Community colleges ending dual enrollment due to over-enrollment

[8filltheheart]

The local CC just announced that they will suspend dual enrollment as an option if their enrollment numbers continue to rise. They have added numerous trailer classes and increased virtual offerings and have made the decision that their next step is to restrict enrollment to adults and post- high school students. Last yr they already restricted enrollment to those over the age of 16 to prevent younger high school students from enrolling.

 

The homeschool community is probably the biggest group impacted by the decision.

 

I'm not sure if this is becoming more common across the country or not, but I have read in the past about this occurring in other areas.

 

Just thought I would mention it since many homeschoolers plan high school yrs around dual enrollment as their main source of classes. Exploring additional options might be prudent if your local CC is seeing an equivalent rate of increased enrollment.

[Jane in NC]

Free dual enrollment had been the norm with local homeschoolers until NC began charging for humanities courses. High schoolers were also being bumped to the back of the line as more adults enrolled during the economic downturn.

 

The strategy that some homeschoolers used here was to enroll students in Early College high schools. Those students could continue to take free college classes.

 

Not sure where things stand in NC now since my son has aged out of the process.

 

Good to see you on the boards again "8".

[creekland]

CC is booming here too. They had already restricted classes to those 16 and over and testing into all college level classes here (at full pay). It's surprised me that many of you could do a bit more.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I wish our CC had a similar problem. We do have the 'must be 16' rule, which has hindered younger homeschoolers, but other than that there are no limitations on who can take courses or how many or in which courses a student may enroll.

 

The only issue with DC courses in our area is with the high school. The school administrators have decided that too many seniors are graduating at midterm and/or taking DC courses off campus so they are making it more difficult for students to enroll in DC courses.

[Angie in VA]

Thanks for posting this, 8. While we didn't go this route for our dd, it'd be nice if it were on the table for ds. I haven't heard this about the cc closest to me...at least not yet.

[Tullia]

Excellent points, 8. My son had lots of adults in his cc courses who had been laid off or were planning a career change. It was a good thing for the general atmosphere in the classroom, but my son started full-time enrollment during a record-breaking semester for enrollment. He was able to put together a reasonable schedule most of the time, but finding classes to fit his major/commuting schedule was difficult and so was parking. In addition, there has been an ongoing battle in NM over funding--some want to divert money from cc (especially remedial courses) to high schools. However, NM has an astronomical dropout rate, so others argue that it would be best to keep the money at the cc level. So far, I haven't heard of enrollment restrictions but it could happen.

 

ETA: My understanding of the situation for home school students in NM is that they're not eligible for the official dual/concurrent enrollment program which pays tuition. We paid before ds graduated high school, but the costs were very reasonable. Commuting with today's fuel prices...not so much.

Edited January 11, 2013 by Tullia

[Ellie]

_{It's a mixed bag in California. As I understand it, many cc are limiting (or elminating) dual enrollment, but some allow students under 18, not enrolled in high school, to enroll as college students, not dual-enrolled high school students, and there's no age limit. Those students pay the same tuition as adults. It is how my dds started their cc paths.}

[AimeeM]

I don't think our CC's offer dual enrollment for high schoolers. I can't seem to find any information on it.

[Tidbits of Learning]

We are part of a charter and are approaching high school now with the oldest. She can take high school classes in 8th grade for credit, but in high school they said that all the schools are moving away from dual enrollment and focusing more on AP classes for possible college credit. The homeschoolers here have to be 16 to enroll in CC. They technically need to be "graduated" from their homeschool with specific ACT scores that are higher than required for ps graduates.

MIL works in admissions/registration at the CC here and classes are hard to come by and the environment is often not great for high school students. There are some people who bring their toddlers to class and all. The humanities teachers here allow it in order for the students to better themselves. The math and science classes do not.

