Just summarizing the last few threads GRIN... I've been reading these boards for awhile, and I've listened to several of my children's friends complain about their teachers' threats and complaints at the beginning of 8th grade, and I've concluded that it is perfectly normal to spend the entire 8th grade year struggling to begin to learn how to: -Write a short well-organized expository paper -Produce work that has a heading and date, is legible, has full sentences that actually answer the questions, and isn't half question marks -Use an assignment book to keep track of one's assignments -Make and use some sort of study guides -Show one's work in math (math becomes complicated enough that one needs to show the work now) -Type And it is normal to spend the rest of high school learning how to: -Use more adult reference material -Skim so one can sift through a greater quantity of material -Write a longer expository paper -Read at an adult level -To do research Eighth graders don't have to arrive at high school able to do the second list. It is ok to spend high school learning to do those things. High school is long - four whole years. Yes, it is nice to arrive knowing them, and lots of students do, but lots of other students' academic skills are slower to mature. They still will arrive there by college, when students do, indeed, need to have those skills in place. Lots of people say their children made huge leaps after the age of 16. So... if your 13yo isn't behaving like a 17yo, IT IS OK. DO NOT DESPAIR. They keep growing after 13 or 14. In fact, they grow tons, just like they grow tons between the ages of 2 and 6. Part of that growth is a new awareness of themselves and language and the world around them and their own reasoning powers. This awareness, unfortunately, also leads to some of the less attractive 13-15yo behavior. They are two sides of the same coin. If my own children and their friends are anything to go by, they themselves are horrified by some of their own changes and tendencies, and just as glad when they ease off later on. Growth isn't always easy, fun, and pleasant. Remember the terrible twos (or threes)? They were learning to be children then. Now they are having to start all over again and learn to be adults. Please, please give them lots of sympathy and tolerance along with bolstering their still immature self-discipline and judgement. And talk to them, lots. And listen to them, really listen, to the new person they are becoming, not just the old one they were. And mourn the child that is disappearing, because they are, too. And help them to look forward to the nice adult things, like being able to drive and being able to get together with friends more easily. And remember that they are still young. Hugs to everyone who is going through this. I'm going through it for the third time GRIN. HTH -Nan (I've left off various science goals, like learning to make observations, to draw, to design an experiment, to keep up with current discoveries in a field, and to use lab equipment because I haven't heard them discussed enough to be able to tell where the 8th grade/high school line normally lands.)

I'm in the early stages of opening a homeschool hybrid school. We're trying to figure out 5-8 grade history. I would like it to follow classical principles. Do y'all have any suggestions?? Some things I've considered include: 1. Joint classrooms with the elementary grades; everyone uses SOTW but the middle schoolers do *more* with it all. 2. Basically follow SWB's suggestions, using the Kingfisher encyclopedia as a spine. The downside is that every student is doing individual work, and I worry that we won't be able to help them enough with things like finding additional books, outlining, and summarizing. My own child needed a lot of help when we started on that level! 3. Maybe something where they take turns teaching for the week? Any suggestions??

My 12 yo son needs a good spelling program. I have chosen Spelling You See but I’m not sure if it’s the best choice for him. We are in Classical Conversations Challenge A so a program that is not simple and short will not work for us. He’s not a terrible speller. He has learned a lot of spelling simply by copying however I’m seeing that he needs better spelling instruction. I appreciate your thoughts!

