What made Americans fat..........

[justamouse]

I can go for long periods of time without eating, without any kind of hunger pangs or cravings. I have to practically remind myself to eat now. This is very different than the nearly constant craving while on a low fat diet.

 

That's where I am now. If I crave carbs it's because I haven't eaten enough fats for the day.

 

I would LOVE to eat high-protein (another hypoglycemic here!!).

 

But.

 

Any tips on eating high protein with food allergies to dairy, eggs, and all nuts?!?!?! (Plus I generally refuse to eat factory farmed meat on principle, and we're low income. I have part of a local cow & pig in my freezer, and a bit of chicken. It needs to last for 6 months.)

 

The dairy is the mildest allergy, so I am introducing Greek yogurt to the allergic kid today. *crosses fingers* He had several teeny tiny bites. The nuts are an absolute no-go zone, even with things that are cross-contaminated. No nuts. At all.

 

 

Wow, you'd have to do just meats? It's not impossible, but that would be hard. The really good thing about paleo/low carb is that you really get to the point where you don't eat a lot.

[KungFuPanda]

The whole "Americans are fat because they don't walk or bike to work, the market, school, etc." comment just never fails to make me wince. It's almost always offered through the lenses of those who live in smaller, densely populated nations with adequate public transportation, a fresh market on nearly every corner and super highways circling AROUND the cities, not THROUGH them.

 

Walk or bike to the market? I'd definitely be thin because I'd be flattened by an 18 wheeler if I attempted that. ;)

 

astrid

 

I live in a VERY walkable city/suburb with sidewalks, local groceries, and paved bike paths. I think the farthest ANYONE could live from a store is about two miles. The farmers market comes to every neighborhood at least one day a week. For the folks that WANT to walk, it's great. Most people DON'T WANT to take the extra time or have to carry things. The parking lot is always full.

 

My daughter began school last February. She complains that she's the only one walking to school. This is high school! It's only half a mile and there are only a couple kids walking. They don't even have to cross the street. The bike path runs under the road. Also, there are crossing guards at the intersections. I consider it VERY walkable. (I will drive it it's stormy.)

 

I know a LOT of people who spend more time sitting EVERY DAY than they spend on their feet. I know one lady who mounted her computer higher so she'd have to stand to use it. She lost 40 lbs! I think it DOES VERY OFTEN come down to making quick, easy choices that are bad in the long run. Collectively, we ARE effort adverse or over scheduled with business that encourage us to cut corners in the health and nutrition department.

[VeritasMama]

None of this explains why other cultures with a diet that is heavily based on carbs do not have the same obesity problems as Americans do.

The main difference is not that the Americans eat more carbs (I am coming from a country of bread lovers with amazing bread which is the basis for two meals each day) but rather the amount of physical activity that is built into a daily schedule.

 

ETA: In former times, most people could not afford a diet high in protein and fat - carbs was almost all they had to satisfy their hunger. Yet obesity was not an issue because they did physical work. Nor is obesity a problem for people in other parts of the world whose daily meals consist mainly of a couple bowls of rice because they have nothing else.

 

High protein does not necessarily mean meat. Dairy has protein, beans, other sources are just as effective. And fat does not have to come from meat either, think butter and olive oil.

 

It is true that activity is important as well, but we simply aren't planting fields by hand or threshing anymore. The amount of activity needed to burn a high number of carbs used to be built into daily life, where as now we have technology to do most of our daily labor. Since it is hard for us to get 6-8 hours of excercise a day, we need to reduce our carbs (not just grains and natural sugars, but processed sugar as well).

[Dory]

Meat.

 

Although I don't know about going totally non grocery store/factory meat.

 

I don't get the argument that it's super expensive though. For example, I often buy chicken quarters for 59 cents a pound. If you ate a pound of that you would get about 1/2 pound of meat. That's plenty for a meal! How is that expensive? Even if you paid $1.50 a pound it's not too bad. I usually serve meat and veggies. I have completely cut out the starchy sides. I don't buy packaged snacks. Everything is pretty much meat and veg and some fruit for my kids.

 

Up here chicken is $2.50/lb. Unless you raise it yourself. If you dare to look at beef you'll pay $5 and up per lb.

[Stacy in NJ]

Well, I don't know anyone who ever used the "food pyramid" as a guide. It was more of an "oh, isn't that interesting" type of thing, and then forgotten about. So my Official Scientific Theory is that Americans have NOT gotten fatter due to "Outmoded Food Pyramid Concepts," but rather because people don't use any guide AT ALL and just eat what's easy, cheap and tastes good. Without doing any research whatsover on the subject.

 

I call it Trish's Path of Least Resistance Theory on American Weight Gain. I may even turn it into a geometric shape with arrows to make it more believable.

 

You do know that millions of Americans are relying on the advice of experts(doctors, nutritionists) who are giving them not only wrong information but information that is actually promoting the obesity, right?

[justLisa]

I do not buy all non grocery meat. I get a lot at Costco. It would cost me about $30 for ONE BIRD, to find a source of pastured meat birds. I just can't do that.

[LibraryLover]

How we lived changed rapidly in a short period of time. Our biology hasn't caught up with those changes. ;) Far fewer of us living a hunt & gather, or agrarian life.

 

We've don't have go to miles to fetch village well water. We also stopped running from saber tooths ;), and the physical challenge of bringing down a wooly, and getting it ready for lunch, is not the same as walking up a couple of flights of stairs at work, or throwing a couple of grocery store steak tips on the grill. We also get food year 'round now. Anything we want. Not just some skinny bunny we chased down in the snow.

 

Everyone is getting fat, just not at the same rate.

 

The kids in China who can get sugar and soda, get it. A lot of it. Same for Japan. South Korea, too.

 

High fructose corn syrup. I High Five those countries who don't allow it.