I was talking with a hs'er who graduated at 16 a few years ago and is about to finish CC and transfer to a 4 yr college. She is the one who informed me of the "daycare" environment in some classes and different things. She is my children's piano teacher and it was very enlightening b/c we were talking specifically about my 7th grader's options. My 7th grader wants to be a veterinarian and honestly after talking to her and MIL...I think taking AP classes would be better in the long run and aiming for a scholarship to a 4 yr college. I would honestly wonder how she would do at 16 with the current dynamic at the CC here. I think I would prefer to send her to the local high school for AP classes over the environment at the CC.

I think with anything...it is better to look at the long term than the short term. Short term-cc would bring college credits faster. Long term-bad influences, poor class environment, possibly weaker classes (AP is often much stronger than a CC class), maturity...that type of thing. From talking to dd's academic adviser it sounds like the state is moving towards less dual enrollment and pushing more AP classes for high school. Homeschoolers are being given tougher requirements to enroll early to CC at 16.

My dd will graduate from hs at 17 anyway so...it would only mean 1 yr's difference for us.

[Guest inoubliable]

Well, pooh. DS12 and I were just beginning to explore the idea of dual-enrollment for HS courses. He's a rising 7th grader so we have some time to figure this out, but I think we'd better get a move on if this is becoming a trend across the country.

[arghmatey]

Wow, thank you for the information. My oldest is 6, but dual enrollment is a big part of our high school plan. Of course, things will change by then, but at least I can start thinking of other options.

 

Thank you!

[Candid]

Free dual enrollment had been the norm with local homeschoolers until NC began charging for humanities courses. High schoolers were also being bumped to the back of the line as more adults enrolled during the economic downturn.

 

 

This isn't quite what happened. The state changed the law to say that only STEM classes for high school students would be covered by the state and required to be open to high school students. Some cc's allowed high school students (and I imagine mostly home schoolers) to take non STEM classes and pay for them as adult students, but other counties, mine is one, did not, they played exactly by the state rules and only enrolled high school students in STEM classes.

 

Interestingly some of the smaller state universities also tried to enroll home schoolers in their online classes, but they ran into more friction with the state guidelines and found themselves limited to only the STEM classes.

 

 

The strategy that some homeschoolers used here was to enroll students in Early College high schools. Those students could continue to take free college classes.

 

Not sure where things stand in NC now since my son has aged out of the process.

 

Good to see you on the boards again "8".

 

 

The state changed the rules again last January and now they have programs that a student can take classes in. One is college prep, but the classes in the program are limited, for instance you can only take one semester of a foreign languages.

 

In my county the early colleges are all run by the local school system and require full time enrollment as far as I am aware. This includes the early college in our county cc.

 

Although, I will say that I am also aware of one regular public high school enrolling a student for only two classes so he can play on an athletic team. Near as i can tell from reading on this, this is a huge violation of the athletic guidelines at state level and also a pretty big exception for our large county system which mostly is not interested in any but full time students. So I'm not sure what to make of it.

[Murphy101]

We take advantage of the dual enrollment here because the tuition is waived, which is about half the cost of the classes. Just yesterday I received a phone call saying one son's class didn't make due to low enrollment, so we had to hurry up to the school and change to another course before classes start Monday. They said enrollment was actually way down across the board this semester.

 

We are thinking of using dual enrollment with the local universities next year. Then we won't have to worry about what will or will not transfer from the local cc to the school they plan to attend and in some cases, it will save us money to go directly there. For example, it takes two Spanish classes at the cc to get get credit for Spanish 1 at the university. Spanish 1 at the university is more expensive than at the community college, but not as expensive as taking two classes there. Just one example of the devil is in the details.

[mommaduck]

Have there been any issues with community colleges in Florida? I'm planning on dual enrolling my oldest.

[Granny_Weatherwax]

I am flabbergasted that some CCs offer dual enrollment for FREE! Our DC students must pay 100% tuition and buy the books. It makes it quite interesting when I teach DC classes on high school campuses. Many of the students think I am going to pass out the books the first day of class. Um, no. This is a college course and you must go buy the book from the college bookstore.

