The Hannah Anderson case is disturbing and..........

[Joanne]

an example of why "Protecting the Gift" needs to be required reading for parents - or at least the information taught and presented.

 

This is just one article, but others show *clues* and *red flags* dating back:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/10/california-search-missing-girl.html

[Alicia64]

an example of why "Protecting the Gift" needs to be required reading for parents - or at least the information taught and presented.

 

This is just one article, but others show *clues* and *red flags* dating back:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/08/10/california-search-missing-girl.html

 

This situation has been bothering me all day. I'm so happy that they found her, of course, but I can't see letting an "Uncle" hang out w/ my stunning daughter.

 

Biological or not, molest is part of our world. I can't understand a parent not getting that.

 

I have boys and i watch them like a hawk.

 

I agree 100 percent with you. Protecting the Gift should be required reading.

 

Alley

[Scarlett]

So very sad. I don't know the particulars of what they allowed but I too watch my son like a hawk. There is no man other than my dad and ds's dad that I let him spend time with alone.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I'm glad that they found her.  The Amber Alert was very big here.  The alert went off during Wed. night service at church and everyone's cellphones started chirping at the same time to let everyone know there was a text!  (The Amber alert system sends out blanket alerts to cellphones.)

[Danestress]

This situation has been bothering me all day. I'm so happy that they found her, of course, but I can't see letting an "Uncle" hang out w/ my stunning daughter.

 

Biological or not, molest is part of our world. I can't understand a parent not getting that.

 

I have boys and i watch them like a hawk.

 

I agree 100 percent with you. Protecting the Gift should be required reading.

 

Alley

See, that isn't at all what I got from Protecting the Gift. It was a book that made a huge impact on me and opened my eyes. I recommend it all the time. But maybe I need to reread it, because I didn't get out of it what so many others seem to. I thought 'the gift' was an instinct of reasonable fear. To me, saying every single man is a threat is actually a 'gift killer.' My sons spend time with uncles, friends, and other people I trust. I felt PTG helped me think through who to trust, to pick up on clues, and to trust my doubts and instincts. Best of all, it helped release me from putting too much value on 'being nice' to people. It didn't, to me, encourage hovering as much as wisdom.

[I.Dup.]

I have not followed this case, as I rarely do for cases like this. I have some past trauma and don't like to read detailed descriptions of children being hurt. Would Protecting the Gift still be considered healthy for someone like me, who already tends toward being paranoid and overly cautious in this area?

[gardenmom5]

that was my impression of "protecting the gift" as well.  the "gift" of warnings from our guts, our "momsense/momgut", reasonable fear, paying attention to flags. learning what flags ARE.  we don't know how much the daughter told her mother about how uncomfortable this man reportedly made her, but somewhere flags were being ignored.    even after she told her friend she was uncomfortable around this man - she still was around him, she just took her friend with her when she was with him so they wouldn't be alone.  I find that perhaps most disturbing of all - the girl was very uncomfortable and creeped out, but for some reason didn't see severing contact with this guy as an option. 

[Jean in Newcastle]

I have not followed this case, as I rarely do for cases like this. I have some past trauma and don't like to read detailed descriptions of children being hurt. Would Protecting the Gift still be considered healthy for someone like me, who already tends toward being paranoid and overly cautious in this area?

I had to stop reading the anecdotal parts of the book because it was giving me nightmare/flashbacks.  But I skimmed enough to know the basic message of the book - which I agree with and support.  It has not made me watch anyone, including my son and husband, like a hawk, but it has reinforced the idea that I should be aware of vibes that I have even if I can't put a finger on why I feel the way that I do.

[Joanne]

See, that isn't at all what I got from Protecting the Gift. It was a book that made a huge impact on me and opened my eyes. I recommend it all the time. But maybe I need to reread it, because I didn't get out of it what so many others seem to. I thought 'the gift' was an instinct of reasonable fear. To me, saying every single man is a threat is actually a 'gift killer.' My sons spend time with uncles, friends, and other people I trust. I felt PTG helped me think through who to trust, to pick up on clues, and to trust my doubts and instincts. Best of all, it helped release me from putting too much value on 'being nice' to people. It didn't, to me, encourage hovering as much as wisdom.