 

(Fat people live in Europe too, btw. The skinny folks in the cities are skinny everywhere. You won't find too many local chubs shopping on 5th Ave in Manhattan, or on Newbury St in Boston any more than you will find local chubs scooting off on their Vespas in Rome or Paris.)

 

The belief that children should not walk a mile in the rain, or play stick ball in the street with 'mean kids' who will teach your kids bad manners.

 

And hardly anyone has a horse to ride and care for these days. Just 100 years ago, one had to harness up, shovel manure etc, even in Manhattan.

 

Plus Eve eating that apple surely screwed up the prior perfect female metabolism. ;)

Edited July 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[Jen in PA]

I've known a few people on low carb diets that had to add carbs back in, especially if they were really active.

 

Okay, this could be me. I am not very good at sitting still.:D

[Stacy in NJ]

I would LOVE to eat high-protein (another hypoglycemic here!!).

 

But.

 

Any tips on eating high protein with food allergies to dairy, eggs, and all nuts?!?!?! (Plus I generally refuse to eat factory farmed meat on principle, and we're low income. I have part of a local cow & pig in my freezer, and a bit of chicken. It needs to last for 6 months.)

 

The dairy is the mildest allergy, so I am introducing Greek yogurt to the allergic kid today. *crosses fingers* He had several teeny tiny bites. The nuts are an absolute no-go zone, even with things that are cross-contaminated. No nuts. At all.

 

There's a great cookbook by Bill Staley and Hayley Mason that's wonderful. Palo's don't do dairy - as I understand it. They focus on protein, veggies and fruit.

[Dory]

Ok. So lets say it is $2.50 a pound. If you eat a pound of meat with a bit of veg on the side it's still relatively inexpensive. And you are fuller.

 

Granted one can buy 10 pounds of rice for peanuts, but I am starved on rice and I don't think it's all that healthy.

 

I'd have to eat a lot of chicken to get enough b12 into my diet. I guess I'm lucky in that I get to choose from a variety of meat for relatively cheap since we raise it ourselves. On the times that I have to buy things I estimated that we spend approximately $25/ meal to feed our family of 5. Not too bad, and that was a meal of chicken, mashed sweet potatoes, raw carrots, steamed broccoli, and a tossed salad with kale and spinach instead of lettuce.

[justamouse]

You do know that millions of Americans are relying on the advice of experts(doctors, nutritionists) who are giving them not only wrong information but information that is actually promoting the obesity, right?

 

Drs have NO right to be handing out nutrition advice. Not at all. They know nothing about it, unless they specialize in it. My just brand spankin new diabetic Dad got advice that was *horrible* from his GP. There are good ones out there, but the majority are ignorant oh nutrition.

 

HEre's a mind boggling graph.

http://www.dietdoctor.com/stunning-saturated-fat-and-the-european-paradox

 

 

That would make a nutritionists head explode. And it's also WHY the Italians, French, and so forth are leaner. Full fats, moderate portions.

 

Dr Mary Vernon, MD, is one of the world's foremost experts on treating obesity and diabetes with low carbohydrate nutrition. She is a practicing family physician, educates doctors on low carb and is active in and former president of the American Society of Bariatric Physicians (doctors specializing in treating obese patients).

 

Nobody knows more about the practicalities of low carb than dr. Mary Vernon. Here she explains it for you.

[justLisa]

Neither can I. I still feel like eating the factory bird is better than eating the factory box of Twinkies.

 

Um, yeah. Though I did once do the "side of beef" thing. It was grass fed. It was HORRID. I know there are good sources, but I did not find one. We just couldn't eat anymore. I ended up giving much of it away, and to some lady who made animal food. I think that is why I hate beef so much. Maybe I should try one of those marbly looking ribeyes I make the rest of them :tongue_smilie:

[justLisa]

Well, I will confess that I bought some Australian grass fed beef I saw in my local grocery store and for whatever reason was kinda freaked out, didn't enjoy it, and threw most of it away. I have no idea what the deal was!

 

My husband won't eat beef because he claims he doesn't like the taste. Honestly I think he is freaked out about mad cow disease (something talked about a lot in Germany). So I buy beef for me and anything else for him.

 

Yeah my FIL is like that. Maybe living most his life in Poland. Seriously dont' know what's up with the grass fed meat. I really wish I knew where these people are getting this awesome tasting stuff. I think our bad cow incident 5 years ago is why it still makes me gag. Though it's weird, I LOVE the smell of it and have no problem cooking it.

[LibraryLover]

Ok, but the time period between running away from saber tooth's to now is huge and people weren't as fat 100 years ago as they are now.

 

 

I talked about shoveling the manure. I talked about not playing stickball. I thought I covered everything. I thought I did a decent job covering 2.2 million years. :D Although only 35k years as the beings we think of as human. We were really quite something else 2-3 millions years ago.

 

Btw, folks were fat 100 years ago, just not so many were so fat.

Edited July 18, 2012 by LibraryLover

[LibraryLover]

Ime, people in many parts of Europe enjoy their food, take their time with it. Long lunches even now. Sit, stop, chat, have some water. Don't send the intern to McDonald's and 7/11 for Big Gulps to drip all over your computer as you keep working. Go eat real food.

Edited July 19, 2012 by LibraryLover

[stripe]

None of this explains why other cultures with a diet that is heavily based on carbs do not have the same obesity problems as Americans do.

The main difference is not that the Americans eat more carbs (I am coming from a country of bread lovers with amazing bread which is the basis for two meals each day) but rather the amount of physical activity that is built into a daily schedule.

 

ETA: In former times, most people could not afford a diet high in protein and fat - carbs was almost all they had to satisfy their hunger. Yet obesity was not an issue because they did physical work. Nor is obesity a problem for people in other parts of the world whose daily meals consist mainly of a couple bowls of rice because they have nothing else.

