What is "Processed Food"?

[bolt.]

I keep trying to think through "eating less processed foods" -- but, as a black-and-white thinker, I get all confused about what exactly makes something "processed" or not.

 

Like, say, milk. It's obviously 1. Milked, 2. Stored, 3. Transported, and almost universally 4. Pasteurized, and usually 5. Partially skimmed, oh and 6. Packaged and sterilized. Those are all "processes" so is milk "a processed food" or not?

 

Where do people draw these lines went they say, "I don't eat processed foods"? Or does it vary? Or are there specific "processes" only that are being avoided? I have read an arbitrary 'number of ingredients' rule, but that seems not to make sense if the idea is to avoid "processing" -- And does it matter if I "process" it (by making a dish from a recipe)? And how is that different from the kinds of processes that are worth avoiding... And why are processes worth avoiding anyhow?

 

See the loop I get stuck in? Anybod got this figured out?

[bolt.]

Another example: rice, rice krispees, and rice Krispy squares -- at what point are those sufficiently processed to be called "processed"? What if I do it myself? And how would that make it different (if it does)?

[Jean in Newcastle]

People gave me good answers to this very question here:  http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/410814-what-exactly-is-processed-food/?hl=%2Bprocessed&do=findComment&comment=4145605

[Wilma]

I tend to think of whether my great-grandmother would've eaten the specific food.  Or at least someone's great-grandmother.  So milk, yes.  Cheese, yes.  Velveeta cheese, no.  Tortillas, yes.  Cheetos, no.  

[Laura Corin]

I tend to think of whether my great-grandmother would've eaten the specific food.  Or at least someone's great-grandmother.  So milk, yes.  Cheese, yes.  Velveeta cheese, no.  Tortillas, yes.  Cheetos, no.  

 

Yes.  If my grandmother (born late nineteenth century) would have recognised it, then it's okay.  She would have cooked almost everything from scratch, the only processes being simple smoking, fermentation, boiling (pasteurisation is a modern development of that, in my mind), baking.....

 

L

[Nestof3]

I agree it's a gray topic. I tend to stock items that make other items -- sort of like elements making molecules. But, I have to be honest and say I still buy my boys ice cream and their favorite chips. I haven't started making my own ketchup and mayo -- yet. And, I still buy bread for those who eat it. I buy broth instead of always making it.

 

But, I don't buy Rice a Roni, though I have bought better brands of per-seasoned rice mixtures. I don't buy per-made lasagna a, but I have been known to buy frozen pizzas.

 

So, I could never get away with saying "no processed foods," but I do still make most my meals from scratch. A standard grocery cart for me is, excluding non-edibles, is roughly:

 

1/3 fresh produce

1/6 meat/fish/eggs

1/6 dairy/almond milk, etc.

1/3 dry goods (wine, condiments, baking stuff, spag sauce, canned tomatoes)

 

Only a few items are pre--made like pretzels or bread).

[Joanne]

Since you are so awesome at helping people, step by step, through parenting/discipline ideas, can I offer to help you with this one?

 

Look at your family's eating habits and style. Make a top 3 list of things you want to eliminate or reduce. Make a top 3 list of things you want to add. Start with *those* changes, and drop the worry about whether it is processed or not.

 

My list would look something like this:

 

Elminate/Reduce

 

1. Fast food

2. Use of pasta

3. Avoid HFCS

 

Add

 

1. Veggies every meal

2. Iced, brewed, herbal tea

3. More fruit salads

 

[In The Great White North]

Most everything around the outside of the grocery store; hardly anything in the middle.

[Nestof3]

I avoid MSG and wheat. I have a cookbook that has seasoning concoctions to make your own rice a Roni. Maybe I should use it. I haven't really been making rice or pasta, so it hasn't been an issue lately.

 

I'll buy GF crackers sometimes. They are processed. I just try to avoid certain additives. High-fructose corn syrup is another.

 

Ok, but take Rice a Roni, for example. I suppose the seasoning they put in there are who knows what. But otherwise, it's rice. Right? What makes it so much worse than doing it yourself? Is it really just the seasonings? I'm not so sure.

 

There is the whole eat brown rice instead of white rice because of the fiber. But if you look at the fiber content, it's not a huge difference between white and brown.

[plath]

Most everything around the outside of the grocery store; hardly anything in the middle.

 

I would say this.  Boxed rice a roni, for example, has filler seasonings and preservatives and lots of sodium.  I would prefer to eat brown rice with my own seasonings (with no dextrins or fillings). 

[Χά�ων]

No more than 3-4 ingredients when purchased is my rule of thumb.

 

For each ingredient:

Must answer Yes to one of the following:

Was it a plant?

Did it eat plants?

