Three years with Katya, and all is not well. Would love input!

[Cindy in C-ville]

After my post about our golden retriever and his detected heart murmur, I realized what a treasure you all are! Of course, I've known this since the board before the board before the board, but I'm appreciating you all over again. :)

 

So, it's hard to believe that we are three years into welcoming Katya home. But, we are. We KNOW that adopting her was right and good and we would do it all over again. But, all is not well and I would love your insight.

 

Those of you who journeyed with us might remember that she was with her grandmother, Tamara, for the first six years of her life. At that point Tamara placed Katya in the orphanage with the hope that she would be adopted because she was having a hard time caring for her and felt that her health was beginning to fail. For this reason, we didn't think we would be dealing with attachment issues because she had attached to her grandmother. Now, I'm not so sure.

 

So, here's a laundry list of stuff we're dealing with:

 

*crazy lying - will lie even if the evidence is right in front of her. Is truly characterized by lying

*stealing - food and technology particularly

*no remorse, angry when "caught," says "sorry" and asks forgiveness, but it's just words

*denial, blaming, etc. - never takes ownership

*"I don't know" is her standard answer

*bedwetting - she sleeps in a pull-up every night, every night. Sometimes wets through a pull-up

*sleep issues - she has a hard time getting to sleep and staying asleep. I think this is connected to her bedwetting

*nighttime wandering, eating, trying to get on the computer, etc. When she can't sleep she sneaks around the house.

*shutting down, zoning out

*rarely cries - only cries if she's really hurt

*doesn't feel badly about hurting someone physically or emotionally

*sometimes teases the dogs and may hurt them at times

*inappropriate laughter - laughs at people and when she does things that would embarrass most people

*sneaks around at night and during the day

*sensitive to smells

*gets carsick and gets headaches in the car, particularly smaller cars

*burps A LOT

*destroys things - knifing the control panel of our stove is one of her most recent things.

I've been hesitant to talk about this stuff in any kind of a public way, but I don't feel like any of the "ordinary" things we're doing are making a real difference. So, I'd love your input. TIA!

[Starr]

:grouphug: Sending a hug while you wait for info from those in the know.

[unsinkable]

:grouphug:

 

i'm really sorry. have you tried a sleep study or an eeg? this would apply to the sleep issues, headaches, car sickness, senssitive to smells.

 

And try seasickness bands for the car sickness.

[G5052]

I'm not a professional, but it certainly sounds like attachment disorder of some degree. You need help from someone outside the situation. Even if they had a loving relationship at some point, breaks in that situation can cause lasting problems.

 

I actually talked to a good friend of mine this afternoon who has four grandchildren who struggle with varying degrees of attachment disorder, and they've found professional help invaluable.

[Jan in SC]

You might want to pm Denise. I hope you get some good advice!

[CyndiLJ]

RAD. Very, very much RAD. Check out http://www.attach-china.org for info and checklists to help as you evaluate. Also, check into sensory integration disorder, which also might be in the mix. You are wise to not ignore this, the big signals with harming animals and no remorse over hurting others' feelings are big red flags and you need to get help now, because it will only grow worse. I am so sorry to read all you are dealing with. Been there, done that with an infant and it is no fun at all, and quite scary if you let your mind sit with it for a bit. You need to get a good attachment therapist, preferably one with experience in post-institutionalized kids, who come with a different set of issues sometimes than foster kids, and the whole child needs to be looked at.

 

Check out Dr. Boris Gindis' site which may have some helpful info. http://www.bgcenter.com

 

Dr. Federici is a specialist; http://www.drfederici.com

 

Nancy Thomas is a bit extreme in my opinion, but with a child like yours she might have some very helpful advice: http://www.attachment.org

 

You are also smart to recognize that ordinary parenting techniques will not work, and you need to learn new ones that often feel contrary, but do work. All is not lost, but you have a long and hard road ahead of you, and the longer you wait the harder it is. Please, please feel free to PM me if you need support.

[Bensmom]

No answers here, but my thoughts and prayers are with you and your family.

[Clarkd]

It does sound like attachment issues. We work through this stuff too. This is one of the reasons we hs. It takes a long time. We do see improvement. It used to be believed that it attachment issues were permanent and the child was as they would always be. Now, although it is understood as a long term issue, there are ways to make gains! Having professional help and a good support network are so important. It is hard, at least in my rural area, to find good professional help. Another thing that was supportive for me was hearing other family stories who work through these issues. There is a good free audio blog on itunes in which one family discusses many of their issues with their child. It is called Foster Parenting. I understood this wasn't how you adopted, but it deals a lot with attachment issues. Start from the beginning and listen forward. There is also a regular blog on the web called Baker's Dozen and Apollo 14. She doesn't write as much about it now, but if you search in her search bar for Avi (one of her adopted children's names) you will find considerable info. We do have some specific strategies, but outside of the guidance of a professional (which I'm not) I don't think it is helpful to give specific ways to interact that, for a different child, may not be the right strategies. However, once you have a care plan I am more than happy to compare notes! Feel free to pm me if you would like to ask anything specific. My best to you on this issue, please keep us updated!

