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Japanese American internment during WWII


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This is so on my mind right now. We're studying this in my college class and I just finished reading Neisi Daughter.

 

It may be because I grew up/still live on the East Coast, so perhaps this was not spoken of much in high school or earlier history classes. But it's sorta killing me that I never knew about this! I had no idea that FDR signed an order that imprisoned 100,000 Japanese Americans in "camps." How did that happen in this country? Did nobody or no political person of influence decry these actions? Didn't anybody point out that it was unconstitutional?

 

I was just talking to a friend who is somewhat of an alarmist in my eyes. He is very worried about the direction of the US. He poses questions to me like, "What will you do when military officers come to your door and tell you to hand over your guns?" I pretty much laugh at him. I say, "That will never happen. It's unconstitutional!" And then I go to class and read about how military officers with AK-47s made people give up their Japanese Bibles and books of poetry and confiscated their gallon-jugs of soy sauce. It kills me. How did the government pass an order that imprisoned non-criminals, 2/3 of whom were actually born in America, because they had Japanese ancestry? I am shocked. :(

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Quill: This is so on my mind right now. We're studying this in my college class and I just finished reading Neisi Daughter.

 

It may be because I grew up/still live on the East Coast, so perhaps this was not spoken of much in high school or earlier history classes. But it's sorta killing me that I never knew about this! I had no idea that FDR signed an order that imprisoned 100,000 Japanese Americans in "camps." How did that happen in this country? Did nobody or no political person of influence decry these actions? Didn't anybody point out that it was unconstitutional?

 

 

I never knew it either in school. There is one sanitized story of what this country is about, and then the real story, which is to do all that is expedient, regardless the cost or violation. It reminds me of a scene in a movie where that Irish actor, Colin Farrell, was telling AL Pacino, a CIA agent, "How did you get my personal information?

That's confidential!" Pacino just laughs. "Yeah, RIGHT."

 

By the way, FDR lied through his teeth that SSN's would "never, ever be used as identification, but only for your benefits" in order to pacify the sheep. We can see how that one worked out as well. The SSNs were used to round up the Japanese.

 

Run like hell when anyone representing the government is talking about "benefits" to you.

 

I was just talking to a friend who is somewhat of an alarmist in my eyes. He is very worried about the direction of the US. He poses questions to me like, "What will you do when military officers come to your door and tell you to hand over your guns?" I pretty much laugh at him. I say, "That will never happen. It's unconstitutional!"

 

Insert Al Pacino's laugh here. Your friend is not an alarmist. The TREND of the massive erosion of personal rights and freedoms is quite obvious.

 

And then I go to class and read about how military officers with AK-47s made people give up their Japanese Bibles and books of poetry and confiscated their gallon-jugs of soy sauce. It kills me. How did the government pass an order that imprisoned non-criminals, 2/3 of whom were actually born in America, because they had Japanese ancestry? I am shocked. :(

 

 

I was too. Not anymore.

 

By the way, NBC ran some news segments on the implantable RFID chip FOR HUMANS that has been approved. NBC, not some crazy right wing organization. The creator was interviewed and he said that all they have to do is break down resistance by getting some people, especially important people to agree to do this, and then it will be a done deal. You can be scanned from anywhere.

 

But hey, they will be careful to preserve your privacy and your constitututional rights. :001_huh:

Edited by TranquilMind
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I didn't learn about what happened to the Japanese Americans in school, but instead I read about it in a Danielle Steele book when I was in high school (of all things!). I remember immediately asking my parents if this could possibly be true, because it sounded like fiction to me. I was so shocked when my dad assured me that it was in fact true.

 

(Moral of the story...kids can learn from reading twaddle...it happened to me! :D)

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I didn't know about it either until I read about it in a historical fiction series. I had a discussion with my grandmother about it after her recent trip to Hawaii. I was appalled by her opinion. She was/is convinced that it was necessary. :001_huh:

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I never knew it either in school. There is one sanitized story of what this country is about, and then the real story, which is to do all that is expedient, regardless the cost or violation. It reminds me of a scene in a movie where that Irish actor, Colin Farrell, was telling AL Pacino, a CIA agent, "How did you get my personal information?

