Am I Sheltering My 11 Year old.. or..

[kolamum]

So tell me is your 11 year old responsible for:

 

Feeding all farm pets by oneself

Running all errands around entire home

watching a 4 year old & being utterly responsible for said 4 year old outside at all times, & sometimes within the home without any adult present

going to bed when they so choose

picking their own dietary needs {ie M&M's for breakfast, & caffeine laden soda whenever the heck they want}

Excepted, without prior knowledge, to teach themselves school from pure text books that are at least a grade above them

Use to being called names by the adults in their life

 

 

I'm currently staying with family while I'm traveling, & I'm just utterly gobsmacked by the idiocy of the parenting I'm witnessing. The 11 year old in the home I'm staying in has such an unreasonable amount of responsibility upon their shoulders I wonder exactly when the child gets to simply be.. well, a child!

 

 

The first night I put my kids to bed I was informed, point blank, that said 11 year old went to bed when they wanted & generally it was after all adults were asleep. Said parent thought it was adorable that said 11 year old often tucked said parent in at night. SERIOUSLY?!?! This is CUTE?!

 

Yeah, said 11 year old has gladly skipped off to shower & bed when my children went to bed. Said child hasn't been ripped out of bed early once since we've been here to do said parent's bidding at 6 am, thus said child has slept 10-10.5 hours everyday this week. I was told said child only needed minimal sleep except during growth spurts. :glare:

 

Said child can also do own food, whatever whenever. My children slept in today, & weren't having breakfast when this one was. Said 11 year old opened up a fresh packet of M&M's for breakfast while said Adult cracked open a diet soda & told said child to make said adult a pb&j. Previous mornings said 11 year old has eaten something semi decent while watching my children eat their normal breakfast {of which said 11 year old didn't want, but was welcome to.}

 

I get this kids are responsible for pets, but all the barn animals? On their own? I grew up on a farm & as never solely responsible for all the pets at any one time. It was always a tag team effort & a buddy system. Accidents happen people! Said parent then griped & mocked said child for incorrectly feeding one of the barn animals. :glare:

 

Don't even get me started on the school thing. I could just slap people over this one. Knowing the situation, but acting like I didn't I even offered said parent BRAND NEW $100 worth or curriculum that was AT this child's grade level. It was planned out so child could easily follow it while parent was at work, but it was "not needed, I have this taken care of."

 

I'm truly at a loss for words. Said 11 year old does every speck of bidding to the point where during any group activity this week if someone says, "Oo, drat I forgot...." Said 11 year old sighs & says, "I'll get it." :001_huh: :blink: :thumbdown:

 

Then, during one of those odd you dont know why it happened moments said parents tells me how said 11 year old is also teaching a few classes said parent is responsible for, "in exchange for mobile phone minutes.." Yeah, all $30 worth. Okay, so I get teaching said child responsibility for what she wants, but I see it as another lame bottomed attempted to get out of doing the work said parent is responsible for because they've got a child to do their bidding.

 

If there was a hopping up & down spitting beans out of their mouth kinda smile face right now, I'd be using it. No, seriously, I would.

[Catwoman]

That poor child! :(

[Caitilin]

Scary! :(:confused: :(

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Unfiltered reaction:

 

For Pete's sake. You witnessed this with your own eyes? Contact the authorities!

 

She's a slave. She's ill-fed, untended, sleep-deprived, and made to feed and supervise a very small child AND her parents. She's uneducated and overworked. She's berated for being unable to work like an adult, and parental affection is withheld.

 

What else is needed? Beatings? She needs help!

 

After-a-moment's-thought reaction:

 

I'm sorry if I sounded like I was scolding you. I would have been gobsmacked, too, and need to process this a bit before acting. But what do you think you'll do?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Tibbie Dunbar

[Catwoman]

For Pete's sake. You witnessed this with your own eyes? Contact the authorities!

 

She's a slave. She's ill-fed, untended, sleep-deprived, and made to feed and supervise a very small child AND her parents. She's uneducated and overworked. She's berated for being unable to work like an adult, and parental affection is withheld.

 

What else is needed? Beatings? She needs help!

 

:iagree:

 

Does the kid have normal grandparents you could contact? I might try that first, to see if there's a family member who could help the kid, but otherwise, it sounds like that family needs professional help, and although I would worry about doing it, I would report what I had seen.

[GWOB]

That's not ok.

 

I just recently started leaving my 12yo dd alone with my other little people. Never more than an hour, maybe once a month. When we had chickens, she shared chicken-feeding duty with ds, dh, and I. Dishes are done by everyone (except the 5yo, who would break everything) on a rotating basis. We do put 12yo to bed at a certain time, but give her the freedom to read for an extra 30 minutes. And this child would never be allowed to choose her own diet (barring a sudden moral opposition to meat or something similar). The kid would eat nothing but cheese poofs and Pepsi. Before I read your post, I thought I was a bit lenient with her. Now? I'm good.