[Melissa in Australia]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Guest]

:grouphug: Thinking of you. Those do sound like the hallmarks of RAD from my understandings (no personal experience).

[Desert Rat]

Hugs to you as you await answers. I second contacting Denise.

[bettyandbob]

I don't know about adoption issues, but you should rule out and/or treat the physical issues

 

I'd go to neurology for an EEG to see about absence siezures (zoning out), headaches, and sleep problems

I'd also go to ent for sleep problems

get a sleep study

go to Occupational Therapy practice which specializes in sensory integration --you list a lot of sensory stuff

 

If you are lucky, sleep could be at the heart of all this. Not getting enough sleep causes multiple behavior and learning problems. If you never sleep you don't know what "normal" feels like, so a child in this situation couldn't really articulate what the problem is. My ds went through a sleep study in September. We found out he didn't really sleep. He roused 28 times a night. So he never entered deep sleep. Since he had the surgery that removed tonsils, adenoids, part of his palate, other stuff... I noticed he's putting together more words. I'm hoping progress continues. My ds is 11 has down syndrome and went through a major regression in behavior and academic skills last year. We are following up on a lot of stuff, but every doctor said get through the sleep study and surgery first and then see what actually needs fixing.

 

research RAD and see what you need to do there, but don't do that exclusively, you truly might have a simpler answer based on a physical problem.

 

I'd schedule appointments across all areas at once and just go to them as they become available. I'd go to the local Children's hospital and try to find a Developmental Pediatrician who can help you as a case manager, maybe help you get into specialists earlier.

[NotSoObvious]

Ok, so first remind yourself that some of those behaviors are normal for a 10 year old, so try not to get overwhelmed by every negative thing.

Second, I assume she's been in therapy? What does her therapist say? If you do not have a rock solid therapist who specializes in attachment, get one- like yesterday!! This made ALL the difference for us!!! She really helped us sort through normal behaviors vs those related to attachment.

Third, get a therapist. Did I mention therapy? Run, don't walk. :)

[NotSoObvious]

Oh, and I'm sorry, I'm totally going to disagree with going to any type of pediatrician!!! Those have been our most horrible experiences. They know nothing about adoption. The developmental pediatrician was the WORST. See a good therapist first, and have her sort through which issues need to be seen medically.

[bettyandbob]

Oh, and I'm sorry, I'm totally going to disagree with going to any type of pediatrician!!! Those have been our most horrible experiences. They know nothing about adoption. The developmental pediatrician was the WORST. See a good therapist first, and have her sort through which issues need to be seen medically.

 

 

A therapist is not going to diagnose a sleep disorder based on a physical issue. That's why I said to work on everything at once. No reason to spend years in therapy when what you really needed was surgery.

[Chris in VA]

Sounds like she may have GERD, too--

So sorry you have to go thru this, but I'm glad you are willing to and love her enough to get help.

Tons of hugs.

[CyndiLJ]

Oh, and I'm sorry, I'm totally going to disagree with going to any type of pediatrician!!! Those have been our most horrible experiences. They know nothing about adoption. The developmental pediatrician was the WORST. See a good therapist first, and have her sort through which issues need to be seen medically.

 

 

I agree 100%. Those who don't truly and fully understand RAD or adoption issue (Other things that have RADlike qualities) will not be helpful, and can be extremely harmful by verbally sending the wrong signals to you or your daughter, or worse yet, calling in social services to investigate because of the things you say.

 

A standard pediatrician should come after a therapist and you have had some good long discussions about what is RADish, and what needs to be explored that is physical. Others simply don't have the training, and quite frankly, are easily "played" by a RAD kiddo.

 

There IS hope though, and you can make loads of progress with the right help! I'd second the "run,don't walk" to a really qualified therapist in your area.

[CyndiLJ]

 

A therapist is not going to diagnose a sleep disorder based on a physical issue. That's why I said to work on everything at once. No reason to spend years in therapy when what you really needed was surgery.

 

 

 

Often RAD creates HORRIBLE sleep issues. Sleep disorder may be a part, but trying to tackle everything at once in a shotgun effect is not always the best way to go. You end up spending enormous amounts of money chasing "what if's" when a qualified RAD therapist can serve as the overseeing treatment specialist and save you a lot of money and time with assumptions based on non-RAD thinking. Working with children like this can see money drain out of your pocket faster than you could ever imagine, and putting the money spent into the right therapies is important. There are likely more things going on than just RAD, but having one specialist help sort it out and help keep track can be a lifesaver.

[Harriet Vane]

:grouphug:

[DawnM]

Hugs. I concur with it sounding like RAD. We have several friends who have had big issues with adopted children, particularly when they were adopted older than the first year or two of life.

