4 years old - Not potty-trained. HELP!

[Xuzi]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my 4 year old. He can *use* the potty. He knows what it's for, he can tell you "Pee pee goes in the potty!", and if you sit him on it he'll go. But he will wet his pants if you don't take him to the potty regularly. If you ask "Do you need to use the potty?" the answer is *always* "No", even if 5 minutes later he wets his pants. He's never said "Mommy, I need to go potty!" Ever. And he doesn't care if he's walking around in wet or poopy underwear either.

 

Has anyone ever dealt with this? Should I just keep him in diapers a bit longer, or try to force the issue and not let him wear them anymore?

 

My older two were all potty trained before they were *3*, so this is new territory for me.

[SailorMom]

Force the issue. Time for him to have wet or icky underwear and maybe he won't be able to ignore it as well..... Or perhaps making a mess of his clothing will make him realize that other kids aren't doing that? I hate to say it, but sometimes peer pressure and a little bit of embarrassment can come in handy.....

 

[chiguirre]

If he'll go when you tell him, I'd try a potty schedule. Just take him every 2 hours and hopefully he'll get into the rhythm of going eventually.

[PuddleJumper1]

I see your little guy is in speech therapy. Does he by chance have any sensory issues? My youngest's OT believes he may very well lack the ability to feel the need to use the potty or not realize what the feeling is due to his sensory disfunction. He will somtimes use the potty when we put him on it but does not know when his bladder is full. Wet diapers don't bother him one bit either. Admittedly, my guy has other issues going on, as well, but the potty issue is most likely due to his sensory issues. May not apply to your little guy at all but thought I'd mention it just in case.

[LostSurprise]

There can be two reasons: its too easy for him to stay in diapers or there is a physical problem. Its more likely that diapers are a nice easy thing for him, and he has no interest in making his life more complicated. Too busy.

 

With 4 boys I've found the easiest way to train is to buy him some underwear and tell him he's a big boy like his siblings. Set up a cleaning station in the bathroom: a stack of washcloths, a laundry basket in the tub. When he's wet direct him to the bathroom. Have him remove his clothing and put it in the 'dirty basket.' Then he should get a washcloth and wet it with soap and water. He should wash himself well and then put that in the dirty basket. Next he should dress himself. At every step he does everything himself. You just talk him through it. I do help with poop wiping. I don't think 4 year old boys are good at that.

 

Every time he's wet or dirty this happens. Fairly soon, he's going to realize its much quicker and easier to use the toilet. We human beings like things to be easy, :001_rolleyes: but when we have a stake in what's going on, we often become very responsible.

 

If this doesn't work within a few weeks, I would consider a trip to the doctor.

[Alessandra]

I am presuming that you've ruled out any medical issues.

 

The teacher in my dc's special needs class had a system that worked for most (all?) of the kids in the class -- who were about the age of your ds or slightly younger.

 

-- Take away the diapers during the day. No more diapers. Throw them out.

-- Buy some cute underpants with characters. Throw out, do not wash, soiled underpants.

-- Take dc to potty every 15-20 minutes, whether they need to go or not. Clear you schedule.

 

My dc were trained in about a day and a half. I was a nut case -- doing this with twins was beyond exhausting. (I did sneak some diapers on dc when we were going on a longish trip a week or so after they were trained -- against the "rules," but they didn't regress, thank goodness.) Teacher had said training usually took less than a week.

 

Btw, we had had potties in the bathroom for close to two years. Both dc knew how to use them, but didn't do so. They had watched their favorite potty video about 1,000 times.

 

Nighttime control is different -- dc got to wear diapers to bed until they were able to stay dry naturally.

[Susan in TN]

If he says he doesn't have to go, I'd tell him that he should go and "check" just to make sure. His nerve endings might not be fully developed, making it hard for him to feel when his bladder is full.

 

FWIW, 2 of my kids were not potty trained until they were 4.5. One year we were going on a long car trip to see grandma and we told dd that she needed to be completely potty trained before we left. She had about 2 months to get it together and that's what she needed to motivate her.

[Aspasia]

I decided yesterday to force the issue with my almost-3-year-old. He, too, knows how to use the potty but just wants to hang out in a diaper. Well, I'm sick of changing so many diapers, so yesterday, I just stopped putting a diaper on him at all. If I put undies on him, he just pees in them, so he's going commando for now. He has asked for a diaper a couple times, but I just say no.