 

I was my psychotic parents' glorified slave/babysitter. Hated it with a passion. Still working through those issues. I feel for that 11yo girl.

[Hoot]

What an awful life for that poor girl. It is sad, yes. But, unless the laws are different in Australia, nothing is likely to be done about it even if you do report it. My MIL just retired from working with Child Protective Services and they are required to walk away from FAR worse than this. She is a slave, but she is also being fed, she has a roof over her head, and she is being educated in some fashion. This is not a case of outright physical abuse and neglect in the eyes of the law, but rather a set of vastly different parenting choices.

[besroma]

That is so sad. I feel horrible for that child. The parents are completely selfish.

[Melissa in Australia]

unfortunately I have seen families that do something similar.

I know a family where the 15 year old has so many chores that she doesn't have time to do any school work.

A different family had some sort of system where the teen daughter (13) was expected to do all of the physical aspects of raising her many younger siblings, including some sort of newborn toilet training where the newborn would not wear nappies but be taken to the toilet every so many minutes. If the newborn soiled his clothes, the 13 year old would be punished.

Sometimes I think these types of people are attracted to homeschooling because they are trying to avoid government interference over the way they are treating their children. They also always seem to have the same sort of religion. I don't know if there is a connection or not though.

[trlt]

I had a cousin that was treated this way. I was younger than her and I was always so sad to see her because she was basically a slave to her mom. My parent's biggest regret in life is not doing something about the situation.

[kolamum]

There is a grandparent, who is forbidden to do xyz. The grandparent has tried to suggest that the school work is too much. She's tried to suggest that the child need this or that, but the parent always goes off the handle.

 

However, the grandparent is the one who told me that the child goes to bed when she's ready, but even if she did go to bed at a normal hour she could just slip on her tv & stream netflix through it apparently.

 

I've also been told by a few people, grandparent included, that the child has every intention of leaving when she's 18. Hitting the road & never looking back. Sadly, I suspect said parent would attempt to follow.

 

Said parent has a host of issues, always has. As in, I'm best at everything & shall be center of attention or else..

[AimeeM]

Well, my 11 year old does go to bed when she wants - but that has more to do with her medication than anything else :glare:.

Her only chores are to take out the recycling and clean her bedroom.

She *is* very, very helpful with her younger brothers. She loves spending time with them. She is also, however, well known for giving them things I've said "no" to previously :tongue_smilie: (like chocolate).

I do leave her alone with the 3 year old sometimes if I need to run across the street to the pharmacy.

As per her doctor's orders, she can eat anything remotely healthy in the morning for breakfast. She hates breakfast foods, so she often has a sandwich or left overs :D.

 

On a more serious note, I would contact the grandmother. I doubt CPS will do anything because she is being educated in some fashion, she is being fed, she is clothed, and she isn't being beaten. Sad but true.

[Harriet Vane]

Some children that I love and have helped care for were/are in a similar situation. I believe their parent to be mentally ill. It has been quite difficult, not least because the parent is not specifically abusive and does, in fact, love the children even though there is significant neglect. None of the neglect in this family's life is at the criminal level, though, so the family just limps along. The saving grace for this family is the fact that the kids are in a traditional school setting. I believe wholeheartedly in homeschooling, but for children in an unhappy home a traditional school setting can give them at least a portion of what is missing.

 

One concern that I have for the child in your post is for physical abuse. That level of work and obedience and compliance doesn't come easily, and if the mother is verbally nasty right in front of others, then it wouldn't surprise me if there is more happening behind closed doors. That is NOT an assumption that I would make, but rather a significant concern. Keep an eye on the family, and if you get a sense that there is actual abuse or neglect (beatings, deprivation of food or shelter, etc.) then don't second-guess yourself, but go ahead and report it.

[kolamum]

I should probably clarify, the parent in question & said child live with the grandparent.

 

The grandparent is not happy with what goes on, but figures she can defuse as much as she can, but has to be careful of said parent snaps & threatens to leave or just acts a worse & total jerk causing more problems then you can imagine.

 

I don't think it helps that said grandparent is use to this carp. As in, so was I. I grew up with this said parent as a sibling who use to behave like a total icky person then too. Said parent/teen/child way or the highway. This said parent has been known to scream, tantrum, & storm out of own parties & then come back because said parent forgot to collect her gifts. :glare: I joke not.

 

Thus, I think said child is simply use to it. When said parent threw a tantrum yesterday said child became quiet, withdrawn, & slightly sulky. Parent blamed the thing that triggered said parent's tantrum. When in actual fact said child was sad because she knew she'd have to do as said parent wanted & thus not be permitted to stay & play with all the other children. Why? Because said parent didn't like a relative that was suppose to be visiting. I managed to defuse the entire situation by suggesting someone tell said relative I wouldn't be available for said visit until next week when annoying parent was back to work.