 

You know what's interesting too is the sort of carb, because most people ate more whole grains. I had a conversation with my father in law about what he ate as a kid, and it was a lot of grains and cooked cereals, rather than the white bread/pasta/rice that everyone eats now. Also people had to do things like mill the grains themselves or other things in which daily life is/was physically taxing. I think the amount of unhealthy snacking, empty calories, availability of food at an instant, and untasty foods (so we eat more to compensate, plus the use of non-homemade foods. Restaurants add tons of salt, sugar and fat to keep things tasty. Not really the case at home, but who cooks from scratch? Those who do are generally healthier.

 

My husband had an American teacher when he was in high school. While he was staying in my husband's hometown, he walked -- only -- and ate local foods. He was normal weight. As soon as he returned home, he returned to being obese.

[stripe]

Yes. Our ped's office recently added a new questionnaire about heart health - on an iPad, to make it more irritating, er, cool to fill out - and its focus is fruits and vegetables, and how much saturated fat you are having. Every well checkup, I hear about how we should switch from 2% milk to skim because of the saturated fat (my kids are not overweight even remotely, and need all the fat they can get to balance the carbs they eat :tongue_smilie:). I love my ped dearly, but I'm not switching the milk :)

 

This is about the only diet question the ped asks. Not about general fat, either, only the milk. As one of my kids is exceedingly skinny, I told her I was keeping the whole milk and she agreed that was smart. But for the other kid, she had pushed for 2% milk.

[Element]

I do. I eat a few handfuls of almonds. Still losing weight.

 

I am the same way. I can't eat a wide variety of foods because I have ongoing urological issues (I.C.) Almonds are one of the few foods I can eat so I eat a few handfuls a day. I never watch my fat, carb, sodium, or calorie intakes, but I don't like meat and I can't have much sugar at all. I'm would say I'm average-sized (5'5", 127 lbs.) I do watch my cholesterol intake as a preventative measure. (I don't have an issue with cholesterol yet, but most of the women in my family do.)

[justLisa]

This is about the only diet question the ped asks. Not about general fat, either, only the milk. As one of my kids is exceedingly skinny, I told her I was keeping the whole milk and she agreed that was smart. But for the other kid, she had pushed for 2% milk.

 

Isn't that funny? Like kids need to live on milk. The only thing a ped ever asked me was to make sure I was not nursing to many times a day, and them what milk are they drinking after

[Onceuponatime]

I think it has much more to do with processed and GMO foods. I am astounded how hard I have to work to find just pure, whole-ingredient foods that I can afford, but that is all my grandmother and great-grandmother ever ate!

 

My mother's parents and grandparents ate a very starchy diet, but it was all 100% natural food. They were German American farmers in northern Indiana. They used lots of sugar, white flour for bread, noodles, cakes, and cookies, a zillion potatoes every year, home-canned vegetables and fruits, lots of bean and vegetable soups, and home-raised meat.

 

Their diet looked like an Amish cookbook with less pie and more noodle. But they certainly had lots of baked goods and a lot of sugar.

 

They worked very hard physically. Again, none were the least bit fat.

 

My DH is very lean, strong, and visibly muscular, and he's been the same size and weight for the last 20 years. He likes one serving of meat or egg per day, but otherwise eats huge salads, lots of fresh fruit, and whole grains, beans, nuts, and seeds. He gets his fats from avocadoes, nuts, a little butter, a little animal fat, and olive oil, but on any given day he eats very little fat.

 

Sometimes I wonder if LC/HF works for so many people is because the foods involved in that diet are whole foods and less likely to be genetically modified.

 

I agree with this and the Op. Here's my take: Processed/fast food = weight gain. Slow/unprocessed food= burn more calories, eat healthier.

 

Think about how many more calories you burn making a loaf of bread by hand from start to finish, compared to opening a bag of processed bread, not to mention the difference in ingredients.

 

I think the problem is not a simple one that can be whittled down to one or two variables. It hasn't been that long since most people in this country looked fit and trim compared to today. Watch a movie or television show made in the 60's or 70's. You see almost no overweight people.

 

What is different?

 

*Soda is now the drink of choice in our nation, it is cheaper than real juice or milk. Diet soda is the beverage of choice for the overweight and diabetic. I believe soda is the number one cause of food caused health problems by in this country, I've seen info to back this up.

*There are more choices of processed foods, in more flavors, colors, sizes, all scientifically guaranteed to provide you the nutrition of the "real thing" with less fuss and muss. This appeals to so many senses and the desire to "save time" for television watching or video game playing. What people do not realize is that all the fuss and muss of preparing real food by scratch and cleaning up afterwords, makes us healthier.

* The cost of food, especially the worst offenders, has been kept artificially low in relation to inflation and income. This can make people less careful and less conservative when they shop and eat.

* Plus, portions in many restaurants are twice the size of what an average person should eat. Eating out is now seen as a normal part of life for many people. Food in restaurants has more calories from bad fats and carbohydrates, and more sodium, than similar food made at home.

 

I could go on and on. Growing practices. Hybridization. Subsidies. You could combine all the opinions posted on this thread and you just begin to scratch the surface. There is more to the problem than science, there is also psychology, culture, and education.

 

The magic bullets are many: Eat slow food. Eat real food, mostly plants. Eat whole foods. Eat less, move more. Adapting these principles to fit your life in your own way can only improve it. They can be used in many ways, and each person's way may look different. JMHO :D

[TranquilMind]

The scientific consensus on the "why" of America’s obesity problem has recently- since about 2002- undergone a profound paradigm shift.

 

The old way of thinking illustrated by the food pyramid with grains and carbs as the base of the pyramid is and was wrong and damaging. We should be eating far fewer carbs/grains (whether whole grain or not) and more fat and protein.

