If your family doesn't participate in Halloween, I have a Q for you

[msjones]

I teach a group of young kids (K-1) at a public school parent-partnership program. Several of them don't 'do' Halloween.

 

I want all of my students to feel comfortable and welcome and to be able to participate in all the activities.

 

So, I'm trying to plan seasonal activities that don't celebrate Halloween.

 

If your family doesn't celebrate Halloween, how would you feel about:

 

1. ...your young child making a paper jack-o-lantern? It would be in the context of a book I just love -- Pumpkin Day, Pumpkin Night. The book is about the cozy changes of fall, the colors, the falling leaves, a trip to a pumpkin farm, and finally the boy makes a jack-o-lantern with his mom. Halloween is never mentioned.

 

2....a picture book called "monster, monster." It is a lift-the-flap book in which silhouettes look like possible monster shapes, but when the silhouette flaps are lifted you see that the shapes are actually kitties or princesses or cowboys. At the end there is indeed a monster, but a very cute one. Again, no mention of Halloween.

 

Thoughts?

[Mrs_JWM]

The jack o' lanterns would have bugged me when we didn't do Halloween for religious reasons. That's no longer why we don't do H'ween - now, it's just habit and an aversion to begging for carp! ;)

 

I love the monster book for teaching about not being scared of the dark - very cute!

 

There are lots of harvest-related books that have non-jack o' lantern activities. I applaud your thoughtfulness!

[JudoMom]

Neither would bother me.

[milovany]

Neither would bother me.

 

:iagree:

[freesia]

I don't think the monster one would bother me.

 

The problem with the jack-o-lantern one is that the origins of the jack-o-lantern is that lighted squash were put outside houses to ward off evil spirits. Many Christians feel like we don't need to do that as we have the Holy Spirit and that to do so is to participate in something pagan.

 

However, as always, there are many different opinions. My dh didn't grow up with Halloween and had always wanted to carve a jack-o-lantern so we did it for a few years (but didn't put it outside lighted up.) So, you many have parents who don't care (as you'll find on this post.)

 

When ds was in a public school/homeschool cooperative I always appreciated when the teachers asked me outright what was okay. I would ask the parents involved.

[Aggie]

I had this challenge when I taught ps. What I finally ended up doing was avoiding anything related to halloween specifically. We talked and read about autumn and harvest activities. Since a jack-o-lantern is specific to halloween, and some kids don't carve them, I wouldn't have used that book (or left that part out when I read it).

 

The monster book...while it's not a halloween book, some kid will speak up about being a monster for halloween or something. It would be easier to read it, without upsetting any parents, any other time but now.

 

Just my 2 cents.:001_smile:

[msjones]

I don't think the monster one would bother me.

 

The problem with the jack-o-lantern one is that the origins of the jack-o-lantern is that lighted squash were put outside houses to ward off evil spirits. Many Christians feel like we don't need to do that as we have the Holy Spirit and that to do so is to participate in something pagan.

 

However, as always, there are many different opinions. My dh didn't grow up with Halloween and had always wanted to carve a jack-o-lantern so we did it for a few years (but didn't put it outside lighted up.) So, you many have parents who don't care (as you'll find on this post.)

 

When ds was in a public school/homeschool cooperative I always appreciated when the teachers asked me outright what was okay. I would ask the parents involved.

 

I won't see the parents until right before class. But, your post gave me an idea. Kids could easily choose to decorate the pumpkin as a jack-o-lantern or just leave it orange. (We're doing the traditional glue the orange tissue paper on the paper plate, add a stem, add the face craft.)

 

I'm thinking I'll just emphasize that the pumpkins can be decorated as jack-o-lanterns, or as big, beautiful orange pumpkins. Either way, the kids will get to cut and use the paint brushes and tissue.

[Tracy in Ky]

We don't do Halloween, but those activities sound fine to me--and fun!! :)

[msjones]

I had this challenge when I taught ps. What I finally ended up doing was avoiding anything related to halloween specifically. We talked and read about autumn and harvest activities. Since a jack-o-lantern is specific to halloween, and some kids don't carve them, I wouldn't have used that book (or left that part out when I read it).

 

The monster book...while it's not a halloween book, some kid will speak up about being a monster for halloween or something. It would be easier to read it, without upsetting any parents, any other time but now.

 

Just my 2 cents.:001_smile:

 

You're right. But...

 

We've done leaves and harvest already this month, and had a great time with that, but I do want to at least give Halloween a sort of 'nod' since it is a major and very fun event in the families of many (most) of my students. It's the only thing that will be in their minds on Wednesday!