 

Totally. And why I posted what I did. As I read about this case, the signs were all over the history with this man.

 

The first few posts in this thread after the OP were like my anti-point. I don't see "men", "all men", "many men" as the enemy or potential predators. I'm RAISING 2 boys/men and it sure makes me sad to think they are suspect simply because they have penises.

 

Protecting the Gift is about *radar* and knowing the signs - which predators wear.

[Ravin]

You also cannot ignore that while it's less common, women can also be predators.

 

I recently observed a court trial. The family had no idea what was happening under their noses until years later when the victim disclosed. In hindsight there were signs, but none they could see at the time.

 

Often you just don't see, and there are no recognized red flags except in hindsight.

[Joanne]

You also cannot ignore that while it's less common, women can also be predators.

 

I recently observed a court trial. The family had no idea what was happening under their noses until years later when the victim disclosed. In hindsight there were signs, but none they could see at the time.

 

Often you just don't see, and there are no recognized red flags except in hindsight.

 

 

I hear you on the woman as predators.

For the bold, I believe that *education* and *awareness* and a change in indoctrination and socialization would change that.

[Scarlett]

I hear you on the woman as predators.

For the bold, I believe that *education* and *awareness* and a change in indoctrination and socialization would change that.

What indoctrination? What socialization.

 

I don't see all men as bad, but I have been very cautious with my son. Too often there really are no signs.

[WagsWife]

There is "Protecting the Gift" (which I agree should be required reading for parents), but there is also common sense. Understanding that there is nothing normal or right in allowing their teenage daughter to go on a weeklong trip with an adult male--by themselves!!!--does not require a "feeling of unease", it only requires the smallest amount of common sense.

 

**Obviously "adult male" does not include fathers.

[Laurie4b]

I read on a couple of news sites that Hannah didn't know her mother and brother had been killed. Can anyone figure out how that could have happened with him setting fire to the place and all?  How would he have gotten her out of there against her will when she thought they were going to say good-bye to him? Maybe he drugged all of them first?

[Lilaclady]

This story is sounding a bit fishy to me. Apparently 48 hrs after finding out that her mom and brother are dead she is on social media posting pics of herself smiling and fielding questions from people. It just doesn't add up for me.

[momacacia]

I've read that AP article at least twice now and the only "red flags" I hear about were those seen by the horseback riders on the trail, not by Hannah or her father or friends. ??? There is the one account in another article about DiMaggio's "crush" comment, but that sounds unsubstantiated and was only a few short days or so before the murders/kidnapping, right? It just seems there was nothing to see, her Dad said he never saw any "strange behavior."

 

I'd love to think there were some tips or flags that someone can 20/20 on, and we can all learn from, but it sounds like nothing.

[Joker]

This story is sounding a bit fishy to me. Apparently 48 hrs after finding out that her mom and brother are dead she is on social media posting pics of herself smiling and fielding questions from people. It just doesn't add up for me.

 

Maybe because she's in shock? Or she's overwhelmed? Maybe because social media is the way many teens today communicate and get their feelings out there? I find it more troubling that some are so quick to doubt her.

[Nestof3]

I know nothing of this case, but thank you for the book recommendation. My kids don't spend lots of time with anyone outside of us. How horrible.

[Seasider]

I heard a brief radio news blip on that. My immediate reaction was, how smart! I'm sure she's gotten many requests for interviews, but the fb format allows her to tell the story her way, to address questions with a bit of safe distance, kwim, in a way that is comfortable for her. She can avoid or delay the morning news circuit til she's good and ready, yet still satisfy the media's press for information.

[Retired]

I've watch the case and wondered on his relationship with the family.  She grew up with the guy in the same role it seems like an uncle.  The guy obviously became infatuated with her ( in love) didn't want to be separated from her when he moved to Texas.  He was obviously crazy.  What we don't know is was Hannah groomed into thinking she was "in love" with him and wanted to leave with him.  Its hard to say.  She may be posting on social media similar to telling your best friend your thoughts.  She is a teen and they aren't going to handle stuff like we adult think they should.

  They may even have her on some type of med to keep her in a happy state.

