Jump to content

Menu

What is your moral compass?


Recommended Posts

This is a bit of a take off from my earlier thread about my upbringing.

So What is your moral compass. Are you choices and decisions based on

how you were raised.....

what you gut tells you is right....

what you have been taught at church....

what you have learned from religious books.....

what you see others doing...

combination or something else.

Mainly I go by the golden rule...do unto others etc...

I also go on gut feeling too.

For me watching other families has been very helpful at times.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My constant goal, intent, and hope is to base my decisions on Biblical principles as laid out in Scripture. I fall short daily, hourly even. But that's what I'm aiming for. I'm sure that some of my decisions are influenced by my upbringing, but again my goal is to examine even those to test them against the Scriptures. I keep the ones that are Biblical and discard the rest.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My constant goal, intent, and hope is to base my decisions on Biblical principles as laid out in Scripture. I fall short daily, hourly even. But that's what I'm aiming for. I'm sure that some of my decisions are influenced by my upbringing, but again my goal is to examine even those to test them against the Scriptures. I keep the ones that are Biblical and discard the rest.

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd say I go by the Bible and the way I was raised. Both are in harmony, although I was not raised in a church-going home. Sometimes I use my noggin to figure things out. In various situations that come up, I try to find the win-win solution, because there isn't much in my life that must be win-lose or lose-win.

 

Sometimes I don't do something because I know I will feel guilty about it later. I will ponder whether I would do X if it weren't for the guilt feelings, but that's mostly an exercise in futility.

 

Like, would I be an international jewel thief if not for guilt and a whole host of other good reasons?

 

Or could I be a hit woman if it weren't for the guilt and the Ten Commandments and my belief that I would go straight to h-e-double toothpicks?

 

What stops me from being a criminal mastermind? If I were an atheist, I'd still have moral values, so it isn't that.

 

RC

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of you that said the Bible... All of the Bible? I don't think you read it all... but, let's be specific... for instance, your husband comes home with another woman and wants to marry her too. Where in the Bible do you turn? Or... your son or daughter is repeatedly disobedient... where in the Bible do you turn? Then, having found guidance, do you do what it says?

 

Or more to the point in our world today... is it right to transfuse blood? Where in the Bible does is talk to this issue?

 

Do you recall the Lakeberg twins? They were born cojoined at the chest sharing one heart. The surgery to separate them meant that one of them would die. Where in the Bible does it tell us how to handle this situation? Which twin should have been condemned to die?

 

You claim the Bible is this guidebook of absolute morality. I have yet to see it function as such in any situation. Since so many of you say it is... do any of you have an example of a moral crisis that the Bible provided an answer for?

 

To answer the original question, I strive to do no harm.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For those of you that said the Bible... All of the Bible? I don't think you read it all... but, let's be specific... for instance, your husband comes home with another woman and wants to marry her too. Where in the Bible do you turn? Or... your son or daughter is repeatedly disobedient... where in the Bible do you turn? Then, having found guidance, do you do what it says?

 

Or more to the point in our world today... is it right to transfuse blood? Where in the Bible does is talk to this issue?

 

Do you recall the Lakeberg twins? They were born cojoined at the chest sharing one heart. The surgery to separate them meant that one of them would die. Where in the Bible does it tell us how to handle this situation? Which twin should have been condemned to die?

 

You claim the Bible is this guidebook of absolute morality. I have yet to see it function as such in any situation. Since so many of you say it is... do any of you have an example of a moral crisis that the Bible provided an answer for?

 

To answer the original question, I strive to do no harm.

 

Phred,

 

It all about Faith in God. God decides which one of the twins will live or die, not us. It is in his hands. We all fall short of the Glory of God. We are all sinners. The Bible helps us in our walk with the Lord. It is not just a rule book of morality. It is not only a Christian's guide to right or wrong. It is the way God speaks to us and helps guide our lives. It is a tool along with prayer, fellowship, et cetera that we use to help us develop our relationship with God.

 

Please feel free to ask more questions about my faith Phred. I need to go out right now to VBS but I am willing to discuss this with you.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To make my mother and father proud. Hasn't dimmed now that they have died, but last year my work eval was really outstanding, and I was rather sorry they weren't around to read it.

 

Here is Auden quoting John Foster Hall: "the conceit . . . of the social worker—'We are all here on earth to help others; what on earth the others are here for, I don’t know'"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My moral compass, the ONE thing I base decisions and responses and behaviors on is the teachings of Jesus Christ. What does HE expect of me? How would HE desire for me to behave? I am not my own; I am bought with a price. My heart's desire is to do the will of my Heavenly Father and to reflect Him, please Him, and glorify Him.