That's confidential!" Pacino just laughs. "Yeah, RIGHT."

 

By the way, FDR lied through his teeth that SSN's would "never, ever be used as identification, but only for your benefits" in order to pacify the sheep. We can see how that one worked out as well. The SSNs were used to round up the Japanese.

 

Run like hell when anyone representing the government is talking about "benefits" to you.

 

 

 

Insert Al Pacino's laugh here. Your friend is not an alarmist. The TREND of the massive erosion of personal rights and freedoms is quite obvious.

 

 

 

I was too. Not anymore.

 

By the way, NBC ran some news segments on the implantable RFID chip FOR HUMANS that has been approved. NBC, not some crazy right wing organization. The creator was interviewed and he said that all they have to do is break down resistance by getting some people, especially important people to agree to do this, and then it will be a done deal. You can be scanned from anywhere.

 

But hey, they will be careful to preserve your privacy and your constitututional rights. :001_huh:

 

I wish you were not right. :(

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George Takei, Sulu from Star Trek, and a lately funny facebook postings :tongue_smilie:, was one of the Japanese detained during the war. He recently took part in a new musical called Allegiance, which is the story of a family in the interment camps.

 

I remember hearing about it in high school, but it was glossed over completely.

 

It's a part of history I plan to dig into more in the next few years as we approach modern history. Ds is very into Japanese history and WWII in general. I think it's an important aspect to understand America's actions during the war.

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I second the recommendation for Howard Zinn.

 

I was never really interested in History when I was in school. I think the "learn isolated date and event" and "fill in the blank on the test" approach wasproble a thought killer. :) I did like history in college and took all the courses I could fit in as electives.

 

Our (America) short sighted view of history is a big problem, whether you are a conservative or progressive. Every time folks decry the waste of time on history, or why are college students taking loans to study history instead of STEM classes, we are undercutting how important it is.

 

I can't enter the guns vs government argument but I will say that the people need to stay informed about what the government is doing and has done.

 

Not all the internment camps are wiped away or hidden. Tennessee has preserved some of the buildings and has a memorial explaining what happened there. It is one of the state properties. My younger dd has gone to the Southern Teen Leadership Conference (4H) for several years. They use the property for conferences and such and always talk to the 4H kids about why the preserved building and memorial are there.

Edited by Denise in Florida
posting too soon
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There are many dark episodes in US History. Indian Removal by Andrew Jackson, Japanese internment by FDR and more. It does regularly surprise me how many Americans are ignorant of our history.

 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h1567.html

 

http://www.pbs.org/childofcamp/history/index.html

 

That said, I don't think we are barreling toward some dystopian fantasyland at ALL.

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I didn't learn about what happened to the Japanese Americans in school, but instead I read about it in a Danielle Steele book when I was in high school (of all things!). I remember immediately asking my parents if this could possibly be true, because it sounded like fiction to me. I was so shocked when my dad assured me that it was in fact true.

 

(Moral of the story...kids can learn from reading twaddle...it happened to me! :D)

 

Laughing. Yes, I've done the same when I read historical short stories while nursing!

 

Learning can happen!

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Another fiction book I can recommend about the Japanese internment is "Hotel at the Corner of Bitter and Sweet." It's a summer reading book for ds so I read it also.

 

FABULOUS book. I read it two years ago and dd read it last year--- we both loved it.

 

astrid

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I'm not going to into a stupid debate about the President taking away all your guns, but I will say there's a great YA book about the Japanese camps that would be great for your kids- it's called Weedflower. W really enjoyed the audio tape of it several years ago.

...and if this fact surprised you about what has been done to the people of this country, you really should get A People's History by Howard Zinn. Love him or hate him, his book is factual concerning some of the horrid things the US gov't has done to people here.

 

I will look up both of them. Thank you.

