If you believe that divorce is wrong except in case of infidelity or addiction, wwyd?

[Julie in CA]

How would you advise a friend who's in this situation?

 

She's confided in you that her dh has developed a medical condition which causes the following symptoms:

 

Low Libido & s3xual dysfunction/loss of attraction to wife

Osteoporosis

Loss of muscle mass

Muscle & joint pain

Mood swings & irritability

Fatigue

 

The condition is relatively easy to correct, but her dh refuses to seek diagnosis or treatment, and in general, is in denial about the problem. Friend has struggled for over a year, trying to convince her husband to seek treatment, to no avail. Now she is struggling to accept the situation, but you can see her going downhill, both emotionally and spiritually, at an alarming rate. You know that you are the only one she has told about the problem, out of embarrassment and out of a sense of respect for her husband.

 

How would you advise your friend? What would you say? :001_unsure:

If you're a Christian, what do you believe to be Biblical options?

Edited April 9, 2012 by Julie in CA

[kalanamak]

 

The condition is relatively easy to correct, but her dh refuses to seek diagnosis or treatment, and in general, is in denial about the problem.

 

If he hasn't been diagnosed, how does she know he has it? Did she diagnose him from what she read on the web? E.g. loss of libido and she's jumped to the conclusion it is hormonal and read up on all the effects of this.

 

If it is altering his ability to think rationally, I would call the family doc and see what she can do. I would also enlist whatever support he has, his brothers, your dh, the pastor, etc, to do a confrontation. More than marriage is at stake.

 

I'm making a wild guess this is testicular failure (or her thinking it is). Be aware that can come about from alcoholism. She may be dealing with more than she lets on.

[susankenny]

Honestly. I wouldn't advise her at all. As a friend, just listen. Just give support. When she ask you, "What would you do?", tell her you don't know really. You aren't in her shoes. Offer prayers. Offer hugs. Tell her to speak to a counselor if necessary. Often, by just letting someone share without inhibition can give much more clarity to a situation. As they speak, things may start to unfold or make sense within their own mind. Ask questions to prompt further feelings (How does that make you feel? How is that working? What do you think the solution is? What are the pros and cons if you choose to do xyz). If she is a Christian, pray together. I imagine this is really tough.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Susan

[Aelwydd]

That's a tough one, no matter what you believe about divorce.

 

I think I would advise her to seek medical advice for her own mental and physical health, from a doctor. She may be ashamed, but a doctor is legally and ethically bound not to share her information with other people, so her confidence is assured. I would offer to drive her to an appointment.

 

I would also offer to support her in whatever decision she makes, sans judgment. If I had space, I would offer her a place to stay for a few days or a week, so she has some time and space away from the situation to think her options through.

 

I might also suggest a retreat somewhere.

 

As I said, whatever decision she makes, I would be there to support and love her. It's not really my beliefs that matter. It's her decision. I wouldn't feel that it is my place to pressure her to make one choice over another. I would be there to offer up possible scenarios, and potential outcomes of each one, both positive and negative, and to just listen to her.

[HSMom2One]

As difficult as it may seem, I believe the right choice is to stay in the marriage. I'll be honest by saying that I'm in a similar situation, so I don't say this without understanding or compassion. The situation is health related and our vows included a promise to stay, "...in sickness and in health, so long as we both shall live." That wording isn't in the Bible as scripture, but it supports scripture never the less. If your friend doesn't follow these points and decides to leave, then don't judge her. Whatever she decides to do, this isn't going to be easy and she needs your friendship.

 

If you feel the need to offer suggestions because she asks it of you, then I think it would be good to encourage her to seek counseling to help her cope. My counselor has advised me to nurture and develop my relationships with female friends and not isolate myself. Another important thing is to nurture the relationship with the Lord, seeking Him with a whole heart. I bring my brokenness, loneliness and heartache to Him daily and that is how I survive. The Lord has helped me gain new insights during this time. I see it as a time that God wants to build something in me that could never have happened otherwise.

 

Praying for our spouses is so critical, and if your friend's dh ever needed prayer, it is now. We don't know what tomorrow may hold, everything could change overnight. But even if it doesn't, there is something to be said about commitment. I believe that God will reward that, and even open up other things in life that will bring much satisfaction.

 

I'd also add that your friend's dh is probably suffering a great deal internally. He no doubt struggles with depression. That and his other problems can be treated by exercise, so maybe he'd be willing to start going for walks with her or join a gym. If he won't go to the doctor, perhaps he'd respond to something like this. It's always worth a try.

 

Your friend really needs you, and for her to open up to you as she has is a great compliment to you. It means that she trusts you. Please pray for her and with her, even when you feel that you don't have any answers or suggestions. Just being there means more than you'll ever know.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

Edited April 9, 2012 by HSMom2One

[Julie in CA]

If he hasn't been diagnosed, how does she know he has it? Did she diagnose him from what she read on the web? E.g. loss of libido and she's jumped to the conclusion it is hormonal and read up on all the effects of this.

 

If it is altering his ability to think rationally, I would call the family doc and see what she can do. I would also enlist whatever support he has, his brothers, your dh, the pastor, etc, to do a confrontation. More than marriage is at stake.

 

I'm making a wild guess this is testicular failure (or her thinking it is). Be aware that can come about from alcoholism. She may be dealing with more than she lets on.