 

 

Must answer No to the following:

Was it made in a plant?

 

 

I cook almost exclusively from scratch. The only things I do not make myself are:

Cheese

Maple syrup

Butter

 

 

 

Edited.

[Carrie12345]

My M.O. is to do my best to stick to things I recognize. The ingredients on flavor packets are usually foreign to me. But, yeah, I do expect my bottle of salt to have undergone some physical processing.

 

WHite flour has been way overprocessed.

Whole wheat flour has been a little less processed.

Wheat berries even less so.

Not sure how you're going to eat them straight from the field.

 

I do consider the layperson's "unprocessed" to mean "ingredients you can find in nature." PRetty much eliminates anything with a number after it.

[Nestof3]

I try not to be a food Nazi because I live with a husband and two sons. My husband likes taking them out for hot dogs and fries and soda on Sundays. If he takes them out of town on the weekend, they'll hit Wendy's or Taco Bell. We order pizza sometimes (I don't eat it).

 

My brother's kids have never had fast food (oldest is 5). They've never had soda. While I love that, it would never fly here -- down the street from my mom, living with my husband.

 

But, overall, he appreciates that when he eats my cooking, he eats well. We always have lots of fruit and vegetables. Beverages are typically water or milk (my one son). The boys and I brew cups of tea, and I confess, coffee.

 

We could certainly do better -- like never buying pre-made cookies. But, I think we do pretty well. I am stricter on myself, though.

[Jean in Newcastle]

 

 

Must answer No to the following:

Did it come from a plant?

 

 

Wait.  I don't understand this.  Does this mean that I can't eat an apple because it comes from a plant?  That can't be right. . . .

[plath]

Ooh lots of fillers...

 

 

RICE, WHEAT FLOUR, DURUM WHEAT SEMOLINA, SALT, SUGAR, AUTOLYZED YEAST EXTRACT*, HYDROLYZED SOY PROTEIN, ONIONS*, MONOSODIUM GLUTAMATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, PARSLEY*, GARLIC*, CHICKEN BROTH*, CHICKEN FAT, TURMERIC SPICE WHICH IMPARTS COLOR, HYDROLYZED CORN GLUTEN, NIACIN*, DISODIUM GUANYLATE, DISODIUM INOSINATE, FERRIC ORTHOPHOSPHATE, FERROUS SULFATE, THIAMIN MONONITRATE, TURMERIC EXTRACT, FOLIC ACID, RIBOFLAVIN.

 

http://www.ricearoni.com/Products/Rice-A-Roni/Classic_Favorites/Chicken/Ingredients/

 

I wouldn't be putting in any of those except maybe rice, salt, garlic and chicken broth/stock...

[Χά�ων]

Wait.  I don't understand this.  Does this mean that I can't eat an apple because it comes from a plant?  That can't be right. . . .

Ack. I meant "Was it made in a plant". Off to change it.

[gardenmom5]

to me, food that isn't in it's natural, no-ingredients added, state are "processed". things that require other chemicals to change them to the state in which they enter the market.  e.g. most flours are reasonably basic.  sour cream with, among other things, carrageenan added -isn't natural. (though unless you're into label reading, you probably wouldn't know it.)

[Χά�ων]

Interestingly, DS doesn't drink soda. He went to a birthday party a few weeks ago and said the Sprite was disgusting. I agreed with him but I was not going to pay $2 for a water at the concession stand.

[Mrs Mungo]

I still think in terms of the way LLL taught me to think when my kids were babies. It's better to eat food that is closer to its natural state. If you mostly eat food that looks more like a steak or stick of celery, then you'll be better off than if you eat mostly food that looks like nothing that exists in nature (like cheetos). We eat processed food, but we limit it by eating mostly whole foods. Does that make sense?

 

Plain chicken broth, even though it comes out of a factory, is a pretty "whole food" in which added ingredients/preservatives are limited. Something like a whole wheat cracker is higher on the ladder of acceptable (to me) than frosted chocolate sugar bomb cereal. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

Ack. I meant "Was it made in a plant". Off to change it.

LOL - now that makes a lot more sense!

[lailasmum]

I tend to think of it as more traditional prep methods and ingredients vs modern. Say for example a lot of recipes can be looked at and they contain ok ingredients recognisable to on older generation and probably in its simplest form, say beef, veg, herbs and spices etc.. vs a pre packaged processed version that may be coloured to it make it more appealing or have artificial flavours, or have very high levels of sugar or salt (vs say a pinch in home cooking) or have lots of preservatives so it can sit on a shelf, or have ingredients with long complex names that are unrecognisable as ingredients a home cook.would use.