 

The school where I used to teach did an all-out, ALL-DAY Halloween thing. I thought it was so out of line. Some kids actually had to miss school for the day.

 

So, I'm trying to respect both types of families, without causing a problem for either. I thought making the jack-o-lanterns on Wednesday would give the Halloween-ers the thrill of something Halloween at school, but not be as bad as a full-on party or costume parade or spooky story day.

[freesia]

I won't see the parents until right before class. But, your post gave me an idea. Kids could easily choose to decorate the pumpkin as a jack-o-lantern or just leave it orange. (We're doing the traditional glue the orange tissue paper on the paper plate, add a stem, add the face craft.)

 

I'm thinking I'll just emphasize that the pumpkins can be decorated as jack-o-lanterns, or as big, beautiful orange pumpkins. Either way, the kids will get to cut and use the paint brushes and tissue.

That would go over fine in our house.

[Jean in Newcastle]

You're right. But...

 

We've done leaves and harvest already this month, and had a great time with that, but I do want to at least give Halloween a sort of 'nod' since it is a major and very fun event in the families of many (most) of my students. It's the only thing that will be in their minds on Wednesday!

 

 

Here's the thing. I would notice the nod to Halloween and would roll my eyes at it. I wouldn't make a stink out of it but I would sigh a big sigh at not being allowed to ignore it. And I would wonder why I was asked about whether we "did" Halloween or not, since you were going to give it a nod anyway - esp. at that young impressionable age when my children anyway, couldn't differentiate between a little of something and a lot of it.

[Dinsfamily]

The monster book wouldn't bug me, but I would prefer it moved to a different time of year. I'd be mildly annoyed at the Jack-o-lantern, but not enough to complain. We don't expect others to adhere to our personal convictions. However, both activities would set off several other families I know that don't celebrate Halloween. We are on the more lenient side of that subject.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Dinsfamily

[Random]

Here's the thing. I would notice the nod to Halloween and would roll my eyes at it. I wouldn't make a stink out of it but I would sigh a big sigh at not being allowed to ignore it. And I would wonder why I was asked about whether we "did" Halloween or not, since you were going to give it a nod anyway - esp. at that young impressionable age when my children anyway, couldn't differentiate between a little of something and a lot of it.

 

Yes, totally this. We don't 'do' Halloween, but I am used to people thinking they are not 'doing' Halloween, but still celebrating Halloween. Does that make sense?

 

The activities you noted are, essentially, Halloween celebration activities. Even though we don't celebrate the day, and we wouldn't chose those activities, I wouldn't make big deal about it. I realize most people celebrate Halloween.

 

I'd wonder why you bothered to ask, but I would guess you [maybe?] didn't know better or didn't do any research about it before selecting the noted activities. I would also think it was considerate that you had asked.

[sweetbasil]

Sensitive children might not like the monster book, regardless of season. I have 2 very sensitive ones and anything referencing monsters would scare them at that age, so I wouldn't be happy about it.

 

As far as the Jack o'Lantern, someone who doesn't celebrate probably wouldn't be a huge fan of that activity.

 

Could you stick to pumpkins? Maybe read a book about bats? Spiders?

[TammyS]

I don't do Halloween, but mostly because I think it's dumb.

 

If I didn't celebrate for religious/ethical reasons, I think the stuff you mentioned would bug me. They are clearly Halloween and not seasonal, whether the word Halloween is used or not. Jack o lanterns and monsters are associated with nothing that I know of other than Halloween.

[Loowit]

I think the answers you get will vary based on why people don't celebrate Halloween.

 

When we weren't celebrating for faith reasons, yes, it would have bothered me to have my child decorate a pumpkin. If I knew it was the planned activity for the day, I would have had my child(ren) opt out if I could. It always irritated me when people essentially celebrate the holiday, and yet try to make it sound like they aren't. Jack o'Lanterns are very much associated with Halloween, whether you actually say the name Halloween or not.

[Sahamamama]

Young kids (K-1)

 

[snip]

 

1. ...your young child making a paper jack-o-lantern? It would be in the context of a book I just love -- Pumpkin Day, Pumpkin Night.

 

2....a picture book called "monster, monster." It is a lift-the-flap book in which silhouettes look like possible monster shapes, but when the silhouette flaps are lifted you see that the shapes are actually kitties or princesses or cowboys.

