Indoor or outdoor cat??

[Heather in Neverland]

We got a new kitty today. She is about 10 weeks old. She is a stray, born to a stray. My friend found the mother stray after she was already pregnant. The kitten has been a combo indoor/outdoor cat for the 10 weeks it has been alive.

 

We have owned several cats but they have always been indoor only cats.

 

What are the pros and cons of indoor vs. outdoor cats? She received her first vax today as well as a dewormer shot. She will be spayed as soon as she is old enough.

 

It will be tough to keep her indoors only since it is so hot here and we always have our windows and doors open (no screens here!). But I worry that being an outdoor cat, she might get ticks or fleas, etc.

 

Thoughts?

[creekland]

Our cats have always been indoor outdoor cats and they live very happy lives that way. They tend to want to be in during the very cold and very hot as well as whenever they want a "good" nap. Then they want to be out to roam.

 

Pros:

 

- FAR less damage to your house. Most outdoor kitties prefer sharpening their claws and playing with things outside.

- Less kitty litter needed. Most will prefer the great outdoors.

- Less field mice and other small things they hunt.

- Happy kitties.

 

Cons:

- Definitely keep them on flea treatment (Frontline Plus, Advocate - we alternate. Advocate has a different American name, but I can't remember it right now). Also keep their vaccs up.

- Lower life expectancy IF you live in an area with dangers like cars or coyotes. We don't have a problem with either, but did lose one to farm equipment and another to some sort of fight. (This is over 18 years - lost 2 cats due to these things.)

[Heather in Neverland]

Ok, sorry if this sounds silly but... How does the outdoor thing work? Do you just open the door and let them come and go as they please? Do they "ask" to go out, like dogs do? Do they come back when you call (I have a hard time picturing this in a cat!), what if it is time for bed and you need to lock up and they aren't back yet?

 

I've heard they know how to get back to their home but since I have never done this with a cat, I'm not sure how it works out in real life.

[creekland]

Ok, sorry if this sounds silly but... How does the outdoor thing work? Do you just open the door and let them come and go as they please? Do they "ask" to go out, like dogs do? Do they come back when you call (I have a hard time picturing this in a cat!), what if it is time for bed and you need to lock up and they aren't back yet?

 

I've heard they know how to get back to their home but since I have never done this with a cat, I'm not sure how it works out in real life.

 

For us, yes, we let them out when they ask (they do ask - each will have their own style, but they'll train you). They seldom come when called (my mom's cat did though), but they'll want in at certain, predictable times. Mine all come in for cat food (if you put that outside, you're calling every critter for miles around). They also come in when the weather is less than they desire. Otherwise, they can choose in or out for day or night because we don't have night predators. They often want out overnight due to better hunting opportunities. Our oldest cat wants in overnight because she sleeps with me. ;) If you're not around when they want in, they'll sit and wait and come running when they see you.

 

If you want them in overnight, make sure you get them before dusk. Food works... make sure they are hungry then. Once dusk hits often nature takes over and they decide they want to hunt... but again, all cats are different to a degree.

 

For us, those who stay out at night are waiting for me to open the door in the morning. Those who stay in at night are waiting for me to open the door in the morning. The only difference is the direction the cats are going. We often refer to it as a "kitty exchange."

[Pawz4me]

In general I'm a huge proponent of indoor-only cats. Much safer for the cat, much safer for the local bird population. But I do know there are areas where it's relatively safe to let cats outside. And there's no denying that most cats thrive on some outside time. I do let mine go outside in our securely fenced back yard, but only for short periods of time and when I'm out with them.

 

For a cat that's allowed to roam, you'll want to make sure to keep up-to-date on all vaccines recommended by your vet and use some type of flea/tick preventative. And possibly give monthly heartworm preventative, depending on what your vet recommends.

 

I've never had an inside only cat (of my own or a foster) who did anything more than very minor damage to anything in the house, so IME I'd say it's significantly more expensive to maintain an inside/outside cat than one who stays inside. Outside cats require more vaccinations, more monthly preventatives (flea/tick and possibly heartworm) and likely over the lifetime of the cat more trips to the vet for accidents/injuries.

 

At ten weeks old your kitten is plenty old enough to be spayed. It's done routinely by eight weeks of age in shelter kittens. If for whatever reason you and your vet choose to delay, I recommend keeping kitten inside until she's spayed, or only allowing outside time in a securely fenced area where you can supervise. She can come into heat and get pregnant so easily. Please don't risk contributing to overpopulation.