 

I didn't learn about what happened to the Japanese Americans in school, but instead I read about it in a Danielle Steele book when I was in high school (of all things!). I remember immediately asking my parents if this could possibly be true, because it sounded like fiction to me. I was so shocked when my dad assured me that it was in fact true.

 

(Moral of the story...kids can learn from reading twaddle...it happened to me! :D)

 

I probably would have thought it was fiction, too. And yes, I've learned some pretty fascinating factoids from twaddley books! :D

 

I didn't know about it either until I read about it in a historical fiction series. I had a discussion with my grandmother about it after her recent trip to Hawaii. I was appalled by her opinion. She was/is convinced that it was necessary. :001_huh:

 

I can see how someone might want to think that way after Pearl Harbor but it just makes me wonder - did they know these were not criminals? Not "questionable people"? They were just good people, living out their lives on the West Coast.

 

George Takei, Sulu from Star Trek, and a lately funny facebook postings :tongue_smilie:, was one of the Japanese detained during the war. He recently took part in a new musical called Allegiance, which is the story of a family in the interment camps.

 

I remember hearing about it in high school, but it was glossed over completely.

 

It's a part of history I plan to dig into more in the next few years as we approach modern history. Ds is very into Japanese history and WWII in general. I think it's an important aspect to understand America's actions during the war.

 

I really don't understand America's actions during the war (in this and a few other respects). :(

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I want to highlight again what Tennessee has done. They have preserved part of the buildings and put up a memorial explaining the camp. My daughter has been to the state camp for a 4H conference and they explained what happened there.

 

This is explained in my previous post which was cut short and then fixed. :glare: Yikes...I need more coffee.

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I have issues with that happening here also. However, we have family who were living in Indonesia when the Japanese invaded there. They were interned in a camp, even though they were just simple teachers...and not even American. An aunt says some of the Japanese were cruel for the sake of being cruel. The family still struggle to speak of those awful years and the ones who experienced it are dying off. Their father died in the camp.

 

I guess my point is that Americans are not the only ones who are known to stomp on people's rights as humans merely based up where they were...or were not...born.

 

Don't read this post as a defensive of the Japanese camps here...it's not. It's just a side point.

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I didn't learn about what happened to the Japanese Americans in school, but instead I read about it in a Danielle Steele book when I was in high school (of all things!). I remember immediately asking my parents if this could possibly be true, because it sounded like fiction to me. I was so shocked when my dad assured me that it was in fact true.

 

(Moral of the story...kids can learn from reading twaddle...it happened to me! :D)

 

True, I have learned many things from mystery novels :lol:

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Denise in Florida;

 

I was never really interested in History when I was in school. I think the "learn isolated date and event" and "fill in the blank on the test" approach wasproble a thought killer. :)

 

 

Yes, it sure was. I think I learned almost nothing in high school. My daughter who just had a great APUSH class (and earned a 5 on the exam! woo hoo) knows far more than I did, though I have learned a lot subsequently, out of interest.

 

 

 

Our (America) short sighted view of history is a big problem, whether you are a conservative or progressive. Every time folks decry the waste of time on history, or why are college students taking loans to study history instead of STEM classes, we are undercutting how important it is.

 

I can't enter the guns vs government argument but I will say that the people need to stay informed about what the government is doing and has done.

 

 

Yes, Ma'am. But ignorant people are a lot easier to control. And this is the purpose of schools, to create easily controlled masses of workers (well, back when there were JOBS!). People who challenge the status quo are dangerous.

 

Not all the internment camps are wiped away or hidden. Tennessee has preserved some of the buildings and has a memorial explaining what happened there. It is one of the state properties. My younger dd has gone to the Southern Teen Leadership Conference (4H) for several years. They use the property for conferences and such and always talk to the 4H kids about why the preserved building and memorial are there

 

 

 

That's cool. Next time we are there in TN, we will try to check it out.

