Why is it acceptable that a 15 minute abdonminal unltrasound costs $800?

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

Lower costs in general: rent, wages, university fees, etc. Probably less of a tradition of massive malpractice payouts too.

 

L

 

The malpractice thing is true, for sure. They do not have a litigious society here. No one gets millions of dollars in punitive damages. I'm sure that is a factor.

 

I don't really know what salary a pediatrician makes in the US. I looked on the Internet and it said the average is $175,000 per year. A Malaysian pediatrician averages $85,000 a year (in USD). But in Malaysia, that is a ton of money! That is twice what my dh and I make combined.

 

The most expensive med school in Malaysia is about $170,000 in TOTAL. But most of the doctors at the hospital I go to were trained in the UK.

 

So less malpractice, lower tuition but lower salaries. Only a few of the factors, I imagine...

[TCB]

You are paying for/towards:

 

Training and salary of Ultrasound tech

Radiologist to read the ultrasound after your appointment

Facilities lease and insurance

Electricity

Front office staff

Records keeping and computer systems

Ultrasound machinery, upkeep, replacement, cleaning

Malpractice insurance

Janitorial services

 

It's still a crazy amount IMO. The really crazy thing is that different people pay a different price for the same thing. Around here, if it goes through your insurance company, even if you are paying everything because of a high deductable, the cost is way lower than if you are self-pay. That's what irks me, there is no REAL cost to anything, it's whatever they can get out of you.

[FaithManor]

Heather,

 

This is just some of what it costs to have a practice in my county.

 

$25.00 per hour per RN for private practice, many times the hospitals pay much more and that does not include the cost of the employee's medical insurance. Similar rates paid out to radiologists - many times more than that - etc. Custodial wages run $27,000.00 per year plus benefits, the building and licensing is astronomical, medical recording secretary - $45,000.00 in wages, receptionist $27,000 - $32,000, medical malpractice insurance for an OB runs $15,000 - 50,000.00 per month depending on how many claims have been made against the doctor (you read that right...this is per month, OB's pay an awful price for malpractice insurance in Michigan which is why there are so few to service the population...wait times can be AWFUL!!!), equipment, equipment servicing... the companies that service imaging equipment in our are bill out at $500.00 for stepping foot on the property and upwards of $200.00 per hour for labor without parts.

 

The local pediatricians pay approximately $55,000.00 a month or more to be in practice and their average take home pay for those 80-100 hour work weeks is $55,000.00. Young docs can't even move to our area...they can't afford to pay their student loans on what they can make in this state. We have all of two pediatricians in a three county radius and no cardiologists in residence. One cardiologist comes in from the city one day per week to the county hospital to see patients. Same with the orthopedic doc and the neurologist.

 

In our area, it's the dentists and orthodontists that are making the big bucks. $1000.00 for a crown, $200.00 for a filling, $165.00 for a cleaning, $1500.00 per wisdom tooth for removal, $500.00 for anesthesia for that and dental insurance doesn't cover it, etc. Reported average is $110,000.00 for dentists, $150,000.00 for orthodontists, and nearly $200,000.00 per year for oral surgeons. That is falling though...unemployment and underemployment remains high and so people are cutting back on the amount of dental work they have done. it's going to drive costs down and some of the older dentists are looking at early retirement. We'll see how that all pans out in terms of cost of service and wait times.

 

I suspect that the cost of doing business is MUCH lower in Malaysia to begin with and that malpractice payouts are controlled by the government.

 

It's entirely possible that it just simply is much cheaper to have a medical business in many other countries.

 

Faith

[SailorMom]

 

 

True. But so is the hospital where I went. How can they do an ultrasound for $70?

 

Volume :)

[chiguirre]

Just curious, what would you say is a fair price for an ultrasound?

 

In Venezuela (a craptastic third world country--I love it, but this is the truth) the ob/gyn does an ultrasound at each appointment. They do it themselves, no techs involved. An office visit with a well regarded doctor at an expensive private clinic is about $50 cash. That would be the most expensive option and prices would go down from there. There is private insurance but it only covers hospitalization and surgery. Patients pay out of pocket for private office visits and prescriptions. Medicines tend to cost about as much as the co-pay in the US although some generics are insanely cheap. Private clinics give you a detailed up front list of charges and you pay in advance. Prices for surgery tend to be about 10-20% of US prices.