[Crimson Wife]

Here in CA, students of any age can take the CHSPE (H.S. proficiency exam)) so long as the parent declares him/her a 10th grader. Then the student can take CC classes with the same priority as adult students. I know kids who are 'tweens and taking CC classes. I wouldn't personally want my kids on a CC campus until they are H.S. aged, but I tend to be on the more protective side compared to many moms I know IRL (HSers, PS parents, or private school parents).

[Melissa B]

Have there been any issues with community colleges in Florida? I'm planning on dual enrolling my oldest.

 

 

We decided to move over the summer because our local CC (Pasco-Hernando) just switched from allowing dual enrollment for 9th grade+ to dual enrollment for 11th and 12th grade only. And there was a definite anti-dual enrollment / anti-homeschool feel to the changes. Where we are now (Alachua county) allows dual enrollment at the university for 9th+ and dual enrollment at the CC for 11th+. The university has been very welcoming to dual enrolled students and the CC actually caters to them, so I don't see any issues locally for the time being.

[mommaduck]

 

We decided to move over the summer because our local CC (Pasco-Hernando) just switched from allowing dual enrollment for 9th grade+ to dual enrollment for 11th and 12th grade only. And there was a definite anti-dual enrollment / anti-homeschool feel to the changes. Where we are now (Alachua county) allows dual enrollment at the university for 9th+ and dual enrollment at the CC for 11th+. The university has been very welcoming to dual enrolled students and the CC actually caters to them, so I don't see any issues locally for the time being.

 

Crud, Hernando County is where we are looking for a place. Fortunately, my oldest is an upper classman, but my second child will be a freshman. I'm even more concerned that there would be an anti-homeschooling feel. I thought Florida was a very pro-homeschooling state?

[Jane in NC]

This isn't quite what happened. The state changed the law to say that only STEM classes for high school students would be covered by the state and required to be open to high school students. Some cc's allowed high school students (and I imagine mostly home schoolers) to take non STEM classes and pay for them as adult students, but other counties, mine is one, did not, they played exactly by the state rules and only enrolled high school students in STEM classes.

 

.

 

Thanks for the correction.

 

The state changed the rules again last January and now they have programs that a student can take classes in. One is college prep, but the classes in the program are limited, for instance you can only take one semester of a foreign languages.

 

In my county the early colleges are all run by the local school system and require full time enrollment as far as I am aware. This includes the early college in our county cc.

 

Although, I will say that I am also aware of one regular public high school enrolling a student for only two classes so he can play on an athletic team. Near as i can tell from reading on this, this is a huge violation of the athletic guidelines at state level and also a pretty big exception for our large county system which mostly is not interested in any but full time students. So I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

 

The families that I know who went the Early College route abandoned home schooling for the sake of dual enrollment. I should have been clearer.

 

Wow, I have not heard of any homeschoolers who have been allowed to participate in public school athletics. That one takes me aback.

[Melissa B]

Crud, Hernando County is where we are looking for a place. Fortunately, my oldest is an upper classman, but my second child will be a freshman. I'm even more concerned that there would be an anti-homeschooling feel. I thought Florida was a very pro-homeschooling state?

 

 

The community itself is very homeschool friendly. We love Hernando County. It is only the CC that was beginning to make changes. I've homeschooled in several counties of Florida and have always found it pro-homeschool. Hernando county is our favorite place in Florida and where we hope to retire. As to the CC situation, I've heard that the CC to the south, St. Petersburg College (with a large campus in Tarpon Springs,) is homeschool/dual enrollment friendly and I know that to the north Santa Fe CC and UF are certainly homeschool friendly.

[Farrar]

So, what am I not understanding? Places are phasing it out because it's so successful? That seems... weird.

 

Is it because dual enrollment students don't pay and they need more paying students? Except some people seem to be saying that they're phasing out programs where you pay as well? Is it because it threatens the ps's monopoly on students and too many are finishing "early"? I don't quite get it.

