Dad kills guy molesting his 4 yr old.

[ThreeBlessings]

Maybe. Either way there is likely to be a lot of trauma to deal with for both the girl and her father. That I think should be respected with an air of solemnity and compassion, and not one of celebration.

 

Bill

 

Talk about distorting positions. I don't think anyone here was breaking out the champagne.

 

It is important to stand up and voice a strong opinion in matters like this. I wouldn't take someone saying "Way to go!" as celebration of anything that took place, rather as a abrupt call of support and voicing they have no condemnation of the action taken by the father to protect his daughter.

[ravinlunachick]

Talk about distorting positions. I don't think anyone here was breaking out the champagne.

 

It is important to stand up and voice a strong opinion in matters like this. I wouldn't take someone saying "Way to go!" as celebration of anything that took place, rather as a abrupt call of support and voicing they have no condemnation of the action taken by the father to protect his daughter.

 

:iagree:

 

If I had been standing there at that barn, I wouldn't have been all smiles and clapping the dad on the back, going, "Wooo-hoo!!! Got you one, huh?"

 

I'd call that being celebratory over a death. Discussing it on the internet afterwards and saying I think he did the right thing is completely different than that.

[Spy Car]

Talk about distorting positions. I don't think anyone here was breaking out the champagne.

 

Re-read the thread.

 

It is important to stand up and voice a strong opinion in matters like this. I wouldn't take someone saying "Way to go!" as celebration of anything that took place, rather as a abrupt call of support and voicing they have no condemnation of the action taken by the father to protect his daughter.

 

There is a huge gulf between understanding and even supporting the actions of a father protecting his child and some of the reactions expressed in this thread. As I said, I can imagine I might have acted exactly the same way this father did. I'm not condeming him, far from it. I just know that if I were n his position the last thing I'd want is someone in my face cheering "way to go!"

 

Taking life is not a cause for celebration. It is a time for solemnity.

 

Bill

[Dealea86]

Talk about distorting positions. I don't think anyone here was breaking out the champagne.

 

I think most of us are in agreement that the father was justified in using force to protect his daughter, and that we probably would have done the same in his shoes. And most have also said they aren't rejoicing in the death of the "victim"... but some of the comments have been too close to breaking out champagne for my comfort.

 

I don't think I could never kill someone intentionally. I do think I would use force to protect my children, but if that turned into murder it would not be a conscious decision. And I would be so messed up afterwards that I would need serious therapy.

 

I do think children are better off knowing their parents will protect them. But I think the daughter would have been much better off had the father merely incapacitated the "victim" rather than killing him.

 

It's such a sad situation all-around. :(

[oasis]

I do think children are better off knowing their parents will protect them. But I think the daughter would have been much better off had the father merely incapacitated the "victim" rather than killing him.

 

It's such a sad situation all-around. :(

 

How would a 4-year-old be able to tell the difference between her attacker being knocked out or killed? :confused:

[Dealea86]

How would a 4-year-old be able to tell the difference between her attacker being knocked out or killed? :confused:

 

I meant more restraining the man. Not knocking him out. Though even in the case of knocking him out vs killing him, the girl would eventually know the difference. "Daddy killed someone" is a very powerful thing to have to live with - even more so if her father gets prosecuted for it.

[creekland]

But I think the daughter would have been much better off had the father merely incapacitated the "victim" rather than killing him.

 

 

 

I suspect the daughter will sleep better at night knowing that monster can't ever come back and get her. If he were merely in prison, even a youngster's brain would wonder if he could get out - esp as that youngster grew up and that monster approached probation.

[ThreeBlessings]

Re-read the thread.

 

 

 

There is a huge gulf between understanding and even supporting the actions of a father protecting his child and some of the reactions expressed in this thread. As I said, I can imagine I might have acted exactly the same way this father did. I'm not condeming him, far from it. I just know that if I were n his position the last thing I'd want is someone in my face cheering "way to go!"

 

Taking life is not a cause for celebration. It is a time for solemnity.

 

Bill

 

I appreciate the further clarification you've given because I honestly must have misunderstood your intent in other posts. If you are a man who would do what was needed to protect his children you are worthy of respect for it.