 

The public health care clinic still uses Doppler devices to listen to fetal heart beat. I think they'll refer for an ultrasound and may even do it routinely. I've only ever been to the pre and post natal check ups they do for maternity leave verification, so I'm not sure exactly what they do for their regular patients. I do know that the same doctors that cover weekend/night shifts in the expensive private clinic also work at the public clinic. The public clinic doesn't charge anything and has some (not all) medicines to distribute free of charge.

[A home for their hearts]

 

3 ultrasounds in one pregnancy? With no prenatal risk factors? That is an obscene use of medical technology. None of the ultrasounds that you have mentioned are medically necessary. The only one I probably would have agreed to would have been the one to check for a heartbeat (only if there had been one before.) Unless one is truly unsure of LMP, there is no need to do an U/S to check for dates. They go by LMP. The US does not add any useful information. The anatomy check is not necessary as it does not improve outcomes. (Lots of false positives and they miss stuff too.) You are not an elderly premip so just having an US for that is not improving outcomes. And PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE don't have one to check for size. They are notoriously inaccurate and you could end up getting induced or getting a c-section unnecessarily. Shoulder dystocia does not correlate well to size of the baby. There are many things you can do during pregnancy and during labor to reduce your risk for this. If you do some research on the use of sonograms in pregnancy, you will find that, in healthy women without other risk factors (being 34 is not a risk factor like they say it is), there is no health benefit to mom or baby. Please take a look at Childbirth Connection to see what the scientific evidence really says about using sonograms.

 

If I were with this doctor, I would hightail it out of there and find someone else who would not scaremonger me in to taking unnecessary and very expensive tests.

 

 

I've always consider having 2 ultrasounds each pregnancy as normal. I've always had one at the beginning to check dates even though I've always been sure of LMP all the doctors I've ever gone to, and I've had a different doctor for each pregnancy, has always done a first trimester ultrasound to check dates. They've also always done an ultrasound around 18-20 weeks for anatomy. I've always consider this normal prenatal care. The only one that I have had so far that may have been deemed unnecessary is when they couldn't find the heartbeat and that one the doctor didn't pressure me to have she only said it was an option and I agreed to it for my own peach of mind.

 

I'm curious to know what you believe are the things I can do during pregnancy and labor to reduce my risk of shoulder dystocia? My doctor is ok with doing either a natural delivery of c-section. If the baby is huge a c-section may be our safest option. I'm leaning toward a natural delivery but I want a safe delivery too.

[Alessandra]

NY Times front page today:

 

American Way of Birth, Costliest in the World

 

Sorry I can't link, on iPad.

[VeritasMama]

We've racked up hundreds of thousands in medical bills over the years, over a dozen surgeries between all of us and several expensive stays on NICUs. Luckily, we have good insurance which is more affordable than most, and we've never been to a hospital that wasn't willing to work out a reduced rate with a reasonable payment plan.

 

So, while it is frustrating to have paid over 30,000 so far just in co-pays, not to mention much much more in premiums and deductibles, some of the treatments my children recieved were the most advanced in the world and not available anywhere else. I'm happy we are all alive and healthy, as three of my children have been deathly ill. Having insurance did save us from bankruptcy.

 

My in laws have a small farm, no insurance. My BIL was born in the 1990's with many major medical problems, over 2 months in a NICU and substantial problems to this day that still require surgery from time to time. He was able to go on disability and SSI now that he is older, but the hospitals that they dealt with when he was an infant were very helpful and worked out discounts and payment plans soy in-laws did not go bankrupt. It is possible to work with health care providers to alleviate costs.

 

For me, ultrasounds during pregnancy are considered preventative care, and preventative care is covered 100 percent. I'm not sure why ultrasounds are considered preventative while many of my labs are not, but I've never had to pay for one out of pocket.

[dirty ethel rackham]

 

I've always consider having 2 ultrasounds each pregnancy as normal. I've always had one at the beginning to check dates even though I've always been sure of LMP all the doctors I've ever gone to, and I've had a different doctor for each pregnancy, has always done a first trimester ultrasound to check dates.

 

Just because a lot of doctors do them doesn't mean that they are medically necessary. It may be a normal practice for that doctor, but there are lots of "normal" obstetric practices that have no medical benefit. If you are sure of your LMP, have regular periods and have not, in the previous 3-4 months, taken hormonal birth control, breastfed or been pregnant, ultrasound provides no benefit over LMP. There is an accuracy issue with ultrasound as well. Depending upon the skill of the technician, it can be off by +- 5 days.

