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Dd11 hasn't been to school since preschool. She's heard that middle school is awash with mean girls, but she's starting to wonder since all the girls she meets in the neighborhood and her theater classes and other places seem so nice.

 

I should add she feels socially stifled, and envies the close friendships made by all these girls she sees who attend regular school. She's very curious about middle school, and is dying to attend.

 

What would you tell her?

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For me, no way would I put a kid in middle school if I can help it. I think those are the worst years socially and that is backed up by all the public school kids and parents of ps middle school kids we know. Of course some kids adjust just fine, but the ones I know right now here are having a hard time. I ran our girl scout troop and the now 5th grade girls and moms are the reason I quit :)

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Where the mean girls are? In Middle school, on top pf the popularity pile.

 

My DD attended elementary school and was fine. Middle school was a disaster: no learning, lots of bullying. We pulled her out early in 6th grade - had we know what was going on, we would not have let her start middle school at all.

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Where the mean girls are? In Middle school, on top pf the popularity pile.

 

My DD attended elementary school and was fine. Middle school was a disaster: no learning, lots of bullying. We pulled her out early in 6th grade - had we know what was going on, we would not have let her start middle school at all.

 

This. MS is a definite no for us.

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It's not even the mean girls I'm (so) worried about. It's the girls that are in a different place. My almost 10 yo is still a little girl in a lot of ways - she likes to play with dolls and stuffed animals and climb trees and roller skate. Yet she's very smart and articulate and seems mature (by adult standards) When she gets together with a group of her former schoolmates, most of them are into makeup, clothes, boys, pop stars, texting . . . they are teenagers already, in the teeny-bopper sense of being teenagers. She feels out of place, they look at her as an oddball. They aren't mean or anything, but she definitely doesn't fit in, and if she had to deal with that day in and day out, it would get really lonely. Or she would change to fit in.

 

Luckily she has a few close friends - one a year older, one the same age, one a year younger - who are in the same place, mental age and maturity wise, and the fact that she isn't in school means that these are the girls we seek out for playdates and activities. She is around the "other" kind of girls plenty, in theater and at the occaisional social event, but it isn't a constant thing, and that is really healthy for her - it's letting her grow up as herself without that constant pressure to grow up so fast.

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All the girls she runs into in her classes and activities seem nice.

 

Mean girls and boys can usually behave well if they run the risk of being booted from a class/activity. They are typically mean in a group/school where little or nothing is done about bullying (taunting included).

 

When she gets together with a group of her former schoolmates, most of them are into makeup, clothes, boys, pop stars, texting .

 

I see that in the K-8 school across from my home. The 6-8 graders dress like adults without the elegance. Me and hubby also do not understand why some 6th graders needs to carry Coach handbags, wear mid thigh skirts and too much makeup to school.

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Dd11 hasn't been to school since preschool. She's heard that middle school is awash with mean girls, but she's starting to wonder since all the girls she meets in the neighborhood and her theater classes and other places seem so nice.

 

I should add she feels socially stifled, and envies the close friendships made by all these girls she sees who attend regular school. Is that true where you are? That all the girls at the regular school have close friendships? Or is it an appearance looking in from the outside that might not be accurate. If you are in an area where the girls are truly all close friends and readily welcome newcomers into their midst that is very unusual, but might be worth considering attending, even as a way to make the friendships. Or it might be worth seeing if she could attend a single class or activity to get to meet these wonderfully nice girls who all have such wonderful close friendships. She's very curious about middle school, and is dying to attend.

 

What would you tell her?

 

"You're lucky to have nice girls in the neighborhood and theater classes. Can we do anything to help make these nice girls into closer friends?"

 

"Mean" does not always entail doing something overtly nasty; it can just be not allowing someone into a clique, teenage social shunning. And at that stage, fitting in may require things that are not especially emotionally or physically healthy, depending on the particular group and its peer pressure.

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I should add she feels socially stifled, and envies the close friendships made by all these girls she sees who attend regular school.

 

I attended an all girls middle school. Those close friendships are typical cliques that are formed at school and sometimes there are also social hierachy within those social cliques. It is kind of like a middle school version of a sorority club (not that all sorority clubs are bad)

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It may be more difficult to find mean girls in an extracurricular activity. Most of the time, they want to attend and pursue their passion. A school setting is really kind of different. Day in, day out....