 

And I fail. Miserably. Every. Day.

 

But that's my direction, my guide, and my goal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's a combination I suppose. I don't believe 'in the bible' the way most other Christians do but I believe in it as generally being a good moral compass. The verse that I would still say is my moral compass is when Jesus is quoted as basically saying that the most important commandment is to love God and love others as you love yourself.

 

The reason I like that so much is that if you're needing the evaluate whether or not something is moral, stand it against that 'rule'. If you can maintain a love of God, yourself and others and still do this, then you're pretty much good. Also, I love that it requires a love of self before you can move others. How can you properly show love to your neighbor if you don't have the same proper love for yourself. You really can only love to the extent you love and accept the wonderful and beautiful person God made you to be. I got really tired of how the church taught and sang how I'm such a wretch and unworthy. That's not how God sees me at all. :)

 

Plus, I'm a pretty smart adult. I tend to know what's moral in my life and what's not. ;) Beyond those things it's just decisions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My church's teachings provide my moral compass.

 

I will also sometimes ask myself how my parents would have responded to a given situation. They grew up in a time and in places where there was still a common sense of right and wrong with deep Christian roots. Although neither of my parents was Catholic, nine times out of ten "what would Mom and Dad do?" and "what does the Catechism say?" yield the same answer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My constant goal, intent, and hope is to base my decisions on Biblical principles as laid out in Scripture. I fall short daily, hourly even. But that's what I'm aiming for. I'm sure that some of my decisions are influenced by my upbringing, but again my goal is to examine even those to test them against the Scriptures. I keep the ones that are Biblical and discard the rest.

 

What she said.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Phred,

 

It all about Faith in God. God decides which one of the twins will live or die, not us. It is in his hands. We all fall short of the Glory of God. We are all sinners. The Bible helps us in our walk with the Lord. It is not just a rule book of morality. It is not only a Christian's guide to right or wrong. It is the way God speaks to us and helps guide our lives. It is a tool along with prayer, fellowship, et cetera that we use to help us develop our relationship with God.

 

Please feel free to ask more questions about my faith Phred. I need to go out right now to VBS but I am willing to discuss this with you.

Hello Adrianne... I want to know how you can use the Bible as a guide to morality. In the example of the twins, the decision as to which will live or die is not in any deity's hands, it is in the hands of the parents and the doctors who will give one a heart and let the other die. How can they use the Bible as a guide?

 

So many people claim to use the Bible as their guide to morality but I would suggest this isn't true. I would suggest that the Bible is used to validate what you want to find moral and other things the Bible might suggest are put by the wayside. For example, the Bible clearly suggests that polygamy is acceptable. Anyone seeking to validate a polygamous marriage can surely do so.

 

So when you say you use the Bible as your guide to morality, I can only ask, how?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sources:

- lots and lots of Baptist bible-education and discussion throughout my childhood with a philosophically-inclined pa. He was a chemist by trade but a dialectician at heart.

 

- long, late-night discussions with my best friend in high school in which we analyzed the world and everyone in it. She was brilliant, deeply depressed, and a good friend.

 

- reading philosophy in college. Shaking hands with the greatest minds of history is always a good thing to put your moral compass into better working order.

 

- in college I adopted Kant's categorical imperative as my guiding principle.

 

- reading Judaica from my landlord's library during law school. I can't get enough of the ethical teaching there.

 

- continuous reading in theology and philosophy and psychology.

 

- my psychiatrist DH introduced me to the Dr. Laura show. A modern version of the Greco-Roman moralists! Someone who actually said the victim wasn't always above criticism. People's actions are more important than their emotions in gauging the morality of a situation. Wow.

 

- reading Joanne's parenting advice online once I had my first child. It made me a lot bolder in standing up for What Children Need in the face of a me-me culture that gives lip service to children but sacrifices them at every turn. In my local AP group, I'm the one who can be relied on to Be Blunt. :D

 

- subscribing to some resources that I first heard about on this board: First Things, Touchstone, and Mars Hill Audio Journal.

 

A lot of thinking goes into one's moral compass, and good advice comes from everywhere. I think the Holy Spirit is using a lot of folks. It's my job to pay attention and think critically.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My constant goal, intent, and hope is to base my decisions on Biblical principles as laid out in Scripture. I fall short daily, hourly even. But that's what I'm aiming for. I'm sure that some of my decisions are influenced by my upbringing, but again my goal is to examine even those to test them against the Scriptures. I keep the ones that are Biblical and discard the rest.