She has noticed symptoms beyond the libido issues. Fairly obvious (to her) muscle wasting, etc, and did lots of research. Spoke to *her* doctor asking for advice, and though she can't be 100% sure (because she's not a doctor, but only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, lol, remember that commercial?) it does sound rather likely.

 

Her dh doesn't go to the doctor ever, I guess. She is unwilling to speak to anyone from her church (or pretty much anyone at all) because she thinks it will do irreparable damage to their relationship. She believes he would feel humiliated & angry to the point that she thinks he might never get over it.

 

She seems certain that there is no alcohol or other addiction (including p*rn).

 

I have no encouragement to offer, and no constructive thoughts or ideas, so I appreciate any input offered. :001_smile:

[LittleIzumi]

She has noticed symptoms beyond the libido issues. Fairly obvious (to her) muscle wasting, etc, and did lots of research. Spoke to *her* doctor asking for advice, and though she can't be 100% sure (because she's not a doctor, but only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, lol, remember that commercial?) it does sound rather likely.

 

Her dh doesn't go to the doctor ever, I guess. She is unwilling to speak to anyone from her church (or pretty much anyone at all) because she thinks it will do irreparable damage to their relationship. She believes he would feel humiliated & angry to the point that she thinks he might never get over it.

 

She seems certain that there is no alcohol or other addiction (including p*rn).

 

I have no encouragement to offer, and no constructive thoughts or ideas, so I appreciate any input offered. :001_smile:

 

Would more damage be done to her relationship with him if things continue as they are without change? (Is this a patriarchal/submission type relationship? Because what I personally would do about it is very different from what options seem available in a submissive sort of relationship. Also, there is no way for her to know for sure if there is an addiction, based on personal experience.) However, as this is your friend you can advise and offer support and love, but until she's willing to DO something, that's all you can really do. :grouphug:

[Anne in CA]

This is very sad for so many reasons. I do not believe in divorce myself, and I have stayed married when probably I should not have. In the end my dh is currently in love with the Lord and a pretty good husband and father, so my staying with him has panned out, but I still have a loss of self esteem for putting up with things that were completely unacceptable.

 

I do think your friend needs to get help for herself. My dh was very angry when I outed some of his behavior to church leadership. It did not ruin our marriage, it fixed it in ways that years of counseling could never fix it. I really hope your friend will get help from a counselor and/ or her church leadership so that she is not alone dealing with a man in denial and losing her grip on sanity.

 

I may be wrong in thinking that you are LDS? If your friend is LDS she really needs to take advantage of their social services. She pays for them with her tithe, and if her marriage is damaged because she does, then her dh is so unreasonable that there is no point in waiting for him to go to the doctor, he is too unreasonable to do that too.:tongue_smilie:

[susankenny]

Well, it's hard because how I would honestly handle it might be detrimental to her own relationship, ykwim? Personally, I'd make a doctor's appointment and flat out tell my husband he's going & that I'm going with him. When your best friend is drowning, you save them. Period. Even if they fight you. That is how I would approach it. This would work in my relationship though. I'm fairly easy-going, but when I really stand up for something that's this important to me, my husband will listen. Not to mention, if the shoe were on the other foot, he would do the same for me. Health is nothing to mess around with & it's selfish and unfair to put your spouse through this. Ignoring health issues and refusing to go to the doctor is simply unfair. It sounds like your friend's scenario is different. So based on the dynamics of their own relationship, she needs to approach it from that regard I suppose. I really don't know.

 

:grouphug: Tough situation.

 

Susan

[DianeW88]

If he hasn't been diagnosed, how does she know he has it? Did she diagnose him from what she read on the web? E.g. loss of libido and she's jumped to the conclusion it is hormonal and read up on all the effects of this.

 

If it is altering his ability to think rationally, I would call the family doc and see what she can do. I would also enlist whatever support he has, his brothers, your dh, the pastor, etc, to do a confrontation. More than marriage is at stake.

 

I'm making a wild guess this is testicular failure (or her thinking it is). Be aware that can come about from alcoholism. She may be dealing with more than she lets on.

 

:iagree: Is this medical condition something the doctor has actually diagnosed? Because loss of libido and the other things you mentioned can come from a million different things...often things that have nothing to do with a physical disease. I've seen plenty of husbands complain about things you've just described..."I don't want to have sex because 'XYZ' hurts", when really...they just aren't attracted to their wife anymore or their attention is elsewhere, IYKWIM.

 

I wouldn't say this to your friend, of course, but maybe she ought to pursue that avenue a little more closely if the diagnosis of his physical ailment is purely anecdotal and hasn't been confirmed by a physician who has run tests.

[maddykate]

:iagree: With every word.

 

 

Well, it's hard because how I would honestly handle it might be detrimental to her own relationship, ykwim? Personally, I'd make a doctor's appointment and flat out tell my husband he's going & that I'm going with him. When your best friend is drowning, you save them. Period. Even if they fight you. That is how I would approach it. This would work in my relationship though. I'm fairly easy-going, but when I really stand up for something that's this important to me, my husband will listen. Not to mention, if the shoe were on the other foot, he would do the same for me. Health is nothing to mess around with & it's selfish and unfair to put your spouse through this. Ignoring health issues and refusing to go to the doctor is simply unfair. It sounds like your friend's scenario is different. So based on the dynamics of their own relationship, she needs to approach it from that regard I suppose. I really don't know.

 

:grouphug: Tough situation.

 

Susan

[justamouse]

I would tell my friend to make an appointment with a Dr. and then tell her Dh they were going to Home Depot and then show up at the Dr. and tell him that was my line in the sand. Either he walks in there, or I would be willing to stay married, and live apart.