[Twinmom]

I agree...it sounds like some degree of RAD. However, there are sensory issues that can cause similar behaviors, as well as drug or alcohol exposure or related brain disorders. With an adopted child, particularly one from Russia (notorious in adoption circles for bad medical information and frequent FASD kids) it is difficult to make s clear diagnosis by behaviors alone.

 

I would strongly recommend that you look into a QEEG with a neuropsychologist who has experience working with adopted kids. You need a good, thorough look at her brain to know what is going on, particularly since it is doubtful that you have all necessary medical history. From there, neurofeedback is showing some exciting results in RAD kids...there can be a great deal of hope. IMHO, skip the psych evals, counseling appts and drugs until you know specifically what is going on in her brain. NF is the big guns, but it should be the first step with a child like yours. It builds a foundation for most of the other therapies and gets right at the root of the problem. If I had it to do over again, that is where I would start...instead of finishing there after many years of heartache!

 

Hugs!

[Lisa in Jax]

Our son from India used to do many of the things you listed. We've dealt with crazy lying, no remorse, destructive behavior, sneaking, bedwetting, sleep issues, extreme hyperactivity, saying "sorry" w/o understanding (or caring) what it means, no impulse control (just does things w/o thinking first), arguing incessantly, intentionally breaking known rules, using "I don't know" as the answer to everything, and so on.

 

Several things helped:

 

1. Although it's not the first thing most people think of, diet can make a BIG difference in our kids' behavior. Traumatized kids often have leaky gut and can't eat gluten (wheat, rye, barley, etc.) or dairy, b/c it wreaks havoc on their bodies and their behavior. So, please consider implementing the gluten- and casein-free diet. In my son's case (and for many of my friends' adopted children with behavioral issues), it ended a BUNCH of behavioral concerns we thought were due to "RAD." (The gluten/casein-free diet doesn't cure attachment disorder, but it can decrease some of the symptoms, for some kids.) When we went gluten- and casein-free, my son stopped wetting the bed. He started going to sleep in a reasonable amount of time (and slept all night) and he stopped being a grumpy, inflexible jerk in the morning. His hyperactivity dropped, and he learned better in school. His aggression decreased. His tantrums decreased. He was more flexible (i.e. could deal with "No," and with not getting his way). It took a few weeks of being 100% gluten- and casein-free, but it WORKED.

 

2. Learn more about therapeutic parenting (a la Nancy Thomas, or Greg Keck, or other attachment experts) . You need skills to deal with these behaviors. It's IMPERATIVE.

 

3. Meet (online or IRL) some other moms who're dealing with attachment issues so that you can get support. I second the recommendation to join "Attach-China" and similar yahoo groups, for example.

 

4. Find a therapist who specializes in attachment disorder -- NOT someone who just "knows" about it. You need someone trained by one of the big names in AD.

 

5. Start treating her like she's younger. Give her less freedom and fewer choices. Increase the structure and supervision. If you can't watch her, be sure she is in a safe place where she can't hurt herself, her siblings, or the pets. This might mean that you invest in a cheap door alarm, so that you know when she leaves her room. Make her world small, safe and predictable.

 

6. Stop asking her "why." She doesn't really know, or just won't tell you. It's a waste of time, and it harms both of you.

 

Hugs to you. It took a long, long time for our son to move past those behaviors. (We still deal with minor behavioral issues, but it's nothing like before.) it was emotionally and physically exhausting to be as structured and on top of things as you need to be.

 

Please feel free to email me if I can help or just listen.

 

Lisa

lkporter91 at gmail

[Twigs]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[Cindy in C-ville]

Why would anyone go anywhere else for advice? I really am so appreciative and so thankful for all the hugs and prayers as well as advice.

 

One of the realities we've faced since we brought Katya home is a drastic reduction in income. Without going in to all the details, we are the classic case of not being financially better off now than we were four years ago. Job loss, no health insurance, short sell of our house, etc. As a result ... no therapy. None. Financially, we're doing a bit better now, but we still haven't financially recovered and don't have the finances to do what I'm afraid we need to do. We still don't have health insurance. As you can imagine, this is a huge stress.

 

I SO wish this wasn't a factor, but it is. So, help me prioritize.

 

From what many of you are saying, and what I'm sensing, the first thing, ideally, would be to find a therapist who specializes in attachment issues. Set up a consultation and see if we can swing the finances, if the therapist will work with us, etc. I think I also need some kind of a support group in my area (central NC). I've looked online, but haven't been able to find one.

 

If this is the right path, then how in the world do I go about finding a therapist? What questions do I ask? How do I talk about the finances? Up until now we have had no need for any type of specialists for ourselves or our kids, so this is uncharted water.

 

And, do you have any suggestions for how to find a support group?

 

Regarding the tackling it from every angle at the same time, I understand that. But the thought of it truly overwhelms me.

 

I have been looking at links, and will continue to do so.

 

What else am I missing? Other thoughts?

 

I cannot tell you how thankful I am for this "alongside community!"

[AK_Mom4]

I'm not sure what it's called there in NC, but is there any chance Katya might qualify for your state's CHIP (children's insurance program)?

