If you're the praying sort, I would appreciate some support

[Ginevra]

I don't want this to come across as a dh-bash and I don't want to break board rules. I am at odds with dh about our son's wrestling and I really need dh to come to his senses.

 

Dh is a great athlete and was a state champ wrestler back in the day. Naturally, like all wrestling dads, he had grand visions of his sons following in his footsteps. Our oldest son trooped through two years of wrestling when he was younger, but never liked it. He is a very agreeable sort of child and kept going, but always would say he didn't want to wrestle and didn't like it. After two years, dh conceded that perhaps that son was not cut out for it and he let it go.

 

But of course, you know where that leaves us now with younger ds. He is in his second year of wrestling and hates it. He has more natural athletic potential than our older ds, and I know how dh sees it - this is dh's "last chance" to have a wrestling son. I am very concerned that this dynamic is going badly. Ds was literally crying this morning as dh was trying to act chipper about going to wrestle. Now - I will say that I am a believer in having kids tough through a season in a sport, even if they are having a hard time with it, but this should be the last season of wrestling unless one of the kids wants to do it in the future and asks to. I know, though, that dh has grandiose visions of ds being a great wrestler. Adding to the problem is that dh knows the coach/commissioner of this team from high school and I know that dh feels some obligation to the guy - like, dh couldn't bear to be the dad who lets his son quit over the first shed tears, kwim? I do not like the commissioner AT ALL - I think he is just the sort of "d*ck-head dad" that I have always detested in sports. Dh and I used to be on the same page about those sort of dads who want glory through their kids athletic performance, but now I feel that my dh is becoming like that because this is his "last chance."

 

I sent dh a text because I couldn't discuss ds' tears with him as they were on their way out the door. I texted him to "Be compassionate towards M; he was crying this morning." I really just want dh to be able to see what's happening objectively, even if it means giving up his own dreams of having a wrestler son. I am concerned at this point that it's damaging the father-son relationship now. If you're inclined to pray about it, this is really all I can hope for at the moment - that he has some divine realization about how he needs to proceed.

 

Thanks for listening.

[Reya]

I'd finish out the season first. Then convince DH that DS should be able to decide for himself.

[Faithr]

Prayers! I hate icky situations like that and being caught in the middle!

[Impish]

:grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

[elegantlion]

Oh, hard, definitely I'll be thinking of you and him.

 

I can see a man going to the other end and saying he will stay in a sport simply because he doesn't want his son to be a cry-baby. Not that I agree, but I can see them using that as an argument.

 

Perhaps you could find a viable "manly" alternative. Scouts? Another sport? This would give your dh and out too. He could say that ds wanted to pursue X in stead of wrestling. Changing focus is perceived differently than quitting.

 

Perhaps you could get ds to articulate a reason he wants to quit.

 

Then there are those prayers (BTDT) when you say, "God, could you please change dh's heart about this. Because if you don't soon, I'm going to try and, dear Lord, you know that never ends well."

[Chris in VA]

My middle son wrestled for a season, and dh was a wrestler--different than your dilemma, because ds loved it.

 

But I have to say, wrestling is a painful, demanding sport. IT HURTS.

 

If a 12 year old boy did not want to do it, I'd stop immediately.

 

It would be a hill to die on between me and dh.

[Tammyla]

I'll pray for the three of you, and I'm in agreement with Chris and El.

[Caitilin]

I'll pray for the three of you, and I'm in agreement with Chris and El.

 

Totally agreeing here. Hell would freeze over before I'd let that go on. :grouphug:, Quill.

[Catwoman]

Ummm.... your ds was CRYING, yet both you and your dh made him go to wrestling??? :eek:

 

Sorry, but you don't need prayers; you need a backbone.

 

You know I don't intend that in a mean way, Quill. You're just about the nicest person in the world. The thing is, you're putting your dh's feelings over your ds's, and in this case, I think that thought is misguided. Your dh is an adult. He needs to be able to handle the fact that his kid doesn't want to be Big Deal Wrestler Boy. Your ds is just a kid, and he's being forced to do something he dislikes so much that he CRIES about it.

 

Stop for a second and picture this from your ds's point of view, and realize that the father-son relationship is being damaged, not just because your dh is being unreasonable, but also because you are not stepping up to the plate and defending your ds. If you don't let him quit (and ideally, that option should be given to him by your dh, so your ds doesn't feel that he's disappointing his dad,) your ds is going to resent his father -- and possibly also have problems with worrying that he's not good enough to meet up to his father's expectations. Your ds may also start to think that you don't care enough to stand up to his father on his behalf -- and that would be truly awful, because those aren't your intentions at all.

 

Ideally, your dh needs to casually tell your ds that he thinks he gave wrestling a good try, but that maybe it's time to pack it in. Your dh needs your sons to know that, just as wrestling was "his thing" as he was growing up, the boys will find "their things" that they love to do, and that both of his parents will support them in whatever they choose to do.

 

Again, please don't be offended. I know that both you and your dh want what's best for your boys. I just think your dh is letting his hopes and dreams get in the way of reality, and I think you feel so sorry for your dh that his sons haven't followed in his footsteps, that you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place. I truly understand that, but I think you need to advocate for your ds, and to remember that even if your dh won't agree to let him quit, you're his mom, and you can let him quit.

 

FWIW, this wouldn't be an issue at my house. If my ds was crying about having to go to an activity, that would have been the end of that activity, whether my dh liked it or not. It's not like the world will end if a kid quits wrestling. He gave it a shot. He didn't like it. Done. Over. Finished. Nice try. Didn't work out -- let's find something else.