 

When the girls were really little (2, 3), I had it in my head that we didn't "do" Halloween. My husband had come from an area with a lot of witchcraft, so he was against any form of participation in Halloween. That was a few years ago. Then I started to think that we were missing out on the fun aspects of the season -- celebrating autumn, carving jack-o-lanterns, making costumes, getting out at night for a church harvest party. So we caved. ;) :lol:

 

Seriously, the jack-o-lantern never bothered me, but I know a few folks who still don't "do" Halloween and they would associate a carved pumpkin with scaring away evil spirits. Meh, to me (now), it's just slimy fun for little children, and messy fun for the adults. :D

 

The monster book might not be my favorite with this age group. IDK. One of my nephews had nightmares for WEEKS after his Kindergarten teacher read "Where the Wild Things Are." :confused: Are you sure that ALL the kids in the class can handle the monster thing? It only takes one sensitive child to upset the proverbial apple cart. FWIW, my kids all love good scare. They think that Where the Wild Things Are is hilarious, and they'd probably like the monster book, too. They're 2nd & K'er, so same age range.

 

If I were teaching the class, I'd probably go the generic "Celebrating Autumn" route -- pumpkins (not Jack), apples, corn, piles of leaves, fall weather, why leaves change color, migrating/hibernating animals, squirrels storing acorns, etc., etc., etc.

 

This reminds me: I remember YEARS ago, when I was about 19 years old, I was babysitting for a mother who did NOT "do" Halloween. I had no idea. Anyway, the boy (about 4 years old) wanted to make some bats and pumpkins out of construction paper. I obliged him and we put them up in the window. When she came home, she was FURIOUS and ripped them all down. I was mortified, but I sure learned a lesson that day....

 

Never mess with another parent's approach to Halloween. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

 

.

Edited October 26, 2012 by Sahamamama
I took typing, really.

[Embassy]

I can see both activities as potentially problematic. Maybe you can do something with candy. Halloween has a lot to do with candy, but candy is enjoyed throughout the year.

[msjones]

Here's the thing. I would notice the nod to Halloween and would roll my eyes at it. I wouldn't make a stink out of it but I would sigh a big sigh at not being allowed to ignore it. And I would wonder why I was asked about whether we "did" Halloween or not, since you were going to give it a nod anyway - esp. at that young impressionable age when my children anyway, couldn't differentiate between a little of something and a lot of it.

 

I didn't ask in class. I just know which churches some of the families attend, overheard the kids chatting, and put 2 and 2 together.

 

And I do see your point about my 'nod.' But, I really want to acknowledge both 'sets' of kids. I think that's fair. Halloween is one of the biggest mainstream American events of the year, whether everyone participates or not. And most of the students do.

 

Some of the families would "roll their eyes" at my avoiding Halloween so carefully. So, it's a tricky thing. (I'll leave the pun in there. ;))

[Sahamamama]

I can see both activities as potentially problematic. Maybe you can do something with candy. Halloween has a lot to do with candy, but candy is enjoyed throughout the year.

 

Now THIS would bother me more than the jack-o-lantern craft or monster book. Our girls are not going to have all that poisonous sugar. They are going to a Harvest Party (or two, depending on Frankenstorm), they are wearing costumes (vegetables, no kidding), and they can have all the fun and games they want, but we're coming home WITHOUT CANDY. :willy_nilly::willy_nilly::willy_nilly:

 

Sugar is evil.

 

High fructose corn syrup is evil.

 

Artificial food colorings and "flavorings" are evil.

[cjzimmer1]

We don't do Halloween and jack 'o lanterns are the equivalent of Halloween in my book. We just don't do anything associated with Halloween (fall parties, dressing up, scary stories, etc. We don't even go to pumpkin patches because I've yet to find one that isn't decked out in Halloween stuff and we just don't even want to look at it). So yeah that activity would bug me a lot. We also don't do monsters or read books about them at anytime so for my family that would also be problematic. But I will say I know very few families who are as conservative on these issues as we are.

[msjones]

When the girls were really little (2, 3), I had it in my head that we didn't "do" Halloween. My husband had come from an area with a lot of witchcraft, so he was against any form of participation in Halloween. That was a few years ago. Then I started to think that we were missing out on the fun aspects of the season -- celebrating autumn, carving jack-o-lanterns, making costumes, getting out at night for a church harvest party. So we caved. ;) :lol:

 

Seriously, the jack-o-lantern never bothered me, but I know a few folks who still don't "do" Halloween and they would associate a carved pumpkin with scaring away evil spirits. Meh, to me (now), it's just slimy fun for little children, and messy fun for the adults. :D

 

The monster book might not be my favorite with this age group. IDK. One of my nephews had nightmares for WEEKS after his Kindergarten teacher read "Where the Wild Things Are." :confused: Are you sure that ALL the kids in the class can handle the monster thing? It only takes one sensitive child to upset the proverbial apple cart. FWIW, my kids all love good scare. They think that Where the Wild Things Are is hilarious, and they'd probably like the monster book, too. They're 2nd & K'er, so same age range.