 

For a lot of people, in the immediacy of hearing of something like this, the stronger emotions of shock, hurt, anger, and sadness on behalf of the victims will outweigh any solemnity at the death of the perpetrator. It is soul wrenching.

 

As for the father who was put in this unfortunate position, nobody here is 'in his face' and I highly doubt he will go searching the internet for personal responses to his actions. He will have enough to deal with in the aftermath.

Edited June 11, 2012 by ThreeBlessings

[pdalley]

I meant more restraining the man. Not knocking him out. Though even in the case of knocking him out vs killing him, the girl would eventually know the difference. "Daddy killed someone" is a very powerful thing to have to live with - even more so if her father gets prosecuted for it.

 

Maybe he did try to pull him off and the guy wouldn't move. Maybe he had no choice but to hit him and the head was the only place he could reach. Or maybe he was so terrified for his child and roused by the parental protective instinct he just reacted.

 

I don't think a child would have a problem - long term - knowing Daddy accidentally killed someone who was hurting me.

 

It doesn't sound like her father will be prosecuted and he shouldn't - IMO.

[Spy Car]

I appreciate the further clarification you've given because I honestly must have misunderstood your intent in other posts. If you are a man who would do what was needed to protect his children you are worthy of respect for it.

 

I would not only go what I needed to do to protect my family, but I have actively intervened to prevent/stop the assault or rape of a woman one more than one occasion. This is not a hypothetical with me.

 

I just believe we should not lose the understanding that the taking of human life is no small thing.

 

For a lot of people, in the immediacy of hearing of something like this, the stronger emotions of shock, hurt, anger, and sadness on behalf of the victims will outweigh any solemnity at the death of the perpetrator. It is soul wrenching.

 

You miss understand me. The sense of solemnity is not for the death of the perpetrator, it is for the father who was put in the position where he needed to kill a human being to save his child from a horrible crime.

 

As for the father who was put in this unfortunate position, nobody here is 'in his face' and I highly doubt he will go searching the internet for personal responses to his actions. He will have enough to deal with in the aftermath.

 

I'm certain the man will have a wide mix of emotions. He will need support and understanding.

 

Bill

[FaithManor]

 

 

I'm certain the man will have a wide mix of emotions. He will need support and understanding.

 

Bill

 

 

Absolutely this! He may even have PTSD over it because not only will he be parenting a child who needs help because of what happened to her and that alone is mentally and emotionally draining, the anguish, the everything, but then there is the fact that he had to do that. He needs a LOT of support.

 

Faith

[ssavings]

 

You miss understand me. The sense of solemnity is not for the death of the perpetrator, it is for the father who was put in the position where he needed to kill a human being to save his child from a horrible crime.

 

 

 

I'm certain the man will have a wide mix of emotions. He will need support and understanding.

 

Perfectly worded. :iagree:

[creekland]

I'm certain the man will have a wide mix of emotions. He will need support and understanding.

 

Bill

 

With regards to the men in my life - and myself - my emotions would center on how I failed to protect my child from this happening to start with and, if anything, my anger toward the perp and others of his ilk would continue to seethe. I'd feel no remorse for his death in the same manner that I feel no remorse when foxes who have been taking our chickens are killed - except my anger with him (the man) would be far, far greater.

 

IF I needed counseling regarding the death, it would be to not go out hunting others of his ilk (not his relatives, but others who do these sorts of things to children).

 

Whether my reaction and that of the men I know closely matches him or whether he more matches those who care that this guy died is anyone's guess. There are different types of people in this world...

 

If I were the daughter, I'd grow up with pride for my papa and what he did for me. I might not feel it as a 4 year old, but that's my gut instinct right now. Who knows for sure what she will feel... but I can't imagine she'd prefer the guy to be alive. No one I know IRL who has been molested as a child (akin to this - not date rape, etc) has been glad their perp is alive. A few I know have rejoiced when their perp died (car accident, drug overdose). Granted, my experiences don't speak for all - and it's all hearsay - but I believe those who have shared with me.