 

My cousin and her daughter where in a accident back in February.  My cousin died on impact and her daughter walk away without a scratch.  She was so messed up they put her on stuff just to get her through the funeral.  She has been on stuff since all her Facebook posting don't seem like she grieved.  

 

So yes this case has been wide spread and we are all speculation on the whole affair but even if Hannah was in on the plan - I still say she is a victim who was groomed,  brain washed by a sick perv.  I just hope that her dad gets her counseling no matter what the whole circumstance were in the case and she is able to live a full life.   She could  suffer from all types of survivor guilt, ptsd, ? rape or  my consensual either one still could be all types of messed up.

 

 

[milovany]

Maybe because she's in shock? Or she's overwhelmed? Maybe because social media is the way many teens today communicate and get their feelings out there? I find it more troubling that some are so quick to doubt her.

 

I agree!  Our generation (40+?) didn't grow up using email and social media to process really horrible things happening.  Her generation absolutely is. I don't love that, but I'm not at all surprised that she took it to her social media account to process.  Who said she was all happy and smiling while posting?  The quotes I read just sounded like working/crying/thinking things through, and then someone (a reporter?) asked her to post a photo to kinda prove it was her and the one she posted was of her smiling.  Doesn't mean she was chipper at the keyboard.  Just processing. 

[Joanne]

I've read that AP article at least twice now and the only "red flags" I hear about were those seen by the horseback riders on the trail, not by Hannah or her father or friends. ??? There is the one account in another article about DiMaggio's "crush" comment, but that sounds unsubstantiated and was only a few short days or so before the murders/kidnapping, right? It just seems there was nothing to see, her Dad said he never saw any "strange behavior."

 

I'd love to think there were some tips or flags that someone can 20/20 on, and we can all learn from, but it sounds like nothing.

 

 

Nope. Sorry. I'm not believing that a man that level of unwell was in relationship with the family for that long without red flags.

 

I will believe that the red flags were not recognized, or that they were actively ignored. Because not recognized and actively ignored are the natural consequence of the "be nice" and "don't make waves"  culture we are in, and especially women/girls.

There ARE signs. If you are trained in them, you see them.

[SKL]

even after she told her friend she was uncomfortable around this man - she still was around him, she just took her friend with her when she was with him so they wouldn't be alone.  I find that perhaps most disturbing of all - the girl was very uncomfortable and creeped out, but for some reason didn't see severing contact with this guy as an option. 

 

I did the same thing when I was 12 and a family friend tried stuff with me.  Everyone knew I was in the habit of visiting this guy, and I had no idea how to say I didn't want to any more, so I kept going, but tried not to get stuck alone with him.  I told some girl friends that he was not to be trusted, but I was afraid to tell anyone in my family.  I felt the fallout would be disastrous for all involved.  I didn't want to create trouble for my dad, who would obviously have to take action, or for my brothers and sister, who enjoyed visiting other people in that house all the time.  Plus, I felt guilty for being what is now called "groomed."

 

Come to find out years later, there was other stuff going on in that house involving at least one of my siblings. Said sibling(s) never told anything, either.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

This story is sounding a bit fishy to me. Apparently 48 hrs after finding out that her mom and brother are dead she is on social media posting pics of herself smiling and fielding questions from people. It just doesn't add up for me.

 

I felt the same way. Honestly, it rang strange to me from the beginning. I really don't know why. She also got her nails done--pink for her mom and blue for her brother, supposedly. I wondered if it could be shock too, but I don't know. It isn't sitting right with me. I almost posted about it earlier today, too.

[SKL]

I am sure she is in shock.  I am surprised people are attacking a 15yo girl who has been abducted, probably abused for days, terrorized, witness to at least one violent killing, and a lot of other things over which she had no control, and then upon rescue learned that her mother and little brother have been murdered and burnt to a crisp.  (She said he had tied them up in the garage, but she didn't know they were killed.  Maybe she didn't know he started the fire as he was taking her away.  Maybe she assumed someone would find them and free them.  Seems plausible to me.)

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

I'm not attacking her at all. I think it's very possible she could be in shock. I was just saying that it all sounded really odd to me from the beginning, which is unusual for me, because I usually take the news pretty much at face value. I couldn't even tell you why it seems off to me. I just know I wasn't surprised today when I heard about the social media stuff and the nails and whatnot. I really don't know why!

