WWYD re: formula feeding/using milk 8 month old

[Murmer]

I just picked up a child care baby who is 8 months old. She is a chunky adorable baby but today is the first time I met her or daddy (who is quite young but doing his best considering he has only had her 2 weeks full time). Daddy told me they don't do formula and handed me a bottle of 2% milk and said to mix it 50/50 with water and give her that....WWYD?

It makes me feel funny to give a baby cows milk because I have heard that you should till 1 but is it really that bad? Do I need to tell dad that I will only give her formula and to get soy based if she can't do the milk based? Have you ever given your under 1 year old baby anything other than breastmilk or formula?

TIA!!!

[NatashainDFW]

There is just not enough nutrition in cow's milk, especially watered down 2% cow's milk, for a growing baby. I would get some information on that and print it out for him. Explain to him that he must send formula for her. He may just not get it.

[Princess Peach]

That is definitely not enough for an infant. Formula has added vitamins and fats that babies need. Watered down 2% isn't even close. If he can't afford formula, there are things he can do to get it. Maybe get him in touch with agencies in your town that can help. If he's just ignorant, I'd inform him of the risks of malnutrition.

 

I'd definitely feel bad giving the baby the milk. In fact, I'd tell him I could not keep the child unless I could feed her properly while in my care.

[abbeyej]

Good gracious. Whole cow's milk? *Maybe*. 2% watered down?!? Yikes! ... If this is your childcare business, perhaps you need a policy in place of giving babies under 1 year of age formula?

 

Also, is it possible they're just poor and trying to cut corners?

[Carrie12345]

No, I would flat out tell him I can't keep a baby without following the minimum feeding guidelines.

 

Of course, I would say it gently, but make no if, ans, or buts about it. 2% isn't even the right thing for a baby over 1. Watered down doesn't make sense for ANYONE.

[justasque]

WIC, if it's a money issue.

A human milk bank, maybe, if it's philosophical.

Clearly not an anti-cows-milk issue, so regular formula...

That's a tough one.

I'm assuming there are some solids in the picture?

 

"I'm a little uncomfortable with giving cow's milk to a child this young. A friend of mine with an 8 month old said her doc said that there was important stuff in formula at that age. Is she getting mamma's milk when she's at home? Do you guys do WIC? I want to respect your wishes, but since it's a little unusual I want to understand where you're coming from so I can get it right, the way you want it. She's such a cutie! What a great kid!"

Edited April 16, 2012 by askPauline

[nova147]

Yeah, I'd insist on formula. If cost is an issue, send him to WIC. I think they service families up to 180% of poverty level, so lots of people qualify. We did give DD2 pediasure from 9 months on. She also wasn't growing well due to anemia and would not take supplemental formula (I breast fed). But we did it inde the doctor's care. But I'd never give watered down cow's milk - just not enough calories or nutrients.

[SonshineLearner]

You can be on the program to get reimbursed for formula... I think :) Maybe it's a money thing? It's cash for them. Seriously, I'd probably have to turn them in if they left your program because of this. I would explain that I'd get closed if the child whatever it is where you live... place found out about 2% milk. :( Way sad for that baby :(

[Carrie12345]

WIC, if it's a money issue.

A human milk bank, maybe, if it's philosophical.

Clearly not an anti-cows-milk issue, so regular formula...

That's a tough one.

I'm assuming there are some solids in the picture?

 

"I'm a little uncomfortable with giving cow's milk to a child this young. A friend of mine with an 8 month old said her doc said that there was important stuff in formula at that age. Is he getting mamma's milk when he's at home? Do you guys do WIC? I want to respect your wishes, but since it's a little unusual I want to understand where you're coming from so I can get it right, the way you want it. He's such a cutie! What a great kid!"

 

I completely disagree with the bolded, sorry! It leaves room for him to say "This is what we're doing, and this is what we want you to do." Some people ARE that ignorant and stubborn.

He needs to be spoken to with gentle authority from someone who knows what is healthy and right before he makes his child seriously ill.

 

Cow's milk is not recommended by the American Academy of Pediatrics for children under 1 year old. Infants fed whole cow's milk don't get enough vitamin E, iron, and essential fatty acids. They also get too much protein, sodium, and potassium. These levels may be too high for the infant's system to handle.

[Lecka]

I don't think it is fair to assume he is selling his WIC formula on ebay.

 

It takes a little time to get on WIC. He might need to take off work to go to the appointment, etc., or just not know about it.

 

I would see if the daycare could pay for formula and add it to his bill, but let him know and give him information for WIC. I think I would want a doctor's note if not giving formula. It is a medical issue and not personal preference.

