Question about Divorce

[Kaleidoscope]

I'd love to delete this post completely since I've already upset people. However, since I have been quoted I guess there's no logic in deleting my post... so let me just put a disclaimer and hope that helps. I am sorry I upset anyone... I'm just in state of mind where I obviously should have been trying to communicate with my out loud voice.

 

I'm not being judgmental towards those who have opted to divorce. I would never question any other person's decision... My assumption is that if they chose divorce then for their circumstances it really was the best option. I have close friends and family members who have been through divorce. I have supported them 100%. So that is not at all the issue here.

 

However I was advised that I should seriously consider getting a divorce. For me I don't see what it would accomplish. I don't see the point. I don't see divorce helping anything. Perhaps though I'm missing something...

 

So from that spot I am asking a genuine sincere question...

 

What does it really accomplish?

 

I understand if it's that once spouse had an affair that they could still be a decent parent but you just couldn't live with them. I also get that sometimes it's one spouse pushing for the divorce.

 

But take a scenario where one parent is angry and over the top all the time. It's possible they could be considered abusive verbally and just generally out of control. In that case does a divorce really do any good?

 

If neither party is going to totally lose rights to see their children what is accomplished? You still have to communicate and your child is still around the other parent so the former spouse still has influence on your life. I don't see what it would accomplish?

 

Obviously if you can prove one spouse is a true danger and keep them from being around you or the child then you've actually accomplished something. I just don't see beyond that what good it really does.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Kaleidoscope
trying to clarify that there are no bad intentions meant by this thread, sorry to those I offended

[Joanne]

What does it really accomplish?

 

I understand if it's that once spouse had an affair that they could still be a decent parent but you just couldn't live with them. I also get that sometimes it's one spouse pushing for the divorce.

 

But just take a scenario where one parent is angry and over the top all the time. Maybe abusive verbally and just generally out of control. In that case does a divorce really do any good?

 

If neither party is going to totally lose rights to see their children what is accomplished? You still have to communicate and your child is still around the other parent so the former spouse still has influence on your life. I don't see what it would accomplish?

 

Obviously if you can prove one spouse is a true danger and keep them from being around you or the child then you've actually accomplished something. I just don't see beyond that what good it really does.

 

Your post makes me hyperventilate. It's out of context, possibly extremely judmental and ****s the other (victim) party to a lifetime of absolute, soul killing misery.

 

And you don't "get the point"? :confused:

 

To answer your question as if it were a sincere, not harmful, not judgmental question: It demonstrates to children that their basic rights are worth protecting. It affirms the right of the victim spouse to live a life without the abuse, power, and control dynamic. It removes the model of marriage/relationship that the kids are exposed to and may well grow up to normalize.

[MrsBasil]

What does it really accomplish?

 

I understand if it's that once spouse had an affair that they could still be a decent parent but you just couldn't live with them. I also get that sometimes it's one spouse pushing for the divorce.

 

But just take a scenario where one parent is angry and over the top all the time. Maybe abusive verbally and just generally out of control. In that case does a divorce really do any good?

 

If neither party is going to totally lose rights to see their children what is accomplished? You still have to communicate and your child is still around the other parent so the former spouse still has influence on your life. I don't see what it would accomplish?

 

Obviously if you can prove one spouse is a true danger and keep them from being around you or the child then you've actually accomplished something. I just don't see beyond that what good it really does.

 

:confused:

 

Sometimes a person who is abusive towards their spouse is fine towards their children.

 

Sometimes the divorce is the first step in removing children from that environment.

 

Sometimes the peace is good for the children and the abused spouse.

 

Sometimes it's good for a child to see a parent remove themselves from a bad situation.

 

Sometimes it's good for a person to remove themselves from a bad situation.

 

Sometimes a person who is over the top angry is angry at the situation and mellows out somewhat a few years later. This is probably not the norm, but I have seen it....

 

Sometimes the angry, over the top spouse files for divorce for whatever reason(had enough, control tactic).

 

Sometimes divorce isn't about anger and abuse.

[Jayne J]

Well, for one thing it can keep the 'bad' spouse from ruining your credit, destroying your house, derailing your education, spending your paycheck and wrecking your car. Plus, why should you face daily verbal abuse in your own home? If it happens on the occasions when you must deal with the person that is bad enough, but every day, in your own home?