 

:grouphug:

[Guest]

Cat, I'm not offended by your post, but I'm not sure you appreciate the difficulty. For one thing, wrestling induces crying - it is an absolute fact of the sport. Every young wrestler cries and a fair number of older wrestlers cry. Almost every wrestler who gets beat in a match comes off crying. Tears over reluctance to wrestle is the oldest story in the sport. Having said that - I am very bothered that ds was crying today about the prospect of leaving to go wrestle. BUT I'm not going to challenge dh as they're heading out the door, pointing out that he was crying. This would tell ds that he doesn't have to overcome anything difficult and that tears are the magic wand to get out of any problem. It would also undermine dh if I said, "Hey, bucko! He's crying and that's it - he's not going to wrestle." All that would do with my dh is make him dig in harder. If there's one thing I've learned in my 18 years of marriage, it's that a soft answer turns away wrath. Dh can be extraordinarily stubborn. I expect that my text to dh probably went to his heart in a way that an angry, "He's not going anywhere!" would not.

 

I don't feel sorry for dh in not getting his "dream wrestler" out of his children; it's just that I can see that that's where his hard-headedness about it is coming from.

 

I agree with you about ds finding "his thing(s)"; it is something I have told dh a dozen times. Dh is so hung up on wrestling because of all the benefits wrestling bestowed upon his life and he is short-sighted in realizing that that is true of *any* passion a person finds for their lives. Dh is reluctant to see the truth of that. This is truly what I want him to realize, and he will not realize it because I say it, or he would get it already.

 

When you say that I can let him quit even if dh doesn't - no, I'm sorry, but that is not true. In a battle of wills, dh will win. I don't take ds to wrestling. I could not prevent him going unless I syphoned dh's gasoline or buried his keys in the yard, kwim? I can point out the harm that I believe is being done, which I have done and will be doing further later today or tomorrow, when we are alone. But I cannot insist that ds is done; wrestling is over and he's not going anymore. i don't have the power to prevent dh taking him anyway and, as I said, if I clash that directly with dh, he will win.

[Durriyyah]

:grouphug: :grouphug:

[Heatherwith4]

:grouphug:

[Annie G]

I had no idea crying was so common with wrestlers! In a lot of ways, that makes it even more difficult to convince dh that ds doesn't want to wrestle....tears? So what? All the kids cry at some point! I can hear that conversation.

 

No advice, but hugs to you. Around here, wrestling season just started and it'll go on for months. If it's just started for your son, you have a tough couple of months ahead. It's not like you're at the end and he only has one more event to attend.

 

Hope dh listens to your words...it's hard for him too I expect.

[Catwoman]

When you say that I can let him quit even if dh doesn't - no, I'm sorry, but that is not true. In a battle of wills, dh will win. I don't take ds to wrestling. I could not prevent him going unless I syphoned dh's gasoline or buried his keys in the yard, kwim? I can point out the harm that I believe is being done, which I have done and will be doing further later today or tomorrow, when we are alone. But I cannot insist that ds is done; wrestling is over and he's not going anymore. i don't have the power to prevent dh taking him anyway and, as I said, if I clash that directly with dh, he will win.

 

 

Why will he win? :confused:

 

Don't you have an equal say in the decisions that are made for and about your ds? Why is this solely your dh's decision? I'm not trying to be snarky; I truly just don't understand.

 

My feeling is that if I feel strongly about something involving my ds, I will win. Period. Whatever it takes.

[JudoMom]

Quill, I think you are handeling this with grace. I'll pray for the best decision/outcome for your son, whether it involves wrestling or not.

[Catwoman]

Then it's not really an equal say between you and your DH is it? It's not a matter of two adults coming together at a conclusion and a decision in which both have some give and take, but rather a power game of who has the bigger "will."

 

ETA: This is not a case of abuse. Plenty of fathers want their children to participate in sports that they don't want to participate in and plenty of mothers do to for that matter. They may be wrong, but it's not a hill to die on. This is a parenting dispute where one party is trying to move in such a way that preserves marital harmony based on her experience of being married to the father of her children for 18 years.

 

Quill, I don't want to hijack your thread, if you want me to delete this I will. :grouphug:

 

Well, my dh wouldn't insist that our ds participate in an activity he hated, whatever hopes and dreams dh may have secretly harbored about it, so we have never had this type of disagreement. BUT... if my ds was very upset about "having" to participate in something he hated, just to boost my dh's ego, you can bet I would win that dispute. And if that was enough to destroy our "marital harmony," I would have to assume that there was a lot more going on in the marriage than a problem over kids' wrestling.

 

This isn't a case of Quill having an equal say. It doesn't sound like she is in a position of "two adults coming together at a conclusion in which both have some give and take," if she feels that she needs to post here for prayers that her dh will change his mind. In my marriage, dh and I would hash things out and make a decision, but if I were in a situation where I had a dh who wasn't doing that, I would feel no need to submit to his wishes and just pray that he'd change his mind. My ds's needs would come way ahead of a spouse's ego, and I guess we'll have to disagree about whether or not it's a hill to die on, because IMO, my child's emotional well-being and stress level are too important to back down about it.

 

Marital harmony is great, but not if it's at the expense of one spouse always having to give in to the other one. (And I'm just speaking generally here -- I'm not talking about Quill's situation -- I have no idea whether her dh is unreasonable about other issues. My assumption was that he's a pretty great guy, but is missing the forest for the trees in this particular situation.)