 

But yeah -- I do think you need to say something. Daycares are really considered experts by a lot of young parents! I think there is a very good chance of them welcoming advice from someone they see as an expert.

[*********]

I agree with everyone else, that's just not enough nutrition.

 

Now, I did have a girlfriend confide in me once that she switched one of her children from formula to whole milk at 9 months, because they just couldn't afford the formula. The child is 9 now. I don't fault her for making the decision she felt she had to make. However, had I known her back then, I would've helped her find a way to continue on the formula for three more months.

 

Of course, there are those who don't qualify for WIC or other food assistance because they make 'too much', however they still struggle to afford formula, diapers, etc. I don't know, that's hard. But even then, you'd think they'd do *something* better than watered down 2%. Like maybe get the 'store brand' formula, and mix it 1/2 and 1/2 with whole milk? But really, I know it's best to do all formula to 12 months.

 

I'd for sure have to talk to the dad about it. Maybe find out the reason as delicately as you can, and then go from there. If it's ignorance, educate him. If it's finances, maybe he just doesn't know where to get assistance? And if it's that he doesn't qualify for assistance but still can't afford it, I'd be making some calls to crisis pregnancy centers, local food banks, and local churches. Surely someone can assist him for four more months.

[nukeswife]

I would definitely find out if this is an ignorance or financial issue. I was actually a 2% milk baby from about that age on, but my mom didn't water it down. It wasn't a financial thing either it was a "this is the only thing she won't puke up immediately" I did switch my older two kids to whole milk at 10 months but that was because the Drs advised it as they were very big for their age and drank the stuff by the bucket full even with solids introduced.

 

I'm might be willing to give the 2% milk, but would never in a million years water it down.

[ssavings]

I just picked up a child care baby who is 8 months old. She is a chunky adorable baby but today is the first time I met her or daddy (who is quite young but doing his best considering he has only had her 2 weeks full time). Daddy told me they don't do formula and handed me a bottle of 2% milk and said to mix it 50/50 with water and give her that....WWYD?

It makes me feel funny to give a baby cows milk because I have heard that you should till 1 but is it really that bad? Do I need to tell dad that I will only give her formula and to get soy based if she can't do the milk based? Have you ever given your under 1 year old baby anything other than breastmilk or formula?

TIA!!!

 

2% milk has about 15 Kcal/ounce, and about .6 g of fat/oz... So, watered down would be about 7.5 Kcal/ounce and about .3 g of fat/oz.

Formula/breast milk have about 20 Kcal/ounce, and about 1.1 g of fat/oz.

 

Maybe there's a medical issue, or something? I can't imagine what that would be, but I suppose it's possible?

 

I guess if she was on enough table-food, maybe, she wouldn't need the nutrition in formula? But, even then, I've always been told to keep kids on whole milk for a while for the extra fat? And why water milk down at all??? Yuck!

[Murmer]

She is a very chunky baby at 8 months she weighs too much for a bucket carseat. Dad said something about milk formula doing something to her poop and it didn't work so they are doing the watered down milk. It sounded off but I was doing so much paperwork stuff with him I didn't push it. He is trying to get wic but there is legal stuff and time stuff that he is dealing with from what I gathered. I did not plan to do day care I just took a friends little boy till she could get him in a real daycare...he's on the waiting list, and this baby is a friend of the friend. So I figured I would give it a try. I am going to tell him she must have formula of some sort.

[KrissiK]

 

I'd definitely feel bad giving the baby the milk. In fact, I'd tell him I could not keep the child unless I could feed her properly while in my care.

 

:iagree: Even with cow's milk, I've read that children should have whole milk until age 2 (or maybe a bit younger) because the protein ratio is too high for them and is hard for their system. Plus, they need added fat for neurological development.

[Paige]

I was a breastfeeder so I will admit I have no experience with formula or cow's milk for infant's. Based on my total inexperience, it seems borderline medical neglect to feed her watered down 2% milk. I'd consider reporting him or at least calling a pediatrician and asking if it is considered neglectful. The baby's higher weight does not mean she is healthy.

[higginszoo]

If she's having poop problems on regular formula, that points to a probable problem with milk products, and giving her regular milk is bad for that, along with the other problems mentioned here. Wal-Mart sells soy formula for the same price as regular formula, much less cost than name-brand, but still totally fine nutritionally (certainly 1000% better than what they're doing now, as far as that goes).

[ssavings]

She is a very chunky baby at 8 months she weighs too much for a bucket carseat. Dad said something about milk formula doing something to her poop and it didn't work so they are doing the watered down milk.

 

I think fat is still needed for brain development, even if the kid is bigger? Maybe no?