 

Respected physicians who head the nutrition science departments at Harvard and Duke have conducted clinical trials (not observational studies - for those who care about the distinction) which have shown:

 

1. Carbs cause insulin resistance which promotes obesity and weight gain.

2. Fat does not as previously thought cause heart disease.

3. Type 2 diabetes can be cured by practicing a LCHF (low carb/high fat) diet.

 

If diet, health, and weight gain/loss is a concern for you, please look into LCHF diets and do some research. Here are some valuable links:

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17684196?dopt=Abstract

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html?scp=1&sq=what%20if%20its%20all%20been%20a%20big%20fat%20lie?&st=cse

 

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/pyramid/

 

Stepping off my soap box now......

I can't be just that, though. The old pyramid has been in use for what, 50-100 years? People weren't fat when I was growing up, and we had the food pyramid. But we didn't sit on our butts in front of screens all days back then.

[phathui5]

But WHY do americans eat too much???? Why are people eating a ton and still hungry? That is the real question, and one that the OP answered.

 

I think a lot of it is that the kinds of food we're eating don't keep us feeling full. If you eat a meal from Taco Bell, or a package of Ramen, you've consumed somewhere from 400-2000 calories and you're going to be hungry again an hour later. Eating foods with fiber and protein keep our blood sugar stable and keep us from overeating.

[Momof3littles]

I agree with the OP's POV, as I'm a G. Taubes fan and an insulin resistant woman.

 

One other point I haven't seen raised yet is the concept of environmental estrogens and things like BPA. BPA has been linked to central adiposity and insulin resistance. In rats exposed to it, there are changes in hair color in the offspring, which indicates it may impact animals on an epigenetic level. Not all animals will experience offspring with the yellow hair color, but the percentage of rats that have yellow hair is higher with exposure in the mother.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/obesity-epigenetics-and-gene-regulation-927

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/jirtle-epigenetics.html

 

If you look into the whole "thrifty" gene, you can see changes in the 2nd generation.

 

Smoking, food supply, chemical exposures, etc. may all affect "generational epigenetic inheritance." http://genome.cshlp.org/content/20/12/1623.full That area of research is still in the fairly early stages.

 

Essentially, the environment and exposures experienced by your grandparents can cause changes that affect your health.

[Momof3littles]

As a woman with PCOS and insulin resistance, but a normal BMI, I can tell you that it isn't a simple as junk food, willpower, etc.

 

My personal experience with IR has made me very sympathetic to the chronically obese population.

 

I was a vegetarian for about 8 years in high school and college. I have always consumed a "healthy" diet by the standard recommendations. I didn't grow up with white bread, soda, etc. I was active, I was outdoorsy, I played sports, and watched very little TV. I was not overweight.

 

I can tell you that I always wondered why if I ate a bagel (even a large one), or a bowl of breakfast cereal, I was ravenous (!!!) an hour later. My stomach would be growling. Sometimes I felt shaky, like I needed to eat immediately. During this period of time I was probably 100-110 lbs.

 

Only once I went through infertility, got a PCOS diagnosis, etc. did it all make sense. When I consume a lot of carbohydrate, including the so called healthy whole grains, I spiked my blood sugar, caused my insulin to rise so high that my blood sugar then crashed, leaving me hungry, sometimes shaky, sometimes full of brain fog. When you ride that rollercoaster, it is nearly impossible to feel sated. Now, as a woman who was not overweight, no one ever gave me grief about what I ate, or how much I ate. But I am now very sympathetic to what someone who is obese *feels.* I think many people do feel chronically hungry, function in a state of hyperinsulemia, and have trouble regulating the frequency and portions of food they eat as a result. I did, but *externally* that wasn't obvious. However, eating that way, I didn't cycle, couldn't ovulate, etc.

 

When I regulated my insulin, my hunger regulated itself. Brain fog was a thing of the past. I didn't feel shaky and out of it. I didn't need to snack between meals. It had nothing to do with willpower, but really was just getting my hormones, including insulin, back into alignment. I started cycling and ovulating (I also take metformin, which is an insulin sensitizing drug).

 

I know the hunger I felt was *real* and true. And it was hormonally mediated, driven by insulin. I can understand how someone needs to eat a lot to feel full, or how they may feel really and truly hungry and hour after they eat. That rollercoaster is so detrimental.

[AngieC]

* Plus, portions in many restaurants are twice the size of what an average person should eat. Eating out is now seen as a normal part of life for many people. Food in restaurants has more calories from bad fats and carbohydrates, and more sodium, than similar food made at home.

 

 

 

http://www.thedaily.com/page/2012/05/25/052512-news-bigger-burgers/

[nono]

I can't be just that, though. The old pyramid has been in use for what, 50-100 years? People weren't fat when I was growing up, and we had the food pyramid. But we didn't sit on our butts in front of screens all days back then.

 

Right, but couldn't the TV be masking something else? Maybe it's just a timeline marker of the age in which it became a problem. Perhaps the continued decline of varieties of wheat during the timeframe contributes? Or the severe uptake in "tv dinners" which is now just common frozen food? I seem to recall that in The End of Overeating in America, the author said that the frozen food labels nutritional labels were not accurate by a long shot. So, if people are getting the nutritional equivalent of sawdust in their convenience food, and then filling up on carbs because they are what we're supposed to have the most of, it's compounding the issue. They're hungry because they are seeking nutrition. Then, they are not satisfied because they're eating the least nutient dense types of food to be "healthy."

[PeacefulChaos]

Wait... so you are saying that my General Tso's chicken (from Walmart, no less)and 20 oz Dr. Pepper (which I'm still working on) with a chocolate iced donut (with sprinkles) for dessert wasn't a good lunch for me to lose weight with? Dang it.