[Gwenny]

With an outdoor cat, you also have the risk of someone thinking your cat is a stray and adopting it. Especially if it won't keep a collar on. I have an indoor only cat, and I do feel bad about denying it outdoor freedom, but because it looks like an expensive cat (imagine an all-white maine coone), I'm afraid of someone taking him. Several friends have warned me that it's not uncommon for cats to be "adopted" when they aren't really strays.

[Cindy in FL.]

Ours is indoors except when he escapes. Our house fronts onto a busy street and we have coyotes and other predators around so I don't like him to be outside. When he does escape, I leave the screen door open so that he can come onto the porch. Then he waits at the sliding glass door to be let in. I prefer indoor cats, though I sometimes feel badly about him not getting as much time in the great outdoors as he would like. In our situation it's just safer for him to be inside. If we didn't have the potential dangers, I'd let him be indoor/outdoor.

[jentancalann]

I've always had indoor/outdoor cats until our last one was attacked by dogs and killed immediately. Because of this, our current cat is indoor only. She used a scratching post from early on (we got her at about 11 weeks) and I can honestly say that she hasn't done any damage to our home- the kids are way harder on it! The litter box stays in the basement which she accesses through a cat door. We don't have screen doors either, and she does try to get out every now and then, but she is pretty timid about it so it is easy to pick her up and put her back inside. As far as indoor/outdoor cats go, they just kind of come and go as they please. When you open a door they may go out and vice versa. If I remember correctly, I have had some that would sit at the door when they were ready to go out. Growing up, I would call my cat before bed and she'd come in. After the experience we had with our last one, it just isn't worth the chance to let our current cat outside.

[Ellie]

Ok, sorry if this sounds silly but... How does the outdoor thing work? Do you just open the door and let them come and go as they please? Do they "ask" to go out, like dogs do? Do they come back when you call (I have a hard time picturing this in a cat!), what if it is time for bed and you need to lock up and they aren't back yet?

 

A day in the life of a cat owner:

 

Let cat in.

 

Let cat out.

 

Let cat in.

 

Let cat out.

 

Repeat. :D

 

The best thing we ever did when we were in California was put in a pet door so the kitties could do their own thing. Sadly, it's too hot here in Central Texas to do that, not to mention the fact that we could get some other uninvited visitors like lizards and opossums, lol.

 

I've heard they know how to get back to their home but since I have never done this with a cat, I'm not sure how it works out in real life.

 

 

Some cats don't leave their yards. Really. The ones who do like to visit friends in the neighborhood know how to get home. Mostly.

[Pippen]

Mine was a kitten out of a feral mama and spent the first two years indoors. He was very feisty in temperament and prone to weight problems and boredom, even though we gave him lots of attention and playtime. He was doing damage--play attacking everything that moved including legs, clawing furniture, and leaping up and attacking spots in the walls (seriously bad news for the drywall).

 

The vet suggested building an outdoor enclosure and at that point I decided what the heck and started letting him outdoors. He has been a MUCH happier and less aggressive cat and I haven't looked back. I started out by letting him out only when we were supervising and then added a morning period during low traffic (which in my neighborhood is from 4am to 6:30 am. Eventually I added a late evening time as well, then eventually let him go out inbetween when he asked. I was glad we established morning and evening times as he does check in, even if he isn't ready to come back in. At first I never left him out if we weren't home but now I will for shorter periods--never long periods or when we're out of town.

 

He does come when called most of the time, and if he doesn't I sweeten the offer with a treat. Though once I yelled "Come and get a kitten treat!" and a lovely yellow cat (not mine) showed up and started rubbing my legs. Apparently those are the magic words in my neighborhood.

 

I know there are increased risks to having an outdoor cat, but I feel like he's living a much happier life and accept the fact that it may be a shorter life. We live in town and he's made it to age seven--far longer than any pet we owned when I was a girl growing up in the country. It has meant some additional vaccinations, Revolution for flea control, and one additional vet trip for an eye infection he picked up from another cat. It's also hard on him when we're out of town for vacations--he must be housebound then since he's skittish with pet sitters and I don't trust that he'd come back inside when they call him.