[Ellie]

I keep trying to think through "eating less processed foods" -- but, as a black-and-white thinker, I get all confused about what exactly makes something "processed" or not.

 

Like, say, milk. It's obviously 1. Milked, 2. Stored, 3. Transported, and almost universally 4. Pasteurized, and usually 5. Partially skimmed, oh and 6. Packaged and sterilized. Those are all "processes" so is milk "a processed food" or not?

 

Where do people draw these lines went they say, "I don't eat processed foods"? Or does it vary? Or are there specific "processes" only that are being avoided? I have read an arbitrary 'number of ingredients' rule, but that seems not to make sense if the idea is to avoid "processing" -- And does it matter if I "process" it (by making a dish from a recipe)? And how is that different from the kinds of processes that are worth avoiding... And why are processes worth avoiding anyhow?

 

See the loop I get stuck in? Anybod got this figured out?

 

American cheese and Spam would count as processed foods to me. Cheerios, Froot Loops, Rice-a-roni (because of the mishmash of fake ingredients) are all processed.

 

Milk is not. It looks pretty much as it did when it came out of the cow. :-) Cheddar cheese...no.

 

I try not to buy foods that have ingredients I cannot pronounce. I don't want refined white sugar or any sweetener that is not honey or pure maple syrup or molasses (ok, I use Splenda, lol). I make my own mayo but not my own ketchup (maybe that's because we just don't eat very much ketchup). I don't buy gravy mixes, or salad dressing mixes (although I do make spinach dip using Hidden Valley Ranch Dressing seasoning. :-p ) I prefer not to buy yogurt that has carageenan or gelatin in it as thickeners (because good grief, yogurt should be thick on its own). I prefer not to buy heavy cream that has carageenan in it, but I cannot find any here in central Texas without it, so I try not to think about it.

 

The book which really helped me figure out some of this stuff was "The Supermarket Handbook." Love that book, but I believe it is out of print. boo.

 

[Mergath]

For me, processed food is (for the most part) anything with more than one ingredient.  So, fresh carrots are fine.  Frozen carrot pieces are fine if they don't have other junk added.  The carrot/rice/pea mixture with fifteen added preservatives is processed.  Carrot juice with nothing else added to it would be borderline for me.  There's only one ingredient, but who knows what the poor carrots have had done to them. ;)

 

 

[bolt.]

So, what I'm getting is...

 

Do:

- Focus on incremental, manageable changes

- Eat fresh things as fresh as possible

- Eat a greater proportion of fresh-like things than average, a 'diet' somewhat skewed towards the natural is almost as good as an exclusively natural diet

- Eat old fashioned things

- Make exceptions for things you really like, things that that are hard to do without, or for occasional occurrences

- Eat grains or grain products as close to 'whole' as you can

- Try cold herbal teas for drinks with flavor

 

OK "Processes" even if done in a factory

- Baking

- Boiling / Cooking

- Mixing

- Fermenting

 

Avoid:

- Coloring

- Salt (always? or just 'a lot of it'?)

- HFCS

- Refined white sugar (less refined sugars too? What is the 'sugar extraction and refinement' process, and what are the detrimental effects?)

- Preservatives (all of them?)

- "Certain Additives" (more specific?)

- Chopped/canned/brined meats

- "American cheese" (= 'modified milk ingredients'?)

- Cheese itself?

- Mayo

- Ketchup

- Mustard

- Salad dressings

- Powdered sauces

- Gelatin

- Bread, Cookies (is this about ingredients? Or is it just that it was mixed/baked elsewhere?)

- Soda (does this fall under 'sugar'?)

- MSG

- Fast food

 

Questions:

- Cheese was mentioned: is that a grey area? How about cream cheese? Other dairy products?

- Carageenen was mentioned: isn't that seaweed extract used as thickener? It sounds like it may be quite "natural"?

- Cheerios were mentioned... why? Aren't they just mixed and cooked? Is there an objectionable ingredient?

- Use of the word "fake" -- what does that mean/imply? The ingredient is physically real, and clearly consumable... in what sense are they "not real"?

- What do I do if I'm really good at pronunciation, and actually understand lots about lots of ingredients? Does the 'rule of thumb' actually shift to allowing more things for people who are good with languages? Is the verbal complexity of a name really a good way to know if it is a nourishing ingredient or not?

- If you can eat some of these foods if you make them yourself (ie mayo) what is different about the 'process' -- or is it the ingredients?

- Gelatin was mentioned... does it have a specific issue, or is it just considered an unnecessary modification to naturally occurring textures?

- What about the idea that some things are added in such minute quantities that it might be a moot point?

- Doesn't this seem to be more about ingredients than "processes"?

- Stevia was not mentioned. Any thoughts?

