Do most public schools offer Algebra I in 8th grade?

[mom32boys]

We've been homeschooling but are planning to put our kids in public school next year. I've had my kids on track to complete Algebra I in 8th grade. We live in a relatively small county, and I just found out today that they do not offer Algebra I until 9th grade. The county south of us offers an accelerated math class (mix of algebra and geometry) in 8th grade that counts for high school credit, so it's really just our county. I'm wondering if that is unusual. I went to a large middle school 20 years ago, and they offered Algebra I Honors in 8th grade even back then. I'm starting to think that we need to reconsider our future school plans...

 

Thanks :).

[Joker]

It was offered when I was in school years ago. Dd's middle school offers it for 7th grade Honors math.

[weederberries]

I took it in 8th grade.

 

ETA: It is not uncommon for students here to be bussed to another school for advanced math. For instance, a 5th grader might be bussed to the middle school to take Algebra 1 with the 8th graders. or a 7th grader to the high school for higher math.

[mom32boys]

Thanks everyone. I figured it was offered at most schools. When I asked the school registrar, she made it sound like there are no options for him to take it, but I'm trying to find out more information from the guidance counselor.

[Arcadia]

California has Algebra in 8th grade as one of the two tracks for Common Core. It is very common here to have at least a class of Algebra for 8th graders. The accelerated track would be a class of 7th graders in Algebra. They take Pre-Algebra in 6th grade.

[jamijoy]

They had Algebra 1 Honors in 8th grade when I was there 15 or so years ago.

[NotSoObvious]

Yes, it's very common, but usually considered an advanced class.

[regentrude]

Our ps offers it as an advanced class. All students are tested in 6th grade to decide whether they are allowed to take prealgebra in 7th; those will be allowed to take algebra in 8th.

[jennynd]

Here (ny)honor 6 math does 7/8 and honor 7 does 8/algebra. So they squeeze 3 yrs math in 2 years

[mom32boys]

Thanks everyone :).

[brownie]

Our public school does not consider it advanced track. Advanced track is Alg in 7th grade (or sooner for about 5% of the kids). All remaining students start algebra in 8th grade. The lowest track does half the book in 8th grade, finishing it in 9th.

[Spy Car]

Here in Los Angeles I believe 8th is standard, 7th is accelerated (and available at the two schools we are considering), and some kids do 9th as "delayed."

 

Bill

[Roadrunner]

Same here. 7th grade for kids that tested into GATE in elementary school. The rest take it in 8th.

[Koerarmoca]

I took Alg 1 in 7th and Geo in 8th, some students took a slower pace class and did 1/2 in 7th and finished in 8th, and some took "general math" or something like that and started the first 1/2 in 8th and finished in 9th.

 

Personally I would of rather been in the 1/2 and 1/2 class because it led me to have little choice but take very challenging math in high school since I was ready for Alg 2 as a Freshmen.

[boscopup]

It wasn't an option for me growing up, and I think my area still has Algebra in 9th as the norm. Not sure how hard it is to move ahead now. Funny thing is that we're a town full of engineers - plenty of mathy students. When I was in school, you could still do AP Calc in 12th if you started Algebra 1 in 9th. They didn't have us take PreCalc, but instead did Algebra 2/Trig combined.

 

So really, it will just depend on your area. What my area does has nothing to do with what your area does. What California does has nothing to do with what my area does. Etc.

[Luckymama]

And it can vary from district-to-district and school-to-school within the same area. Some schools here offer Algebra 1 to their top students in 6th grade, others in 7th grade, and most in 8th grade.

 

Note that this is to the TOP students, not everyone. The math dept chair at my older daughter's school told me that 20% of entering freshman pass the algebra placement exam to take geometry (or higher) in 9th grade.

[Dahliarw]

When I was in school the advanced kids took Pre-Algebra in 7th and then Algebra 1 in 8th. The other kids took 7th grade math in 7th and then pre-algebra in 8th. It seems strange they wouldn't have one advanced class, though.

 

My dh actually took Algebra 1 in 7th grade, Geometry in 8th, and then his mom drove him to the high school in 9th for Algebra 2 (my middle school was 7-9 and high school was 10-12). That was unusual, though, and kids without a dedicated parent could not do that. He ended up finishing Calc in 11th grade and took math through EPGY for 12th because the high school required 4 years of math to graduate, though they did not offer a "fourth year" for super advanced kids...