 

They've also always done an ultrasound around 18-20 weeks for anatomy. I've always consider this normal prenatal care. The only one that I have had so far that may have been deemed unnecessary is when they couldn't find the heartbeat and that one the doctor didn't pressure me to have she only said it was an option and I agreed to it for my own peach of mind.

ACOG does not recommend routine ultrasound screening of pregnant women without specific indication. A majority of obstetricians who care for private-pay patients (as opposed to public aid) will recommend a 2nd trimester US in opposition to ACOG's guidelines. It is rare to find something for which they can treat, plus there is still an issue of accuracy.

 

I'm curious to know what you believe are the things I can do during pregnancy and labor to reduce my risk of shoulder dystocia? My doctor is ok with doing either a natural delivery of c-section. If the baby is huge a c-section may be our safest option. I'm leaning toward a natural delivery but I want a safe delivery too.

Look at Spinningbabies.com for what you can do to encourage the best positioning of the baby. Did you have very large babies? Moving around during labor can help the baby move into the best position and help navigate passage through the pelvis. Choosing gravity-positive pushing positions that do not put weight on your pelvis (squatting or all fours) can help increase the pelvic outlet during pushing. Side-lying only puts pressure on one side of the pelvis. However, if you have a doctor who is willing to make an uninsured patient pay for lots of unnecessary ultrasounds, this doctor does not sound like the type who will allow, let alone encourage, these more effective pushing positions. If you have a history of shoulder dystocia with normal sized babies, perhaps you have an abnormally shaped pelvis. Or, it could be an effect of a strong epidural reducing the effectiveness of contractions during pushing. I would strongly encourage interviewing another doctor to see if you can find one who is more willing to provide evidence-based care.

[QueenCat]

2. Why get an ultrasound at all? I had one during each of my first three pregnancies, but opted not to with my last because there was just no reason.

 

If I were in your situation I wouldn't be going for the expensive but unnecessary. I would only be seeking bare-bones care.

 

 

Unnecessary? Lucky for you that there wasn't anything wrong with the baby. Ultrasounds find issues that sometimes need to be dealt with in utero or very shortly after birth, that might not be diagnosed until it's too late when there wasn't an ultrasound. There are often NO SIGNS of a problem until it is TOO LATE. My son is lucky I didn't consider his ultrasounds an unnecessary procedure, especially the later one, at 32 weeks.

[QueenCat]

I don't consider an ultrasound "invasive" and I do see value in at least one in the second trimester bc we now have the opportunity to do in utereo surgery to remedy some issues, can know to have certain specialist at the birth for known problems that might need critical treatment, or other helpful things to know.

 

20 years ago? I woud have agreed ultrasounds were mostly unhelpful bc any bad news was really just an added stress that couldn't be helped. But that's not the case now. There are many things an ultrasound can discover that the parents/drs can take positive steps to make for a better outcome.

 

 

Normal ultrasounds aren't invasive, only vaginal ones are......... As to 20 years ago...... Ds had a MAJOR issue that would not have been discovered until it caused him serious, permanent and possibly fatal damage, had it not been for the ultrasound and knowing what the issue was, so it could be dealt with.

[A home for their hearts]

Just because a lot of doctors do them doesn't mean that they are medically necessary. It may be a normal practice for that doctor, but there are lots of "normal" obstetric practices that have no medical benefit. If you are sure of your LMP, have regular periods and have not, in the previous 3-4 months, taken hormonal birth control, breastfed or been pregnant, ultrasound provides no benefit over LMP. There is an accuracy issue with ultrasound as well. Depending upon the skill of the technician, it can be off by +- 5 days.

 

 

ACOG does not recommend routine ultrasound screening of pregnant women without specific indication. A majority of obstetricians who care for private-pay patients (as opposed to public aid) will recommend a 2nd trimester US in opposition to ACOG's guidelines. It is rare to find something for which they can treat, plus there is still an issue of accuracy.

 

 

Look at Spinningbabies.com for what you can do to encourage the best positioning of the baby. Did you have very large babies? Moving around during labor can help the baby move into the best position and help navigate passage through the pelvis. Choosing gravity-positive pushing positions that do not put weight on your pelvis (squatting or all fours) can help increase the pelvic outlet during pushing. Side-lying only puts pressure on one side of the pelvis. However, if you have a doctor who is willing to make an uninsured patient pay for lots of unnecessary ultrasounds, this doctor does not sound like the type who will allow, let alone encourage, these more effective pushing positions. If you have a history of shoulder dystocia with normal sized babies, perhaps you have an abnormally shaped pelvis. Or, it could be an effect of a strong epidural reducing the effectiveness of contractions during pushing. I would strongly encourage interviewing another doctor to see if you can find one who is more willing to provide evidence-based care.