 

I like chiguirre's advice.

 

Good luck! I know I'm going to need it. :)

[Annie]

Have you tried having him spend a few days with nothing on his bottom half? Do you think he would go to the bathroom right on the floor as readily as he would in underwear? I think underwear with pants can feel too much like diapers at first, especially for kids who are really busy.

[grantmeawish]

I would google John rosemond and follow his advice on potty training an older child. He is old school and some people may not like it but I agree with his parenting advice.

[Ottakee]

You have some good ideas if this is just more of a "I don't want to thing" so I will chime in on the medical/developmental thing.

 

One of my girls was similar to this. She would go when I would take her but wet soon after. She had a spastic bladder issue and once started on meds, she was dry and potty trained. Constipation can also be a big issue when there are wetting issues.

 

Check his little back/bum area and see if there is a little dimple above his little bum crack. Kids with a tethered spinal cord tend to have toilet training issues.

 

If you think it could be more medical/developmental then a quick check with a pediatric urologist will give you some answers. If not, some of the parenting techniques given above sound very good.

[Julie Smith]

Have you tried having him spend a few days with nothing on his bottom half? Do you think he would go to the bathroom right on the floor as readily as he would in underwear? I think underwear with pants can feel too much like diapers at first, especially for kids who are really busy.

 

This reminds me of something funny, but a warning.

 

I did this with Eldest when he was really little (He trained early).

 

He was alone without my eyes on him for only about 2 minutes. But in that time he ran into the dinning room and pooped under the table. A nice clean poop so nothing I would notice on his bottom. He didn't comment on it.

 

I think it was the next day that it was found as we tired to hunt down the bad smell on the main floor of the house.

 

So if you go for this method make sure he has not chance to do his business when you aren't looking. it's not something nice to find later.

[BarbecueMom]

My kids seemed to potty train better while out and about than at home. They had far less accidents for fear of being out in public in wet clothes, and I was better at remembering to take them to the bathroom more frequently. In fact, DS3 pretty much potty trained on a train ride a couple weeks ago because moving train bathrooms are just too cool to not use every twenty minutes.

[fairfarmhand]

Don't ask him if he needs to potty. Tell him. Potty time. Take his hand and head to the bathroom.

[Tita Gidge]

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with my 4 year old. He can *use* the potty. He knows what it's for, he can tell you "Pee pee goes in the potty!", and if you sit him on it he'll go. But he will wet his pants if you don't take him to the potty regularly. If you ask "Do you need to use the potty?" the answer is *always* "No", even if 5 minutes later he wets his pants. He's never said "Mommy, I need to go potty!" Ever. And he doesn't care if he's walking around in wet or poopy underwear either.

 

Has anyone ever dealt with this? Should I just keep him in diapers a bit longer, or try to force the issue and not let him wear them anymore?

 

My older two were all potty trained before they were *3*, so this is new territory for me.

 

If he always says no, I'd stop asking and simply take him to the potty at regular intervals.

 

It seems this is a two-prong problem, rather than just one simple problem ("not potty-trained").

 

Prong one, he doesn't realize or acknowledge body cues. This might be medical, psychological, or emotional in nature - but whatever it is, those cues aren't registering.

 

Prong two, it doesn't bother him to sit in his dirties. That isn't likely to change with a switch from diapers to briefs, IME. It's also not something you can really force him to change -- whether it just physically doesn't bother him OR it's a low priority for him, you can't make him suddenly prefer cleanliness. Unfortunately this rears it's ugly head again towards early puberty LOL.

 

If it were me, my primary goal would be to address prong one. Until I could figure out how to help him respond to his own body cues, I'd have to take those reins on my own. So we'd go at regular intervals. Some see this as having the parent trained. That never bothered me :) made for less frustration and laundry (we used cloth diapers). He might fight this, but it'd be handled so matter-of-factly just like every other biological need. It's time to eat, it's time to sleep, it's time to sit on the pot IYKWIM. Consistency would be paramount, though. It may take a few days or weeks to figure out his ... timing needs ... but you can do it if you dedicate a fewe times to observing him and noting his cues (grunts, physical discomfort, pausing mid-play, etc.)

