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Laura Corin
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Yep. And in that same vein, I don't think that death being the end is a cold, flat way of looking at life either. We have this one life. This one chance to learn as much as we can, experience as much as we can, help as much as we can, love as much as we can. I try to live my every single day with that in mind.

 

 

If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today.

 

That is actually a quote from a vampire TV show, but don't hold it against me. I think it accurately sums up the sentiment of many people who try to live the best life, make the brave choices, be a good person in the short time we have.

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My weird, possibly morbid, question of the day....

What does an atheist funeral look like? Is there any kind of service or anything? I've been contemplating Kay's request for no service, and I kind of find it intriguing, and a bit sad for her family and friends. I kind of like the idea of a "wake" or a party of sorts... Just rambling thoughts and questions.....

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KK... It's interesting how different experiences can be. I remember having longish philosophical discussions with my mother about the nature of God and about "his" existence. She'd talk with me about how even naming God can be limiting and using a gender was limiting.

 

If I'd been atheist or agnostic while living at home, I'm sure I'd have had to continue to attend church, but I could have questioned anything without any repercussions. I imagine that's partially why I can still have respect for their faith.

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Except in the state of Alabama, where I affirm the first question people ask you when you meet them is, "Are you for Auburn or for Alabama?"

 

(That my truthful answer remained, "Neither", sometimes killed an introduction deader than a mummy.)

 

 

 

Except in the South, where I swear the first question people ask you when you meet them is "where do you go to church?" I'm not making this up. That's why it comes up so often in my life.

 

The only stranger thing I've seen in my life is in St. Louis (where I'm from) where the first question people ask you is "What high school did you go to?" I'm not making that up either. But I digress.

 

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Another question. If you were raised with a religious belief and became atheist, how would you have liked your family, especially parents, to deal with it? What did they do right or wrong in accepting your atheism? There's a reason, just not sure the story is relevant to the answers.

 

I'll leave that to others - no one in my family has a faith.

 

 

One more. How do you prefer people refer to your atheism? Obviously, it's not a faith system. Does belief system have too many religious connotations? Is there a right word or is simply using atheist or atheism the one correct term?

 

Can you give me a context? I'm trying to work out when someone would particularly refer to it.

 

 

 

L

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I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

I don't mind...but it may mean that we have so much not in common that we won't get along or I'll distance myself from you. (This depends on HOW much you're talking about your faith. Again, my parents are ministers. Their faith is part of who they are and it's their job as well! They manage it without it bugging me. It will likely only be a problem if you're sanctimonious about it.)

 

If you're of the shoving type, I'll say things to cause offense to make it clear to back off.

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I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

Not a problem - I find faith interesting.

 

Laura

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I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

 

It depends on how they speak, is it condescending? know it all? judgmental? Personally I don't want to hear about it unless I've asked you about it. Often people think they are just "sharing" but its often perceived as shoving it down another's throat. I have a lot of various interests but I only talk about them to those in those circles, I wouldn't dare to bring up the topic to someone unless I knew they shared the interest. Religion is the same to me.

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My weird, possibly morbid, question of the day....

What does an atheist funeral look like? Is there any kind of service or anything? I've been contemplating Kay's request for no service, and I kind of find it intriguing, and a bit sad for her family and friends. I kind of like the idea of a "wake" or a party of sorts... Just rambling thoughts and questions.....

 

 

I've made my sister promise to dance on my grave. Is that morbid? Dunno. She wants the same from me.

 

My family knows I want to be buried in a swamp - there is a great place in FL near where I grew up that buries unembalmed bodies in a lovely, woody, swampy place. A graveside goodbye is more what I have in mind. A wake after that would be perfect.

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I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

Not at all. I actually think about faith, the nature of existence, the hugeness of the universe, the way it might have come to be, the way humans could best "be" toward each other a lot. I enjoy hearing what other people think on these matters, as long as they are not trying to convince me that theirs is the *one*, the *only*, the *truest* possible way to live.

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My weird, possibly morbid, question of the day....