 

 

My first shoulder dystocia was with my 3rd baby he weighed 9lbs 7oz,I didn't have an epidural with him either. My first two babies weighed 8lbs 9oz and 8lbs 14oz, I didn't have an epidural with those deliveries either and didn't have any trouble delivering them. The first shoulder dystocia really traumatised me so I opted for an epidural with my 4th baby. She weighed 7lbs 8oz, she was out in 2 pushes. With my fifth delivery I decided to have an epidural the baby weighed 7lbs 14oz and I had a shoulder dystocia with him. My current OB told me after she first examed me, and after I had told her about my previous shoulder dystocias that my pelvis did feel a little narrow to her but that she may be biased after what I had just told her.

[Murphy101]

Oh yes that's true. I've never once needed a vaginal ultra sound. I would think it rare to need a vag ultrasound.

 

 

Normal ultrasounds aren't invasive, only vaginal ones are......... As to 20 years ago...... Ds had a MAJOR issue that would not have been discovered until it caused him serious, permanent and possibly fatal damage, had it not been for the ultrasound and knowing what the issue was, so it could be dealt with.

[Moxie]

Oh yes that's true. I've never once needed a vaginal ultra sound. I would think it rare to need a vag ultrasound.

 

Really? That's all I've ever had in the first 8 weeks.

 

ETA: I don't consider it any more invasive than any if the other horrible things pregnant women have to deal with.

[dirty ethel rackham]

From what you describe, it appears that your shoulder dystocia wasn't caused by size of the baby. None of your babies were terribly large. It could have been a positioning problem or something in combination with something different with your pelvis. If this were me, I would look for a CNM delivering in a hospital. CNMs have supervising doctors to who they can transfer care if things move beyond their scope of practice, but they are very good at working during labor to prevent many of the things you had experienced. But that is just my $.02.

[Mommy22alyns]

I would never consider NOT having an ultrasound. To me, they're not superfluous or unnecessary. I had complete placenta previa with Sylvia that would never have been diagnosed without an ultrasound. There were absolutely NO risk factors. I wouldn't have known to take things easy. We might not have known anything until we were both bleeding out. At least one ultrasound should be done.

[QueenCat]

Really? That's all I've ever had in the first 8 weeks.

 

ETA: I don't consider it any more invasive than any if the other horrible things pregnant women have to deal with.

 

I meant it was invasive compared to a regular ultrasound :001_smile:

[Murphy101]

Nope. On the few occasions I wasted money going the first trimester, even then they didn't use a vag ultrasound. Once they suggested the just had to bc it gave a better image. I just raised my brow and informed her that for 15 years no one else had needed to do a vag ultrasound to get a clear image. And lo and behold, she managed without one too. ;)

 

 

Really? That's all I've ever had in the first 8 weeks.

 

ETA: I don't consider it any more invasive than any if the other horrible things pregnant women have to deal with.

[rjand6more]

There is a great CNM in a city 40 min away from us. She works in a health center and the cost is very low. A ultrasound tech comes to the office once a week and charges $100. The CNM delivers at a local hospital and induces all her patients(I did not like this part) so she can be there to deliver them and not incur the extra ob costs.

 

I was only told about her because my insurance took forever to get through and my CNM could not see me at All until it did. Hospital rules. I went to the health center a few times It was a good experience. I had all my prenatal labs done for about $50. I did eventually see my CNM at about 17 weeks or so.

 

Maybe there is some "hidden" health center close to you?

[A home for their hearts]

 

Maybe there is some "hidden" health center close to you?

 

Not that I know of. There is also no midwifes in my county that delivery at the one and only hospital. As I said early, I've heard of a lay midwife in our area. A mom I know used her for all of her babies and delivered each of them at home. I don't like the idea of being cared for by a lay midwife. I'm about 3 months away from my due date and I really don't feel comfortable trying to find a new provider at this time. For me to go deliver at a hospital an hour away and have to travel that far for appointments turns in to a child care nightmare for me. My dh isn't always able to get the day off for my appt. and all my relatives work full time. So that would leave me having to bring all the kids to my doctor appt. or leaving them at home by themselves for an extended period of time. Neither of which I feel comfortable doing. My current doctor is only 10 minutes away so I'm okay with leaving my dc at home by themselves for my usually quick appointments.