 

When it comes to stuff like that, I could care less. I would tell my friend to fight for her marriage, and family-even if her Dh is embarrassed. Because wasting away and ruining people's lives and eventually getting so sick is going to be more embarrassing than me telling the Dr exactly what symptoms he has and making his prideful a$$ get treated for it.

[Stacy in NJ]

I would force the issue either by making an appointment for my dh and basically forcing him to go, or I'd threaten to leave him (even if it was an empty threat) if he refused to seek help.

 

It's not a situation that I would accept without some action. But, they may have a very different type of relationship.

[momma aimee]

I would advise her to stay -- he had a medical need it would be cruel of her to just leave him. the vows specifically say "in sickness". too many people , imo, run at the first sign of "this doesn't make me happy, this is not happy". well reality is not all happy roses and nice dinners.

 

I personally believe in divorce only for safety reasons.

 

I would advise her to seek therapy -- first for her, and then hopefully for him

[Dolphin]

Sometimes you need to make a stand and insist upon something, it sounds like getting her dh to the doctor is one of those. It doesn't sound like divorce needs to be in this discussion at all right now. Just having that as an option can scare a guy too much.

 

However, it sounds like there is a definite reason for him to seek medical treatment. That she should insist on it (not and I will divorce you if you don't, it just takes it to a whole other playing field(and I am not suggesting anyone has said to do that))

 

If she thinks hard, there is probably something that her husband would really like it if she did, that wouldn't be that hard to fulfill. Favorite meals, 2 sundays off from church, taking the kids out during a sporting match he wants to see etc.... that she can offer in exchange for the doctor. You catch more flies with honey method.

[*********]

How would you advise a friend who's in this situation?

 

She's confided in you that her dh has developed a medical condition which causes the following symptoms:

 

Low Libido & s3xual dysfunction/loss of attraction to wife

Osteoporosis

Loss of muscle mass

Muscle & joint pain

Mood swings & irritability

Fatigue

 

The condition is relatively easy to correct, but her dh refuses to seek diagnosis or treatment, and in general, is in denial about the problem. Friend has struggled for over a year, trying to convince her husband to seek treatment, to no avail. Now she is struggling to accept the situation, but you can see her going downhill, both emotionally and spiritually, at an alarming rate. You know that you are the only one she has told about the problem, out of embarrassment and out of a sense of respect for her husband.

 

How would you advise your friend? What would you say? :001_unsure:

If you're a Christian, what do you believe to be Biblical options?

 

Well, biblically I believe her only option is to remain married. Unless he's commited adultery, she has no grounds for divorce.

 

I'd advise her first of all to pray. Ask the Lord to help her know when to speak to her husband IN LOVE about the situation. I've found that the right timing can make a HUGE difference in how the conversation goes. Ask the Lord to prepare and soften his heart, so that her dh can really hear her concern. Then when she feels the time is right, she should share her concerns with him gently, in love. Perhaps she should do some research, and offer him information about what he can do to help himself. She should explain how his health is affecting *her*. She could ask him if he would like her help in getting an appointment made, etc. She should be clear about what she would like him to do to change/fix the problem.

 

Then she should let it be. She shouldn't nag, or poke, or scold. If she's abundantly clear on how she feels and what she wants, there's no need to keep bringing it up. I've had these sorts of conversations with my dh before. Not about the same thing, but perhaps about another situation where we disagree on what should be done. I've told him how I feel, how the situation impacts me. And then I've told him that the ball is in his court, so to speak. That I will not keep brining it up, so long as he acknowledges that he understands what my feelings and wishes are in that particular situation.

 

I find that sort of conversation freeing, in a way. My dh then knows exactly how I feel. And if he chooses to handle the situation in a way that is different than what I'd like, then he's doing so in full knowledge that I don't agree. But there are some things in life that I can't control. I can't MAKE my dh do things. It's just a fact of marriage that I've come to accept. It's not fun, it's not easy. But when I find myself getting down, discouraged, or angry over it, I pray and give it back to the Lord. He knows what I need. And sometimes what I really need is to just trust that He knows what I need. The Lord knows what I'm going through, and His grace is sufficient.

 

I'd also sincerely offer to pray with and for my friend. It sounds like she could use some lifting up right now.

 

JMO.

Edited April 9, 2012 by bethanyniez

[*********]

She has noticed symptoms beyond the libido issues. Fairly obvious (to her) muscle wasting, etc, and did lots of research. Spoke to *her* doctor asking for advice, and though she can't be 100% sure (because she's not a doctor, but only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, lol, remember that commercial?) it does sound rather likely.

 

Her dh doesn't go to the doctor ever, I guess. She is unwilling to speak to anyone from her church (or pretty much anyone at all) because she thinks it will do irreparable damage to their relationship. She believes he would feel humiliated & angry to the point that she thinks he might never get over it.

 

She seems certain that there is no alcohol or other addiction (including p*rn).

 

I have no encouragement to offer, and no constructive thoughts or ideas, so I appreciate any input offered. :001_smile:

 

Regarding the bolded:

 

I would feel exactly the same way.

 

I'd never share such a thing about dh with elders/brothers/etc. Unless dh was in obvious sin, there is NO biblical basis for her doing such a thing. And such a breach of trust really could damage a marriage severely.

 

I TOTALLY understand where she's coming from.