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I didn't know about it either until I read about it in a historical fiction series. I had a discussion with my grandmother about it after her recent trip to Hawaii. I was appalled by her opinion. She was/is convinced that it was necessary. :001_huh:

 

I know what you mean. When I learned about it I asked some older family members and they said it was for the best because it 'protected' the Japanese from angry mobs. :glare:

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There used to be an outstanding exhibit about the internment in the Smithsonian American History Museum. It made me cry.

 

Baseball Saved Us is an excellent picture book about a Japanese-American family sent to an internment camp.

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I didn't learn about what happened to the Japanese Americans in school, but instead I read about it in a Danielle Steele book when I was in high school (of all things!). I remember immediately asking my parents if this could possibly be true, because it sounded like fiction to me. I was so shocked when my dad assured me that it was in fact true.

 

(Moral of the story...kids can learn from reading twaddle...it happened to me! :D)

 

 

I am pretty sure I read about it in a Baby-sitter's Club book. :001_huh: If not, something equally mindless.

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I have issues with that happening here also. However, we have family who were living in Indonesia when the Japanese invaded there. They were interned in a camp, even though they were just simple teachers...and not even American. An aunt says some of the Japanese were cruel for the sake of being cruel. The family still struggle to speak of those awful years and the ones who experienced it are dying off. Their father died in the camp.

I guess my point is that Americans are not the only ones who are known to stomp on people's rights as humans merely based up where they were...or were not...born.

 

Don't read this post as a defensive of the Japanese camps here...it's not. It's just a side point.

 

 

That is actually an interesting point. While not defending the actions of the government at the time, there was a legitimate concern in the eyes of many that we had just entered into a struggle for our survival. You have to think a bit about how the attack on Pearl Harbor struck at the confidence of the nation, and yes, we were scared as a whole.

Historically, immigrants and foreign nationals have not had a good go of it when their home country has went to war with the their new country/country in which they were now residing.

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I have issues with that happening here also. However, we have family who were living in Indonesia when the Japanese invaded there. They were interned in a camp, even though they were just simple teachers...and not even American. An aunt says some of the Japanese were cruel for the sake of being cruel. The family still struggle to speak of those awful years and the ones who experienced it are dying off. Their father died in the camp.

 

I guess my point is that Americans are not the only ones who are known to stomp on people's rights as humans merely based up where they were...or were not...born.

 

Don't read this post as a defensive of the Japanese camps here...it's not. It's just a side point.

 

I'm not saying that Americans are the only one's stomping on rights. It's just that American liberty, the "pursuit of happiness" - the ideals we are enculturated in here makes it seem like these things could not possibly happen here. I have heard enough people speak of Nazi concentration camps and speak of that horror (and it was a horror), but do we think our camps were okay because we didn't kill people or torture them? We stripped them of their livelihoods and most of their possessions and their freedom to live independently, to "pursue happiness." Was it okay to do this because, after all, we gave them army cots to lay on and meals in the mess hall? I'm not "yelling" at you personally, I'm just having a very hard time with this new knowledge and I'm disgusted.

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I find it so odd that the Japanese internment was/is not taught in school.

 

It seems like I've always known about it. My father lived in LA during WWII and kids in his class left for the internment and then right after the war was over, his family moved to an area just north of Manzanar. I read the book Farewell to Manzanar in 7th grade. When I was in high school (and beyond) one of my parent's good friends was a child in a camp in Idaho. And now I live near the place where the first people were ordered to leave.

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That is actually an interesting point. While not defending the actions of the government at the time, there was a legitimate concern in the eyes of many that we had just entered into a struggle for our survival. You have to think a bit about how the attack on Pearl Harbor struck at the confidence of the nation, and yes, we were scared as a whole.

Historically, immigrants and foreign nationals have not had a good go of it when their home country has went to war with the their new country/country in which they were now residing.

 

Right, but this was true with 9/11 also. I lived through that and knew how it felt to be now very vulnerable. I watched military aircraft zoom overhead for a month because of where I live. Would it have been okay to imprison everyone here who worships at a mosque? I am not saying middle-easterners do not suffer prejudice in this country since 9/11, but I don't know of any wholesale government-sanctioned actions that locked up all Muslim Americans; the idea of that even being possible seems absurd.

