zoobie Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Yes, that's what I mean. This couple had a one WEEK engagement (when she is very into fashion and would be the type who would take months to find the perfect dress) and a baby on the way whose due date is "too soon." I have no contact with her, so I'm not trying to get involved in any way. I'm just wondering about their chances of long-term happiness. DH and I are inclined to think that their chances of divorce (or a miserable marriage, since this cultish group considers divorce a horrible sin) are high. I assume they also think premarital relations are a horrible sin. Once you've thrown that out the window, why not keep going? I personally know three couples who got married because they were pregnant. All are still married and seem happy. None is in an oppressive, meddlesome situation though. Only one is my age, and my mind still boggles at her explanation that she and her boyfriend couldn't use BC because it was a sin. But what about the s3x?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandelion Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I don't know of any shotgun weddings. I do know of several cases where the woman decided to have the baby and remain single. Some of the dads stayed involved, others did not. Most of the women later married someone else. I agree that forcing an unwanted marriage on top of a (presumably) unwanted pregnancy isn't a good idea, and the odds are probably not favorable. I saw some interesting statistics about pregnancy outside of marriage during colonial times the other day. Wish I could find that reference again. It was apparently a lot more common than we think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4kidlets4me Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Having a baby without being married is no big deal as far as I'm concerned. Especially since this is 2013 not 1950. I do think it matters whether the couple has been together a while and already in a committed relationship or they just met. My DH and I had our oldest before we were married. We had already been together 2 years and were planning our wedding. I pushed the wedding back b/c I didn't want anyone to think we were getting married b/c I was knocked up. We ended up getting married a month before she turned 1. But we're not religious and had nobody pressuring us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extendedforecast Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I didn't even know pregnancy was still a reason to force a wedding. I also thought good girls didn't do that (8 lb preemies notwithstanding). Is there really enough popcorn to go around? Except that my third dd was a true eight pound preemie born almost five weeks early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavender's green Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I personally know of only two shutgun weddings. The first couple has been married for 26 years, have three adult children, and are very happy as far as I can tell. With the second couple, the woman died in a car accident only a year later, but I get the impression that it would have ended in divorce eventually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I know a bunch of couples who had "quickie" marriages because of a pregnancy, but it was more of a case of the father-to-be wanting to do the right thing by his girlfriend than the family pressuring them into it grudingly. Most of them have stayed together but a few have divorced (probably about the same % as the other marriages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JenC3 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Well my dh was the bullet:) His parents married in October and he was born in February. He's V-Day baby and I joke all the time he was a love child. His parents will celebrate 45 yrs this year. My bio dad got my mom pg and then got my half sister's 16 yr old gf pg. We're 8 months apart. He was "forced" to marry her. They divorced 20 yrs later. My grandparents were shotgun, but they'd dated for yeas and he was the love of her life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stripe Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I saw some interesting statistics about pregnancy outside of marriage during colonial times the other day. Wish I could find that reference again. It was apparently a lot more common than we think. I posted this earlier. I was told it was 1/4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The statistics say that "shotgun" weddings don't work out.... The statistics say that hardly any marriages of any kind work out anymore, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The statistics say that hardly any marriages of any kind work out anymore, lol Hardly any seems an overstatement to me. Overall divorce rates lump all demographics and couples together. Many demographics (age at marriage, income, education, expected gender roles, # of previous marriages) increase or decrease the likelihood of staying together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The statistics say that hardly any marriages of any kind work out anymore, lol That is not at all true. Divorce rates have dropped quite a bit in the last 3 decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DianeW88 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The people I know who fall into that category and get divorced generally follow the same pattern. After 10-15 years, the man decides to have a mid-life crisis because he missed out on all the "fun" he should have had when he was younger, but didn't, because he had to get married. He sees his youth slipping away from him and he generally starts blaming his wife for all his problems and misery in his life. Somehow it's all HER fault because she got pregnant. She ruined his "fun". Then the men either turn to porn, alcohol or have an affair. Or all three. The ones I know who didn't get divorced had husbands who loved being with their families and their wives. They enjoyed their roles as husband and father and didn't feel like "fun" was something they'd missed out on. I will say that out of the 8 specific couples I'm referring to....only two of them have had successful long term marriages. The others got divorced somewhere between 10 and 15 years of marriage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Ours was. We have now been married 16 1/2 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbeym Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 My mom's first marriage was a shotgun wedding b/c of me, perhaps literally so knowing all 4 of my grandparents. Neither spouse was faithful and they were separated longer than they were married, and divorced when I was 3. People assume DH and I had a shotgun wedding, but we'd already been planning the wedding