[bettyandbob]

Like someone else said first look at the usual out aisles of the grocery stores. Start in fresh produce, walk the back through the fresh meat, end in the frozen food section with frozen fruits and vegetables to which nothing is added. On the inside aisles you will find brown rice and dried beans. 

 

I don't stick strictly to that, but I try as another poster said to stick to foods closer to their natural state. 

 

Just about anything in a box is many steps away from a natural state and has multiple unknown additives and fillers. 

 

My family had to go gluten free long before gf was "in" (11 years now), so we've been doing this awhile just to ensure we knew what was in our food. 

[Ellie]

So, what I'm getting is...

 

Do:

- Focus on incremental, manageable changes

- Eat fresh things as fresh as possible

- Eat a greater proportion of fresh-like things than average, a 'diet' somewhat skewed towards the natural is almost as good as an exclusively natural diet

- Eat old fashioned things

- Make exceptions for things you really like, things that that are hard to do without, or for occasional occurrences

- Eat grains or grain products as close to 'whole' as you can

- Try cold herbal teas for drinks with flavor

 

OK "Processes" even if done in a factory

- Baking

- Boiling / Cooking

- Mixing

- Fermenting

 

Avoid:

- Coloring

- Salt (always? or just 'a lot of it'?)

- HFCS

- Refined white sugar (less refined sugars too? What is the 'sugar extraction and refinement' process, and what are the detrimental effects?)

- Preservatives (all of them?)

- "Certain Additives" (more specific?)

- Chopped/canned/brined meats

- "American cheese" (= 'modified milk ingredients'?)

- Cheese itself?

- Mayo

- Ketchup

- Mustard

- Salad dressings

- Powdered sauces

- Gelatin

- Bread, Cookies (is this about ingredients? Or is it just that it was mixed/baked elsewhere?)

- Soda (does this fall under 'sugar'?)

- MSG

- Fast food

 

Questions:

- Cheese was mentioned: is that a grey area? How about cream cheese? Other dairy products?

- Carageenen was mentioned: isn't that seaweed extract used as thickener? It sounds like it may be quite "natural"?

- Cheerios were mentioned... why? Aren't they just mixed and cooked? Is there an objectionable ingredient?

- Use of the word "fake" -- what does that mean/imply? The ingredient is physically real, and clearly consumable... in what sense are they "not real"?

- What do I do if I'm really good at pronunciation, and actually understand lots about lots of ingredients? Does the 'rule of thumb' actually shift to allowing more things for people who are good with languages? Is the verbal complexity of a name really a good way to know if it is a nourishing ingredient or not?

- If you can eat some of these foods if you make them yourself (ie mayo) what is different about the 'process' -- or is it the ingredients?

- Gelatin was mentioned... does it have a specific issue, or is it just considered an unnecessary modification to naturally occurring textures?

- What about the idea that some things are added in such minute quantities that it might be a moot point?

- Doesn't this seem to be more about ingredients than "processes"?

- Stevia was not mentioned. Any thoughts?

 

Cheese--real cheese--is fine. In fact, dairy products in general are fine (as long as it isn't yogurt which has carageenan added).

 

I can't get worked up over canned tuna, as long as it's a brand that doesn't have modified food starch or hydrolyzed vegetable protein added. Canned corned beef is fine. It's "Spam" that's nasty, lol.

 

It isn't that carageenen...caragenan...rats...is bad; it's that it used used to thicken things that will be thick on their own, such as heavy cream or yogurt. If you used it in something like, IDK, gravy, that would be fine.

 

Can you see the difference between oatmeal--real oatmeal, not the kind that you add boiling water to--and Cheerios? That's why Cheerios is processed and oatmeal is not.

 

Mayo--it's the ingredients. If you can find a mayo that doesn't have thickeners and chemicals and whatnot, that would be fine. But mayo only has three main ingredients: oil, eggs, vinegar (not counting seasonings like salt and dry mustard). The fewer the ingredients on something like that, the better.

 

Gelatin might not be bad, unless, again, it's used to thicken something that would be thick on its own if prepared properly.

 

i don't have a problem with salt. I'm going to add it, anyway, KWIM?

 

I don't want HFCS because it's a processed sweetener (as opposed to honey or pure maple syrup). There are natural food colorings (Altadena Diary used to make a yogurt that used natural colorings like grape skins or something), but artificial food colorings...absolutely not.

 

Chemicals such as BHT...well, anything that is is a bunch of letters is bad.

 

Baked goods--it's about the ingredients. I'm puzzled as to why you think that "prepared elsewhere" is a consideration, or is comparable to the processing that occurs in making fake food like American cheese. :huh:

 

[bolt.]

That's really helpful...