 

:iagree:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

- logic,

- the wisdom of those who have gone before me,

- and nature.

 

:iagree: I would say this and my very Catholic upbringing. I may no longer Catholic, but I can't shake that old fashioned guilt that follows us around everywhere (and I say that with affection). So, if I don't want to want to wake up in the middle of the night feeling like cr*p 20 years after I've affronted someone, I JUST DON'T DO IT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I pretty much treat others how I want to be treated.

I want to be shared with when I have need. I want to hear kind words when I have sorrow. I want to be loved, respected, appreciated.

I don't want to be murdered, I don't want to be stolen from, I don't want anyone trying to sleep with my man....trying being the ultimate word!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But how do you define "harm"? Harm appears to be defined differently in different cultures or societies. What standard of "harm" do you strive to avoid? And from what/where did you derive your standard of "do no harm"?

 

Harm none = the unnecessary causation of a net gain in fear, death, or pain among living things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was raised by the Golden Rule so I'd have to say how I was raised. The examples my parents gave- sometimes even the example of what NOT to do, lol. I didn't read the Bible until the last couple of years so I can't say that it is my moral compass, although the Golden Rule is a part of Jesus' teachings. Anything that comes from my gut or instinct is based on what I learned from my parents, I think.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

is God's Word written for His people about His people. It is not only a moral guide, but a history of His interactions with His people. The Old Testament is a record of history. It tells us what the Israelites did-- how they lived. God does not condone murder, yet there is murder recorded in the Bible. God does not condone adultary or polygamy, but it is in the Bible. Nowhere does the Bible advocate more than one wife. God left his people to their own devices. They married more than one wife. And look where that got them. Abraham to Haggai and it caused strife. David took Bathsheba and it casued strife. This isn't advocation, this is a record of a culture that God turned over to themselves. Sort of like the present culture. The Israelites wanted a king and God didn't agree, but he turned them over to themselves and gave them one anyway. It caused nothing but strife.

 

THere are clear edicts on how to live in the Bible-- the 10 Commandments in the OT and Christ's teachings in the NT. Even though these edicts were clear to those present during that time, some people did not follow them. There are very few people in the OT that were said to have walked with or followed God. There were many who sat at the feet of Christ and listened to His teachings and still did not follow them. Same with today. Many people know the teachings of the Bible but do not even try to follow them. SOme try and fail miserably. We are a fallen people. But we can not say that the Bible advocates certain immoral acts just because they are recorded within its pages.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So how do you make a decision when your definition of "harm" conflicts with another person's definition of "harm" - where do you turn to make a decision?

 

For example: Many people would feel that abortion harms both mother and fetus; others would claim that denying an abortion can bring harm to a mother and that bringing an unwanted child into the world could cause it harm during its lifetime.

 

My point is that ultimately there is "something" out there that gives humanity a base for moral living. Our "feelings" just don't matter because they often conflict with other peoples feelings. Even those who claim not to have a Christian worldview end up defining their morality on something intangible. When we each determine our own "standard" we will end up in conflict at some point with someone else whose standard is different. So can we truly say that our "standard" is right?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So when you say you use the Bible as your guide to morality, I can only ask, how?

 

I will probably regret this, and I'm not the person you're addressing, but here goes.

 

The Bible is not, and has never been, read in a vacuum. When people say they are using the Bible as their guide for morality, they are inevitably doing so in the context of a believing community, using that community's standards of interpretation. In the Catholic Church, those standards are part of the Church's Magisterium, or teaching authority. In Eastern Orthodoxy, they are part what is called Holy Tradition. Every Protestant denomination has similar standards, formal or informal and more or less extensive, although the actual application may devolve, more or less, on the individual believer in a way that it would not for Catholics or Orthodox. You can see what those standards consist of by picking up any introductory book on Christian doctrine and noting the denominational affiliation of the author. For a Catholic view, you can go to the Catechism, which is also available in its entirety at the Vatican web site. (The relevant section on the role and interpretation of Scripture starts here and runs through several sub-sections.)

 

In answer to your specific question about polygamy: Christians see the Bible as a whole. It is a historical document that teaches and implies certain doctrines. Christians see the Old Testament, where polygamy appears for a limited period, as fulfilled and perfected by the New, where Jesus lays out very clear standards for s*xual and marital morality the clearly exclude polygamy. (Those links will provide cross-references to other places in the Bible that discuss the same topic, showing how a doctrinal argument is built up using the whole of Scripture.)