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I did not learn about it until my book club read Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet a few years ago. It was rather a shock to most of the group - only one member had ever learned about it. I even lived in Puyallup, WA and went to the fairgrounds (the site of one of the internment camps) and had still never known about it. I plan on teaching my children a less whitewashed version of history than I apparently received.

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I'm not saying that Americans are the only one's stomping on rights. It's just that American liberty, the "pursuit of happiness" - the ideals we are enculturated in here makes it seem like these things could not possibly happen here. I have heard enough people speak of Nazi concentration camps and speak of that horror (and it was a horror), but do we think our camps were okay because we didn't kill people or torture them? We stripped them of their livelihoods and most of their possessions and their freedom to live independently, to "pursue happiness." Was it okay to do this because, after all, we gave them army cots to lay on and meals in the mess hall? I'm not "yelling" at you personally, I'm just having a very hard time with this new knowledge and I'm disgusted.

 

Considering we kept millions in bondage for decades and at that time were restricting the freedoms of African Americans throughout the south, and were not 60 years away from the forced removal of thousands of Native Americans from their lands, I don't see why you are so surprised by this new information.

And yes, sadly for the time, the fact that we didn't abuse/starve/kill those interned set us apart from many nations.

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I'm not saying that Americans are the only one's stomping on rights. It's just that American liberty, the "pursuit of happiness" - the ideals we are enculturated in here makes it seem like these things could not possibly happen here. I have heard enough people speak of Nazi concentration camps and speak of that horror (and it was a horror), but do we think our camps were okay because we didn't kill people or torture them? We stripped them of their livelihoods and most of their possessions and their freedom to live independently, to "pursue happiness." Was it okay to do this because, after all, we gave them army cots to lay on and meals in the mess hall? I'm not "yelling" at you personally, I'm just having a very hard time with this new knowledge and I'm disgusted.

 

I'm disgusted by it as well. I've been to Pearl Harbor, it's a sobering place. Why were the Japanese rounded up and not the Germans? I haven't studied the whys behind it, but was it because they didn't "look" like Americans? Was it because the Germans didn't attack US soil? If the Germans had been rounded up, half of my family and part of dh's family would have been involved.

 

I'm glad we'll get to study US history at home, where we can delve into some of these not so embracing moments of our history.

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Right, but this was true with 9/11 also. I lived through that and knew how it felt to be now very vulnerable. I watched military aircraft zoom overhead for a month because of where I live. Would it have been okay to imprison everyone here who worships at a mosque? I am not saying middle-easterners do not suffer prejudice in this country since 9/11, but I don't know of any wholesale government-sanctioned actions that locked up all Muslim Americans; the idea of that even being possible seems absurd.

 

I did not say it was okay, but at the time it was a standard practice in many countries. You do realize that the way civilians were treated in WWII changed how many nations, particularly the west, viewed war crimes, and what we learned from that time is why interning Muslims wasn't even a remote possibility.

A little known twist to this is that the Japanese military did expect assistance from Americans of Japanese descent if there ever was an invasion of Hawaii. It is not likely they would have gotten it, but from their cultural perspective they thought they should.

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I'm disgusted by it as well. I've been to Pearl Harbor, it's a sobering place. Why were the Japanese rounded up and not the Germans? I haven't studied the whys behind it, but was it because they didn't "look" like Americans? Was it because the Germans didn't attack US soil? If the Germans had been rounded up, half of my family and part of dh's family would have been involved.

 

I'm glad we'll get to study US history at home, where we can delve into some of these not so embracing moments of our history.

 

Germans were not rounded partly due to racial bias, and partly due to the sheer number of them that had immigrated to the US. Many recent German immigrants were put on watch lists.

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Right, but this was true with 9/11 also. I lived through that and knew how it felt to be now very vulnerable. I watched military aircraft zoom overhead for a month because of where I live. Would it have been okay to imprison everyone here who worships at a mosque? I am not saying middle-easterners do not suffer prejudice in this country since 9/11, but I don't know of any wholesale government-sanctioned actions that locked up all Muslim Americans; the idea of that even being possible seems absurd.