[texasmama]

Is it possible that she was exposed to alcohol in utero? The symptoms you describe are also pretty common with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. Without knowing her complete history, I wouldn't feel comfortable confirming RAD, though her behaviors sound pretty consistent with RAD. FAS would be a rule out diagnosis, though. Sorry I don't know any of your history here - Where was she adopted from?

[Clarkd]

To find a good therapist do a couple things, check with your agency to see if they have any attachment therapists they rec. Then talk to adoption support groups in your area. I found some via facebook, put in adoption support (name of city) then adoption support (name of state) if you have not yet connected with any. Then do a google search for same. Ask for their rec. for attachment therapists. When you start getting a consistent name, contact that person. Ask if they have experience with post institutionaluzed children, international adoptions, ask their treatment philosophy. Yes ask if they have sliding scale for folks with no insurance. I agree totally with making her world smaller. Fewer choices, no unsupervised time. Fewer care providers. For a cheap door alarm, we found toys, ours was a monkey, that slipped over the doorknob and made noise when the door opens. They were under $10 way cheaper than a regular alarm.

[Mom-2-7]

I'm going to throw one more thing out there. Grief. How did she / is she handling the separation from her grandmother?

 

My Dd has been home with us for 4 years (in 3 days). She lived with her grandma from 6 months to almost 5 years. RAD should not be a problem. But she does exhibit many of the behaviors that OP listed above. She may have it but we are finding out that right now, the over riding problem is grief and loyalty issues. She feels very guilty and disloyal to gma if she allows herself to love and care fore us. She deliberately does wrong things to put a wall between us.

 

Finding this out has really been a "lightbulb" moment for all of us. We're hoping that once we work through these issues, many or most of the RADish behaviors will disappear as well.

[cin]

If finances are an issue, then at the very least go to the local library and see what you can get regarding RAD & Adoption books. Contact Denise and talk with her. And research, research, research, because if/when you go to a counselor, you need to know if THEY know what RAD is and what they are doing. It looks like there is a University Medical Center in your town, and after you do some research see if there are some counselors there who might be able to help. I agree, pediatricians are not going to be much help, but I will say it won't hurt to ask. You never know if they have dealt with this before, either in their own life, or the patient they saw right before you.

[Cindy in C-ville]

I agree...it sounds like some degree of RAD. However, there are sensory issues that can cause similar behaviors, as well as drug or alcohol exposure or related brain disorders. With an adopted child, particularly one from Russia (notorious in adoption circles for bad medical information and frequent FASD kids) it is difficult to make s clear diagnosis by behaviors alone.

 

I would strongly recommend that you look into a QEEG with a neuropsychologist who has experience working with adopted kids. You need a good, thorough look at her brain to know what is going on, particularly since it is doubtful that you have all necessary medical history. From there, neurofeedback is showing some exciting results in RAD kids...there can be a great deal of hope. IMHO, skip the psych evals, counseling appts and drugs until you know specifically what is going on in her brain. NF is the big guns, but it should be the first step with a child like yours. It builds a foundation for most of the other therapies and gets right at the root of the problem. If I had it to do over again, that is where I would start...instead of finishing there after many years of heartache!

 

Hugs!

 

 

 

This overwhelms me. There definitely could be FAS stuff. She was 1 kilo at birth and we know nothing about her mother's health, care, etc. I don't even know what QEEG is...

[Galatea]

This website lists income limits to qualify for Medicaid for children: http://www.ncdhhs.gov/dma/medicaid/families.htm#infants

 

Definitely do all you can to get her into therapy. I'm an adopted child and I had many symptoms of RAD, though I was never diagnosed with that. Therapy helped me a lot. As an adopted child, I knew my parents loved me, but I also knew I wasn't the same as them. And there are many more difficult emotional issues to process for a child.

 

You're an amazing person for taking a child into your family like this. I hope you can find the help you all need.

[Cindy in C-ville]

I'm going to throw one more thing out there. Grief. How did she / is she handling the separation from her grandmother?

 

My Dd has been home with us for 4 years (in 3 days). She lived with her grandma from 6 months to almost 5 years. RAD should not be a problem. But she does exhibit many of the behaviors that OP listed above. She may have it but we are finding out that right now, the over riding problem is grief and loyalty issues. She feels very guilty and disloyal to gma if she allows herself to love and care fore us. She deliberately does wrong things to put a wall between us.

 

Finding this out has really been a "lightbulb" moment for all of us. We're hoping that once we work through these issues, many or most of the RADish behaviors will disappear as well.

 

I do believe that she did grieve, and she continues to talk about her grandma. We skype with her a few times a year when our facilitator is able. We look at pictures and talk about her. Tonight she asked if she could scroll through the pictures I have on my computer. I said, "Sure!" and then asked her if this makes her feel happy or sad. She said, "Happy."