[Chris in VA]

I disagree with your statement that almost every wrestler who gets defeated cries.

 

I've attended my fair share of matches. NEVER saw it. Not to say it doesn't happen, but even at the high school level, it's not as common as you are portraying.

 

Maybe when they are 12.

 

YMMV, but personally, I would not put a kid in a sport where grown men cry because they are in pain. Sorry.

 

I do appreciate that you are trying to do best by your husband and your boy, I really do, but I can't say strongly enough how much I think you need to talk to your husband and get thru to him.

[Parrothead]

I'll keep my opinion to myself, and simply pray for God's will for your family. :grouphug:

[besroma]

 

 

But I have to say, wrestling is a painful, demanding sport. IT HURTS.

 

If a 12 year old boy did not want to do it, I'd stop immediately.

 

It would be a hill to die on between me and dh.

 

I agree. We have been through similar before....being concerned about allowing a child to "quit." I wish we had let him quit sooner.

 

He remembers vividly having to continue something he really did not want to be a part of. It is *so* hard to make the decision.

 

If I had a do over, I would have let him quit a lot earlier and watched for a trend in his trying to quit rather than being so concerned about it in the beginning before he even had a chance to prove that he would stick to something.

 

Regarding DH, I will be praying for you.

[mumto2]

I will be praying for you. I do understand the situation you are in. :grouphug:

[Guest]

Why will he win? :confused:

 

Don't you have an equal say in the decisions that are made for and about your ds? Why is this solely your dh's decision? I'm not trying to be snarky; I truly just don't understand.

 

My feeling is that if I feel strongly about something involving my ds, I will win. Period. Whatever it takes.

 

 

He will win because he will take him to wrestling. It's not that it's solely my dh's decision, but it isn't solely mine, either. If I said, "No more wrestling. I can't abide ds being unhappy about it," dh would not say, "Oh, okay." He is aware, well aware, that I am not in support of wrestling at this point. He will only become more aware, because we'll be talking about it yet again because of the tears this morning. But he would say that he feels strongly that ds can overcome the hardship of wrestling to get to the benefits (as he sees them). Therefore, I cannot just unilaterally decide that wrestling is over and think that dh is going to abide by that. Our marriage doesn't work like that.

 

 

I disagree with your statement that almost every wrestler who gets defeated cries.

 

I've attended my fair share of matches. NEVER saw it. Not to say it doesn't happen, but even at the high school level, it's not as common as you are portraying.

 

Maybe when they are 12.

 

YMMV, but personally, I would not put a kid in a sport where grown men cry because they are in pain. Sorry.

 

I do appreciate that you are trying to do best by your husband and your boy, I really do, but I can't say strongly enough how much I think you need to talk to your husband and get thru to him.

 

 

The son I'm speaking of is 8 and has been wrestling for two years. This is the same age my older (now 13) yods was when he wrestled. Tears have been a constant factor for many, many kids in every tournament and match I've attended. When the coach meets with the parents at the beginning of the season, he always says, "Understand this: your kid will cry. Almost every boy cries a couple of times during the season and the mothers are often upset about it, but that is the way this sport is. Your son will cry."

 

Anyway...I guess your experience was different, but I've seen uncountable crying kids in wrestling and I've even seen tears at high school matches when I was a teenager and dated a wrestler.

[Rosie_0801]

When will he be allowed to quit? Maybe it will be a little easier on the boy if there is a definite end date?

[bettyandbob]

I didn't get my dream swimmer. I'm not at home in a dojo or a ballet studio, but I'm ok. The rule I had was dc needed to do a sport every season for exercise ( it started as a way to get some physical therapy for oldest). They tried many different sports until they found what they liked. I also make dc finish whatever they start--if they chose the activity. your ds did not choose wrestling. I'd give him a choice and let him drop it if he wanted. I'd look at the choices for sports that were available, depending on location cost etc and let ds choose another sport to try.

 

Anyway, you asked for prayer. I will pray things work out for your dh and ds.

 

[lllll]

praying

[Barb_]

This really isn't between you and your husband, is it? It's between your son and your husband, I think. Has your son told his dad how he feels about wrestling? He should be able to say, "Dad, I'm going to finish out the season but I won't sign on for another year of wrestling." It's his body, right?

[8circles]

I think this isn't really comparable to just any other sport. Wrestling is about one-on-one fighting. Your DH is forcing your child to physically fight someone and he is unilaterally making he decision that your ds will continue. What an awful situation.

 

I understand that you don't think it would be right for you to unilaterally say your ds isn't going anymore, that it wouldn't be fair that way either. I think that sometimes the way to be fair is to say that the person saying "no" wins. I will pray for the situation and that God's will be done here. I'm very concerned because this kind of thing can really damage parent/child relationships... and your relationship with your DS could become collateral damage.

[Corraleno]

No advice, just support: :grouphug: :grouphug: :grouphug:

 

Jackie

[Chris in VA]

 

 

 

The son I'm speaking of is 8 and has been wrestling for two years. This is the same age my older (now 13) yods was when he wrestled. Tears have been a constant factor for many, many kids in every tournament and match I've attended. When the coach meets with the parents at the beginning of the season, he always says, "Understand this: your kid will cry. Almost every boy cries a couple of times during the season and the mothers are often upset about it, but that is the way this sport is. Your son will cry."

 

Anyway...I guess your experience was different, but I've seen uncountable crying kids in wrestling and I've even seen tears at high school matches when I was a teenager and dated a wrestler.