The poop thing is weird to me, too. There are soy formulas, elemental formulas? Or, really, just milk that's not watered down?

 

How strange!

[Mommy22alyns]

No way. 8 months is too young, and 50/50 is crazy! :001_huh:

[Mommy22alyns]

I think fat is still needed for brain development, even if the kid is bigger? Maybe no?

The poop thing is weird to me, too. There are soy formulas, elemental formulas? Or, really, just milk that's not watered down?

 

How strange!

 

This is true, generally up to age 2.

[amy g.]

My last two babies were practically failure to thrive. I worked with my pediatrician, and a lactation consultant.

 

They were allergic to regular formula, and refused to take any of the expensive kind for allergies.

 

At one point Miss Bossy was in the hospital for something unrelated. The doctors threatened not to let me take her home unless they saw her gaining weight.

 

With Miss Good, my lactation consultant finally said, "you have all of those goats at home. Try pasturizing some milk and see if she will take it." After steadily losing, she gained 8 oz in 3 days.

 

I continued to nurse her on demand, but she really thrived on the goat milk as well.

 

So I can see both sides. I think I would try getting the dad to drop the 2% and see if he would agree to store bought goat milk in a sippy cup with some heathy solids such as sweet potatoes.

 

I'm no fan of formula or reduced fat milk.

[rieshy]

My last two babies were practically failure to thrive. I worked with my pediatrician, and a lactation consultant.

 

They were allergic to regular formula, and refused to take any of the expensive kind for allergies.

 

At one point Miss Bossy was in the hospital for something unrelated. The doctors threatened not to let me take her home unless they saw her gaining weight.

 

With Miss Good, my lactation consultant finally said, "you have all of those goats at home. Try pasturizing some milk and see if she will take it." After steadily losing, she gained 8 oz in 3 days.

 

I continued to nurse her on demand, but she really thrived on the goat milk as well.

 

So I can see both sides. I think I would try getting the dad to drop the 2% and see if he would agree to store bought goat milk in a sippy cup with some heathy solids such as sweet potatoes.

 

I'm no fan of formula or reduced fat milk.

 

My 6th was failure to thrive. It was an undiagnosed FOD. We ended up switching to rotating formula with raw goats milk out of desperation after nursing for 6 months. I didn't tell anyone because I was afraid of a brouhaha. But, Bingo- it worked. After we finally got his diagnoses we found out that goat's milk is one of the only sources for an enzyme his body was critically lacking because of a genetic defect.

 

People who want to report parents for food choices scare me!! I know of loving foster homes-but I've also worked with kids from some really scarey foster homes. Do you really think that a foster home will have superior nutrition; is reporting someone really the knee-jerk answer? Is it really in the best interest of the child, or is it just easy?

[justasque]

I completely disagree with the bolded, sorry! It leaves room for him to say "This is what we're doing, and this is what we want you to do." Some people ARE that ignorant and stubborn.

He needs to be spoken to with gentle authority from someone who knows what is healthy and right before he makes his child seriously ill.

 

 

I'm sorry I was unclear - you're right, she shouldn't promise to do what the dad wants if that's watered down 2% (assuming no bizarre medical reason). I should have said "I want to do what the baby needs", or something similar. Obviously, the OP shouldn't feed the baby in a way that's not healthy - and watered down 2% seems very much unhealthy to me.

 

For the OP to help, she's got to have dad's trust that she's not just an interfering bossy person. Being combative or authoritative before you've gathered all the info may be counter-productive. Understanding more about the decision - whether a doctor is involved, whether there are health issues, money issues, etc. - will help in creating a relationship with the parent and understanding the parameters a solution must take into consideration. Both the OP and the dad (presumably) want the baby to be healthy, first and foremost.

[MrsBear]

My last two babies were practically failure to thrive. I worked with my pediatrician, and a lactation consultant.

 

They were allergic to regular formula, and refused to take any of the expensive kind for allergies.

 

At one point Miss Bossy was in the hospital for something unrelated. The doctors threatened not to let me take her home unless they saw her gaining weight.

 

With Miss Good, my lactation consultant finally said, "you have all of those goats at home. Try pasturizing some milk and see if she will take it." After steadily losing, she gained 8 oz in 3 days.

 

I continued to nurse her on demand, but she really thrived on the goat milk as well.

 

So I can see both sides. I think I would try getting the dad to drop the 2% and see if he would agree to store bought goat milk in a sippy cup with some heathy solids such as sweet potatoes.

 

I'm no fan of formula or reduced fat milk.

 

My BM volume started to decrease significantly and my lactation consultant worked with me and I tried and tried.....DS was already 8 months old, so my LC suggested goat milk.....I added goat milk to his repertoire along with continuing the breastfeeding as long as I could and he did great with the goat milk too!