What does an atheist funeral look like? Is there any kind of service or anything? I've been contemplating Kay's request for no service, and I kind of find it intriguing, and a bit sad for her family and friends. I kind of like the idea of a "wake" or a party of sorts... Just rambling thoughts and questions.....

 

 

My father's funeral was a celebration: stories about his life; poems that people found relevant; some music (an aria sung by a family friend).

 

Laura

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Guest inoubliable

I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

Eh. I don't mind it if it doesn't take over the rest of the conversation. Only because at that point, I can't relate and I might as well bow out of the conversation. I've been in groups before talking about the most mundane things - like spring planting - and had the entire conversation shift to great floods and god's plans. I end up bouncing out of the conversation at that point. I have no dog in that fight, kwim?

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I purposefully wore all white to my mother's funeral. Of course I was sad she was gone, but darn it, I didn't want to be sad. She had suffered so much so I tried to be as happy as I could about it.

 

 

That is sweet.

 

My grandmother requested that no one wear black to her funeral. Her favorite color was robin's egg blue so that is what most wore. I don't mind if people wear black to mine because I look good in black too.

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My weird, possibly morbid, question of the day....

What does an atheist funeral look like? Is there any kind of service or anything? I've been contemplating Kay's request for no service, and I kind of find it intriguing, and a bit sad for her family and friends. I kind of like the idea of a "wake" or a party of sorts... Just rambling thoughts and questions.....

 

 

DH and I have very specific plans laid out for our "funerals". We've requested that we be cremated and that parties be thrown. Here, as it's written down, is mine (DH's is his own and I won't post it here but it's similar):

 

"My husband, children, and executor of my estate have been told that I absolutely do NOT want a funeral, especially anything religious in nature. I have requested that whatever cannot be harvested from my body be cremated and either A) be released into the sea at **** by my husband or B) scattered in whichever woodland area decided on by my children if my husband is unavailable to carry out my wishes. Feel free to party hard afterward."

 

And in case that isn't specific enough about the "funeral", it's mentioned elsewhere in the paperwork:

 

"I request that no formal funeral or memorial service be conducted at my death. No eulogy needed. Should an informal, SECULAR gathering be put on, I hope that all participants have enormous amounts of fun making up fictitious accounts of my life to be celebrated with shots of my favorite whiskey, Glenfiddich. If no person can be induced to supply the requested hooch or to proclaim, with a straight face, that I was a respectable and fantastically successful pirate, then I hope everyone carries on uninterrupted by my demise and lives well."

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Oh my, yes. Every.single.person. It's not if you go to church, or "what's your name?", but "WHERE do you go to church?" Surprisingly, I got less of this in North Carolina than in Southern Illinois.

 

 

Yes, yes, yes. I hear this in north central IL too. I was asked today, actually. I usually just respond with "We don't." I used to elaborate, but I found it doesn't really matter. The conversation inevitably turns awkward for the asker, which is not ever my intention.

 

(Sincerely,

 

The Quiet Agnostic)

 

PS. I'd start an agnostic thread, but I doubt any of us would have any answers. :D

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I want to be turned into a diamond:

 

http://www.lifegem.com/

 

Hello, how cool would that be!

 

My dh says he wants catapulted into the ocean. :huh:

 

I want buried in my family graveyard that is now part of a national forest. I refuse to be embalmed, though. I told my family to smuggle my corpse across state lines, as needed, to make sure of that fact. Just a simple pine coffin, shroud, no weird chemicals or visitations. I used to work hospice and I've been to enough funerals, I don't want people remembering me as a corpse.

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My dh says he wants catapulted into the ocean. :huh:

 

I want buried in my family graveyard that is now part of a national forest. I refuse to be embalmed, though. I told my family to smuggle my corpse across state lines, as needed, to make sure of that fact. Just a simple pine coffin, shroud, no weird chemicals or visitations. I used to work hospice and I've been to enough funerals, I don't want people remembering me as a corpse.