 

EXACTLY! That is progress, not regression, correct?

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There used to be an outstanding exhibit about the internment in the Smithsonian American History Museum. It made me cry.

 

Baseball Saved Us is an excellent picture book about a Japanese-American family sent to an internment camp.

 

Is the exhibit still there? I could look at it when we head 'round that way again.

 

I find it so odd that the Japanese internment was/is not taught in school.

 

It seems like I've always known about it. My father lived in LA during WWII and kids in his class left for the internment and then right after the war was over, his family moved to an area just north of Manzanar. I read the book Farewell to Manzanar in 7th grade. When I was in high school (and beyond) one of my parent's good friends was a child in a camp in Idaho. And now I live near the place where the first people were ordered to leave.

 

I suspect it is more likely taught out west. Farewell to Manzanar is one of the book options we could have read; I chose Neisi Daughter. That family went to Minidoka in Idaho.

 

I did not learn about it until my book club read Hotel on the Corner of Bitter and Sweet a few years ago. It was rather a shock to most of the group - only one member had ever learned about it. I even lived in Puyallup, WA and went to the fairgrounds (the site of one of the internment camps) and had still never known about it. I plan on teaching my children a less whitewashed version of history than I apparently received.

 

Puyallup - yes, that is where they went (in the book) to the temporary camp, with the bizarre name, "Camp Harmony." And I agree - I want my kids to know this!

 

Considering we kept millions in bondage for decades and at that time were restricting the freedoms of African Americans throughout the south, and were not 60 years away from the forced removal of thousands of Native Americans from their lands, I don't see why you are so surprised by this new information.

And yes, sadly for the time, the fact that we didn't abuse/starve/kill those interned set us apart from many nations.

 

Most likely because I did not know about this before. I have had my whole life to come to terms with slavery and oppression of blacks. And I knew about Native Americans being "relocated" to the reservations. I knew these things and they are not fine with me, either, but the Civil War is thoroughly taught and I've known about this for practically ever.

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I'm not saying that Americans are the only one's stomping on rights. It's just that American liberty, the "pursuit of happiness" - the ideals we are enculturated in here makes it seem like these things could not possibly happen here. I have heard enough people speak of Nazi concentration camps and speak of that horror (and it was a horror), but do we think our camps were okay because we didn't kill people or torture them? We stripped them of their livelihoods and most of their possessions and their freedom to live independently, to "pursue happiness." Was it okay to do this because, after all, we gave them army cots to lay on and meals in the mess hall? I'm not "yelling" at you personally, I'm just having a very hard time with this new knowledge and I'm disgusted.

 

No, it's not okay. At least, as I said, to me it's not. Now, my relatives who were in our military during that time see it differently. But as Chocolate Reign said...it was a time of shock and fear. So...in relation to that frame of thought, then I guess I'd have to say that IF out of the mindset of that time my country was going to intern people, then YES, I am glad we were not tortuous to innocent people.

 

I really don't think it's a cut and dried thing. War changes everything from the testimonies I have heard from older relatives who have lived through wars, both on American soil, and in Europe and SE Asia. Is it right? No. There are books upon books with people who have lifelong regrets for choices they made during WWII.

 

I'm not arguing with you OP. I, too, was appalled when I first learned of this period of American History. I, too, wondered why it wasn't taught...why it seemed to be hidden away, when I was in school.

 

These are difficult things. I truly believe that fear can change people. It is blatantly clear in that thread with the report of the boyfriend who laid a 4mo baby on the floor of a theatre and saved only HIMSELF from the shooter in CO. I wonder if he can sleep at night. Lord knows there are many, many elderly people all over this world who have not slept a night in decades as they are haunted by their choices from years ago.

 

Again, my thoughts are fringe thoughts to this conversation...not an argument. :) I do agree with you. Wrong is wrong.