 

 

Oh, sorry--I don't mean to be snarky AT ALL, but even tho I read your post and did realize you were talking about your second son, I think my brain must've skipped to the 12 yo in your post because I've never heard of wrestling starting at 8yo. It's not part of the sports culture here. Of course there would be crying--that would be a developmentally appropriate response to what happens. They are not crying only because they are upset they lost. They are also or, imo, probably mostly, crying because they just went thru something physically painful and emotionally intense, and even instinctually intense, because, as a previous poster said, it is one-on-one fighting, and there's got to be a psychological response to that sort of thing that kicks in.

 

Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to have an 8 yo in wrestling. There is just too much potential for injury with undeveloped ligaments, musculature and bones. The pressure/torque/whatever you call it seems like it just wouldn't be healthy for such a growing body. On top of that, the intensity is just different from soccer or baseball or track. It just feels too young. I feel the same way about certain other sports, but after seeing the stuff ds came home with and what his teammates went thru, I just couldn't do it.

 

I really do understand about your husband, at least I think so, and I will pray for you guys.

And I'll bow out, because I rarely post 3 times in a thread, making essentially the same point.

[Reya]

He's seven. Seven-year-olds cry. I wouldn't say she "needs a backbone" on that evidence. At seven, my oldest would occasionally cry about cleaning his room or finishing his work.

[Guest]

This really isn't between you and your husband, is it? It's between your son and your husband, I think. Has your son told his dad how he feels about wrestling? He should be able to say, "Dad, I'm going to finish out the season but I won't sign on for another year of wrestling." It's his body, right?

 

 

Ds has told his dad he doesn't want to wrestle many times. Ds just turned 8; he is not remotely at a point of maturity where he could make a statement like you said above. Because of his age, it is more between my husband and myself, because ds is still at an age where most of his time is structured by us.

 

I think this isn't really comparable to just any other sport. Wrestling is about one-on-one fighting. Your DH is forcing your child to physically fight someone and he is unilaterally making he decision that your ds will continue. What an awful situation.

 

I understand that you don't think it would be right for you to unilaterally say your ds isn't going anymore, that it wouldn't be fair that way either. I think that sometimes the way to be fair is to say that the person saying "no" wins. I will pray for the situation and that God's will be done here. I'm very concerned because this kind of thing can really damage parent/child relationships... and your relationship with your DS could become collateral damage.

 

 

Well, the bolded part is at the crux of my problem - it does come down to how a marriage works it out when there is a direct difference of opinion about something that contains no middle ground. I'm not a believer in "the 'no' wins" as a conflict resolution; it's not a policy we have in our marriage and it's not a policy I believe is useful or effective. It's still Win/Lose where the person whose opinion is based on inaction wins.

 

Personally, I've never discovered a way to resolve certain types of differences in a marriage. If you have two people who strongly believe opposite things, one or the other will eventually win their position. There are some problems that have no compromise; they are A or B. This is one of those. Ds wrestles for some indefinite amount of time into the future or he stops at some definite time. If I knew a way to make it go the way I want, I would not ask for prayers. The only reason I asked for prayers is because I recognize that I cannot make it go as I would like just because I want it to; therefore, I see it as something that may only change if God involves himself in the problem.

 

Oh, sorry--I don't mean to be snarky AT ALL, but even tho I read your post and did realize you were talking about your second son, I think my brain must've skipped to the 12 yo in your post because I've never heard of wrestling starting at 8yo. It's not part of the sports culture here. Of course there would be crying--that would be a developmentally appropriate response to what happens. They are not crying only because they are upset they lost. They are also or, imo, probably mostly, crying because they just went thru something physically painful and emotionally intense, and even instinctually intense, because, as a previous poster said, it is one-on-one fighting, and there's got to be a psychological response to that sort of thing that kicks in.

 

Honestly, I don't think it's a good idea to have an 8 yo in wrestling. There is just too much potential for injury with undeveloped ligaments, musculature and bones. The pressure/torque/whatever you call it seems like it just wouldn't be healthy for such a growing body. On top of that, the intensity is just different from soccer or baseball or track. It just feels too young. I feel the same way about certain other sports, but after seeing the stuff ds came home with and what his teammates went thru, I just couldn't do it.

 

I really do understand about your husband, at least I think so, and I will pray for you guys.

And I'll bow out, because I rarely post 3 times in a thread, making essentially the same point.

 

 

I didn't read your comment as snarky. No harm done. I was clarifying that my experience has been very different and I have seen many tears. Wrestling starts at 5 or 6 around here. Obviously, wrestling is significantly different from common team sports.

 

I should mention that I am not inherently opposed to wrestling. Wrestlers are often in incredibly good physical condition. It is similar in physical effect to gymnastics - and the potential for injury is also comparable to gymnastics. I would also agree with dh that there is a disciplined aspect to wrestling that is uncommon in other sports and that IS something I desire for my sons. The only point of contention for me is that I believe that once they have given it a good effort, they can choose not to pursue it in the future. In general, dh has agreed with me on that point; it is why he let it go with my older son. I know, though, that it's harder for him to "see the light" and let it go with ds8 because that is his youngest child and his last son. It is also harder now because he is on the particular team with his high school "friend" and I know it would be more difficult for him to face up to the commissioner and say he "let ds quit."

 

He's seven. Seven-year-olds cry. I wouldn't say she "needs a backbone" on that evidence. At seven, my oldest would occasionally cry about cleaning his room or finishing his work.

 

 

He is 8 now; I need to fix my siggy, but you are making a good point.