[ThreeBlessings]

 

 

You miss understand me. The sense of solemnity is not for the death of the perpetrator, it is for the father who was put in the position where he needed to kill a human being to save his child from a horrible crime.

 

 

 

Bill

 

Yes I did. Thank you again for clarifying, as I've been wondering where one would wrangle up an air of solemnity in a first reaction to that man's death and how one could expect that from his fellows.

Edited June 11, 2012 by ThreeBlessings

[Spy Car]

Yes I did. Thank you again for clarifying, as I've been wondering where one would wrangle up an air of solemnity in a first reaction to that man's death and how one could expect that from his fellows.

 

I doubt many good-hearted people desire to have another person's death on their hands. Is it ever necessary due to war or circumstances like these? Sure. Are the consequences of not acting (even killing) sometimes far worse than not acting? Sure.

 

It is still an act of consequence for one person to kill another. Even when it is justified, or necessary. It is no small thing.

 

Bill

[Dealea86]

I doubt many good-hearted people desire to have another person's death on their hands. Is it ever necessary due to war or circumstances like these? Sure. Are the consequences of not acting (even killing) sometimes far worse than not acting? Sure.

 

It is still an act of consequence for one person to kill another. Even when it is justified, or necessary. It is no small thing.

 

Bill

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[macpuffins]

Yes it is traumatic that the little girl witnessed her daddy kill that guy but honestly I don't think it will do her long term harm. Not the way the molestation could/would, especially if her dady didn't do much of anything.

:iagree:

I am not cheering the guy is dead, but I am cheering that this father did what he had to do to protect his little girl. I am cheering that no other child can be harmed by this perv. I am cheering that this little girl may actually come out stronger having seen her father respond in that way. A child seeing a parent respond so strongly to protect them works better in healing from trauma than any number of hours in therapy ime.

:iagree:

These two statements pretty much call my feelings on the matter. As a child who was abused, and as someone who was also abused as a teen, if I had seen my father put a hurtin' on the perps, it would have gone a LONG LONG way to the healing, way more so than any trauma I might have experienced from seeing lay on the hurtin'.

 

Even finding out much later, after the fact, that my father was WILLING to ask if someone "needed killing" helped me heal. It meant that had it been within his power to stop it, he would have, in a heartbeat. A girl's relationship with her father is special, he is her champion and hero in a way that mom isn't (but moms ARE when need be).

 

Hubby & I discussed this, and we came to the conclusion that the father shouldn't be punished, he honestly did not seem to have wanted to kill the perp. BUT, he did save the state much $$ in trying and incarcerating the perp, as well as prevent future assaults (someone previously mentioned it was likely the perp had done this before and I concur - since he was willing to do it w/ others close by).

We also think that if by some miscarriage of justice the father is indicted by the grand jury, all a trial will need are a few parents on the jury (jury of peers = parents & parents of 4yo girls) and have the defence ask 1 question of the jury: "can you honestly say that if you were in the defendant's position, you'd not have done the same?" It would have to be some cold, hard-hearted, calloused individual who would answer that they'd not have laid down a hurtin'!

[KidsHappen]

I would do whatever was within my capability to protect any child from such a thing and I really don't think that I would feel bad about doing so.

[Kissy]

I doubt many good-hearted people desire to have another person's death on their hands. Is it ever necessary due to war or circumstances like these? Sure. Are the consequences of not acting (even killing) sometimes far worse than not acting? Sure.

 

It is still an act of consequence for one person to kill another. Even when it is justified, or necessary. It is no small thing.

 

Bill

 

I agree with you on this..I feel really bad for the dad and how he must feel. I pray that he knows he did the best he could and can move past everything and that his daughter can too. I think this is a really sad situation even while I am glad that her dad could hear her and go to her and stop it even glad it can't happen by him again. I still feel bad for the perp's family too. It isn't their fault he was that way.

[macpuffins]

I don't claim to know what the answer is, Bill. I *do* know that I'm sick to death of those who have no hesitation stripping over other's rights, up to and including killing someone for their own desire, screaming about THEIR rights.

 

I'm really sick of ppl like Clifford Olsen, (mercifully deceased now) screaming about his rights, demanding far more respect for himself than he ever considered showing to another human being.