[StephanieZ]

I would NOT feed the baby watered down 2% cow milk. I would tell the parents that it was unhealthy and that I would not be part of that (unless I heard personally and in writing from an MD treating the baby that this was advised, which is NOT GONNA HAPPEN). They could get proper formula (assuming breast milk is no longer an option) for the baby or take the baby elsewhere.

 

If I was not convinced that the parents were now educated and were going to properly feed it from then on, I would feel obliged to call CPS.

[Impish]

Diva bit me x3, drawing blood when she was around 9 mths old.

 

I talked to her Ped, and he told me to go ahead and put her on milk...not 2%, homogenized (I think it's called 'whole milk' in the US). I asked about putting her on formula for a few mths, and he told me not to bother. She was a big baby, totally healthy, and he assured me that switching her to milk would be totally ok.

 

I've *never* heard of giving little ones watered down 2% before. In fact, I've always been told homo/whole milk til they're 2 or 3, that they need the fat for brain development.

[Rivka]

I would suggest the possibility of soy formula or lactose-free formula, but really, if the child isn't tolerating formula then she needs to see a doctor.

 

I wouldn't feed watered down 2% milk. If the parent said there were health reasons for that diet, I would ask for a doctor's note.

[Ellie]

No, I would flat out tell him I can't keep a baby without following the minimum feeding guidelines.

 

Of course, I would say it gently, but make no if, ans, or buts about it. 2% isn't even the right thing for a baby over 1. Watered down doesn't make sense for ANYONE.

:iagree:

[Tenaj]

Maybe he (they ) don't understand the difference between whole and 2% milk? My oldest dd refused to nurse anymore at about 9 mos and the pediatrician recommended just switching her to whole milk rather than bothering to switch to formula and then to milk in just a few months. She never had any trouble with it but I'm not sure in my ignorance as a new mother if I would have realized how significant the difference was between whole and 2% milk if he hadn't mentioned it. We definitely didn't water it down though.

 

In our area, at most stores, the cost of whole vs. 2% is the same so may you could gently point out the differences and encourage them to at least beef it up to unwatered down whole milk.

[Ellie]

She is a very chunky baby at 8 months she weighs too much for a bucket carseat. Dad said something about milk formula doing something to her poop and it didn't work so they are doing the watered down milk. It sounded off but I was doing so much paperwork stuff with him I didn't push it. He is trying to get wic but there is legal stuff and time stuff that he is dealing with from what I gathered. I did not plan to do day care I just took a friends little boy till she could get him in a real daycare...he's on the waiting list, and this baby is a friend of the friend. So I figured I would give it a try. I am going to tell him she must have formula of some sort.

Formula and milk are, you know, the same food, except the formula has more nutrition. So if she's reacting to the formula, she'll react to the milk.

 

Did he give you anything else to feed her? Solid food of any kind? Or is she only getting the milk??

[StephanieZ]

People who want to report parents for food choices scare me!!

 

And, people who would turn a blind eye to someone starving an infant scare me!

 

If you don't want to turn the issue over to the gov't, you must be brave and generous enough to solve the problem personally via education/convincing/supervising/financing the change needing to ensure a healthy home for the infant. It isn't a moral option to simply ignore the endangerment of a child.

[ssavings]

My last two babies were practically failure to thrive. I worked with my pediatrician, and a lactation consultant.

 

They were allergic to regular formula, and refused to take any of the expensive kind for allergies.

 

At one point Miss Bossy was in the hospital for something unrelated. The doctors threatened not to let me take her home unless they saw her gaining weight.

 

With Miss Good, my lactation consultant finally said, "you have all of those goats at home. Try pasturizing some milk and see if she will take it." After steadily losing, she gained 8 oz in 3 days.

 

I continued to nurse her on demand, but she really thrived on the goat milk as well.

 

So I can see both sides. I think I would try getting the dad to drop the 2% and see if he would agree to store bought goat milk in a sippy cup with some heathy solids such as sweet potatoes.

 

I'm no fan of formula or reduced fat milk.

 

If it was an FTT issue, I'd understand (DS4 was FTT, with an NG tube for about a year.) that a child would need something different than the "norm".

But I am having trouble thinking of a medical issue that would require her milk to be cut half-and-half with water. ??

[SKL]

OK, so the baby is CHUBBY, and some people here are saying the baby is being STARVED. A little melodramatic if you ask me.

 

The "no cow's milk" guideline is only 9mos in most countries, and has to do with the size and maturity of the baby, not the age. The age is just a rough guideline.