and only moved the ceremony date up b/c I wanted it legal for insurance reasons before DS was born. My parents actually tried to convince me NOT to get married b/c they didn't like/approve of DH. That was 20 years ago and we're still quite happy and happily in love on most days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicianmom Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Shotgun marriages I can think of in my circle of acquaintances/family: 7. Five are still standing. The common factor is that in the marriages that survived, all the parties were over 18. The two that split, the brides were 15 or 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhschool Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I think there are worse reasons to get married than a desire to give their child a more stable life where both parents can be as fully involved as possible. I love this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer3141 Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Shotgun marriages I can think of in my circle of acquaintances/family: 7. Five are still standing. The common factor is that in the marriages that survived, all the parties were over 18. The two that split, the brides were 15 or 16. Oh please tell me the 15 year old bride happened 100 years ago... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Florida. Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I find it bizarre that this kind of thing still happens in the 21st century. I also find it bizarre that either or both halves of the couple would go along with it. Adults can simply say no. I'm pretty sure there are laws that prevent minors from being forced to marry too. The fact that they are going along with it means it isn't really a shotgun wedding. In answer to the question, no I don't know anyone who has had a shotgun wedding. I do know people who have had babies either before they got married or without ever getting married. Some are still together, some are not. I know many more people who got married first and then had babies. Some are still together, some are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I find it bizarre that this kind of thing still happens in the 21st century. I also find it bizarre that either or both halves of the couple would go along with it. Adults can simply say no. I'm pretty sure there are laws that prevent minors from being forced to marry too. The fact that they are going along with it means it isn't really a shotgun wedding. In my case, I was young and would have lost all family support if I did not marry. My potential spouse was the only form of support I would have had, and an abortion was not an option for me. He was loving, willing to marry me, willing to care for me and the baby. I would have been stupid not to do it. If I had family support (a place to live, for one) and parents who offered to help care for me and baby, maybe I would have thought differently. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excelsior! Academy Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 In my case, I was young and would have lost all family support if I did not marry. My potential spouse was the only form of support I would have had, and an abortion was not an option for me. He was loving, willing to marry me, willing to care for me and the baby. I would have been stupid not to do it. If I had family support (a place to live, for one) and parents who offered to help care for me and baby, maybe I would have thought differently. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes... This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicianmom Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Oh please tell me the 15 year old bride happened 100 years ago... :( 25 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 In my case, I was young and would have lost all family support if I did not marry. My potential spouse was the only form of support I would have had, and an abortion was not an option for me. He was loving, willing to marry me, willing to care for me and the baby. I would have been stupid not to do it. If I had family support (a place to live, for one) and parents who offered to help care for me and baby, maybe I would have thought differently. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes... When you put it that way, it makes a lot more sense. I guess everyone's situation is different, and from a young woman's perspective, she might feel as though she has no other option. Pregnancy is stressful under the best of circumstances, but when there's a lot of pressure on the young woman to marry (or else get kicked out of the house with no money and no opportunities,) I'm sure a "shotgun wedding" could very well seem to be the best possible option under the circumstances, especially if the guy is a good person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I find it bizarre that this kind of thing still happens in the 21st century. I also find it bizarre that either or both halves of the couple would go along with it. Adults can simply say no. I'm pretty sure there are laws that prevent minors from being forced to marry too. The fact that they are going along with it means it isn't really a shotgun wedding. In answer to the question, no I don't know anyone who has had a shotgun wedding. I do know people who have had babies either before they got married or without ever getting married. Some are still together, some are not. I know many more people who got married first and then had babies. Some are still together, some are not. Well, we had been planning to get married. We just got married a lot sooner than anticipated. We were in the Navy and would have been stationed on opposite coasts had we not been married. My youngest sister is 19, pregnant, and unmarried. I actually pray she does not make the mistake of marrying her baby daddy. It would be disastrous for her and her baby. He's a certifiable idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Oh please tell me the 15 year old bride happened 100 years ago... :( I know a 16yo that was forced to marry. This happened about 15 years ago. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsquirrel Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I know quite a few couples who decided to get married because of pregnancy. I don't think there was parental pressure though. It was always the couple themselves who were 'oops, I guess we should get married" My parents were like that, I have MANY friends who got married for that reason. I can't think of any couples who got married ONLY because of pregnancy where it has had a happy ending. They either divorced or are sort of limping along, locked in a cold war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stayseeliz Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 My aunt was forced into a shotgun marriage. She loved her husband very much but he was not a good man. She could have done better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 My youngest sister is 19, pregnant, and unmarried. I actually pray she does not make the mistake of marrying her baby daddy. It would be disastrous for her and her baby. He's a certifiable idiot. I hope the baby takes after your side of the family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I know a 16yo that was forced to marry. This happened about 15 years ago. :( :ack2: :ack2: :ack2: That poor girl. I hope the guy and his family were nice, and that it worked out OK for her and the baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 We would be very upset if any of our sons were having sex with someone they know they wouldn't want to be with out of the bed. We would be just shy of devastated if they didn't do all they could to marry her if she became pregnant. Is being a kid of not married parents the worst thing that could happen? No. Is it usually better for a child to have both their mom and dad under the same roof, united in the child care and provision? Absolutely. Are fathers usually more involved in their child's lives and more committed to the child's mother when married. Absolutely. Are families usually better off financially when mom and dad marry? Yes. Are parents who aren't married often a source of stress for their children? Yes. So yes, dang right I'd pray hard they married if they made a baby with a mostly decent person. Making a baby isn't a mistake. It's not like they accidentally had sex. Getting married in hopes of providing a better life for that child isn't a mistake either. Having a crappy martyr attitude about doing the loving and responsible thing is a mistake they can choose to make or stopping making at any time. And why should the grandparents have to step in and support them bc they don't want to marry? I think it's great if they are willing to help however they can, but I don't see why they should necessarily have to either. We married young. Not pregnant. But irl? I'm not seeing any evidence that being older or being together longer or what all else makes much difference in divorce rates or happiness levels of marriage. I do see a lot a financial misery based unhappiness in people trying to support two households and or families. I'd be far more worried about that if they don't marry than divorce later on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest inoubliable Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 In my case, I was young and would have lost all family support if I did not marry. My potential spouse was the only form of support I would have had, and an abortion was not an option for me. He was loving, willing to marry me, willing to care for me and the baby. I would have been stupid not to do it. If I had family support (a place to live, for one) and parents who offered to help care for me and baby, maybe I would have thought differently. Until you've walked a mile in someone else's shoes... Adoption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWOB Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I hope the baby takes after your side of the family. Oh God no! Our family is populated with drunks, criminal, and idiots. Let's hope the baby takes after its aunt ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Oh God no! Our family is populated with drunks, criminal, and idiots. Let's hope the baby takes after its aunt ;) :D :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 We married young. Not pregnant. But irl? I'm not seeing any evidence that being older or being together longer or what all else makes much difference in divorce rates or happiness levels of marriage. My husband and I also married young. I was 21 and he was 22. We were not pregnant, but we were impulsive. It's worked out well for us despite a rougher patch. That said, the success of your marriage or my marriage doesn't change the statistics that show a strong correlation between divorce and age at marriage. Couples under 18 and under 21 at time of marriage have the highest divorce rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 My husband and I also married young. I was 21 and he was 22. We were not pregnant, but we were impulsive. It's worked out well for us despite a rougher patch. That said, the success of your marriage or my marriage doesn't change the statistics that show a strong correlation between divorce and age at marriage. Couples under 18 and under 21 at time of marriage have the highest divorce rates. No. The highest rate is couples who married between ages 20 - 24. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson Wife Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Actually, after controlling for income and educational level there is NO correlation between age at marriage and divorce risk for couples where both spouses were at least 21 and neither had been previously married. That little statistic was in my college psychology textbook and was one of the arguments I used against my parents when they tried to talk me out of getting married at a month shy of 22. There is no greater risk of divorce for a 22 y.o. bride compared to a 32 y.o. one of similar education and income. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I can see that, Crimson, and I think that somewhat mirrors what I see IRL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LucyStoner Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 No. The highest rate is couples who married between ages 20 - 24. This table which I can't embed without it being the size of Texas shows highest divorce rates under 18 and under 20. Over 25 is lowest. It shows this across most ethnicities and the overall population. That table was taken from page 18 of this NCHS report. Delaying marriage until age 25 results in the lowest probability of divorce within 10 years overall. By state and region, those areas with the lowest average age at first marriage also tend to be states/regions with the higher rates of divorce. I don't disagree with most of the points in your longer marriage post, but yes, the younger the couple, the longer odds of staying together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I just google searched age demographic of divorce and the first 4-5 were all saying the same thing, highest rates of divorce were in those who married between ages 20-24. I'd link but iPad isn't saving pages when I flip back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Regardless though, it doesn't much matter to me what the stats are when it comes to doing the right thing. Barring the other parent ending up and awful dispictable person, we would strongly urge them choosing a loving responsible marriage because the stats for not marrying and raising a child separately have far worse projections than the divorce stats. I'm not saying anyone has to agree with me. Just sharing a perspective that is often lost in all the talk of whether they feel in love and can avoid divorce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Dup. Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Adoption. Wait, are you telling me I should have given my oldest child up for adoption? She, and all my children, have been the greatest blessing in my life. I could die tomorrow a happy woman, having lived a life that I find incredibly meaningful and amazing- because of each one of my children, and my husband. Pain and rough patches are just part of life. Thanks, but no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Welp, I'm a shotgun wedding and here we are going on 19 years. My parents (my mom's second marriage to my step dad) are a shotgun wedding and they're on 35 years, my Aunt and Uncle are shotgun and they're going on year 55. So. All 3 of these weddings were under duress? Or are you defining "shotgun wedding" differently? Just trying to clarify. No judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I find it bizarre that this kind of thing still happens in the 21st century. I also find it bizarre that either or both halves of the couple would go along with it. Adults can simply say no. I'm pretty sure there are laws that prevent minors from being forced to marry too. The fact that they are going along with it means it isn't really a shotgun wedding. Not necessarily. Many people who have been successfully conditioned to be obedient to the point of suppressing personal goals and ideals can't "simply say no." The anxiety disopbedience would create can be unbearable for many people, especially if they are financially, socially, and emotionally dependent on those to whom they are expected to be obedient. It would be easier to bear the effort and suffering of continually talking yourself into the idea that what you're doing is "good," and "right," and maybe even associated with eternal rewards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 All 3 of these weddings were under duress? Or are you defining "shotgun wedding" differently? Just trying to clarify. No judgement. I could be mistaken, but I'm assuming she means "the bride was pregnant before the wedding," not that there was actual weaponry involved (or even threats or coercion.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMJ Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 . I also know of numerous other couples that haven't made it and divorced in a few years. I don't understand it. Why follow one mistake up with another one? How does that make it all better? You might not agree with it, but for some splitting up isn't a mistake. Sometimes it truly is better for all involved. You don't always need to know the particulars of someone else's decisions, so unless this strikes very close to home you might never understand (and I hope you are that fortunate). Just accept that some people might make a decision that perplexes you, realize that it is a very difficult and heart wrenching decision, and maintain a non judgemental and civil tone toward them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Not necessarily. Many people who have been successfully conditioned to be obedient to the point of suppressing personal goals and ideals can't "simply say no." The anxiety disopbedience would create can be unbearable for many people, especially if they are financially, socially, and emotionally dependent on those to whom they are expected to be obedient. It would be easier to bear the effort and suffering of continually talking yourself into the idea that what you're doing is "good," and "right," and maybe even associated with eternal rewards. Are we talking about the very same people who were in theory conditioned to obey and not have sex outside marriage, yet low and behold they found some free will and managed to get pregnant? I don't agree. It can be, but most of the time I don't think it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Having a baby without being married is no big deal as far as I'm concerned. Especially since this is 2013 not 1950. I totally agree with you. I'm fortunate to live in an area where that's not a concern for most people anyway, so should there be any surprise pregnancies for my kids, there would likely be no pressure to get married. There certainly wouldn't be pressure from dh or I. Then again, I would not hesitate to discuss the option of terminating a pregnancy if that was desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albeto Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Are we talking about the very same people who were in theory conditioned to obey and not have sex outside marriage, yet low and behold they found some free will and managed to get pregnant? The human sexual drive can be very powerful, don't you think? And lets face it, we all succumb to impulsive behavior from time to time, even behavior we decide we would rather have avoided after the fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean in Newcastle Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 I could be mistaken, but I'm assuming she means "the bride was pregnant before the wedding," not that there was actual weaponry involved (or even threats or coercion.) That isn't the definition of a shotgun wedding that I use or have heard of. When I googled definitions, they all included coercion as an aspect even if pregnancy is what caused the coercion. I have heard of the pregnant before wedding baby called a "honeymoon baby" though no matter why the parents married. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catwoman Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 That isn't the definition of a shotgun wedding that I use or have heard of. When I googled definitions, they all included coercion as an aspect even if pregnancy is what caused the coercion. I have heard of the pregnant before wedding baby called a "honeymoon baby" though no matter why the parents married. That's very interesting, Jean. We've always used it only to mean that the bride was pregnant when she got married, not that she was forced to get married. I guess we play fast and loose with our terminology! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphy101 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 The whole merry go round logic that they have free will unless it's not because they felt pressure to make a decision that is beyond their own selfish whims. The merry go round continues with they didn't have the free will to not have sex so of course they can't be expected to accept the consequences. I have no patience for that nonsense tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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