 

If you only knew what said parent said to me upon my arrival here.. after not seeing me in 5 years you'd get a really good feeling for how said parent normally behaves.

[Harriet Vane]

I should probably clarify, the parent in question & said child live with the grandparent.

 

The grandparent is not happy with what goes on, but figures she can defuse as much as she can, but has to be careful of said parent snaps & threatens to leave or just acts a worse & total jerk causing more problems then you can imagine.

 

I don't think it helps that said grandparent is use to this carp. As in, so was I. I grew up with this said parent as a sibling who use to behave like a total icky person then too. Said parent/teen/child way or the highway. This said parent has been known to scream, tantrum, & storm out of own parties & then come back because said parent forgot to collect her gifts. :glare: I joke not.

 

Thus, I think said child is simply use to it. When said parent threw a tantrum yesterday said child became quiet, withdrawn, & slightly sulky. Parent blamed the thing that triggered said parent's tantrum. When in actual fact said child was sad because she knew she'd have to do as said parent wanted & thus not be permitted to stay & play with all the other children. Why? Because said parent didn't like a relative that was suppose to be visiting. I managed to defuse the entire situation by suggesting someone tell said relative I wouldn't be available for said visit until next week when annoying parent was back to work.

 

If you only knew what said parent said to me upon my arrival here.. after not seeing me in 5 years you'd get a really good feeling for how said parent normally behaves.

 

So seriously, this sounds like a personality disorder or mental illness. Have you considered this?

 

Not that that would lift the responsibility to treat people with respect, but it might help you try to make sense of this person and your relationship.

 

My heart goes out to the poor kid trapped there. It's truly agonizing to watch this happen.

 

:grouphug:

[AndrewsDK]

As a foster parent, I would say report it to CPS.

 

It IS very unlikely that they would be able to do anything. But, it might be a wake-up call for the parent. Also, if you report it, and Grandma reports it, and anyone else who notices reports it, at some point, CPS is going to be able to do something about it.

[Stayseeliz]

My 11yo's responsibilities:

 

Walking the puppies during the day with his 8yo sister.

Watching 4yo DD or 1yo DD as needed while I'm making business calls, etc. I don't leave home and it's not for very long.

Folding all towels.

Keeping room clean.

Folding and putting away own clothes.

Having writing assignments completed for co-op.

Completing math and LA for himself.

Helping with other chores as needed.

 

The child you're talking about sounds like he's being taken advantage of for sure.

[Mommy22alyns]

That poor kid. :(

[Χά�ων]

From what you describe I think there is some mental health issues with the parent.

 

I hold the view that children are capable of a lot more the society expects of them, my 8 year has what many would view as an unreasonable amount of responsibility, including:

 

-Stacking firewood and bring firewood in daily, sometimes making 3-5 trips.

-Folding and putting away laundry

-Feed and care for turkey

-Help take trash to the curb (our drive way is over 400ft long)

-Mow the fenced yard

-Helping with the hay

-Weed-eat the front yard as needed

-Help as needed with planting and harvesting of the garden

-Feed his dog

-Help clean and maintain the house (clothes to the laundry room, pick up trash)

-Handwash the dishes (we do not have a dishwasher)

 

I do not send him out to do these things while I sit inside eating bonbons and watching day time TV, I am almost always working with or near him. The only exception is bringing in firewood. He does that while I am fixing breakfast.

 

We are just starting to build our homestead and with time I foresee adding more responsiblities. The goal is to grow and raise over 85% of our own food. Next year we hope to get chickens and he will be in charge of checking their water, feeding them and gathering the eggs when they start laying. As the fruit trees and berry bushes start to mature they will be added as a part of his responsibilities as well.

[kolamum]

The thing that bugs me about the barn chores alone is that the barn is depilated. As in crumbling down. It wasn't in good shape 20 some odd years ago when I was doing barn chores with the then barn animals.

 

On top of it, despite livestock the fields are overrun to the point where the child must walk via the road. Said child has been hit by a car before for not watching for traffic. On top of that, the barn yard itself is VERY overrun with weeds. They had a horse die recently, suspected a snake bite. Yet this child goes out there, alone. Sometimes, she's made to take the 4 year old with her.

 

On top of that, there is a Mountain Lion roaming around. If the path to get there & back were clear. If the barn could be seen from the home. If people remembered she was down there. If, if, if.. I'm not saying I never ever in my life did barn chores alone, but not at 11.

 

 

Yes, I do TOTALLY believe this parent has a MAJOR mental illness, but said parent doesn't think so. Said parent can weave a lie so thick you'll believe you told a lie yourself. Gaslighting comes to mind BIG time here. There's a Psychiatrist in the family who absolutely, beyond a shadow of a doubt, believes Said Adult has quite a few personality disorders. However, because Said Adult is an Adult, getting medication isn't gonna happen, kwim?