 

If I were teaching the class, I'd probably go the generic "Celebrating Autumn" route -- pumpkins (not Jack), apples, corn, piles of leaves, fall weather, why leaves change color, migrating/hibernating animals, squirrels storing acorns, etc., etc., etc.

 

This reminds me: I remember YEARS ago, when I was about 19 years old, I was babysitting for a mother who did NOT "do" Halloween. I had no idea. Anyway, the boy (about 4 years old) wanted to make some bats and pumpkins out of construction paper. I obliged him and we put them up in the window. When she came home, she was FURIOUS and ripped them all down. I was mortified, but I sure learned a lesson that day....

 

Never mess with another parent's approach to Halloween. :tongue_smilie:

 

 

.

 

Well said.

 

I'm beginning to see that I'm going to bug someone no matter what I do, and I'm okay with that. I'll just do my best to explain if anyone is unhappy.

 

Some parents are quite unhappy that I said no costumes. They have memories of enormous Halloween carnivals and parades at school when they were kids (so do I).

 

Some will dislike the jack-o-lanterns. I understand their perspective, and don't want to alienate their children at all.

[msjones]

I can see both activities as potentially problematic. Maybe you can do something with candy. Halloween has a lot to do with candy, but candy is enjoyed throughout the year.

 

Seems like a fun idea at first, but I think the candy would be even more controversial. I'd probably wind up on the evening news. ;)

[theYoungerMrsWarde]

When I was a kid and we didn't celebrate Halloween for religious reasons, I would have had a big problem making a Jack-o-lantern. My grandparents/guardians would have had an even bigger problem with it.

[*********]

We don't do Halloween and jack 'o lanterns are the equivalent of Halloween in my book. We just don't do anything associated with Halloween (fall parties, dressing up, scary stories, etc. We don't even go to pumpkin patches because I've yet to find one that isn't decked out in Halloween stuff and we just don't even want to look at it). So yeah that activity would bug me a lot. We also don't do monsters or read books about them at anytime so for my family that would also be problematic. But I will say I know very few families who are as conservative on these issues as we are.

 

 

Well, I'll sit in the conservative corner with you.

 

OP, we don't do Haloween, and I wouldn't want my kids doing the jack o' lantern or the monster book.

[Jean in Newcastle]

I didn't ask in class. I just know which churches some of the families attend, overheard the kids chatting, and put 2 and 2 together.

 

And I do see your point about my 'nod.' But, I really want to acknowledge both 'sets' of kids. I think that's fair. Halloween is one of the biggest mainstream American events of the year, whether everyone participates or not. And most of the students do.

 

Some of the families would "roll their eyes" at my avoiding Halloween so carefully. So, it's a tricky thing. (I'll leave the pun in there. ;))

 

In that case, unless I had made a point of telling you that we didn't celebrate Halloween and wanted no mention of it in class (which it sounds like no one has done), then your nod wouldn't bother me at all.

[ereks mom]

We have never celebrated Halloween, but I would not have a problem with the jack-o-lanterns as long as they all looked friendly, not scary, and there was no mention of Halloween. I'm not sure I could give the nod to the monsters because that theme would emphasize (or at least hint at) the very things that make me object to Halloween. Now, that same monster book used at a different time of year when there are no overtones of "ghosts & goblins" would probably not bother me at all.

Edited October 26, 2012 by ereks mom

[ereks mom]

The monster book wouldn't bug me, but I would prefer it moved to a different time of year.

 

:iagree: This is what I was thinking.

[msjones]

It is so helpful to hear all of your perspectives. Thank you for your replies.

 

I think I'm going to go with the pumpkin/jack-o-lantern craft (and the book to go with it) and skip the monster book. We may not have had time for the monster book anyway, and it's not a good enough book to be worth the possible conflict.

 

Hopefully, we'll all enjoy the class on Wednesday.

 

(I do wonder if a few of the parents will keep kids home due to older kids in other classes and their costumes....we'll see.)

[labst60]

We celebrate Halloween, but I thought I'd chime in anyway here....

 

We don't celebrate hannukkah (for "religious reason", b/c we are Christian) - but when my DDs were in preschool, they learned about hannukkah, and made menorahs and dreidels and learned some hannukkah songs.

 

I was not the least bit offended or bothered. For one, I personally think it was GOOD for her to be exposed to other things (and trust me, I'm not one who pushes diversity for the sake of diversity). But some friends DID celebrate and helped her have a basic understanding.