[mom32boys]

Thanks for the input. I spoke with the guidance counselor today, and the honors sequence is Alg. I in 9th, Analytical Geometry in 10th, Advanced Algebra in 11th, and AP Calc. in 12th. She told me that they're hoping to offer more courses in the future (while the newspaper reports major budget cuts for local schools next year). We live in a rural area that's not known to be "academic". We did let our 4th grader start this week (because he wanted to start school this last 9 weeks since our plan is for him to go next year anyway). Earlier this week his teacher sent home a study guide for a history test; it had several grammar, punctuation, and capitalization errors. I'm not usually picky, but I was extremely surprised. I emailed it to a friend in the "academic" county south of us, and she confirmed that it was atypical for her district and of poor quality.

 

Thanks again for answering my question.

[flyingiguana]

It varies. About half the schools near us do, the others don't.

 

However, I remember a bunch of parents got together to make their school offer it. Unfortunately, the school didn't get a math teacher to teach the course, but a history teacher. Now I can imagine many history teachers could pull this off (it's only algebra), but the course was a failure. Not sure if it was the fault of the teacher who was thrown in over his head, or if the kids wouldn't LET him teach.

 

Of the kids I knew who took that course none really was able to go on in math. They did poorly in geometry the next year, dithered around in the "integrated" math program for a couple years after that, and eventually all went on to major in things like history and sociology at college. Not that there's anything wrong with history or sociology, but I've always wondered if that push into algebra was not the best thing for those kids. Although they were doing well in math before, that year kind of knocked them off the track. I don't think they could have majored in STEM fields after that without someone doing a lot of remedial work. And they were probably "too smart" for that.

 

And after hearing all the complaints from parents about how awful the class was (and how it was all the teacher's fault), I wondered at the time why they didn't just step up to the plate and teach their kids the material on their own.

 

It also wasn't very pleasant hearing the kids, even several years after the fact, complaining about the teacher, and then recounting in gory detail all the horrible things they did in his class to make sure NOTHING got taught to anyone. They were quite proud of their sabotage efforts. They knew exactly what they were doing and had worked together on the project.

 

Sometimes, therefore, I wonder about the advisability of doing algebra with a bunch of kids who might not be completely ready, who are in the top grade of the school (and thus feeling like they've got something to prove), with a teacher who was kind of pulled off the street.

 

So I'd want to be sure the school/teacher were up to the challenge of teaching algebra to that age group and that it wasn't a hastily thrown together class.

 

BTW- we're in a city area. More recently, a number of the schools have stopped offering accelerated math in the K-8 grades and encouraged kids who want that to do special courses at the local university. But the kids have to place into it,and not everyone gets in.

 

My boss' son did that a number of years ago, though, and my boss wasn't all that impressed. The son did eventually get a PhD in physics, but my boss doesn't seem all that sold on the idea of accelerating kids in math as a general rule (my boss also teaches college physics, so he sees the math training that comes out of the local high schools.) Back when my daughter was racing through math, he advised me to slow her down, on account of his experience. (Although, as it turns out, my daughter is now taking physics and math classes from him at college and is one of his top students, so in hindsight, I guess he didn't know. He was just making generalizations.)

 

It's kind of a hard call, because on the one hand, you want kids to have the opportunity, but on the other, there are a lot of kids who would benefit from a slower and more thorough approach to math in the middle school years without rushing on to algebra before they're ready.

 

On the other hand, I took algebra in 8th and did fine.

[creekland]

In the stone ages I did Alg 1 in 8th and it was the advanced class for my high school. At the school where I work the advanced class does Alg 1 in 7th grade, average kids start it in 8th, and less math talented kids start it in 9th (or 10th).

 

This isn't the same thing as saying our school does a good job teaching Alg though. That's one of the reasons I homeschooled when my oldest hit high school. I work at our local high school and wanted better for my guys. The actual Alg knowledge at our high school is dismal at best. It wouldn't matter if they started the kids later. We use a terrible curriculum (CPM math).

[In The Great White North]

the honors sequence is Alg. I in 9th, Analytical Geometry in 10th, Advanced Algebra in 11th, and AP Calc. in 12th

 

You might want to ask for the course objectives, syllabi and textbooks . I don't see trig in there anywhere.

 

Most newer textbooks don't cover enough algebra in algebra I to do enough trig in algebra II, and I've never seen more than a chapter or two of trig in a geometry book. Check the Table of Contents and if the class finishes the book every year.

 

How do recent graduates end up doing on the AP test and freshman calculus?

[In The Great White North]

the honors sequence is Alg. I in 9th, Analytical Geometry in 10th, Advanced Algebra in 11th, and AP Calc. in 12th

 

You might want to ask for the course objectives, syllabi and textbooks . I don't see trig in there anywhere.