[Heather in Neverland]

I actually prefer indoor cats because I don't want to worry about what might happen to her while she is out. I just don't know how I am going to keep this one indoors in our current living situation. All of our doors and windows literally hang wide open with no screens all day long for the breeze. Otherwise the heat is intolerable.

 

I will definitely keep up with her vaccines, etc. We are meticulous about those things. We live in the city so no coyotes or anything like that. But there are lots of stray dogs here. Now I'm going to worry. :(

[Heather in Neverland]

 

 

At ten weeks old your kitten is plenty old enough to be spayed. It's done routinely by eight weeks of age in shelter kittens. If for whatever reason you and your vet choose to delay, I recommend keeping kitten inside until she's spayed, or only allowing outside time in a securely fenced area where you can supervise. She can come into heat and get pregnant so easily. Please don't risk contributing to overpopulation.

 

 

Really? We have never adopted a kitten this young before. In the past, we had shelter kitties that were 6 months or older and already spayed. Today the vet told me that he would spay our new kitty when she is 4 months old. I didn't know it was recommended for younger than that.

 

 

[Jeannie in NJ]

we have 8 cats. Four of them have no interest in going outside. One of them spends all her time, except at night , outside. She is miserable inside and makes it miserable for all of us so she is outside . The remaining 3 like to come in and out all day, they only spend short amount of times outside. I put Advantage on them for flea control and my vet just gave me some wipes (like baby wipes) for ticks. Prior to that Sagwa, our mostly outside cat, was coming back in every night with 3 to 6 ticks. I have been using the wipes for about 2 weeks and the only time she has had a tick was once when it was raining all day and washed off the stuff from the wipe. The wipes are soaked in lemongrass, cinnamon and sesame oil. My cats will come when called most of the time. Sagwa always comes in when I call her before bedtime at night. Yesterday, my cat Blackie wanted out, he raced around the house once and then wanted back in. Don't know what that was about.

[Cricket]

Most nights our cat is inside. Since we are in AZ, sometimes she likes to go out at night since it is so hot during the day in the summer. As far as asking to go out, yes, she does ask. She will look me in the eye and say, "Mew?" If we are sleeping, she will quickly skip across the bed by our feet and say, "Brrrrrritttt!"

 

And speaking of cats, has anyone seen these photos making the rounds? Cat beards

[milovany]

Pippen wrote my post for me (thanks, Pippen!). Our situation has been almost exactly the same. Our cat is SO much happier now that she can go in and out. We're convinced she thinks we bought this property just for her. She was mean and feisty before, always trying to get out, and now (while she still has moments -- especially outside) we can pet her when she's inside and she'll lay on my lap for several hours at night, purring and loving to be touched/petted. Yes, her life might be shorter, but it's worth it in our opinions. I imagine she finds it worth it, too.

 

Sometimes I wonder about how far she goes. We live on a 1/2 mile long dead end road that's made up of 2-acre parcels, and we've seen her three or four houses down before. So, she wanders. She comes home almost every night, although sometimes in the summer, we don't see her until morning. I've mentioned her to the neighbors that I've talked with, so they know she's not a stray.

[lailasmum]

Indoor cats aren't too common here. My brother's flatmates have two indoor cats but they are the only two people who I have ever known to have them. That works well where they live as it's in the middle of a city on a very busy road and the cats were bought back with them from the USA at huge expense. Unfortunately said cats hate each other now and occupy seperate floors of the house.

 

We have always had outdoor cats. We have a cat flap and our cat comes and goes as he pleases but he mostly does 1 hr wandering about per day and 23 hrs sleeping in various places in our house or greenhouse. We use frontline to deal with fleas and ticks. Our cat rarely hunts but he has some vision and hearing problems and isn't very coordinated. It's not hard to have an outdoor cat.

[stephanier.1765]

Our indoor cat is so frustrated with not being allowed outdoors. Has anyone found it helpful to take them out on a leash or let them explore while attached to a lead? Or does it just make the desire to go outdoors even worse?

[Pawz4me]

Our indoor cat is so frustrated with not being allowed outdoors. Has anyone found it helpful to take them out on a leash or let them explore while attached to a lead? Or does it just make the desire to go outdoors even worse?