[Jean in Newcastle]

It feels off to me too.  I hope that I'm wrong.  But I had that feeling way back when they were spotted in the woods and the people reporting it said that she was calm.  I know she has an explanation for it but I just had a feeling.  But obviously I'm just someone watching and reading the news and only know what comes through those avenues.  

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

But obviously I'm just someone watching and reading the news and only know what comes through those avenues.  

 

Yes, this too. And they report before they confirm, so who knows which bits and pieces are real and which are hearsay. I'm not thinking too much about it, except to be glad she's home safe.

[Nestof3]

There really is no way for us to know whether she was in on it. It could truly be either way. It isn't the first time it's happened. I'm not sure why it's so inconceivable unless its because people don't want to believe a young lady could turn against her own family in favor of a man -- either through brainwashing or because of other reasons.

[5of5]

I don't trust media reporting either, but all of the telephone calls he made to her is an interesting additional piece of information. I doubt we will ever know the true story.

[goldberry]

I did the same thing when I was 12 and a family friend tried stuff with me.  Everyone knew I was in the habit of visiting this guy, and I had no idea how to say I didn't want to any more, so I kept going, but tried not to get stuck alone with him.  I told some girl friends that he was not to be trusted, but I was afraid to tell anyone in my family.  I felt the fallout would be disastrous for all involved.  I didn't want to create trouble for my dad, who would obviously have to take action, or for my brothers and sister, who enjoyed visiting other people in that house all the time.  Plus, I felt guilty for being what is now called "groomed."

 

Come to find out years later, there was other stuff going on in that house involving at least one of my siblings. Said sibling(s) never told anything, either.

 

Thanks for sharing this.  It is good for us to be reminded that kids don't react the same way we think of things as an adult.

 

I'll admit feeling really thrown off by the social media thing.

[Moxie]

Assuming for a minute that they both planned this out (not saying that AT ALL, just making conversation) would she be charged with a crime? Or, because of her age, would she be another victim no matter how she participated?

[SKL]

Assuming for a minute that they both planned this out (not saying that AT ALL, just making conversation) would she be charged with a crime? Or, because of her age, would she be another victim no matter how she participated?

 

I would say she'd be a victim.

 

But anyway, how would they build such a case?  The other people involved are all dead.  Nor do I think interrogating her as to whether she really wanted all this bad stuff to happen is a good idea at this time.  Unless they have some clear evidence pointing in that direction.

 

[Trish]

There were something like a dozen calls between Hannah and DiMaggio (cell calls) prior to the murders on the day they occurred. Wonder what that was all about? For someone she considers "creepy," that is a lot of contact.

[Moxie]

She is a CHILD.  She is a victim.  regardless.  she can not consent.  Jesus.

 

 

I think protecting the gift is a bunch of hogwash.

IDK. She is 16, not 13. Stranger things have happened. I know nothing about the case except what is here but I wouldn't be shocked if it comes out that they did this together. Not at all saying that that is what I think happened, just that it wouldn't surprise me.

[Guest submarines]

Nope. Sorry. I'm not believing that a man that level of unwell was in relationship with the family for that long without red flags.

 

I will believe that the red flags were not recognized, or that they were actively ignored. Because not recognized and actively ignored are the natural consequence of the "be nice" and "don't make waves"  culture we are in, and especially women/girls.

There ARE signs. If you are trained in them, you see them.

He could've had a psychotic episode just at the very end. It is impossible to knowwhether he was "unwell" for their entire history.

[SKL]

There were something like a dozen calls between Hannah and DiMaggio (cell calls) prior to the murders on the day they occurred. Wonder what that was all about? For someone she considers "creepy," that is a lot of contact.

 

Assuming that's true, it could mean he had successfully groomed her to want to run off with him.  It does not mean she was on board with killing her family.

 

I wish people would not talk like this knowing that she is going to read and hear it all.  Considering it is extremely unlikely that a teen actually murdered her family, in all likelihood this is just adding insult to injury.  How would any of us feel if we were grieving our closest family members and simultaneiously being accused of killing them?  It's horrible.

 

In the unlikely event she had anything to do with the killings, she is in serious need of psychological care.  Not condemnation from random strangers.