 

I do know at first this was an issue for her because I found out after one of her first conversations with her grandma after we came home that her grandma had said, "I wish I hadn't let you go." This was really hard for Katya. I explained that her grandma is "happy-sad." She misses Katya, but was happy that she was in a family. I have no idea if she still thinks about this.

 

She talks about wanting to go back and see her grandma, and I would love for this to happen. I just don't see how we could make it happen.

[CyndiLJ]

 

 

This overwhelms me. There definitely could be FAS stuff. She was 1 kilo at birth and we know nothing about her mother's health, care, etc. I don't even know what QEEG is...

 

Cindy, it IS overwhelming and there are so many factors that can come into play. You just need help to start peeling away the layers, like an onion. I'll bet there isn't any one factor, actually, it almost never is. Then each thing tends to be exacerbated by the other.

 

I can share with you that the single most important thing that helped me was to not view the behavior as aberrant. Once I really internalized that Josh's behavior was, in fact, PERFECTLY normal considering what had happened to him, and that actually for him to act differently would be odd, I found myself in a better place and able to depersonalize it all. Making it not about me was what saved me, and helped me respond in a much more appropriate way.

 

Hang in there, help is out there, you just have to work really hard at seeking out the right resources.

[Cindy in C-ville]

To find a good therapist do a couple things, check with your agency to see if they have any attachment therapists they rec. Then talk to adoption support groups in your area. I found some via facebook, put in adoption support (name of city) then adoption support (name of state) if you have not yet connected with any. Then do a google search for same. Ask for their rec. for attachment therapists. When you start getting a consistent name, contact that person. Ask if they have experience with post institutionaluzed children, international adoptions, ask their treatment philosophy. Yes ask if they have sliding scale for folks with no insurance. I agree totally with making her world smaller. Fewer choices, no unsupervised time. Fewer care providers. For a cheap door alarm, we found toys, ours was a monkey, that slipped over the doorknob and made noise when the door opens. They were under $10 way cheaper than a regular alarm.

 

 

Very helpful, but we have to skip over step 1. We were in C-ville for the adoption and are now in central NC. I've been searching for adoption support groups in our area and believe there have to be some. I just haven't been successful finding them.

 

On the monkey, does it make a noise when it's moved? Trying to figure out what kind of toy this would be...

[Cindy in C-ville]

 

Cindy, it IS overwhelming and there are so many factors that can come into play. You just need help to start peeling away the layers, like an onion. I'll bet there isn't any one factor, actually, it almost never is. Then each thing tends to be exacerbated by the other.

 

I can share with you that the single most important thing that helped me was to not view the behavior as aberrant. Once I really internalized that Josh's behavior was, in fact, PERFECTLY normal considering what had happened to him, and that actually for him to act differently would be odd, I found myself in a better place and able to depersonalize it all. Making it not about me was what saved me, and helped me respond in a much more appropriate way.

 

Hang in there, help is out there, you just have to work really hard at seeking out the right resources.

 

 

When I think about all she's been through I am in awe of how resilient she is! She survived in an Eastern European orphanage. That's no small feat. She wrote out in longhand in front of the orphanage director her desire to be adopted. She stood up in front of a judge and declared that there was nothing keeping her in Ukraine. She has jumped into a family with six siblings and held her own. She is an absolutely amazing young lady.

 

When I can step back and remember this, and remember that it's not about me, its' so much better.

[Pamela H in Texas]

There are two things I'd do absolutely first.

 

1) address the sleep issues. If possible, a sleep study would be nice. For the behavioral aspects, this is what we did: I got a Tot-clock (another foster parent told me about it). It is blue at night and yellow when kids can get up. It is a quick visual for kids to know what they were supposed to be doing. I had a threshhold alarm that went off every time he got up. Each time, I would say, "clock is blue, go to sleep." At first, he still got up 8 times per night. In time, he would stay in bed more. In short order, he just stayed in bed (outside of pottying though that became rare also). After a few weeks, I gave him a time out (with the tot-clock) for not lying quietly, "trying to sleep" when the clock was blue (it was about 5 minutes before the clock was going to turn yellow...I wouldn't have done it for a night time thing "just in case"). He's done BEAUTIFULLY all but a few times in the last 11 months. BTW, bedwetting has ended too.

 

The reason I'd focus on this first is simply because behavior is very much tied to getting enough sleep, having a regulated system, etc.

(I'd also discuss enuresis treatment with her, see if she is interested. My son wasn't at first and he really needed to be on board. But that will also likely help with sleep and how she feels about herself. However, money is a consideration depending on the method you use)

 

2) Beyond Consequences. From the website, you can get to the email group on yahoo. The women there are AWESOME and just reading will help you sound it down into your mind and heart. But you are definitely welcome to ask questions for any help also. The books are available on kindle (phone, computer, etc) for $10 each. The classes are $200 (for ten weeks of 90 minute classes for two people) and they will gladly work with you for a payment plan. There are two sessions starting this winter. If you go to help-for-billy.com, you can read the first chapter of her newest book. Now, you may not need that book, but that first chapter is very helpful in terms of what this is about.