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And I knew about Native Americans being "relocated" to the reservations. I knew these things and they are not fine with me, either, but the Civil War is thoroughly taught and I've known about this for practically ever.

 

But what do you really know about them? That they happened? Under what circumstances have people been oppressed? By whom were they oppressed? Why? Not knowing the answers to these questions *is* complacency.

 

Yes, good point. But I don't think that means we can be complacent.

 

I agree, which is why people should know about history *and* actual current events. But, very few people take the time for that. Why read a history book or The Federalist Papers when the crazy guy raking in money of the moment can tell you what to believe?

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But what do you really know about them? That they happened? Under what circumstances have people been oppressed? By whom were they oppressed? Why? Not knowing the answers to these questions *is* complacency.

 

 

And have you kept up with the current state of reservations? For example, Pine Ridge is the size of Rhode Island and Delaware, combined. Most of the people have no running water, sewage, or electricity. 80%+ are unemployed. Life expectancy for men is 47, for women it's 52. Infant mortality is five times the national average. Rates of everything are devestating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation#Health_and_healthcare

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I did learn about that in school. But I didn't learn much about the native Americans. I was pretty shocked by some of those stories. It makes me wonder how people can be so proud of the whole America and freedom blah blah thing when we essentially rounded up people already living here and sent them to their death (in the name of freedom). We even did this to those natives who were beginning to become intertwined with the European settlers.

 

Yep. I call what is taught as *history*, "White Man's History".

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It is shocking to me that people didn't learn about these events in school. I did. I grew up on the East Coast. I remember in US History class in high school having a Japanese-American gentleman come talk to us about the internment camp, and how his family lost their farm. My rising sixth grader learned about the camps in school this year and the Indian Removal by Jackson. (Of course, he also read Zinn in his spare time.)

 

I do think we need to continue to educate ourselves and our children.

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But what do you really know about them? That they happened? Under what circumstances have people been oppressed? By whom were they oppressed? Why? Not knowing the answers to these questions *is* complacency.

 

I cannot claim to know a lot about the Indian removal. I couldn't give you dates. Some of this has also been a part of the class I'm in right now, but I also heard of Indian removal and treaties growing up, and I've heard of the appalling conditions at reservations currently. But I don't understand how this can be improved or rectified now.

 

 

I agree, which is why people should know about history *and* actual current events. But, very few people take the time for that. Why read a history book or The Federalist Papers when the crazy guy raking in money of the moment can tell you what to believe?

 

What do you mean, though, by "actual" current events? I'm not sure if you're saying, "You need to keep up with the news," (which I do), or if you're saying, "Not the news you see on tv." You can PM me if you'd rather.

 

And have you kept up with the current state of reservations? For example, Pine Ridge is the size of Rhode Island and Delaware, combined. Most of the people have no running water, sewage, or electricity. 80%+ are unemployed. Life expectancy for men is 47, for women it's 52. Infant mortality is five times the national average. Rates of everything are devestating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation#Health_and_healthcare

 

I have heard of this. I don't know how this could be improved.

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And have you kept up with the current state of reservations? For example, Pine Ridge is the size of Rhode Island and Delaware, combined. Most of the people have no running water, sewage, or electricity. 80%+ are unemployed. Life expectancy for men is 47, for women it's 52. Infant mortality is five times the national average. Rates of everything are devestating. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Ridge_Indian_Reservation#Health_and_healthcare

 

I am Native American. My grandmother was chief of our tribe. We have repeatedly sued the US government to force it to live up to its promises. That said, some tribes are doing much better than others. You should visit the Chickasaws in Oklahoma like I did the week before last. Of course, that is all being built on casino money.

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But what do you really know about them? That they happened? Under what circumstances have people been oppressed? By whom were they oppressed? Why? Not knowing the answers to these questions *is* complacency.

 

 

 

I agree, which is why people should know about history *and* actual current events. But, very few people take the time for that. Why read a history book or The Federalist Papers when the crazy guy raking in money of the moment can tell you what to believe?

 

I'm always up for MORE education. I hate glossed-over history.

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