[FaithManor]

I think our generation of parents has had access to more information about HOW this kind of thing happens so we feel more shock when someone else doesn't see the "red flags". But, not everyone is aware, and some criminals are SUPREMELY good actors who buffalo the best brains.

 

We feel better when we think "I would have noticed the signals." However, that isn't necessarily true, maybe we would have, maybe we wouldn't.

 

As for why she was calm in the woods, don't project how you would react onto another victim. Seriously, when there is a crisis, I go into a major, rational, calm, focused, hyperdrive. I melt down, if necessary, later. There isn't going to be any screaming, crying, hysterics, nerves, nothing. My husband says it's almost eerie how serene I can be. DD does this too and frankly, it's one of the things that makes her such a great medic.  Dh is excellent in a crisis, but he is definitely more emotionalish about it than I am. My eldest boy is a panicky kid, middle boy is calm, but slow to respond, youngest simply shuts down like a robot with an off switch.

 

There is a range of response to horror. We are no longer a society that believes in innocent until proven guilty.

 

As for social media, I am no fan whatsoever and kids do not seem to realize the danger in living your whole life for the masses to read about. Kids do not think about the fact that they might someday want a little privacy, but it's too late when you've spent years splashing every thought you ever had all over Facebook. There are things you live to regret. However, like many teens, the culture has inculcated her to believe that this is the appropriate venue for her to work through her feelings. So, I don't see this as anything indicating some sort of guilt or psychopathology in the young lady. Immaturity, an inability to consider how this might affect her in the future, definitely...guilty...no, just naive.

 

The perp, I'm kind of sad he's dead. I could have gone for some good, ole fashioned, justice in his case involving cattle prods attached to his genitals, possibly a very large, very deep, very unclimbable hole for him to be tossed into with the occasional moldy bread and some pond water tossed down to him...I would not have been averse to his receiving 100 years mining granite with a teaspoon in the artic...this is one reason it is important that I never go to law school, become a judge, and set out to create changes in the criminal code. There are a few sets of circumstances in which I could become quite uncivilized!!!

[Guest submarines]

She is a CHILD.  She is a victim.  regardless.  she can not consent.  Jesus.

 

 

I think protecting the gift is a bunch of hogwash.

Historically, children have been tried and convicted in adult courts. She is 16.

 

I haven't followed the case closely, but speaking generally, not every 16 year old who commits a crime is a victim.

 

Karla Homolka was 20 when the documented cases started. She didn't suddenly turn a cruel murderer at 20.

[SKL]

Add me to the list of people who seem extremely calm in a crisis.  The bigger the crisis, the more calm I seem.

 

As for the social media aspect, it seems odd to me that we're picking on a girl for saying a few things about her situation, when we live in a world that allows the media to say all kinds of nonsense, regardless of how hurtful and inaccurate it may be.  From what I read of her comments, I didn't see anything concerning about them, especially since there is no need to protect the murderer from bias at trial.  Is it really fair to demand a person be silent with all these accusations and innuendo flying about?

[SKL]

I can't imagine a kid being in more depressing circumstances than this.

[Danestress]

Historically, children have been tried and convicted in adult courts. She is 16.

 

I haven't followed the case closely, but speaking generally, not every 16 year old who commits a crime is a victim.

.

What crime are you suggesting she committed?

[unsinkable]

She is a CHILD.  She is a victim.  regardless.  she can not consent.  Jesus.

 

 

I think protecting the gift is a bunch of hogwash.

 

Jesus is gonna show up someday if you keep calling him. And then he's gonna asked you why did you bother him about a thread on the interwebs.

[redsquirrel]

As someone who worked as an advocate for child victims of sexual assault and abuse for 10 years, I promise you that it can be very easy to be fooled. I don't mean to say that this particular guy wasn't sending out obvious signals that he wasn't to be trusted, but people can be fooled. Even if you are vigilant and educated and have a good relationship with your kids you can be fooled. People who are good parents, attentive parents, loving parents can still be lied to.

 

Sexual predators are very good at what they do.

[albeto.]

Jesus is gonna show up someday if you keep calling him. And then he's gonna asked you why did you bother him about a thread on the interwebs.

 

If Jesus shows up, can someone please call me?!?