 

There's something just wrong w/that. That someone can commit horrfying acts on another person, but demand, and receive, far better treatment.

 

:iagree:

 

I can not express just how MUCH I agree w/ this. We don't have an emoticon for that!

[Rosie_0801]

I suspect the daughter will sleep better at night knowing that monster can't ever come back and get her. If he were merely in prison, even a youngster's brain would wonder if he could get out - esp as that youngster grew up and that monster approached probation.

 

Or perhaps she will sleep in fear that Daddy will kill her if she's naughty.

 

Rosie

[macpuffins]

I suspect the daughter will sleep better at night knowing that monster can't ever come back and get her. If he were merely in prison, even a youngster's brain would wonder if he could get out - esp as that youngster grew up and that monster approached probation.

 

:iagree:

I can not agree more w/ this one either! wow... yeah....

I *still* look over my shoulder constantly because of what has happened to me, I still have nightmares, etc. Even my therapist has stated that I'll likely have them for the rest of my life. At least I'm not getting flashbacks anymore.

 

It makes me physically ill when I Google the individuals who have harmed me, and find out they are living unscathed lives b/c I did not have the strength or support to report them. I certainly was not in any mental state to have dealt w/ the fallout at the time had I gone forward and reported. I was suicidal after the incidents, and going through what I knew the legal system would do to me would have just amplified the risk.

[Dory]

:iagree:

I can not agree more w/ this one either! wow... yeah....

I *still* look over my shoulder constantly because of what has happened to me, I still have nightmares, etc. Even my therapist has stated that I'll likely have them for the rest of my life. At least I'm not getting flashbacks anymore.

 

It makes me physically ill when I Google the individuals who have harmed me, and find out they are living unscathed lives b/c I did not have the strength or support to report them. I certainly was not in any mental state to have dealt w/ the fallout at the time had I gone forward and reported. I was suicidal after the incidents, and going through what I knew the legal system would do to me would have just amplified the risk.

 

It's been 10 years for me since I left it all and I am lucky if I get 5hrs. of sleep at one time from nightmares. I didn't have the guts to report or deal with it either. The system doesn't deal with them anyway. This is one guy that will never hurt anyone else, and this little girl will know that what he did to her was very wrong.

[The Girls' Mom]

I think that I would have done the same thing in a heart beat, and without pausing to think twice about it. I also think that when I stood before God on Judgement day, He wouldn't condemn me for it either. There is a difference between murder and killing to protect your family.

 

I'm praying that this entire family will be able to move on from this. Any trauma from this isn't the father's fault. It is 100% the molestor's fault.

[awisha.]

Doesn't sound like he meant to kill him - just make him stop what he was doing by hitting him in the head. The molester - caught in the act -is dead. I'm supposed to feel bad for a guy caught in the act of hurting a four year old in one of the worst ways known to man got hit in the head to make him stop and he died? Really?

 

There is not one single solitary study that I am aware of that shows us that child molesters can be fixed. None.

 

Let's liken this to the alleged Penn State Shower incident. You have two choices - stand by and do nothing or save the child being assaulted and risk something happening to the person hurting the child. We know what happened with the alleged Penn State thing - we have victims possibly in the double digits. So not stopping someone in the act certainly does nothing to help the current or potential future victims. We also know that with child molesters there are always other victims. We know they can't be fixed. It's like rabies. You can't cure it.

 

I would call it a no brainer. I save the child. Period. It would not mess me up to save a child. If the guy died it was his own fault. If he hadn't been hurting a child then he wouldn't have gotten smacked in the head. When does the responsibility get put back on the perp? You commit a crime you are risking either losing your liberty or your life depending on what you are doing.

 

I don't lose sleep over child molesters dying. Not one iota. So if that makes me a dreg of society or someone a slave to my baser instincts to some people I could care less about that person's opinion of me. Not my problem and I'm not going to lose one iota of sleep over that either.

 

:iagree:

[Word Nerd]

Or perhaps she will sleep in fear that Daddy will kill her if she's naughty.

 

Rosie

 

That seems like quite a stretch.