 

Same said adult screamed at me tonight when I told said child's coach of for being a total jerk to 11 year olds. I told Said Adult I didn't care what the he double hockeysticks they said, no adult was going to stand in front of me & blame any child for the downfall of a simple football play, especially when a team is winning by 32 flipping points. I told her any adult who stood by & watched it was simply out of touch with reality. *sigh* Yeah, I'm considered a jerk. Yeah, I so don't care.

[In the Rain]

It sounds like the poor girl has a miserable life. :(

[Anne in CA]

Both of my parents gave me way too much responsibility at this age. I forgot how bad it was until reading your post, but it was still not his bad. I know for a fact that no children's services agency is going to care, but I am sad for you and her. She has no childhood left, it is used up already.

[phathui5]

Feeding all farm pets by oneself

It depends whose idea it was to have the pets. Are these the child's pets?

 

Running all errands around entire home

My 11 year old does a lot around our house, at least as much as I do and sometimes more if I'm feeding the baby or trying to get studying done.

 

watching a 4 year old & being utterly responsible for said 4 year old outside at all times, & sometimes within the home without any adult present

That seems reasonable to me. I was babysitting when I was 12 and around here there is a "Safe Sitter" class that children can take once they turn 11.

 

going to bed when they so choose

I'm not comfortable with that and do generally require our oldest to be in bed by 10pm. Some parents are ok with letting their child choose their bedtime and I wouldn't care what another parent did about bedtime.

 

picking their own dietary needs {ie M&M's for breakfast, & caffeine laden soda whenever the heck they want}

No, I think that people need nutritious food and of my kid were regularly eating in an unhealthy way, I would help them choose healthier foods that they enjoyed.

 

Excepted, without prior knowledge, to teach themselves school from pure text books that are at least a grade above them

Is the child successfully learning from the textbooks? My oldest does work several "grade" levels ahead. I think it's important not to take the idea of grade level too seriously.

 

Use to being called names by the adults in their life

That is unacceptable.

[kiwik]

In new Zealand it is illegal for a child under 14 to babysit or be left alone without reasonable supervision. I'm guessing that is not the case where you are.

[phathui5]

In new Zealand it is illegal for a child under 14 to babysit or be left alone without reasonable supervision. I'm guessing that is not the case where you are.

 

It is not the case here in Oregon, and I'm glad. I was babysitting during the day at age 12 and from 5pm to 2-3am at age 13. I opened a checking account at age 13 and had enough to pay for a car at 16.

[kolamum]

Excepted, without prior knowledge, to teach themselves school from pure text books that are at least a grade above them

Is the child successfully learning from the textbooks? My oldest does work several "grade" levels ahead. I think it's important not to take the idea of grade level too seriously.

 

No. The child doesn't understand the information or the concepts. The grandparent was forbidden to help in anyway. Thus parent would scream at said child for not completing work or getting said work wrong. Grandparent finally got through to parent to allow grandparent to go over studies with said child.

[Χά�ων]

On top of it, despite livestock the fields are overrun to the point where the child must walk via the road. Said child has been hit by a car before for not watching for traffic. On top of that, the barn yard itself is VERY overrun with weeds. They had a horse die recently, suspected a snake bite. Yet this child goes out there, alone. Sometimes, she's made to take the 4 year old with her.

 

Honestly, if it were me and I would find a near by farmer willing to brushhog the property. Some will even do it for free in exchange for the hay. It can be done without telling to parent and while the parent is at work. I would buy a push mower for the 11 year old and teach them how to use it so the child can maintain a mowed path to and from the barn. From what you describe it seems that you can't change the parent or rescue the child but there are little things you can do to help make things a bit easier or safer for the child.

[mommymilkies]

I don't think it's all bad. At that age, I was responsible for a LOT and had no bed time. I do leave my 11 yo to watch the little kids outside in the yard, but never out of sight of the windows. She also watches the other kids at the school playground across the street from our house. Some kids like responsibility. I'm pretty sure if I left for the weekend, she'd be ecstatic and I'd come back to a clean house and clean/well fed kids. :lol:

 

Overall, I agree with phathui5. I would need more info. It is completely common for kids to care for the farm animals in my area and when I was growing up, especially if they picked them. And it's completely normal for kids that age to watch other kids. Or feed themselves and put themselves to bed. I always was told I'm overbearing in my control over bedtime and feeding my kids. :lol: Most kids that age around here pick what they want for dinner, from my experience at sports talking to parents. Usually chips, candy bars, cereal, whatever most nights.

 

It is unacceptable, however, to be called names.

[Murphy101]

 

Overall, I agree with phathui5.

 

It is unacceptable, however, to be called names.

 

Count me 3 as agreeing with her.

Name calling isn't particularly nice, but neither is it illegal.

I grew up similarly. Minus the home schooling. Some people are naturally more compliant than others, so I wouldn't assume abuse brought them into compliance. Me? I'd have flip my mother the bird and cussed right back at her. One of my sisters? She would have totally just sighed and did it without even being ordered.