 

 

My dad was buried in a willow coffin. It creaked nicely as it was carried. No embalming, into the ground.

 

L

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Laura said, "Can you give me a context? I'm trying to work out when someone would particularly refer to it."

 

I really can't right now, one of those days. It does come up in introductions and general conversation probably more because of where I live though.

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One more. How do you prefer people refer to your atheism? Obviously, it's not a faith system. Does belief system have too many religious connotations? Is there a right word or is simply using atheist or atheism the one correct term?

 

 

I think "world view" is a useful term. I think it has Christian baggage attached, which I don't fully understand because I'm Australian. But I'm in a wonky kind of place already being both an atheist and religious.

 

 

I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

Being Australian so this doesn't come up much, but I expect Christians to behave like Christians and everybody elses to behave like everybody elses. There's a woman in our homeschool group who gives everyone (even the other Christians, I think) a pamphlet and dvd about Jesus every Christmas and Easter. I haven't heard a peep out of her about religion at any other time, so I guess she considers that her religious duty done. I thank her politely, but at Easter, she didn't even sign the card which went with the dvd and that annoyed me. So, I'm going to gently tease her at Christmas by giving her a Christmas tree decoration with a bright "Happy Solstice!" greeting. :biggrinjester: :Angel_anim:

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DH and I have very specific plans laid out for our "funerals". We've requested that we be cremated and that parties be thrown. Here, as it's written down, is mine (DH's is his own and I won't post it here but it's similar):

 

"My husband, children, and executor of my estate have been told that I absolutely do NOT want a funeral, especially anything religious in nature. I have requested that whatever cannot be harvested from my body be cremated and either A) be released into the sea at **** by my husband or B) scattered in whichever woodland area decided on by my children if my husband is unavailable to carry out my wishes. Feel free to party hard afterward."

 

And in case that isn't specific enough about the "funeral", it's mentioned elsewhere in the paperwork:

 

"I request that no formal funeral or memorial service be conducted at my death. No eulogy needed. Should an informal, SECULAR gathering be put on, I hope that all participants have enormous amounts of fun making up fictitious accounts of my life to be celebrated with shots of my favorite whiskey, Glenfiddich. If no person can be induced to supply the requested hooch or to proclaim, with a straight face, that I was a respectable and fantastically successful pirate, then I hope everyone carries on uninterrupted by my demise and lives well."

 

 

Can you let us know when you die? I'd like to attend that funeral.

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My weird, possibly morbid, question of the day....

What does an atheist funeral look like? Is there any kind of service or anything? I've been contemplating Kay's request for no service, and I kind of find it intriguing, and a bit sad for her family and friends. I kind of like the idea of a "wake" or a party of sorts... Just rambling thoughts and questions.....

 

 

 

My grandparents requested no funerals either. Their ashes were cast to sea, per their wishes and we all went to have a supper later and reminisce on them.

 

I wish the same as well, except I want my ashes ploughed under in the spring, so my dust can be fertilizer for a new crop. I don't want the morbid trappings that are de rigeur at funerals. I have fought too hard against morbidity in my life to see it trotted out at my death. My life is/was not about that.

 

The only other atheist funeral I've been to was for a friend and it was more a wake than anything else I suppose, held at his former home and included a calypso band and loads and loads of Manischewitz, which made perfect sense to his living character -- he was definitely a character! :) There were no eulogies, sermons, etc. -- just a bunch of friends having the exact kind of party he would have thrown had he been alive. It was our last shingdig with him, so to speak.

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I have a question. Do you mind it if other people talk about their faith? I'm not talking about people who are trying to shove their beliefs down your throats, but people who bring up religion naturally during conversation, because it is a big part of their life.

 

 

It seems rare that anyone talks about their personal religion without having some kind of motive or judgmentalism, so I do try to sidestep those conversations. I have a friend or two with whom I can have those discussions, though, so it's not impossible.

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Can you let us know when you die? I'd like to attend that funeral.

 

 

Polish up a good story about my hijinks on the high seas and you're in!