[mommaduck]

The community itself is very homeschool friendly. We love Hernando County. It is only the CC that was beginning to make changes. I've homeschooled in several counties of Florida and have always found it pro-homeschool. Hernando county is our favorite place in Florida and where we hope to retire. As to the CC situation, I've heard that the CC to the south, St. Petersburg College (with a large campus in Tarpon Springs,) is homeschool/dual enrollment friendly and I know that to the north Santa Fe CC and UF are certainly homeschool friendly.

 

Could we choose any CC? Also, if you know of any 4 or 5 bedrooms for rent by March, please pm me ;)

[8filltheheart]

So, what am I not understanding? Places are phasing it out because it's so successful? That seems... weird.

 

Is it because dual enrollment students don't pay and they need more paying students? Except some people seem to be saying that they're phasing out programs where you pay as well? Is it because it threatens the ps's monopoly on students and too many are finishing "early"? I don't quite get it.

 

No, it is because the target population for community colleges is workers attempting to further their education for employment advancement or for 2 yr transfer program students. Teaching high school students is not a priority focus. That is the purpose of government-run high schools. I do not know if the dual enrollment courses actually taught on high school campuses are impacted. I would assume not because space on for enrollment is the main issue.

[Farrar]

No, it is because the target population for community colleges is workers attempting to further their education for employment advancement or for 2 yr transfer program students. Teaching high school students is not a priority focus. That is the purpose of government-run high schools. I do not know if the dual enrollment courses actually taught on high school campuses are impacted. I would assume not because space on for enrollment is the main issue.

 

I see. So having huge dual enrollment programs threatens the mission of the CC's. So perhaps dual enrollment will continue, but the ps's will have to find a way to morph it into something new or control it by keeping it on campus and that the whole system will just take some time to adapt and change.

[Candid]

Wow, I have not heard of any homeschoolers who have been allowed to participate in public school athletics. That one takes me aback.

 

Well, it is a spring sport, so I'll have to wait and see if he plays, but I have another friend who's son plays the same support at the school and she says they are desperate for players.

 

I've tried to keep my mouth shut, because I think sometimes we don't understand what lessons we are teaching our children.

[dbmamaz]

sports - my state does not allow it

 

Community colleges - i think you might be missing the point. The community colleges do not have enough resources to take in all the students applying and they dont have funding to expand, or at least not fast enough. So in order to try to meet the needs of adults who are trying to re-train for careers, and the actual college students, they are not allowing high school students to take classes. To ease a shortage.

 

My daughter was dual enrolled and we had to pay everything. For her, because she had not graduated high school, she could not be a matriculating student. Therefore she could not do the online class registration, which opens a week before the in-person registration. Therefor, she got last dibs on classes. The university she was in still gave priority to get in to classes to upper classmen, since they needed the classes to graduate and would not have time to wait until next year for the classes only offered once a year.

 

I'm hoping to enroll my son next year, but he'll be a senior and i only want him to take one (or two, second semester) basic classes, just to get used to what is expected from him in a college class.

 

I wouldnt worry about small kids - hopefully by the time they are ready to dual enroll, the economy will be strong again and there will be fewer unemployed adults desperately trying to retool themselves, and there will be more availability and the CCs will relax the requirements again

[momto2Cs]

Thankfully, as of now, our local junior/community college is still doing "concurrent" enrollment, and they take [homeschooled] high school students grades 9-12. Ds wants to go in a few years for art and computer classes at least!

 

ETA: Yes, we'll have to pay for the classes, or look into financial aid depending on how things are going by then, but the costs are actually quite reasonable.

[Melissa B]

Could we choose any CC? Also, if you know of any 4 or 5 bedrooms for rent by March, please pm me ;)

 

It is up to each school. I don't know what changes were made over the summer, but last year PHCC students could enroll at St. Petersburg College for classes that weren't offered at PHCC. UF only requires the student to be living in Florida. But you have to have Florida residency, so 12 months in the state. It would be a long drive from Hernando County though, a solid 1.5 hours at least.

 

We have several friends still in the area so I'll keep an ear out for rentals and pm you if I hear anything. :)

[mommaduck]

Thank you :)

[JumpedIntoTheDeepEndFirst]

I'm a bit surprised.