 

Now, I'm not judging her for sharing with you. Sometimes, it's ok to share an intimate burden with a trusted sister. One who we know will not judge, but rather help carry our burden. But even then, I am very, VERY careful who I share what with. I would never want my dh to feel ashamed or betrayed.

 

Which also means, Julie, that she sees you as a trusted friend who will not judge her dh, but rather help be a support for her. Which I realize may seem a bit overwhelming to you; but she just needs a sister to help bear her burden. :grouphug:

[kalanamak]

She has noticed symptoms beyond the libido issues. Fairly obvious (to her) muscle wasting, etc, and did lots of research. Spoke to *her* doctor asking for advice, and though she can't be 100% sure (because she's not a doctor, but only stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, lol, remember that commercial?) it does sound rather likely.

 

 

It could be other, even more horrible things. He needs an intervention. No need to dwell on testicles. Just a "you are losing weight and you need to see the doc". Does he have family who will circle the wagons? Sometimes disease alters perception. (My favorite story on this was a woman with SEVERE hypothyroid who came in hoarse, gaunt, and with lizardy skin. She was apathetic, and sister had dragged her in. I got her started on replacement, and one week later she came in in a tizzy. "I look like SH************!" she said in a panic. She thought the medicine I'd given her made her look horrible. :lol: I told her to go take a pic and then another one in 8 weeks.)

 

Even if the marriage fails because he feels betrayed, she, ethically IMO, owes him a chance at decent health. If I loved someone or felt responsible for them, I'd take their scorn over their demise. Would anyone feel more ashamed of divorce than of killing someone through inaction? I don't see a reason to wring hands and keep it secret. ACT woman! Here is the worse you made a promise about.

[ocelotmom]

How would you advise a friend who's in this situation?

 

She's confided in you that her dh has developed a medical condition which causes the following symptoms:

 

Low Libido & s3xual dysfunction/loss of attraction to wife

Osteoporosis

Loss of muscle mass

Muscle & joint pain

Mood swings & irritability

Fatigue

This makes me think low testosterone, and I can see how a man would be resistant to accepting that diagnosis or discussing it with a doctor, church leadership, or peers. However, it really needs to be medically addressed, both because it has potentially serious causes and potentially serious long-term effects even with benign causes.

 

My opinion - s3x life needs to be left out of it entirely, even if it's a big deal for her. It's likely to improve with treatment, but focusing on it is likely to contribute to any sense of emasculation he may already have, or may make him resistant to treatment if he is at a place where he doesn't want it to improve. It can be caused by cancer. It can contribute to the development of heart disease. These are both very important reasons, amongst others, to get it evaluated and treated appropriately.

 

I do think that there is a difference between leaving someone who absolutely refuses to take care of their health despite encouragement and support and leaving someone because they are sick. However, if s3x life (and the associated emotions) and feeling rejected is the primary issue leading her to want to leave, I think that therapy (personal, though couples might be an eventual step) would be a better first step. That's not meant judgmentally - it's a difficult situation, but one where the marriage would be best served by her being able to react intellectually and acknowledge it as something sucky but not personal.

[CupOCoffee]

How would you advise a friend who's in this situation?

 

She's confided in you that her dh has developed a medical condition which causes the following symptoms:

 

Low Libido & s3xual dysfunction/loss of attraction to wife

Osteoporosis

Loss of muscle mass

Muscle & joint pain

Mood swings & irritability

Fatigue

 

The condition is relatively easy to correct, but her dh refuses to seek diagnosis or treatment, and in general, is in denial about the problem. Friend has struggled for over a year, trying to convince her husband to seek treatment, to no avail. Now she is struggling to accept the situation, but you can see her going downhill, both emotionally and spiritually, at an alarming rate. You know that you are the only one she has told about the problem, out of embarrassment and out of a sense of respect for her husband.

 

How would you advise your friend? What would you say? :001_unsure:

If you're a Christian, what do you believe to be Biblical options?

 

I can't really add too much more wisdom on top of those who've already spoken. *I* can only add the perspective of someone who has been to he** and back with an ill husband. We went through unbelievable stress and strain, and breakdowns, and all kinds of dark places before he was diagnosed and began treatment -- and even though I spent 9 months crying daily, in anguish daily, I never ever ever considered abandoning my husband.

 

You asked what her *Biblical* options are? Her Biblical options are to stay with her husband, help him through this, pray for him (and her own self) constantly...all this has already been said. I *do* understand that the husband here does not want to seek treatment, and there is an embarrassment factor. I also see that there really is NOT an official diagnosis? Is that correct? And I so get the denial thing...it's scary for men to have problems in these particular physical areas.

 

I would, as a wife who wants to respect her husband's privacy and feelings, seek treatment for the muscle & joint pain, muscle loss, fatigue, and mood swings. Re-arrange that list to make the intimate problems be on the bottom, seek help for those other areas. Make an appointment for him if necessary. Tell him that I am really worried about the joint and muscle/fatigue issues -- these could be indications of autoimmune diseases. Leave the sax/libido stuff out it.

 

It's hard. I know; I've been there and beyond. But in the end, if she is seeking Christian advice, she must stand by her man! Heck, I have a tough time believing that folks from the non-Christian perspective would tell her "leave his sorry behind, he'll be too much work if he's got health issues", ya know?

 

You asked.