 

When I was a kid, it was normal for 6mos to have half cows' milk/half water. Obviously if the baby had problems this was subject to change, but for a fat, healthy, happy 8mo baby, this is not a reason to freak out. It would be more accurate to say that there are opportunities for improvement.

 

I would sit down with the guy and try to understand how he got the idea to give the child watered-down 2% milk and how much he knows about the alternatives. I'd encourage him to seek social programs that are avaialble and maybe give him a pamphlet to help him think it through.

 

There is no one rule that's always right for every child. The "guidelines" we've had drilled into our brains should not prevent us from thinking for ourselves.

 

And while I agree that fat is essential to babies' brain development, there can be such a thing as too much at any age. As a mom who was accused of "starving" my baby by not allowing her to ingest unlimited amounts of full-test formula (yes, I put her on a diet!), I say be careful how you word things.

[butterflymommy]

Eek! I have no real advice except to share that, according to my mother, I was fed nothing but watered down SKIM milk as an infant per doctor's orders :eek: ... and I'm alive to tell the tale.

[ssavings]

I think people may be concerned about malnutrition, rather than starvation... I know when I mentioned baby getting enough fat, my question wasn't related to whether she was going to physically starve, but rather was she going to get enough fat for brain development.

[Kathryn]

I would NOT feed the baby watered down 2% cow milk. I would tell the parents that it was unhealthy and that I would not be part of that (unless I heard personally and in writing from an MD treating the baby that this was advised, which is NOT GONNA HAPPEN). They could get proper formula (assuming breast milk is no longer an option) for the baby or take the baby elsewhere.

 

If I was not convinced that the parents were now educated and were going to properly feed it from then on, I would feel obliged to call CPS.

 

I think people may be concerned about malnutrition, rather than starvation... I know when I mentioned baby getting enough fat, my question wasn't related to whether she was going to physically starve, but rather was she going to get enough fat for brain development.

 

These. I would explain my concerns and say I didn't feel comfortable with it unless I heard from the doctor.

[MomatHWTK]

I would tell him:

 

"The usual guideline for infants is to use formula until age 1*, so I'm a little uncomfortable giving baby just halved 2% milk. You say she is having trouble with her stools, is she becoming bound up or too loose?"

 

If he answer bound up, it may be that she is having trouble with dairy or just the protein content in formula in general. Supplementing with water outside meal time would be an appropriate option.

 

"Have you talked to her pediatrician about her diet? She needs to have a certain amount of fat and other nutrients and if breastmilk isn't available, the formula is a good way to ensure her proper nutrition. If she really is having trouble with dairy, then we can work with you to come up with a solution. Would you be willing to consider giving her soy formula instead of the milk for a week or two and see if that helps? You'd have to keep her away from all milk and dairy, not just her drinks though."

 

 

That's what I would do. Or chicken out and not watch the child. I was a volunteer at a facility for young kids who had kids and I couldn't take it. There was a baby who cried all the time and IMO probably had a dairy allergy (bad rash!) but the parent just wasn't open to formula switching and I wasn't really in a place to bring it up more than once. When they started bringing him in with just juice in a sippy I couldn't stand it threw in the towel. My first had allergies and the crying and rash were just too reminiscent of his ordeal for me to see without being allowed to fix. :confused:

 

*If that's what the guideline is-can't remember.

[SKL]

Re the poop problems - my kid's constipation disappeared when I switched her from soy formula to cow's milk. Of course that does not prove anything - only that cow's milk can be better than some "recommended" nutrition in some ways.

[Murmer]

So I talked to dad and if he doesn't bring formula tomorrow my dh is ready to go buy it for her. He did bring solids for her to eat but I just feel like babies should have bottles and those bottles should be formula. So that is what we will do. I assume his mother who is older probably recommended the watered down milk but I will not do it...it didn't fill her up! She is chunky and wants a lot of food and formula is part of that food and calorie count. So here's hoping he shows up with formula tomorrow.

[MomatHWTK]

I think that's a good plan. Hopefully you can be a good mentor for this young man. Maybe he will be open to help. Parenting is a hard journey.

[ktgrok]

Also, if the formula is binding her up, it usually is the iron. I believe they make lower iron formula just for that reason. Or, as someone else said, offer water as well. Once they start solids they need water to go with them. Too often they just add solids and the formula, and no water to help digest/move along the solids.

[MrsBear]

I don't use formula, but I was in Walgreen's yesterday and noticed that there was a "last chance" sign on the boxes of Similac Organic formula - it was $6.99....that's $21 off the retail price that was crossed off. I'm not sure if your Walgreen's has it too at that price, but that's pretty darn cheap.