[Night Elf]

Communication changed for the better with the divorce. Apples and oranges. Maybe I'm wrong, but I predict this thread to go downhill in a hurry once divorce is discussed as sinful.

 

And fwiw, verbal abuse is NEVER okay.

[Kaleidoscope]

Your post makes me hyperventilate. It's out of context, possibly extremely judmental and ****s the other (victim) party to a lifetime of absolute, soul killing misery.

 

And you don't "get the point"? :confused:

 

To answer your question as if it were a sincere, not harmful, not judgmental question: It demonstrates to children that their basic rights are worth protecting. It affirms the right of the victim spouse to live a life without the abuse, power, and control dynamic. It removes the model of marriage/relationship that the kids are exposed to and may well grow up to normalize.

 

Well before you pass out I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm talking about myself here so relax.

 

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Sorry to have offended you with my question.

[Kaleidoscope]

Communication changed for the better with the divorce. Apples and oranges. Maybe I'm wrong, but I predict this thread to go downhill in a hurry once divorce is discussed as sinful.

 

And fwiw, verbal abuse is NEVER okay.

 

 

I'm not calling divorce sinful and not saying verbal abuse is okay.

[Kaleidoscope]

Well, for one thing it can keep the 'bad' spouse from ruining your credit, destroying your house, derailing your education, spending your paycheck and wrecking your car. Plus, why should you face daily verbal abuse in your own home? If it happens on the occasions when you must deal with the person that is bad enough, but every day, in your own home?

 

Your reasons are good ones... I can see how that would play into the decision making it a more logical one. Thanks.

[Joanne]

Well before you pass out I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm talking about myself here so relax.

 

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Sorry to have offended you with my question.

 

 

It won't end the power, control, and abuse dynamic. But it gives the victim more power, more say, more control and a better, safer, quality of life. Done with support, and possibly some professional help, it allows the victim to grow, to heal, to re-define and to embrace life.

 

The abuser will seek another way to exercise power and control. There will be times on the other side of the "filed" stamp of a judge when you'll wonder if it WAS worth it.

 

But, by the time you've reclaimed and surpassed the person you were before the relationship, those ponderings are short and quickly replaced with joy over not spending another freaking moment walking on eggshells, trying to manage life to avoid eruption, and not being progressively and systematically beaten down.

 

My last 8 or so years has been the hardest of my life; but the hard is still - by far - better than the moments spent in a marriage like the one you describe.

 

I wish we could drop "verbal" and emotional" as descriptions of abuse.

[Jpoy85]

Well divorce isnt the only option- there is separation and dissolution.

 

The point of it is when it just isnt working despite your best efforts and quite frankly you are beyond done with it all and want something better than what youre experiencing.

[Kaleidoscope]

I wish we could drop "verbal" and emotional" as descriptions of abuse.

 

I can agree with that - I only used it, well because if you just say abuse people do automatically assume there is imminent physical danger involved.

[ktgrok]

It shows the child that that level of anger/crud is NOT normal. That it shouldn't be accepted. It gives them a chance to spend MOST of their time in a loving, normal, non abusive home. Also, sometimes the angry parent will be less angry and better able to keep it together for a weekend at a time instead of all day ever day. My ex is a MUCH better parent part time than he was full time. Plus, my son now spends most of his time in a family where people respect each other, support each other, etc. He has a stepfather that is an amazing rolemodel, that he respects tremendously. Yes, he still sees his father, and the poor example he sets, but now he has something else to balance that view with. If I had stayed he would have grown up thinking that was normal, and ok, and how marraige works.

[Joanne]

OP, if you haven't already, please read:

 

The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Evans

 

Why Does He Do That by Bancroft.

 

http://www.ncdsv.org/images/powercontrolwheelnoshading.pdf

[Joanne]

I can agree with that - I only used it, well because if you just say abuse people do automatically assume there is imminent physical danger involved.

 

Oh, in that post, I wasn't speaking to you and your phrasing. Just the whole system that perpetuates abuse. :grouphug:

[ktgrok]

Well before you pass out I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm talking about myself here so relax.

 

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Sorry to have offended you with my question.