 

:leaving:

 

:lol:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The whole "Americans are fat because they don't walk or bike to work, the market, school, etc." comment just never fails to make me wince. It's almost always offered through the lenses of those who live in smaller, densely populated nations with adequate public transportation, a fresh market on nearly every corner and super highways circling AROUND the cities, not THROUGH them.

 

Walk or bike to the market? I'd definitely be thin because I'd be flattened by an 18 wheeler if I attempted that. ;)

 

astrid

:iagree: A lot of people still live in rural settings, also, which makes biking and/or walking out of the question.

The democratic process should work on a local level. Why haven't Americans managed to develop their communities in ways that provide for an "0n foot and bike" lifestyle? Why does everyone have to own a car to have reliable transportation, except in a few major cities? It's not like the Chinese did our community planning and zoning. We did it.

Because the average person isn't the person in charge, who is making the decisions. Most people just want what is most convenient, and that is getting in the car to go somewhere. Now I think more people are wanting what you're speaking of, but now it's already been built and done.

It may not be possible in your location, but there are plenty where it is.

I live in a small town in the US. the elementary school is less than a mile away, the middle school one mile. We were the only family in the street to walk to school. Anybody could have done so, they chose to drive and set this as an example for their kids.

I agree, growing up in a nation where people walk shapes perspectives - but the main thing is attitude. In our town, walking and biking is perfectly possible - yet almost nobody chooses to do it. We live within 15 minutes biking distance form work. It is also a matter of priority. We intentionally chose our hosue so that walking and biking to work and school would be possible because it is important to us. We could have chosen to live ten miles outside of town where this would not be possible, but we prefer to have physical activity built into our lives. It is a question of choice.

I think saying that it's all a question of choice is seriously oversimplifying.

Does anyone else find it ironic that I am reading this thread as I sit on my couch eating kettle chips straight from the bag and drinking my diet Mt. Dew.

 

I could have stuck to my low carb/high fiber/whole foods diet today (or any day). I could step outside and get on my bike and go ride 30 miles, go for a walk or run, or go swim laps at the pool that is less than a 1/4 mile from my house -- all readily available to me by a fabulous paved trail system that connects right here in my neighborhood (less than 100 yards from my doorstep). I could just walk downstairs and get on the treadmill or do some sit ups, jumping jacks, lift some weights or jump rope. I AM NOT DOING ANY OF THOSE THINGS!!

 

Why am I not getting rid of the last 10 pounds that I'd like to? Why do I struggle keeping the 15-20 lbs I lost a year and a half ago off?

I believe it's due to everything you are all talking about. It's ALL of it -- at least for me personally. The scientific realities, the GMOS and chemically altered foods, the expense of trying to eat nothing but whole foods, the not having my own garden and raising my own food, the fast food and packaged food access, the portion sizes I've been raised on, the eating just because I feel like it because I'm bored . . . and the fact that I am sitting on my butt and not doing anything.

No argument from me here about any this. So many days I do wish there was no such thing as fast food restaurants, that I had my own garden & raised my own livestock, that there were no chemically altered foods, and that I couldn't just go into the store and buy the kettle chips and liquid poison like I just did prior to sitting down on my couch instead of being active. For me, my weight issue and health concerns are based on everything that has been talked about in this discussion.

:iagree: except I have no desire to have my own garden - ugh, such a pain. Or my own livestock. :D

[wintermom]

None of this explains why other cultures with a diet that is heavily based on carbs do not have the same obesity problems as Americans do.

The main difference is not that the Americans eat more carbs (I am coming from a country of bread lovers with amazing bread which is the basis for two meals each day) but rather the amount of physical activity that is built into a daily schedule.

 

ETA: In former times, most people could not afford a diet high in protein and fat - carbs was almost all they had to satisfy their hunger. Yet obesity was not an issue because they did physical work. Nor is obesity a problem for people in other parts of the world whose daily meals consist mainly of a couple bowls of rice because they have nothing else.

 

I agree with this totally. Norway in particular has a typical diet with lots of breads and carbs, and LOTS of physical activity. There is also not a culture of fast food restaurants and highly processed foods. Dairy products, small amounts of meat - especially fish and seafood - are also very common.

[Liz CA]

Yes, and I really like all the explanations in "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon.

It is a cookbook with tons of explanations of what food does and as importantly as good food, the right preparation of food.

[PiCO]

I have not seen a fat long distance hiker or bicyclist.

 

I've never seen a short basketball player. Maybe I'll start playing basketball so I grow...

[mrs.m]

totally my own experience here. and not much "science".

 

I drink diet soda, water, coffee & milk. I don't make my own bread, nor do I focus too heavily on eating organic or whole foods. I don't really think too much about carbs and proteins. I focus on portion size and calorie intake and I'll admit, that some foods aren't worth eating but I don't think we would agree on what those foods are and sometimes I go for the processed foods. I'm working on eating only when I'm truly hungry.

 

I eat less and move more. I've lost 20 pounds in 1 years and my muscle mass is increasing. I'm losing weight slowly and I feel like this time it will stay off because this is a realistic lifestyle that I can maintain. My point is that I have done many of the things that supposedly lead to weight gain and still lost weight.

Edited July 17, 2012 by jannylynn

[justamouse]

As a woman with PCOS and insulin resistance, but a normal BMI, I can tell you that it isn't a simple as junk food, willpower, etc.

 

My personal experience with IR has made me very sympathetic to the chronically obese population.

 

I was a vegetarian for about 8 years in high school and college. I have always consumed a "healthy" diet by the standard recommendations. I didn't grow up with white bread, soda, etc. I was active, I was outdoorsy, I played sports, and watched very little TV. I was not overweight.

 

I can tell you that I always wondered why if I ate a bagel (even a large one), or a bowl of breakfast cereal, I was ravenous (!!!) an hour later. My stomach would be growling. Sometimes I felt shaky, like I needed to eat immediately. During this period of time I was probably 100-110 lbs.