 

~coffee~

[Julie in CA]

She absolutely does not want to leave, and believes it to be morally wrong. At the same time she is finding it emotionally intolerable to worry about the possibility of her dh having a more profound illness left unchecked, along with endless self-recriminations about every detail of her appearance, personality, & self-worth. Her dh has made attempts to assure her that she's wonderful, but also shuts down any discussion about having a check-up with saying that everything is fine, or that he'll think about going, but not any time soon. :001_huh:

[LizzyBee]

James Dobson's book Love Must Be Tough might be helpful. It teaches spouses how to set boundaries and how to draw a line a sand with the goal of preserving and improving the marriage.

[FaithManor]

Hm. Maybe I'm overly critical or sensitive or something but I see sin all over this. Without knowing the couple in question, of course, I suspect a sin of pride, a sin of selfishness, a sin of fear, even.

 

He's clearly not loving his wife the way the Bible commands.

 

He's clearly not stewarding his body the way the Bible commands.

 

While I can HIGHLY appreciate the respect a wife would want to show her husband, especially in terms of such private matters, I have to wonder if silence in this area is really the most respectful and loving response.

 

 

I agree with this. Love sometimes has to be tough because it is in the best interest of the other person. Allowing him to continue in this line is NOT loving. It is also not good for them if they have children because it sets a horrible example for them and a bad marital relationship ends up being detrimental to their well being. It has a snowball effect.

 

She doesn't have grounds for divorce if she is believes in a conservative Christian view of divorce and vows say "in sickness and in health". However, nothing in the vows say "you get to ignore your health so much that our marriage tanks and it's abusive to me" either. He either goes to the doctor, the psychologist, the therapist, whatever, or there are consequences. She needs to be tough. She can either live with him as a roomate - a person who shares expenses and nothing more (not what I would choose because of the message it sends to the children) - or separate for a short time and see if that is the wake up call he needs. A separation does not have to equal the disallusionment of the marriage. I've met more than one couple for whom time spent apart equalled both of them re-evaluating their own problems and approaches to problem solving; this then brought about a sweet reconcilliation.

 

The one thing she won't be able to do is do nothing and then if he has a brain tumor, cancer, or other catastrophic health problem, forgive herself later when it is beyond repair. At some point, the rubber has to meet the road for everyone's sake.

 

I don't think the Biblical answer is to look the other way. That's the least loving thing that can be done...it's saying that love is not greater than taking the path of least resistence.

 

Faith

[Dustybug]

Well, biblically I believe her only option is to remain married. Unless he's commited adultery, she has no grounds for divorce.

 

I'd advise her first of all to pray. Ask the Lord to help her know when to speak to her husband IN LOVE about the situation. I've found that the right timing can make a HUGE difference in how the conversation goes. Ask the Lord to prepare and soften his heart, so that her dh can really hear her concern. Then when she feels the time is right, she should share her concerns with him gently, in love. Perhaps she should do some research, and offer him information about what he can do to help himself. She should explain how his health is affecting *her*. She could ask him if he would like her help in getting an appointment made, etc. She should be clear about what she would like him to do to change/fix the problem.

 

Then she should let it be. She shouldn't nag, or poke, or scold. If she's abundantly clear on how she feels and what she wants, there's no need to keep bringing it up. I've had these sorts of conversations with my dh before. Not about the same thing, but perhaps about another situation where we disagree on what should be done. I've told him how I feel, how the situation impacts me. And then I've told him that the ball is in his court, so to speak. That I will not keep brining it up, so long as he acknowledges that he understands what my feelings and wishes are in that particular situation.

 

I find that sort of conversation freeing, in a way. My dh then knows exactly how I feel. And if he chooses to handle the situation in a way that is different than what I'd like, then he's doing so in full knowledge that I don't agree. But there are some things in life that I can't control. I can't MAKE my dh do things. It's just a fact of marriage that I've come to accept. It's not fun, it's not easy. But when I find myself getting down, discouraged, or angry over it, I pray and give it back to the Lord. He knows what I need. And sometimes what I really need is to just trust that He knows what I need. The Lord knows what I'm going through, and His grace is sufficient.

 

I'd also sincerely offer to pray with and for my friend. It sounds like she could use some lifting up right now.

 

JMO.

 

Regarding the bolded:

 

I would feel exactly the same way.

 

I'd never share such a thing about dh with elders/brothers/etc. Unless dh was in obvious sin, there is NO biblical basis for her doing such a thing. And such a breach of trust really could damage a marriage severely.

 

I TOTALLY understand where she's coming from.

 

Now, I'm not judging her for sharing with you. Sometimes, it's ok to share an intimate burden with a trusted sister. One who we know will not judge, but rather help carry our burden. But even then, I am very, VERY careful who I share what with. I would never want my dh to feel ashamed or betrayed.

 

Which also means, Julie, that she sees you as a trusted friend who will not judge her dh, but rather help be a support for her. Which I realize may seem a bit overwhelming to you; but she just needs a sister to help bear her burden. :grouphug:

 

 

:iagree:on all accounts.

 

:grouphug:

[Peaceful Isle]

I haven't read the other posts, but I'll just write my advice.

 

This type of situation is hard. It really tests a relationship. The only advice that I can give is to pray. Maybe he is worried about what the dr might say, or diagnose him with? Maybe he is afraid that his wife won't love him anymore etc..? People think silly things sometimes, when they are scared.

maybe she could reassure him that she will love and stay with him no matter what .