 

If I used your reasoning for her not to go out to the barn, my kids wouldn't be allowed to play out by the stream in the woods or climb trees. Snakes and such are just part of the adventure of living. *shrugs*

 

Lots of kids turn 18 and leave without looking back for lots of reasons. *shrug*

Sure I hope none of mine do, but I don't think it's always about abuse either.

 

 

ETA: the girl sounds quite wonderful with lazy rude parents, but I don't think that's enough to call CPS.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

One element of it might be kind of normal.

 

Doing all the farm work alone OR

having the total care of the younger sibling OR

feeding the parents OR

being denied an education OR

not being allowed to sleep OR

being sustained on junk food OR

being berated and verbally abused....

 

but all of it? What a horrible version of childhood.

 

Maybe nothing could be done, but I'm astounded at the posters in this thread who think this might be kind of OK. If if was fine for Cinderella to be Cinderella, what was the point of the story?

[AimeeM]

Just because it's common or legal, doesn't make it right.

 

 

I don't think it's all bad. At that age, I was responsible for a LOT and had no bed time. I do leave my 11 yo to watch the little kids outside in the yard, but never out of sight of the windows. She also watches the other kids at the school playground across the street from our house. Some kids like responsibility. I'm pretty sure if I left for the weekend, she'd be ecstatic and I'd come back to a clean house and clean/well fed kids. :lol:

 

Overall, I agree with phathui5. I would need more info. It is completely common for kids to care for the farm animals in my area and when I was growing up, especially if they picked them. And it's completely normal for kids that age to watch other kids. Or feed themselves and put themselves to bed. I always was told I'm overbearing in my control over bedtime and feeding my kids. :lol: Most kids that age around here pick what they want for dinner, from my experience at sports talking to parents. Usually chips, candy bars, cereal, whatever most nights.

 

It is unacceptable, however, to be called names.

[mommymilkies]

Just because it's common or legal, doesn't make it right.

 

Hey, I don't let my kids eat junk or put themselves to bed when they want. Doesn't mean I would call CPS on someone if they did, kwim? I agree from reading updated posts (I only read the OP) that it sounds like a bad situation, but those individual things by themselves do not ring alarms for me for neglect or abuse-other than the verbal abuse. And name calling can be taken in different ways. What sort of name calling are we talking here?

[AimeeM]

Hey, I don't let my kids eat junk or put themselves to bed when they want. Doesn't mean I would call CPS on someone if they did, kwim? I agree from reading updated posts (I only read the OP) that it sounds like a bad situation, but those individual things by themselves do not ring alarms for me for neglect or abuse-other than the verbal abuse. And name calling can be taken in different ways. What sort of name calling are we talking here?

I wouldn't call CPS either - because it's a waste of breath... here, at least. Here parents are free to beat their children with belts if they choose; I sincerely doubt they would care about barn chores or an 11 year old shouldering parenting duties for a much younger child.

I didn't mean that anyone SHOULD call cps (which is why I included "legal"). I only meant that just because they are doing nothing ILLEGAL, doesn't mean it isn't harmful. Perhaps not CPS worthy, but still harmful.

[Retired]

i know a homeschool family of 10 that used their daughter as the slave IMO. She got up at 6:00 and fed all the younger kids and started their homeschool while mom slept in. She was a stressed but very responsible young girl. I and several parents spoke to this family. I was told well "we let her have her own lap top. She doesn't have a bedtime cause we want to reward her for being so responsible" :smash: They were a pastor family. They routinely left her in total care of all kids and left them their whole weekends.

 

the church called them out on their behavior. It changed for awhile but basically they just collected kids bio and adopted and their oldest daughter did the parenting. I know dhr was notified but don't know why nothing was done. We left the church and lost touch with the family. Then some years later she reached out to my son on face book. He helped her to go to DHR at the age of 16. The kids were removed finally.

 

This girl was popping Excedrin like candy at age 11 cause of all her headaches. It was so da*mn sad.

[Wolfmeis]

So without being defensive of my idiocy in parenting,:glare: I will answer your questions with regards to my now 12 yo daughter:

 

So tell me is your 11 year old responsible for:

 

Feeding all farm pets by oneself [yes, when it is her day to do so.]

 

Running all errands around entire home [I don't know what this means, but if by errands you mean chores, she is responsible for some significant chores every day, as are her siblings]

 

watching a 4 year old & being utterly responsible for said 4 year old outside at all times, & sometimes within the home without any adult present I would trust my daughter to mind any toddler+ aged child by herself without me present. She could do this up to a couple of hours at least.

 

going to bed when they so choose We are homeschoolers, so yes. I do require her to be in her bedroom by ten*

 

picking their own dietary needs {ie M&M's for breakfast, & caffeine laden soda whenever the heck they want} I don't usually buy those items, but provided that she is eating well otherwise, then she is allowed to choose her own snacks from what we have available.