 

 

IME once you let a cat out they will want to go out again even more. We have an RV, and in our travels we've encountered quite a lot of people who travel with cats and have taught them to walk on leash. It's a bit of a different mindset than with dogs, though! I've also seen quite a few cats who seem very content to be tied out on long leads. The trick would be finding a secure, well-fitting harness, I think. And there are alternatives to using a leash or lead. You can check out products like this or this. Amazon carries some of the same/similar products and they may be cheaper there.

[DianeW88]

Uh...you'll soon find out that it's not really your choice. It's up to the cat. She'll let you know which type of cat she wants to be. Trust me. :D

[stephanier.1765]

 

IME once you let a cat out they will want to go out again even more.

 

Thanks, I was afraid of that. DH isn't on board with getting a kitty playpen (the mesh popup) but after watching "My Cat from Hell" he might be on board for a catio. Whatever we are going to do, we need to do it soon because the poor kitty is just miserable.

[Audrey]

I say that any pros to letting a cat go outdoors are negated by the fact that outdoor cats have significantly shorter life expectancies than indoor only cats. Also, I really, really don't want to scrape up Fluffy from the road.

 

Caveat: I say that and we also have barn cats, which are outdoor only cats, but they are not pets and I don't think of them as such. Pet cats stay indoors because, as I said, I really, really don't want to scrape them off the road.

 

Also, spay and neuter! You'll be glad you did!

[Word Nerd]

Ours started out as indoor-only cats and are now indoor/outdoor cats. We had ours spayed and neutered (a boy and a girl from same litter) closer to 5 months old. They "talk" to us to let us know they want out: "Look at me! I'm over here by the door! Come on, people! I'm waiting."

 

A cat beard is on my summer bucket list. It's so silly but it makes me laugh.

[Jennay]

^{The cat would probably vote to be able to go outside but it is much safer for them to be inside. Some can be persuaded to stay in, some can't :) We have a huge screened in porch and one of our cats spends most of his time out there watching birds, chipmunks, & rabbits. He gets cranky when it's too hot or too cold to stay out there for long. And there's a squirrel that yells at him - he comes slinking into the house - tail between his legs.}

[Ecclecticmum]

No way I'd let them out here.

 

We are hoping to have the cat run & outdoor play area up soon though. I already have the plans drawn up as to where the runs will lead and the schematics to the play area.

 

Our cats are Birmans...and I've seen the porcupine/dog next door, has burrs and mattes everywhere...owner brushes twice daily, dog goes right out, rolls on grass..instant matting & lots of prickly grass weeds. From dog to porcupine in 1.5 seconds.

 

Secondly, cats get up to mischief. My outdoor cats got into so much trouble, one always going where it didn't belong (like down a chimney into a boarded up fireplace), another was always getting into fights with other cats (requiring constant care & vet fees), its just too much trouble.

 

Our lovely, white fluffies are very happy, and will be happier indeed once we install the cat run. As long as they have my bed to lay in of a morning, and some sun to lay in in the afternoon, plus food, they are in heaven.

 

We do "have" outdoor cats though, but they aren't ours. They are strays that seem to have taken a liking to me, no matter how much I tell them to shoo. They eat any of the dog food the dogs leave (saves the snakes eating it rofl). The cat (1st one) came to me a couple of months back, scrawny, mewing, and saggy. It ate the dogs food that was left out, and came near me, purring and acting real friendly, after this long I've figured out it was probably dumped, its too kind/tame to have been born a stray. I held still and let it get close because the sagginess worried me, after a few minutes, I finally managed to pet it under its belly, and found distended teats. The tiny little scrap was barely getting out of kitten stage itself (it had that new to teenage years awkwardness), and had babies! After a few nights, I managed to catch sight of the babies...3 little tiny balls of fluff following "mom" around. I think they now live under our house, one of our dogs chased one of the kittens up a tree a few weeks back. I don't encourage them, but they hang around and are persistant (I showered one of them with my bottle of water, took forever before it got the point and ran off....only to return a minute later and start purring and rubbing itself against the bottom of my foot). I don't want to be mean, but I just don't want them rubbing near me, they could have diseases they could give to my cats. I even used my foot to firmly nudge it away, still it returned and kept nudging me back *sigh*. A few nights ago, the mother turned up with a hank of hair missing on her hindquarters and a cut/slash. I've had to stay up every night to wait for her and keep an eye on the darn thing. Luckily the cut healed up fine, nice pink flesh healing together with no puckering or swelling.