 

You won't see it until you are out from under it. There will be a grieving period, a time when you wonder if it was worth it, but then it will be SO MUCH BETTER. You will be amazed, because you didn't know life could BE that good. That much better. That much easier. At least, that is how it was for me. As my mother put it, after I left I was still taking care of two people...it's just that finally one of those people was me.

[Kaleidoscope]

It shows the child that that level of anger/crud is NOT normal. That it shouldn't be accepted. It gives them a chance to spend MOST of their time in a loving, normal, non abusive home. Also, sometimes the angry parent will be less angry and better able to keep it together for a weekend at a time instead of all day ever day. My ex is a MUCH better parent part time than he was full time. Plus, my son now spends most of his time in a family where people respect each other, support each other, etc. He has a stepfather that is an amazing rolemodel, that he respects tremendously. Yes, he still sees his father, and the poor example he sets, but now he has something else to balance that view with. If I had stayed he would have grown up thinking that was normal, and ok, and how marraige works.

 

I'm glad it's worked out well for you. That does make sense and it's good to see that viewpoint.

 

I guess I'm jaded by the fact one of my closest friends regrets her divorce because she feels like she abandoned her son by putting him in the position of being with his abusive father several times a month without her there to support/protect him. She believes she'd have been better off if she'd endured the marriage.

 

It really is helpful to hear that it has been positive for some people.

[TranquilMind]

Well before you pass out I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm talking about myself here so relax.

 

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Sorry to have offended you with my question.

 

I understood what you meant. If you have kids, you are still tied to the person forever, so whatever crazy is his/her game, that is what you will be dealing with for the rest of your life anyway, in one capacity or another.

 

I think others are saying that sometimes it is necessary in order to preserve life, health or peace to some degree, anyway.

[TranquilMind]

Kaleidoscope: I guess I'm jaded by the fact one of my closest friends regrets her divorce because she feels like she abandoned her son by putting him in the position of being with his abusive father several times a month without her there to support/protect him. She believes she'd have been better off if she'd endured the marriage.

 

 

I totally see that perspective as well. But maybe there really was no choice at some point. We just don't know, as outsiders.

[Night Elf]

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Well, fwiw, while some of my custody issues were not great, all the problems ended on my dd's 18th birthday. There was a light at the end of the tunnel and it was glorious day to reach. My dd saw who was being respectful and who wasn't. Her dad and stepmom tried to turn her away from me but instead she lost respect for them. I hate to say it, but I kind of pity them. Their plan totally backfired.

 

I stopped being afraid to stand up for myself when we separated. That was a huge issue for me. I stopped being a doormat. I used Legal Aid to divorce but later went through an attorney when we were having custody problems. My ex was stunned that I stood up to him. And I won because I had the law on my side and didn't play dirty like he did. It was worth every penny to utilize that attorney. But I was lucky because things didn't spin out of control.

[Anne in CA]

My dh's first wife is diagnosed with bi-polar disorder, but I believe that she has Borderline Personality Disorder. She is MEAN, and when my dh divorced her the first few years were miserable for the dd he had with her because all his ex could do was hurt the dd so that's what she did.

 

My dh went back to college, which his first wife had sabotaged whenever he tried when they were married, he married me, we provided a good home for his dd, I even home schooled her for four years, in short his divorce made a good life possible.

 

There were many years that being tied to a horrible ex spouse was very difficult, but 22 years later my dh has a good life that would never have been even a little possible with his ex. She would never even allow bills to be paid on time. It would be a life with out the possibility of even owning a new car, or having food in the house the day before payday.

 

The hard years are worth it. It was almost 10 years after their divorce before my dh and I could afford a vacation, which we still had to do with frequent flier miles, lol, but the point is, a new life is available even though there is a lot of suffering to get to it.

[msjones]

OP, I understood your initial question. I have a friend who has stayed with her husband because she can't bear the thought of him 'taking care of' the children without her around. She feels a divorce would trade in one set of problems for another.

 

I think there are so many variables to consider.

 

Certainly if the abuse were pervasive and constant, you'd need to get out. But then you're sending your kids to spend weekends with that abusive person. Which is worse?

 

I think it depends on the individuals in the situation.

[Catwoman]

I agree with many of the other posts here, and am glad to see that you're hearing from people who have lived through similar bad relationships.