 

Personally, middle school was such a waste of my years. But I happen to also attend a music school on Saturdays during those forsaken years where there were similar-aged girls, so 12-15 years old, in theory classes, and never ever experienced mean girl tactics there. It would have been so out-of-place, and honestly, that person would have been ostracized.

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My kids swear there are no cliques or particularly mean people at their schools. I've told them horror stories from my public schools days (I graduated in 1995) and they look at me like I'm crazy and say it's not like that anymore.

 

We moved this summer and they're sticking to their story even in the new schools. They are in 10th (boy) and 6th grade girl.

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It's not even the mean girls I'm (so) worried about. It's the girls that are in a different place. My almost 10 yo is still a little girl in a lot of ways - she likes to play with dolls and stuffed animals and climb trees and roller skate. Yet she's very smart and articulate and seems mature (by adult standards) When she gets together with a group of her former schoolmates, most of them are into makeup, clothes, boys, pop stars, texting . . . they are teenagers already, in the teeny-bopper sense of being teenagers. She feels out of place, they look at her as an oddball. They aren't mean or anything, but she definitely doesn't fit in, and if she had to deal with that day in and day out, it would get really lonely. Or she would change to fit in.

 

Luckily she has a few close friends - one a year older, one the same age, one a year younger - who are in the same place, mental age and maturity wise, and the fact that she isn't in school means that these are the girls we seek out for playdates and activities. She is around the "other" kind of girls plenty, in theater and at the occaisional social event, but it isn't a constant thing, and that is really healthy for her - it's letting her grow up as herself without that constant pressure to grow up so fast.

Bingo here.

My 11 year old (newly 11 in August) is still into her dolls, baking, playing Harry Potter in the backyard, etc. She *does* text - but it's to her best friend... they text and send pictures about their Felicity (AG) dolls. Lol.

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It may be more difficult to find mean girls in an extracurricular activity. Most of the time, they want to attend and pursue their passion. A school setting is really kind of different. Day in, day out....

 

Oddly, we've found the opposite. One of my older dd said there were a bunch of mean girls at her old dance school. My younger dd complained all last year about mean girls in her gymnastics team.

 

I always swore I'd never put my kids in middle school, but younger dd ended up there this year. She's bored to tears with the academics and wants to come home again, but she says there are no mean girls. "Mom, middle school isn't at all like you said - everyone's really nice.". Yep, apparently I made it all up. :tongue_smilie:

 

I think it has a lot to do with the adults in charge of the group, large or small. I hear there's much more mean girl antics at the other middle school in town. I don't think it's just that the kids on the other side of town are meaner...

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I also would have to say that we have found the opposite. My dd11 went back into school as a 6th grade middle schooler, and she hasn't honestly had too much bad to say about it. lol.

 

Sure there is drama, but she has learned enough about herself from being home schooled that I can tell she is handling all of it better than she would have otherwise. It helps that the principal is a stickler about bullying and bad attitudes so ANYTHING that happens she immediately goes and tells and it is dealt with.

 

Other than that she has found a core group of girls & boys that she has known, along with a few new ones, and it is working well for her. No .. it's not a huge academic challenge, but we still afterschool & before school her in math & writing along with piano. What she IS learning is how to juggle a lot of different teachers and requirements, how to follow through and turn things in on time, how to be accountable to someone other than me. She also has more competition than she had here at home, so that has been nice. ;-)

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Oddly, we've found the opposite. One of my older dd said there were a bunch of mean girls at her old dance school. My younger dd complained all last year about mean girls in her gymnastics team.

 

Any activity where girls are competing against each other tends to bring out the nastiness. Activities where the kids are all working as a team rather than competing individually tends to dampen it.

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Where the mean girls are? In Middle school, on top pf the popularity pile.

 

My DD attended elementary school and was fine. Middle school was a disaster: no learning, lots of bullying. We pulled her out early in 6th grade - had we know what was going on, we would not have let her start middle school at all.

 

This. MS is a definite no for us.

 

Oh yeah. It really is horrible. Around here if you don't get your nails done, have a (current) Nordstrom's bag, and designer shoes you suck.