 

I have mentioned before that a few years ago my dh was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. The first year was horrible. He was in denial, gained lots of weight with his steroids, went into depression, etc.. ( I know everyone with MS is not the same, but this is just his story)

It was a very trying year. He was not the same person I married, mentally, emotionally, or physically. It was really hard. I would ask him to go back to the dr, maybe change his meds, try something different, but he kinda was shut down, YKWIM? He would literally stay in bed for days, only getting up to eat and shower. :(

Anyways, I learned later, that this was just part of the denial stage. I just stuck with him, prayed, yes I had my " I want to throw things across the room" moments. I'm not a saint :)

I would just suggest to your friend to pray, and ask the Lord to help in this situation. Maybe he is in denial right now...

 

Oh, and a side note, my dh is in remission right now doing wonderfully. Life has it's twists and turns, and sometimes it make the right turn. :) Hopefully it will for your friend and her dh. I will be praying for them.

Edited April 9, 2012 by mommyof4AZ

[Slartibartfast]

I wouldn't divorce in that situation but I would be doing the "home depot" trick.

 

I don't believe in "just let it be" if it is destroying two people. It needs fixing. Wallowing in unhappiness isn't good for anyone and it isn't fair to the children who are stuck in that situation.

Edited April 9, 2012 by Sis

[tex-mex]

I think it would be irresponsible for any of us to dx the situation as it could be a myriad of reasons medically for those symptoms. Plus, all of this is now hearsay from a 2nd party -- and we are giving advice on divorce/marriage? Now that IS irresponsible. :glare: I think we and the OP need to stay out of it. There may also be another different perspective if one talked to the husband. Be careful.

 

ETA: Obviously the OP's friend is trusting her to a very PRIVATE issue. I would keep her confidence. She sounds like she needs a safe place or person to talk to?

Edited April 9, 2012 by tex-mex

[Aggie]

I agree with this. Love sometimes has to be tough because it is in the best interest of the other person. Allowing him to continue in this line is NOT loving. It is also not good for them if they have children because it sets a horrible example for them and a bad marital relationship ends up being detrimental to their well being. It has a snowball effect.

 

She doesn't have grounds for divorce if she is believes in a conservative Christian view of divorce and vows say "in sickness and in health". However, nothing in the vows say "you get to ignore your health so much that our marriage tanks and it's abusive to me" either. He either goes to the doctor, the psychologist, the therapist, whatever, or there are consequences. She needs to be tough. She can either live with him as a roomate - a person who shares expenses and nothing more (not what I would choose because of the message it sends to the children) - or separate for a short time and see if that is the wake up call he needs. A separation does not have to equal the disallusionment of the marriage. I've met more than one couple for whom time spent apart equalled both of them re-evaluating their own problems and approaches to problem solving; this then brought about a sweet reconcilliation.

 

The one thing she won't be able to do is do nothing and then if he has a brain tumor, cancer, or other catastrophic health problem, forgive herself later when it is beyond repair. At some point, the rubber has to meet the road for everyone's sake.

 

I don't think the Biblical answer is to look the other way. That's the least loving thing that can be done...it's saying that love is not greater than taking the path of least resistence.

 

Faith

 

This is my thought. She has to look out for the children. He's having mood swings and is irritable, and dh's condition is putting pressure on their marriage. The dc's emotional health has to be considered.:grouphug:

[Mommyfaithe]

Well, it's hard because how I would honestly handle it might be detrimental to her own relationship, ykwim? Personally, I'd make a doctor's appointment and flat out tell my husband he's going & that I'm going with him. When your best friend is drowning, you save them. Period. Even if they fight you. That is how I would approach it. This would work in my relationship though. I'm fairly easy-going, but when I really stand up for something that's this important to me, my husband will listen. Not to mention, if the shoe were on the other foot, he would do the same for me. Health is nothing to mess around with & it's selfish and unfair to put your spouse through this. Ignoring health issues and refusing to go to the doctor is simply unfair. It sounds like your friend's scenario is different. So based on the dynamics of their own relationship, she needs to approach it from that regard I suppose. I really don't know.

 

:grouphug: Tough situation.

 

Susan

This...and :grouphug::grouphug:

[Professormom]

Honestly. I wouldn't advise her at all. As a friend, just listen. Just give support. When she ask you, "What would you do?", tell her you don't know really. You aren't in her shoes. Offer prayers. Offer hugs. Tell her to speak to a counselor if necessary. Often, by just letting someone share without inhibition can give much more clarity to a situation. As they speak, things may start to unfold or make sense within their own mind. Ask questions to prompt further feelings (How does that make you feel? How is that working? What do you think the solution is? What are the pros and cons if you choose to do xyz). If she is a Christian, pray together. I imagine this is really tough.

 

Just my 2 cents.

 

 

Susan

 

:iagree: I would definitely find out if he has been diagnosed with something or if she is doing the diagnosing based on what she is reading. So much depends on where he is in all of this and that would be so hard for you to know. Health stuff can be really hard to navigate and IMO it never hurts to just be there to listen without judging, on either side. He may be being obstinate or he may be feeling so sick that he almost can't see straight, KWIM? Divorce is so tricky because there is ALWAYS stuff someone outside the marriage can't see. And people will tend to pick out what the want to hear anyway. Knowing she isn't alone is probably the best thing you can give her. (I know this doesn't help when you want to make it better for someone you love:-)

[bookfiend]

Well, biblically I believe her only option is to remain married. Unless he's commited adultery, she has no grounds for divorce.