 

My thought is that the main benefit is that your kids learn that Mom isn't a wimp or a doormat. They learn that it's OK to stand up for yourself and say NO to allowing anyone to treat you poorly, because they will witness you doing it firsthand. They learn that you value them so much that you are willing to go it alone in order to give them a better, more peaceful life. They learn that you are willing to stand up and fight toe-to-toe in court to preserve your rights, your finances, and the custody of your children, and that you refuse to be bullied.

 

Whenever I think about whether or not something is worth doing, I ask myself where I will be in a year or two if I do it, and how I'll feel in a year or two if I don't, and nothing changes. In your case, I would suspect that "nothing changes" would be an optimistic outlook, as angry and bitter people generally get more angry and bitter over time, so I can only imagine that the relationship will have deteriorated even more in a year or two.

 

I don't know all of the details, so I don't know if you should get divorced, but I will tell you that if it's even a distant possibility, see an attorney NOW and find out what your rights are, and what steps you would need to follow. Additionally, make sure you know where all of the money and assets are. Finally, if you're not currently employable (I don't know whether or not you have a job,) get some job skills, so you will have all of your ducks in a row in the event that you decide you just can't stand things any more and need to get out of the marriage.

 

Basically, I'm saying that you should be prepared for a divorce even if you're not sure you want one. And please remember that if the marriage is rocky, you may not be the only one consulting with an attorney and preparing for the worst, so protect yourself and your kids by having a plan.

 

I'm so sorry you're so unhappy. :(

 

EDITED TO ADD: One thing you can do right now is to start documenting the abuse. Every time he is mean/angry with you or your kids, write down the details. Every. Single. Time. You will want to be able to demonstrate to a judge that your dh has anger issues, so perhaps he won't be able to get unsupervised visitation with the kids. If there are any witnesses to his bad behavior, be sure to add the names and specifics in your journal as well. You want to establish a history and a pattern of abuse, and if you write everything down in detail, it will make your testimony far more credible than if you just say that he gets angry a lot.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Catwoman

[dbmamaz]

For a long time I stayed with my ex because i felt the kids deserved a father, and he wasnt that bad to them. but one time my daughter, who was about 6, and i were sitting upstairs. the cat heard the ex coming up the stairs and jumped up and ran away. dd said "the cat is scared of pappa". I agreed. Then she said "Sometimes I'm scared of pappa too". I said, sometimes I am too and she said "But you're a grownup". I realized then I really had to leave him.

 

True, he did have visitation . . . but for many years my ex was living with friends, who looked out for the kids. My daughter ended all contact with him when she was about 15 yo. The ex dropped all contact w his son this year.

 

Your friend is dealing with some guilt, but it might be misplaced. If the father is extremely abusive, she should try to limit visitation. If the kids know they only have to be with him for a limited amount of time, if they know that thats not normal behavior, if they know that you were willing to sacrifice a lot so that, most of the time, their life is peaceful . . . that will matter. My kids made it clear that even when they missed having a dad around, they never faulted me for leaving him.

 

you have to figure out where your values lie, you have to figure out what the impact is on the kids and how they feel about it, and you have to make your decision. But part of the decision SHOULD include that you, as a person, deserve a life you feel good about, you deserve self-respect, you deserve to know that you can control your own destiny

 

I found a great man several year after my divorce. He has not, unfortunately, emotionally bonded with my kids, but he is fair and makes me happy and brings stability to our lives. You never know what life holds for you. You also dont know if your situation will get worse.

[Chris in VA]

But if spousal abuse is proven in divorce, can't custody be arranged so the kids only have supervised visitations with the abuser?

I guess in a "perfect divorce world...":glare:

 

I have a df who's husband sexually abused her children. She divorced him, but every one of them had to visit their dad. He had a very clever lawyer who "proved" that df sort of poisoned the kids against their dad (there's a term but I don't remember it)--her youngest ended up having to live with him for several years.

 

However, eventually life for her kids and for her changed and became the rich, full, healthy life they were meant to experience.

 

OP--:grouphug:

[Oakblossoms]

Are you in personal counseling?

[Joanne]

I agree with many of the other posts here, and am glad to see that you're hearing from people who have lived through similar bad relationships.

