Creepy or not creepy? Aka-- my son is furious with me

[Ravin]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that he kept the boys' phone numbers and used them for unofficial purposes. This is not someone who should be trusted with confidential information again.

 

He needs to be booted from his volunteer position for that alone, never mind the heavier stuff already discussed.

 

I'm a member of an organization that got burned with a lawsuit, and this sort of behavior was what led to it. Inviting kids met at youth activities with the organization to an unofficial activity at the person's house (and parental permission didn't stop the lawsuit), which then led to extremely inappropriate behavior.

 

We now do background checks and have a minimum-2 deep rule modeled on BSA.

[Lovedtodeath]

I haven't read all the posts but do be sure and make sure that your church has some sort of child protection policy in place. It should include volunteer screening and reference checks.

When I heard about the prosecution involved in the Working with Children Act in Australia I assumed that we had laws like this was in place here. We don't? If not, That needs to change.

Sex offender registries:

Like I said, I am flabbergasted that it is even a possibility that the church did not already do this. I thought it was the law. If it is not, I am seriously freaked out about taking my children to church.

 

Now I have quoted some highlights that I don't want lost in the pages and pages here...

 

I agree.

 

But, I have a suggestion. Sit down with your son. Go to the Boy Scouts of America website and watch their Youth Protection training video. Maybe that would help your son understand why it is a red flag.

 

http://www.scouting.org/Training/YouthProtection.aspx

 

 

I think the consensus is clear; the youth minister volunteer was wrong, whatever his motivation. You've received great advice on how to handle the church so I have nothing to add.

 

For your son, I would spend time letting him know that he is not in trouble. He did the right thing coming to you and asking your permission. He was right to tell you about the unauthorized trip to the ranch, and he is not in trouble for going. He trusted a representative of the church, BUT he needs to know there are people willing to do him harm and most of the time, they will be someone in a position of trust and authority. I think your son needs love, care, and understanding right now. Beyond his disappointment at missing out on a "fun time," he may view himself as the cause of his parents' great distress. Let him know you love him and fear others hurting him.

 

Do let him know that he should always tell you when an adult is contacting him directly. He can ALWAYS tell you anything; many predators try to isolate children by making the contact a secret or creating fear the parents will be upset or disgusted with the child. I think open communication and lots of individual attention are needed to help your son handle the situation.

[Tammyla]

I'm hoping the meeting with your pastor goes well.

 

Volunteer - is creepy, grooming, inappropriate, and needs to be removed asap. Hopefully he is the most clueless, innocent idiot on the planet, but children are at risk.

 

I agree with the other posters on so many things; you may want to contact your local police dept.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Tammyla

[Pippen]

Hubby and I are on the same page.

 

We don't have the pastors phone number, Dallas churches don't do that. LOL

Hubby did send him an email asking for an urgent face-to-face meeting, hopefully for coffee first thing in the morning, or at worst, tomorrow after he gets home from work.

 

.

 

If the meeting hasn't already been arranged I'd also suggest requesting a member of the church leadership board be included in the meeting. If not, make sure to follow up so they are aware of the seriousness of the situation.

[Lolly]

If you haven't gotten ahold of someone in authority with the church yet, DO IT NOW! This is not something that can be put off until later. This trip needs to be stopped. This man needs to be spoken to immediately about his behavior.

[Whereneverever]

When I heard about the prosecution involved in the Working with Children Act in Australia I assumed that we had laws like this was in place here. We don't? If not, That needs to change. Like I said, I am flabbergasted that it is even a possibility that the church did not already do this. I thought it was the law. If it is not, I am seriously freaked out about taking my children to church.

 

Now I have quoted some highlights that I don't want lost in the pages and pages here...

 

It is not the law in most states. You'd need to contact your church to see if they have back ground checked the pastors and other people working with children. A LOT of people in churches are pushing strongly for background checks for all clergy and other youth workers, but there is a lot of pushback against it, too. :(

[bobbeym]

I'd call CPS and, if you have any friends who are cops, I'd give one of them a call too and have them do some checking up on him.

 

This is DEFINITE grooming behavior, and taking a bunch of boys somewhere alone, without permission or other adults in his vehicle is SO WRONG.

 

In fact, if you know his full name, check the online sexual predator reports for your area NOW.

 

ETA: Call the other parents tonight. Call the pastor when you've spoken to the other parents. This is SO WRONG.

 

:iagree: with this. It sounds way beyond creepy and further checking into this guy is needed. I definitely wouldn't let my ds be around him.

[SonshineLearner]

Maybe... Maybe.... just socially inappropriate. BUT, when YOU register "Creepy!!" then you need to listen to that inner voice... Even if it's not creepy... you can't ignore that you have that voice :(

[starwarsmomma]

Quick update: hubby did not hear back from the pastor this morning, so he went over there on the way to work. He took the kids' phone with the text on it, left a bit after 9am.

 

I just checked hubby's email, and there is now an email from the pastor (sent at 9:30) that he is in meetings but free at 2. I have to babysit neighbors kids-- mom is in labor! So I can't go, not sure what hubby will do.

[Element]

I would speak to pastor, remove kid from class probably no matter what pastor says (and no more mission trips with people who don't watch kids better than this), and talk long and hard with kid about why this all is a big fat No.

 

This could not be more creepy. You are entirely right to be utterly freaked out.

 

I totally agree with everything Tibbie said! This is NOT normal or acceptable behavior from someone who is a total stranger to you.

[Deniseibase]

I would speak to pastor, remove kid from class probably no matter what pastor says (and no more mission trips with people who don't watch kids better than this), and talk long and hard with kid about why this all is a big fat No.

 

This could not be more creepy. You are entirely right to be utterly freaked out.

 

:iagree: Even my 12 YO daughter says that is creepy.

[Dory]

Quick update: hubby did not hear back from the pastor this morning, so he went over there on the way to work. He took the kids' phone with the text on it, left a bit after 9am.

 

I just checked hubby's email, and there is now an email from the pastor (sent at 9:30) that he is in meetings but free at 2. I have to babysit neighbors kids-- mom is in labor! So I can't go, not sure what hubby will do.

 

 

Perhaps send him an email saying that a phone meeting could work then. I person would be better, but a phone meeting with him might be better than nothing.

[Katy]

I would respond that this is an EMERGENCY and there is a high probability that because laws were broken (taking children somewhere without permission is kidnapping) that the police will be involved and that he needs to cancel some appointments and fit you in ASAP.

[preoccupied]

The guy who abused me and my brother is very active in a church near Dallas (Midlothian). He's not on a sex offender registry though. I saw on his facebook that he went on a mission not that long ago. Looks like to Africa. I almost want to ask this guy's initials

 

Definitely creepy. I haven't read through all 17 pages yet, but I do hope you contacted the parents of the other kids. Mention the illegality of it to the minister and maybe he'll make time to discuss this with you.

Edited August 15, 2012 by preoccupied

[SebastianCat]

My DH & I are volunteer teachers in our youth group at church. We are encouraged to focus on being "relational" with the kids and to do social activities outside of official church activities. But EVERY single thing is open to parents (and usually entire families), NOT just the kids in the class. And we have 2 (unrelated) adults assigned to every class. Yes, we do have socials at our homes. But NO, we would never invite children to our home without also inviting the parents and having at least 2 adults present.

 

If a situation arose at church, (in a classroom siatuation) where one of those adults was absent and only one adult was available to teach a class, for instance, the class would be taught with an open door. The adult would sit where he/she could be clearly seen and heard through the open door at any time by someone supervising.

 

Every single person volunteering in any ministry that involves contact with children (under 18, and possibly even in college ministry) are background checked. For the safety of the children AND the men in our preschool ministry, men do not change diapers OR take children to the restrooms.

 

Like everyone else, my creep factor would be sky high in the OP's original situation. I would definitely classify this as an emergency for the sake of the other boys involved.

[momma2three]

I hope you have emailed the other parents. They need to know that their children were taken to this guy's ranch without their knowledge.

[Remudamom]

I have not read all the posts, I just saw this, but fwiw I'd blow the whistle on that guy. File a police report. i went to the sheriff before when a weird man was showing too much interest in my dd's piano lessons at a local church. I don't care what the repercussions were for the man, I do my best to protect my children.

 

The sheriff didn't think I was over reacting. His dd went to the church and he was concerned.

[Parrothead]

Quick update: hubby did not hear back from the pastor this morning, so he went over there on the way to work. He took the kids' phone with the text on it, left a bit after 9am.

 

I just checked hubby's email, and there is now an email from the pastor (sent at 9:30) that he is in meetings but free at 2. I have to babysit neighbors kids-- mom is in labor! So I can't go, not sure what hubby will do.

The pastor needs to leave his office and come sit on your front porch while you tell him what is going on.

 

I'd tell the pastor that he has until 2:30 get there and that you have an appointment with a detective at the local PD at 3.

 

Then I'd get the ball rolling with LE and have someone come see you at 3.

[starwarsmomma]

Hubby is taking off work today so he can meet with the head pastor at 2.

(if you knew my hubby, he NEVER. NEVER. takes off work!)

 

Thanks for the input.

I am very thankful for ya'll!

[*Lulu*]

I think you should be worried and take action. This man's behavior is at best inappropriate and needs to be stopped.

 

I would, however, be very calm and matter of fact with this or you will look like the "crazy helicopter parent" and have some of your concern written off. (Even if they are taking steps to rectify the situation.) If at all possible make the meeting with the Pastor in person, and with both you and your DH. I would make a list of your issues with the situation and take it with you so you do not forget.

 

I would begin by emphasizing the systemic problems:

 

1) Youth leaving an activity without parental permission.

 

2) Either adults in charge allowing youth to be alone with an adult or, if 2 deep is already policy, not paying enough attention to realize policy was not being followed.

 

Then I would move on to the specifics of this volunteer's behavior with the invitation and text.

 

 

As for your son, as someone who was greatly harmed by adults not seeing the warning signs of grooming behavior, I would strongly encourage you to talk with him and emphasize that he did nothing wrong and is not in trouble. Make sure he knows that now, and always, you are on his side and looking out for him.

 

:grouphug::grouphug:

[*********]

I didn't read all the replies (this thread is long already!).

 

Yes, that's creepy. And you should explain to your ds WHY it's creepy.

 

I had a man take too much interest in me as a teen. It felt creepy, but he was friends with my parents. He never *did* anything, but I also didn't feel comfortable telling my parents that he creeped me out.

 

Go with your gut. Cut this guy out of your lives, and talk to the elders at the church about it. He either needs to get a clue or get lost.

[Denisemomof4]

Sounds like the exact thing the former men's bible study leader at our last church would do. He was a pedophile. My son was mad at my being over protective with this man but he is safe. The man got to another teen who's parents werent as cautious. :sad:

 

That volunteer needs to stop volunteering with kids.

[starwarsmomma]

I would block the guy's number, but keep in mind if he really wants to get in touch with your son, he could try from another number. Or your son might rebel a bit and try to contact the guy. So you might want to let the guy know in no uncertain terms that you no longer want him contacting your son. Maybe text him and say something like: "This is so-and-so's mother. I find it very disturbing that you are contacting my son, rather than his parents, about a trip to your ranch, about his baptism, and so on. I am even more disturbed by the fact that son told me you took him and several other boys in your car to your ranch with no other adults present and NO PARENTAL PERMISSION during a mission trip. What were you thinking? You should know better, especially after all of the recent Jerry Sandusky news reports, than to take young boys off alone in this manner. Husband and I are are on the same page with this and will be discussing our concerns with the pastor. Even if your motives are entirely innocent, and I certainly hope they are, common sense should tell you that there is potential liability in this for you and the church, and that it is not at all appropriate to take a minor child somewhere on your own without permission, or to invite them anywhere without talking to their parents. As an adult, you should certainly be capable of understanding what sort of red flags this situation raises for a parent. Because our number one priority is our child's safety and not someone else's feelings, please note that you are not to call or text my child again, or to approach him at church events."

 

This is EXCELLENT! Better than I could have come up with!

 

I just sent this to hubby (he has sons phone with him right now) and told him I want to send this to the guy... :D

 

Still meeting with pastor at 2. :D

[Whereneverever]

This is EXCELLENT! Better than I could have come up with!

 

I just sent this to hubby (he has sons phone with him right now) and told him I want to send this to the guy... :D

 

Still meeting with pastor at 2. :D

 

If you are meeting with the pastor and law enforcement, I would not contact this guy. I would not want to warn him that you are passing this on, you know?

 

I also hope you told your son that you are really proud of him for telling you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm glad your boy is safe.

[ILiveInFlipFlops]

If you are meeting with the pastor and law enforcement, I would not contact this guy. I would not want to warn him that you are passing this on, you know?

 

I also hope you told your son that you are really proud of him for telling you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm glad your boy is safe.

 

:iagree: with every word.

[missiemick]

The pastor needs to leave his office and come sit on your front porch while you tell him what is going on.

 

I'd tell the pastor that he has until 2:30 get there and that you have an appointment with a detective at the local PD at 3.

 

Then I'd get the ball rolling with LE and have someone come see you at 3.

:iagree:

 

He took your child without permission! No matter how "innocent" he might be that was wrong and I would not be nearly as nice about all this.

 

Most definitely would be contacting the police. No matter what the church might do - they need to be involved as well.

Besides, there were other adults around on the mission trip that knew he took the boys off by himself. The church knows this.

 

I also would not text the guy and give him any sort of heads-up.

 

If it was me, it would be a good thing that I was babysitting today as it would be terribly hard for me to restrain myself from confronting him face-to-face and doing bodily harm :tongue_smilie:

 

Please keep us informed :grouphug:

[Catwoman]

Call your local police department and report the man for luring your child. I don't know the law in Texas, but where we live, luring is a crime. Plus, this guy actually TOOK children, without their parents' knowledge or consent, out in his car.

 

There must be at least one punishable crime among the things this guy did.

 

I would not be at all surprised to find out that he has a scary history, and I would try to find out as much as possible from the police before the meeting with the pastor this afternoon.

[Katy]

Call your local police department and report the man for luring your child. I don't know the law in Texas, but where we live, luring is a crime. Plus, this guy actually TOOK children, without their parents' knowledge or consent, out in his car.

 

There must be at least one punishable crime among the things this guy did.

 

I would not be at all surprised to find out that he has a scary history, and I would try to find out as much as possible from the police before the meeting with the pastor this afternoon.

 

 

Luring is illegal in Texas too, but it looks like it has to be specifically sexual or his intent must be sexual, so in this case it's only something they could use retroactively or if this guy has a prior history of abusing boys: http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.33.htm#33.021

[trlt]

If you are meeting with the pastor and law enforcement, I would not contact this guy. I would not want to warn him that you are passing this on, you know?

 

I also hope you told your son that you are really proud of him for telling you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm glad your boy is safe.

 

:iagree:

[southcarolinamom]

:grouphug: We're all on pins and needles for the 2 PM meeting to be over. Hang in there!

[Kathryn]

I agree with NOT contacting this guy before talking with the pastor and/or police.

[Carrie75]

I am dissapointed that the pastor is busy! This is a big deal.

[Element]

 

SON MENTIONS that while on a mission trip with his church group over spring break, this same adult has already taken my son and a few of his friends off the mission trip property, in his own vehicle, and drove to this ranch for a period of time to see the ranch.

 

 

Not sure what state you're in, but this is a felony in my state. 720 ILCS 5/10-5 (b-10) I would not contact this guy, but I would be calling LE.

 

ETA: I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice! I may not even be interpreting the statute correctly. I just mean I think you are totally justified if you want to involve LE.

Edited August 15, 2012 by Element

[Lolly]

I am dissapointed that the pastor is busy! This is a big deal.

 

The pastor has no idea what it is about.

[Supertechmom]

I would respond that this is an EMERGENCY and there is a high probability that because laws were broken (taking children somewhere without permission is kidnapping) that the police will be involved and that he needs to cancel some appointments and fit you in ASAP.

 

The pastor needs to leave his office and come sit on your front porch while you tell him what is going on.

 

I'd tell the pastor that he has until 2:30 get there and that you have an appointment with a detective at the local PD at 3.

 

Then I'd get the ball rolling with LE and have someone come see you at 3.

:iagree: I wouldn't give the pastor the option. Meet with me now or meet the detective that gets assigned to the case this afternoon. I would without any hesitation be at the police dept discussing my concerns and seeing what action I needed or could take. IN fact I would do that now before I met with the pastor so I could tell the pastor, the police think this and want me to do x.

 

Sometimes they don't get it until they realize the police are more than willingly to get involved and even then they may stick with the prep. The big stink in our town is because the mega church did that even through the trial, the verdict and the severe jail time and the numerous victims (all girls- young girls). They still stand behind the man. And have an awesome youth program with little changes made to it. Because it was nothing and the girls were misguided. :tongue_smilie:

 

Give the pastor a chance, sure, but be prepared to take it out of his hands today.

 

even if he was innocent and misguided, really?? taking young people anywhere without permission and ALONE. :confused: He deserves a serious wake up call just for being stupid. Putting yourself at that type of risk is just silly. Maybe we as parents can do that as friends with our friends ( who doesn't take an extra kid or two with them on field trips and such) but any position representing an entity - just stupid thinking. A wake up call won't go far if he was truly just dumb. And if he skips to another town, there's a paper trail.

[Catwoman]

:iagree: I wouldn't give the pastor the option. Meet with me now or meet the detective that gets assigned to the case this afternoon. I would without any hesitation be at the police dept discussing my concerns and seeing what action I needed or could take. IN fact I would do that now before I met with the pastor so I could tell the pastor, the police think this and want me to do x.

 

That's exactly what I think needs to be done. I truly believe the police need to be consulted, and that it should happen before the meeting with the pastor. If the OP knows the law, she and her dh will be better able to have an informed discussion with the pastor. Also, if the pastor knows they have spoken with the police, you can bet he will take the situation very seriously.

[Abigail4476]

I would be careful not to accuse the man of anything he isn't known to have done. His actions look suspicious, but at this point all he has done is behave inappropriately and carelessly. When you speak to the pastor--or anyone else--speak about the bare bones facts. The facts are d*mning enough as it is.

 

I also wouldn't contact him personally before you contact the pastor. The reprimand and the inquiry should come from the pastor. If the pastor doesn't handle it, then take matters into your own hands.

[Element]

Maybe we as parents can do that as friends with our friends ( who doesn't take an extra kid or two with them on field trips and such) but any position representing an entity - just stupid thinking. A wake up call won't go far if he was truly just dumb. And if he skips to another town, there's a paper trail.

 

From a legal standpoint, I don't think you can even compare it to taking a friend's kid on a field trip. When you, as a parent, watch someone else's kid, it is my understanding that you have the parents' implied permission for things like that. For something like a church camp, a parent would have had to give explicit written permission for what his/her child can do. I don't think something like this situation would have been implied. Obviously, I'm NOT disagreeing with your overall statement! I totally agree! I just don't want someone to think "Hey, I'm watching Jane today but I can't take her anywhere in the car because that would be 'luring.'" :)

[Whereneverever]

I would be careful not to accuse the man of anything he isn't known to have done. His actions look suspicious, but at this point all he has done is behave inappropriately and carelessly. When you speak to the pastor--or anyone else--speak about the bare bones facts. The facts are d*mning enough as it is.

 

I also wouldn't contact him personally before you contact the pastor. The reprimand and the inquiry should come from the pastor. If the pastor doesn't handle it, then take matters into your own hands.

 

I would not be content for this to be handled in house by the pastor. He needs to know and start things in house, but you also should contact your authorities. Quite possibly the church's insurance carrier should be contacted as well.

[Abigail4476]

That's exactly what I think needs to be done. I truly believe the police need to be consulted, and that it should happen before the meeting with the pastor. If the OP knows the law, she and her dh will be better able to have an informed discussion with the pastor. Also, if the pastor knows they have spoken with the police, you can bet he will take the situation very seriously.

 

Unless the OP has reason to believe her pastor will not handle this, I think he should get the first heads up. My pastor would handle this quickly and aggressively, and I would have no need to take a matter to the police first.

 

Further, I think it's a bit of a gray area as to whether a crime has *actually* been committed. It's more of an ethical issue. Someone on the church staff had to be aware that the man was taking the boys "off the reservation" when they were on the mission's trip. Meaning, he may have had at least tacit permission from someone in charge.

 

It's important to have all the facts lined up before you involve the police, IMO. Again, while it does look bad, creepy and suspicious, it IS possible that this guy is ignorant and clueless and that nothing terrible has happened, other than what we already know. I'm all about parents trusting their gut instincts, but speaking in legalese, the police aren't going to do anything of the sort. They're going to want to know if a crime has been committed. Texting a child about a baptism is inappropriate, but it isn't a crime. Taking kids out to a ranch to look around while they are under his *care* on a missions' trip is inappropriate and careless, but I highly doubt the circumstances add up to "crime."

[Kathryn]

That's exactly what I think needs to be done. I truly believe the police need to be consulted, and that it should happen before the meeting with the pastor. If the OP knows the law, she and her dh will be better able to have an informed discussion with the pastor. Also, if the pastor knows they have spoken with the police, you can bet he will take the situation very seriously.

 

The more I think about it, the more I think a call to police to discuss the situation is in order, to ask if they know anything about the man and to get their take on the situation.

[Lovedtodeath]

Unless the OP has reason to believe her pastor will not handle this, I think he should get the first heads up.

 

Further, I think it's a bit of a gray area as to whether a crime has *actually* been committed.

If, however, any boys said anything about sexual conduct by this man, then I would go to the police first.

[justasque]

...I would, however, be very calm and matter of fact with this or you will look like the "crazy helicopter parent" and have some of your concern written off. (Even if they are taking steps to rectify the situation.) If at all possible make the meeting with the Pastor in person, and with both you and your DH. I would make a list of your issues with the situation and take it with you so you do not forget.

 

I would begin by emphasizing the systemic problems:

 

1) Youth leaving an activity without parental permission.

 

2) Either adults in charge allowing youth to be alone with an adult or, if 2 deep is already policy, not paying enough attention to realize policy was not being followed.

 

Then I would move on to the specifics of this volunteer's behavior with the invitation and text.

...

 

I would be careful not to accuse the man of anything he isn't known to have done. His actions look suspicious, but at this point all he has done is behave inappropriately and carelessly. When you speak to the pastor--or anyone else--speak about the bare bones facts. The facts are d*mning enough as it is.

 

I also wouldn't contact him personally before you contact the pastor. The reprimand and the inquiry should come from the pastor. If the pastor doesn't handle it, then take matters into your own hands.

 

Unless the OP has reason to believe her pastor will not handle this, I think he should get the first heads up. My pastor would handle this quickly and aggressively, and I would have no need to take a matter to the police first.

 

Further, I think it's a bit of a gray area as to whether a crime has *actually* been committed. It's more of an ethical issue. Someone on the church staff had to be aware that the man was taking the boys "off the reservation" when they were on the mission's trip. Meaning, he may have had at least tacit permission from someone in charge.

 

It's important to have all the facts lined up before you involve the police, IMO. Again, while it does look bad, creepy and suspicious, it IS possible that this guy is ignorant and clueless and that nothing terrible has happened, other than what we already know. I'm all about parents trusting their gut instincts, but speaking in legalese, the police aren't going to do anything of the sort. They're going to want to know if a crime has been committed. Texting a child about a baptism is inappropriate, but it isn't a crime. Taking kids out to a ranch to look around while they are under his *care* on a missions' trip is inappropriate and careless, but I highly doubt the circumstances add up to "crime."

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

Take this seriously, but one step at a time.

It will ultimately be more effective.

[Abigail4476]

If, however, any boys said anything about sexual conduct by this man, then I would go to the police first.

 

Yes, I agree 100%. I'm basing my responses on what the OP said she knew. We don't know that anything like that happened, and the OP's son certainly didn't allude to that.

 

I agree that this guy is acting inappropriately and carelessly. However, unless a crime has actually been committed, then I think it's the pastor's (or other church staff's) job to handle it and remove him from his position. I'm just saying to give the church leadership a chance to handle it. It's presumptuous to assume they will drop the ball and go around them.

[Catwoman]

Yes, I agree 100%. I'm basing my responses on what the OP said she knew. We don't know that anything like that happened, and the OP's son certainly didn't allude to that.

 

I agree that this guy is acting inappropriately and carelessly. However, unless a crime has actually been committed, then I think it's the pastor's (or other church staff's) job to handle it and remove him from his position. I'm just saying to give the church leadership a chance to handle it. It's presumptuous to assume they will drop the ball and go around them.

 

One could say that they already dropped the ball when no one noticed that this guy was taking 11-13 year-old boys off the premises, without parental consent.

 

I think the OP needs to know whether or not this man is a known predator. Getting him removed from his position at the camp is a nice way to get him out of the immediate picture, but if he is as creepy as he sounds, he'll just move on to the next place and repeat his actions. I would want to know if he has a history, and I'd want to know about it before I spoke with the pastor.

[Guest submarines]

 

SON MENTIONS that while on a mission trip with his church group over spring break, this same adult has already taken my son and a few of his friends off the mission trip property, in his own vehicle, and drove to this ranch for a period of time to see the ranch. With no other adults. Just a group of boys age 11-13. I'm told it was for a driving tour only, according to son...

(NOBODY told us of this! We did NOT give permission for this!)

 

!

 

Have you verified this information with other parents?

 

Is it possible your son made this up to justify the upcoming trip? As in "we've already done this, and it was fine" twisted pre-teen reasoning?

[Seasider]

The pastor needs to leave his office and come sit on your front porch while you tell him what is going on.

 

I'd tell the pastor that he has until 2:30 get there and that you have an appointment with a detective at the local PD at 3.

 

Then I'd get the ball rolling with LE and have someone come see you at 3.

 

I would be very tempted to request this of the pastor. It would be very hard for me to not be there. DH just doesn't always pick up on nonverbal cues the same way I do. I would at least do as another poster suggested and ask that at least one person other than the pastor be present. You never know - perhaps creepy guy is a "recovering" offender and a "project" of the pastor's, kwim? Yes, I tend to have a vivid imagination but still, don't let it be just between the two. Ask for another trustyworthy witness to this confidential meeting. If it's a big church, another staff member or elder should be able to be found available.

 

Hubby is taking off work today so he can meet with the head pastor at 2.

(if you knew my hubby, he NEVER. NEVER. takes off work!)

 

Thanks for the input.

I am very thankful for ya'll!

 

If you are meeting with the pastor and law enforcement, I would not contact this guy. I would not want to warn him that you are passing this on, you know?

 

I also hope you told your son that you are really proud of him for telling you. :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

 

I'm glad your boy is safe.

 

:iagree: If he turns out to be any kind of repeat offender or is into deep creepy stuff, you don't want to give him the opportunity to destroy evidence.

 

 

If I were the one meeting with the pastor, there are certain things that would have to happen at/as a result of that meeting. You need to learn the method of background checking. You need to know the guidelines for adult supervision of youth, especially on away trips. You should ask for these policies IN WRITING. You may see them squirm if they are unable to produce these items - that would demonstrate they have a problem because they have no policy.

 

I would also be very firm that they pull and review the man's background check paperwork, right then and there as you wait. They are obligated to protect his privacy, so they may not allow you to see the report. But again, what if they don't have any such thing on file? I certainly would not leave the meeting without all the contact information you need about this man to order your own background check on him.

 

Ask for definite action items -

Are they going to contact the other parents, or will you do it?

When will they handle reprimanding/reassigning this man?

You get the idea - please do not walk away from the meeting with just a sharing of your concerns and a nod-n-handshake from the pastor. You need to know what he's going to do about it and when he's going to do it. He must have a sense of urgency.

 

I would not threaten with police or lawsuits, but I would make it clear that based on what has happened, there are already grounds for action against the church, even if it only amounts to lots of bad publicity.

 

If there is in any way a reluctance on the pastor's part to comply or be concerned, then go directly to the police.

 

Just my two cents. I am creeped out with shivers just imagining being in your position.

[Scarlett]

I would be careful not to accuse the man of anything he isn't known to have done. His actions look suspicious, but at this point all he has done is behave inappropriately and carelessly. When you speak to the pastor--or anyone else--speak about the bare bones facts. The facts are d*mning enough as it is.

 

I also wouldn't contact him personally before you contact the pastor. The reprimand and the inquiry should come from the pastor. If the pastor doesn't handle it, then take matters into your own hands.

 

:iagree:

 

Very creepy. I would be so upset.

[cin]

This man is creepy and has, at best, extremely poor judgment. Please warn the other parents.

 

And quite honestly, extremely poor judgement can be dangerous in and of itself. So yeah, my answer would be NO.

[starwarsmomma]

yes, I did know (after) that my osn and other boys went to his ranch, BUT at the time, we were under the assumption that it was the entire group that went, and that it was for a purpose.

 

It was lastnight when we started asking specific questions, that we found out our assumptions were wrong.