[creekland]

Or perhaps she will sleep in fear that Daddy will kill her if she's naughty.

 

Rosie

 

Seriously? Have you ever heard from anyone who has gone through abuse at a young age or am I alone in that? I know by working at camps and at school I might have more contact than the average person, but in all the experiences I've had I've NEVER ONCE had someone tell me they lived in fear of a parent who tried to protect them. They've hated parents who didn't protect them. They've lived in fear and/or disgust of the perp(s). I've even heard some tell of fear from parents (usually dads) who beat their moms, but I've never once had anyone make the jump from protection to fear.

 

Would you fear the protector who stopped you from being abused (even now, as an adult)? She might fear violence in general had the protector been a stranger (esp with the stressful situation), but this was her daddy... if there wasn't fear to begin with, it certainly isn't likely to be there now because of what he did. Even young kids know the difference between protection and meaningless violence.

[Rosie_0801]

Seriously? Have you ever heard from anyone who has gone through abuse at a young age or am I alone in that? I know by working at camps and at school I might have more contact than the average person, but in all the experiences I've had I've NEVER ONCE had someone tell me they lived in fear of a parent who tried to protect them.

 

Good. I'm so glad someone with experience in this area has been able to tell me that my thought is so far out of the realm of realistic possibility that I needn't think it again. I don't have experience with sexual abuse, only with a poor quality father. In case anyone else feels the need to have a go at me, do remember I was only *wondering* not claiming expertise.

 

Rosie

[PiCO]

I have not yet seen confirmation that the man was, in fact, molesting the child. Everything I've read says "allegedly."

 

People heard the girls screaming behind the barn, but what was she screaming? We don't know.

 

I would never defend a child molester, but I would hope the deceased is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

[Impish]

I have not yet seen confirmation that the man was, in fact, molesting the child. Everything I've read says "allegedly."

 

People heard the girls screaming behind the barn, but what was she screaming? We don't know.

 

I would never defend a child molester, but I would hope the deceased is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

My experience of the legal system is that EVERY criminal act is 'alleged', no matter if there's video tape and a stadium full of witnesses, until conviction happens in court.

[Guest submarines]

I have not yet seen confirmation that the man was, in fact, molesting the child. Everything I've read says "allegedly."

 

People heard the girls screaming behind the barn, but what was she screaming? We don't know.

 

I would never defend a child molester, but I would hope the deceased is presumed innocent until proven guilty.

 

:iagree:

[Whereneverever]

My experience of the legal system is that EVERY criminal act is 'alleged', no matter if there's video tape and a stadium full of witnesses, until conviction happens in court.

 

:iagree: And it's rather hard to put a deceased person on trial. Didn't the article say the little girl was taken to a hospital?

[stansclan89]

My experience of the legal system is that EVERY criminal act is 'alleged', no matter if there's video tape and a stadium full of witnesses, until conviction happens in court.

 

:iagree: It is my understanding that they have to say alleged until there is a conviction and there won't be, since he has died.

[SpecialClassical]

I have not read every post, but may I just say that the articles did not mention whether the dad intended to kill him. It only takes one well placed blow to the head to kill someone and I doubt he was thinking about where he was hitting the guy. The article said he was hitting him to get him off his daughter. And yes, he would be completely unglued and hit him with all he was worth because he HAD to get that guy away from his child. It doesn't mean he intended to murder him. And in that moment if he did intend to kill him in his rage, as so many have pointed out I would totally understand.

[Guest submarines]

:iagree: And it's rather hard to put a deceased person on trial. Didn't the article say the little girl was taken to a hospital?

 

It would be only prudent to wait for more information. For now we only have the father's words. We don't know what happened at all. It is one thing if the little girl was physically hurt vs. the perv exposing himself to her, for example.

 

I read only the original article linked to here, but do we know the relationship of the perv to the little girl / the father? Was he known to them? Does he have a record?

 

How is it even possible to make any conclusions on the basis of the linked article? :confused: How is that not utter sensationalism?

[mrbmom77]

It's been 10 years for me since I left it all and I am lucky if I get 5hrs. of sleep at one time from nightmares. I didn't have the guts to report or deal with it either. The system doesn't deal with them anyway. This is one guy that will never hurt anyone else, and this little girl will know that what he did to her was very wrong.