[Lanny]

The charge is not the only part of your story that we consider very troubling, but, that is the way they do it in the USA. The Radiologist was not in the room when the Ultrasound exam was done. That means a Technician did the examination and that the Radiologist did not run the exam.

 

When my wife was trying to get pregnant with DD, and, when she was pregnant, her OB-GYN had his own Ultrasound machine, in an examining room. I don't remember how many ultrasound exams that she had that he did. I think they were included in what she paid for an appointment with him, but I'm not positive about that.

 

GL and be careful during your pregnancy!

[Audrey]

Moving to another country is not a bad idea!

 

I have heart issues. I've been doing well for a while but recently started having problems again.

 

I called a cardiologist and got in the same day. I had an EKG, an echocardiogram, and a stress test all on the spot that day. I got the results of all those tests from the cardiologist along with copies in hand. I also got a new prescription for heart meds and got the meds themselves. I did all of this in a total of three hours.

 

It cost $300 USD total with no insurance.

 

I won't pretend to know how this country pulls it off but they do. Excellent, affordable care.

 

 

:iagree: Today is Canada Day. Reading this thread made me so grateful to be here.

[Dahliarw]

Just saw this today: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/01/health/american-way-of-birth-costliest-in-the-world.html?_r=0

 

USA the most expensive place in the world to give birth.

[A home for their hearts]

:iagree: Today is Canada Day. Reading this thread made me so grateful to be here.

 

 

Oh Canada... I keep telling my dh that we need to move to Canada. ;) He prefers to retire in Latin American. I would prefer to retire in a country that speaks English.

[Melissa in Australia]

IMO, they are able to afford it because the US has done the expensive part--researching the diseases, developing the drugs, designing the machines. I'm NOT saying healthcare in the US is perfect--I just don't think that there is any easy, quick or simple solution to our healthcare problems. We cannot look to any other country and say "let's do it just like them" because we are not just like any other country.

of course you realize that this is a myth. Australia, a country with universal heath cover, has developed many medical techniques, researched many diseases and designed many medical machines. off the top of my head some of these include how to transplant large livers, pacemakers, bionic- ear implants, spray on skin for burn victims ...... in fact the first Ultrasound machine was invented in AUSTRALIA.http://blog.australian-native.com.au/2009/09/23/australian-medical-inventions-and-firsts/ Many other countries with universal heath cover also have MEDICAL REASERCH happening. it is not something exclusive to America. We do it because the health of our CITIZENS is viewed as important, not just the health of the rich.

[Melissa in Australia]

In countries with "free" healthcare, ultrasounds aren't actually recommended, unless there are certain health issues. Some providers suggest one scan, at 18 weeks. Personally, I think it is wise to avoid prenatal ultrasounds as the effects aren't well documented.

 

I really don't get the concept that everyone somehow "deserves" an ultrasound. It is a pretty invasive procedure.

 

OP, if your ultrasounds are medically necessary, I'm sorry you don't have coverage. :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

:confused1: Maybe In some countries. I had at least 2 ultrasounds with most of my babies. My sister, who had a high risk pregnancies with many complications had many many ultrasounds. I live in a country with Universal medical coverage.

[Melissa in Australia]

The malpractice thing is true, for sure. They do not have a litigious society here. No one gets millions of dollars in punitive damages. I'm sure that is a factor.

 

I don't really know what salary a pediatrician makes in the US. I looked on the Internet and it said the average is $175,000 per year. A Malaysian pediatrician averages $85,000 a year (in USD). But in Malaysia, that is a ton of money! That is twice what my dh and I make combined.

 

The most expensive med school in Malaysia is about $170,000 in TOTAL. But most of the doctors at the hospital I go to were trained in the UK.

 

So less malpractice, lower tuition but lower salaries. Only a few of the factors, I imagine...

I thought that was interesting so I looked up how much they get paid in Australia. apparently the average wage is $166,800 for a pediatrician. I and most of the women in my area just have a GP deliver their babies. I live in a rural area where there are no pediatrician. the closest pediatrician is over 200 km away.

[Audrey]

of course you realize that this is a myth. Australia, a country with universal heath cover, has developed many medical techniques, researched many diseases and designed many medical machines. off the top of my head some of these include how to transplant large livers, pacemakers, bionic- ear implants, spray on skin for burn victims ...... in fact the first Ultrasound machine was invented in AUSTRALIA.http://blog.australian-native.com.au/2009/09/23/australian-medical-inventions-and-firsts/ Many other countries with universal heath cover also have MEDICAL REASERCH happening. it is not something exclusive to America. We do it because the health of our CITIZENS is viewed as important, not just the health of the rich.