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I like Venezuelan wakes/funerals. People stay up all night with the body which must be buried asap because they aren't embalmed. The religious folks sit around the body saying the rosary. The irreligious stand around in the vestibule drinking whiskey and telling funny stories about the deceased. There's something for everyone no matter your personal beliefs. The deceased's beliefs don't really matter (as long as you're some variety of Catholic from the "opus dei" variety all the way to the "I think this is a crock, but it's our crock" variety). I don't think you could have one of these shindigs in Houston because it would break a whole bunch of city ordinances.

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I don't know about a story but I know quite a bit about maritime law thanks to the 'Trial of Captain Hook'. Does that count?

 

 

Absolutely!

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Why are so many atheists so militant about it? Why can't you just inwardly roll your eyes at what religious folks believe but keep your opinions about it to yourself?

 

 

 

You know what religious people believe because they talk about it. Why should non religious people be quiet and understated?

 

IMObservation, it is only religious folks (primarily Christian) who don't see the blatant Christian overculture in the US. It is rampant.

 

In group last night, a client was enthusiastically sharing about her Native American inspired spirituality. ONLY the Christians were upset and twitchy.

 

I personally don't believe in a deity but I do believe is some ideas probably best described as new age.

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I've been to plenty of atheist funerals. People made speeches, sharing memories about the deceased, after which music was played. Then, the actual burial or cremation happened.

 

 

That's what I want my funeral to be like. I understand that funerals are for the living, so I won't ask that I not have one. Just that it not be religious. A service doesn't need to be in a church, nor does there need to be a religious leader at the funeral home. Of course, I won't know what happens, so I just have to trust that my family will honor my wishes.

 

My mother, though not an atheist, wasn't religious. She was somewhat agnostic, and kind of believed in an after-life. Her service was at the funeral home. Friends and family attended. We talked about her life, several people gave speeches about her, they played Elvis and Frank Sinatra music (2 of her favorites), and then family went to the cemetery for her burial. Afterwards there was a covered dish gathering at my house. It was very much like a religious funeral minus anything religious.

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I want to be turned into a diamond:

 

http://www.lifegem.com/

 

Hello, how cool would that be!

 

 

My daughter wants to do this to me! I told her I think it would be awesome, but really, I don't care what they do with me. I'll be dead.

 

I do prefer to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the sea, and for there to be much partying and merriment in celebration after the fact. But really, whatever they want will be fine.

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Thank you, yes, I was thinking of a teen still at home. I have some relatives that would make it an issue of it for adults too though.

 

Thank you as to the other. I lived in the south for a few years. We really did get the questions "What church do you go to?" as a way of introduction a few times. Not "do you" but "what church".

 

 

Oops. EL, I think I see what you are asking now.

 

I guess I would say, if I had a teen that turned out to have philosophies very different from mine, that there's no such thing as thought control.

 

One can try to make a teen sit in church, or listen to a lecture about h*llfire and dam*ation, or memorize the bible, but one cannot make him believe something he does not believe. I think an open dialogue would be healthier for a parent/child relationship... even if it's about something that is scary to the parent, like disbelief ... (or the possibility of my girls having boyfriends. Eeek. breathe and talk. breathe and talk.) and it's probably more likely to leave a kid with an open mind in the end.

 

I think if my parents or anyone else were making an issue out of it for my kids, that's what I would tell them. That forcing anything like that on someone would most likely be counterproductive to their aim anyway, and keeping at it would definitely earn them a time out of my life.

 

As to the second part, I would answer "I'm not religious," too.

 

((Best to you.))

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Many atheists are not militant about it. Very few people know I'm an atheist. I rarely talk about it. You think they are because those are the ones you hear about. You don't hear about me. KWIM?

 

 

 

I'm usually only militant when among other militant atheists. It's an outlet. We can say what we want and it feels good to release what we often hold in. I don't think most religous people are aware of how much and how often we atheists bite our tongues.