 

I know I'm going on way too long, but I want to bring up one more thing. When ds came home from that tournament, he was in great high spirits. The tears from the morning did not appear to have carried through the day at all. Now - he was having a friend sleeping over, so maybe all of his focus was on that and so tears were forgotten. But, in any case, he appeared right as rain, though he spent several hours at a wrestling tournament and only won one of four matches. This sort of thing does make me think I may be thinking too much like a girl about wrestling and dh is more correct than I think.

[Barb_]

Misunderstood. Thought it was your 12yo. Carry on.

[LG Gone Wild]

Welllll ... your husband sounds kind of ridiculous. If he loves wrestling so much he such just do it himself. Wrestling is NOT for every talented child. Besides, your son could hate it now and like it later in life. If your son is talented in wrestling, he might be talented in some other sport.

 

Wrestling is a GRIND and if you don't love it or have the desire to stick with, it. totally. #$%ing. SUCKS.

[briansmama]

I too would make this my hill to die on. My boys will never be forced to participate in a sport against their will. No way.

 

Mine are both very athletic and LOVE sports- in fact, they spend more time convincing me they are not hurting or over-exerting themselves so I won't keep them home from practice. If they participated in a sport where tears were inevitable, they would be trying to convince me that they were ok so they could continue. Your ds isn't doing this- he wants to stop. He needs you to advocate for him.

 

I also have to add that I probably wouldn't allow my ds to participate in a sport that made him cry even if he wanted to.

[Catwoman]

I understand now that Quill doesn't feel she is able to force the issue of her ds quitting wrestling, but what I don't understand is why her ds doesn't seem to have any say in the matter. :confused:

[Barb_]

 

 

The child is eight years old. There is nothing inherently wrong about making a boy participate in a sport or extra-curricular activity for reasons a parent feels would benefit the child (discipline, etc), though it is not always the most prudent thing to do and the parent is not always honest about the fact that the best interest of the child are foremost on their mind. Some parents decide to send their kids to military school at this age, does the kid usually have a say in the matter? There were a lot of discussions about Tiger Mother a while back, but is forcing her children to learn piano and violin actually wrong? It might not be a choice you or I make, but the fact is it is well within the parent's sphere of influence.

 

I think one if the more important take home points from the tiger mother book was while she was able to force her will on her less headstrong child, her relationship with her younger one was seriously damaged.

[Catwoman]

The child is eight years old. There is nothing inherently wrong about making a boy participate in a sport or extra-curricular activity for reasons a parent feels would benefit the child (discipline, etc), though it is not always the most prudent thing to do and the parent is not always honest about the fact that the best interest of the child are foremost on their mind. Some parents decide to send their kids to military school at this age, does the kid usually have a say in the matter? There were a lot of discussions about Tiger Mother a while back, but is forcing her children to learn piano and violin actually wrong? It might not be a choice you or I make, but the fact is it is well within the parent's sphere of influence.

 

 

I disagree.

 

I don't even believe that you should force a child to try a new sport (or whatever) if he or she expresses no interest in it, or has a definite preference against it. I don't think it serves any positive purpose. Why should anyone be forced to do something they don't want to do?

 

If there is nothing "inherently wrong" about making an 8yo child participate in a sport or activity in which he child has no interest, at what age should the kid have a say in the matter? :confused: (And I realize that you wouldn't force your own kid to wrestle, so I mean this generally, not specific to you or your own child.)

[Catwoman]

 

Okay, by that reasoning how can a parent force a child be educated at all? Traditionally education was seen as not just the 3Rs, but as "raising a child." In fact, the French still use the word, "l'education" to mean "upbringing." Sports, extra-curriculars, etc are an extension of Reading, Writing and Arithmetic in that they help form a child's character and expand their interests. They are, like discipline within the home, yet another prong in the development of a well rounded child. And that's not to say that they are necessary, but they can be useful and deemed important in any particular family.

 

I realize this is old fashioned: but I would like for my girls to develop poise, grace and good posture and I believe that those things are simply an extension of the education we are providing for them. Thankfully, Ladybug has been wanting to dance for as long as she could walk, but if she did not, I would still insist that she do some sort of activity (dance, yoga, cotillion or whatever) at some point that would help her develop those attributes. You may disagree with my decisions for my children but in no way are they wrong: they are simply prudential judgements made my husband and I as parents. Personally, I believe these things are worth doing for their own sakes and I hope my children discover that, but until then I'll settle for utilitarian motives :)

 

As far as age, again that's a prudential decision on the part of the parents. Technically, if something is not abusive the parent has a wide range of things that they can make the judgement call on until their child reaches adulthood.

 

 

 

I hardly think forcing an 8yo child to go to wrestling equates in any way with "forcing" a child to be educated. :glare:

 

Sports and other extra-curriculars are just that -- EXTRA. If a child wants to try them, by all means, let them have a go at whichever ones are of interest to him, but to force the issue just because the parent thinks it's important? Sorry, but that means it's all about what the parent wants, and not considering the wishes of the child, which I believe is just plain wrong.

 

And FWIW, many young ladies are perfectly poised and have lovely posture and carriage, without ever having stepped foot into a dance studio, or having been forced to take any sort of specialized lessons --- and I know quite a few young ladies who took years of dance lessons when they were young, and you can still hear them clomping around all they way from the other end of the house. ;) I'm glad your girls like their dance lessons, but if they didn't, and you forced them to participate anyway, I would consider that to be silly and unnecessary.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one! :)

[Spy Car]

I'm not the praying sort, but I'd let the boy and his father handle it.