 

Excepted, without prior knowledge, to teach themselves school from pure text books that are at least a grade above them Depends on the textbook. Did you test the child to know what her grade levels are?

 

Use to being called names by the adults in their life I assume you mean in a derogatory fashion. No, this doesn't happen.

 

It sounds like you wandered upon a variant of unschooler and you're a bit shell shocked. I would remind you that even from your description, this farmchild has an amazingly better life than the average farmchild from just 75 years ago. I see nothing wrong at ALL with a child of this age being given self-sufficiency, freedom and resilience. It's not sounding like an academically rigorous environment, and I understand that those of us who post here tend towards that, but it does sound like the child you're describing is learning how to be an adult in the fashion her parents have chosen.

 

*With regards to the bedtime thing, that answers your "gets to be a kid" question. I am far more structured here than you are describing in your idiot parents tale, but I definitely wouldn't be appalled, just capable of saying "not my thing."

Quote:

Originally Posted by kolamum

I've also been told by a few people, grandparent included, that the child has every intention of leaving when she's 18. Hitting the road & never looking back. Sadly, I suspect said parent would attempt to follow.

 

Said parent has a host of issues, always has. As in, I'm best at everything & shall be center of attention or else..

 

Her leaving would be the natural consequences, but she's going to be very prepared to make her own way and be done with her parents if she's truly being mistreated.

 

THIS, in the bold, this would concern me. But again, I had a bona fide psycho mother and I really was a slave for her. Indeed, I did leave at 17 and never went back. If parents are this bad, the girl can get out if she needs. But it looks like she has a give and take thing going on with regards to privilege and freedom.

 

It really sounds, based on your further few posts, that the parent (your sibling?) has issues and you feel bad for her kid. I get that. And if you are this close to the family, then perhaps you should supply a copy of The Teenage Liberation Handbook to the child. But really, your negative interactions with the parent color everything you're seeing. We can't hear tone over the internet, so I can believe you that something is off, but your bulleted list does not describe some deathly terrible life.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Wolfmeis

[Wolfmeis]

double post

Edited October 7, 2012 by Wolfmeis

[Lang Syne Boardie]

Her parent wouldn't let the grandparent help her with her school when she didn't understand. That's not unschooling. That's deliberately keeping her ignorant while maintaining a facade of homeschooling by having her sit down with "schoolbooks" now and then.

 

If a farm family 75 years ago treated their kids like plantation slaves instead of working alongside them, their neighbors would have had a low opinion of them, too.

 

Slothful parenting and overburdening one's children are not virtuous in any age.

 

When a child works very, very hard because the whole family must work hard, and she's rewarded with affection, care, and the best food the family can manage, that's called rugged American independence.

 

When she works like a dog while her mother sleeps and also has to raise the children her mother bore, that's called neglect.

[happypamama]

One element of it might be kind of normal.

 

Doing all the farm work alone OR

having the total care of the younger sibling OR

feeding the parents OR

being denied an education OR

not being allowed to sleep OR

being sustained on junk food OR

being berated and verbally abused....

 

but all of it? What a horrible version of childhood.

 

Maybe nothing could be done, but I'm astounded at the posters in this thread who think this might be kind of OK. If if was fine for Cinderella to be Cinderella, what was the point of the story?

 

Her parent wouldn't let the grandparent help her with her school when she didn't understand. That's not unschooling. That's deliberately keeping her ignorant while maintaining a facade of homeschooling by having her sit down with "schoolbooks" now and then.

 

If a farm family 75 years ago treated their kids like plantation slaves instead of working alongside them, their neighbors would have had a low opinion of them, too.

 

Slothful parenting and overburdening one's children are not virtuous in any age.

 

When a child works very, very hard because the whole family must work hard, and she's rewarded with affection, care, and the best food the family can manage, that's called rugged American independence.

 

When she works like a dog while her mother sleeps and also has to raise the children her mother bore, that's called neglect.

 

Yes to what Tibbie said. *Some* of that might not be a big deal -- having M&Ms for breakfast once in a while isn't going to kill a kid, and I think it's reasonable for an 11yo to be able to watch a 4yo occasionally -- but all of it together is not cool. (And some of that is not acceptable at all.)

[RanchGirl]

My heart breaks for this child! Can you talk to a lawyer and to your niece? Find out what the laws are there as far as when children have a say in their lives. If your niece wanted to live with you, and grandma supported it, at what age would that be legally possible?

 

Letting your niece know she has someone she can talk to and a way to contact you, and that your home is open to her, might be the best thing you can do for now if CPS is unable to act at this point.

[justLisa]

Well if that is unschooling you just totally screwed my view of it.

 

This IS horrible. Maybe on one day, one of those things may be ok sans the parent attitude. But all of it? No way.

 

I know a family who's children literally do everything. The mother has "social obligations" and cannot be bothered by anything. She sips tea and shops for jewelry while the kids slave away. And they don't have a single kid item in their house either.