 

My thought is that the main benefit is that your kids learn that Mom isn't a wimp or a doormat. They learn that it's OK to stand up for yourself and say NO to allowing anyone to treat you poorly, because they will witness you doing it firsthand. .

 

Cat, I know you don't mean it quite like I am reading it. But being locked in an abusive relationship is not about being a wimp or doormat. It's a dynamic - strength, intelligence, or being very strong willed isn't what changes it.

 

But I agree that the model and role is important in making a decision to leave when it comes to kids.

 

I am not picking on you - just taking this as an opportunity to explain that staying in an abusive situation does not = weak. The abuse dynamic is insidious and complicated.

[Michelle in AL]

I was afraid of divorce for a long time. This is how me and my children have benefited:

 

All of what Cat said. You can't imagine how an abusive, angry or unloving relationship will affect the kids. It scars them, and can affect who they choose as mates and how they treat their children. I'm scared to death for one of my kids who feels she wasn't loved enough by her father and desperately needed his attention and now she's turned to someone I would consider undesirable. Sometimes we relive our family problems by marrying someone with the attributes we fear or that we have experiences in our childhood in order to save them. I love my children more than anything and it scares me to know that I may have caused them to make poor choices in the future. That is an awful burden.

 

I can tell you what good has come from divorce from me:

It forced me to make my own life. I had to find a job and I was lucky enough to have the education/experience to do this, others may not have this possibility.

 

I'm going back to school to make my career even more positive.

 

I did the above while I was married too, but one thing that often happens is when one partner gets healthy, the other will either get healthy too or become threatened and then the dysfunction becomes worse. In my case, things got worse.

 

My anxiety level decreased by 80%. My kid's anxiety level decreased. My dog's anxiety level decreased. We are all emotionally more healthy.

 

My income has increased drastically. I kept the checkbooks, and I know that $100s of dollars were wasted, but I literally live off of $1000s less and I live well, but again, I have a good job and that's not possible for everyone.

 

If I was in a bad situation and not financially stable enough to move out I would consider living with family if I thought the negative of the marraige outweighed the positives. If things weren't that bad, but divorce was a possibility, I would get an education if needed so I could get a good job in case it happened.

 

:grouphug: to you if you're involved in anything like this.

[Hen]

 

 

EDITED TO ADD: One thing you can do right now is to start documenting the abuse. Every time he is mean/angry with you or your kids, write down the details. Every. Single. Time. You will want to be able to demonstrate to a judge that your dh has anger issues, so perhaps he won't be able to get unsupervised visitation with the kids. If there are any witnesses to his bad behavior, be sure to add the names and specifics in your journal as well. You want to establish a history and a pattern of abuse, and if you write everything down in detail, it will make your testimony far more credible than if you just say that he gets angry a lot.

 

just to add if you do this, get a bound journal, like a bound book, it is more credible if it is something you can tell pages can't be ripped out of or moved without being apparent.

[Catwoman]

Cat, I know you don't mean it quite like I am reading it. But being locked in an abusive relationship is not about being a wimp or doormat. It's a dynamic - strength, intelligence, or being very strong willed isn't what changes it.

 

But I agree that the model and role is important in making a decision to leave when it comes to kids.

 

I am not picking on you - just taking this as an opportunity to explain that staying in an abusive situation does not = weak. The abuse dynamic is insidious and complicated.

 

:iagree:

 

I absolutely agree with you, Joanne! :001_smile: As usual, I probably phrased my post awkwardly. :blush:

 

I'm not talking about the reality of being in an abusive relationship -- I'm just thinking of the way her children will perceive her if she stays in an abusive relationship versus how they will view her if she doesn't. I wouldn't want her children to grow up thinking they should stay in a bad relationship because that's what their mom did, or even worse, to lose respect for her because she put up with the abuse and didn't protect herself or them from their abusive father (when in reality, she seems to be staying as a way to protect the kids from him.)

 

Personally, I don't view her as being weak or a doormat; I think she's being strong in that she's looking at her options and trying to figure out what to do.

 

I truly think her biggest obstacle isn't leaving her dh; it's what will happen to the kids when they visit their dad and she's not there to step in on their behalf when he loses his temper or treats them cruelly. And in addition to all that worry, let's face it, any kind of big change is scary, even if it's a change for the better. She'll be leaving what's familiar and stepping into uncharted territory.