 

I'd advise her first of all to pray. Ask the Lord to help her know when to speak to her husband IN LOVE about the situation. I've found that the right timing can make a HUGE difference in how the conversation goes. Ask the Lord to prepare and soften his heart, so that her dh can really hear her concern. Then when she feels the time is right, she should share her concerns with him gently, in love. Perhaps she should do some research, and offer him information about what he can do to help himself. She should explain how his health is affecting *her*. She could ask him if he would like her help in getting an appointment made, etc. She should be clear about what she would like him to do to change/fix the problem.

 

Then she should let it be. She shouldn't nag, or poke, or scold. If she's abundantly clear on how she feels and what she wants, there's no need to keep bringing it up. I've had these sorts of conversations with my dh before. Not about the same thing, but perhaps about another situation where we disagree on what should be done. I've told him how I feel, how the situation impacts me. And then I've told him that the ball is in his court, so to speak. That I will not keep brining it up, so long as he acknowledges that he understands what my feelings and wishes are in that particular situation.

 

I find that sort of conversation freeing, in a way. My dh then knows exactly how I feel. And if he chooses to handle the situation in a way that is different than what I'd like, then he's doing so in full knowledge that I don't agree. But there are some things in life that I can't control. I can't MAKE my dh do things. It's just a fact of marriage that I've come to accept. It's not fun, it's not easy. But when I find myself getting down, discouraged, or angry over it, I pray and give it back to the Lord. He knows what I need. And sometimes what I really need is to just trust that He knows what I need. The Lord knows what I'm going through, and His grace is sufficient.

 

I'd also sincerely offer to pray with and for my friend. It sounds like she could use some lifting up right now.

 

JMO.

 

:iagree: I would advise friend to take care of her own health (physical and mental) and her own s#xual satisfaction. Continue to love and support her husband, and not manipulate him by tricking into an appointment or give him an ultimatium. In a sense, to mentally disengage his problems from hers because one person can not control the actions/choices of another. So after giving voice to her preferences and concerns, continuing to press just builds walls of resistance. This is because the issue isn't that the husband hasn't heard her or doesn't know he has problems, but because he is unwilling to face or fix them yet.

[ocelotmom]

I think it would be irresponsible for any of us to dx the situation as it could be a myriad of reasons medically for those symptoms.

 

As the only one who said anything specific (that's I've noticed, anyways)... I totally agree. The only reason I mentioned a specific disorder was because, if that (or something similar) is the case, the stigma involved is understandable. Intellectually, it shouldn't be any different than hypothyroid or something, but I can totally see a guy being resistant to addressing it!

 

But I should have been clearer that it was an educated guess, not an attempt at diagnosis.

[Catwoman]

She absolutely does not want to leave, and believes it to be morally wrong. At the same time she is finding it emotionally intolerable to worry about the possibility of her dh having a more profound illness left unchecked, along with endless self-recriminations about every detail of her appearance, personality, & self-worth. Her dh has made attempts to assure her that she's wonderful, but also shuts down any discussion about having a check-up with saying that everything is fine, or that he'll think about going, but not any time soon. :001_huh:

 

Then there is absolutely nothing you can do. She has already made her decision to stay with him, whether or not he agrees to see a doctor.

 

If he is basically a good guy, and goes out of his way to make her feel special and wonderful, perhaps she is simply approaching him in the wrong way when she tries to get him to see a doctor.

 

Is she nagging him about it, or does she sit down quietly with him and tell him how scared and worried she is? If he knows that she is terribly sad and worried, yet still doesn't see a doctor (just to make her happy,) there's not much she can do -- and either he doesn't love and respect her as much as she believes he does, or he's terrified that he is dying of a terrible disease and is scared to see a doctor because he thinks he's going to get bad news.

 

Without knowing the guy, it's hard to say what your friend should do, but my first thought is that she needs to appeal to him to "do it for her," even if he doesn't want to see the doctor.

[Rosy]

It would depend on to what degree his medical condition is effecting his ability to contribute to the marriage. If the situation was reversed and she was having a hard time coming to terms with a medical problem, I don't think most people here would think to kindly of his nagging, using manipulation and ultimatums, etc.

 

I have a weight problem. It hasn't incapacitated me by any means, but long-term it could definitely be a threat to my health and well-being. My husband has made his feelings known many times, and on occasion has been pushier than I would like him to be. I am making progress now, but it was something I needed to get to on my own. Knowing DH wanted me to deal with my issues helped me get to where I am now, but I needed more reasons than that to work on taking care of myself.

 

All that to say, I think it's good that she's letting him know that she's concerned and making him aware of how it effects her. If it is interfering with his parenting, their marriage, or his work, I think she could go to their pastor or someone he respects and hope he'll respond to someone else's input. And of course she should pray for him.

[lea1]

As difficult as it may seem, I believe the right choice is to stay in the marriage. I'll be honest by saying that I'm in a similar situation, so I don't say this without understanding or compassion. The situation is health related and our vows included a promise to stay, "...in sickness and in health, so long as we both shall live." That wording isn't in the Bible as scripture, but it supports scripture never the less. If your friend doesn't follow these points and decides to leave, then don't judge her. Whatever she decides to do, this isn't going to be easy and she needs your friendship.

 

If you feel the need to offer suggestions because she asks it of you, then I think it would be good to encourage her to seek counseling to help her cope. My counselor has advised me to nurture and develop my relationships with female friends and not isolate myself. Another important thing is to nurture the relationship with the Lord, seeking Him with a whole heart. I bring my brokenness, loneliness and heartache to Him daily and that is how I survive. The Lord has helped me gain new insights during this time. I see it as a time that God wants to build something in me that could never have happened otherwise.