[RanchGirl]

Thinking more, could you suggest the children spend holidays or summers with you (to give the mom a "break") And since it's her farm, can't Grandma hire someone to do the chores and take some of the pressure off? Especially the dangerous stuff.

[Wolfmeis]

I tend to agree that this is not a good situation, but again, this is a tale that has been strewn out over pages. I am much less concerned with this girls' responsibilities than I am with her relationship to the adults in her life. THAT is a major issue, and one I would probably engage IRT if I were OP. Even so, I haven't seen yet whether the girl herself is unhappy, or whether a bunch of posters here think THEY would be unhappy in her situation.

 

The mom is starting to sound a lot like my crazy mother, and franklyI grew very tired of all the adults in my life who felt SO SORRY for me and thought my mom was SO BAD, but did not a ****ed thing to actually help me. It's compounded for this girl by the fact that she's homeschooled, and I think that has to be very isolating. My suggestion, as above, would be to provide the TLH. Better yet, empower the girl to enroll HERSELF in school. Empower her to help herself, to know she doesn't have to just suck it up until she's 17.

 

I stand by the idea, however, that if you compared a crunchy unschooling family and that first post, it's insulting. I am proud of my children and how responsible and knowledgeable they are. We are no longer unschoolers, and I fiercely protect their childhood, but I don't coddle them either. I simply think it's important to not that freedom does not equal neglect.

Edited October 7, 2012 by Wolfmeis
spacing

[Wolfmeis]

Thinking more, could you suggest the children spend holidays or summers with you (to give the mom a "break") And since it's her farm, can't Grandma hire someone to do the chores and take some of the pressure off? Especially the dangerous stuff.

 

Exactly. It's not just Mom who's culpable here.

[Murphy101]

Meh. To me this boils down to different attitudes for different folks.

 

It's not what I would do, but I don't think hard work is abuse and I don't think staying up late, sleeping in or eating m&ms or pop tarts or what all else I wouldn't serve my kids is abuse either. I don't think an 11 and 4 yr old having the freedom run of the farm is abuse.

 

Really it sounds like the OP shouldn't visit bc the parenting is so different that it's just asking for an argument.

 

It's not how *I* do things. But none of those things are abusive just bc you don't like it or just bc she does many things you don't like.

 

If grandma disagrees, then grandma can do as she likes and if her dd doesn't like - she can move out. Grandma can try for custody. (tho it sure sounds like grandma is benefitting too. )

 

So yeah. Your dd is sheltered. Yay you. Was this supposed to be a JAWM post?

[kolamum]

I don't have a daughter, & I did not ask people to just agree with me. :glare:

 

I have a very content & well adjust boy who has plenty of chores to do & still have time left over to be a kid. I have an 11 year old boy who watches his cousin & is totally stricken with how his cousin is treated. I think when a fellow 11 year old starts to notice something is amiss, there's something wrong with the picture.

 

The child is not unschooled. Pretty sure more unschoolers don't use textbooks. There is a lot untold here. I could easily become carried away by my anger of this situation. I live 6 continents away on a normal basis, my offering the child a place of refuge would be considered kidnapping. I have, however, always been a shoulder for said child to lean on, as has my husband.

 

 

ETA: Grandma is not benefitting. Not unless you call mental abuse towards an aging parent beneficial too. Grandparent hasn't told said parent to get the he.. out of dodge because said parent then threatens to take grandchild & run, never permitting Grandparent to see said grandchild again. I think it's a load of old tosh because there's no way in he.. that said parent would ever PAY for anything, but grandparent isn't willing to risk throwing the grandchild under the bus, so's to put it. Incase you hadn't noticed, I've only shared a minute amount of the situation, I was attempting not to unleash the entire load of dirty laundry. :glare:

Edited October 8, 2012 by kolamum

[JenC3]

Meh. To me this boils down to different attitudes for different folks.

 

It's not what I would do, but I don't think hard work is abuse and I don't think staying up late, sleeping in or eating m&ms or pop tarts or what all else I wouldn't serve my kids is abuse either. I don't think an 11 and 4 yr old having the freedom run of the farm is abuse.

 

Really it sounds like the OP shouldn't visit bc the parenting is so different that it's just asking for an argument.

 

It's not how *I* do things. But none of those things are abusive just bc you don't like it or just bc she does many things you don't like.

 

If grandma disagrees, then grandma can do as she likes and if her dd doesn't like - she can move out. Grandma can try for custody. (tho it sure sounds like grandma is benefitting too. )

 

So yeah. Your dd is sheltered. Yay you. Was this supposed to be a JAWM post?

 

Wow, I got a completely different view.

This is an abusive, neglectful, narcissistic, parent. I feel for the OP b/c unfortunately there is much she can do, but let the child know she can have a place to go if need be. Unfortunately this behavior will be transferred onto the 4 yr old once the 11 yr old is able to break away:(

[Slipper]

I think there's a fine line between independence and abuse. I would consider most of the list as probably okay, except for the name-calling. Name-calling is never okay.

 

My 11 yr old now has a lot of responsibility (I increased her chores lately). She is also partially responsible for caring for her disabled 12 yr old sister and also watches after her younger sister. Depending on how this works out, depends on whether it is a burden. If they all want to go walking through the woods, they all enjoy it but the 11 yr old is in charge. I wouldn't consider that to be a "chore". Occasionally, I try to do an extra chore while 12 yr old is in the tub and ask 11 yr old to keep an eye on her. That would be a chore since the 11 yr old is basically stuck in the bathroom (although she's allowed to read or play games on her kindle).

 

She enjoys cooking and is responsible for helping DH in the morning with breakfast. At some point soon, she will take that over completely. (However, meat and breads are pre-cooked, so it's mostly microwave and eggs).

 

Although I want to be a classical home-schooler, I find myself leaning more towards eclectic and unschooling. We have textbooks. My 11 yr old teaches history to both herself and her younger sister. She asked if she could do it (we use SOTW) and after some thought, I agreed. She gives me a list of books and items she wants/needs. She reads the chapter out loud to her sister, asks her the review questions, organizes the projects and they both take the tests. It seems odd, but it works and she loves it. So does her sister.

 

I think it would all boil down to a child's happiness and over-all well-being. If the child in question is unhappy, stressed, crying and not well, then it isn't good, regardless of what she is doing. If the child loved every minute of the day, even if it seems like a lot, she's fine. And that would have nothing to do with your child being sheltered. Different kids enjoy and tolerate different things. :001_smile:

[Acorn]

Unschoolers definitely do use textbooks. It is hard to get a sense from just one post. Some of that list is fine for 11 year olds, imo. Maybe not all it to an extreme, everyday. My parents gave us independence for food and sleep. I shutter to think what I grew up eating (soda for breakfast everyday), but I have educated myself and do still have my original teeth. The only bedtime rule was that I had to still get up cheerfully in the morning, pack my own lunch and not miss the bus. I lived on a farm. By age 8, I did afternoon chores by myself and assisted with night ones. My dad did morning ones alone, so we found a good balance. I was in 7th grade and had my first babysitting job. I watched my brother, and two neighbors afterschool and all day on vacation days.

 

My own kids will be raised with less responsibilities somewhat due to changes in circumstances (no farm), and somewhat to a change in society (kids are more sheltered/ protected today). I think my friends would try to have me arrested if I let my kids eat what I ate at their age.

[Wolfmeis]

I don't have a daughter, & I did not ask people to just agree with me. :glare:

 

I have a very content & well adjust boy who has plenty of chores to do & still have time left over to be a kid. I have an 11 year old boy who watches his cousin & is totally stricken with how his cousin is treated. I think when a fellow 11 year old starts to notice something is amiss, there's something wrong with the picture.

 

The child is not unschooled. Pretty sure more unschoolers don't use textbooks. There is a lot untold here. I could easily become carried away by my anger of this situation. I live 6 continents away on a normal basis, my offering the child a place of refuge would be considered kidnapping. I have, however, always been a shoulder for said child to lean on, as has my husband.

 

 

ETA: Grandma is not benefitting. Not unless you call mental abuse towards an aging parent beneficial too. Grandparent hasn't told said parent to get the he.. out of dodge because said parent then threatens to take grandchild & run, never permitting Grandparent to see said grandchild again. I think it's a load of old tosh because there's no way in he.. that said parent would ever PAY for anything, but grandparent isn't willing to risk throwing the grandchild under the bus, so's to put it. In case you hadn't noticed, I've only shared a minute amount of the situation, I was attempting not to unleash the entire load of dirty laundry. :glare:

 

 

The more you write the more triggered I get. It really sounds so familiar. If your niece follows the path I trod, then she'll grow up to talk to you, but won't have anything to do with either of those women once she flees.

[Wolfmeis]

Unschoolers definitely do use textbooks. It is hard to get a sense from just one post. Some of that list is fine for 11 year olds, imo. Maybe not all it to an extreme, everyday. My parents gave us independence for food and sleep. I shutter to think what I grew up eating (soda for breakfast everyday), but I have educated myself and do still have my original teeth. The only bedtime rule was that I had to still get up cheerfully in the morning, pack my own lunch and not miss the bus. I lived on a farm. By age 8, I did afternoon chores by myself and assisted with night ones. My dad did morning ones alone, so we found a good balance. I was in 7th grade and had my first babysitting job. I watched my brother, and two neighbors afterschool and all day on vacation days.

 

My own kids will be raised with less responsibilities somewhat due to changes in circumstances (no farm), and somewhat to a change in society (kids are more sheltered/ protected today). I think my friends would try to have me arrested if I let my kids eat what I ate at their age.

 

 

Right. It's the parental dynamic that is concerning, not the lifestyle description.