 

I see Halloween no differently. You can't IGNORE that next week is Halloween - that really wouldn't be fair to all the kids who DO celebrate.

 

I think the OPs plan sounds perfect and extremely considerate and thoughtful. If putting a face on a pumpkin bothers someone that much, they probably SHOULD keep their child home that week. I don't mean that snarky, I mean that references, etc *will* be there - and if it is that important to you for your child to not have any exposure, then keep them home.

 

A lot is in HOW it is presented. "Many people celebrate Halloween and the jack o lantern is a symbol of that" is different than "We should all celebrate Halloween". I don't celebrate chinese new year, but I learned about it in school and colored dragon kites, kwim? it was educational, not intrusive.

 

There are a lot of other "holidays"that I equally diagree with - but I think in a group setting, you roll with the punches (provided it is in a light manner) whether you observe or not - and if you feel so strongly that rolling with the punches doesn't work for you - look into other activities for those few days.

[katilac]

<snip> A lot is in HOW it is presented. "Many people celebrate Halloween and the jack o lantern is a symbol of that" is different than "We should all celebrate Halloween". I don't celebrate chinese new year, but I learned about it in school and colored dragon kites, kwim? it was educational, not intrusive.

 

This, exactly.

[freesia]

I guess what I'm not getting is why it's "unfair" to kids not to have a Halloween celebration at school. Aren't they celebrating at home? What is unfair about not having a celebration at school? Not everything that is done at home has to be done at school? Will you be teaching what Christians believe about Easter and having them do religious Easter crafts even if they are Jewish? Would it be unfair not to bc some of the children celebrate it?

 

I have no problem with keeping my children home. When I taught ps, I stayed home. But you need to realize that Halloween, like Christmas, is a religious holiday that has been secularized. Just as, when teaching about Christmas and Easter, you wouldn't have all children complete a craft with the religious elements of that holiday, you need to see that the Jack-o-lantern is central to the religious celebration of Halloween.

[MrsMommy]

We don't do Halloween at home, but I've had to accept the fact that unless I want to keep him home the entire month of October, DS (grade 1) will do Halloween at school. There is absolutely no getting around it...everything has to do with Halloween in one way or another this month, and it has ever since he was in the Early Childhood program when he was three. They even have a half day of school that day, and that half is just a party...it's almost as big of a deal as Christmas!

 

I'll sigh, and wish I didn't have to keep explaining to him that we don't do any of that stuff at our house, but I wouldn't say a word about the activities you've planned (or the 8 million activities that he actually has at school).

[Ellie]

I wouldn't have a problem with either one, given the context.

 

That pumpkins were carved into jack-o-lanterns several hundred years ago is irrelevant to me. It isn't why we carve them now, and it's messy and fun. :) So painting or otherwise decorating them would be fine with me

[msjones]

I guess what I'm not getting is why it's "unfair" to kids not to have a Halloween celebration at school. Aren't they celebrating at home? What is unfair about not having a celebration at school? Not everything that is done at home has to be done at school? Will you be teaching what Christians believe about Easter and having them do religious Easter crafts even if they are Jewish? Would it be unfair not to bc some of the children celebrate it?

 

I have no problem with keeping my children home. When I taught ps, I stayed home. But you need to realize that Halloween, like Christmas, is a religious holiday that has been secularized. Just as, when teaching about Christmas and Easter, you wouldn't have all children complete a craft with the religious elements of that holiday, you need to see that the Jack-o-lantern is central to the religious celebration of Halloween.

 

 

I do indeed understand the beliefs bolded above. I even share them.

 

But most of my students' families do not share those beliefs. They have probably never even heard those perspectives. They see Halloween as a lot of fun -- with candy and costumes and carnivals at school as well as at home. I realize that is offensive to many, but there you have it. Most Americans do not see Halloween as religious at all.

 

I would prefer it not be acknowledged at school in any big way. But, working in a public school, it's not appropriate to push my preferences and beliefs.

[TheReader]

I won't see the parents until right before class. But, your post gave me an idea. Kids could easily choose to decorate the pumpkin as a jack-o-lantern or just leave it orange. (We're doing the traditional glue the orange tissue paper on the paper plate, add a stem, add the face craft.)

 

I'm thinking I'll just emphasize that the pumpkins can be decorated as jack-o-lanterns, or as big, beautiful orange pumpkins. Either way, the kids will get to cut and use the paint brushes and tissue.

 

this is exactly what I was going to suggest; sounds like a win-win way to present the craft. Have fun!