 

:grouphug: So sorry. And I understand. I was one of the children who wasn't protected. I haven't had a good night's sleep (except the year I was on Ambien) in 25 years. Maybe when he dies I will.

 

Give the man a medal and send him home to help his baby cope. If that makes me "the dregs of society" or "barbarian", well, I just don't give a ****.

 

And if anyone touches one of mine, they better call the cops for protective custody. I would do my best to kill them.

[Unicorn.]

Bethany, the father has said it wasn't his intent, and he is remorseful. I think he just reacted as most of us would have- strike first to save the child kind of thing- and it resulted in death.

[Whereneverever]

It would be only prudent to wait for more information. For now we only have the father's words. We don't know what happened at all. It is one thing if the little girl was physically hurt vs. the perv exposing himself to her, for example.

 

I read only the original article linked to here, but do we know the relationship of the perv to the little girl / the father? Was he known to them? Does he have a record?

 

How is it even possible to make any conclusions on the basis of the linked article? :confused: How is that not utter sensationalism?

 

Page 2 had this news story linked. http://blog.chron.com/newswatch/2012/06/dad-beats-daughters-alleged-molester-to-death/

 

I'm assuming the authorities will clarify the situation. I haven't mentioned a position on any of this, by the way, just that the alleged part is because he was not convicted. You can't convict a dead man. I don't know how that means I'm jumping to any conclusions? :confused:

[anoncalhan]

Wow! I think he got what he deserved.

[Juniper]

Well, I did not realize this was so close to me. Watched the news report on the local news. The little girl was injured. She was dragged to the back of the property, another child ran and alerted the adults including her grandfather and 23 yr old father. Her father caught up and and a fight ensued where the perpetrator was killed. The little girl was taken to a Victoria, Tx. hospital.:crying:

 

The family was visiting a ranch (grandfathers?) the man came with a separate group of people to the ranch. He may have been from Mexico.

[Kirch]

Well, I did not realize this was so close to me. Watched the news report on the local news. The little girl was injured. She was dragged to the back of the property, another child ran and alerted the adults including her grandfather and 23 yr old father. Her father caught up and and a fight ensued where the perpetrator was killed. The little girl was taken to a Victoria, Tx. hospital.:crying:

 

The family was visiting a ranch (grandfathers?) the man came with a separate group of people to the ranch. He may have been from Mexico.

 

Thank God for the child who told.:crying:

[Mrs Mungo]

You are completely distorting my position Mrs Mungo. I ordinarily think more highly of you, but it is not the first time you've done this. I'd expect it from others but you are better than this.

 

Bill

 

And the alternative is we all decent into the dregs of humanity? Is that really the answer???

 

Bill

 

And I think those with blood-lust have committed a killing in their heart.

 

I understand anger and animal-passions, but we have morality to (hopefully) rise above our baser natures.

 

Bill

 

That is not what I said.

 

I said:

 

I'm a man who knows I have it in me to act the same way this father did in this situation. It is understandable, and maybe justifiable, but killing another human being (in front of ones child no less) is hardly an act that is cause for celebration and cheering. This is a tragedy that should be treated with sobriety and a sense of compassion and understanding and not with applause.

 

I know that killing is sometimes necessary. I don't believe that makes it an occasion for whooping it up. Please don't create straw-men positions and attribute them to me, as that is a low road.

 

Bill

 

Your initial posts sounded more condemning of the killing than of those who were (in your words) "whooping it up." Clearly, *many* people read it that way, not just me. When there has been a miscommunication, I usually say, "sorry, I must not have communicated that well, let me try again" instead of saying "how dare you insinuate the thing that I just implied, whether or not I meant to!"

[Spy Car]

Your initial posts sounded more condemning of the killing than of those who were (in your words) "whooping it up." Clearly, *many* people read it that way, not just me. When there has been a miscommunication, I usually say, "sorry, I must not have communicated that well, let me try again" instead of saying "how dare you insinuate the thing that I just implied, whether or not I meant to!"