 

We also have farmers who protect their livestock, loose dogs (we are in farmland), snakes galore, gazillions of foxes, and a heap more.

 

So first I say PLEASE get the cat desexed (whether its indoors or outdoors). Secondly, get the cat a collar with bell if its going to be outside to warn the birds away. Third, really have a think what you would do if the cat came back with bites/scratches/slashes or even didn't return for dinner one night etc. These cats aren't even mine, but I sit there worrying if I don't catch sight of the ginger kitten every now and again. There can also be problems with neighbours, perhaps one of your neighbours owns a sandpit, to cats thats like one big litterbox. Having your cat roam free (no matter that it was a stray before, its now your responsibility) can cause lots of dramas.

 

The stray cats that currently hang round here, I've been looking into the charity/free desexing offers, and trying to get the kittens (whom are terrified of humans) to get used to me. I'm hoping if all turns out well, I can get them use to me enough that I can put them in carriers and take them to the vets for desexing. Even if they aren't mine, we have a lot of birds in our yard, and there is obviously an undesexed male cat around somewhere for that female to be pregnant, that I don't suddenly want there to be 20 cats killing the wildlife and spazzing round in my acreage.

[Lisbeth]

Indoor only. Outdoor cats are up against forces in the modern world they can't possibly handle. I have relatives who are heartbroken constantly by their newest splattered cat, while my spoiled and happy indoor cats live long, cozy lives. I don't know why those relatives never put cause and effect together. It is frustrating to remain civil with them over it.

[fourcatmom]

My four cats have been indoor/outdoor cats but for the past three years have been indoor only. One was a stray born from a stray and can I just say that he is the most loveable, big baby that we have. You would never know he wasn't raised by humans or inside a house until we took him home. We have recently started letting them out on our patio which is secure and they do enjoy being in the sun but usually come back in within 15 minutes on their own. They like being inside and have adjusted fine to this schedule. They are cleaner ( I hated having to deal with fleas) and they are safer. We live in a little over 1,000 sq ft with four of them and they all do fine.

 

The only thing they ruined was the couch but I didn't stop them initially and now it's too late. I think if you train them where to scratch you should be fine.

[FriedClams]

Indoor if you live near anyone. I'm so sick of my neighbors cats spraying in my flower beds. It smells nasty.

 

If you're on a farm - outdoors is great.

[Heather in Neverland]

Well, I am pretty convinced to keep her indoors... Which is ok with me since it is the only way I know anyways! She is so sweet. I would hate it if something happened to her.

 

We named her Serena because we are HUGE tennis fans. :)

 

We are all in the throes of kitten love and this is going to be one spoiled cat!

[Heather in Neverland]

I say that any pros to letting a cat go outdoors are negated by the fact that outdoor cats have significantly shorter life expectancies than indoor only cats. Also, I really, really don't want to scrape up Fluffy from the road.

 

Caveat: I say that and we also have barn cats, which are outdoor only cats, but they are not pets and I don't think of them as such. Pet cats stay indoors because, as I said, I really, really don't want to scrape them off the road.

 

Also, spay and neuter! You'll be glad you did!

 

We have always spayed our cats (we always have females) but the cats we had before were older. This one is 10 weeks old and I am getting conflicting advice on the best time to spay her. The vet here says at least 16 weeks but the ASPCA website says now is OK.

 

Thoughts?

[Pawz4me]

I think if you're going to keep her inside only (and you feel confident she won't slip out the door) then there's probably little to no risk in following your vet's advice and waiting a few more weeks. If you have any inkling that you'll let her go out or that she might be able to slip out, find a vet who will spay her now. As you know from reading the ASPCA's article, both the American Veterinary Medical Association and the American Animal Hospital Association are in favor of pediatric spaying and neutering.

[briansmama]

We adopted a cat from the shelter about 6 months ago (he came neutered and 5yrs old). He is the most affectionate, easy-going cat I've ever owned in my life. He follows me around like our dog does. He lost his eye in the shelter due to an infection that his previous owners couldn't keep up with, so when we got him we thought for sure he would be an indoor-only guy.

 

BUT- after a few weeks he would ask to go outside, usually at dusk. At first, we wouldn't let him, but then he did get out accidentally and he sat on our fence. He now goes out every-other-night at dusk and "perimeter guards" our property. He doesn't come in until morning. He then cuddles and sleeps all day.