 

Praying for our spouses is so critical, and if your friend's dh ever needed prayer, it is now. We don't know what tomorrow may hold, everything could change overnight. But even if it doesn't, there is something to be said about commitment. I believe that God will reward that, and even open up other things in life that will bring much satisfaction.

 

I'd also add that your friend's dh is probably suffering a great deal internally. He no doubt struggles with depression. That and his other problems can be treated by exercise, so maybe he'd be willing to start going for walks with her or join a gym. If he won't go to the doctor, perhaps he'd respond to something like this. It's always worth a try.

 

Your friend really needs you, and for her to open up to you as she has is a great compliment to you. It means that she trusts you. Please pray for her and with her, even when you feel that you don't have any answers or suggestions. Just being there means more than you'll ever know.

 

Blessings,

Lucinda

 

:iagree: That is a beautiful answer and I agree 100%. May God bless you Lucinda.

[Ipsey]

I don't know that this applies to this case, but we had a friend (originally, she and her husband were my children's godparents) who believed in divorce only in cases of adultery, and believed in being a supportive/submissive wife.

 

Her husband became increasingly ill over a period of a year, and increasingly unwilling to see a doctor. She prayed and tried not to nag. By the time he passed out at work one day and was taken in to the hospital, his undiagnosed colon cancer was so far along she didn't really have to consider divorce.

 

Very sad :(

[Julie in CA]

But in the end, if she is seeking Christian advice, she must stand by her man! Heck, I have a tough time believing that folks from the non-Christian perspective would tell her "leave his sorry behind, he'll be too much work if he's got health issues", ya know?

 

You asked.

 

~coffee~

Umm...the reason I addressed it to those who believe divorce isn't really an option is because, for her, it's *not an option*, not because she's willing to dump him because of the work a health issue might entail. :001_huh:

 

-Not really sure which part of what I wrote made it sound like she was looking for an excuse to leave...but that is not what I meant to say or imply.

[StephanieZ]

I would advise her to decide for herself if she would be happier staying in the marriage or leaving. I don't believe she is obliged to stay given her husband's continuing refusal to get help. It is his decision to refuse help that is the clincher. If the problems were not a result of his continuing CHOICE, then I'd say she should stay. But, he is CHOOSING to reject his vows -- cherish, love, honor . . . those things require every reasonable effort to be a fully participatory and present spouse and partner.

 

So, the Dear Abby decision: Is she better off with or without him?

 

Some people might be happier staying while making a separate life. One that would probably not include a regular s*xual partner. That would be a deal breaker for some, but not for others. If dh is a good friend, good man, good dad, good provider . . . well, those things count for a lot. Some people have marriages that look a lot like housemates to me . . . I don't think I could stomach that long term, but I know lots of people seem to make it work.

 

Personally, I would have trouble accepting the refusal to get help. It would likely be a deal breaker for me, as I'd interpret it (probably irrationally) as a rejection of me personally. I'd likely end up leaving (or making him so miserable that he left) unless I really felt I had no options financially or practically with the kids. In that case, I'd likely leave once the kids were up and out.

 

I think it'd be very fair to arrange a separation of 6 mos to see if dh sees the light and gets help. If not, move on if feasible.

 

Personally, I don't think I'd consider dating or remarriage until my kids were all grown and gone. So, if I could find ways to be happy in SPITE OF the sad situation of my spuse, I'd likely choose that . . . hoping for the best, hoping for dh to turn around in time, nad meanwhile making sure I was taking care of my future financially, physically, emotionally . . . responsible saving, improving my education/earning power, nurturing friendships, taking up hobbies, etc. And, of course, being the best mom I am able to be.

 

(((Hugs))) to your friend. I hope she finds peace and comfort.

[Joanne]

I am living with a similar set of physical symptoms in a spouse. Although my DH is more proactive with his medical care, there are times he's passive/depressed/makes exacerbating choices.

 

I don't think of it in terms of "biblical/not biblical" because I think that Christians have gone kafluey and coco-puffs over the "biblical reasons for divorce" stuff. I think "divorce is not an option" is literally a damaging stand.

 

Nonetheless, I struggle along with our new normal with no intention of ending or changing the status of our relationship. It's just different now. He's not the man I married in many significant ways. Not in the expected ways you know people will change, grow, drift, shift. He's a different man.

 

Nonetheless, I wouldn't *advise* the woman at all except towards excellent self-care and support her in the decisions she makes, because I would likely understand them.

[CupOCoffee]

Umm...the reason I addressed it to those who believe divorce isn't really an option is because, for her, it's *not an option*, not because she's willing to dump him because of the work a health issue might entail. :001_huh:

 

-Not really sure which part of what I wrote made it sound like she was looking for an excuse to leave...but that is not what I meant to say or imply.

 

I am so sorry that last part of what I wrote upset you. Obviously I missed something somewhere along the way...mis-understood the first post I guess.

 

~coffee~

[Audrey]

There HAS to be a way to get him into treatment for his condition. I would try to help her with working on that. She either needs to be far more assertive, or seek someone trustworthy to intercede. It's really not fair to her or to him or their marriage to leave that issue unattended. Maybe even putting it to him that way could help push him to get treatment. If he really knew how much his stubborness was damaging his wife and threatening his marriage, maybe that could be the push he needs. At any rate, he MUST get treatment! There are no if, ands or buts about it!