 

I'd always thought that I, as a homeschooler, would be paying CC tuition if I duel-enrolled one of my kids.

 

On the other hand...when I was in high school we had several local schools that lacked offerings at the top levels for several subjects and the high schools sent the kids out to the CC to get higher level courses. As in the school or district offered no gifted and talented services, no AP classes, no calculus or similar courses, etc. The local district was entirely dependent on the support of the CC.

 

Have to see what develops with this around the country. Thanks for the heads up.

[curlylocks]

We just enrolled our second child at the local community college. The State of Maine allows high school Juniors and Seniors to take 2 classes each year TUITION WAIVED. (The student pays course fees and for books.)

 

When we were looking over the course listing it was a "mixed bag" -- there were many classes maxed out with a waiting list. There were other classes that were being cancelled due to low enrollment. They were prioritizing matriculated students over non-matriculated students.

[TranquilMind]

The local CC just announced that they will suspend dual enrollment as an option if their enrollment numbers continue to rise. They have added numerous trailer classes and increased virtual offerings and have made the decision that their next step is to restrict enrollment to adults and post- high school students. Last yr they already restricted enrollment to those over the age of 16 to prevent younger high school students from enrolling.

 

The homeschool community is probably the biggest group impacted by the decision.

 

I'm not sure if this is becoming more common across the country or not, but I have read in the past about this occurring in other areas.

 

Just thought I would mention it since many homeschoolers plan high school yrs around dual enrollment as their main source of classes. Exploring additional options might be prudent if your local CC is seeing an equivalent rate of increased enrollment.

 

 

Discrimination against home schoolers! ;)

[FairProspects]

That stinks. I can't say I'm all that surprised though. Some IRL homeschoolers had already warned me that most likely by the time my kids are old enough to use it, we will be paying full tuition, even if they are allowed in the classes in late high school.

[Murphy101]

I don't see that happening here. I suppose they might stop the waiver option, but I doubt they will start denying high schoolers. The cc here has campuses on site of most of the high schools. It's often jokingly referred to as _insert name of high school_ extended high school because of how many high schoolers either attend during junior/senior year or go there straight from high school.

[Crimson Wife]

Even paying full tuition, the student is still heavily subsidized by the state.

 

A big part of the problem here in CA is that the 4 year state schools have drastically slashed enrollment, so there are students who have finished their associate's programs but who cannot get a transfer slot into a CSU hogging places at the CC. Because they are considered "upperclassmen", they get top priority in classes. The pipeline needs to get unclogged by adding slots at the 4 year schools but because of the budget mess, they are cutting enrollment rather than increasing it. It's a big mess :glare:

[sassenach]

My friend in the Orlando area was just telling me about this! It's common among both home and public schoolers there, but the local cc is bringing it to an end.

[Lori D.]

So, what am I not understanding? Places are phasing it out because it's so successful? That seems... weird.Is it because dual enrollment students don't pay and they need more paying students? Except some people seem to be saying that they're phasing out programs where you pay as well? Is it because it threatens the ps's monopoly on students and too many are finishing "early"? I don't quite get it.

 

 

Probably a financially-based decision.

 

Yes, the CC gets money for tuition from each student, but many CCs ALSO receive income from the State budget on a per-student basis. When students drop out of classes early and don't finish the semester, some student tuition has to be reimbursed, but even harder on the CC is that they lose the income from the State's budget that they *would* have had, now that those student behinds are not in the CC seats. Similarly, "free" dual enrollment for high school students is usually paid by the State's education dept.; they take back the tuition whenever a high school student drops out of the dual enrollment class. High school students tend to have a much higher drop-out rate than graduates or returning adults, hence the policies to reduce the most financially unstable element (high school dual enrollment students) from the CC's budget in order to make the most room for the most financially beneficial and stable element (adults)

 

In addition, as a business, you want to run every class at capacity to be making the most money possible for the amount you have to pay out to teacher salaries, electricity to light and heat/cool the classrooms, and to cover administrative costs.