 

At first we didn't know what he did out there, but now, after finding 3 dead mice around our property, we know he's hunting.

 

He is such a happy guy, I can't imagine not allowing him to do his hunting thing. He doesn't seem to ever leave our property. Because we love him so much we do occasionally worry that he could get hurt out there by a coyote, but when I think of making him stay in all the time when he really loves hunting, I just know I can't do that.

 

I think having outdoor time really enhances his quality of life, even if that means it may be shortened.

[Audrey]

We have always spayed our cats (we always have females) but the cats we had before were older. This one is 10 weeks old and I am getting conflicting advice on the best time to spay her. The vet here says at least 16 weeks but the ASPCA website says now is OK.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

I would say wait at least until it is 4 months old. Try to get it done in the 4-6 month window. They can have their first heat as early as 5-6 months old.

[Allearia]

 

 

We have always spayed our cats (we always have females) but the cats we had before were older. This one is 10 weeks old and I am getting conflicting advice on the best time to spay her. The vet here says at least 16 weeks but the ASPCA website says now is OK.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

We are currently fostering a mom and four kittens, and the day they are eight weeks old and at least two pounds they are fixed. It seems way too young to me, but I understand that they really want to make sure they are neutered before adoption. If it were up to me I would probably wait until 16 weeks, but I think anywhere in that range is okay.

[ApronMama]

We've always had indoor/outdoor cats. They come running home at the sound of the can opener, as they assume the only cans worth opening contain tuna. Otherwise, they pretty much determine their own schedule for going in and out, often it changes with the season. We are currently catless, DH prefers it that way 😔

[Wildcat]

we have 8 cats. Four of them have no interest in going outside. One of them spends all her time, except at night , outside. She is miserable inside and makes it miserable for all of us so she is outside . The remaining 3 like to come in and out all day, they only spend short amount of times outside. I put Advantage on them for flea control and my vet just gave me some wipes (like baby wipes) for ticks. Prior to that Sagwa, our mostly outside cat, was coming back in every night with 3 to 6 ticks. I have been using the wipes for about 2 weeks and the only time she has had a tick was once when it was raining all day and washed off the stuff from the wipe. The wipes are soaked in lemongrass, cinnamon and sesame oil. My cats will come when called most of the time. Sagwa always comes in when I call her before bedtime at night. Yesterday, my cat Blackie wanted out, he raced around the house once and then wanted back in. Don't know what that was about.

 

 

Hijack alert~

 

What do these wipes do? Are they a repellant? Do you use one every day? Are they safe for us to nuzzle our faces on the cat after? Name of wipes, please?

 

Thanks in advance Jeannie.... one of our cats comes in with ticks all.year.long. and it's driving us crazy. And he's on Frontline or Advantage (I can't remember, but it's for ticks and fleas)!

 

Sorry, Heather~~ Hijack over! Enjoy your new kitty!

[Jeannie in NJ]

Hi Wildcat, they are called Vetri Repel. I think you can get them online but my vet gave me some to sample. They smell like lemon since lemongrass is the main active ingredients. The other ingredients are cinnamon oil, sesame oil and castor oil. Appears that ticks do not like these smells. One of the employees at the vets office uses them on herself when she goes camping. Neither my cats nor myself so far have had any adverse effects. The directions say to use 1 wipe per cat every 2 or 3 days which is what I have been doing and like I said the only tick that has showed up was after Sagwa was out in the rain and the stuff washed off. The other cats have had no ticks but they don't want out in the rain so no chance for the stuff to wash off.

[Wildcat]

Hi Wildcat, they are called Vetri Repel. I think you can get them online but my vet gave me some to sample. They smell like lemon since lemongrass is the main active ingredients. The other ingredients are cinnamon oil, sesame oil and castor oil. Appears that ticks do not like these smells. One of the employees at the vets office uses them on herself when she goes camping. Neither my cats nor myself so far have had any adverse effects. The directions say to use 1 wipe per cat every 2 or 3 days which is what I have been doing and like I said the only tick that has showed up was after Sagwa was out in the rain and the stuff washed off. The other cats have had no ticks but they don't want out in the rain so no chance for the stuff to wash off.

 

 

Oohh... thanks! I'm going to look for those!! :thumbup:

[Jeannie in NJ]

you are welcome. I am quite happy with the results of them