 

Most newer textbooks don't cover enough algebra in algebra I to do enough trig in algebra II, and I've never seen more than a chapter or two of trig in a geometry book. Check the Table of Contents and if the class finishes the book every year.

 

How do recent graduates end up doing on the AP test and freshman calculus?

[TechWife]

Here it is offered in 8th and 9th. They are pushing everyone to get them ready for Algebra I in 8th, but it is still taught pretty common to take it in 9th. My son did it in 9th.

[boscopup]

 

 

You might want to ask for the course objectives, syllabi and textbooks . I don't see trig in there anywhere.

 

Most newer textbooks don't cover enough algebra in algebra I to do enough trig in algebra II, and I've never seen more than a chapter or two of trig in a geometry book. Check the Table of Contents and if the class finishes the book every year.

 

How do recent graduates end up doing on the AP test and freshman calculus?

 

I'll bet it's like my school, where it was algebra 2/trig combined. I scored a 5 on the AP BC Calc exam easily (I walked out of that test knowing I had a 5).

[amsunshine]

I took Alg I in 8th grade and at that time, it was considered the accelerated track. Now, here in California, the accelerated group takes Alg I in 7th grade.

[vonfirmath]

And after hearing all the complaints from parents about how awful the class was (and how it was all the teacher's fault), I wondered at the time why they didn't just step up to the plate and teach their kids the material on their own.

 

A LOT of parents think they CAN'T teach math. I've got a friend who homeschooled her kids -- two of them all the way through from K to age 16 when they could go to community college. And with all three she utterly failed to teach math starting with Algebra. She struggled herself with Math and never really figured out a good way to pass it on. So the kids fell behind in Math in those years and picked back up what they needed at the Community College level, with remedial classes (and choosing to go into non-math degrees).

 

Sometimes, therefore, I wonder about the advisability of doing algebra with a bunch of kids who might not be completely ready, who are in the top grade of the school (and thus feeling like they've got something to prove), with a teacher who was kind of pulled off the street.

 

...

My boss' son did that a number of years ago, though, and my boss wasn't all that impressed. The son did eventually get a PhD in physics, but my boss doesn't seem all that sold on the idea of accelerating kids in math as a general rule (my boss also teaches college physics, so he sees the math training that comes out of the local high schools.) Back when my daughter was racing through math, he advised me to slow her down, on account of his experience. (Although, as it turns out, my daughter is now taking physics and math classes from him at college and is one of his top students, so in hindsight, I guess he didn't know. He was just making generalizations.)

 

It's kind of a hard call, because on the one hand, you want kids to have the opportunity, but on the other, there are a lot of kids who would benefit from a slower and more thorough approach to math in the middle school years without rushing on to algebra before they're ready.

 

On the other hand, I took algebra in 8th and did fine.

 

 

Personally I'm VERY glad they gave Algebra I at 8th grade in our schools. As it was, I was allowed to work at my own pace in math in 5th grade and finished every bit of the (supposed to be too long to finish) packet the teacher handed us. I learned nothing new in math until 8th Grade Algebra I. It got so bad that in 7th grade, I'd have my math book open on the desk and was reading my own book behind it. (the ONLY year and class I've ever gotten notes sent home from school!)

[In The Great White North]

In The Great White North, on 15 March 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

 

 

 

You might want to ask for the course objectives, syllabi and textbooks . I don't see trig in there anywhere.

 

Most newer textbooks don't cover enough algebra in algebra I to do enough trig in algebra II, and I've never seen more than a chapter or two of trig in a geometry book. Check the Table of Contents and if the class finishes the book every year.

 

How do recent graduates end up doing on the AP test and freshman calculus?

 

I'll bet it's like my school, where it was algebra 2/trig combined. I scored a 5 on the AP BC Calc exam easily (I walked out of that test knowing I had a 5).

 

That's what I did too, but when I looked at math books for ds, nothing newer than 1980 had that. That's why I would want to check the TOC and course descriptions.

[extendedforecast]

It is offered in our school district, but my oldest DD was not eligible to take the class when we registered her last August, even though she had already taken pre-algebra at home. Alg.1 in our district is only offered to those students who are on the accelerated track. The counselor did tell me that she could test out of Alg1 at the end of the year if I wanted to afterschool Algebra 1. Unfortunately, this just wasn't an option for us this year.

[extendedforecast]

I'll bet it's like my school, where it was algebra 2/trig combined. I scored a 5 on the AP BC Calc exam easily (I walked out of that test knowing I had a 5).

 

 

At my school trig was combined with geometry.