 

I hope she's able to find a way to get out of the marriage and start a new life for herself and her dc. She's such a nice person, and I hate to see her feeling so trapped and unhappy.

[Catwoman]

just to add if you do this, get a bound journal, like a bound book, it is more credible if it is something you can tell pages can't be ripped out of or moved without being apparent.

 

YES! That's a great point! And don't use the same pen all the time, either. You don't want it to look like you wrote months worth of stuff down in a few days. If you document past events, mention when an event occurred, but date the journal entry on the actual date you wrote it down. Credibility means everything! So basically, if you remember things that happened in the past, make a list of them and add as many details as you remember, but don't pretend you wrote it down when it happened. Be honest.

Edited October 21, 2012 by Catwoman

[Remudamom]

I haven't read everything but here goes.

 

My sister was married to a total idiot, you all heard about him. He is dramatic, manipulative and plain old nuts. Long story short they divorced. He is really too self centered to spend much time with the children and as a result they are much happier and their behavior gets better and better the less time they spend around him.

[Joanne]

:iagree:

 

I truly think her biggest obstacle isn't leaving her dh; it's what will happen to the kids when they visit their dad and she's not there to step in on their behalf when he loses his temper or treats them cruelly. And in addition to all that worry, let's face it, any kind of big change is scary, even if it's a change for the better. She'll be leaving what's familiar and stepping into uncharted territory.

 

I hope she's able to find a way to get out of the marriage and start a new life for herself and her dc. She's such a nice person, and I hate to see her feeling so trapped and unhappy.

 

Yes. I can't speak to her situation, but my xh was not *directly* abusive to the kids. He was abusive to me in front of them. He's manipulative and controlling in all relationships. But a court would NEVER, EVER consider supervised visitation or limited visitation in his case.

 

There are types of abuse you can't report or forensically protect yourself from.

 

OP, I agree that if your "h" is abusive to the kids, keep a journal. Also inform one person who is least likely to be "on your side" and who might be considered a professional.

 

A local DV shelter may be a resource for you.

 

It also needs to be said that if you are thinking of leaving, or in the process of leaving, you are entering into the most dangerous time from an abuse standpoint. Even non physical abusers will escalate and do things you never thought they would.

[Mommysarah713]

These are great questions for your pastor. A forum is only going to confuse you and lead you through confusing misunderstandings. And this really is a spiritual question. My husband is a pastor and I know he would be disturbed if a parishanor brought this to forum instead of him. May God grant healing through His son.

[freetobeme]

These are great questions for your pastor. A forum is only going to confuse you and lead you through confusing misunderstandings. And this really is a spiritual question. My husband is a pastor and I know he would be disturbed if a parishanor brought this to forum instead of him. May God grant healing through His son.

 

and in my case, taking it to my pastor led to confusion and misunderstanding. every situation is unique. there are some good words being spoken here. it's good to see many sides and opinions in a given situation.

[Joanne]

These are great questions for your pastor. A forum is only going to confuse you and lead you through confusing misunderstandings. And this really is a spiritual question. My husband is a pastor and I know he would be disturbed if a parishanor brought this to forum instead of him. May God grant healing through His son.

 

The church and its people kept me in my abuse. The church and its people did little to help with the abuse post divorce.

 

ALL people I know (who happen to be women) who have been through this find that secular help, support, and education about abuse to be the most helpful.

 

It is my experience that the Christian church (or, for that matter, other major world religions also) has missed the mark in addressing abuse.

 

That said, a Christian based divorce support class was invaluable to me and the kids.

[Catwoman]

Yes. I can't speak to her situation, but my xh was not *directly* abusive to the kids. He was abusive to me in front of them. He's manipulative and controlling in all relationships. But a court would NEVER, EVER consider supervised visitation or limited visitation in his case.

 

There are types of abuse you can't report or forensically protect yourself from.

 

OP, I agree that if your "h" is abusive to the kids, keep a journal. Also inform one person who is least likely to be "on your side" and who might be considered a professional.

 

A local DV shelter may be a resource for you.

 

It also needs to be said that if you are thinking of leaving, or in the process of leaving, you are entering into the most dangerous time from an abuse standpoint. Even non physical abusers will escalate and do things you never thought they would.