 

Only once I went through infertility, got a PCOS diagnosis, etc. did it all make sense. When I consume a lot of carbohydrate, including the so called healthy whole grains, I spiked my blood sugar, caused my insulin to rise so high that my blood sugar then crashed, leaving me hungry, sometimes shaky, sometimes full of brain fog. When you ride that rollercoaster, it is nearly impossible to feel sated. Now, as a woman who was not overweight, no one ever gave me grief about what I ate, or how much I ate. But I am now very sympathetic to what someone who is obese *feels.* I think many people do feel chronically hungry, function in a state of hyperinsulemia, and have trouble regulating the frequency and portions of food they eat as a result. I did, but *externally* that wasn't obvious. However, eating that way, I didn't cycle, couldn't ovulate, etc.

 

When I regulated my insulin, my hunger regulated itself. Brain fog was a thing of the past. I didn't feel shaky and out of it. I didn't need to snack between meals. It had nothing to do with willpower, but really was just getting my hormones, including insulin, back into alignment. I started cycling and ovulating (I also take metformin, which is an insulin sensitizing drug).

 

I know the hunger I felt was *real* and true. And it was hormonally mediated, driven by insulin. I can understand how someone needs to eat a lot to feel full, or how they may feel really and truly hungry and hour after they eat. That rollercoaster is so detrimental.

:grouphug:

 

I know. I can't understand a bowl of oatmeal filling anyone up. I would eat STEEL cut oats with NO sugar and be ravenous, just like you said, an hour later. I ate really well. I ate what you were supposed to. Whole grains, even as a child. Organic PB, whole foods. I never even went to a Dairy Queen until I was 8 (I remember it disctincly) and we were never allowed things like koolaide, sugar drinks, It was water and milk. I was always moderately active. I was never really overweight, and pregnant with my twins I topped out at 172 before going into labor.

 

I hated those sugar crashes. In second I was crashing, shaky, and it was like a fog descended on me. It would take me 24 hours to recover. I was constantly hungry, but I have a very strong will and for the most part, overrode my stomach. Carbs make you MORE hungry. It's scientifically proven. The more you eat, the more you want, it's a never ending sickening cycle.

 

I listened to the rules, and now I know better.

 

I agree with the OP's POV, as I'm a G. Taubes fan and an insulin resistant woman.

 

One other point I haven't seen raised yet is the concept of environmental estrogens and things like BPA. BPA has been linked to central adiposity and insulin resistance. In rats exposed to it, there are changes in hair color in the offspring, which indicates it may impact animals on an epigenetic level. Not all animals will experience offspring with the yellow hair color, but the percentage of rats that have yellow hair is higher with exposure in the mother.

http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/obesity-epigenetics-and-gene-regulation-927

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/body/jirtle-epigenetics.html

 

If you look into the whole "thrifty" gene, you can see changes in the 2nd generation.

 

Smoking, food supply, chemical exposures, etc. may all affect "generational epigenetic inheritance." http://genome.cshlp.org/content/20/12/1623.full That area of research is still in the fairly early stages.

 

Essentially, the environment and exposures experienced by your grandparents can cause changes that affect your health.

:iagree:

 

I love the science of epigenetics!

 

Right, but couldn't the TV be masking something else? Maybe it's just a timeline marker of the age in which it became a problem. Perhaps the continued decline of varieties of wheat during the timeframe contributes? Or the severe uptake in "tv dinners" which is now just common frozen food? I seem to recall that in The End of Overeating in America, the author said that the frozen food labels nutritional labels were not accurate by a long shot. So, if people are getting the nutritional equivalent of sawdust in their convenience food, and then filling up on carbs because they are what we're supposed to have the most of, it's compounding the issue. They're hungry because they are seeking nutrition. Then, they are not satisfied because they're eating the least nutient dense types of food to be "healthy."

 

:iagree:

 

Their bodies are fat, but they're starving nutritionally.

Edited July 17, 2012 by justamouse

[justamouse]

I've never seen a short basketball player. Maybe I'll start playing basketball so I grow...

 

:D

[Momof3littles]

I think it is important to remember that not being "fat" doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't or won't experience the health issues of metabolic syndrome, which is also related to insulin resistance, and it is quite common. Again, as a woman who is not overweight, many people might look at me and say there's no way I'm at risk of type 2 diabetes. But I am insulin resistant, with a family history of metabolic syndrome issues.

 

Those of us with insulin resistance issues make up a pretty substantial part of the population. That particular subset of people may find it nearly impossible to lose weight or keep it off without addressing the carb and insulin issue.

[justamouse]

It may not be possible in your location, but there are plenty where it is.

I live in a small town in the US. the elementary school is less than a mile away, the middle school one mile. We were the only family in the street to walk to school. Anybody could have done so, they chose to drive and set this as an example for their kids.

I agree, growing up in a nation where people walk shapes perspectives - but the main thing is attitude. In our town, walking and biking is perfectly possible - yet almost nobody chooses to do it. We live within 15 minutes biking distance form work. It is also a matter of priority. We intentionally chose our hosue so that walking and biking to work and school would be possible because it is important to us. We could have chosen to live ten miles outside of town where this would not be possible, but we prefer to have physical activity built into our lives. It is a question of choice.

 

I walk around town all the time. I walk to church, I walk to my farmer's market. It is NOTHING for my family to take a three mile hike on the weekend. Nothing. It didn't help at all. Not in the least. Actually, it made me MORE hungry, I crashed faster, and I had to go home faster because I had to eat before I crashed.

 

You know, I hope this never, ever happens to you. Really. Because your paradigm would shift so fast it would be like getting whapped in the head with a bat.