 

I'd hope that in addressing prong one, prong two would fix itself as being clean became the newer normal. If it didn't, ... I don't know what I'd do! I suppose I'd continue to consider myself "trained" until it bothered him enough to take charge of it himself.

 

But initially, I'd let go of the idea he was going to suddenly be enlightened and want to use the toilet on his own.

 

My priority would be that one of teaching appropriate bathroom habits and hygiene. For my own peace of mind, I'd prefer one of us take control of the situation - even if it's me.

 

Good luck! None of mine were that old, either, but my family takes infants to potty so I am familiar with being the trained one in the relationship :)

[prairiewindmomma]

Ditto on ruling out sensory issues. He may have to be put on a timed potty schedule if he can't feel a full bladder.

[Lucy]

My oldest dd wan't trained until age 5. We started whe she was 2. It was a looooong 3 years - but we got there eventually! She had #2 mastered way before #1. I tried every angle in the book We didn't realize she had sensory issues at the time and I pushed and pushed. I just KNEW she could do it! She would try so hard and I would get so frustrated. Finally, I looked at her and realized. She acutally CAN'T do it. All her little sensory issues lined up in my brain (hair brushing hurting, hates jeans, not a cuddler, no balance, food all over face, etc.) and I realized this wasn't just her now wanting to, or being lazy, or being defiant. She couldn't tell when she needed to go. So we bought a boatload of pull-ups, and just waited until she could succeed - after I appologized repeatedly for pushing her. A little after 5.5, she could do it! This actually helped me calm down for the rest of the kids (and not worry about what the grandmas think) and just let them potty train when they really showed interest and ability. All the others were about age 3, give or take a few months.

[freesia]

My kids are waiting for me so I don't have time to read the other responses.

 

I would have him in cotton undies except at nap and night. Do not budge.

 

I would set the timer for 15 minutes and give him rewards for being dry--salty snacks or juice.

 

I would set the timer for 60 minutes and have him sit on the potty. Chocolate for producing.

 

For some kids, I think the reward for being dry are as key as the ones for pottying properly.

 

Best of luck

[kiwik]

You don't say whether he soils as well. After nearly 3 miserable years my son was diagnosed with encopresis. This is caused by constipation (often as a result of sickness). You may not even be aware of the constipation because he appears to have reasonably regular bowel movements. It results in frequent wetting as well as soiling because the nerves are damaged and they honestly don't know. It sometimes appears they do and you really have to work at reminding yourself that they are not doing it to drive you nuts.

 

Get it checked because otherwise you will be trying one thing after another and getting more and more stressed. At 6 he is a lot better but we still have bad days/weeks where I just we both end up in tears.

[gardenmom5]

does he "feel" it? I ended up putting my son in regular undies (no pants and especially NO padding!) and letting him run around in the yard, so he would "feel" it and make the connection. he was potty trained fairly quickly after that.

[Xuzi]

I've had him spend days wearing just underwear (except at night), and even days of nothing at all. He has regular, loose stools, even in underwear. He has yet to poop in the potty at all. He doesn't mind being wet. He even was sitting on the floor naked once eating a snack, and I watched him as he continued eating his snack as he peed. Didn't pause or even seem to notice.

 

He has an IEP reassessment coming up. I may ask them to test him again for sensory issues, although nothing has really come up before.

[laf919]

From what you just shared, I am inclined to think that he just doesn't sense things properly and that is your problem - if that is so, I would definitely talk with the IEP folks about sensory issues and check in with your pediatrician as well about other possible medical issues. Constipation is a big one as others have mentioned - but UTI's are another possibility - not as likely in your case, as this is on-going and not sporadic - but with my oldest dd, who was inclined to get UTI's, my first indication was always when she had accidents.