 

 

Yes, some changes with the the CC near us -- mostly minor changes to phase out high school level *remedial* courses, as they benefit the CC least financially now that there has been a big influx of adults returning to the CC for additional training or working towards transfer to the university for a BA. Our CC has also stated they want to move towards just offering classes to adults (and dual-enrolled high school students who really CAN work at a college level), rather than high school students working at a high school or lower (remedial) level, due to the lower dropout rates associated with adults.

 

Homeschoolers here were exempted from our CC's recent policy change that requires CC students (other than high school students in the special vocational dual enrollment classes) to have either a high school diploma or a GED to take any class at the CC. We get to continue taking classes as we have -- and paying for them as we have ;) -- except for the handful of free dual enrollment classes for in a few vocational-type areas that work towards things like fire/police dept., culinary arts, mechanic, nursing assistant, etc.

 

 

As a previous poster mentioned, these policies tend to ebb and flow with the economy, so I wouldn't panic at this point if I had a young student several years away from being able to do dual enrollment -- policies can easily change again by the time your student is ready for possible CC classes... Every state -- indeed, every COUNTY -- seems to have a different policy, so check around and see what's available...

 

BEST of luck in your dual enrollment and CC adventures, all! Warmly, Lori D.

[SunnyDays]

Yes, in our state homeschoolers can also play sports, or enroll for one class or a few. It's an option we're looking at if we continue homeschooling into middle school.

 

Interesting developments regarding CC enrollment. I'll have to look into it here and see what's happening.

[Melissa B]

My friend in the Orlando area was just telling me about this! It's common among both home and public schoolers there, but the local cc is bringing it to an end.

 

 

Have they checked with UCF? They have dual enrollment as well.

[JenC3]

I don't think our CC's offer dual enrollment for high schoolers. I can't seem to find any information on it.

Greenville Tech and USCS, Clemson at the University Center, and N. Greenville U. All offer dual enrollment.

[hsmamainva]

My oldest dd took classes dual enrollment as a homeschooler at our community college and we had to pay full tuition & books.

 

We live in Virginia.

 

Haven't heard anything about it being phased out.

 

I plan on doing the same thing for my now-8th grader in just a few years -- so hope it remains an option!

[FloridaLisa]

Have there been any issues with community colleges in Florida? I'm planning on dual enrolling my oldest.

 

Crud, Hernando County is where we are looking for a place. Fortunately, my oldest is an upper classman, but my second child will be a freshman. I'm even more concerned that there would be an anti-homeschooling feel. I thought Florida was a very pro-homeschooling state?

 

There have been issues at many of the community colleges throughout the state. The Florida home education lobbyist, Brenda Dickinson, has been gathering information and is looking into the situations. One of our local CCs has now limited homeschoolers to 2 classes per semester. Another local county CC still allows dual enrollment with no problems.

 

Lisa

[ktgrok]

Crud, Hernando County is where we are looking for a place. Fortunately, my oldest is an upper classman, but my second child will be a freshman. I'm even more concerned that there would be an anti-homeschooling feel. I thought Florida was a very pro-homeschooling state?

 

 

Just wanted to say please let me know if you do move, I'm in the Orlando area and wouldn't be that far from you!

[Barbara H]

Folks shouldn't panic, check on your local situation. For most of us it will be unchanged. If anything what I see as the trend is the expansion of dual enrollment for kids enrolled in college. There are more "middle college" type programs opening up to channel at risk kids into community college. We've also got a new public school experimental school in my area which is based on the idea of having high school students part time at the state university (which years ago was very restrictive about allowing high schools students on campus). So, my point would yes, there are changes but not all in the direction of limiting dual enrollment. That said, knowing where state funding for education is, I wouldn't assume free dual enrollment will be available forever because it has been in the past.

[mommaduck]

 

Just wanted to say please let me know if you do move, I'm in the Orlando area and wouldn't be that far from you!

Definitely moving. We are waiting on taxes.