Edited July 17, 2012 by justamouse

[LibraryLover]

I think it is important to remember that not being "fat" doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't or won't experience the health issues of metabolic syndrome, which is also related to insulin resistance, and it is quite common. Again, as a woman who is not overweight, many people might look at me and say there's no way I'm at risk of type 2 diabetes. But I am insulin resistant, with a family history of metabolic syndrome issues.

 

Those of us with insulin resistance issues make up a pretty substantial part of the population. That particular subset of people may find it nearly impossible to lose weight or keep it off without addressing the carb and insulin issue.

 

 

We're changing, that's for sure. Why is insulin resistance so common?

[I.Dup.]

So let me get this straight. Those of us who think being overweight is a result of simply more calories taken in than burned are labeled as mentally ill (having serious "issues"), judgmental, prejudiced?

 

:glare:

[justamouse]

I think it is important to remember that not being "fat" doesn't necessarily mean someone isn't or won't experience the health issues of metabolic syndrome, which is also related to insulin resistance, and it is quite common. Again, as a woman who is not overweight, many people might look at me and say there's no way I'm at risk of type 2 diabetes. But I am insulin resistant, with a family history of metabolic syndrome issues.

 

Those of us with insulin resistance issues make up a pretty substantial part of the population. That particular subset of people may find it nearly impossible to lose weight or keep it off without addressing the carb and insulin issue.

 

This is me. I was on the cusp of full blown diabetes and fully within a healthy weight range.

[LibraryLover]

I walk around town all the time. I walk to church, I walk to my farmer's market. It didn't help at all. Not in the least. Actually, it made me MORE hungry, I crashed faster, and I had to go home faster because I had to eat before I crashed.

 

You know, I hope this never, ever happens to you. Really. Because your paradigm would shift so fast it would be like getting whapped in the head with a bat.

 

 

Sadly, even Germany is experiencing growing girth at nearly the clip of Americans.

 

www.thelocal.de/society/20100602-27589.html

 

http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,2044842,00.html

 

Much of Europe is, although the French still have quite an edge. I think the most important thing there is that they truly respect their food at it's most basic source: how it is made, where it comes from etc. They have a pride that some other wealthy countries seem to lack. My hope is that more Americans will care about this as well. I see so many small farms, so much pride here. American food can be amazing, when we pay attention, and are willing to pony up for more than Stouffer's etc. French farmers make an excellent living. That cannot be said for American farmers.

 

Food in the US --as it is in other wealthy nations-- is simply easier to get than it once was. The quality may be less, but there is more of it, and a lot of it is cheap.

Edited July 17, 2012 by LibraryLover

[justamouse]

So let me get this straight. Those of us who think being overweight is a result of simply more calories taken in than burned are labeled as mentally ill (having serious "issues"), judgmental, prejudiced?

 

:glare:

 

Did someone say that? This thread is very fast.

 

Well, it's scientifically false, and I used to think exactly the same until I had to change my lifestyle. But I don't think anyone's used the words you have?

 

Read the thread first.

[justLisa]

I walk around town all the time. I walk to church, I walk to my farmer's market. It didn't help at all. Not in the least. Actually, it made me MORE hungry, I crashed faster, and I had to go home faster because I had to eat before I crashed.

 

You know, I hope this never, ever happens to you. Really. Because your paradigm would shift so fast it would be like getting whapped in the head with a bat.

 

And everyone keeps mentioning living on MCds and gallons of coke. There are SO many people who eat healthy, whole food, exercise etc and still have problems.

 

Like you, I used to have horrible blood sugar issues until I discovered a high protein/fat diet and started working out lifting weights. No amount of walking/running was helping me. Actually, I am living proof that it is better, because I started going backwards over the past year. Eating mostly veg*n as in beans, whole grains, etc. I am going back again to the high protein/fats. I have this dang 5 pounds that will not come off. Granted I am not overweight, but I am used to being totally ripped, and that is not happening the way I am eating. My energy sucks, even though I am still working out, I definitely don't have that natural energy high at quite the level I used to.

 

ETA: I mean better for ME....it seems many do fine with other diets. But for those running in circles going no where, it is something to look in to

[justamouse]

Germany is experiencing growing girth at nearly the clip of Americans.

 

www.thelocal.de/society/20100602-27589.html

 

Much of Europe is.

 

Food is the US and other wealthy nations is simply easier to get than it once was. Almost everyone is getting fatter.

 

That's what that Swedish Dr said. He took up the cause because the Swedes are getting fat at an alarming rate. THe good Ole US is far ahead in the fat race (:D ) but everyone is catching up.

[Lang Syne Boardie]

This is me. I was on the cusp of full blown diabetes and fully within a healthy weight range.

 

That's really scary.

[Matryoshka]

We're changing, that's for sure. Why is insulin resistance so common?

 

Too much sugar can bring on insulin resistance. Now high fructose corn syrup is put in everything, even things that are savory and have no business having any added sugar. Why is it there? Because it's way over-subsidized and we have a huge corn surplus, and so it's cheap filler. That subsidy was an intentional change in US government policy decades ago - before that corn syrup wasn't in everything, and still isn't in everything elsewhere in the world.

 

They're moaning about the drought affecting corn production, and how it's going to increase food prices across the board because corn is in virtually all food. Well, it shouldn't be. Corn should be in corn on the cob, corn bread, corn chowder and maybe some kinds of chili and salsa. You know, recipes that call for corn. Not peanut butter, wheat bread and spaghetti sauce. :glare:

[Momof3littles]

We're changing, that's for sure. Why is insulin resistance so common?

Well, when people have more central body fat, they produce more insulin. But it is also a chicken and egg question, because there are plenty of thinner or normal weight people who are also insulin resistant. (eta: even when I'm at my thinnest, I have a slight apple shape. I'm 5"3" and about 119 lbs right now, but still tend to accumulate any weight in my tummy. That apple shape has been tied to IR as well).