 

The Cheerios thing: I see how they are different from oatmeal (water, salt, sweetening & cooked & moist & hot) but how do Cheerios differ from 'really little baked cookies made from oat flour' -- is it ingredients? Or processing?

 

The bread thing: it must be that I don't get why it's called "avoiding processed foods" if its really abou ingredients rather than "processes" -- with bread the "processes" are mixing and baking, which are fine (either at home or in a factory? Right?)... It's that last half-dozen ingredients that are the objection, since they aren't in home made bread/baking? So, a 'home-like bakery' that didn't use those would be called "not processed" but it really means, what? free of preservatives, stabilizers and other weird chemicals?

 

Am I beginning to understand the definition? Is my confusion coming from the idea that "processed" is a way if talking about "common commercial food preparation additives" -- not a reference to "processes" at all?

[Jean in Newcastle]

Processed usually means "made shelf stable" in my opinion.  That's why they have all the commercial food additives.  You want the stuff that molds, not the Twinkie that Wall-E can eat after years on the shelf!  Cheerios has been made shelf stable with the addition of preservatives.  Some store bought granola might be processed - in fact most are, even if they say "natural ingredients" on it.  If you look hard,  you might find some that aren't but by that time, it might be easier to make your own. ;)  Many of the artisanal type breads at the bakery are made without preservatives.  

[Parrothead]

I'm firmly on the side of if it can't be recognized as food then it isn't. Milk can be recognized as food.  The orange stuff in the pouch that comes in the mac and cheese box is not food.  An orange is food.  An orange flavored ice pop is not food. 

[catz]

I look at ingredient lists. Here are the ingredient lists for 2 different yogurts. One is minimally processed. One is highly processed. I would only buy the first. So I do buy some pre-prepared foods, but they have to have natural ingredients.

 

 

CULTURED PASTEURIZED ORGANIC LOW FAT MILK, PECTIN, VITAMIN D3.

CULTURES: S. THERMOPHILUS, L. BULGARICUS, L. ACIDOPHILUS, BIFIDUS, L. CASEI, AND L. RHAMNOSUS

 

Cultured Pasteurized Grade A Low Fat Milk, Sugar, Strawberries, Modified Corn Starch, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Nonfat Milk, Kosher Gelatin, Citric Acid, Tricalcium Phosphate, Natural Flavor, Pectin, Colored with Carmine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3.

[Carrie12345]

- Stevia was not mentioned. Any thoughts?

I read that the stevia processing process (lol) is considered questionable. The plants themselves are SO cheap. I grabbed a bunch of leaves from the farmer's market and made my own stevia extract. (And dried the rest for later batches.) I saw a video somewhere of a woman juicing and she threw in a clump of leaves that juiced with the rest of her produce. If I had a juicer, I'd be all over that!

[Jean in Newcastle]

I read that the stevia processing process (lol) is considered questionable. The plants themselves are SO cheap. I grabbed a bunch of leaves from the farmer's market and made my own stevia extract. (And dried the rest for later batches.) I saw a video somewhere of a woman juicing and she threw in a clump of leaves that juiced with the rest of her produce. If I had a juicer, I'd be all over that!

OK - I get the idea of making your own extract.  How do you do that, btw?  

 

But why would you add it to juice?  Or did the juice not have any fruit in it?  

[Carrie12345]

OK - I get the idea of making your own extract.  How do you do that, btw?  

 

But why would you add it to juice?  Or did the juice not have any fruit in it?

She was mixing fruits and veggies. I'm guessing it was to offset the vegetables.

 

I used water for my first batch. Let the leaves steep for 24 hours, then refrigerated. Amounts weren't all that important since it was easy enough to add more to my tea (or more tea to it, as my first taste proved.) I used a half-pint jar very loosely packed and covered with water.

 

I saw an alcohol method online that would keep it shelf stable (I think) but I haven't given that one a shot yet.

[Laura Corin]

Ok, but take Rice a Roni, for example.  I suppose the seasoning they put in there are who knows what.  But otherwise, it's rice.  Right?  What makes it so much worse than doing it yourself?  Is it really just the seasonings?  I'm not so sure.

 

 

For Rice a Roni: if you would put in chemical seasonings with lots of unknown names yourself, then I agree that it is no different from buying the whole thing in a packet.  If you would flavour your rice with home made chicken stock/broth and scallions, then I'd skip the Rice a Roni.

 

L

[lailasmum]

So, what I'm getting is...