 

Bill

[Heather in Neverland]

He is an 8yo boy... he is not going to win an argument with his father. He needs an advocate...someone to speak for him...his mom.

 

Now, my questions would be WHY does he cry when it is time to go to wrestling? WHY does he hate it so much? you need to get to the crux of the issue.

 

My 14yo ds argued with me about going to piano lessons every week for 6 years but I would not let him quit. Now he loves it and he is so glad I made him go. I made him go because i knew the only reason he wanted to quit was because he was being lazy, didn't want to practice, would rather play video games, etc.

 

However, when we signed him up for sports it was a different story. He is not an athletic child. He hated it because he was uncoordinated and miserable and felt humiliated and other kids made fun of him, etc. So we let him quit.

 

I don't think there should be a "kids should never quit anything ever" rule or a "kids should be allowed to quit whatever whenever" rule. It depends on the kid and the activity.

 

Get to the bottom of why he hates it so much then tell your dh to stop living his dreams through his son. He had his turn. It's his son's turn to be his own person now.

[houseofkids&pets]

We have a similar situation here, except it is baseball not wrestling. Our youngest DS just had a starring role in the Christmas play at our church. It was really an eye opening experience to DH that our DS was excited to go to every play practice. He would run for his jacket and shoes and be out the door before DH. When DS has to get ready for baseball practice, he often cries and goes as slow as possible. My DH now realizes that his son has different interests than him and that is ok. It has been difficult for him to accept that DS doesn't want to be a star baseball player, but seeing the joy DS felt when he was part of the play really helped him to understand that it is not fair to force his love of baseball on his son.

 

I agree with previous posters that if your DS is this unhappy in such a physical sport, I would let him quit and help guide him to find what he enjoys. I would encourage DH to realize that even though he loves wrestling, this is not about him. Your DS needs the chance to find his own niche where he will thrive and feel happy. Praying for you and your family. I know that this can be a difficult situation.

[Donna]

Hi, Quill :grouphug: .

 

I have two boys who started wrestling at 5yo. My oldest loves the sport and my youngest wrestled for 3 years then wanted to quit because he just did not like the physical confrontation aspect. (He's a lover, not a fighter.) My father coached my oldest for a few years when he was younger but the dynamic became wrong with my father yelling when DS lost so much so that DS became nervous just going out on the mat because he knew when he came off, there would be my father to deal with. My husband and I had to ask my father to stop coaching and I did the running and coaching at tournaments until DS hit high school. When DS came off the mat, I was there to give him a hug whether he won or lost. Later, at home, we could go over the video of the match and look for ways to improve.

 

My oldest is a wonderful high school wrestler now...will hit his 100th win sometime this year as a junior, wrestles all year round, does national tournaments, lifting weights, eating right, etc... My younger DS decided this year, as a freshman, to go out for the wrestling team after not having wrestled since he was 7yo. He is doing it for the exercise and the fun of being part of the team.

 

I would suggest figuring out the reason why your DS does not like wrestling. It is an intense sport which requires dedication and a lot of work to be successful. Does he just not like the physical aspects of "fighting" someone one-on-one? Or is there a bad dynamic when he does not do as well as dad expects him to do. Does your DS not like letting his father down or his reaction when he does?

 

If the first is the case, I see no reason for him to continue with the sport at least at a competitive level. Could he just go to practice and learn the moves without competing in matches? That way his body learns how to move and he still stays in it at least for the season. At some age, he may decide he might like to go back and it is hard to do when others have done it all their lives. Or maybe try a different sport with similar benefits like judo or another martial art? I honestly don't see why the younger has to suffer through something he doesn't like when the older was able to make a choice.

 

If it is dad's reactions making him cry, then that dynamic needs to change. I have seen way too many kids burn out young because their fathers put too much pressure on them when they were young. Once you are in high school, no one cares what you did in wrestling as an 8yo. My oldest DS was a good wrestler when he was young but he didn't win everything...my main goal was to keep it fun for him and it worked because he is still peaking and loving every minute of it while many other kids, who were superstars in the midget programs with high pressure dads forcing weight cutting and yelling/screaming, are now losing to him.

 

Wishing you all the best.

[Guest]

Okay, by that reasoning how can a parent force a child be educated at all? Traditionally education was seen as not just the 3Rs, but as "raising a child." In fact, the French still use the word, "l'education" to mean "upbringing." Sports, extra-curriculars, etc are an extension of Reading, Writing and Arithmetic in that they help form a child's character and expand their interests. They are, like discipline within the home, yet another prong in the development of a well rounded child. And that's not to say that they are necessary, but they can be useful and deemed important in any particular family.

 

I realize this is old fashioned: but I would like for my girls to develop poise, grace and good posture and I believe that those things are simply an extension of the education we are providing for them. Thankfully, Ladybug has been wanting to dance for as long as she could walk, but if she did not, I would still insist that she do some sort of activity (dance, yoga, cotillion or whatever) at some point that would help her develop those attributes. You may disagree with my decisions for my children but in no way are they wrong: they are simply prudential judgements made my husband and I as parents. Personally, I believe these things are worth doing for their own sakes and I hope my children discover that, but until then I'll settle for utilitarian motives :)

 

As far as age, again that's a prudential decision on the part of the parents. Technically, if something is not abusive the parent has a wide range of things that they can make the judgement call on until their child reaches adulthood.

 

ltlmrs - you seem to understand this situation very closely to how I understand it.