 

I think there is an epigenetic issue for many people. I do think diet plays a part, but I think making wise choices and regulating one's diet is very hard when one is constantly riding a blood sugar rollercoaster. People who are insulin resistant may find themselves riding that rollercoaster while consuming the supposedly healthy whole grains...I know I do. I wonder about pesticide exposure, exposure to BPA, phthalates, and other hormone disruptors, soy, etc. not just in the person in question, but also the exposure of grandparents, parents, etc. to those things. The first generation may not see all of the effects of those exposures, but those exposures may affect subsequent generations via epigenetics.

 

I don't think there's a single cause.

 

I do think it is far, far more complex than eat less, move more, have some willpower, etc. In that regard, I feel obese people have really gotten shafted, and have not been given the toolkit they need to regulate their hunger.

 

Obviously, this just touches on a few issues...I think it is likely extraordinarily complex.

 

I do think insulin issues are a huge, huge part of it.

Edited July 17, 2012 by Momof3littles

[justamouse]

That's really scary.

 

It was. And at 40, I couldn't see myself on meds for the rest of my life. That's not the life I wanted to live, so Low Carb High Fat was my last ditch effort before I went on them.

 

Thankfully, it's working marvelously. I just wish I got to keep my boobs. :D

Edited July 17, 2012 by justamouse

[Momof3littles]

Too much sugar can bring on insulin resistance. Now high fructose corn syrup is put in everything, even things that are savory and have no business having any added sugar. Why is it there? Because it's way over-subsidized and we have a huge corn surplus, and so it's cheap filler. That subsidy was an intentional change in government policy decades ago - before that corn syrup wasn't in everything.

 

They're moaning about the drought affecting corn production, and how it's going to increase food prices across the board because corn is in virtually all food. Well, it shouldn't be. Corn should be in corn on the cob, corn bread, corn chowder and maybe some kinds of chili and salsa. You know, recipes that call for corn. Not peanut butter, wheat bread and spaghetti sauce. :glare:

If you look at people like me though, it is really interesting. I have PCOS and insulin resistance, even though I'm not overweight and always ate quite healthily by the standard definition. My 8 yr stint as a vegetarian probably didn't help my insulin resistance. If you look at my parents, neither has been tested for IR, but both have markers of metabolic syndrome, which is closely tied to IR. (hypertension, low HDL, elevated triglycerides, etc.). WHen they addressed insulin, their issues *also* improved, as did my PCOS. I think corn is an oversimplification. We have something inherited that causes us to be insulin resistant. Where that originates from...who knows. But I can tell you I have PCOS and was diagnosed when I weighed 114 lbs at age 24. Had it not been for infertility, no one would have ever even considered that maybe I was IR. My OB/GYN at the time suggested I'd ovulate if I *gained* weight. It wasn't on anyone's radar at all until the infertility. My parents have had docs trying to treat their individual symptoms through the years, but never linked it back to metabolic syndrome and or IR.

[Stacy in NJ]

So let me get this straight. Those of us who think being overweight is a result of simply more calories taken in than burned are labeled as mentally ill (having serious "issues"), judgmental, prejudiced?

 

:glare:

 

:D

[justamouse]

Well, when people have more central body fat, they produce more insulin. But it is also a chicken and egg question, because there are plenty of thinner or normal weight people who are also insulin resistant.

 

I think there is an epigenetic issue for many people. I do think diet plays a part, but I think making wise choices and regulating one's diet is very hard when one is constantly riding a blood sugar rollercoaster. People who are insulin resistant may find themselves riding that rollercoaster while consuming the supposedly healthy whole grains...I know I do. I wonder about pesticide exposure, exposure to BPA, phthalates, and other hormone disruptors, soy, etc. not just in the person in question, but also the exposure of grandparents, parents, etc. to those things. The first generation may not see all of the effects of those exposures, but those exposures may affect subsequent generations via epigenetics.

 

I don't think there's a single cause.

 

I do think it is far, far more complex than eat less, move more, have some willpower, etc. In that regard, I feel obese people have really gotten shafted, and have not been given the toolkit they need to regulate their hunger.

 

Obviously, this just touches on a few issues...I think it is likely extraordinarily complex.

 

I do think insulin issues are a huge, huge part of it.

 

I could kiss you. I'd say stuff like this and people would NOT get it.

 

If you look at people like me though, it is really interesting. I have PCOS and insulin resistance, even though I'm not overweight and always ate quite healthily by the standard definition. My 8 yr stint as a vegetarian probably didn't help my insulin resistance. If you look at my parents, neither has been tested for IR, but both have markers of metabolic syndrome, which is closely tied to IR. (hypertension, low HDL, elevated triglycerides, etc.). WHen they addressed insulin, their issues *also* improved, as did my PCOS. I think corn is an oversimplification. We have something inherited that causes us to be insulin resistant. Where that originates from...who knows. But I can tell you I have PCOS and was diagnosed when I weighed 114 lbs at age 24. Had it not been for infertility, no one would have ever even considered that maybe I was IR. My OB/GYN at the time suggested I'd ovulate if I *gained* weight. It wasn't on anyone's radar at all until the infertility. My parents have had docs trying to treat their individual symptoms through the years, but never linked it back to metabolic syndrome and or IR.

 

My grandparents had markers. My Papa died of a heart attack -having had 8 strokes, other heart attacks and a pacemaker-and never ONCE was overweight. That man was stick thin till the day he died.

 

Nana wasn't overweight either, but had high BP, high cholesterol, and I remember when they told her to stop eating butter and eat margarine instead. :glare:

 

My mom has markers, I totally do. And we're not overweight.

[Stacy in NJ]

I've never seen a short basketball player. Maybe I'll start playing basketball so I grow...

 

Correlation or causation, anyone?