If there are no sensory issues or medical issues, I will share what worked for a little boy (now an honors college student) that I babysat when he was little. He was trained at 4.5 years old - long after he understood the process, etc. What his parents did was to tell him at 3.5 or 4 year old that he was now old enough to handle this so it was up to him. They cleared out a space in his dresser for underwear (the coolest kind they could find - specifics will vary with the child) and told him that when he was ready to use the potty, he could wear underwear and not diapers - but that it was up to him when he stopped wearing diapers. When he needed to be changed, he would need to get the supplies (diaper, wipes, etc.) and ask for help. If he didn't ask, he was changed in the morning, before nap, and before bed at night. Yes, sometimes he was wet for a long time at first - but he learned that being wet for a long time led to diaper rash, which was a. uncomfortable and b. more of a hassle because then he had to bring the diaper cream to changings as well. The keys to this were 1. the parents remaining emotionally neutral - everything was very matter of fact, no judgement - in fact, his mom told me that if she was feeling frustrated about the whole situation, she made a point of talking with him about anything but the diaper she was changing. If she could say, without judgement or anything in her tone of voice, "someday you'll decide to use the potty and then you'll be able to get back to playing so much sooner," she would - he didn't need to hear this every diaper change to understand the point. 2. the one inconvienced by all of this is the child in question. He or she is responsible for bringing the supplies, for asking for help, etc. And the child should learn that sometimes, he needs to wait a few moments before an adult is available to help. (if mom is on the phone, for example, he needs to wait until she is done before she can help him. Obviously, you know your child and his attention span and patience - I wouldn't think you would want to make a very impatient child wait for 30 minutes - but a short wait from time to time helps emphasize that it would be easier to do this yourself by using the potty.) In the family I knew that did this, the child was even responsible for telling mom and dad when new diapers needed to be purchased. Of course, they checked as well and would ask him to go check when making a shopping list - but in the child's mind, he had to tell them to buy more.

In the family I knew, the child in question woke up one morning and told his mom, "I'm not wearing diapers any more," and that was it - no accidents, nothing. It was a choice on his part - he understood what was needed and when he was ready, he did it.

*one other thing in this is that this happened back in the day when diapers actually felt wet. Part of the problem may be that your child can't feel wet in the modern day "stay-dry surface" diapers. Not sure if you can find ones that actually feel wet when wet - but you might try to and see if that helps.

 

Another thing to think about - my oldest dd was in daycare part-time until about age 3. The center she went to had everyone learn to go potty in the 2's room - and in that room, every 90 minutes to 2 hours of the day, everything stopped, the room was picked up, and everyone sat on the rug to listen to a story or sing songs with one teacher while the other teacher helped each of the kids either change a diaper or go potty. Everyone went - no questions. Many children were fine at daycare long before they were fine at home because they didn't have to remember - there was a natural time. And it wasn't a choice (do you need to?) - you just did when it was your turn. Many parents say that this is the parent remembering - but for me, I'd rather remember to take a child to the bathroom than change diapers. YMMV - but I think this is a situation of if it works for you to take him every 2 hours whether he thinks he needs to or not or you deal with accidents, etc. - I'd take him. You might also consider looking into a timer for him - the timer could be the reminder - he sets it for 2 hours, when it goes off he goes potty (need to or not - have to try) and then resets it.

[Mom-ninja.]

You just described my ds. I tried to force it at that age. Biggest mistake I made. I regret it to this day. Not winning awards for trying to force potty training.

 

As others have suggested it turned out my ds has sensory processing issues. All that struggling and forcing was a waste of time. It also did damage. Damage to him and to me.

 

Please don't try to force anything without ruling out medical and sensory processing problems.

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

Another vote for a naked bottom, no pants or anything else, until he's regular.

[KungFuPanda]

My son has significant delays due to a disability that wasn't diagnosed at the time and didn't train until age 4. What we did was x pair of underwear in a day. Once he soiled the number I could stand to deal with, it was back into diapers and we were both off the hook. Eventually, you get down to no diapers, then fewer pairs of underwear until he's dry all day. We also rewarded with an M&M if he went. Everyone in the house got an M&M when he went, so my older child was excellent at reminding DS to go. His first few BMs earned him a matchbox car. It took a few weeks, but that's what worked for us.

[SKL]

I also took/sent my kids to the toilet if they didn't go on their own for a stretch of time. Yes, that was me being responsible and not my kid (other than having the decency to hold it for a while in between). I don't see that as different from me being responsible for my kid getting to the table and eating lunch. For me the cons of using diapers (or having peed pants) outweighed the pros, so I did what I could to get that pee in the potty instead. I would refer to that stage as "diaper free" vs. "potty independent." Despite (or because of?) my helping at the early stage, my kids did ask to use the toilet by age 2. Though it took one of them until about age 3 before I stopped being the potty police. LOL.