 

I will get militant among religious people when pushed, but I'm not often pushed. I don't usually cross paths with extremely religious people IRL. We don't have much in common.

 

As an aside, there's no rational way to prove a negative (in general). That's why the burden of proof must always be on those who are making the positive assertion.

 

 

I kept trying to like this post, but got an error message each time, so..."Like".

 

I believe in love. Love for myself and love for others.

Honestly, I really don't want to hear someone say "I'll pray for you." It has no meaning to me,(and I do understand you intend it to be taken in a kind way). I'd rather you say something along the lines of "I wish you the best." or "What can I do to help?" The act of praying to me says that you care about making yourself look good, and it has no real affect on the outcome (my own personal opinion) of a situation.

I do believe that nature is amazing, and I love a great sunset! But I really can see the science of it all.

I believe that people, those here on Earth, have a wonderful ability to love, support and care for each other. In my eyes, that's enough. I don't need an imaginary friend to hold my hand or guide me. I am a strong human being that can make my own decisions... sometimes with the help of some really great friends!

 

 

:001_wub:

 

Another question. If you were raised with a religious belief and became atheist, how would you have liked your family, especially parents, to deal with it? What did they do right or wrong in accepting your atheism? There's a reason, just not sure the story is relevant to the answers.

 

 

Dh and I are fortunate in that we both came from loosely religious families. I was raised a 1960's "Kennedy Catholic" in an Irish-Italian ethnic family. Our Catholicism was mostly cultural. He was raised in a liberal United Methodist but not really church-going or bible-reading family.

 

Dh's Baptist grandmother who lived to be 103, was never told about our atheism. There was no need for her to know. She's probably the only one who would be upset by it. No one else in either my or his family cares what others believe. It's all live-and-let-live.

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I've got an anonymous question via PM to post here for answers.

 

"Is an atheist born or made?"

 

 

Personally I think atheists are born. This is coming from someone who doesn't believe in a soul or an auto-religion within, kwim? If you don't subscribe to that belief, then it doesn't stand to reason that an infant can be born believing in anything. I think some atheists are made after they've experienced a time of religion, too. So... I was born an atheist, but born into a Catholic family. So I ended up an ex-Catholic/atheist after a time period in that faith.

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Greta Christina explains it. Be aware that there is much cussing. If you're willing to read all the way, you'll even see why she believes anger is necessary.

 

Not all atheists agree with her. I do.

 

 

Thanks for posting this. I agree with much of what she has to say, but I'm just not that angry about it. Does that make me not a true atheist? :lol:

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By the way, has anyone watched Zeitgeist? 1/3 of it is about religion and how most of the baseline beliefs of most of the major religions are based on the same things (a lot of astronomy and other life cycles), and how none of it is original. Not even the story of the virgin birth of the son who is supposed to be the savior, dies, rises again and saves the universe. All of it pre-dates Christ, for sure, and there are countless examples (I have not verified all of it, but did research a lot to see if it was true. It was.).

 

I highly recommend it. You can see it for free on YouTube. It's interesting.

 

(Disclaimer: I remember another part was about 9/11 is an inside job, and I have no patience for that. It was still an hour or so of entertainment for me.)

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Hm...interesting question.

 

I think they are born too.

 

I can't imagine anything short of something really outrageous making me believe differently.

 

 

I think they're made. I was raised with religion, and at one time in my life strongly believed in a "higher power", even if I always questioned it and have never been particularly religious, even when going to mass every week.

 

Years of study and discernment have led me to the place I am now. I think that it never even occurs to some people to question what they've been taught, but if they gave it some reflection they may find that they could no longer blindly believe, either. I just don't think it's that it's really important to most people. They say the prayers, sit, stand, kneel, face the right way in the afternoon, give up meat on Fridays, master the rituals, read the holy texts, attend the churches and mosques and temples and ashrams....because that's what they've always done. That's part of what bothers me most about organized religion. In many cases, there isn't any thought or intention behind it, really. It's just what you do, because that's what you've always done and what's expected.

