house along with more recent photos of their grandson when my husband's first inlaws came to visit their grandson.  

 

I can also relate to the pain of losing a child.  We struggled a lot after our daughter died.  We grieved in very different ways and it was honestly so hard to be together at times.  In many ways we needed some space and separation then because we could parent together from a distance better than up close in the moment.  The love was still there as was much concern and I think both of us so much wanted to take the other's pain away but we couldn't.  We have come back together and have worked through our grief.  Honestly, I think if your husband and his wife are at a point where they are ready to do this it is probably in their best interest to let them.  I agree with those who have suggested that life is never the same when you lose a child because it isn't.  It also isn't something you can "get over".  However, the reality is that life does continue and there are blessings to come in that life.  The challenge is to embrace and appreciate those new blessing and gifts while still cherishing the memories that you have.  We have been blessed with more children and they are precious gifts to us and our family.  We love and cherish them but they will never change the reality that we had another daughter we wish could still be with us.  At times as our other children have accomplished or struggled our thoughts have shifted to our daughter.  It wouldn't surprise me if you husband had many conflicted emotions surrounding your new son.  It also wouldn't surprise me if he had many fears.  We've certainly been there.

 

I'm not sure if any of my rambling post is helpful. Reading your post touched many emotions for me and I hope that perhaps some piece of this may help further your understanding and thus help your conversation with your husband.  I do think that communication is very important and key to a successful marriage.  I wouldn't have said this was an issue we struggled with before our daughter's death but it certainly was after.  Now I would say we truly excel in this area and I have a lot more security in our ability to work through difficulties and challenges.  My heartfelt empathy and a prayer of healing and peace to your husband.  Best wishes to both of you.

[Eagle]

:grouphug:

 

You sound so sad I wish I could give you a real hug. Is it possible you are experiencing post-partum depression or anxiety? Hormones go all wacky after birth and our minds can go on hyper-alert for anything threatening to baby. From what you have written I don't see your dh being led astray. I think you need to talk to him and let him know you are very emotionally fragile right now. Blame your hormones. Let him know what is upsetting you. After you talk to dh if you aren't doing better in a day or two I think you should talk to your doctor in case this is something related to your recent birth.

[mathmarm]

deleted.

[LibraryLover]

deleted

[Mergath]

I think you should talk to your dh about this.  No matter how much you go around and around in your mind, you can't think yourself into knowing what's going on, if that makes sense, which is what it sounds like you're trying to do.  Only he can tell you that there's nothing going on.  

 

Though you have to accept that, while it certainly doesn't sound like they have a romantic relationship, they are always going to have an emotional relationship.  They had a child together, and they lost a child together.  There's always going to be that connection between them.  You just have to trust your dh enough to know that it ends there, and if you can't trust him, the two of you should attend counseling to figure out why.  Given his complicated history, having a professional help you guys work through this stuff probably wouldn't be a bad idea.  

 

Also, if you find yourself getting more and more upset about this to an irrational point, definitely see your doctor and get evaluated for PPD.  A lot of women start having issues with that at this stage postpartum.  If you do have ppd, you aren't going to be able to rationally deal with something like this without meds and treatment.

 

 

[Catwoman]

OK, I'll be the lone dissenter on this one and say that I wouldn't trust the first wife as far as I could throw her.

 

Here's why: She is already in her FOURTH MARRIAGE. Maybe she's looking for #5, or just wants to have an affair. Hey, maybe she doesn't, but I wouldn't take any chances with her.

 

I think you should be honest with your dh and let him know how you feel about him re-establishing communication with his ex. I would very strongly advise that you make sure he ends the relationship with her ASAP, and that he unfriends her on FB. He has spent time with her and had additional contact with her. That's enough closure.

 

I could be totally wrong here, but I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy feeling toward the ex-wife. It sounds like she intentionally "accidentally" bumped into your dh at the cemetery, and in all honesty, I think your dh was wrong to spend the rest of the day with her. A brief chat is one thing. Spending the day together is another. And the subsequent contact is establishing a new relationship between them, not providing closure.

 

Whatever the case, I really think the relationship should end. Now. Permanently.

[LucyStoner]

Cat, it sounds like she had a string of starter marriages in her 20s.  She's been with number 4 for 20+ years and has 4 (5)? kids with him.  That doesn't scream out like someone on the prowl to me.  She has as much as right as him to visit her son's gravesite on an important anniversary.  

 

ETA:  I can only imagine how lost a young divorcee who was mourning a 3 year old child could be.  I'd assume she rushed into and out of 2 fairly quick marriages (given that was all in just 10 years), perhaps because in the wake of that loss she was searching and maybe over eager to settle down.  

[Audrey]

Cat, it sounds like she had a string of starter marriages in her 20s.  She's been with number 4 for 20+ years and has 4 (5)? kids with him.  That doesn't scream out like someone on the prowl to me.  She has as much as right as him to visit her son's gravesite on an important anniversary.  

 

 

Yes. This.

 

If I'd lost my child, I'd probably bounce around a few failed relationships in the wake of my grief, too.  I suspect a lot of people would.  She's been with her current husband long enough to cut her some slack on this one.

 

When you share such a deep tragedy as losing a child with someone, that is a connection you cannot just "get over."  The child may have gone away, but that pain... that pain stays until your very last breath.  They both deserve more than just a little grace in this situation.