 

Those are such excellent points, Joanne. Your input is always so valuable in this type of thread, not only because of your professional expertise, but also because you've BTDT and you know how it feels to live through it all.

[Jpoy85]

Well before you pass out I'm not being judgmental at all. I'm talking about myself here so relax.

 

And I'm being most sincere when I say that I don't see how it will end the abuse, power or control dynamic.

 

Sorry to have offended you with my question.

 

Because if you are in an abusive marriage, with or without kids and you divorce- you are no longer around that person who is abusive to you. You live apart and arent apart of their chaos. Even IF you had kids together, you still dont see that person but for the time it takes to drop off and pick up the kids.

 

It stops the cycle.

[Michelle My Bell]

 

But just take a scenario where one parent is angry and over the top all the time.

 

I have so many feelings toward this statement but I will contain them. You have obviously never been a victim of this sort of treatment day in and day out. It is torment. I was hospitalized because my body began having seizures due to the stress it was under. Day in and day out he verbally, mentally and spiritually abused me. We have been separated for almost two years now, living apart for over a year. There was no peace until he left for me or my children. Now things are so much better. Yes, occasionally he starts it up again, but now I have the luxury of telling him to leave my home.

 

What it accomplishes is even more than peace for me and the children. It accomplishes a chance for me to have a life that is filled with joy and love and happiness and health.

[Joanne]

I have so many feelings toward this statement but I will contain them. You have obviously never been a victim of this sort of treatment day in and day out. It is torment. I was hospitalized because my body began having seizures due to the stress it was under. Day in and day out he verbally, mentally and spiritually abused me. We have been separated for almost two years now, living apart for over a year. There was no peace until he left for me or my children. Now things are so much better. Yes, occasionally he starts it up again, but now I have the luxury of telling him to leave my home.

 

What it accomplishes is even more than peace for me and the children. It accomplishes a chance for me to have a life that is filled with joy and love and happiness and health.

 

:grouphug:

 

I had the same reaction. Read the thread. The OP IS talking about herself. I get the tone/context of the OP now, but I understand why we read it the way we did.

 

:grouphug:

[Kaleidoscope]

I have so many feelings toward this statement but I will contain them. You have obviously never been a victim of this sort of treatment day in and day out. It is torment.h.

 

Again, I do understand and I am sorry my poor wording upset you. I'm sorry you know what this is like.

[Scarlett]

I stayed with my XH for many years because I couldn't stand the thought of sending my son on visitation and another woman being involved in my son's life. I have to be honest, that part is as bad as I feared it to be. I hate it. And it has been 3 years.

 

I had no choice though because I couldn't live with the adultery.

 

My XH was often very verbally, emotionally abusive of me...just mean....withholding affection...that kind of stuff. I knew I had a bad marriage but I had no idea how GOOD a good marriage can be until I remarried. My family tells me that I am finally back to my old self now...I laugh more, smile more and am just relaxed now.

[Catwoman]

I stayed with my XH for many years because I couldn't stand the thought of sending my son on visitation and another woman being involved in my son's life. I have to be honest, that part is as bad as I feared it to be. I hate it. And it has been 3 years.

 

I had no choice though because I couldn't live with the adultery.

 

My XH was often very verbally, emotionally abusive of me...just mean....withholding affection...that kind of stuff. I knew I had a bad marriage but I had no idea how GOOD a good marriage can be until I remarried. My family tells me that I am finally back to my old self now...I laugh more, smile more and am just relaxed now.

 

I remember when I first "met" you here and you were still married to your XH. I kept hoping and praying that you'd work up the courage to leave him, because he was so incredibly obviously not good enough for you. He was so horrible, and you seemed so sad. I was so relieved when you divorced him and made a great new life for yourself.

[Scarlett]

I remember when I first "met" you here and you were still married to your XH. I kept hoping and praying that you'd work up the courage to leave him, because he was so incredibly obviously not good enough for you. He was so horrible, and you seemed so sad. I was so relieved when you divorced him and made a great new life for yourself.

 

Funny I don't remember even sharing much here...no husband bashing allowed and all that. But it was often very very bad. I did walk on egg shells a lot...However, I compartmentalized him and tried my best to enjoy the other parts of my life. I think I did.