 

I feel horrible for the few girls I know in PS MS

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This past summer my dd11, a horse lover, attended a Rodeo Queen University locally. It was a 4 day event and sponsored by a Christian organization. For a horse lover and someone who is interested in rodeoing and maybe being a local rodeo queen this was a great opportunity to learn. Over the course of 5 days 4 nights she was surrounded by current rodeo queens from counties to the state one. She learned about poise, how to speak clearly from an audience, how to fix her hair, how to apply 'very little' makeup, etc. She also learned about the events of the rodeo, rode horses, etc. Initially I was skeptical about letting my 11 year old go, and for sure about letting her do her makeup. Well .. let me tell you .. she learned more about how to conduct herself properly over the course of that week than at any other time in her life. She learned the PROPER way to do things that looked appropriate for her age. It was like the modern day Ms. Manners Camp! lol .. So now when she sees these girls wearing 4 inch heals & bright red lipstick she just shakes her head.

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all the girls she meets in the neighborhood and her theater classes and other places seem so nice.

 

This is because she's not confined with them for 7 hours a day and caught up in all their social drama. Even the "mean kids" at my school tended to be decently nice one-on-one or outside of school. The school environment brings out the worst.

 

Tara

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I pulled dd11 out of her old school almost two years ago and hs-ed her for a year and a half. Mean girls (in her 4th to 6th grade class) played a small role in that decision. Mostly, there were academic reasons.

 

This year she is in 6th grade at a small, well-respected independent Catholic middle school.` I'm sure there will be drama at some point, but for now I am relatively happy with her environment.

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My girls are in 8th grade at Private School this year - at their request. No mean girls. Of course some are more popular than others but that doesn't make them mean :confused: - they were actually some of the ones that first welcomed them to school.

 

They knew some of the kids from our church group and knew they were nice kids.

 

For My girls - they are loving being in school and it is a good school with very involved teachers.

 

They will stay in school as long as the want to - but the door is open if they decide to come back home.

 

Not every school is as good as ours - but they certainly aren''t all horrible and to be avoided at all costs :confused:

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It's not even the mean girls I'm (so) worried about. It's the girls that are in a different place. My almost 10 yo is still a little girl in a lot of ways - she likes to play with dolls and stuffed animals and climb trees and roller skate. Yet she's very smart and articulate and seems mature (by adult standards) When she gets together with a group of her former schoolmates, most of them are into makeup, clothes, boys, pop stars, texting . . . they are teenagers already, in the teeny-bopper sense of being teenagers. She feels out of place, they look at her as an oddball. They aren't mean or anything, but she definitely doesn't fit in, and if she had to deal with that day in and day out, it would get really lonely. Or she would change to fit in.

 

Luckily she has a few close friends - one a year older, one the same age, one a year younger - who are in the same place, mental age and maturity wise, and the fact that she isn't in school means that these are the girls we seek out for playdates and activities. She is around the "other" kind of girls plenty, in theater and at the occaisional social event, but it isn't a constant thing, and that is really healthy for her - it's letting her grow up as herself without that constant pressure to grow up so fast.

 

 

This is very true too.

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This is because she's not confined with them for 7 hours a day and caught up in all their social drama. Even the "mean kids" at my school tended to be decently nice one-on-one or outside of school. The school environment brings out the worst.

 

 

My daughter's neighborhood friends are generally nice, but not always, and occasionally quite catty, and I don't trust them very much. She has come home crying more than once. These are not even middle school aged girls.

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Tell her to count her blessings :)

 

Middle school-age was where I decided I hated other females, and it took me years to get over it. Of course, I didn't even TRY to fit in, so that didn't help.

 

:iagree: I think I didn't know how to fit in the way other girls intuitively did. I wasn't interested to learn either.

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:iagree: I think I didn't know how to fit in the way other girls intuitively did. I wasn't interested to learn either.

 

Yep. I somehow missed the memo that I was supposed to pay attention or care. A clue dawned on me in 8th grade when someone said "you know, you should wear jeans sometimes." I think my reaction was something like "huh, I guess I don't, and are other people, and should I be paying attention??"

 

Uniforms in high school saved me.

 

Middle school-age was where I decided I hated other females, and it took me years to get over it.

 

I didn't end up hating other females, as in my jr. high, it was actually a group of boys who were mean to me. Guess there was a reason I didn't start dating till college...