 

When people make up or ascribe things to me that are insulting, especially when I presume those people have sort of gotten to know me over the years, I'm not inclined to apologize for being smeared.

 

I never condemned the father. Never. Happened.

 

Bill

[LucyStoner]

I understand the motivation and the heat of the moment reaction. He killed a man who was dragging his daughter away. It doesn't sound like he was literally caught in the act of rape. I don't think that it is a crime to react under the circumstances and that reaction might definitely result in death.

 

That said, I can't celebrate pretty much ANY death. I am glad the child is safe but I agree with Spycar. Having to kill someone is a grave and serious matter. I think most of us might react the same way but I doubt many, including this father would not have regret or stress at taking this man's life.

 

And before anyone says I would not feel this way if I had been assaulted I will just state plainly that I am a child rape survivor. The rapes that I experienced left me severely scarred in ways that I still have to factor into my life at times, over 20 years later. This was not easy to deal with or (mostly) move past, but one thing I learned along the way is that it is only in forgiveness that I could set myself free. I don't like the man who did this. I feel no family ties (he was my biological maternal grandfather) or affection. I shed no tears when his pathetic life came to a (natural) end. But I do forgive him (from a distance- no one in my immediate family ever had contact with him or anyone in contact with him ever again) and I am very glad my parents did not kill him. I would not want my parents to live with that action AND and I would not have been better off had they been sent to prison over it. There is no excuse for his behavior but I see his actions as a symptom of a culture wide disease of sexual violence and of a generational cycle of familial abuse, not the whole problem by themselves. I am far better off focusing on the ways that my mother broke the cycle by not physically or emotionally abusing me and by getting me away from this man at the first inkling there was a need to, even before I could verbalize what had happened. I am far better off focusing on how I continue breaking that cycle by raising my boys free from all abuse and without any model that sexualizes violence or injects violence and non-consent into sexuality. Vengeance is not a value that helps me or my family at all.

Edited June 12, 2012 by kijipt

[Spy Car]

I understand the motivation and the heat of the moment reaction. He killed a man who was dragging his daughter away. It doesn't sound like he was literally caught in the act of rape. I don't think that it is a crime to react under the circumstances and that reaction might definitely result in death.

 

That said, I can't celebrate pretty much ANY death. I am glad the child is safe but I agree with Spycar. Having to kill someone is a grave and serious matter. I think most of us might react the same way but I doubt many, including this father would not have regret or stress at taking this man's life.

 

And before anyone says I would not feel this way if I had been assaulted I will just state plainly that I am a child rape survivor. The rapes that I experienced left me severely scarred in ways that I still have to factor into my life at times, over 20 years later. This was not easy to deal with or (mostly) move past, but one thing I learned along the way is that it is only in forgiveness that I could set myself free. I don't like the man who did this. I feel no family ties (he was my biological maternal grandfather) or affection. I shed no tears when his pathetic life came to a (natural) end. But I do forgive him (from a distance- no one in my immediate family ever had contact with him or anyone in contact with him ever again) and I am very glad my parents did not kill him. I would not want my parents to live with that action AND and I would not have been better off had they been sent to prison over it. There is no excuse for his behavior but I see his actions as a symptom of a culture wide disease of sexual violence and of a generational cycle of familial abuse, not the whole problem by themselves. I am far better off focusing on the ways that my mother broke the cycle by not physically or emotionally abusing me and by getting me away from this man. I am far better off focusing on how I continue breaking that cycle by raising my boys free from all abuse and without any model that sexualizes violence or injects violence into sexuality. Vengeance is not a value that helps me or my family at all.

 

:grouphug:

 

Bill

[ChocolateReignRemix]

When people make up or ascribe things to me that are insulting, especially when I presume those people have sort of gotten to know me over the years, I'm not inclined to apologize for being smeared.

 

I never condemned the father. Never. Happened.

 

Bill

 

I got where you were coming from, but I can see how some who are reacting more emotionally could easily misread what you said.

 

FWIW, I lean towards your line of thinking. What this father was forced to do to defend his child was horrible, and is something that any decent person will struggle with for some time.