[LucyStoner]

Do you want your children to grow up to be abused or be abusers in their intimate relationships? No, of course not. Do you want to increase the odds of your children having a happy, healthy intimate relationship? Of course. Do you deserve to live day in and day out with an abuser? Heck no. Your marriage is the model for marriage and intimacy your children are learning.

 

That is why divorce needs to be legal and available and why it is sometimes absolutely the best choice.

 

My MIL stayed for the kids. Till my husband (her youngest) was 21. Trust me, she is so much better off now and her kids would have both been much better off if she left a couple of decades earlier.

 

Abuse that we term emotional or verbal also takes a huge toll on your health.

[Rosie_0801]

Divorce allowed me to lower my expectations almost enough. I don't have to feel angry at being treated poorly because it's not his job to look after me in any way. My brother was surprised after I moved out. Even my worst sleep deprived, pms-y days aren't as bad as they used to be. It turns out I'm not always tetchy after all. That's just my reaction to stress, and I'm not always stressed any more. What changed is being able to be the person I should be instead of the person the dynamic was training me to be. I was developing character flaws I never had before.

 

Rosie

[Joanne]

Funny I don't remember even sharing much here...no husband bashing allowed and all that. But it was often very very bad. I did walk on egg shells a lot...However, I compartmentalized him and tried my best to enjoy the other parts of my life. I think I did.

 

I did that, too, for years. 10+ years in AA and a church going Christian made me very aware of "my part" and to try to act my way into a good marriage. Books like Power of a Praying Wife had me focus on my behavior.

 

I thought if I could just fix me, it would be enough.

 

I also (tried) to enjoy the "other parts" of my life. This was made easier by the fact that he was gone so much with "work" (and wife number 4 :lol::lol:).

 

When he was home, the egg shell walking was awful.

[Kaleidoscope]

These are great questions for your pastor. A forum is only going to confuse you and lead you through confusing misunderstandings. And this really is a spiritual question. My husband is a pastor and I know he would be disturbed if a parishanor brought this to forum instead of him. May God grant healing through His son.

 

Thanks. I know though what the church would say. This wasnt an attempt to get advice to my situation though or bash my spouse. I just truly didnt understand the advantages that might come with getting a divorce. To hear that I had to talk to somebody other than a pastor.

[Negin]

This is an incredibly insightful and honest thread. I really hope that it doesn't get deleted.

[Elizabeth in MN]

If there is verbal abuse going on then it can be in the best interest of the abusee to leave the marriage for the sake of their mental health. It's also in the best interest of the children because it teaches the children that the abuse is wrong and should not be tolerated.

 

Staying together for "the sake of the children" is really hard on the children. Kids are not dumb, they figure things like that out. Unfortunately this can lead to suicide. My Dad had to help a father and mother who had stayed together for their daughter. In her suicide note she said "now my parents can divorce and be happy again".

 

As a survivor of an abusive marriage I would advise on seeking your freedom. My daughter is happier and healthier for it, and I love myself again. In my experience I had no idea how beaten down I was until I was freed from the daily abuse and neglect.

[GWOB]

This post is coming from a woman who is unabashedly Christian and happily married to a person who keeps her grounded and out of jail.

 

Look, I know what the Bible says about divorce. I get that. However, I just cannot accept that the God I know would want anyone to remain in a terrible situation. That just does nothing for your walk with Jesus. I lived the first 18 years of my life with "Christian" parents who were physically, verbally, and emotionally abusive. It has taken years for me to even be in a position to start to heal spiritually.

 

Honey, you just do what you have to do to survive. You don't have to put up with crap like you describe. I may have no theological basis, but I honestly feel as though God cries when He sees His children being abused in such a way. What you describe is not even kinda the type of marriage described in the Bible. You deserve so much more. Your kids deserve so much more. Marriage can be such a wonderful, fulfilling thing. Every child of Christ deserves that. Jesus, awesome compassionate soul that he was, didn't put up with crap. You don't have to put up with crap. If your dh is neglecting his Jesus duties, do not feel obligated to over-compensate for him. You have kids! If you are a Christian, you have a responsibility to raise them in Christ. Christ would never abuse His children. That's just not how He rolls.

 

Of course, I will add in the generic saying that you need counseling and all that. Divorce sucks. However, I really don't thing God expects you to live with the suckiness

 

Just one lady's opinion.