 

I want to say that though those behaviors could be attachment disorder related; but they could be a myriad of other concerns also. Grief, anxiety, fears, etc can wreak havoc on a child's behavior. Anniversaries (of coming home, of loss, of trauma, of special times, of holidays, etc) can be challenging. Fear of losing you (because if you can lose one family, you can lose another you know...and now she's lost her mom and grandmother). When a child is feeling dysregulated, even normal stresses (the sound of the dishwasher or a tiff with a sibling) can throw the child over. Dysregulation begets dysregulation. It's a snowball.The snowball CAN start going the other way, but it takes a lot of work. And she won't always "help."

[Cindy in C-ville]

This website lists income limits to qualify for Medicaid for children: http://www.ncdhhs.go...ies.htm#infants

 

Definitely do all you can to get her into therapy. I'm an adopted child and I had many symptoms of RAD, though I was never diagnosed with that. Therapy helped me a lot. As an adopted child, I knew my parents loved me, but I also knew I wasn't the same as them. And there are many more difficult emotional issues to process for a child.

 

You're an amazing person for taking a child into your family like this. I hope you can find the help you all need.

 

Somebody else let me know about this tonight. I will definitely check into it. Thank you!!!! And you have my utmost respect for walking the journey you have walked!

[Parrothead]

I'd get her in therapy as soon as possible. She may have RAD but she may not. Your poor dd lost her only family and her country in a short space of time. Not to mention whatever horrors she went through in the orphanage, and being adopted and coming to the US. She has to be emotionally scarred.

 

All of her symptoms could very well be stemming from that trauma.

 

perhaps you can get her on state insurance soon. I think she needs a sleep study, a therapist and possibly a full work up and allergy testing.

 

In the meantime perhaps some melatonin and an elimination diet.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Maybe a few things...

 

There are two things I'd do absolutely first.

 

1) address the sleep issues. If possible, a sleep study would be nice. For the behavioral aspects, this is what we did: I got a Tot-clock (another foster parent told me about it). It is blue at night and yellow when kids can get up. It is a quick visual for kids to know what they were supposed to be doing. I had a threshhold alarm that went off every time he got up. Each time, I would say, "clock is blue, go to sleep." At first, he still got up 8 times per night. In time, he would stay in bed more. In short order, he just stayed in bed (outside of pottying though that became rare also). After a few weeks, I gave him a time out (with the tot-clock) for not lying quietly, "trying to sleep" when the clock was blue (it was about 5 minutes before the clock was going to turn yellow...I wouldn't have done it for a night time thing "just in case"). He's done BEAUTIFULLY all but a few times in the last 11 months. BTW, bedwetting has ended too.

 

Tonight as I was putting her to bed, we talked over what are good reasons for getting out of bed in the middle of the night and what are bad reasons. I mixed silly in with serious. "If a purple hippopotamus knocks at your window, is it okay to get out of your bed?" "If you decide you want ice cream in the middle of the night, is it okay to get out of bed?" She liked this and liked coming up with ideas of what she would do in the silly situations. But, the tot-clock might be a good visual for her.

 

So, what's a threshold alarm?

 

The reason I'd focus on this first is simply because behavior is very much tied to getting enough sleep, having a regulated system, etc.

(I'd also discuss enuresis treatment with her, see if she is interested. My son wasn't at first and he really needed to be on board. But that will also likely help with sleep and how she feels about herself. However, money is a consideration depending on the method you use)

 

We tried an alarm at night and she hated it. Absolutely hated it. I decided that until she was ready, a pull-up at night was fine. She's supposed to put them in the kitchen trash in the morning because that gets emptied so often. And, if she leaks through, she washes her sheets. She still hides them 2-3 times per week though. Sometimes because of embarrassment, sometimes because she gets distracted. We just treat it matter-of-factly as something she's working on the same way we're all working on things. Everyone in the family is aware of it, but it's just not a big deal. Unless she hides it. Then Piper gets upset because it makes their room smell. So, I don't think she's ready to do anything about it. If I can just get her to stop hiding them...

 

2) Beyond Consequences. From the website, you can get to the email group on yahoo. The women there are AWESOME and just reading will help you sound it down into your mind and heart. But you are definitely welcome to ask questions for any help also. The books are available on kindle (phone, computer, etc) for $10 each. The classes are $200 (for ten weeks of 90 minute classes for two people) and they will gladly work with you for a payment plan. There are two sessions starting this winter. If you go to help-for-billy.com, you can read the first chapter of her newest book. Now, you may not need that book, but that first chapter is very helpful in terms of what this is about.

 

Thanks for this recommendation! I think I read this once upon a time. I'll check it out again.

[Cindy in C-ville]

I'd get her in therapy as soon as possible. She may have RAD but she may not. Your poor dd lost her only family and her country in a short space of time. Not to mention whatever horrors she went through in the orphanage, and being adopted and coming to the US. She has to be emotionally scarred.

 

All of her symptoms could very well be stemming from that trauma.