 

The general principle here is that ceremonial rules from the Old Testament, including kosher laws and circumcision, are not binding on Christians, although some groups believe that they are still binding on Jewish converts to Christianity. The early church set those guidelines as part of its teaching authority. Moral rules that are clearly assumed in the New Testament or are explicitly reaffirmed (the Ten Commandments, prohibitions on certain types of s*xual behavior, etc.) are considered binding. Jesus' own teachings - which Christians believe show us the heart of God's law and plans for humanity - are naturally given the greatest weight and authority.

 

Christians cannot simply use the Bible willy-nilly to affirm whatever they happen to want to believe. That they try to do so says something about the individuals involved, but not necessarily about the Bible or principles of sound exegesis.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Christians cannot simply use the Bible willy-nilly to affirm whatever they happen to want to believe. That they try to do so says something about the individuals involved, but not necessarily about the Bible or principles of sound exegesis.

 

Drew,

I tried to rep you, but could not. I will instead thank you publicly for stating this position so well. Great job!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

The Bible is not, and has never been, read in a vacuum. When people say they are using the Bible as their guide for morality, they are inevitably doing so in the context of a believing community, using that community's standards of interpretation.

 

Christians cannot simply use the Bible willy-nilly to affirm whatever they happen to want to believe. That they try to do so says something about the individuals involved, but not necessarily about the Bible or principles of sound exegesis.

 

The bible is an historical document meant to unfold God's plan from creation and outlines his plan of redemption. It is not meant to be read as a pick and choose document but in it's entirety.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To answer the original question, I strive to do no harm.

 

Sometimes I wonder.;)

 

I think Plaid Dad gave a pretty good answer to your questions, though I would say some of it does not hold true for me. I prefer not to just go by the teachings of a church or religion but to see what the Bible says for myself. What other people say may start me searching for what the Bible says, but I'd rather look at the entire Bible (which I do read) for the answers. Instead of trusting someone else's interpretation, I believe the Bible interprets itself if we are willing to look.

 

I can't remember all of what Plaid Dad said, but the example you gave of polygamy and requirements of Old Testament law can be chalked up to changes in administration.

 

Regarding polygamy specifically, I would argue that that was never God's plan or he would have created more than one woman for Adam. (I'd say or more than one man for Eve, but that sort of polygamy isn't seen in the Bible.) What I've seen in reading the Old Testament is not really God telling men to take extra wives or concubines (anyone have a scripture reference for that?) but men doing what they think is best or what they want to do and God looking past that. Sarah was the one who suggested Abraham take her handmaid because she did not believe the promise of God that Abraham would have a son by Sarah. David had many wives and yet he was called a man after God's own heart. Was it because he had many wives? If you look at the life of David, I think you'll see that had nothing to do with it. In the case of the kings, I think that they appropriated some of the customs of the kingdoms surrounding them and those customs often got them into trouble. Some of those customs--taking many wives for example--did not necessarily cause a break in the relationship with God whereas others--worshipping idols and causing the people to worship idols--did. It doesn't mean that God approved either action.

 

Personal example of using the Bible as my moral compass:

 

We have had several situations over the past 10 years where people or groups of people have treated us very unfairly and hatefully. I won't go into all the details here, but let's just say we were doing the best we could in each situation to do good for others and for one reason or another someone found ways to stir people up against us.

 

In one situation an unjust lawsuit was filed against dh and his dad's construction company by workers who had been paid more than they were worth, given incredible benefits, hired out of their need for work and not the company's need for workers, and who then decided they weren't getting enough. (There was really more to it than that--started one worker with a chip on his shoulder for something entirely unrelated to work.) The suit was dropped by their lawyer because he found that they had no grounds to take it to court.

 

All of these situations involved some very nasty personal attacks on us or members of our family. It was especially hurtful to us because, to our knowledge, we had always done our best to help these same people who turned against us. I carried a lot of bitterness over each incident. I had fantasies of revenge. It really wore on me and I was becoming someone I did not want to be because of all my anger. Passages such as Matthew 5 seemed to come up a lot during each of these times, either in my daily reading or in teachings or conversation, and they really helped me to see where my attitude was wrong and adjust it.

 

I looked at the example set by God and by Christ. Jesus Christ died for us while we were yet sinners. There is no assurance that anyone will believe and accept him as their savior as God has given us all freedom to choose, yet knowing that, he made that sacrifice anyway. I thought about the times that I have made mistakes and about how God continues to forgive me. I thought about the apostle Paul who dragged Christians out of their homes and fellowships to be put to death before he was saved. What forgiveness God had shown him, and those Christians he once persecuted were able to forgive as well and rejoice in his change of heart.