 

Clearly, the above doesn't apply to everyone. It's just my general observation.

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I have a follow-up to being born vs made:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1136482/Brains-hardwired-believe-God-imaginary-friends.html

 

Thoughts? I don't think it necessarily changes whether someone would be an Atheist or not since it also includes 'imaginary friends' but, I'm just wondering whether any Atheists would, based on studies like these, consider that it might be more of a 'made' than born?

 

I actually read those articles a while ago and didn't think of them in this context until seeing that question above. Hope I didn't offend :).

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I've got an anonymous question via PM to post here for answers.

 

"Is an atheist born or made?"

 

 

Personally I think atheists are born. This is coming from someone who doesn't believe in a soul or an auto-religion within, kwim? If you don't subscribe to that belief, then it doesn't stand to reason that an infant can be born believing in anything. I think some atheists are made after they've experienced a time of religion, too. So... I was born an atheist, but born into a Catholic family. So I ended up an ex-Catholic/atheist after a time period in that faith.

 

 

I think all people come to an understanding of the world based on their culture, education and environment. If I had been raised in Ancient Greece, I might have found just the right god to believe in or I might have had a lot of work to come to a more scientific understanding of the universe. What about people in societies where religion is a stronger part of their culture and identity?

 

I don't know. With my three kids, one was born Buddhist and one gradually became more of a secular humanist. The third was born religious. She is probably destined to join some form of Orthodox religious group. She really has strong feeling about religion and leans toward Christianity. I respect my kids as people with the right to grow and follow the path that is right for them and gives them comfort.

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I think an atheist can be born or made.

 

I used to have genuine belief. I came to a point of disbelief. Not in anger, not in pain; just disbelief. I've read the bible, I've studied the history of the church and I just don't find truth in it as literal fact.

 

I also know people who are just born skeptics. My older son is definitely in that category.

 

 

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I have a follow-up to being born vs made:

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1211511/Why-born-believe-God-Its-wired-brain-says-psychologist.html

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1136482/Brains-hardwired-believe-God-imaginary-friends.html

 

Thoughts? I don't think it necessarily changes whether someone would be an Atheist or not since it also includes 'imaginary friends' but, I'm just wondering whether any Atheists would, based on studies like these, consider that it might be more of a 'made' than born?

 

I actually read those articles a while ago and didn't think of them in this context until seeing that question above. Hope I didn't offend :).

 

 

 

My older son was all of three when I explained the basic precepts of Christianity as I had learned them as a child. He looked at me and said firmly, slowly and carefully: "that CANNOT POSSIBLY be true." We attended a church regularly and he had never been pushed towards or away from belief.

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How do you as an atheist explain or account for various theist beliefs throughout history? Do you think religious beliefs were formed to explain natural things? Do you foresee a future where all religious beliefs are replaced by science?

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How do you as an atheist explain or account for various theist beliefs throughout history? Do you think religious beliefs were formed to explain natural things? Do you foresee a future where all religious beliefs are replaced by science?

 

 

I think people have a natural desire to explain where we came from, why we're here and where we are going. If you don't know what the wind is or why it blows, the hand of an unseen force is as plausible an explanation as any.

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How do you as an atheist explain or account for various theist beliefs throughout history?

 

Gods can be useful.

 

 

Do you think religious beliefs were formed to explain natural things?

 

Probably. They are a good way of helping people remember information they couldn't either remember if it was passed on in a dry, clinical way or understand properly but need to use. They are an easy way to formulate identity too and provide purpose and direction.

 

Do you foresee a future where all religious beliefs are replaced by science?

 

 

Nup. People who like their religious beliefs will find a way to keep them. Plenty have religious beliefs that don't conflict with science.

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I've got an anonymous question via PM to post here for answers.

 

"Is an atheist born or made?"

 

I'm not an atheist, but someone very close to me recently confided to me that they are. This person is a made atheist. Said person was a very strong believer at one point but began to see inconsistencies. They found that the more they searched, the less sense Christianity made to them.

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