Hi. First off let me tell you why I'm here. I have 2 sisters that homeschool their kids. While they do that, I teach Art in public schools. One day they mentioned to me that they couldn't find any art classes for their girls to take. They didn't want to teach the art lessons to them, they wanted someone else to teach the girls art. They also didn't want the girls to just do crafts. They thought that this wasn't educational for them. They looked everywhere for the girls and came up empty. There were places they could drive to, but they were over 60 miles away. That's where I came in. I mentioned that I could teach the girls the same lessons that I teach my classes. (Kindergarten to 8th grade) They jumped at the opportunity. They knew that I didn't teach the kids to create crafts, but actual art projects. They also knew that I love to incorporate other subjects into my lesson. One such example was when I was having my 1st graders draw Nesting Dolls and arrange them to show perspective, details, patterns and proportion. To introduce the project, I had a book that I read to them, then I brought out 2 actual Nesting Dolls from Russia. They gathered around one of the tables, so that they could all see. Then I showed them how the dolls worked and why they are called nesting dolls. It also so happened that the dolls from the story was painted in the same style as one of my nesting dolls. The kids were so excited about getting started and drawing their nesting dolls. They kept that excitement throughout the project, which was about 3 weeks long. I only get 40 minutes a week with the kids. So, after I taught them, they wanted more classes like that. They also told other homeschool friends about my art class. So that go the juices rolling. I could help other homeschool students experience educational art classes from their own home. I could record the projects and they could watch and follow along with me to create the projects on their own time. So I came up with Smart Art Club to do just that. And here I am sharing my art classes with other homeschool students and families. Right now the classes haven't be open yet and so we have a waiting list to join. I hate SPAM so I would never SPAM you. I am offering some discounts for those whom sign up. The classes will open in July. Sign up form Thanks for letting me rant. Ms. Cutler your future Art Teacher Smart Art Club

I need some ideas for grammar for this next year. We've been using FLL all the way through (DS levels 1-3; DD levels 1-4 and then Rod and Staff this year), and I'm having to acknowledge to myself that I just don't think it's working. Both kids can rattle off definitions and lists like nobody's business, but ask them to actually identify parts of speech in a sentence when we HAVEN'T just spent five minutes talking about that part of speech, and they look at me like deer in headlights. My son can easily tell you that "A sentence is a group of words that expresses a complete thought" and "All sentences begin with a capital letter and end with a punctuation mark" - and yet he routinely begins his sentences with lowercase letters. 🙄 The memorization just isn't making its way into practical use. I'm looking for something that, ideally, would cover grammar in a thorough but incremental manner, in about 15 minutes a day, with CLEAR explanations, plenty of practice, and in a format/presentation that's attractive and interesting to my kids. DD11 is an artistic, dreamy soul who'd love to spend her whole day drawing and listening to audiobooks; DS9 is a budding engineer who's preoccupied with Legos, pistons, gears, and the like. I don't even know where to begin looking. We've never used (nor really looked at) anything but FLL, and I've kind of been waiting to see if all the memorization would begin to pay off in practical application...but I'm just not seeing it, and I think I'm facing the fact that we need to try something else. Thank you so much for your help!!! Eta: I realized I accidentally posted this in the wrong topic...and as I can't find a way to delete it, please pardon me! 😳 I'll go post in the K-8 curriculum board where it was meant to be.

I'm looking for something to catch up my math phobic 7th grade daughter. She is dyslexic and doing well in her reading. Now it's time to work on math again.

Okay, DS is in Singapore 5B (standards). I switched him back to SM after 2 years of BA--he'd found it amusing and challenging, but needed quite a bit of hand-holding for it and lost ground in simple computation. (His ITBS scores tanked.) Now I want him to A) speed up on facts--sometimes in the middle of a problem he's stopping for 10 seconds to recall or, more likely, calculate something he should have memorized (despite some improvement via Times Tales) and B) get to Algebra in 8th. He might do high school at home, or might go to a B&M school. Visual presentation is very important with this kid. Seeing them in person at a local store, I have eliminated LOF and Saxon (again), and I think we could work with the ones below. What I'm considering is rest of 5th: Finish SM 5B. (summer) fact review (via Kate Snow??) 6th: Math Mammoth 7 color worktexts (their books for 6th looked like approximately the same scope as SM's 5th) 7th: Horizons Pre-Algebra (I do not like the look of their algebra, but the pre-alg looks good.) 8th: Jacobs Elementary Algebra. (It looks good, and now I've just done the Math Curriculum Selector quiz, which also suggested Jacobs or SM products.) It seems odd to use a different publisher every year, but these really look like good options for us. I don't mind repeating some stuff, as DS appreciates easy lessons. Jacobs looks like it's thorough enough not to worry to much about gaps beforehand, right? Do you see any glaring issues with this?