[boscopup]

That's what I did too, but when I looked at math books for ds, nothing newer than 1980 had that. That's why I would want to check the TOC and course descriptions.

 

 

Foerster's Algebra II/Trig Classics Edition was still be published as of 2005...

 

I went to school in the early to mid 90s, and I don't think our books were 15+ years old. :)

[Seeking Squirrels]

I took algebra in 8th grade in one district, then moved to a different district for 9th. That district split algebra into two years. They didn't care that I had done the full year of algebra already, they only cared that I had only done one year. So I had to take algebra 1b in 9th.

 

If I'd stayed in that district this would have been annoying but I still would have been on the normal track with everyone else. But we moved back to my first district with a month left of 9th. They had no choice but to put me back in algebra with the 8th graders. This put me doing geometry in 10th which was considered the slower track for that district. It was very frustrating for me, especially when I probably should have been on the accelerated track to start with, rather than the middle track. Since high school here is 10-12, it was only the slow track 10th graders in the class, no 9th graders on the normal track. It very much felt like a remedial class. There was no option for me to accelerate and catch up for the following years, I was stuck on my track.

 

I'm no help, but wanted to share my troubles with not being on the correct track for what I needed. It frustrated me throughout my high school years. Getting on the right track for the classes the student needs is worth a hassle or a fight or a different district if necessary.

[mom32boys]

Thank you all for sharing your experiences and opinions. We have a lot to consider - you've been very helpful!

[JFSinIL]

Our district offers pre-algebra and algebra 1 ..or just regular math - from 7th grade on. Most kids take algebra 1 in 8th or 9th grade. Some don't get to it until 10th grade :-( but as long as they get through the two years of algebra and a year of geometry they can graduate. Might not get into a 4-year college right off the bat, though.

 

It depends on the readiness of each kid when they start algebra.

[mom32boys]

Just found out from a friend (who has a high schooler in the advanced math track) that there is an uproar among high school parents in our county right now. Supposedly the kids graduating from our county are, as a whole, so poorly prepared for college math that many don't make the grades to keep their state scholarship after their first year of college.

 

So, it sounds like we really need to change our plans. Thanks again for your input.

[Dahliarw]

Depending on the age of your kids, and your state homeschool laws, you may be able to send them to school for all subjects except math (and they'd get an early realease or late start for one period to compensate). You may have to use a state approved online math curriculum or the sort, but it may be an option.

[mom32boys]

Dahliarw,

Good thought. Unfortunately we live in a state that has total separation of homeschool and public school, so that's not an option. Thanks though.

[Terabith]

I had always assumed that algebra 1 in 8th grade was the norm and what I should be shooting for, although when I was a kid, algebra was not offered until 9th, and you still got calculus. But I've been reading some studies that make me wonder..... Anyone have any insight into these?

 

http://epa.sagepub.com/content/early/2012/07/30/0162373712453869.abstract

http://www.education.com/magazine/article/higher-math-grades/

http://www.edweek.org/ew/articles/2012/04/20/29aera.h31.html

[Donna]

I had Alg. 1 in 8th and ds did as well in the same school system. It was considered an "honors" class and you had to test into it in both cases. The normal/average math progression is Alg. 1 in 9th but they do block scheduling so in 10th it is possible to take both Geometry and Alg 2 so you can get to Calculus by 12th.

[JFSinIL]

I remember years ago my sister in California getting upset that their district started REQUIRING 8th graders to take and pass Algebra 1 in order to move on to high school. Not all kids were on track to successfully take and pass Algebra 1 when the requirement abruptly took effect - :-( just requiring something like that won't make it happen if the work hasn't been done previously to have the kids ready to do it.

[Sebastian (a lady)]

Thanks for the input. I spoke with the guidance counselor today, and the honors sequence is Alg. I in 9th, Analytical Geometry in 10th, Advanced Algebra in 11th, and AP Calc. in 12th. She told me that they're hoping to offer more courses in the future (while the newspaper reports major budget cuts for local schools next year). We live in a rural area that's not known to be "academic". We did let our 4th grader start this week (because he wanted to start school this last 9 weeks since our plan is for him to go next year anyway). Earlier this week his teacher sent home a study guide for a history test; it had several grammar, punctuation, and capitalization errors. I'm not usually picky, but I was extremely surprised. I emailed it to a friend in the "academic" county south of us, and she confirmed that it was atypical for her district and of poor quality.

 

Thanks again for answering my question.

 

 

It feels like a rather big jump to go from algebra 2 to AP Calc. No pre-calc?