 

Do:

- Focus on incremental, manageable changes

- Eat fresh things as fresh as possible

- Eat a greater proportion of fresh-like things than average, a 'diet' somewhat skewed towards the natural is almost as good as an exclusively natural diet

- Eat old fashioned things

- Make exceptions for things you really like, things that that are hard to do without, or for occasional occurrences

- Eat grains or grain products as close to 'whole' as you can

- Try cold herbal teas for drinks with flavor

 

OK "Processes" even if done in a factory

- Baking

- Boiling / Cooking

- Mixing

- Fermenting

 

Avoid:

- Coloring

- Salt (always? or just 'a lot of it'?)

- HFCS

- Refined white sugar (less refined sugars too? What is the 'sugar extraction and refinement' process, and what are the detrimental effects?)

- Preservatives (all of them?)

- "Certain Additives" (more specific?)

- Chopped/canned/brined meats

- "American cheese" (= 'modified milk ingredients'?)

- Cheese itself?

- Mayo

- Ketchup

- Mustard

- Salad dressings

- Powdered sauces

- Gelatin

- Bread, Cookies (is this about ingredients? Or is it just that it was mixed/baked elsewhere?)

- Soda (does this fall under 'sugar'?)

- MSG

- Fast food

 

Questions:

- Cheese was mentioned: is that a grey area? How about cream cheese? Other dairy products?

- Carageenen was mentioned: isn't that seaweed extract used as thickener? It sounds like it may be quite "natural"?

- Cheerios were mentioned... why? Aren't they just mixed and cooked? Is there an objectionable ingredient?

- Use of the word "fake" -- what does that mean/imply? The ingredient is physically real, and clearly consumable... in what sense are they "not real"?

- What do I do if I'm really good at pronunciation, and actually understand lots about lots of ingredients? Does the 'rule of thumb' actually shift to allowing more things for people who are good with languages? Is the verbal complexity of a name really a good way to know if it is a nourishing ingredient or not?

- If you can eat some of these foods if you make them yourself (ie mayo) what is different about the 'process' -- or is it the ingredients?

- Gelatin was mentioned... does it have a specific issue, or is it just considered an unnecessary modification to naturally occurring textures?

- What about the idea that some things are added in such minute quantities that it might be a moot point?

- Doesn't this seem to be more about ingredients than "processes"?

- Stevia was not mentioned. Any thoughts?

 

I think that the issue is with highly processed food not food that is home cooked simply or processes like traditional cheese making where things are close to their original form. Here manufacturers are catching on massively so you can buy stuff easily that are much simpler and don't contain the colouring and flavouring.

 

Salt is necessary in small quantities. It regulates blood pressure.

 

Gelatin in some cases doesn't bother me. I find it strange in things that are naturally thick anyway such as yogurt, you then have to question it's presence in that product is because it may not be 'real food' as such. Say yogurt. Yogurt is simple and turns into a thick mass pretty easily, but it takes time. If a manufacturer wants to make a thick dessert but fill it full of artifical colours, flavours and preservatives and make it low fat then they may need gelling agent to make it thick so it can be sold as a desert. 

 

I think you might find it useful if you do some research into commercial production and some research into the chemicals that get added to food and that have a negative effect of our health and behaviour.

 

This show is a whole series about food processing it might help you figure some of it out and whether some processes are bad or not.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKR5T0OkGCo&feature=share&list=PLiMnkbBCIdoNDCXJ1lcJJtjkf5EsKL96z

 

[Night Elf]

This is a fascinating topic and gives me much to think about. I'd be embarrassed for some of you to look in my pantry! :ohmy:

[MissKNG]

If you can find a "How it's Made" episode on a food then it's processed! :lol:

[DawnM]

Yeah, me too. Only I wouldn't be that embarrassed. We just aren't 100% whole food eaters and we know it. I simply don't have the desire or the time to put in to making my own extract, milking my own cow, or making everything from scratch.

 

I am now wheat free due to allergies and I may be going milk free soon. I do drink commercially processed almond milk. I have made my own in the past.......it is ok but a lot of effort.

 

We have a juicer. It is a big ole PITB......by the time I have 12 ounces of juice it has taken me over 20-30 min. to prep, make, and clean up.

 

I think some women LOVE the kitchen and some women (like me) simply don't. I hate cooking and I hate cleaning. There ya go.

 

What I do that does simplify things is I do simple meals. One starch, one protein, and one vegetable. One boy makes the salad, I grill some meat and I use the rice cooker or bake some potatoes.

 

But we have cereal in the cupboard, ice cream in the freezer, and soda in our basement fridge.

 

Dawn

 

This is a fascinating topic and gives me much to think about. I'd be embarrassed for some of you to look in my pantry! :ohmy:

[Dory]

Just to add, if I were to make cheese and yoghurt at home, it would already be thick. If they are making it and need to add gelatin to make it thick, what are they not doing/adding that it didn't thicken naturally? When ingredients are present that I wouldn't be using myself, I have to ask why.