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My daughter's neighborhood friends are generally nice, but not always, and occasionally quite catty, and I don't trust them very much. She has come home crying more than once. These are not even middle school aged girls.

 

We've had the same experience. Nice girls in small doses, but they seems to morph into different children surrounded by their school friends.

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Middle school-age was where I decided I hated other females, and it took me years to get over it. .

 

LOL. I was popular and did have friends - but Middle school was when I decided that I never wanted to work with a group of women.

As a physicist, I don't have to ;-)

(Individual women are fine... but groups, no way. Give me guys any day.)

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Can mail a few of them out to us? DD is starting to wonder if they even exist. All the girls she runs into in her classes and activities seem nice.

 

The girls she's meeting are in groups and clubs because they want to be. Their parents often participate in these activities. Even if it's a drop off situation, there are other adults present. Not only are they on their better behavior, they're the "cream of the crop". Plus it's not school. No overwhelming need to impress, fit in, or hide your individuality.

 

Where is she likely to meet these "mean girls"? In the school bathroom, at least thats where I always found them, or they found me. I survived but I would trade it all for the experiences she's able to have.

 

PS means 2-3 hours of homework each night, with weekends spent doing school projects and writing papers. She will get to see her friends for 1/2 hr during lunch and 10 minutes waiting for the bus (there's another level of H##L I won't even begin to try to describe). The rest of the time (6+ hrs) is spent being told to be quiet and listen. High School is a bit better (so my older DD's tell me). But is still very "Jungle-like" eat or be eaten.

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We ran into a clique of them at the library this afternoon. They appeared to be about DD's age but pseudosophisticated- full makeup, manicures, outfits that were ubertrendy and very matchy-matchy.

 

They were terrorizing some poor schmuck boy- he brought them over some Diet Cokes from the cafe and then the ringleader said in a really snotty voice, "Okay, now we will allow you to sit with us." I wanted to smack her and tell the poor kid that he deserved better than these little b*tches who were clearly just using him. :thumbdown:

 

Fortunately DD just ignored them to talk to a different boy about Minecraft.

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My girl dealt with 'mean pre-teen girls' for the first time last weekend.

A friend of mine had a significant birthday and held it in a small town school hall. (My old town).

Several of the children my daughter knew, but they were together on their school turf with their ringleader.

3 or 4 times she crawled onto my lap and buried her head to hide her tears, recovered and went back to try to play with them.

I followed, watched and spoke to two girls I knew, told them bluntly that they were being mean and I expected better from them.

The last time I found them in the dark at the back of the playground 'testing' my girl who was excited and pleased that she was passing tests so they would be her friend.

I told her and them this was NOT acceptable. That the tests would soon get nasty and friends do NOT need to be tested and brought her back inside with me.

 

She found some boys and played on scooters on a ramp with them.

The girls watched me and avoided her.

 

My girl had not struck this before and could not work out why her friends would do that, just to stay on the good side of the ringleader.

I tried to explain, but she can't see why they don't just break the cycle.

 

She mostly plays in mixed age groups where they all look out for each other and we can leave them to it.

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Even though we haven't had an issue with too many mean kids in general, dd has spoken about the fact that the 8th grade girls definitely act way older than they should. She's seen people coupling up in the hallways & recess area. We have a strict policy of no dating, and ironically some of dd's best friends since the toddler years are two boys in her class that also have that no dating policy enforced by their parents.

 

I think if you can find a core group of essential people then you can honestly enjoy yourself.

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This is just my experience, so far with dd in 7th grade.

 

If you are pretty, fairly self-confident, get decent grades, smile and are outgoing, dress pretty well, have decent breath, are coordinated, and don't have any quirky habits (laugh too loud, be too random, stand too close, etc), you will be ok in middle school.

 

Take out one or two of the above, and you are toast.

 

Just ime.

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This is just my experience, so far with dd in 7th grade.

 

If you are pretty, fairly self-confident, get decent grades, smile and are outgoing, dress pretty well, have decent breath, are coordinated, and don't have any quirky habits (laugh too loud, be too random, stand too close, etc), you will be ok in middle school.

 

Take out one or two of the above, and you are toast.

 

Just ime.