 

 

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

And, I'd like to toss the Canadian contribution in there. This is just the tip of the iceberg; highlights of some of the most significant Canuck discoveries, inventions and research in medicine. http://www.canadianm...l-research.html

 

I happen to know that the Brits and Germans (among others) also have lists as long and longer of their nations' contributions to medicine, but I'll let those boardies speak for their own countries.

[Mrs Mungo]

In countries with "free" healthcare, ultrasounds aren't actually recommended, unless there are certain health issues. Some providers suggest one scan, at 18 weeks.

 

Not my experience. I had two babies in Germany. The OB would have done an ultrasound every time, if I had let him. That was very common, even for local women.

[Laura Corin]

In countries with "free" healthcare, ultrasounds aren't actually recommended, unless there are certain health issues.

 

The NHS offers two for normal pregnancies. I had those two with Calvin, then one more when a suspected abnormality was picked up, allowing for immediate treatment at birth. It was a false positive, but I'm not sorry I had them.

 

L

[Laura Corin]

IMO, they are able to afford it because the US has done the expensive part--researching the diseases, developing the drugs, designing the machines.

 

I refer you to the UK pharmaceutical industry. £3.9 billion on R&D in 2007.

 

L

[FaithManor]

:hurray: :hurray: :hurray:

 

And, I'd like to toss the Canadian contribution in there. This is just the tip of the iceberg; highlights of some of the most significant Canuck discoveries, inventions and research in medicine. http://www.canadianm...l-research.html

 

I happen to know that the Brits and Germans (among others) also have lists as long and longer of their nations' contributions to medicine, but I'll let those boardies speak for their own countries.

 

Here, here! I don't know where Americans get this notion that we are the only ones out there doing any important work in medicine, science, technology, etc.

 

I'd also like to make a plug for Germany's Commission E. Over the years, their body of research has helped me really take a hard look at supplements, herbals, etc. and make judicious choices.

 

Faith

[A home for their hearts]

Here, here! I don't know where Americans get this notion that we are the only ones out there doing any important work in medicine, science, technology, etc.

 

 

Faith

 

Because, unfortunately, we are taught from the time we are born that the USA is the best country in the world. Of course, when you grow up and have more experience, hopefully you learn that is far from true. The past fews years as I've learned more I've become very depressed at where my country is headed. Corporate and citizen greed has become horrible. It really sickens and saddens me to think that in the future we may be better off as a family living outside of the US. But, that's another thread entirely. ;)

[Pawz4me]

Here, here! I don't know where Americans get this notion that we are the only ones out there doing any important work in medicine, science, technology, etc.

 

Probably at least in part from all the politicians who insist that we're "exceptional" and who push the notion that we lead the world in just about everything.

 

Rest assured that many of us are very aware of what's really going on in the rest of the world.

[Wheres Toto]

Just a quick comment on the US versus rest of the world - if you look up many of the Big Pharma companies, they are not US companies. Their headquarters are often somewhere in Europe. (Merck - Germany, AstraZeneca - Sweden/UK, Roche - Swiss, Glaxo - UK, Sanofi-Aventis - France, Novartis - Switzerland, Pfizer is a US company).

 

We have been without health insurance for the past few months. We just couldn't afford the $988/month premiums for dh being self-employed. Especially because that didn't get us coverage that actually paid for anything - high deductible, co-pays, etc. My oldest ended up spending a day in the ER last week. She had a kidney infection and woke up with bad chest pains. An entire day in the ER, IV fluids, IV antibiotics, chest x-ray. We just got the bill - the full price was over $4,000. There was a "cash account discount" of over $3,000. What we actually owe is around $850.

 

We would have paid MORE for the visit if we still had insurance. There's something very wrong about that.

[goldberry]

. That's what irks me, there is no REAL cost to anything, it's whatever they can get out of you.

 

That's the root of it. I agree with the previous poster who said the very beginning of fixing the problem would be for the facility to have a set cost that everyone pays the same, insurance companies, cash, whatever. And for the costs to be clearly listed.

[goldberry]

Here, here! I don't know where Americans get this notion that we are the only ones out there doing any important work in medicine, science, technology, etc.

 

 

 

Because that is the line of propaganda put out by the drug/medical companies to justify their behavior. Enough people keep believing it that they are allowed to continue. They are appealing to pride and fear factors.