 

I don't buy anything that I couldn't make myself and it has to have ingredients that I recognize. Even ice cream is out because I have no interest in eating something that is flavored with a extract from beaver anal glands. We make our own now.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Yeah, me too. Only I wouldn't be that embarrassed. We just aren't 100% whole food eaters and we know it. I simply don't have the desire or the time to put in to making my own extract, milking my own cow, or making everything from scratch.

 

I am now wheat free due to allergies and I may be going milk free soon. I do drink commercially processed almond milk. I have made my own in the past.......it is ok but a lot of effort.

 

We have a juicer. It is a big ole PITB......by the time I have 12 ounces of juice it has taken me over 20-30 min. to prep, make, and clean up.

 

I think some women LOVE the kitchen and some women (like me) simply don't. I hate cooking and I hate cleaning. There ya go.

 

What I do that does simplify things is I do simple meals. One starch, one protein, and one vegetable. One boy makes the salad, I grill some meat and I use the rice cooker or bake some potatoes.

 

But we have cereal in the cupboard, ice cream in the freezer, and soda in our basement fridge.

 

Dawn

 

I don't have the time or energy to spend in the kitchen either.  But I can buy some short-cut foods - like precut fruit or veggies.  They are still whole foods - just cut up for me and thus more expensive.  I can also buy the more whole food artisanal breads, cheeses etc. - even ice cream if I look hard enough.  But I sure pay for it at the register!  90% of the time I do what you do and just cook simple meals.  

[vmsurbat]

 

The bread thing: it must be that I don't get why it's called "avoiding processed foods" if its really abou ingredients rather than "processes" -- with bread the "processes" are mixing and baking, which are fine (either at home or in a factory? Right?)... It's that last half-dozen ingredients that are the objection, since they aren't in home made bread/baking? So, a 'home-like bakery' that didn't use those would be called "not processed" but it really means, what? free of preservatives, stabilizers and other weird chemicals?

 

Am I beginning to understand the definition? Is my confusion coming from the idea that "processed" is a way if talking about "common commercial food preparation additives" -- not a reference to "processes" at all?

 

First, as to the bread thing:  You are right that even homemade bread is a "processed" food and the reason why some people avoid it.  However, since bread has been around for millenia and eaten the world over, most people don't think of it as highly processed or modern.

 

However, store-bought bread (except for expensive artisanal loaves) *is* produced in a way that no home baker could reproduce.  Really old-time home-made bread took at least a day.  With modern yeast and methods, a typical  modern home-made white loaf takes a couple of hours (mix/knead for 10 minutes, first rise, punch down, shape, second rise, and bake).  But in factory-produced bread, loaves are mixed/kneaded/baked within minutes which doesn't allow for natural flavors/nutrition/textures to develop.  So, the factory bread uses dough conditioners, enzymes, and other additives (even if natural) to try to make-up for the loss of taste, texture, and nutrition in the hurried loaves.

 

Second, as to the "processed" food definition, a person on another board suggested a better, imo, term since cheese, home-made vinegarette dressing, tomato sauce, etc. are all "processed" foods, is the term "manufactured" food--something manufactured in a factory in a way and/or with ingredients that could only be made in a factory--so most store-bought salad dressings would be manufactured because of extra ingredients.  A more expensive dressing with completely recognized ingredients might still be "iffy" because of how it is made.

 

However, there is no one definition of processed food, so as much as you would like to have it in b+w, we all have to draw those lines for ourselves.

 

HTH,

[Liz CA]

I found it helpful to read the ingredient list and when there were a lot of words that nobody knew what it is, it is more processed.

I have since narrowed it down even more but this was a personal choice after being ill.

 

Example: Diethylglycol, Piperonal, Aldehyde, Ethyl Acetate

 

versus:  Cream, Salt, vanilla extract, Sugar

 

You can go a lot more detailed and specific with what you consider processed. A good book is "Nourishing Traditions." It contains a lot of explanations of what and why something is either good or bad to consume.

 

By the way, celtic or red sea salt is much better than regular table salt which has been denatured and the sodium chloride taken out and replaced with cheap chemicals. Your salt should have a very high percentage of pure sodium chloride and trace minerals. "Real Salt" by Redmond is pretty good or "Celtic Sea Salt."

[ktgrok]

Here is a REALLY simple way to divide it up...can you make it at home? If you or a normal person COULD make it at home, fairly easily, if you wanted to, it probably isn't very processed. So, I could grind wheat at home and make bread. I can't make "white flour" at home. I could keep bees and collect honey at home, I couldn't make high fructose corn syrup at home. I could smoke a ham at home, I couldn't make spam at home. 

 

If you need crazy factory equipment, don't eat it. 