 

But being too pretty or too smart or too talented will also make a girl a target because of jealousy. You have to be cute-but-not-gorgeous, bright-but-not-brilliant, etc. etc. fitting-in-without-standing-out. :rolleyes:

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But being too pretty or too smart or too talented will also make a girl a target because of jealousy. You have to be cute-but-not-gorgeous, bright-but-not-brilliant, etc. etc. fitting-in-without-standing-out.

:iagree:

With the culture of mediocrity, intelligence and ambition are cardinal sins.

If she is smart and cares about academics, a girl may possibly have classmates tell her to her face "Dumb down a bit, you make us look stupid."

You may ask me why we homeschool.

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It's not even the mean girls I'm (so) worried about. It's the girls that are in a different place. My almost 10 yo is still a little girl in a lot of ways - she likes to play with dolls and stuffed animals and climb trees and roller skate. Yet she's very smart and articulate and seems mature (by adult standards) When she gets together with a group of her former schoolmates, most of them are into makeup, clothes, boys, pop stars, texting . . . they are teenagers already, in the teeny-bopper sense of being teenagers. She feels out of place, they look at her as an oddball. They aren't mean or anything, but she definitely doesn't fit in, and if she had to deal with that day in and day out, it would get really lonely. Or she would change to fit in.

 

 

:iagree: one of the best parts of homeschooling these grades, IMHO is allowing them to be children.

 

 

But being too pretty or too smart or too talented will also make a girl a target because of jealousy. You have to be cute-but-not-gorgeous, bright-but-not-brilliant, etc. etc. fitting-in-without-standing-out. :rolleyes:

:iagree:

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Dd11 hasn't been to school since preschool. She's heard that middle school is awash with mean girls, but she's starting to wonder since all the girls she meets in the neighborhood and her theater classes and other places seem so nice.

 

I should add she feels socially stifled, and envies the close friendships made by all these girls she sees who attend regular school. She's very curious about middle school, and is dying to attend.

 

What would you tell her?

 

The mean girls are always nice to your face. They make fun of you behind your back.

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We have mean girls:

 

We've encounted mean girls everywhere-some are really overt and some are just shunning. Some is high drama and some is easy to ignore. We have experienced it in the neighborhood, church, homeschool groups (Christian and Secular), Girl Scouts, AHG scouts, soccer, and most especially dance.

 

 

My 8th grade daughter was able to stay friends with her public school friends until about 7th grade. Then they started having boyfriends, etc and she does not. She was also still into dolls up until just a few months ago. Then many of those friends just seem to get mean. Even if they come over and interact. They are plain rude so my daughter just quit asking them over.

 

Soccer and Dance are hard because she is the new girl in groups that have been together for many, many years. Add to that the fact that she doesn't go to school with any of them so she struggles more than the other new girls have.

 

Dance is the worst. The clique even has a name. Parents of younger girls not even in her dance class know about this clique. Everything seems to run on being in company (we are not company this year since we just switched and auditions had already happened). Being in company for 2 classes is more highly regarded than taking 8 classes and not being in company (no matter why -one girl can't do company for just this year and she's "out"). The biggest Queen Bee is the daughter of one the teachers. Unfortunately, the non-clique girls formed their own clique and they shun my dd too. Her only respite is she is in two classes not on the cycle and are her first year taking so it's mostly kids younger than her and they seem to like her.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Can mail a few of them out to us? DD is starting to wonder if they even exist. All the girls she runs into in her classes and activities seem nice.

 

 

Away from school and peer pressure, this is often the case. In a clique or group, they are quick to follow someone else's lead for fear of not being liked. The dynamic outside of the school building is a far cry from the dynamic inside the school building.

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Away from school and peer pressure, this is often the case. In a clique or group, they are quick to follow someone else's lead for fear of not being liked. The dynamic outside of the school building is a far cry from the dynamic inside the school building.

 

We are encountering it for the first time this year in ballet, as my girls are getting into more advanced classes. Most of the meaner girls attend public schools, but I'm not so sure that schools are the cause. It seems that dance can be irrationally competitive, not just among the kids, but also the (gasp) moms. I'm guessing this can happen in any organized competitive activity, i.e., sports and the like. Ultimately, the parents set the tone. It's been a little difficult to adjust to this year, but we try to have lots of open discussions with our dds about mean girl dynamics -- how to recognize the behaviors, and how to respond constructively.

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