 

I do think there are things to make a child try and see through until the end of the class/season/whatever. I have done that with piano, for example, and other sports - soccer, baseball, volleyball, swimming. My oldest child probably would never have asked to play soccer, but she ended up thankful that she played. She is artistic and musical and doesn't gravitate to sports as a matter of course, but participating in sports benefited her in many ways - physical exercise, team cooperation, team camaraderie, learning to accept disappointment and defeat, learning to take instruction from a coach and learning to cope with unpleasant/unfair/jerkish refs, opposing players and players parents. Obviously, soccer is very different from wrestling, though and there were not tears over having to play.

 

He is an 8yo boy... he is not going to win an argument with his father. He needs an advocate...someone to speak for him...his mom.

 

Now, my questions would be WHY does he cry when it is time to go to wrestling? WHY does he hate it so much? you need to get to the crux of the issue.

 

My 14yo ds argued with me about going to piano lessons every week for 6 years but I would not let him quit. Now he loves it and he is so glad I made him go. I made him go because i knew the only reason he wanted to quit was because he was being lazy, didn't want to practice, would rather play video games, etc.

 

However, when we signed him up for sports it was a different story. He is not an athletic child. He hated it because he was uncoordinated and miserable and felt humiliated and other kids made fun of him, etc. So we let him quit.

 

I don't think there should be a "kids should never quit anything ever" rule or a "kids should be allowed to quit whatever whenever" rule. It depends on the kid and the activity.

 

Get to the bottom of why he hates it so much then tell your dh to stop living his dreams through his son. He had his turn. It's his son's turn to be his own person now.

 

Because it's hard. That is why he doesn't want to wrestle and that is probably part of why dh wants him to overcome it. It is easier to play video games. My older son didn't like it because he doesn't like the "beat or be beaten" element; he doesn't care about subduing another kid, but doesn't want to be subdued, either. He doesn't have a fighter personality. Youngest ds does have the personality to "beat or be beaten." But by the same token, youngest ds is also a LOT more resistant to being told "what to do." Dh believes M doesn't want to wrestle because he doesn't want to be told what to do. (It doesn't take a psychologist to notice they are cut from the same cloth and that is why the head-butting is happening.) Dh wants ds to overcome the "this is hard" part of it. In principal, I do agree with that to a point, I just believe we have gone past the point now.

 

I do see the possibility that M would want to wrestle in the future, if the current disputes over it don't sour him on it permanently. That is the angle I will be using in talking to dh.

 

For the record, I'm not hoping or wanting ds to quit wrestling right now. I just don't think it should continue after this season.

[Heather in Neverland]

 

I do see the possibility that M would want to wrestle in the future, if the current disputes over it don't sour him on it permanently. That is the angle I will be using in talking to dh.

 

For the record, I'm not hoping or wanting ds to quit wrestling right now. I just don't think it should continue after this season.

 

I think this is a very wise approach. He finishes the season to honor his commitment. You let him take time off from wrestling for now until he is a little older and he might possibly appreciate it more ( he is only 8yo, he has plenty of time!). Maybe when he matures a bit he will decide he wants to try again or maybe he will fall in love with a different sport.

 

[Spy Car]

Imagine the father comes home and finds his 8 year old son crying over doing Latin lessons (or piano or math).

 

And perhaps it means the world to you that the boy receives a classical education, and you feel Latin (despite the dear boy's tears) is a priority and something not to be dropped prematurely. Or maybe it is piano. Or math.

 

What if the dear husband came home to tears and said, "I don't think the whole homeschooling thing is working out" and his anti- homeschooling buddies were telling him, "clearly the boy needs and advocate" or "grow a backbone and shut this down"?

 

I can imagine the reaction to that!

 

Fathers and sons have dynamics that (barring true abuse—which this is not) need to play themselves out. If the Dad was a State champion wrestler (which he was) then he obviously has a high level of skill and expertise in a sport where technique is at a premium and he has a passion to share. That he want to share with his son is a good thing.

 

Fathers enjoy sharing skills were they excel with their sons. It could be sports, or wood-working, or auto-mechanics, or what-ever. That is the natural order of things. It does not always work out, but Dad's are not criminals for trying.

 

When wrestling did not work out with the other boy, the father (after giving it a good try) let it go. he does not sound like a monster, but a good loving father.

 

I think you are getting some terrible advice here.

 

Bill

[Trish]

Advice to DS: Either look at this as a character-building exercise, or, start losing matches. All of them.

[Spy Car]

He is an 8yo boy... he is not going to win an argument with his father. He needs an advocate...someone to speak for him...his mom.

 

Now, my questions would be WHY does he cry when it is time to go to wrestling? WHY does he hate it so much? you need to get to the crux of the issue.

 

My 14yo ds argued with me about going to piano lessons every week for 6 years but I would not let him quit. Now he loves it and he is so glad I made him go. I made him go because i knew the only reason he wanted to quit was because he was being lazy, didn't want to practice, would rather play video games, etc.

 

However, when we signed him up for sports it was a different story. He is not an athletic child. He hated it because he was uncoordinated and miserable and felt humiliated and other kids made fun of him, etc. So we let him quit.

 

I don't think there should be a "kids should never quit anything ever" rule or a "kids should be allowed to quit whatever whenever" rule. It depends on the kid and the activity.

 

Get to the bottom of why he hates it so much then tell your dh to stop living his dreams through his son. He had his turn. It's his son's turn to be his own person now.