 

I started to pray for those people who had mistreated us. (Oh it was HARD!) Whether they saw any benefit from that prayer or not, I don't know since I'm no longer in contact with any of them. I do know that it changed my entire outlook on life. I didn't realize how much that anger and nastiness had crept into other areas of my life and begun to show toward other people who didn't deserve it. Each time I had a nasty thought about one of those people or a group of them, I tried to replace that with prayer for them. It didn't take long for me to see a difference in my life. The tension and anger that I hadn't even been completely aware of faded away and was replaced with a tremendous peace.

 

There are other examples I could give, but this is probably the most personal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Okay - I want to make sure I am understanding you correctly before I answer. You are saying that everyone has some intangible standard that they turn to, that it has to be more than just our "feelings," because our feelings will lead us into contradiction with the feelings of others. Right? And you're trying to find out what my external standard is?

 

I will think about an answer for you, thoughout the day. I may very well not have an answer that you will like. For now, I will say that my decisions are not at all based on only feelings, but also on logic and compassion, and the wisdom of others, the theory of natural rights, and ultimately, personal responsibility for free will. It's not all bound up in one book or one church, but it's certainly not based on my "feelings." In all likelihood there's a very simple way to say what I'm trying to say in my rambling, unfocused way - but this week I barely know my own name :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that's pretty close. You mentioned 2 things that I find interesting: "theory of natural rights" and "personal responsibility for free will". I would be interested in what that theory means to you, from where was that theory derived, and how you define "personal responsibility for free will".

 

I'm truly interested in your viewpoint because I'm working with a group of teens and these questions are brought up often. So, to answer these kids who often cannot completely formulate what they are thinking into words, it would be helpful for me to understand where others are coming from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello Adrianne... I want to know how you can use the Bible as a guide to morality. In the example of the twins, the decision as to which will live or die is not in any deity's hands, it is in the hands of the parents and the doctors who will give one a heart and let the other die. How can they use the Bible as a guide?

 

Hi Phred,

 

I think Plaid Dad said it very well. I wanted to add that as Christians we believe in the teachings of Christ. The Old Testament rules only apply if Christ mentions and supports them again in the New Testament. This is the guide I have always followed. Christians do not follow only the Old Testament that would be the Jewish Law before Christ (it is a little more complicated than that but I do not want to go into it here).

 

For example, polygamy as you said is accepted and was practice culturally in the Old Testament, however, as Plaid Dad said, Christ condemned this practice in the New Testament, here we follow the teachings of Christ as Christians and outlaw polygamy.

 

I am starting to get the feeling Phred that since you have no belief in God that you cannot understand our faith. I am trying my best to help you understand. With the baby example, as Christians, we believe God is sovereign over everything. Will I get married? Will I have children? Which twin will live or die? God decides - period. The doctors and parents are only around to help carry out His will. We do what we can but in the end, God has the final say.

 

So many people claim to use the Bible as their guide to morality but I would suggest this isn't true. I would suggest that the Bible is used to validate what you want to find moral and other things the Bible might suggest are put by the wayside. For example, the Bible clearly suggests that polygamy is acceptable. Anyone seeking to validate a polygamous marriage can surely do so.

 

My thoughts for you are many here so I will try to narrow it. Forgive me if I stray from my point or confuse the daylights out of you.

 

Yes you are very correct that Christians use the Bible sometimes to validate their own moral code. People use this to abuse their children. People use this to steal from each other (an eye for an eye). Again these are Old Testement answers. We are all sinners. No one is perfect or always does the right thing.

 

As Christians, it is our charge by God to walk with Him, to develop a relationship with him. It is through this relationship that we find guidance in the Bible. We should not and cannot depend on ourselves or our gut feelings to get us through. It is only through consultation with the Scriptures and prayer that we can know God's will. (and sometimes not even then). Again in comes faith and trusting God's perfect will.

 

You ask how I use the Bible as my book of morality and I have to agree again with Plaid Dad that the Bible is not read in a vacuum. You can't just open the book and find the answer to what you want. (with the exception of the 10 Commandments found in Exodus these are black and white.)

 

When faced with a moral crisis, I first pray, read the scriptures, consult my fellow Christians or pastor and pray some more. My actions are not always correct or "right". I may ere grossly in what I do, but I do my best with God's help.

 

As my personal guideline, as I tell my kids, if are not producing the fruits of the Spirit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, et cetera, then chances are you are not supporting God and the devil is hidden somewhere in there.

 

I hope I have answered your question. Please feel free to ask some more questions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...