How frequently do you have your middle school students do lab reports? I'm thinking I did them rarely, if at all in middle school. I remember doing some in high school, but I'm a little hazy on how many. As a Chemistry major in college, I did them every week. If you have used Apologia, how often did you have your kids do complete lab reports? What do they do in public school these days? My daughter been taking Apologia science classes at an enrichment center two times a week for the last few years. This is the first time that she'll be doing science completely at home. I'm not a huge Apologia fan, but she loves the curriculum and requested that she use their Physical Science curriculum this year. For fun, she has also asked to read the Master Books Applied Engineering books (so no written work for Applied Engineering or the digging deeper research questions - the reading takes her about five minutes a day). I may cut some of the Apologia work in 2nd semester to work in Applied Engineering activities, but for now I'm trying to decide how many lab reports I should have her complete. There were three labs the first week, and after coaching her to fill out three lab reports, that seems like a bit much. It looks like there are about 50 experiments for the whole year for Physical Science. She loves science (and has expressed some interest in pursuing engineering), but doesn't love the lab reports. Who does? ? Someone suggested just doing the purpose, the data, and the conclusion for most of them, and occasionally asking for a full lab report. This person thought it was silly to usually request a hypothesis, because the expected results were given right after the experiment in the text. I do know that my daughter retains information much better if she writes it out, but I want to keep middle school science as fun as possible.

I am considering ordering one of the handwriting workbooks from the Getty Dubay series for my 5th grade daughter. Her handwriting is "ok," but it often ends up rather sloppy, as she tends to be lazy with it. She has gone through several Pentime books, which we really like, but I'd like her to focus more on legible printing. One thing I've noticed is that she often starts her letters from the bottom and goes up (with certain letters). She went to public school for kindergarten, and I think she was taught that way there, although she did get instruction in writing from the top down after kindergarten. Anyway, I've been looking at the Getty Dubay series, and I'm just wondering which book she should start with? I don't want her to feel that she's doing "baby" work, but I think there would be value for her in really practicing her letter formation, possibly with some tracing, before jumping into copying paragraphs.

2017-18 Well-Trained Mind Academy registration will end on Friday, September 15th. This is your last chance to enroll your student in fall and full-year courses. Register now! View all course descriptions by clicking here! Register by clicking here! All class times are listed in EST.

Hello, Can anyone share information about homeschooling groups (mainly focused on academics) in the Silicon Valley area? I'm looking for a cooperative group where dedicated parents prepare and teach lessons to the group at weekly meetings. Does anything like this exist in that area? Also, any suggestions on housing areas to seek or avoid on a limited budget? Thanks!

Does anyone have any recent experience with CNED? My daughter is bilingual, has attended a French school until now and will be transitioning to an American middle school for 6th Grade. I do not speak French, but my daughter wants to enroll in CNED. We are considering the digital & print option. Does anyone have insight they can share? My specific questions are below. 1. Are the lectures live or recorded? 2. Do students interact verbally with anyone? 3. I understand the total number of hours is approximately 450 over 9 months. Does anyone know the approximate amount of time spent on learning versus homework/testing? 4. How often do you recommend a tutor come? Thank you!

Ok - I'm on my 4th spelling program since we started homeschooling in 2nd grade. (All About Spelling, Spelling Power, Building Spelling Skills, Spelling City). With each, they memorize the list for the Friday "test" just fine, but what I'm finding - now that they are writing papers - is that it isn't translating to writing. They're heading into middle school and so there's an urgency to get this fixed. Any advice on approaching this subject at this point?? Thanks!