[Ibbygirl]

Or perhaps she will sleep in fear that Daddy will kill her if she's naughty.

 

Rosie

 

Good. I'm so glad someone with experience in this area has been able to tell me that my thought is so far out of the realm of realistic possibility that I needn't think it again. I don't have experience with sexual abuse, only with a poor quality father. In case anyone else feels the need to have a go at me, do remember I was only *wondering* not claiming expertise.

 

Rosie

 

I think what Rosie was trying to say is that she was wondering (aloud) if a child in that kind of circumstance would ever equate in their young mind that being bad could bring that kind of reaction from daddy upon themselves.

 

ie. bad man does something bad, daddy beats him and kills him. What happens if I do something bad?

 

It's a legitimate question to be asked I think depending upon how the dad behaves when he does lose his temper at home. If he is a person who yells and gets a little scary then I think Rosie may have a point. Of course none of us can really answer it since we don't know the dad, but I think it's allowed to be asked and wondered about (aloud) in an open forum that is discussing the aspects of this case. :)

[Joanne]

The whole event is traumatic for the child. She'll need professional support for a while, and perhaps intermittently ongoing. Both events - the assault and the killing of the assaulter are so far from normal that she'll need age-appropriate intervention to process this.

 

It is a no-brainer to me that I would defend - to death if necessary - my children if I were to intervene on any kind of physical assault in the moment.

 

It's also clear to me that after the fact, not in the moment physical interaction is not protection, lawful, or appropriate.

 

I'm not sorry that the man is dead. I'm not "glad" that Dad killed him. I'm *sorry* that there is such evil and sickness in the world that the event happened at all.

 

(And I'm sorry that the little girl is not likely to have been his first victim.)

[Laurie4b]

I think people who are surprised by the criminal act of someone else towards them or their family members should not be condemned for "overreacting." There is no indication that the father intended to kill the perp--but even if he had intentionally done so in reaction, it was totally understandable in the heat of the moment. I read it's going to a grand jury. I think that's too far--unless there are facts we're unaware of right now.

 

There was a case some years ago when a father was home alone with his infant and some teenaged boys tried a home invasion. The father was armed and shot one of them in the back as he was fleeing. The father was acquitted but had to go through a whole trial. The prosecution argued that since he shot the teen in the back, it was unjustified because the man and his baby were no longer in danger. The jury sided with the father. If I'm remembering correctly, the law technically didn't allow them to make that judgment given the facts, but they did anyway.

 

I believe that if someone is committing a criminal act, especially when a parent has any reason to fear for their child, that someone ought to expect that he might die for it. A parent is not a cop with extensive training; in this case, it's a dad minding his own business until his child is threatened and his adrenaline begins pumping and he goes into "survival mode." If he "overreacts," that is part of what the criminal bargained for when he decided to do the crime.

 

I don't think victims who are minding their own business should have to face the possibility of legal charges--especially if protection of a child is at stake.

[Debbie in OR]

I remember when my ds had just barely started walking and we were at a playground. A girl, maybe a year older than ds, kept pushing ds down...Every time he would struggle to get up, as soon as he was up, she would push him down again. I waited to see if this girl's mom would intervene but realized her mom was busy talking to another woman and not paying any attention at all to this. Finally, little girl did it again and the mama bear in me took over...I was suddenly in the girl's face, giving her a stern lecture on how to treat other kids. Then I told her to go find her mom...and I was not pleasant. Afterwards, it was like some unseen force had taken over...I can't actually remember moving from where I was sitting to where they were...it felt surreal.

 

When I was relaying the story to dh that night, I told him that I wonder what I would do if someone really was hurting ds because the reaction I had over this minor, silly incident made me realize I would probably lose all rational control if it were something serious.

 

 

This dad did exactly what he should have. And he witnessed it. It's not like his dd or a friend came to him after the fact and relayed the story to him and he went out and hunted this guy down based on hearsay. He SAW this going on....completely justified.

 

And another thought: either way, she's going to have to process this. Better for her to have to work through the trauma of watching her dad accidentally kill someone in her defense than the trauma of being molested...

Edited June 13, 2012 by Debbie in OR