[Nart]

California just dropped the 8th grade algebra requirement when it realigned math standards to the common core.

http://www.edsource.org/today/2013/its-final-state-board-shifts-policy-on-eighth-grade-algebra/25672#.UUh4bXy9KSM

 

What isn't clear is what happens to accelerated students if the new normal is Alg. in 9th. It looks like districts can create accelerated paths that start Alg in 8th but it doesn't look like it is mandatory for districts to offer Alg. in 8th. Will there be an option for Alg. In 7th for really accelerated students like there is now?

[Arcadia]

California just dropped the 8th grade algebra requirement when it realigned math standards to the common core.

 

 

Algebra in 8th grade is one of the two options in California's common core implementation. It is just no longer compulsory. Schools that offer Algebra in 7th won't drop that as parents want it for their accelerated in math kids.

[Nart]

Algebra in 8th grade is one of the two options in California's common core implementation. It is just no longer compulsory. Schools that offer Algebra in 7th won't drop that as parents want it for their accelerated in math kids.

 

 

I really hope so. It seems like the two pathways are now Alg. in 9th or compacted pathway offering Alg. in 8th. I couldn't find anything that lists options to accelerate even more to offer Alg. in 7th. I am not optimistic about my local school district because as of right now it only offers Alg. or Honors Alg. in 8th grade, there is no 7th grade option. I am not planning on sending my kids to public school in middle school (either homeschooling or private school) but it will affect them when they go back to public school for high school.

[Arcadia]

I couldn't find anything that lists options to accelerate even more to offer Alg. in 7th. I am not optimistic about my local school district because as of right now it only offers Alg. or Honors Alg. in 8th grade, there is no 7th grade option.

 

It varies by school district. Mine has it in one school. Other districts has it in more schools. The kids basically pass their school district's aptitude test to take pre-algebra in 6th grade followed by Algebra in 7th. Math is competitve in my area. AP calculus BC has 51% scoring 5 in California according to the report to the nation.

 

Scope from one of the high schools showing the accelerated paths

http://www.debratroxell.com/MathDept/images/MathScopeAndSequence.jpg

[AuntPol]

Here most college tracked kids take Algebra 1 in 8th grade, I have kids in my Sunday School class who are already taking Geometry in 8th grade

[Nart]

It varies by school district. Mine has it in one school. Other districts has it in more schools. The kids basically pass their school district's aptitude test to take pre-algebra in 6th grade followed by Algebra in 7th. Math is competitve in my area. AP calculus BC has 51% scoring 5 in California according to the report to the nation.

 

Scope from one of the high schools showing the accelerated paths

http://www.debratrox...AndSequence.jpg

 

 

I meant to accelerate after the implementation of Common Core. I realize that now approximately 6-8% of 7th graders take Alg. 1 in California. My fear is after Common Core rollout if most students are taking Alg. 1 in 9th grade then perhaps the only acceleration allowed will be for Alg. 1 in 8th grade (and that option won't be available for 7th graders) OR in my district that doesn't even have a track to let 7th graders take Alg. then my district will only offer after Common Core - 9th grade Alg. and 9th grade Honors Alg with NO option to take Alg. in 8th grade.

[dirty ethel rackham]

I took algebra in 8th grade ... back in the dark ages and not a great school discrict. Where we live, about 50% of students take algebra in 8th grade. A small percentage take it in 7th grade (we have a magnet Math & Science middle school.)

[Joyofsixreboot]

Most schools do. Ours does not. One of many reasons we homeschool.

[mom32boys]

Sebastian, no Precalc - it is very odd. They also have 4x4 block scheduling, and thus only take math one semester each year.

JFS - you're right - I guess I can assume that they aren't preparing any of the kids to take Algebra I in 8th grade, so in general math is probably taught at a slower pace than many other schools. I don't agree with making every kid take Algebra I in 8th either, but I just assumed that most middle schools offer it as an option.

 

The guidance counselor had me shaking my head today. I told her that the reason I am asking so many questions is bc I had heard that several students lost their scholarships due to math troubles in college. She told me that there was no way that the parents could know that math was the course that made their child's GPA drop, bc they base the scholarship on the cumulative GPA for all classes!!!!! I had to email her back and politely suggest that the parents knew that math was the problem because their child got a lower grade in math than the other courses, therefore it would be the class that caused the child to lose the scholarship.

[8circles]

I don't know what our 2 middle schools offer for 8th grade math as they don't publish it that I can find (& my oldest is only 9). But the only high school in the district offers Algebra II/Trig for freshmen so I would assume that Algebra I would be offered in 8th.