I need to figure out what "grade" to consider my middle schooler, and am grateful for help in figuring this out! I am thinking: 6th or7th? There is -- of course -- a long story about where we are now, but the shorter story is that I have homeschooled this child since PreK. He is precocious/accelerated, sensitive, not 2E, and is difficult to teach; and he grew up in our household with my husband's parents living upstairs from us. About two years ago his grandfather died, and shortly after that my son's academic abilities sort of just melted down. He went from being able to do AoPS algebra to having trouble with multi-digit arithmetic; he couldn't write grammatically correct answers to questions; his reading comprehension from IRs was about nil; and so on. I did not make the association with his grandfather's death, which was an incredibly stressful event for the family for many reasons, at the time. In response, and also in order to make sure that I could provide educational growth during a time when my husband's mother needed a good deal of attention and support, I moved him to Memoria Press as a rigorous educational option. I had to put him into their 2nd grade materials in order to avoid stressing him out; for math he began in 3rd-grade equivalent work. We've worked at our own pace and tried a lot of things, and this June saw him finish their 6th grade (corresponds to the work done in their 5th grade at the brick-and-mortar school). Here's where we are now: Reading: is a skimmer. He reads well above grade level and tests high, but does not read classics on his own. He can do, without stress, the reading that corresponds to MP's brick-and-mortar 7th grade. I would have to make him read their literature (at the level of Treasure Island) out loud to get him to read it carefully. Grammar: fine. We've done FLL, Grammar Island, MP's grammar, and are dabbling in Grammar Town. I am liking the looks of ALL!!!!! Spelling: Still remediating: we're in All About Spelling 5, having started in 2 or 3 at the beginning of the year. He is moving quickly and easily through AAS. Math: Nearly finished with Math U See Algebra. Please be kind about MUS :). Also drills; this year read Mathematicians are People Too. Science: been backburnered, can do Novare's middle school books (Physical Science, Earth Science) without stress. Strong knowledge base. History: we've done the Famous Men of Rome and Middle Ages, and we need a better balanced history. I trialed him on WTM methods and he can do decent summaries and 2-level outlines, he'd need a bit more practice before doing 3-level. Latin: finished 2nd Form Latin with online class, will do Third Form this year, summer work is some Familia Romana + review. Greek: finished Greek Alphabet, doing First Form Greek 1 page per day. Penmanship: totally legible, neat cursive. whoo-hoo!!!!!! ETA Composition: largely informal this year. He can write across the curriculum WTM-style at 6th grade level, and can do the writing in Classical Writing Maxim -- this is what we're doing, at a very light pace, over the summer. He is 11yo, turns 12yo on August 30 of this year. I started him in 1st grade at 6yo, which would put him in 7th, but I am unsure about his maturity. Well, I know he is "immature" -- he still carries his favorite stuffy around and in the car (but only around family members, not friends). But I am at a place where the work I plan will depend on how I think of his grade level, and if we are 2 or 3 years from high school, and so on. Especially if we move further from MP and closer to WTM methods and/or materials. He doesn't care what grade he is "in". thanks so much for your help!

Hi! I'm looking for suggestions. My DD is a rising 4th grader, but asynchronous in language arts (not mathematics). She enjoys classical education Well-Trained Mind style for its language-centered focus. Looking forward to middle school and then high school, I'm wondering how I customize a middle/high school pathway that would showcase her language arts talents? If she was talented in mathematics, it would be easier, I think -- algebra earlier, and then follow some variation on the typical sequence. But I'm having trouble thinking about something similar for language arts. It's very clear that a student has completed Calculus, for example, but how does one show an equivalent level of accomplishment in the language arts? What goals am I aiming for here? I feel as though the destination is out of focus, and if I don't know at least what continent to paddle towards, we'll end up in the South Pacific Garbage Patch. :) MCT just doesn't speak to me, but I'll give it another look. Suggestions? (cross-posted)

I'm specifically interested in hearing about your children's experiences with these instructors: Beatty, Cardinale, Osborne and/or Murphy. My rising 8th grade ds may be taking SWI B online next year but I don't know where to begin as far as selecting an instructor. Several time slots would work so it well may come down to instructor reviews. Thanks in advance! : )

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I am wondering about these programs and how to best utilize them. May do with my child over the Summer months.