[Nestof3]

I love this ice cream:

http://www.turkeyhill.com/products/all-natural-recipe-flavors.aspx?pID=494

 

http://www.turkeyhill.com/products/all-natural-recipe-flavors.aspx?pID=500

 

Unfortunately, our Kroger only sells vanilla and chocolate, but they are good.

 

I also found a recipe for homemade magic shell using chocolate chips and coconut oil

 

Just to add, if I were to make cheese and yoghurt at home, it would already be thick. If they are making it and need to add gelatin to make it thick, what are they not doing/adding that it didn't thicken naturally? When ingredients are present that I wouldn't be using myself, I have to ask why.

 

I don't buy anything that I couldn't make myself and it has to have ingredients that I recognize. Even ice cream is out because I have no interest in eating something that is flavored with a extract from beaver anal glands. We make our own now.

[Jean in Newcastle]

Makes sense.  Although that doesn't necessarily mean that because you can make it at home that it is healthy.  I can make cake, pie, candy bars, potato chips, Twinkie like cakes battered and deep fried, etc. at home. 

 

Where does rice fall into this?  I can't make that at home.  I don't like rice so that's not much of a factor for me, but I wonder if it is considered heavily processed (or healthy).

 

If you lived in an area with rice paddies, you could make rice at home.  It would just be brown rice.  

[Laura Corin]

 

 

Where does rice fall into this?  I can't make that at home.  I don't like rice so that's not much of a factor for me, but I wonder if it is considered heavily processed (or healthy).

 

I'm not clear about what you mean by not being able to make rice at home.  I don't think that anyone is expecting you to grow all your own food: you can buy wheat or wheat flour to use; you can buy rice (brown for the less denatured version) and use it at home.

 

I buy brown rice, put in in the rice cooker with water and when the water has boiled away, the rice is ready.

 

L

[Jean in Newcastle]

In Japan, you plant the rice in water filled paddies, drain the paddy at the proper time and let everything dry out and ripen, cut the rice and thresh it.  Voila - brown rice.  As a interesting trivia tidbit, there are coin operated rice polishing machines that small farmers can put their brown rice through to make it polished white rice.  The polishing process removes the bran making it less nutritious.  

[Laura Corin]

And what is in rice that makes it healthy?  What nutrients are in it?  Looking at a box of rice in my pantry it doesn't seem to have much of anything.  The stuff listed that it does have is very low in terms of what is supposedly needed/recommended.  For example, it provides 2% of needed iron.  That isn't much. 

 

I don't think that white rice is particularly healthy.  Brown rice has extra fibre (not a big deal for us as we eat a lot of fruit and veg) and extra protein (more important for us as we don't eat much meat).  I think that rice is considered healthy in comparison to many other things that people use to fill themselves up.  Brown rice is a whole grain carbohydrate that is healthier than highly salted French fries or sugar-added supermarket bread.

 

I just like the taste and it's one of a variety of starches that we eat.

 

L

[Dory]

I'm just admitting my ignorance to how rice gets to the state it is in when it is on a store shelf.   I know one can grow rice, but how do you harvest it?   Would you dry it out yourself?  Would you just cook it fresh? 

 

I mean wheat is heavily processed.  We don't just crunch up the wheat and eat it.  And from what I understand, even if you do grind your own wheat that it loses nutritional value so quickly it might not necessarily be healthier than buying enriched flour. 

 

People that I know that grind their own wheat don't grind a bunch ahead of time. The wheat is harvested and cleaned (basically sifted to get debris out) and then we grind as we need. Different forms of wheat have different amounts of nutrition too. Emmer is different than the winter wheat my FIL grows.

[goldberry]

I still think in terms of the way LLL taught me to think when my kids were babies. It's better to eat food that is closer to its natural state. If you mostly eat food that looks more like a steak or stick of celery, then you'll be better off than if you eat mostly food that looks like nothing that exists in nature (like cheetos). We eat processed food, but we limit it by eating mostly whole foods. Does that make sense?

 

Plain chicken broth, even though it comes out of a factory, is a pretty "whole food" in which added ingredients/preservatives are limited. Something like a whole wheat cracker is higher on the ladder of acceptable (to me) than frosted chocolate sugar bomb cereal. 

 

This is how I was taught and believe also.  I think about how many steps it has gone through.  Something with ingredients that have already gone through many steps (chemicals and fillers, etc) is more processed than something with simple ingredients (garlic, salt, rice), so that's less steps it had to go through.

 

I look for food closest to its natural state, then check for fewest ingredients with names I recognize.

 

Question though, does anyone have a link or source for a good list of common unknown food ingredients?  I mean when it says carrageenan, a list that shows what that means?  I could use that right now.