 

 

So YOU get to argue with your son for 6 years about piano lessons (because HE is lazy, and YOU know better) but a father who is trying to keep a boy involved in a sport (in this case wrestling) is accused of living vicariously and is a person who needs to be advocated against? For real???

 

Strikes me as hypocrisy.

 

We do both piano and sports, but there is no question in my mind which of these two will add more to long-term health.

 

Gaining coordination (which is important) and conditioning, and developing athleticism takes work and practice. Just like learning to play the piano takes practice. Throwing in the towel because a kid is not a "natural athlete" has consequences.

 

Bill

[Unicorn.]

Here's our rule. If they start a sport, they finish the season. We tell them they have made a commitment, and they need to finish it. When that season is over, they don't ever have to play that sport again if they don't want to. Our exceptions to this rule are only if the coach is absolutely horrible, and/or demeaning to the kids. By horrible, I mean when ds was 8, he had a baseball coach that told them if they didn't know how to play baseball, and weren't any good at it by now, they would never learn. It got worse as the season went on, but that's how it started off. (Did I mention they were 8! ) We gave ds permission to quit. He said no and stuck it out. hth

[Guest]

Imagine the father comes home and finds his 8 year old son crying over doing Latin lessons (or piano or math).

 

And perhaps it means the world to you that the boy receives a classical education, and you feel Latin (despite the dear boy's tears) is a priority and something not to be dropped prematurely. Or maybe it is piano. Or math.

 

What if the dear husband came home to tears and said, "I don't think the whole homeschooling thing is working out" and his anti- homeschooling buddies were telling him, "clearly the boy needs and advocate" or "grow a backbone and shut this down"?

 

I can imagine the reaction to that!

 

Fathers and sons have dynamics that (barring true abuse—which this is not) need to play themselves out. If the Dad was a State champion wrestler (which he was) then he obviously has a high level of skill and expertise in a sport where technique is at a premium and he has a passion to share. That he want to share with his son is a good thing.

 

Fathers enjoy sharing skills were they excel with their sons. It could be sports, or wood-working, or auto-mechanics, or what-ever. That is the natural order of things. It does not always work out, but Dad's are not criminals for trying.

 

When wrestling did not work out with the other boy, the father (after giving it a good try) let it go. he does not sound like a monster, but a good loving father.

 

I think you are getting some terrible advice here.

 

Bill

 

 

Bill, I agree with the bolded part in particular. I do think that there are skills that boys can learn from their fathers that they just won't learn from their mothers. (The reverse being true as well, of course.) And it is completely true that there are things I "force" my kids to do because I believe the skill is important and/or the discipline of persisting is important. They don't like to clean their bathrooms, either, kwim? They have all taken piano, though two are musical and one is not. You make a worthwhile point.

 

I did want to say in response to an earlier poster who wondered if there was a damaging dynamic with losses - no, there's not. That is one thing I've been enormously pleased with. My dh, his brother (who also wrestled and sometimes coaches) and all my sons' direct coaches have been tremendously supportive, instructive, calm and rational in coaching and dealing with losses. (The commissioner/coach is an a*hole, but he is not the direct coach for the little kids; he coaches the teens.) I have actually taken photos from matches where a coach or my BIL or dh was consulting with my kid after a match because I have deep appreciation for the way the instructing goes.

[8circles]

Imagine the father comes home and finds his 8 year old son crying over doing Latin lessons (or piano or math).

 

And perhaps it means the world to you that the boy receives a classical education, and you feel Latin (despite the dear boy's tears) is a priority and something not to be dropped prematurely. Or maybe it is piano. Or math.

 

What if the dear husband came home to tears and said, "I don't think the whole homeschooling thing is working out" and his anti- homeschooling buddies were telling him, "clearly the boy needs and advocate" or "grow a backbone and shut this down"?

 

I can imagine the reaction to that!

 

Fathers and sons have dynamics that (barring true abuse—which this is not) need to play themselves out. If the Dad was a State champion wrestler (which he was) then he obviously has a high level of skill and expertise in a sport where technique is at a premium and he has a passion to share. That he want to share with his son is a good thing.

 

Fathers enjoy sharing skills were they excel with their sons. It could be sports, or wood-working, or auto-mechanics, or what-ever. That is the natural order of things. It does not always work out, but Dad's are not criminals for trying.

 

When wrestling did not work out with the other boy, the father (after giving it a good try) let it go. he does not sound like a monster, but a good loving father.

 

I think you are getting some terrible advice here.

 

Bill

 

I see your point & agree with it in theory. I do think the fact that this is wrestling, a "fighting" sport, makes it different. My DH agrees & is an ex-military sometimes hunter sport-lover so I don't think its because I'm a mother & not a father that I feel this way. Forcing someone to fight is not on the same level, IMO.

[Spy Car]

 

 

I see your point & agree with it in theory. I do think the fact that this is wrestling, a "fighting" sport, makes it different. My DH agrees & is an ex-military sometimes hunter sport-lover so I don't think its because I'm a mother & not a father that I feel this way. Forcing someone to fight is not on the same level, IMO.

 

Some people will think that wresting is the "most classical" of all sports, and that training a child to use his body in this grand tradition is virtuous. Others will disagree. Same with taking children out to hunt. Some will see this positively as a link to our primordial past, and others will believe it is an ugly blood-sport from which children ought to be shielded.

 

People have different beliefs about things. And aspirations vary. But who doesn't have aspirations for their children? Knowing when to give up on our dreams for our children is not always a bright clear line. Personally, I don't think this father is being given a fair shake in some of the posts made here. He is the boy's father and that counts for something.

 

Bill