 

Anyway, what is "The Gift"? I've only heard that in reference to virginity.

[Seasider]

If Jesus shows up, can someone please call me?!?

 

Anyway, what is "The Gift"? I've only heard that in reference to virginity.

The book titled Protecting the Gift by Gavin deBecker (did I get that right?). It talks about learning to listen to your gut reactions as a self defense mechanism and a way of protecting your loved ones.

 

I only skimmed it, so I can't remember if the "gift" specifically refers to this intuition or to the innocence that can only be lost once. I'm sure others will clarify.

[unsinkable]

If Jesus shows up, can someone please call me?!?

 

Anyway, what is "The Gift"? I've only heard that in reference to virginity.

 

He's probably going to show up at a hockey game first. I'll let you know.

 

Protecting the Gift by Gavin DeBecker

 

In Protecting the Gift, Gavin de Becker shares with readers his remarkable insight into human behavior, providing them with a fascinating look at how human predators work and how they select their targets and most important, how parents can protect their children. He offers the comforting knowledge that, like every creature on earth, human beings can predict violent behavior. In fact, he says, parents are hardwired to do just that.

Protecting the Gift provides a direct look at the strategies of predators, a study of how children are victimized, and a look at why. Understanding human violence empowers parents to protect their children more effectively. De Becker asks readers at the outset, “Of all the strategies you might bring to protecting your children, could ignorance about violence possibly be an effective one?â€

 

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to work this thread around to slut-shaming.

[Alicia64]

This situation has been bothering me all day. I'm so happy that they found her, of course, but I can't see letting an "Uncle" hang out w/ my stunning daughter.

 

Biological or not, molest is part of our world. I can't understand a parent not getting that.

 

I have boys and i watch them like a hawk.

 

I agree 100 percent with you. Protecting the Gift should be required reading.

 

Alley

 

I don't mean to be off-topic at this point, but I didn't understand the reaction to my comment above. Now that I've re-read it, it does sound a little odd.

 

When I say that I watch my boys "like a hawk" I mean that I watch them carefully so that they don't become victimized. I don't mean that I think they'll act like predators.

 

Just had to clarify!

 

Back to Hannah: I'm in the camp that says "not all of the facts are out." Once the entire story comes out, then I'll form an opinion, but it seems too early at this point.

 

One of the nasty things about our media is that it's encouraged our entire culture to jump to conclusions without the facts. If everyday people want to comment without the facts. .. well, it's a free country. But the media should get the facts straight before blabbing on and on. They should, in fact, be held to a higher standard.

 

Alley

[Alicia64]

This situation has been bothering me all day. I'm so happy that they found her, of course, but I can't see letting an "Uncle" hang out w/ my stunning daughter.

 

Biological or not, molest is part of our world. I can't understand a parent not getting that.

 

I have boys and i watch them like a hawk.

 

I agree 100 percent with you. Protecting the Gift should be required reading.

 

Alley

 

I don't mean to be off-topic at this point, but I didn't understand the reaction to my comment above. Now that I've re-read it, it does sound a little odd.

 

When I say that I watch my boys "like a hawk" I mean that I watch them carefully so that they don't become victimized. I don't mean that I think they'll act like predators.

 

Just had to clarify!

 

Back to Hannah: I'm in the camp that says "not all of the facts are out." Once the entire story comes out, then I'll form an opinion, but it seems too early at this point.

 

One of the nasty things about our media is that it's encouraged our entire culture to jump to conclusions without the facts. If everyday people want to comment without the facts. .. well, it's a free country. But the media should get the facts straight before blabbing on and on. They should, in fact, be held to a higher standard.

 

Alley

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

She is a CHILD.  She is a victim.  regardless.  she can not consent.  Jesus.

 

 

I think protecting the gift is a bunch of hogwash.

 

While I agree with you (on both counts), I think it definitely matters if she was complicit in some way because it affects the treatment she receives from here on out. A purely innocent victim is going to need different treatment than will a girl who was groomed into complicity, and a girl who fully and willingly complicit is going to need vastly different treatment again. 

 

Jesus is gonna show up someday if you keep calling him. And then he's gonna asked you why did you bother him about a thread on the interwebs.

 

:lol: