what's "poor"?

[shinyhappypeople]

The budgeting threads got me thinking.

 

When people talk about "the poor" who do you put into that category? Do you base it on income, income relative to COL or something else? Do you include amount of debt a person has?

 

What about "middle-class"? What IS middle-class anyway?

 

How do you define "rich"?

 

Just curious how others approach this.

 

:bigear:

[Soror]

Poor- Not able to afford necessities; adequate food, season appropriate clothing and shoes, adequate heat, adequate and safe shelter, needed transportation (ie a car if in a location without public transportation)

 

Middle Class- Able to afford all necessities and a few luxuries- ie bigger house, nicer neighborhoods, newer cars (exclusive of excessive debt)

 

Rich- Able to afford several luxuries (exclusive of excessive debt)

[Mrs Mungo]

Poor- Not able to afford necessities; adequate food, season appropriate clothing and shoes, adequate heat, adequate and safe shelter, needed transportation (ie a car if in a location without public transportation)

 

Middle Class- Able to afford all necessities and a few luxuries- ie bigger house, nicer neighborhoods, newer cars (exclusive of excessive debt)

 

Rich- Able to afford several luxuries (exclusive of excessive debt)

 

I think I would break this down a little more. I think "working class" belongs between "poor" and "middle class." Because maybe you can buy all your necessities, but not really afford luxuries or a bigger house.

 

I also think a lot of Middle Class people carry debt due to those bigger homes, nice cars, etc.

 

Here is an interesting chart, showing income quintiles for the US in $5,000 increments.

[PeacefulChaos]

The budgeting threads got me thinking.

 

When people talk about "the poor" who do you put into that category? Do you base it on income, income relative to COL or something else? Do you include amount of debt a person has?

 

What about "middle-class"? What IS middle-class anyway?

 

How do you define "rich"?

 

Just curious how others approach this.

 

:bigear:

 

I would say poor as in, can't pay the bills, can't afford basic groceries, etc.

I would say middle class encompasses all of those who are able to pay their bills and such, and big purchases have to be saved up for, etc. This can range from those who can pay the bills, food, gas, and a little extra but don't have money for something like insurance or a house - to those who can do those things but still require strict budgeting. I think most people are middle class. I would consider my family on the lower end of middle class. (Lower sounds like such a negative way to put it! ...ummmm....yeah I can't think of anything else though! :lol: ) But I do think that one can live well in the mid-to upper part of the middle class. We live relatively well, as in we're taken care of, but I would like to buy a house.

Rich would be not worrying about money. At all. If a new home is wanted, they buy it. If a new car is wanted, they buy it. I think very few fall into this category.

[GoVanGogh]

Above two replies sound like good definitions.

 

I would add a few things...

 

Even if that means it's because you have too many bills (like say you lost your job, or had a major drop in income).

Except it drives me nuts when the "too many bills" is because of crazy purchases.

A certain relative of mine bought a new big screen TV one week. Next week was crying because their car was repossessed. I'm thinking they had to know they were on the brink of losing car when they bought the TV... A month later, they bought an iPad. Sorry. But I don't feel sorry the next month when you can't afford groceries.

 

Middle Class- Able to afford all necessities and a few luxuries- ie bigger house, nicer neighborhoods, newer cars (exclusive of excessive debt)

 

Rich- Able to afford several luxuries (exclusive of excessive debt)

This is a blurry line, I think. Hard to judge.

Many rich people can afford luxuries, but are rich because they don't have them. They could afford a bigger house or a nicer neighborhood, but choose to invest the money or put it in the bank instead of on outward appearances.

[Soror]

I think I would break this down a little more. I think "working class" belongs between "poor" and "middle class." Because maybe you can buy all your necessities, but not really afford luxuries or a bigger house.

 

I also think a lot of Middle Class people carry debt due to those bigger homes, nice cars, etc.

 

Here is an interesting chart, showing income quintiles for the US in $5,000 increments.

Yes, I'd agree there are certainly more levels and one doesn't go from affording nothing to everything plus some extra.

[momto2Cs]

I think I would break this down a little more. I think "working class" belongs between "poor" and "middle class." Because maybe you can buy all your necessities, but not really afford luxuries or a bigger house.

 

I also think a lot of Middle Class people carry debt due to those bigger homes, nice cars, etc.

 

Here is an interesting chart, showing income quintiles for the US in $5,000 increments.

 

:iagree:

[Mrs Mungo]

Here's a chart with 2012 poverty thresholds.

 

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/12poverty.shtml/

[Soror]

This is a blurry line, I think. Hard to judge.

Many rich people can afford luxuries, but are rich because they don't have them. They could afford a bigger house or a nicer neighborhood, but choose to invest the money or put it in the bank instead of on outward appearances.

 

True. I think from what I've read those that are rich aren't the ones that are generally as obsessed with all the trimmings.

 

I consider dh and I rich, although by economic standards of the US we wouldn't qualify. And we don't have any big luxuries because we've chosen to save our money for the most part and invest in things that aren't seen and not have a debt load.

[GoVanGogh]

I guess I was focusing on what poor is, not all possible causes for being poor.

I knew that. It just reminded me of my pet peeve...

I do feel terribly sad for people that struggle financially for medical reasons. (We had a premature baby and $$$ medical bills that we know would have sunk a lot of families.) And sudden job loss and downturn in employment is hard to deal with.

But I hate to see people that really are poor, but are poor because... Don't know what it is. Lack of financial awareness? Impulsive shopping? Bad choices? If you can't put food on the table one week, you can't afford a new tech gadget the next.

There is so much written about literacy rates but I think 'financial literacy' (how to budget money) is a huge issue for some people...

[Mrs Mungo]

That's so crazy. You have lived in many places and I'm sure you know in some areas that would be beyond poor.

 

The $31k/year for 5 people in Hawaii? We paid $42k/year in rent alone. Utilities were about $1k/month. Now, we had a nice house, but still.

[stripe]

We paid $42k/year in rent alone. Utilities were about $1k/month. Now, we had a nice house, but still.

 

:eek:

 

That's insane. There go my plans of ever going to Hawaii.

[GoVanGogh]

True. I think from what I've read those that are rich aren't the ones that are generally as obsessed with all the trimmings.

 

I consider dh and I rich, although by economic standards of the US we wouldn't qualify. And we don't have any big luxuries because we've chosen to save our money for the most part and invest in things that aren't seen and not have a debt load.

Neighbor dropped by the other day for something and noticed our "ancient" television. They just upgraded - again - and offered to sell us their old one for a great deal. She couldn't understand why we didn't want to buy it. Well, we don't watch enough television to justify it. We are perfectly happy with our old television. It works. It's paid for.

I was laughing with DH later and told him, "I want just enough tech so that our child doesn't feel left out, but not so much as to feed an addiction or make it overly enjoyable." :lol:

[Dory]

To me poor is when someone is unable to pay for their basic needs without having spent the money on luxury items.

Middle class to me would be someone that is able to pay for their necessities with a little left over for something extra or for better quality items.

Middle class is a fairly wide range as well. I think I often put working class in with middle class, just on the lower end.

Rich to me is a state of mind. There are some people who honestly have more money than they could possibly spend in a lifetime, but usually those people that we think of as rich are that way because they don't spend on a bunch of unnecessary stuff. Usually, I think these people are just upper middle class that are careful with their cash.

[Soror]

Most advice I see for budgeting money is for people who have plenty of money. I always love the suggestions, for example, of stuff like don't buy Starbucks everyday, but brew your own coffee. Really? Like if I'm in financial deep shi* I'm probably not buying Starbucks everyday. Stupid suggestions....:glare:

 

I do think there is serious lack of financial literacy and I'll be the first to admit that the learning curve for me was steep and painful at times.

 

Dh works with way too many people who do just that. They buy all these cool toys when they get paid and then sell them when their bills are due, every month. One would think that is obviously a bad idea but evidently not for everyone.

[Excelsior! Academy]

Most people's definition of rich is someone who has a higher cash-flow than them.

 

Poverty is someone who can't afford basic necessities. Like choose to pay electricity or food, not both.

 

We would qualify for food stamps due to the number of children we have, yet dh makes a decent income. I would not consider us poor. Not wealthy, mind you, but definitely not poor. We are able to go on vacations and pay cash for most purchases. We do eat beans a couple of times a week, but our only debt is our mortgage.

 

There are too many varying factors for a straight definition. You have people living in large houses that are in debt up to their eyeballs and people in modest homes who could hand out blank checks. I know both.

[justLisa]

Dh works with way too many people who do just that. They buy all these cool toys when they get paid and then sell them when their bills are due, every month. One would think that is obviously a bad idea but evidently not for everyone.

 

My parents have a neighbor that has had a few large furniture trucks come deliver things, and then not so long later they end up on their HOA website as an ad for sale :confused:

 

He once told my dad he needed this crazy expensive table to seat a ridiculous amount of people for a holiday. I guess it's like renting? LOL

[Audrey]

Ooo.... I think poor and rich are relative terms entirely. I don't think we can even begin to have a discussion on it unless we are taking it in a global context. First world poor is not comparable to third world poor, but you can't really discuss poverty without the context of both.

[justLisa]

Wow, that is nuts. LOL

 

Maybe someone should tell him he actually CAN rent furniture. :lol:

 

I know right? It was like some exotic thing with a marble top.

[PeacefulChaos]

Most advice I see for budgeting money is for people who have plenty of money. I always love the suggestions, for example, of stuff like don't buy Starbucks everyday, but brew your own coffee. Really? Like if I'm in financial deep shi* I'm probably not buying Starbucks everyday. Stupid suggestions....:glare:

 

I do think there is serious lack of financial literacy and I'll be the first to admit that the learning curve for me was steep and painful at times.

 

:iagree:

I think those suggestions are so ridiculous.

My grandparents taught me a LOT about finances - more than most. I still went through a period of time where I spent everything I had (around 19-21), BUT at least I had the knowledge of what I should be doing and how to do better. I didn't have credit cards, either, which helped a lot. :D I definitely want to make sure my kids understand money when they are teens!

[justLisa]

Most advice I see for budgeting money is for people who have plenty of money. I always love the suggestions, for example, of stuff like don't buy Starbucks everyday, but brew your own coffee. Really? Like if I'm in financial deep shi* I'm probably not buying Starbucks everyday. Stupid suggestions....:glare:

 

I do think there is serious lack of financial literacy and I'll be the first to admit that the learning curve for me was steep and painful at times.

 

This made me :lol:

 

I was CLUELESS when I got married. Like utterly clueless how much it takes to manage finances. I'll admit DH does it now, but it's not like I don't know the work involved or have a huge part in it by being very frugal, etc.

 

My sister thinks she is poor, but she went back to school with loans, and does not work, lives with her fiance etc. That is not really poor.

[Crimson Wife]

I make a distinction between "poor" and "broke". I have been broke at times, but never poor. If someone loses a middle-class job and has to live off unemployment and savings until he/she gets a new job, that is "broke", not "poor". Poverty isn't usually a temporary situation but a chronic one.

 

I also think the thresholds for "poor" and "rich" vary with the COL. The same income that would've supported a middle-class lifestyle when we lived near Louisville, KY would make someone poor here in the very pricey S.F. Bay Area.

[Mrs Mungo]

Ooo.... I think poor and rich are relative terms entirely. I don't think we can even begin to have a discussion on it unless we are taking it in a global context. First world poor is not comparable to third world poor, but you can't really discuss poverty without the context of both.

 

This is a good point.

[SKL]

Poor: when your children have to go to sleep hungry because you don't have access to enough food, AND the reason you don't have access isn't because you recently spent money on something unnecessary.

 

Poor: when your income is such that it can never be enough to pay your basic living expenses and bills over a long period of time.

 

Rich: a state of mind.

 

Rich: having enough income to pay your bills, meet your family's needs, and stop for ice cream on a hot summer evening. :)

[TheReader]

Ooo.... I think poor and rich are relative terms entirely. I don't think we can even begin to have a discussion on it unless we are taking it in a global context. First world poor is not comparable to third world poor, but you can't really discuss poverty without the context of both.

 

:iagree:

 

Yes, this.

 

My view of poor/poverty/middle class has shifted so much since coming to Brazil (as has my view of wealthy), I realize now that whenever I open my mouth on this subject it's as though I'm speaking a foreign language to most people.

 

It's been my experience that most first world people don't want to hear about what 3rd world poverty looks like, even if I pair that description with the fact that I understand that first world poor feels like poverty when you're in it.

[PeacefulChaos]

My view of poor/poverty/middle class has shifted so much since coming to Brazil (as has my view of wealthy), I realize now that whenever I open my mouth on this subject it's as though I'm speaking a foreign language to most people.

 

It's been my experience that most first world people don't want to hear about what 3rd world poverty looks like, even if I pair that description with the fact that I understand that first world poor feels like poverty when you're in it.

 

I do agree with the difference between first world poor and third world poor.

But...

I still feel like poor is poor. We aren't in a third world country, so I don't think our poor needs to be compared to theirs. I'm not saying that to you personally, it's just a general thing that I hear people say a lot, and I always think that. And I'm not saying that in a way that is unmoved by the plight of those who are poor in those countries.

Idk... I don't mean it to sound harsh. So please no one jump all over me...I guess I'm just saying that our reality isn't the same as theirs. Poor to us may be rich to them, but that won't get us anywhere in America, so it just seems like a moot point. Kwim?

[freesia]

:iagree:

 

Yes, this.

 

My view of poor/poverty/middle class has shifted so much since coming to Brazil (as has my view of wealthy), I realize now that whenever I open my mouth on this subject it's as though I'm speaking a foreign language to most people.

 

It's been my experience that most first world people don't want to hear about what 3rd world poverty looks like, even if I pair that description with the fact that I understand that first world poor feels like poverty when you're in it.

:iagree: Visiting the Dominican Republic and living in Cameroon changed my view of poverty forever. I believe, if at all possible, all middle class and up teens and young adults should spend some time in a third world country so they can truly understand the poverty that much of the world lives in and that so much of what they consider given (new clothes, education, clean water, nice home) are actually luxury to many.

Edited July 31, 2012 by freesia
typo

[SKL]

I believe, if at all possible, all middle class and up teens and young adults should spend some time in a third world country so they can truly understand the poverty that much of the world lives in and that some much of what they consider given (new clothes, education, clean water, nice home) are actually luxury to many.

:iagree: With a little perspective, we might even get better ideas for solving the problems here.

[justLisa]

I do agree with the difference between first world poor and third world poor.

But...

I still feel like poor is poor. We aren't in a third world country, so I don't think our poor needs to be compared to theirs. I'm not saying that to you personally, it's just a general thing that I hear people say a lot, and I always think that. And I'm not saying that in a way that is unmoved by the plight of those who are poor in those countries.

Idk... I don't mean it to sound harsh. So please no one jump all over me...I guess I'm just saying that our reality isn't the same as theirs. Poor to us may be rich to them, but that won't get us anywhere in America, so it just seems like a moot point. Kwim?

 

I can see what you mean. It really matters where you live. Some places just having food would make you rich.

[TheReader]

I do agree with the difference between first world poor and third world poor.

But...

I still feel like poor is poor. We aren't in a third world country, so I don't think our poor needs to be compared to theirs. I'm not saying that to you personally, it's just a general thing that I hear people say a lot, and I always think that. And I'm not saying that in a way that is unmoved by the plight of those who are poor in those countries.

Idk... I don't mean it to sound harsh. So please no one jump all over me...I guess I'm just saying that our reality isn't the same as theirs. Poor to us may be rich to them, but that won't get us anywhere in America, so it just seems like a moot point. Kwim?

 

I do hear what you're saying. That's what I was getting at when I said that I try and pair my description (if I share it) with the fact I do understand that poor in the US feels like true poverty when you're living it; I get that. Poor where you are is poor where you are.

[freesia]

I do agree with the difference between first world poor and third world poor.

But...

I still feel like poor is poor. We aren't in a third world country, so I don't think our poor needs to be compared to theirs. I'm not saying that to you personally, it's just a general thing that I hear people say a lot, and I always think that. And I'm not saying that in a way that is unmoved by the plight of those who are poor in those countries.

Idk... I don't mean it to sound harsh. So please no one jump all over me...I guess I'm just saying that our reality isn't the same as theirs. Poor to us may be rich to them, but that won't get us anywhere in America, so it just seems like a moot point. Kwim?

Have you been to a third world country and seen the poverty there? I am not really saying that to be snarky. Really. Please also don't hear my tone as "jumping on you." I am thinking in a gentle voice. In my experience, seeing that kind of poverty shakes up ones entire worldview that makes it impossible to consider oneself poor no matter how little income is coming in. I say that as one who lived with her MIL btwn jobs and now live in a high COL area on much less then most folks.

[twoxcell]

Well my dh's income is slightly above the poverty threshold according to that chart posted for a family of 6, but I do not consider us poor at all.;)

[PeacefulChaos]

Have you been to a third world country and seen the poverty there? I am not really saying that to be snarky. Really. Please also don't hear my tone as "jumping on you." I am thinking in a gentle voice. In my experience, seeing that kind of poverty shakes up ones entire worldview that makes it impossible to consider oneself poor no matter how little income is coming in. I say that as one who lived with her MIL btwn jobs and now live in a high COL area on much less then most folks.

 

Yes, I have. So I do understand what people are saying when they speak of it. I just don't always find it to be necessarily helpful or related, kwim? :) (Just like COL - what's poor in NYC could fare very well out in the country! :) )

 

I also think the idea mentioned earlier about teens visiting a third world country and seeing it all first hand is an excellent one. I do believe that by having more in general, we do need to do all we can to try to support these people one way or another. :) I think teenagers need to be aware that what they see as normal can be extravagant. ;) And I definitely want to bring my kids up to have a realistic view of the state of many of the people of the world.

[freesia]

Yes, I have. So I do understand what people are saying when they speak of it. I just don't always find it to be necessarily helpful or related, kwim? :) (Just like COL - what's poor in NYC could fare very well out in the country! :) )

 

I also think the idea mentioned earlier about teens visiting a third world country and seeing it all first hand is an excellent one. I do believe that by having more in general, we do need to do all we can to try to support these people one way or another. :) I think teenagers need to be aware that what they see as normal can be extravagant. ;) And I definitely want to bring my kids up to have a realistic view of the state of many of the people of the world.

I completely understand the COL analogy! We came from a place where rec ballet cost $30 for a class. Here it is $120 and then they want you to pay $10 a ticket for a recital. We now make about 20% more here but feel "poorer."

 

I still think, though, that we could all do with feeling more thankful. I think it is a constant struggle to feel content no matter what you have. It certainly helped me when things were tight to remember how much we had.

[PeacefulChaos]

I completely understand the COL analogy! We came from a place where rec ballet cost $30 for a class. Here it is $120 and then they want you to pay $10 a ticket for a recital. We now make about 20% more here but feel "poorer."

 

I still think, though, that we could all do with feeling more thankful. I think it is a constant struggle to feel content no matter what you have. It certainly helped me when things were tight to remember how much we had.

 

Definitely agree on that! :)

[TheReader]

I still think, though, that we could all do with feeling more thankful. I think it is a constant struggle to feel content no matter what you have. It certainly helped me when things were tight to remember how much we had.

 

One of the most interesting things I've seen here is how content people are with less. Time after time I've seen people living in what I would call poverty and yet they are just happy and content.

 

A sign posted up outside a man's shack/lean-to in a beach town we visited summed it up nicely: "I knew a man, and all he had was money. How poor he was."

 

Such a different way of looking at things.

[thescrappyhomeschooler]

Most advice I see for budgeting money is for people who have plenty of money. I always love the suggestions, for example, of stuff like don't buy Starbucks everyday, but brew your own coffee. Really? Like if I'm in financial deep shi* I'm probably not buying Starbucks everyday. Stupid suggestions....:glare:

 

I do think there is serious lack of financial literacy and I'll be the first to admit that the learning curve for me was steep and painful at times.

 

:iagree: We went to a financial planner once, and the first thing she did was tell us to cut out stuff like Starbucks, gym memberships and cable bills. We didn't have any gym memberships nor did we have cable at the time. And neither of us drink coffee. So very helpful, thanks.

 

Anyway, those federal poverty amounts are hilarious. Where could 1 person live for under $13,000? Unless they shared household expenses with several other people, that would be next to impossible.

 

I think poor is when you are struggling to just pay for basic necessities. Middle class has an extremely wide range, from being able to easily pay for your basic necessities to being able to afford some of the things you want and not just need. Being rich to me is being able to afford most of what you want and need.

[justLisa]

 

Plenty of people who would define themselves as poor aren't automatically thankless. I grew up poor. Like not having enough food at times poor. I am not bitter. I was not unhappy for it (despite being picked on quite a bit for it). I was grateful, thankful, and the first person to give someone my paper route money if asked.

 

I kind of resent the thought that poverty in this country is said to be just an ungrateful state of mind. Even if so, then people need to stop being so nasty to poor people and treating them like worthless human beings. That's the bigger problem in my mind.

 

That reminds me of when I had a paper route. My parents were very poor for a time. I saved my money and bought clothes for my sister and I. My mother cried. I remember telling her I don't know why she was upset, I had money for it, and they did not.

 

I really hope I am raising my kids the same way. I think we all have big hearts here. My kids are very generous. I am not going to feel guilty for what I have nor am I jealous of what I don't have. Despite having access to many things, I am not very materialistic.

 

DH grew up poor in a communist country. My inlaws immigrated with nothing. ANd I mean as in one bag nothing. I will never fully understand that because I have not lived it. It does not mean I do not feel what they went through and admire them for what they did. I am insanely grateful for my life.

[lovinmomma]

Ack! These threads always get me, because poor is such a cultural thing. I've been to Africa and seen poor, but poor is different in each country. People in other nations would dream of what I have and I consider myself poor. lol

[PeacefulChaos]

One of the most interesting things I've seen here is how content people are with less. Time after time I've seen people living in what I would call poverty and yet they are just happy and content.

 

A sign posted up outside a man's shack/lean-to in a beach town we visited summed it up nicely: "I knew a man, and all he had was money. How poor he was."

Such a different way of looking at things.

 

LOVE this. I think we should all (universal we) go for this mindset.

[QueenCat]

This chart shows income brackets in easy to read ways. Go about half way down the page to glean the data. It is pretty accurate to my own perceptions.

[freesia]

It gets even crazier than that. Here it cost $250 per semester (and there are three) and the recital fee was $50 and tickets were $35 per person with no discounts for children, parent's, nor those who volunteered behind stage.

 

Not that this is totally the point.

 

But COL, perception, area, experiences, etc. all play a huge part.

 

Plenty of people who would define themselves as poor aren't automatically thankless. I grew up poor. Like not having enough food at times poor. I am not bitter. I was not unhappy for it (despite being picked on quite a bit for it). I was grateful, thankful, and the first person to give someone my paper route money if asked.

 

I kind of resent the thought that poverty in this country is said to be just an ungrateful state of mind. Even if so, then people need to stop being so nasty to poor people and treating them like worthless human beings. That's the bigger problem in my mind.

I didn't mean to imply this at all. I completely agre wee need to stop being nasty to people who have less. There are SO many factors that go into poverty and so many things we *blame* on poverty are present in wealthy households as well.

 

I think one of the hardest things about poverty can be hopelessness. I think, when we have less, if we remember what we have and are content with it, it is the first step to seeing the world in a hopeful way. Like Reader's man in the shack.

 

I recognize this can sound like I am saying folks need to be happy being poor and everything will be okay. I'm not. Really. Global poverty in a rich world is a horrible problem. I think all of us (me included) need to stop thinking about what we don't have and think about what we have to give (in all areas not just financially). And yes, that includes the poor in our countrym many of whom have more than a lot of the world.

[Audrey]

Well my dh's income is slightly above the poverty threshold according to that chart posted for a family of 6, but I do not consider us poor at all.;)

 

 

Yes. There is a real difference between being poor and feeling poor.

[Crimson Wife]

This chart shows income brackets in easy to read ways. Go about half way down the page to glean the data. It is pretty accurate to my own perceptions.

 

You must live in a fairly low COL area. $92k may be top 20% nationwide, but around where I live it wouldn't go very far. The median rent for a 2BR apt. (not house) in my metro area is a whopping $1921/mo. or $23k/year. After paying for housing/utilities and taxes, there wouldn't be all that much left to live on.

[QuirkyKapers]

Ooo.... I think poor and rich are relative terms entirely. I don't think we can even begin to have a discussion on it unless we are taking it in a global context. First world poor is not comparable to third world poor, but you can't really discuss poverty without the context of both.

 

 

:iagree: This is what I was thinking. When I was overseas, I saw families living in one room shacks. No beds, slept on blankets on the floor, a table. A pot and pan. Some dishes. No stove, cooked any food they had outdoors. Bathroom outdoors (squatting in the woods). The kids hair was blonde due to malnutrition. Really made me think about how I live my life. It is so hard not to get caught up in needing more when others have less because they have different life circumstances.

[QueenCat]

You must live in a fairly low COL area. $92k may be top 20% nationwide, but around where I live it wouldn't go very far. The median rent for a 2BR apt. (not house) in my metro area is a whopping $1921/mo. or $23k/year. After paying for housing/utilities and taxes, there wouldn't be all that much left to live on.

 

Currently, I am in a low col area but we've lived in higher col areas. The stats are averages, across the country, of income, and the dispersal of it across the board. The high areas and low areas both distort the big picture. Higher col areas do tend to have higher wages; although, from what I've seen, the higher wages are not proportional to the overall col differences. For example, dh was offered a job in an area with a higher col. The same house, in the same type of neighborhood would be about 40% more expensive. The salary is only 25% higher. Wasn't a big enough career move to be worth it.

[Lisbeth]

Paul Fussell wrote a biting, mean book called Class, an interesting but harsh read. He included the classes "bottom out of sight" and "top of of sight" - classes so poor and so rich you aren't aware of them and/or never see them. Always found that interesting.

[jennynd]

You must live in a fairly low COL area. $92k may be top 20% nationwide, but around where I live it wouldn't go very far. The median rent for a 2BR apt. (not house) in my metro area is a whopping $1921/mo. or $23k/year. After paying for housing/utilities and taxes, there wouldn't be all that much left to live on.

 

We moved from IN to NY. When we decided to move, it was a major shock that how expensive to live in NY. Good we realized before we accept the jobs. We definitely put that in consideration when we negociate salary.

[Renee in NC]

Yes. There is a real difference between being poor and feeling poor.

 

For me, the difference between broke and poor is hope. When you're broke, there is always hope that things will be better in the future. Poor means no hope - there is no light at the end of the tunnel. All you have is the grinding daily reality that this is *it* and nothing is going to change.

 

I've been both, and poor is suffocating.

[MiniBlondes]

You must live in a fairly low COL area. $92k may be top 20% nationwide, but around where I live it wouldn't go very far. The median rent for a 2BR apt. (not house) in my metro area is a whopping $1921/mo. or $23k/year. After paying for housing/utilities and taxes, there wouldn't be all that much left to live on.

 

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