 

perhaps you can get her on state insurance soon. I think she needs a sleep study, a therapist and possibly a full work up and allergy testing.

 

In the meantime perhaps some melatonin and an elimination diet.

 

Thanks, Chucki! She does take melatonin about every three nights. I've been hesitant to have her take it every night. Thoughts?

 

And I know she's been through a lot of trauma, most likely more than I know of. I know there was bullying. I know that her potty issues began in the orphanage. She was bullied in the bathroom and decided she would never go in there again. That didn't work out so well and left her open to a tremendous amount of teasing, discomfort, and further bullying. We don't think that there was any SA, but there could have been and it's buried so deeply.

 

We've been providing her with as much stability and love as we can, but are facing the reality that it will take more. This is a hard pill to swallow, only because we are stretched so thin.

[Parrothead]

 

 

Thanks, Chucki! She does take melatonin about every three nights. I've been hesitant to have her take it every night. Thoughts?

 

And I know she's been through a lot of trauma, most likely more than I know of. I know there was bullying. I know that her potty issues began in the orphanage. She was bullied in the bathroom and decided she would never go in there again. That didn't work out so well and left her open to a tremendous amount of teasing, discomfort, and further bullying. We don't think that there was any SA, but there could have been and it's buried so deeply.

 

We've been providing her with as much stability and love as we can, but are facing the reality that it will take more. This is a hard pill to swallow, only because we are stretched so thin.

Sorry. Crazy iPad stuff.

 

I take. Sleep aid every night. It is not ideal but I don't want to try to live sleep deprived. It is the most unpleasant way to try to live. If one goes too long without sleep psychological oddities strut to occur. That is why I wouldn't jump so quick to a RAD diagnosis.

 

The sleep deprivation could be causing RAD behaviors. Or RAD could be causing sleep issues. Sleep deprivation is much easier to 'cure'.

 

And it may solve many of her problems.

 

As for the rest a good knowledgable therapist should help, if it isn't RAD. If she ends up with a

RADdiagnosis I can only offer a shoulder and a hug for you both.

[Cindy in C-ville]

I'm not sure what it's called there in NC, but is there any chance Katya might qualify for your state's CHIP (children's insurance program)?

 

Thanks for mentioning this. Several others have as well. Hadn't even thought of that!

[Cindy in C-ville]

Sounds like she may have GERD, too--

So sorry you have to go thru this, but I'm glad you are willing to and love her enough to get help.

Tons of hugs.

 

 

GERD. Yikes! Talk to me. What's this?

[Parrothead]

 

 

 

GERD. Yikes! Talk to me. What's this?

A fancy name for reflux disease. I have it too. ( one of many issues I have) it is easily managed with Zantac or Prevacid.

[LMV]

Hi Cindy,

 

I will agree with others who have suggested that this does sound like it could be RAD, or grief, or trauma/PTSD, or depression, anxiety or some mix of all or several of the above. I will also agree that inadequate sleep makes everything worse. I also recognize that some pediatricians are ill prepared to deal with much of this but some will surprise you. I will concede my own biases (I am a physician) but I do think that medical evaluation alongside the psychological evaluation/therapy would be the ideal scenario. If you happen to have a pediatrician now that does know your daughter that would be where I would start. If this person is clearly out of their scope then I would move on from there.

 

I think it can be hard for a child to come into an established family. It takes time to adapt and attach. We've certainly seen this with our daughter (who will have been with us for three years next month). In her case she was so horribly abused by her biological parents and there were trauma/PTSD issues we had to address and we had to learn how to adapt our parenting to be the parents she needed. What did encourage us with her was that we could see the connection deepen over time. This wasn't linear and there were definitely bumps and setbacks along the road but she has become our daughter. Now if we could only get the TPR to go through and go forth with the adoption. Our feelings will not change but we do see that she wants (and needs) that additional guarantee of security. We want that for her and for our family.

 

Best wishes and prayers of hope and healing.

 

P.S. *Although I think PTSD might be lower on my list of suspicions given what you have shared if this does end up being part of the picture please do reach out because we have found many useful resources over the years we would be happy to pass forward to another family.

[cin]

No doubt about the RAD, but could her diet be exacerbating her symptoms? We took DD off of red and yellow food coloring (red 40 is the biggie) and then realized how enraged it made her. We also put her on the omega oils (we use Carlson) and those help with her moods too. We still ended up with her on prozac for depression and anxiety but the first two made a HUGE difference. It might at least tide over until you can get her into treatment.

[LizzyBee]

Why would anyone go anywhere else for advice? I really am so appreciative and so thankful for all the hugs and prayers as well as advice.

 

One of the realities we've faced since we brought Katya home is a drastic reduction in income. Without going in to all the details, we are the classic case of not being financially better off now than we were four years ago. Job loss, no health insurance, short sell of our house, etc. As a result ... no therapy. None. Financially, we're doing a bit better now, but we still haven't financially recovered and don't have the finances to do what I'm afraid we need to do. We still don't have health insurance. As you can imagine, this is a huge stress.

 

I SO wish this wasn't a factor, but it is. So, help me prioritize.

 

From what many of you are saying, and what I'm sensing, the first thing, ideally, would be to find a therapist who specializes in attachment issues. Set up a consultation and see if we can swing the finances, if the therapist will work with us, etc. I think I also need some kind of a support group in my area (central NC). I've looked online, but haven't been able to find one.

 

If this is the right path, then how in the world do I go about finding a therapist? What questions do I ask? How do I talk about the finances? Up until now we have had no need for any type of specialists for ourselves or our kids, so this is uncharted water.

 

And, do you have any suggestions for how to find a support group?

 

Regarding the tackling it from every angle at the same time, I understand that. But the thought of it truly overwhelms me.

 

I have been looking at links, and will continue to do so.

 

What else am I missing? Other thoughts?

 

I cannot tell you how thankful I am for this "alongside community!"

 

Cindy,

 

I have a friend who has a daughter with RAD. They've been seeing a RAD therapist for over a year. I can find out who the therapist is if you want. My friend lives in Wake Forest, but I think the therapist is probably in Raleigh or Durham.

 

Is there any chance your kids would qualify for either medicaid or NC Health Choice?

 

Hugs to you,

Elizabeth

[Cindy in C-ville]

Cindy,

 

I have a friend who has a daughter with RAD. They've been seeing a RAD therapist for over a year. I can find out who the therapist is if you want. My friend lives in Wake Forest, but I think the therapist is probably in Raleigh or Durham.

 

Is there any chance your kids would qualify for either medicaid or NC Health Choice?

 

Hugs to you,

Elizabeth

 

 

 

Elizabeth,

 

That would be great. And, it's possible. I looked into that a little bit tonight, but a very little bit. I think the NC Health Choice may work. Thanks!!!

[Pamela H in Texas]

So, what's a threshold alarm?

 

Just an alarm that goes across an area and will go off when passed. Depending on your set up, you could put it across a doorway, in a hallway, across a bedroom, whatever. Some people don't want to "live like that." Others worry that the loud alarm will dysregulate a child more, especially as they are "caught." I feel like we have to do what we have to do to keep everyone safe as well as help them gain health. And our night time parenting helped in time. My ds, the one who was up multiple times per night, now sleeps through the night until the clock turns yellow (or beyond) almost all the time (and when he does wake before it, he lies quietly in bed). And his behavior is 300 times better. Though he still has behaviors, it isn't constant. It also isn't to the same extent. His behaviors were either dangerous or super silly. He also was EXTREMELY anxious, wetting himself as well as making up alternate scenarios (realities?) to a degree you'd never imagine a kid his age could do. It was WILD. Obviously, time, therapy, attachment therapy, theraputic parenting, etc helped. I just *really* believe night time parenting and fixing the sleep issues helped considerably also.

[Cindy in C-ville]

Hi Cindy,

 

I will agree with others who have suggested that this does sound like it could be RAD, or grief, or trauma/PTSD, or depression, anxiety or some mix of all or several of the above. I will also agree that inadequate sleep makes everything worse. I also recognize that some pediatricians are ill prepared to deal with much of this but some will surprise you. I will concede my own biases (I am a physician) but I do think that medical evaluation alongside the psychological evaluation/therapy would be the ideal scenario. If you happen to have a pediatrician now that does know your daughter that would be where I would start. If this person is clearly out of their scope then I would move on from there.

 

I think it can be hard for a child to come into an established family. It takes time to adapt and attach. We've certainly seen this with our daughter (who will have been with us for three years next month). In her case she was so horribly abused by her biological parents and there were trauma/PTSD issues we had to address and we had to learn how to adapt our parenting to be the parents she needed. What did encourage us with her was that we could see the connection deepen over time. This wasn't linear and there were definitely bumps and setbacks along the road but she has become our daughter. Now if we could only get the TPR to go through and go forth with the adoption. Our feelings will not change but we do see that she wants (and needs) that additional guarantee of security. We want that for her and for our family.

 

Best wishes and prayers of hope and healing.

 

P.S. *Although I think PTSD might be lower on my list of suspicions given what you have shared if this does end up being part of the picture please do reach out because we have found many useful resources over the years we would be happy to pass forward to another family.

 

 

Thank you! We don't yet have a regular family doctor yet. We had a fantastic doctor in C-ville, whose wife is one of my dear friends and was around here quite a bit ... once upon a time. We miss him terribly. Our insurance situation has been the biggest barrier, but I'm hopeful we'll get resolution on this soon, whether through NC Health Choice or through private insurance.

 

And thanks for sharing a bit of your journey. We have friends in VA who are in a similar situation with three precious girls they welcomed into their home. It is taking YEARS to wade through the legal stuff. My friends very much consider themselves the parents, and the girls consider them parents as well. But I think they all need that security.

 

And thank you for your prayers as well! Much appreciated!!!